Baby Boy _______ Banks Stone

15 Replies

Hi, I’m 28 weeks pregnant with our 2nd son and we have hit a wall when it comes to his first name. Here are the details:

Middle Name must be: Banks (family name)
Last name: Stone
Older brother’s name: Elliott Zephyr
Husband’s name: Spencer David
Our girl name that may be used later: Vivienne Jane

I am typically drawn to traditional, classic, American names. So far I like Pierson, Harrison, Colson, Colin.

My criteria has been:

1. A name that is obviously a name, not a made up name
2. Not too hard to spell or pronounce
3. Not extremely common/trendy. Being a Jessica I had to deal with using my last initial all the time because I was 1 of a million Jessica’s.
4. Goes well with Stone. Names like River, Cole, Brooks don’t pair well when you add Stone after.
5. 2+ syllables. Longer names seem to go better with Stone in my opinion.
6. Husband doesn’t like the double S (first name and last name starting with S)

 

We don’t need to worry much about repeating your experience as a Jessica: even the very most popular current baby names are nowhere near as common as the most popular names were when today’s parents were in school. The name Jessica was in the Top Ten from 1976 through 2000, which is so many years of Top Ten Jessicas. In 1987, according to the Social Security Administration, Jessica was the most popular girl name and was given to approximately 3% of all new baby girls in the United States; in 2021, Olivia was the most popular girl name and was given to approximately 1% of all new baby girls: for every three Jessicas you encountered in school, there’s only one Olivia.

From your list, my favorite is Harrison. Harrison Banks Stone; Harrison Stone; Elliott and Harrison.

Alistair Banks Stone; Alistair Stone; Elliott and Alistair
Anderson Banks Stone; Anderson Stone; Elliott and Anderson
Barnaby Banks Stone; Barnaby Stone; Elliott and Barnaby
Beckett Banks Stone; Beckett Stone; Elliott and Beckett (repeats -tt)
Broderick Banks Stone; Broderick Stone; Elliott and Broderick
Calvin Banks Stone; Calvin Stone; Elliott and Calvin
Finian Banks Stone; Finian Stone; Elliott and Finian
Frederick Banks Stone; Frederick Stone; Elliott and Frederick
Gabriel Banks Stone; Gabriel Stone; Elliott and Gabriel
Gideon Banks Stone; Gideon Stone; Elliott and Gideon
Henry Banks Stone; Henry Stone; Elliott and Henry
Lincoln Banks Stone; Lincoln Stone; Elliott and Lincoln
Milo Banks Stone; Milo Stone; Elliott and Milo
Nolan Banks Stone; Nolan Stone; Elliott and Nolan
Quentin Banks Stone; Quentin Stone; Elliott and Quentin
Thatcher Banks Stone; Thatcher Stone; Elliott and Thatcher
Wesley Banks Stone; Wesley Stone; Elliott and Wesley
Wilson Banks Stone; Wilson Stone; Elliott and Wilson

 

Calvin, Finian, and Gideon are a little iffy if there might be a future sister Vivienne. Henry may be too popular: I’m in a little pocket of what is apparently a No-Henry Zone, so it continues to feel classic-but-not-overused to me.

Baby Girl ________ Ellen Hour

33 Replies

Dear Swistle,

My husband and I are expecting our first child, a baby girl, in March. We are completely stumped when it comes to her first name, but we know that her middle name will be Ellen. My middle name is Ellen and I am the 5th generation woman on my mother’s side to have this middle name. In addition to wanting to carry on the tradition, we really like the name, too, so it doesn’t feel like a burden. Our last name is pronounced “hour” like a time of the day, but begins with the letter A.

Requirements for her name:
1. Must not be popular/trendy or the name of a friend’s baby
2. Must sound good with Ellen
3. Should also sound good with our surname, though I haven’t found our surname to be much of an issue with any name we like.

Names we like but have ruled out for the above reasons: Violet and Iris (too popular); Olive, Margot, Ruby, and Esme (have friends who have used these names); Eloise, Lilah, and Lola (sound strange next to Ellen).

Our favorite name for our baby is Mabel, but we can’t decide if that sounds weird next to Ellen (two “el”s in a row). Other options for our baby are Poppy, Clementine, June, Opal, and Florence.

You can see we have a preference for old fashioned names that are not popular, but are also not “weird,” but we aren’t afraid to embrace a quirky name. If our baby were a boy, he would probably be named Archie.

Also relevant, the names of the “Ellens” in our family all end in a ‘y’ or ‘ie’, which I think makes me question the names on our list. Only Poppy fits with that pattern. Mallory Ellen (me), Kimberly Ellen (my mother), Dixie Ellen (my grandmother), Gertie Ellen (great grandmother), and Lucy Ellen (great-great grandmother).

Please help us name our sweet baby!
Warmly,
Mallory

 

I think when you’re already working with one important requirement (this nice middle name tradition), it’s better not to accidentally add a second requirement (e.g., -ie/-y endings)—especially if you are hoping the next generation will continue to feel it’s a fun tradition and not a burden. If your favorite first name happens to end in -ie/-y, I wouldn’t rule it out—but if I were you, and I ended up with two finalists, and one of them ended in -ie/-y and the other one didn’t, I would be swayed toward the one that didn’t.

I have said “Mabel Ellen” roughly one million times and can’t decide if it’s totally fine, or if it’s just a little odd but basically fine. Either way I think it’s fine. Do you think you’re a family that will say “Mabel Ellen” pretty often? If so, then you may want to test it out a bit: “Mabel Ellen, I told you to clean your room!,” “Mabel Ellen, are these your socks on the kitchen floor?,” etc., just to see if you like the feel of it. I found I was in favor: the little bounce of the “bel/ellen” reminded me of other names I enjoy saying, such as Belinda. But I had Paul test it, and he said for him he found it just a little uncomfortable to work his mouth around it.

Speaking of which: I find Opal Ellen and Opal Hour both a little uncomfortable to work my mouth around. I would think “Mabel Ellen” and “Opal Ellen” would be almost exactly the same (the b/p are nearly the same, the e/a are nearly the same), and yet the first one feels nice in my mouth and the second one doesn’t. I suspect this will vary considerably from person to person, with some having the same experience as me, and some having the opposite experience, and some not liking either one, and some having no idea what any of us are talking about.

Trying out Poppy with your surname, something about the sound of it was reminding me of something else, which turned out to be “Happy Hour.” Not a deal-breaker, but just the sort of thing I like to have thought about BEFORE the baby is named.

The name that leaps out to me (because it’s on my own list) is Florence. I am so ready for that name. Florence Hour—does it make the word “sour,” accidentally? If it does, do we mind, or would we just make sure to put a teensy little pause in there: “Florence. Hour is here for her 9:45 appointment.”

Let’s look for some more candidates! You’ve got a nice wide range there from Poppy to Florence, so this list will aim for similar width:

Azalea; Azalea Ellen; Azalea Hour
Belinda; Belinda Ellen; Belinda Hour
Bianca; Bianca Ellen; Bianca Hour
Clarissa; Clarissa Ellen; Clarissa Hour
Claudia; Claudia Ellen; Claudia Hour
Cordelia; Cordelia Ellen; Cordelia Hour
Felicity; Felicity Ellen; Felicity Hour
Genevieve; Genevieve Ellen; Genevieve Hour
Imogen; Imogen Ellen; Imogen Hour
Louisa; Louisa Ellen; Louisa Hour
Magnolia; Magnolia Ellen; Magnolia Hour
Marigold; Marigold Ellen; Marigold Hour
Maisie; Maisie Ellen; Maisie Hour
Meredith; Meredith Ellen; Meredith Hour
Minerva; Minerva Ellen; Minerva Hour
Nadia; Nadia Ellen; Nadia Hour
Persephone; Persephone Ellen; Persephone Hour
Polly; Polly Ellen; Polly Hour
Sally; Sally Ellen; Sally Hour
Simone; Simone Ellen; Simone Hour
Tilda; Tilda Ellen; Tilda Hour
Veronica; Veronica Ellen; Veronica Hour
Winifred; Winifred Ellen; Winifred Hour

I wanted to suggest Millicent and Harriet and Celeste, but I wasn’t sure about those with Hour: it seems like it makes the word “tower,” though that’s not a NEGATIVE word so maybe that’s fine. And it’s not as if it makes the first name into something else: no one would think they were hearing Harria Tower, for example, the way Liam Mason can turn into Leah Mason; they just might sometimes think the surname was Tower, which would be fine and we would all move on with our lives. (Winifred/Marigold Hour could similarly make the word “dour”—but do people know/use that word often enough for it to spring to mind? I know it, but I read old British mysteries. And I still don’t USE it.)

I prefer initials not to spell things; I mind less if it’s something neutral/innocuous, but I still prefer to avoid it. So with the middle/last initials _EA, I would probably at least want to think ahead of time about first names that made the words PEA, SEA, TEA, YEA. On the other hand, I have an acquaintance whose lifelong nickname Mia came from her initials, so I might be favorably inclined toward initials such as BEA, LEA, MEA.

 

 

 

Name update:

Dear Swistle and readers,

Thank you so much for your input on our baby’s name. She was born on March 18th and we named her Florence Ellen. We decided to wait to meet her to choose her name and she just looked like a little Florence!

Warmly,
Mallory

Is it Ever Appropriate To Express Hurt/Offense Over a Baby Name To the Parents of the Baby?

31 Replies

Hi Swistle!

I’m recently engaged and have been thinking a lot about baby names and more specifically “honor’ names for the middle name spot. My fiance and I agree that the two people/sides of the family we would be honored to honor would be my mom and/or fiance’s father who is divorced from fiance’s mother.

I’ve been thinking a lot about how I know future MIL will be hurt over this. She’s shown a pattern of being hurt over things that I believe are unhealthy for her to be hurt over in the first place but then on top of FEELING hurt she takes it a step further by needing/wanting her son to make her feel better about it rather talking to a friend, or therapist, or her long time partner (i.e. a peer and not her child).

My question is – is it ever appropriate or ok for grandparents to express that they are hurt or offended that their name was not used as an honor name? If not, can you think of any situation where it would be okay to express it?

Also a disclaimer, I understand FEELING hurt (that can’t be helped sometimes) but to actually express that hurt to the new parents feels out of bounds to me, especially if there is a history of enmeshment.

 

Oh, I am so interested in this question, and I am enjoying your careful laying-out of the issue: that is, we don’t need to waste time discussing whether someone might have legitimate reason to feel hurt by a baby’s name, or under what circumstances we might choose to spare them that pain; we are ONLY discussing if there are ANY circumstances in which it would be appropriate for someone to EXPRESS hurt TO THE BABY-NAMERS. A lovely careful filleting.

But here is my question, before we answer: Why do you ask?

That is: how will the answer (which I think we all know is “no,” though it will be fun to see what exceptions we can think of) be of use? Our answer won’t prevent your future mother-in-law from doing whatever it is she’s going to do—and my take-away is that she’s likely to Do Something.

Something about this letter is troubling me, and it may be that I am reading FAR too much into it (sometimes by the time I’ve read and re-read a letter half a dozen times and let it simmer for awhile, I have filled in blanks with inaccurate imagination). But I think it’s that I’m picking up a feeling that you suspect your future husband won’t agree that his mother is out of line, and that he will indulge her; and that if/when that happens you may wish to feel bolstered by the stabilizing opinions of others. It feels as if you’re attempting to do preventative emotional labor: trying to protect him from (and/or coach him through, and/or bolster yourself for) an upcoming conflict you expect him to have with his mother (or that you expect to have with him and his mother), after you get married and get pregnant and have the baby and name the baby. I am wondering if this is not actually a baby-naming question, but more of an engagement question.

It’s not this site’s area of expertise (I wouldn’t just be out my lane, I’d be completely off my highway)—but speaking here just as Auntie Swistle for a minute, I’d say the engagement period is ABSOLUTELY the time to be thinking through all these things: is this what you want? can you tolerate being married to someone who has this sort of dynamic with his mother? can you tolerate decades of dealing with his mother, and also dealing with him dealing with his mother? do you want to do so much work on this? are you going to end up feeling as if you are repeatedly thwacking your head against a wall, and/or feeling as if you’d like to thwack someone else’s head against a wall? and so on. It feels to me (based just on one single, shortish letter, which is likely not a fair or representative sample) as if your potential/future mother-in-law is already taking up a fair amount of mental energy—and that is a valuable thing to note and consider before she becomes your actual/current mother-in-law (and, much more irrevocably, grandmother to your children, children who will have names she may find personally hurtful). An engagement is like a no-obligation free trial period, and it feels to me as if your mind is trying out what it thinks it can expect from this product if you decide to keep it.

It’s common on this site for me to mention that a name is “a package deal”: maybe someone wants a name unusual enough that it is not shared by anyone they’ve ever known, and part of the package deal of that name is that it will require regular spelling/pronunciation/explanation; or maybe someone wants a name that is well-liked and easy to spell and pronounce, and part of the package deal of that name is that their child may sometimes have someone in their classroom with the same name; or maybe someone wants a name that honors someone important to them, and part of the package deal of that name is that it will cause family drama. That sort of thing. The concept is that the name is BUNDLED with its accessories, and can’t be separated from it, and that’s okay—unless it’s NOT okay. And it’s the same with spouses: they’re a package deal. This spouse option you’re considering is packaged with this mother-in-law. Buy, or no?

Well, but that’s not what you asked us.

Let’s turn our minds to what you DID ask, though I’m going to broaden the question a little to allow for more exceptions. Because no, it is never appropriate for a grandparent (or anyone else) to express hurt to the baby-namers that the baby was NOT named after them. (And PROBABLY it is never appropriate for someone to express hurt to the baby-namers that the baby was named after their ex-spouse—though I definitely would expect the person to express that hurt to friends, other relatives, a therapist, etc., as mentioned, because it would be such an understandably hard pill for most people to swallow. And it would perhaps be kind to give the person in question a gentle warning ahead of the birth, so that they would have space/time to process that decision beforehand, rather than having it sprung upon them at the hospital with everyone there, perhaps including their ex, to view their unpleasantly-surprised reaction. Unless of course they are the sort of person who would take that gentle lead-time as an opportunity to vigorously lobby to have the decision changed, in which case on their own head be it, and perhaps have an in-the-know nurse or family member on hand to gently escort them from the hospital room for a little time-out if necessary.)

But a broader and more interesting question is if there are ANY circumstances in which it would be appropriate for ANYONE to express hurt/offense/objections about ANY baby name to the baby-namers. And actually, I can think of one, but it’s a pretty strict one, and I’m not sure it evan falls into the category of reaction we’re considering: if the person knows something that the baby-namers didn’t know, and it’s something serious enough that the person thinks the baby-namers might actually want to consider changing the baby’s name. It seems like this would be pretty rare—but on the other hand, families do keep secrets, and families do try to protect children, and sometimes those children grow up and use honor names they wouldn’t have used if they’d been let in on the secret, and sometimes that’s when other members of the family realize something probably should have been said earlier.

I can’t think of any other situations off the top of my head. Can anyone else think of any?

Names That Are So Similar and Yet So Different

88 Replies

I have been noticing afresh how much difference there can be between two names that are technically very very similar. For example:

Addison and Edison
Addison and Allison
Allison and Ellison

Everly and Beverly

Jane and Jean and Joan and June
Joan and John
Jane and Jade
Jade and Jude

David and Davis

Liam and Leah
Leo and Leah
Mila and Milo
Chloe and Cleo

Alex and Axel

Scarlet and Charlotte

You can imagine that someone who came into this situation without being familiar with any of these names might struggle to understand why one of them was in fashion and another was dated, why one was “for girls” and one was “for boys,” why one was a certain style and the other was a completely different style, why one was twenty times as popular as the other, why someone might love one name and not like a similar name even a little bit.

I’m less interested (though still interested) in the ones that feel like feminine/masculine versions of a name: I feel as if we could readily understand that distinction even if were were suddenly dropped into a set of names we’d never encountered before. I’m more interested in the ones such as Everly/Beverly, where one is modern, surnamey, and in style, and the other is dated (though poised for its next surge) and not currently in style. Or Scarlet/Charlotte, where the sound difference is so small, but the style difference is huge. Or David/Davis, where the former is so familiar the eye can just skip right over it in the name book and most of us know a ton of Davids/Daves, but the latter is fresh and fits well with the current surname style.

I’m interested in situations where a dated/tired name was completely revived by changing a letter, changing a vowel, or changing the ending. Laura to Lauren. Allison to Ellison. Judy to Jude. Jason to Mason and Jace. It’s funny how this feels like something we could easily do ourselves to come up with new fresh options, but as soon as I start looking at names, I see how difficult it is. Cora to Coren? Addison to Ammison, or to Addisey? Avery to Aver? Jackson to Mackson? No.

I don’t have a question per se, but wondered if you too would be interested in discussing this: mentioning Surprisingly Similar Pairs, and/or trying your hand at modifying overly familiar names to make them fresh and new.

Baby Girl, Sister to Eli, Ezra, Emmeline (Emme), Eben, Edith (Edie), and Ethan

68 Replies

Hi Swistle,

Returning poster here! I wrote to you back in 2019 when we were expecting Edie, who is now almost three. Since then we have welcomed our current youngest, Ethan Samuel, and are now just a few weeks away from the expected arrival of our seventh, a little baby girl due in mid-September. And I would love your and your readers’ help in naming her!

Our boys are Eli Michael, Ezra Matthew, Eben Jacob and Ethan Samuel. All go by their given first names, no nicknames, 100% of the time. Our girls are Emmeline Kaye and Edith Annabel, who only go by Emme (pronounced like the Emmy award) and Edie, respectively. All middle names are family names.

This will be our last child and I am still loving the name Eulalie. My husband would prefer Elizabeth or Esther (nicknames Essie). I am a hard no on Elizabeth (too many nicknames I actively dislike), and meh on Esther. Last time, we almost named our girl Eulalie, but husband wanted a “stronger” name in the end. Not sure if this will come up again as we’ve put off figuring out the name until after she is here. (With Ethan, we kept going back and forth between Ethan and Ezekiel for most of the pregnancy and for a day or two after he was born). But I still like to mull over the possibilities as my due date is fast approaching, and to have a short list heading into the hospital.

Anyways, would love to hear your suggestions for this baby’s name. It must start with an E, not have a default nickname that sounds like one of our other kids’ name, and not be anything too modern or religious (Evangeline is out for this reason). So far it’s just Eulalie, Edwina (Winnie, not Eddie!) and possibly Esther, but maybe there is something else out there?? (I don’t like Eliza or Eloise; Elodie is too close to Edie; and a close friend has an Evelyn).

The middle name will be a family name. Either Ada (finally!) or Marina, or some combination of the two.

What do you recommend?

Thank you!!
Anna

 

At this point I feel you must have been through the E section of the baby name book so many times, there is no way I could suggest something you haven’t thought of. Instead, I will think of it as throwing my support behind some of the options you have mentioned and/or have certainly considered. (And I hope that if I accidentally suggest something that is comically close to one of the sibling names, that a commenter will point it out in time for me to quickly erase it and pretend it never happened!)

• Etta. I like that it gives a new sound (no hard-T sounds in the sibling group yet), and that it is nice with Emme and Edie. I don’t like that she alone among her sisters wouldn’t have a longer name to go with her nickname. You could do Etta/Ettie, perhaps—but one of the things I like about the name Etta is that it doesn’t give you a third girl with a long-E ending.

• Esther. I love it, which means nothing if YOU don’t love it, but I have experienced many times the phenomenon of having my opinion of a name vastly improved by other people’s positive reactions to it. And I like that it gives you a new sound (no S sounds in the sibling group yet).

• Estelle. Similar to Esther, yet a completely different vibe. New sound (T, ST). Nickname could be Essie or Ellie, but that’s another long-E nickname; could also be Stella, if it doesn’t have to be an E nickname. I like the way Estelle seems to bridge Emmeline and Edith.

• Eleanor. This name, too, does a good job of bridging Emmeline and Edith. Nicknames include Ellie, Lennie, Linnie, and Nora.

• Elsa. New sound (S). Nickname could be Ellie or Elsie. Downsides: Frozen movie/merchandise is still going pretty strong, as I understand it; third girl nickname with a long-E ending; Ellie visually similar to Eli, though when we are working on a SEVENTH name starting with the same letter I start to relax a LOT of preferences.

• Eva. New sound (V). Nickname could be Evie. Downside: maybe I don’t need to keep mentioning that I would rather not have a third long-E girl nickname, considering you have not mentioned that preference at all! But Edie and Evie are so similar.

• Elspeth. This has got some of the elements of Elizabeth, without lending itself to some of the nicknames you don’t like. I like the nickname Elsie, though you could also go with Ellie.

• Evette. Does that feel like cheating, or is that a legitimate spelling of Yvette?

 

 

 

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

Thank you to you and your lovely readers for all your thoughtful feedback and suggestions regarding a name for our littlest one. Our daughter was born yesterday morning and we decided to go with Eulalie (Eu-LAY-lee). I think she’ll wear it well! I’m not sure if we’ll use a nickname or not. For now we are all just getting used to calling her Eulalie. Her middle name is Marina, after my mom. (We decided to go with just one middle name for her, same as with our other kids. But having more amazing relatives than kids to name is not a bad problem to have!) So that’s her name! Eulalie Marina. I hope she loves it as much as we do!

Thank you again,
Anna