Dear Swistle,

We are expecting our third and final baby, whose gender we will learn when baby is born (the best surprise!). Our surname is Laherty with an F in front. Baby’s sister is Elis with two Ls (pronounced/spelled like the NY island) + Anne (both honor names, she is “sometimes” Elle or Ellie), and brother is Fin with two Ns + James (James is an honor name). We have a strong preference for Irish-inspired names and hope to include at least one honor name.

Our favorite girl names are Maeve, Molly, and Malone. If Maeve or Molly, we’d use Malone as a middle. BUT there’s a famous character named Molly Malone (and an accompanying song), that is not the most flattering. Malone is an honor name and my personal favorite but my husband isn’t sold yet; he finds it an odd girl first name. (What do you think? And, are Mallie and Ellie too similar if those nicknames stick?). If we decide on Malone as a first (and I can convince my husband), we’d want something feminine and short as a middle name. Kate (well, Katherine, but I think I’d shorten for middle) and Beth are both honor names.

So:
Molly Malone
Maeve Malone
Malone Kate
Malone Beth

For boys, we like Dillon, Blake, and Patrick. Middle name Malone. Derrick is also an honor name that we would consider incorporating, though I’m not sold. DMF initials would also honor a family member, but it’s not a dealbreaker.

What do you think?

Interestingly/unexpectedly, I have secondhand experience with a grown woman called Malone. She’s a friend of a friend, and my friend mentions her periodically to me, so I’ve had a chance to experience the name in that way—and I will say that for me, I went from “I never would have considered that name, especially for a girl/woman” to “THAT IS ONE OF THE BEST NAMES EVER, ESPECIALLY FOR A GIRL/WOMAN” in about two repetitions. I now think it’s a TERRIFIC name, and I find it extremely fun to say. I particularly like it for your sibling set, where the other girl has a unisex-used-more-often-for-boys surname name: pairing that with a non-surnamey name used exclusively for girls, such as Maeve or Molly, feels jarring to me. I find I am now hoping you will have a girl, so that you can name her Malone.

I’d note also that Molly could be used as a nickname for Malone: visually it didn’t occur to me, but when I was saying Malone aloud and testing it for nicknames, I tried out the Mal-y sound, which is almost the same as Molly. Ellie and Molly/Mallie is cute, and I don’t worry much about nicknames being too similar—but also, I don’t think they’re too similar for nicknames.

I like both Malone Kate/Katherine (I prefer Katherine) and Malone Beth; I think the only way I’d be able to decide between them would be to think of the potential honorees and which I’d prefer to honor, and/or which side of the family has been honored more often so far with the other children’s names (including surnames).

If your husband never does come around to Malone as a first name (I WEEP AT THE THOUGHT), then my second choice from your options is Maeve. I don’t worry much about nicknames being too similar, but it bothers me that Elis’s option for a more feminine name if she wants one, Ellie, would be so similar to her sister’s given name Molly. And my inclination is to do a hard-avoid of the Molly Malone combination. And Maeve seems more compatible with Elis and Fin. And Maeve Malone is fun to say.

Another option: Sloane. (Though not with Malone.) Somewhat similar in sound to Malone, and nice with the sibling names: Elis, Fin, and Sloane. I like it with Katherine as the middle.

Or if you enjoy some sound repetition, Rowan Malone is pretty fun to say.

Or Teagan? Elis, Fin, and Teagan.

Or Morgan. Elis, Fin, and Morgan.

Or Darby. Elis, Fin, and Darby.

Or Darcy. Elis, Fin, and Darcy. I don’t know if I like the -y ending with the surname. Though we just went through graduation season, and nothing makes me feel comfier about first/last combinations than hearing a whole bunch of them that are Not Quite Right on the drawing board and yet once given are Absolutely Completely Fine and No One Would Ever Think Anything of It.

Let’s see, now the boy names. I like the way Dillon and Derrick would give all three kids a double letter in their names; but that’s not important enough to make the decision, just a fun point in their favor. I think Dillon and Blake are best with Fin, but I feel like Dillon is teetering on the edge of being too similar to Elis: both with the short-I-double-L thing. I am leaning toward Derrick, if you come around to it: it has the snap of Patrick, while feeling a little fresher, and it gives all three kids’ names distinctive sounds. Elis, Fin, and Derrick. Derrick Malone is super. (Derrick with the surname has a repeating sound that some would love and others would prefer to avoid.) I think Blake works well, too: Elis, Fin, and Blake.

I feel a little tepid on Patrick, even though it’s a great name, just because Elis and Fin feel more modern and less common. (Patrick’s usage in the U.S. is currently less common than Fin’s, but the previous generations of Patricks gives the name a more familiar feeling.) I’d lean more toward something like Aidric or Declan or Broderick or Cormac.

Or Camden would be nice. Elis, Fin, and Camden; Ellie, Fin, and Cam.

Or Nolan! I love Nolan for this set. Elis, Fin, and Nolan. Downside: it’s odd with Malone as a middle, and I feel myself getting increasingly invested in Malone being part of the name. But Nolan Derrick is nice.

Or Keegan. Elis, Fin, and Keegan.

Or Keane. Elis, Fin, and Keane. I like how both boys get a one-syllable name—again, not to the point of letting it make the decision, just a point in its favor.

Another one-syllable option: Mack. Fun to say with Malone. Elis, Fin, and Mack.

Or Kieran. Elis, Fin, and Kieran. Or is that a bit challenging to say with the surname? I’ve said it so many times I’ve reduced it to meaningless component sounds and can no longer tell.

Similarly: Rory. A little odd with the surname, maybe?

Maybe Brody would be better. Elis, Fin, and Brody. Brody Malone is very fun to say.

Or Grady. Elis, Fin, and Grady.

I recently encountered a Kellan in real life and the name made a positive impression. Elis, Fin, and Kellan.

And Rowan can go on the boy list, too.

Dear Swistle community,

Thanks for considering my question! I am particularly eager to hear your thoughts as I am a solo mama by choice. Thus I have both all the power and all the responsibility in naming this kiddo (due to arrive early July, sex unknown). I have thought a lot about names for a long time, but have kept my lists private during pregnancy (I didn’t want a name I ultimately loved to be colored by close family’s opinions) and have had a couple names rise to the top. However, I’m feeling a lot of uncertainty committing to my boy name without getting some outside input from some name nerds – I’d love to hear your thoughts!

My last name is the month we are currently in (rhymes with “bay”) [note from Swistle: this email is from last month]. Given the shortness of my last name, I am very partial to a 3 syllable first name (that’s the case for my first name and I’ve liked it). For a girl I’m about 95% set on Josephine. Joseph is a family name and while I don’t want to have a “the third” for a boy, I do like this version as a girl’s name. I also really love that it gives the kiddo a lot of options in both length, style and “girliness” as they grow (Josephine, Josie, Jo, etc.). For middle names I’m considering Marion (a derivation of another family name) and Juniper (just love it, the sound, and the nature connotation).

With all that context here is my real question/conundrum. The boy name I’ve been holding on to all pregnancy is Orion. I like that it is short in letters, but has 3 syllables, I like that it is the constellation I can always find in the sky, and I think that it may be in that sweet spot of not too common, but also not too unique. But this is where I’m not sure –

Concerns:

1) will people hear it constantly as “ryan” leading the kid to have a lifetime of correction people,

2) is it common enough that people will pronounce it correctly (rather than or-ee-on) (I live in New England if that matters).

3) I like the nickname option Ori, however I am not Jewish and don’t want to appropriate

4) I’m not too up on my Greek classics – but the story of the hunter Orion is…not the most positive.

Most likely middle name is Thomas (a family name).

Other boy names on my list:
Finnian or Finnigan

Gideon

Brendan

Callum

Solomon

Theodore

This is my first child. I am unsure if I will have another, so for now just want to go with what works for this kiddo.

Thanks for your thoughts and perspectives on whether Orion will cause problems and whether there are other contenders I should be considering! For what it’s worth I have Irish heritage and am often drawn to that type of name (other than these of course).

Oh! Coincidentally, I have light experience with TWO boys named Orion/O’Ryan (one of each—and it’s interesting to me how two names pronounced the same can have such STRONGLY different style feelings): one was the younger sibling of a child we had some playdates with long ago, and the other was the son of a woman I worked with for awhile. So I can tell you what my own experience was.

First issue: The first time I heard the name Orion/O’Ryan in passing, I did mis-hear the name—not as Ryan, but just in a general not-being-able-to-catch-what-the-name-was kind of way. When I heard the name of the second Orion/O’Ryan, my experience with the first Orion/O’Ryan helped me hear it, and I only wondered if it were Orion or O’Ryan.

Second issue: I’m interested to hear from commenters if anyone would have thought to pronounce it OR-ree-on: I’m so familiar with the pronunciation like the constellation that it took me a second to even understand how it could be pronounced another way. My guess is that this is a non-issue: that even if someone DID once in a while have a little neuron misfire and say OR-ree-on, it wouldn’t be often enough to be annoying.

Third issue: I don’t know enough about this (particularly if it’s a nickname rather than the given name Ori), and am hoping we have commenters who know more.

Fourth issue: For those who need to brush up on Orion mythology, two of his more famous attributes are (1) hunter and (2) rapist. The hunting thing will be highly subjective: some people see hunting as killing things for the cruel fun of it, others see it as participating in nature as God intended, and there’s pretty much every view in between. In Orion’s case, one of the stories of his death is that he was such an avid creature-killer that he had to be stopped by another deity before he killed all the animals on earth—so that doesn’t feel to me as if it falls into the “killing respectfully and gratefully and only when necessary for survival” type of hunting; it’s the “killing living things unnecessarily/wastefully for fun and sport” type of hunting.

The rape story is unfortunate; on the other hand, so many male deities have a story that involves rape. Not that that makes it better, but it’s not something that stands out as particular to Orion—er, not that that makes it better, either.

And there’s one of Orion’s origin stories, which is that he was born because a bunch of male gods peed into a bull hide and buried it. My guess is that most people aren’t familiar with that story, but it’s common to do a mythology unit in school at some point, so there may be an uncomfortable few weeks. Still, speaking for myself, I was very keen on mythology in high school, and I didn’t remember this little tidbit at all. And when I encountered the two O’Ryans/Orions in real life, the ONLY thing I thought of was the constellation.

I wonder if you would like the name Oliver. Three syllables, only one more letter than Orion, and the nickname Ollie. More names that came to mind:

Calvin
Darrien
Declan
Elliot
Everett
Frederick
Nolan
Simon
Sullivan

Update on Baby Girl Power-with-a-B, Sister to Mischa and Angus

Update on Baby Boy Roberts T__________i

Dear Swistle,

We’re expecting our second girl (and final child) this fall, and while our first daughter’s name came easily, we’re struggling a bit with this one. Our last name is pronounced Summers, but spelled differently.

Our first daughter is named June, and her middle name is uncommon and Noweigian and begins with S, which we might keep for this baby too or pick another if the alliteration is too much. In general, we prefer short, solid names, and gravitate somewhat toward girl names that sound a bit on the harder side. We don’t like overly popular or biblical names, and want to avoid names that end in “s”, since our last name begins with it and tends to get jumbled (as in Frances Summers, Agnes Summers, etc). We definitely like some more old school (but still fairly short) and even feminine names, but also want to make sure we find a name that stands up next to June–she has a big, strong-willed personality, so a meeker sounding name for this girl is something we want to be careful of.

Are there any names that we might be overlooking? Scandinvian, short, or strong in nature? Something from far out in left field?

Contenders we both agree on:

Rudy/Rudi
Sybil (nickname Billie)
Mari (we can’t decide on a full name, or if we even would need one)
Violet
Lou (w alsoe can’t think of a full name for Lou–we don’t like Louise or Louisa or Lucinda–and we just like Lou period)
*Hazel (this was initially our top contender, but it looks to be soaring in popularity–it was #33 in the SS database for 2019–so we won’t be considering it further)

Names I like but husband is lukewarm on or has vetoed:
Ida
Frida (husband is a hard no on this)
Astrid
Greta
Uma

Names my husband likes but I’m lukewarm on:
Josephine (Josie/Jo)
May

Thanks for your help, Swistle!

Especially with short names, I think I would avoid choosing another with the same vowel sound as June: June and Lou, June and Rudy, June and Uma. And my own personal preference would be to choose a name with a similar usage: i.e., another name used predominately for girls, rather than a unisex name or one used more often for boys. (If you like the repeating vowel sound, I suggest Ruby instead of Rudy.) And Violet’s popularity is now in range of Hazel’s, so I’d cross that off. I like Greta and Ida a lot, if you can bring your husband around to either of them. Both of them have a Little Sister feel to me, but not at all in a meek way, more in a Force to Be Reckoned With kind of way, and I think both of them are great with your surname.

Is Mari pronounced like Mary? Actually, whether or not it is: if you want stealth shock value, I’d go with Mary. It feels at first glance as if it’s an extremely popular name because it was so common in previous generations, but on a brand-new baby it’s a fresh slap.

I enjoy the pairing of June and May for the sheer fun of it—but it bothers me that June is a summer month and May is not. August would be better, but in the U.S. the name August is used mostly for boys. Augusta would be fun, but fails to meet most of the preferences, and also feels like a compromise, since it’s not Junia/Augusta or June/August. Julia meets the preferences better, but feels like even more of a compromise: I don’t even connect Julia with July. But July feels too rare to go with June. Sunny would be apt, but cute/light to an extreme I’d want to avoid. Hm.

My first suggestion is Rose. Its familiarity as a middle name can cause the eye to skip right past it in the name book, but it is still relatively unusual as a first name, and I think it’s splendid with June: both one-syllable names with four letters, but with very different vowel and consonant sounds. June and Rose. Whether the repeating s-as-z sound with the surname is pleasing or not will be a subjective matter.

Ivy would be nice. Ivy Summers; June and Ivy. But according to the Social Security Administration, the name Ivy was #58 in 2020, so that might be more common than you’d like.

Oh! Eve! It feels common because it’s such a familiar name (and, granted, I’d have to say a large part of that familiarity comes from it being a biblical name), but it was #471 in 2020! Eve Summers is terrific. June and Eve. Actually never mind.

Maeve, maybe: like May but with a second strong consonant. Maeve Summers; June and Maeve.

Ada would be nice. Similar popularity to June, and a nice strong name with a STEM feel. Ada Summers; June and Ada.

Instead of Rudy, perhaps Romy? Romy Summers; June and Romy.

For some reason, that brought Margo to mind. Margo Summers; June and Margo.

I know I said above that I’d want to avoid repeating the vowel sound of June, and I know it’s a biblical name—but Ruth. I still don’t entirely like the repetition, but for a strong name like Ruth I would be willing to consider making an exception. Ruth Summers; June and Ruth.

Maybe Britt. Britt Summers; June and Britt. Again, I get little-sister-but-not-at-all-in-a-meek-way vibes: a Britt would be a foot shorter and yet absolutely standing her ground.

Or Claire. I like that. Claire Summers; June and Claire.

Or Harriet, if you’re willing to have more syllables. Harriet Summers; June and Harriet. The nickname Etta feels similar to Greta.

Update (and photo) on Baby Boy Menegon, Brother to Hazel and Frederick

Hello

I am so excited to be able to email you a baby naming question! I have been reading your blog for years. After being together for 12 years, and talking about baby names almost that whole time, my partner and I are expecting our first baby in early October.

I am Emily and my partner is Scott. Baby will have last name W00d. We are not finding out the sex until birth.

We’ve found the surname can be tricky to match names with and we’re definitely after a minimum 2 syllable name to go with it. We’ve got a few names for each sex on the shortlist but we’re not entirely sold and would like some more top contenders for firsts and middles to choose from after giving birth. We have been poring over lists and have not come across a new name to add since before I was pregnant.

Our style seems to be Grandpa/Grandma names with our girl names leaning more eclectic.

Our current short list for girls is:

– Norah
– Veda (Vay-DUH). I know this spelling will likely be mispronounced but it’s just how I have always seen it in my head. I am worried that if we were lucky enough to have a second baby that our other girl names would clash with this.
– Violet, we have loved this forever but it now feels a bit overused, and not so fresh to us any more. Could be a middle name.

Middle name contenders:
– June, My late Nan’s name.
– Primrose, my partner absolutely adores this as a first name. It’s a bit too out there for me and I don’t like to be nickname Rose/Rosie nor the combination with the surname.

Names we have like the sound of but not quite enough to use are Luna, Lola and Delilah. Partner loves Layla and Summer but I’m not keen on them.

We are steering away from any names starting with an El/Ella sound due to a niece’s name. Otherwise I would have had Eleanor and Luella on the list too.

Our current short list for boys is:
– Calvin
– Walter. Love the WW sound but worried about the nickname Wally- Wally W00d?!
– Marshall, this may also be a middle name contender.

The only other middle name in contention at the moment is Scott for my partner. He also has his Dad’s first name as his middle name.

Names that I love that my partner has vetoed:
– Otis
– Casper
– Felix
– Arthur
– Theodore ( as well as any name that leads to nickname Ted)
– Angus

I’d so appreciate if you’re able to answer my question. Thank you :)

Emily

For girls, I think pronouncing Veda vay-DUH would be an ongoing permanent hassle (I am not even sure I quite know how to pronounce it that way—it’s like trying to pronounce Norah nor-RAH) [edit for clarification: it’s the emphasis on the second syllable that’s the issue here, not the vay- or the -duh], and it sounds like you are a little tired of Violet and also Violet W00d is fairly noun-y, so it seems like Norah is the winner from that list. Then it’s a matter of choosing the middle name, which is a delightful task because everything sounds good. Norah Violet! Norah June! Norah Primrose!

If I were you, I might want to save June for a possible future first name (I know you are looking for more syllables, but I think June W00d works very nicely, and Norah and June is a lovely sister pairing), and so I would choose between Violet and Primrose. Except, hm, I am very keen on using honor names, and so if you KNOW you won’t use June as a future first name, then I would use Norah June now. Particularly if the child’s surname is your partner’s family’s name, it’s nice to get in a name from your family as well. Another option is to use as a middle name whichever parent’s family surname is not being used as the baby’s surname.

For boys, we have a similar situation: Walter feels like it’s out (Wally W00d immediately snaps into place as A Name I Would Not Want for Myself), and it feels like you’re less enthusiastic about Marshall, so it seems like Calvin is the winner from that list. Then it’s the fun of choosing a middle name. I am disinclined toward using your partner’s first name as the middle name if you’re already using your partner’s family name as the surname. I like Calvin Walter as a way to get the name Walter without the Wally W00d issue. I like Calvin Marshall, too. And just as we considered your partner’s adored Primrose as a middle name candidate, the names on his veto list are good contenders as middle names for Calvin. Calvin Casper! Calvin Felix! Calvin Theodore! Etc.

I’d also suggest looking for middle names from your side of the family, again to balance the use of your partner’s surname. (If I am mis-guessing that you’re using his surname for the baby, and I might very well be since you’re looking for multi-syllable names even though your partner’s first name is one syllable, let me know and I will re-write the post to adjust for that.)

One more thing. You mention you’re finding the surname W00d difficult to work with. I want to make sure you have considered the possibility of using the other parent’s surname for the baby. It seems like such an obvious thing to consider, but many parents never really think of it as an option, even when the chosen surname is ruling out many of their favorite first names.