Baby Boy Berns, Brother to Brighton, Rockwell, and Sundance

60 Replies

Dear Swistle, Please help!

I am due with my fourth boy in just two weeks, and we still haven’t found a name that we completely love. Our last name is Berns, spelled differently. Our current boys’ names are Brighton, Rockwell, and Sundance. All three of these names are names that we thought of before each of my respective pregnancies with the older boys, and loved them so much that we just knew that they would be our next boy’s name. We haven’t had a similar name or feeling about this one. We’ve gone around and around, and now we’re really running out of time. We tend to like nature names, Western/cowboy names, and surnames as first names. Also, our first three boys coincidentally ended up with names that have 8 letters, so I would love to continue that tie, if we can. Popularity is also very important to us – we tend to like very uncommon names, preferably out of the top 1000. I would also prefer to not repeat sibling initials (no B, R, or S names). The only name we both like is Jasper. However, I don’t know that that fits, stylistically, with our other boys’ names. It’s a lot more popular than our other names, as well. It also doesn’t have eight letters, which isn’t essential, but I do think it would help me feel like a name was *the one*. There’s also the Twilight association, which My husband really feels like Jasper is the name, and I like it, but I remain unconvinced. Also, we both like Lachlan, but feel like it sounds too similar to Rockwell. Names that I love that my husband has turned down: – Riggins – Finnegan – Sullivan – Calloway – Ledger – Hartford – Woodward We would love your help, if you’re able! I really think that I’m going to have this baby early, and am panicking on what we are going to name him.

Thank you!

 

If I had access and consent to tamper benevolently with your mind, I would start by removing the feeling that the fourth boy’s name ought to have eight letters—even though I would have felt the same as you about it at this stage of pregnancy/naming. I remember learning in Psych 101 that the human brain can easily count…was it seven items, or was it five? Anyway, if we see a little group of, say, candies, and the group is a certain number of items or less, we can count them without counting them: we can just SEE that it is five pieces of candy, without going one-two-three-four-five. If it is MORE than five (seven?), we can’t: we have to count, or else visually separate it into groups of five or fewer (for example, I am verifying eight letters by splitting each name into two groups of four letters).

Even if your first three children’s names all had only five letters, I doubt anyone would notice (or consider it significant); with eight letters, we are almost incapable of noticing. When I briefly wondered if Twilight would be a good name possibility, I had to sit there counting the letters—and I had to do it twice to be sure.

I see the list of candidates you’ve suggested and your husband has shot down, and don’t see a parallel list of names he’s suggested and you’ve shot down. This could easily be narrative choice (if I were you, I would not want the group to latch onto one of my husband’s suggestions that I didn’t like), but we have had so many experiences here of husbands who slip into the lazy “You bring names to me, and I will give my ruling on each one” mode (or, even worse: “I have decided on a favorite name, and now it is your job to find me a name I like better than my favorite or else we have to use my favorite”), that I want to make sure that’s not the case here. This is a difficult and complicated task you have set yourselves, and you should both be putting in effort to complete it.

The trouble with the task of looking for names outside the Top 1000 is that this likely means you don’t want any of the names in the baby-name books most of us have stacked on our desks. Let me start by reminding everyone How To Find Baby Name Data Outside the Top 1000. My plan is to pull open the list for 2022, scroll wayyyyy to the bottom, and see what catches my eye.

I see what you mean about the similarity of Lachlan and Rockwell, but my own opinion is that the sound is not close enough to be a problem, especially in a sibling group of four or more.

For me, the Twilight association of Jasper has faded completely; I no longer think of it at all. But the name Jasper was #130 in 2022, and that does seem much too popular for this sibling group.

The name I would like your husband to reconsider is Calloway. It meets all the preferences AND has the available nickname Cal. Calloway Berns; Brighton, Rockwell, Sundance, and Calloway.

More options to consider:

Barnaby
Broderick (probably too close to Brighton/Rockwell but I can’t make myself delete it)
Callahan
Canyon
Casper
Channing
Clifford
Connery
Conway
Cormac
Crawford
Crockett (probably too close to Rockwell but I can’t make myself delete it)
Crosby
Cypress
Decker
Fielding
Gibson
Granger
Harrison
Haven
Holland
Hollis
Huxley
Langston
Malone
Merritt
Mordecai
Morrison
Nicholson
Noble
Oakland
Percival
Ranger
Ridley
Robinson
Roscoe (probably too close to Rockwell)
Shepherd
Sherwood
Slater
Stellan
Thompson
Truman
Warner
Winslow
Zealand

Baby Girl Jenny, Sister to Ryan

46 Replies

Hello Swistle!

When naming my first, your way of thinking about baby naming was so helpful! Yet here I am with baby girl #2 due in April, and I’m totally stuck.

Our last name is Jenny. It’s Swiss. So that’s cool. It’s also impossibly hard to name for.

For our first, we went with Ryan. We loved how Ryan balanced the femininity of our last name and was on the more unique side of girls’ names without being too obscure. My family heritage is Irish, so I liked that connection too.

For this next one, we have a few challenges:

1. We want something that fits with Ryan, so we can’t go too feminine, which wouldn’t work great with Jenny anyway. But I do worry about another “unisex” name. Will people think they’re both boys? They’d figure it out, but still, it feels like it’d be too much of the same.

2. We aren’t actually that adventurous with names; even though Ryan is less popular for girls (like in the 400s?), it’s still a very familiar name.

3. Both my husband and I have names that start with “Al” so A names are vetoed. Also avoid -y ending sounds if possible, to avoid a sing-song name (Jenny as a last name is silly enough).

Names I like (he doesn’t love):
– Margot (husband thinks it’s an old lady name)
– Mara
– Emory (nn Emmie)
– Noa

Names he likes (I don’t love):
– Laila
– Maya
– Emma (feels too popular for me)
– Tatum

No names are vetoed just yet. But we just aren’t on the same page! Is there any middle ground between our two styles? Perhaps neutral girl names that fall slightly more feminine?

I appreciate your help!

 

I had two immediate reactions: first “Oh, Jenny is a DARLING surname!!” followed two seconds later by “Oh I see what you mean.” It’s charming and challenging. I don’t think there’s any need to balance the femininity of it (she says, far too late to be of any use): I’m trying and failing to imagine someone with the surname James or Henry saying they had to give their sons feminine names to balance the masculinity of the surname.

I think if you go with another unisex-leaning-heavily-boy name for a second daughter, that yes, some people will assume at first they’re both boys. But if you go for a a name that is NOT unisex-leaning-heavily-boy, then people will be CERTAIN that only Ryan is a boy, and in my opinion that would be much worse. If you have, say, Ryan and Elliott, people may first guess boys, but will quickly and easily understand that you liked unisex/boyish names for girls; if you have, say, Ryan and Margot, people are not going to understand what happened with the naming style. Which is fine! They don’t have to understand! there’s no rule about coordinating names! and, as you say, they WILL figure it out! Don’t choose a name you don’t like just to make things coordinate! But if my name were Ryan in this situation, I would prefer the “my sister and I both have unisex/boyish names” scenario to the “people keep thinking I’m a boy but they never think that about my sister” scenario.

And so from your lists, my favorites are Emory, Noa, Tatum. Emory is unisex leaning girl, but still makes sense to me with Ryan; the spelling Noa leans heavily girl but the familiarity/popularity of Noah helps it seem more boy; Tatum is roughly evenly split in usage. I would absolutely not choose Emma here: not only has it been in the Top Three Girl Names in the U.S. for over two decades now according to the Social Security Administration, it’s used exclusively for girls. Margot, Mara, Laila, and Maya—also used exclusively for girls.

Let’s see if we can find more options to consider. Normally with a surname that seems like a first name, I might steer away from names that seemed like surnames; in this particular case, I doubt there is even the smallest chance of avoiding that particular confusion no matter WHAT first name we choose (even Jennifer Jenny would be unclear), so I am not even going to bother trying; also, many unisex names are surname names, including Ryan, so I’m just going to lean into it.

I used Elliott as my example name, and that’s one of my top suggestions. It’s unisex leaning boy, but familiar for girls, as Ryan is. And I think it’s fun to say with your surname. Elliott Jenny; Ryan and Elliott.

Callan. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but I have personally encountered a little girl with that name and it seemed perfectly appropriate on her. Nicknames Callie and Cal if she wants either of them: Callie to go more feminine; Cal to really lean into the cool. Callan Jenny; Ryan and Callan.

Ellis. Unisex leaning boy, but with the familiar El- of many girl names, and Ellie as an available nickname. Ellis Jenny; Ryan and Ellis.

Kellen. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but with Ellen right in there it doesn’t seem surprising as a girl name. Kellen Jenny; Ryan and Kellen.

Morgan. Unisex leaning girl, but I recently encountered a little boy with the name. A little bit similar to Margot and Mara and Emory. Morgan Jenny; Ryan and Morgan.

Teagan. Unisex leaning girl, but I’m drawn to this -gan ending and I think it’s cute with the surname. The G also makes it less of a repeated ending with Ryan: it turns it into -yan and -gan instead of both -an. Teagan Jenny; Ryan and Teagan.

Logan. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but not so heavily as to make it surprising on a girl. Logan Jenny; Ryan and Logan.

Beckett. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but with Becky and Bex and even Etta as available nicknames. Fun to say with the surname. Beckett Jenny; Ryan and Beckett.

Campbell. Evenly split in usage. Cammie and Cam and even Bella as available nicknames. Campbell Jenny; Ryan and Campbell.

Cameron. Fairly evenly split when considering all spellings, but this spelling leans pretty heavily boy. Cammie and Cam and even Ronnie as available nicknames. Cameron Jenny; Ryan and Cameron.

Gracen. This spelling is unusual and fairly evenly split in usage; however, the much more common Grayson/Greyson are used almost exclusively for boys. Gracen Jenny; Ryan and Gracen.

Hollis. Unisex leaning boy, but with the available nickname Holly. Hollis Jenny; Ryan and Hollis.

Keaton. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but I feel like Diane Keaton gives it a familiar feminine sound. Also, my mom has a childhood friend who goes by Keatsie, which is adorable and fun to say. Keaton Jenny; Ryan and Keaton.

Miller. Unisex leaning boy, but with the available nickname Millie/Milly. Miller Jenny; Ryan and Miller.

Sawyer. Unisex leaning boy. Sawyer Jenny; Ryan and Sawyer.

Spencer. Unisex leaning boy. Spencer Jenny; Ryan and Spencer.

Mason. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but my kids went to school with a girl Mason so it feels normal to me. Available nicknames May and Macy and Maisy. Mason Jenny; Ryan and Mason.

Parker. Unisex leaning boy, but familiar for girls. Parker Jenny; Ryan and Parker.

Baby Boy or Girl M@njg@fic, Sibling to Cecilia, Vera, and Helena

38 Replies

Hi Swistle,

I first wrote to you in 2018 when my husband I were expecting twin girls. I loved reading your advice and all the suggestions from your readers. We ended up naming them Vera and Helena. We also have a older daughter named Cecilia. We are now expecting baby #4 in early 2024! If the baby is a boy, we are almost 100 percent certain that his name will be Leo. The problem we are having is that we have almost no ideas for a girl name. When I think of my daughters names all that comes to mind is Cecilia Vera and Helena. I genuinely can’t picture a name for another little girl to add to our family.

Our last name is M@njg@fic (Main-ga-fitch) and we like names that are pronounceable in my husbands native Bosnian, but are more pan European and clearly familiar in America as well. I prefer names that are a little longer and romantic, while my husband prefers names that are shorter and easier to pronounce. We want her name to end in an A. I also love that the second letter is E in all three girls names so far, and Leo would fit that pattern as well. The second letter is not a deal breaker though. If we loved a name that second letter wasn’t E, we wouldn’t hesitate to use it.

So far we have tossed around

Julia (husband likes seems a little simple for me)
Sienna (I like but feels a little too modern compared to our other girls)
Georgiana nn Gigi (I like husband thinks is too long and complicated)
Liliana (husband likes but can’t use due to very close family already used similar name)

Our list is short so far and we really just feel out of ideas. Im sorry I don’t have a longer list to work with! Any suggestions for this baby that feels like we will never find a name for?

All the best,
T&D

 

Cecilia, Vera, Helena, and:

Ada
Alma
Althea
Annika
Audra
Belinda
Bettina
Bianca
Claudia
Estella
Etta
Eva
Flora
Frieda
Gemma
Geneva
Georgia
Gianna
Gloria
Greta
Isla
Louisa
Matilda
Nadia
Rosa
Stella
Sylvia
Thea
Zola

I have some strong favorites on this list, but when I started listing them it seemed like too many favorites to call strong favorites. If it’s half the list, is it helpful? Well, my favorites are Ada, Belinda, Bettina, Bianca, Flora, Frieda, Louisa, Nadia, Rosa, Stella, Sylvia, and Thea. I like the B names so much, I hesitate to point out that they would create initials some prefer to avoid.

I suggest modifying the E-as-second-letter preference to be an E-in-first-syllable preference: for examples, Stella and Greta and Thea would then be included.

Baby Boy Myers, Brother to Audrey

39 Replies

Dear Swistle,

We are expecting a boy 11/11. My husband and I have opposite tastes in names, and I’m beginning to feel anxiety that we won’t be able to compromise (I feel there’s only so much compromise you can do for a child’s name).

I enjoy unusual, uncommon names and he prefers timeless, common names. I also prefer nickname-proof names.

We (Nicole & Justin) share a daughter named Audrey, and we frequently hear people call her Aubrey. I would like to avoid name confusion for our son.

Our last name is Myers, and I’m confident we’re using James (family name) as the middle.

The only two names my husband would even consider were Blake and Noah from my list (though he didn’t love either). I don’t like the initials for Blake… My daughter’s favorite is Noah, and I think Noah James is cute, but Noah is so popular… So popular, in fact, my coworker just named his son Noah and announced the name after his birth. I’m not friends with him, but I feel really weird about it because we share a mutual friend.

Names I loved that my husband hates:

Milo
Kade
Rhys
Owen
Grayson
Evan
Cyrus

My husband suggested only family names:
James (now the middle name as a compromise)
John
Jacob
Daniel

I would love to know your take. My husband says a coworker doesn’t matter, only family does. But I’m no longer excited about Noah. I would love to find a name with a similar vibe (soft, two-syllable, not many nicknames, but not too far out there).

Thank you!!
One Anxious Mama

 

I liked “there’s only so much compromise you can do for a child’s name” so much, I put it in the spreadsheet to remind me to do this one for sure. I have three questions, no four questions, to start with:

  1. Which parent’s family surname is being used for the children?
  2. Which side of the family is the name James from?
  3. Does your daughter have any family names, and if so, from which side of the family?
  4. Which parent had more say / which parent compromised more in naming your daughter?

When we’re talking about compromise–and we do need to talk about compromise–I think it is best to start by assembling all the compromises that have already been made. Let’s say, for example, that you are using your husband’s family’s surname for the children. And that James, which has already been put in the middle name position as a compromise by you, is also a family name from your husband’s side. And that your husband hated all the names on your list for your daughter, and you liked the name Audrey well enough from his list. Or let’s say the kids have been given your family surname; and James is your beloved brother’s name and the only reason you didn’t want to use his name is that it’s kind of boring but your husband’s love of the name changed your mind; and let’s say you were the one who put the name Audrey on the list and your husband eventually came around to it, and it’s a family name from your side of the family, and also her middle name matches yours. It’s nice to get a baseline established, before further compromises are made.

Audrey is a timeless name, and fairly common: #67 in 2022, according to the Social Security Administration. Let’s see if we can come up with some names that go well with Audrey, and could conceivably fit both parents’ styles, while not being on either list so far. I think we’re probably looking for Hip Biblical and Less-Common Traditional, maybe some Old Hollywood. For now I won’t avoid names with nicknames, or names that don’t go well with James as a middle name (in case that changes as part of the ongoing compromising):

Abel/Able
Aidric (too close to Audrey?)
Alistair
Calvin
Clark
Conrad
Davis
Desmond
Edmund
Elliot
Everett
Ezra
Franklin
Frederick
Gabriel
George
Gideon
Grant
Harris
Hugo
Ian
Isaac
Joel
Julian
Louis
Malcolm
Nathaniel
Nicholas (he could be named for his mother!)
Nolan
Reid
Russell
Saul
Silas
Simon
Stanley
Timothy
Warren
Wesley
Wilson

My top choice for meeting preferences is Nolan: similar to Noah, but significantly less common, while not being too uncommon (#65 in 2022); soft, two syllables, no real nicknames, not too out-there; traditional (it’s in the Social Security rankings when they begin in 1900) but fresher than some of the usual traditional choices; good with the surname and with the sibling name. Nolan Myers; Nolan James Myers; Audrey and Nolan.

Baby Boy Gates, Brother to Walter

25 Replies

Hello!

I really love your site and name advice! We are in the USA, about to have our second boy child. Our last name rhymes with “Gates” but has a different first letter (not hard to guess haha).

Our first son is named Walter Allen “Gates.” Walter was taken from two great grandfathers and Allen is my husband’s middle name.

We’re preparing for baby boy #2 in January of next year. We love family names and honoring family name traditions. We do hope to have more children in the future.

My side of the family began a tradition of giving the second-born son the middle name “Bennett” (my dad’s middle name). We like Bennett and want to continue the tradition. Some options we like include:

Ezra Bennett [G]ates
Alden Bennett [G]ates
James Bennett [G]ates
OR Jim Bennett (I’ll explain this more)

My husband and I both feel strongly about using a first name that honors my husband’s side too, particularly his grandpa. Now I’ll explain the dilemma. Grandpa’s name is Jimmy, goes by Jim. His name isn’t short for James or anything else—it’s literally just Jimmy/Jim!

Problem. I don’t like Jimmy as a stand alone. At all. Jimmy is out (as nickname it’s fine). We don’t like grandpa’s middle name either.

James isn’t my favorite of all names, but we appreciate it as a timeless classic. But it’s NOT grandpa’s name.

Jim is okay—I like its sound, its manliness—and it’s what grandpa goes by—and grandpa is an amazing man, worth naming after. But Jim isn’t a real full name, is it?

The options are, name our son James Bennett and nickname him Jim in honor.
OR, go all in and name him Jim Bennett [G]ates.

Is it weird to just give him the name “Jim?” Is it insufficient as a given first name? I do like the ring of saying “Jim Bennett.”

On the other hand, is James Bennett the safer option? Would our son rather have James to fall back on one day? BUT, is James really even honoring grandpa, since his name isn’t James?? Only the nickname would be after him.

Or should we just forget it and do one of the other names we like paired with Bennett? I’m torn. Need some advice! Thank you!!

 

It sounds to me as if this is just one of those impossible situations: you would love to honor someone whose name unfortunately does not work for you as an honor name. The choices are: (1) Use the name anyway (i.e., go with Jimmy or Jim) or (2) Don’t use the name (i.e., go with another option from your list). The brain attempts to find a third option, but there is no third option. The two options can then be weighed on a scale: Which do you want more? Which is more important to you?

It is unfortunate that sometimes the people we would MOST love to honor with an honor name are the people who don’t have names we can use. Maybe it’s a name shared by another, problematic family member, or by an ex; maybe it’s a name that’s impossibly terrible with the surname; maybe it’s a name we hate; maybe we run out of children to name before we run out of names we feel a strong need to use; maybe the honor name only works on a girl/boy and we never have a girl/boy. Whatever the reason, this is a familiar situation to many of us: sometimes an honor name just doesn’t work out. Unless it is crucially, crucially important to honor this particular relative over all others, my opinion is that you should let this idea go. There are other ways to honor the people we love.

But if you were saying you LOVED the name Jim, and your only question was could you possibly use it as a given name, I would say sure! It’s not my own style or preference, and I personally wouldn’t want the hassle of a nickname name (“No, actually, it’s just Jen, it’s not short for Jennifer”), but people do it all the time; in fact, there are many parents who deliberately give children nickname names, saying they believe in naming the child what they’ll be called. So that’s what goes on the birth certificate: Charlie or Sam or Addie. And in your case it’s a family name, which makes it considerably easier: some people WILL assume it’s short for James, and then you’ll say “Oh, actually, it’s just Jim: it’s a family name!”

On the other hand, how new is your family’s Bennett tradition? Is there still room to reinterpret it? You could name him Bennett Jimmy or Bennett Jim. And since it sounds as if you’re using your husband’s family surname, this gives a better balance to the name; it’s still heavily weighted to your husband’s side, but it’s better than a first name from a first name on the father’s side, a middle name from a middle name on the mother’s side, and then a surname from the father’s side. But Bennett might be a little much with the surname.

Another option, since you’re planning to have more children, is to save the Jim/Jimmy decision for a future child, when you will not also be trying to use Bennett. If you have freedom of middle name, that gives you room to find a combination that transforms Jim/Jimmy into a completely desirable choice: e.g., maybe when you hear “Jim Ezra” you think “Wait, YES!!! Or maybe there’s another family name that would sound wonderful with Jimmy: you’ll be going through the family tree and you’ll think, “Jimmy _____!! YES!!”

But my own first choice would be to say, “Welp, we really, really wanted to name a child after Grandpa, and it would have been GREAT if we could have—but unfortunately we cannot make Grandpa’s name work for us,” and use another name instead.

 

 

 

Name update:

Swistle,

Thank you (and to all the commenters) for the great name advice! It definitely helped me to re-examine how I felt about our name options! You’ll probably laugh at where I landed after being so conflicted.

Our sweet Jimmy Bennett (G)ates has arrived!

I remembered some advice you gave to others about not restricting yourself so much when it came to names. I let go of whether a name was considered “real” or not. I wasn’t too concerned with balancing my husband’s side with mine—mainly because I have adopted his grandpa completely as my own, and therefore it wasn’t a matter of which side of the family he is on in this case. Grandpa Jim is as precious to me as if he had always been my own. (It’s also just unspoken between my husband and me that I have the last word in name choice. I had to truly be satisfied before the choice was made! Somehow, my opinion of Jimmy slowly changed, and it grew into love hahaha).

Grandpa Jim was so thrilled by the honor name that he was in tears—he was totally surprised. Sharing the news with him is now a dear memory.

We’re loving the name and confident that our little Jim will be happy with his name (and it’s many nn options) as he grows. Older brother Walter also approves. So far baby has been called Jim, Jimmy, Jimbo, Jim Bennett, etc., and it fits him perfectly!

Happy new year from Jim!

Baby Girl, Sister to Samuel/Sammy

50 Replies

Help! We have a baby girl on the way in early November, and I’m getting cold feet about the name we’ve (tentatively) picked.

Middle name will be the same as the famous immigration station island in the NY harbor (my last name), last name will be the same as the narrator of Moby Dick (husband’s last name).

Brother’s name: Samuel (Island) (Narrator). He is usually called Sammy. This baby will be our last because I’m getting my tubes tied, but if we do end up in a miraculous virgin birth situation, future children will have the same middle-last combo.

Top choice: Harriet/Hallie/Hattie. This was my suggestion and would have been Sammy’s name if he’d been a girl. We still like it but now I’m second guessing myself. Is it too weird/unpopular? Will people think a Hallie is named after Halle Berry? Will people think a Harriet is named after Harry Potter? What if you knew the parents were big Harry Potter nerds who now have a fraught relationship with the series because of the author’s transphobia? Samuel now seems like the most perfect name ever uttered — not too popular, not too weird, friendly-sounding, timeless — so how can we ever match that? Or do I just feel that way because Sammy himself is so great? Have I just been driven over the edge by pregnancy hormones? I am a chronic overthinker so this is very possible!

So we’ve kept looking. I would describe my naming style as “long stern maiden aunt full name with fun kicky nickname”. I’m not too concerned with popularity except it prefer it not to be super tied to a particular generation — no super sharp peaks in popularity a la Heather or Brittany. My husband is not as much of a name dork as I am and so would not describe his naming style in any particular way, but we generally have fairly compatible tastes.

Contenders:
Caroline/Cal/Caddie (I prefer Callie as a nickname but it makes him think of the state of California)
Dorothy/Dottie/Dot (family name on both sides but neither of us is sold)
Amelia/Molly (a little too popular, plus Molly is a bit of a stretch as a nickname)
Naomi (bit of a style outlier)
Rosemary/Rosie/Romy (was my top choice for a while but I’ve cooled off — not quite antique enough, I think)

Names I’ve suggested that my husband vetoed:
Mary (“too boring”)
Jane (ditto)
Louisa/Lucy (“too old lady”)
Esther/Essie (ditto)
Felicity (“too weird”)
Josephine/Josie (“it’s just a boy name with a girl ending”(???))

Names my husband has suggested that I’ve vetoed:
Abigail (recent sharp peak)
Audrey (too modern, if I can’t imagine it on a Jane Austen character it’s not for me)

Names we like but have other reasons for avoiding (don’t want to name after living relatives, close cousins with the name, sounds preposterous with the middle name, etc):
Margaret/Maggie
Marianne/May
Evelyn/Evvie
Alice
Rebecca (As a Betsy, the name Becky is my natural enemy)

(In case it helps: if this baby had been a boy they would have been Nathaniel.)

Please either talk me off this cliff and convince me Harriet is a good choice, or help us pick a new name!

(Thank you in advance and please feel free to edit this question as you see fit, since it got extremely long!)

Betsy

 

I am always a little worried that I will say “DON’T WORRY! This is just cold feet!”—and then it will turn out that, no, the letter-writer had genuine doubts, and now they will be writing back in a month with baby name regret.

Still, I will say my initial reaction to this letter is DON’T WORRY! This is just cold feet.

I think Harriet is charming and delightful, and wonderful with the sibling name. While the name Hallie does bring Halle Berry to mind, I would not assume there was any connection—especially with the different spelling, and a nickname not a given name. But also: it’s a very neutral association.

I would not have made any connection at all between Harriet and Harry Potter, though you were 100% correct to include the additional context, because that DOES move me from “I would never have made any connection at all” to “Wait, would I? No, I still think I wouldn’t.” I asked Paul for his reaction, to make sure I wasn’t paving over issues in my overeagerness to have a new baby in the world named Harriet; and he went on for SEVERAL MINUTES explaining why he did not think it was an issue (it involved Venn diagrams), despite the fact that he thinks he WOULD make the jump from Harriet to Harry Potter. So there’s two data points: Swistle and Paul both think this is not an issue.

It’s true the name Harriet is underused: according to the Social Security Administration, only 217 new baby girls were given the name in 2022. But it is FAMILIAR-uncommon: people know the name. They know how to pronounce it. They are not going to say “WHAT did you say? I have never heard that name!” And I suspect many people will be delighted to hear it: the common names are common because a lot of people like them, but it can mean we all get a little overly familiar with hearing them.

It has been…good heavens TWENTY YEARS since I first heard of a new baby named Harriet, and my very first reaction was “HARRIET????”—and about three seconds later, my second reaction was “😍✨😍H✨A✨R✨R✨I✨E✨T😍✨😍!!” And it was the new baby of one of Paul’s co-workers, and she was a spirited and opinionated child, so I kept hearing about this baby/toddler, and every single time it was a fresh delight: “Apparently Harriet is shrieking every time they put the spoon near her mouth, unless it is the BLUE spoon,” Paul would report, and I would think “😍✨😍H✨A✨R✨R✨I✨E✨T😍✨😍!!” I’ve retained that reaction to this very day.

Where was I? Oh, yes: I DO think the name Samuel/Sammy now seems so objectively perfect and unmatchable because of the child himself and your love for him. …Er! Not to say it is NOT a wonderful/friendly/timeless name! It IS! But I think you will come to feel the same way about your second child’s name, and that you should not try to compare apples (names that still seem like names) with oranges (names that are now YOUR CHILD).

If you MUST continue searching, then I wish Margaret wasn’t already off the table, because I think that would be a marvelous option: similar in GIST to Harriet but significantly more common (2,180 new baby girls named Margaret in 2022); excellent nickname options (Daisy, Greta, Margo, Retta, Meg, Maggie, Margie…); wonderful with the sibling name.

Henrietta. Hennie, Hattie, Ettie, Etta, Ria, Hank!

Oh, you might be a PERFECT candidate for one of my own favorites I am always trying to get people to use: Winifred. WINIFRED!! Stern maiden aunt for DAYS! Winnie! Freddie!

Also: Millicent. MILLICENT/MILLIE! Perfection.

Also: Florence. FLORENCE! Who else could be so stern and so lovely at the same time? And I think the actor Florence Pugh has recently given the name a good boost into usability. Nicknames Florrie, Flossie, Flora.

I am also a fan of Philomena. Minnie, Mena, Phil.

Matilda/Tilly/Tildy/Mattie.

LYDIA. Not a…GREAT…Austen character, but the right ERA, and a great NAME! Liddy!

Or Cordelia? Cory, Rory, Delia.

GEORGIA. George, Georgie, Geordy, Gigi, Gia.

Philippa! Pippa! Phil!

Claudia, but I am not sure about a nickname.

Another possible nickname for Caroline is Rory.

But I think 😍✨😍H✨A✨R✨R✨I✨E✨T 😍✨😍. I would use the nickname Hattie, except that I would never actually use it because I would be having so much fun saying the name Harriet. Well, no: I can see myself saying “Sammy and Hattie.”

 

 

 

Name update:

Thank you everyone for helping me fall back in love with our name choice — Harriet joined us on Halloween! I’d still love to see those Venn diagrams though!

Baby Girl Walker, Sister to Eleanor

37 Replies

My husband and I are expecting our second baby girl this January. She will complete our family as we’re both only children and having two children is our max. Our current daughter is “Eleanor Grace” and we love classic, southern names, particularly names with a French origin since my father is French (although French origin in not a requirement by any means, just a bonus).

Husband: Casey Walker

Wife: Emily-Anne Walker (“Emily-Anne” is my full first name and I go by “Emily-Anne” not Emily – however, I’ve always hated having a double name and will never name do that to my child!)

Daughter: Eleanor Grace Walker

Future Daughter:

Leaning towards “Mallory Jane” with “Mallory Joy” a second option because I love the middle name “Joy” but think “Mallory Jane” sounds nicer than “Mallory Joy.” I love how Mallory sounds, but it translates to “bad luck” (literally “ill-omened”) which is not at all ideal…

Other options we are considering:

·Fiona
·Dorothy
·Jane
·Claire
·Abigail
·Juliette
·Audrey
·Clara
·Catherine
·Margot
·Charlotte
·Lillian / Lily
·Penelope
·Leah

Any advice or guidance would be most appreciated – and I will be sure to keep you posted on the finial decision!

Thank you so much!

 

I love the middle name Joy, especially the way it coordinates with the middle name Grace. I will mention reluctantly that with the surname it makes me think of jay-walker, but I feel silly even bringing that up: How often will anyone say the middle name and surname together? And even if they do, a jay-walker is not such a terrible thing! And it’s NOT Jay, it’s Joy! But it is the kind of detail I like to think of and dismiss and be okay with BEFORE I’ve filled out a birth certificate rather than AFTER. Another middle name possibility: Hope.

Similarly, I would want to think ahead of time before using Eleanor and Penelope as sibling names, only because both names can use the nickname Nell. I don’t think that has to be a deal-breaker at all; it’s just something I’d rather consider ahead of time.

I would love to write a paragraph here about how little I think we need to take name-meanings into account—except that I had that same hesitation about the name Mallory back in my baby-naming days. Not so much the meaning as the presence of the Latin root word “mal” right there in the name. I still don’t think it has to matter! If I meet a little Mallory, I will not AT ALL wonder how her parents could have done that to her! I continue to love the name and wish for others to use it! But…the “mal” thing did make a difference in my own willingness to use the name, and so I understand if it does the same to you. …While also feeling inclined to PUSH YOU TO USE IT. It’s such a great and underused name!

Well. Would you want to consider the name Felicity? It’s the opposite of Mallory, meaning-wise, and I love it with the surname. The only thing that bothers me a little is the popularity gap: according to the Social Security Administration, the name Eleanor was #16 in 2022; the name Felicity was #457.

And I think you have so many other great options on your list already. My own favorite with the sibling name and surname is Clara, but I like SO MANY. What does everyone else like best?

 

 

 

Name update:

Thank you all for your comments!!! We ended up naming our second baby girl “Lillian”!! Her full name is Lillian Ruth Walker as Ruth is my mother in law’s middle name. We think Eleanor & Lillian go really well together :) Thank you again for your help!

Baby Naming Issue for an Already-Born Baby: Should She Use a Name Everyone in the Family Loves and She’s Not Sure About?

94 Replies

I have had this open on my desktop for six days already, and it is too time-sensitive for even that amount of procrastination/delay/thinking, so I am not going to wait any longer but am posting it now for the group to take a crack at it.

Dear Swistle,

I wrote to you earlier in the pregnancy, before we knew baby’s sex. I delivered a baby girl 11 days ago. She’s still without a name.

The name we brought to the hospital was Beatrice. It was the only name my husband, three children, and I agreed on. I could tell my husband wasn’t thrilled by its length (he prefers one and two syllable names), but he wasn’t objecting or putting out other suggestions, so Beatrice it was.

The day we went to the hospital, we brought The Baby Name Wizard to look through middle name options. Our teenaged daughter has been very involved in the naming process. She has put more time and effort into finding a name than my husband and I combined. She had put post-it notes with all the middle names we’d discussed in the book to help is out (so sweet!). One note – for the name Phoebe -was longer than the others, saying she knows I already vetoed it (it was my childhood cat’s name, it’s a close friend’s dog’s name, and I immediately think of Phoebe Buffay), but would I reconsider? She had just finished reading a book with a character named Phoebe who was really cool and shared the same interests as my daughter and I (thrift shopping, vintage anything, and reading).

When I came home, she had put post-it notes on every page of the book that mentioned Phoebe so I could easily find them. She’s the most easy-going kid and usually defers to others’ preferences. The fact that she was quietly pushing for the name Phoebe was out of character so we felt we should explore it, especially since she spent hours and hours looking up baby names and making lists.

It turns out all the kids preferred Phoebe, my husband did, too, AND The Baby Name wizard lists all 3 of our older kids’ names as sibling matches for Phoebe (E$mé & 0l1ver and in another section of the book, it has @bel and Phoebe in the same Bible name section).

It seems like Phoebe was meant to be. And yet…

I just don’t know if I can use it. I’ve gotten over the cat and dog thing. And the FRIENDS thing. I think that other famous Phoebes have since helped dilute that association. I’ve gotten over how it sounds a little goofy with our last name (it’s one syllable and begins with a “Bee” sound, like Bean).

But I’m still not sure. Fee-Bee. FEE-BEE. It’s not…pretty. I keep thinking of the FRIENDS episode with Christina Applegate (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LVS2O3ha8f0). It is quirky and has a long history of use, which I like. It has lots of literary references, which is great. And my family loves it, which makes me want to love it.

How do you choose between two names? Thoughts on Phoebe with the sibling set? How much naming power is it reasonable to give up children (teen, tween, and second grader)? If I had more say in choosing the other kids’ makes, should I just give this to my husband/family? (But using a name I’m not sold on for my child seems such a huge ask!). Using either name feels so unnatural and strange. At this point, I think I’ll mourn not using either one of them a bit.

[I have thought about your post on your regular blog several times since reading it. I, too, feel like I make things more complicated or difficult than they need to be. I wish I could just name a baby in utero, or choose a name “just because I like it”, or even just pick between two names right in front of me. I wish I weren’t waffling or stressing and that I was just enjoying my new, sweet baby fully, instead. But if it weren’t this, I’d be fretting about something else, I’m sure].

Thank you for reading,

Michelle

 

 

Name update:

Dear Swistle and Lovely Readers,

Thank you so much for your help in naming our fourth baby. I appreciate all the readers’ comments so much. Immediately comforting were the comments that suggested we temporarily shelf choosing a name to prioritize rest and to just enjoy our baby. We took the advice and it really helped relieve the pressure.

We named our sweet girl Ph0ebe M@ude. M@ude was a name that was on my husband, daughter, and my lists for middle names – independent of each other! – so it was easy to choose.

Reading all the feedback was so helpful, even if it wasn’t in favour of the name Ph0ebe or of letting children have a say in choosing their sibling’s name. Your readers’ different opinions on the matter helped me sort out how I feel. The commenters with daughters named Ph0ebe also helped tremendously. So far, almost everyone has expressed pleasant surprise at hearing her name, just as the parents of Ph0ebes described in their comments.

My husband and children are thrilled. How do I feel?

I love her name and I’m so happy my eldest suggested it! It feels like our baby just *is* a Ph0ebe to me now.

It’s quite an about-face, I know! I’m even surprised by how settled I feel about her name. Besides the comments mentioned above, here are some other things that helped:

– I had to stop holding the name up against all the names that, for various reasons, we couldn’t use (solid Swistle advice from other posts; I just had to actually apply it).

– As several commenters suggested, I thought differently about the crux of the matter. It wasn’t really about whether or not Ph0ebe was my all-time favourite name. It was about whether I was happy to let my family – my husband and eldest, in particular – have their all-time favourite name. It turns out, I was.

– I had to stop constantly repeating “FEEEE-BEEEE” in my head and under my breath. When I stopped focusing primarily on phonetics (and saying them in an unnatural and exaggerated way), I could think about how much I liked other things about the name: the story behind it, how much family loved it, the meaning, the way it looks on paper, that it’s bright and friendly-sounding, how it flows with our other children’s names, how it’s familiar but not overly popular, etc.

– Rereading page 11 of the Baby Name Wizard. There, under the heading “So close, but which one?” it says, “If at the end you genuinely love two names equally, here’s a potential tiebreaker: imagine your kindergartener asking how you chose her name. Is there one name you can spin a particularly compelling tale about? If so, then you’re getting an extra bonus with that name, a dose of personal history and meaning.” Choosing Ph0ebe gave us that bonus.

– Just committing! As some commenters said it would, once the name was settled, the relief at finally having chosen a name was immense.

Some silly/surprising/pleasant findings since making the name official:

– Discovering by chance that in Bert’s “Jolly Holiday” song in the 1964 Mary Poppins movie (one of my kids’ favourite movies when they were younger), he sings the phrase “…Phoebe’s delightful, Maude is disarming…”. Neat!

– Realizing that my eldest daughter and youngest son’s names each have 4 letters and my eldest son and youngest daughter’s names each have 6 letters. A silly detail, but cool to have happened unplanned.

– Some friends addressed cards to “Baby Ph0ebe”, which made my heart skip a beat.

– Just how happy and settled I feel in our choice. I love seeing her name in writing, on government documents, and especially on the cross-stitch my eldest has started making for her baby sister. I love telling people her name and hearing others address her. When people ask where we got the name from, I love telling them the story. Surprisingly, I felt more post-naming angst about some of our kids’ names that I suggested! And maybe that’s because for a type-A over-thinker, like me, who likes to always have a plan, it feels freeing to sometimes let go and to be open to letting life unfold. When I do, things often turn out better than I could have planned them.

Thanks again to all💛