I wonder if the literal use of the suffix -son might be an another interesting baby name option for some families.

Perhaps if the parents like the idea of a Jr., but neither of them particularly want to use Robert: too common, not modern enough. Their son could be Robertson: a family-related honor name, a Jr.-type concept, and an in-style surname name all in one.

Or maybe if the parents are conflicted about a family naming tradition: they’d hate to abandon it, but on the other hand the dad felt it was a headache sharing a name with his dad, and he wants his son to have his own name. Perhaps they won’t have a Thomas Scott Andrews IV, but they can taper it off by calling him Thomason.

This naming idea has an issue we don’t run into when Peter has a son named Peter: using the -son could seem to exclude the other parent. Peterson is Peter’s son but he isn’t ONLY Peter’s, and/or we wouldn’t want to imply that Peter was the only important parent. And yet we’re not going to use Sarahson or Ashleyson, any more than we’re going to use Robertdaughter or Thomasdaughter.

The other issue is that it can only be done once: David can have a David Jr. who can have a David III, but David’s son Davidson is not going to name his own son Davidsonson. That part’s okay with me, though: Davidson could have a Davidson Jr. if he liked, and in fact I like that it’s a way to do a Jr.-like name WITHOUT putting pressure on the next generation to continue it.

Update on Baby Ashleigh-Wertman: Charles, Arthur, or William? and Baby Naming Issue: Using a Student’s Highly Distinctive Name! (same baby discussed in both posts)
Update on Baby Naming Issue: Are Calvin and Alice Too Similar?
Update on Baby Boy Macon-with-a-B, Brother to Abbot!
Update (and photo!) on Baby Boy Holland, Brother to Carter Nicholas!

Kim writes:

I’m writing for help again with a name for our third child (you helped us with our second here), due in July. We have chosen not to find out the gender this time around, but I feel pretty sure we are set on a name for a boy, so I’m mostly looking for help with a girl’s name.

Our last name is Berrisf0rd. Our son is Maxwell Lucas and our daughter is Vivian Josephine, nearly always called Max and Vivi.

For boys names, I like Eli, Miles or Milo, and Leo. Eli is the only one my husband likes, so as of now, that is the choice, possibly with the middle name Thomas.

I tend to like names that were most popular in the 1910s/1920s. Because we use “Vivi” so much as a nickname, I do not want a third name that ends in the “ee” sound as well.

For girls names, our current list is:

Kate – we both like this one, which makes it an obvious contender… BUT. I’m worried it is too popular. I like it as a nickname, however I don’t love Katherine, and Katelyn seems a bit new-ish to me as far as style. Just using Kate as the first name would work I suppose, but it seems choppy to me with any middle names I’ve tried.

Ada – this one is growing on me. My husband likes Ava, but we know a few Avas, plus have a lot of “v” going on with Vivi, so I suggested it as an alternative. It’s also the name of a place my husband vacationed as a child, which is a nice association.

Lila or Lily – I like Lila. My husband likes Lily better, but I still don’t know if I like the pair of ‘ee’ sounds at the end. Do you think I’m worried too much about how the names pair together? We don’t know that we’ll always call her Vivi, when she gets older it may be Vivian or Viv.

Serena – My husband added this one to the list, and I think it’s pretty. It feels long to me though, and I’m not sure how I’d shorten it for a nickname – Seri? Rena?

Brooke – we both like this one quite a bit. But, is it totally out of place style-wise? I do like the alliteration.

Other names I like the style of, but likely wouldn’t use for various reasons, are Nora, Cora, Camila, and Grace.

For a middle name, if it’s possible with the first we end up choosing, I’d like to use Yvonne after my maternal grandmother. Vivi is named after my husband’s grandmother and my paternal grandmother, and Yvonne is the only grandparent that is still living, so I’d like to use the honor name if I can. I’d be open to other suggestions if it doesn’t fit, though.

I’d love to hear any thoughts about our list or any other suggestions we may not have thought of. Thanks!

Kate can also be short for Katrina or Katerina, and that’s the direction I think I’d go: similar to both Kate and Serena. Katrina Berrisf0rd; Maxwell, Vivian, and Katrina; Max, Vivi, and Kate. But do you think you might start calling her Katie, and would that bother you since it’s another -ee ending?

Kate and Ada have a similar sound to me, so I wonder if we might find more names similar to those. Jade and Jada have the right sound, but don’t seem like the right style. Jane would work well, and I love Jane Berrisf0rd so much—simple and stylish. But is it too simple with Vivian? I don’t THINK it is. Maxwell, Vivian, and Jane; Max, Vivi, and Jane. But as with Kate/Katie, there is the possibility of Janie.

Or I think Kay/Kaye would work wonderfully. Kaye Berrisf0rd is lovely, and there’s no way to put an -ie on it. It’s much less common than Kate, and goes well with Vivian in style. Max, Vivi, and Kaye seems stunning to me. The main issue is that it doesn’t have a nickname like the others, but I think that would be okay. If your family is like mine, you may find that you make nicknames by adding rather than subtracting: at my house she’d be called Kaye Marie, Kaye Louise, Kaye-Bay, Kaye-la-la, etc.

I worry too about how names will go together. I try to stop myself from OVER-worrying (as people have pointed out, when we’re adults many people don’t even know our siblings’ names), but on the other hand you and your family will be thinking of them and talking about them as a group all their lives—and a big early chunk of those lives will be spent living in the same house and knowing the same people. To me, Vivi and Lily are too similar for comfort: not only do they have the exact same set of vowel sounds in the same order and with the same emphasis, but both of them have repeating consonants (two V’s for Vivi, two L’s for Lily). This is not to say you shouldn’t use them: if you were writing to say that the two of you loved the name Lily above all others and it was the perfect name in every way except the Vivi/Lily combination, I would be reassuring you that it was not a big deal and shouldn’t stop you. It’s important to me, for example, that Vivi is the nickname and Lily would be the given name: they’re not really Vivi and Lily, but rather Vivian and Lily—possibly to be called Vivi and Lil, or Viv and Lily, or Vivian and LeeLee, or who KNOWS what they’ll go by. So if you decide Lily is The Name, I’d encourage you to go for it.

Lila does make a significant difference in similarity: no more matching vowels. And while Lily Yvonne probably doesn’t work, Lila Yvonne probably does.

If Lila isn’t quite right, there’s also Isla and Twila/Twyla.

I want to suggest another name, but I’ve had very little luck getting others on board with it. It’s Millicent, with the nickname Milly. Vivian and Millicent; Vivi and Milly.

Another option is Matilda, with the nickname Tilly. Vivian and Matilda; Vivi and Tilly.

I like Serena because it matches Vivian in letters and syllables—but I agree with you that then it feels like it also ought to match by having a nickname. Ree would work, or you could see what evolved naturally. I think too that Serena is a name that goes to more like 2.5 syllables with frequent usage: when I’m sounding it out I say it sah-ree-nah, but if I imagine directing a child getting ready for school (“Serena, do you have your lunch? Serena, go back and put on more appropriate shoes. Serena, it’s 5 minutes until the bus, finish your breakfast”) I think it would be more like S’rena.

Or Selina is a similar name but with the natural nickname Lina. Sally might evolve from it, too.

Brooke feels like a style clash to me. I think it would go okay with Max, but not with Max and Vivian.

Ada is my favorite from the list. It seizes me the way Vivian did when you wrote last time: it’s as if it leaps out from the list as the choice I want to be careful not to be too pushy about. Ada Yvonne Berrisf0rd; Max, Vivi, and Ada. As with Kaye, the issue is the lack of nickname; at my house she’d be Adabelle, Ada Marie, Ada Louise, Ada St. Claire, Ada May, Adie-cakes, etc.

Let’s have a poll! The list is a bit long, and it was tricky to decide what to include, but I think it’ll still be helpful. [Sigh: I keep trying to arrange it how I want it, but now “I can’t decide” is alphabetical instead of at the end. OH WELL.]

[yop_poll id=”4″]

A. writes:

We are looking for some help deciding the name of our baby who is due in 2 weeks (although neither of us thinks the baby will actually make it to the due date!) We elected not to find out the sex ahead of time, but it’s just the boy name we need help with. Girl names are pretty easy for us, but boy names are TOUGH. Our last name is Hayes and because it only has 1 syllable, we think the first name should be something with at least 2 syllables for it to flow well. Our other naming “rules” we’ve established are that it cannot be something very popular (top 30 on the SSA list are automatically out! Top 50 is even pushing it because they could easily rise up in the next couple years) or names that sound…plain? (I’m not sure the right adjective to use here). “Plain” names would be something like John, Matthew, Ryan, William, Edward, Peter, etc. We want something a little different, but not too strange either. The middle name will be a family name and we’ve pretty much decided it will be either Jeffrey (my father) or Andrew (my husband’s middle name). We would like something that’s not hard to pronounce by looking at it (though I know EVERY name gets mispronounced sometimes) and not easily made fun of in the schoolyard. (Again, I know this happens to most every name at some point too!) Not really a “rule” for us, but good nickname possibilities are a definite plus. My husband is a big fan of Hebrew sounding names for boys, but not the classics like David or Jacob because of the “plain” factor. I also like those names, but like to branch out a little too. Right now, it seems are top two choices are Gracin (pronounced Grace-in) Jeffrey and Micah with either middle name. My husband also really likes Calvin Andrew, but I’m not completely sold on it. Names that we liked but took off the list (due to popularity) were: Elijah, Lukas, Jayden, Mason, Logan, and Caleb. We like Isaac, but we can’t name our son Isaac Hayes! Names we’ve also considered and are still potentials: Judah, Ryder, Oliver, Isaiah.

This baby will be also be the sibling to our almost 3 year old son, Jesiah Dean. We had Micah Jeffrey or Jeremiah Dean picked out for him, but neither seemed right once he was born. He did seem like a JD, however, so we picked a different J name that we’d liked. I was worried about going with Jesiah with an e instead of Josiah because I’m sure he’ll be correcting people his entire life, but I really did not like the nickname Jo, which I figured he’d almost inevitably end up with at some point. I did, however, like Jess or JD. Funnily enough, if we do shorten his name, we call him Siah more than anything else! So, I guess you never really know with the nickname thing. I would like Jesiah and his brother to have names that sound good together, but aren’t too matchy. I worry that Judah may be too close because of this.

Our problem is that we can come up with a lot of names we like, but it’s hard for us to decide on something we love and want to use for our child for the rest of his life! Please help!!

While Grayson/Gracin is a unisex name, I think the spellings that evoke the name Grace seem better for girls. For a boy, I would suggest using a spelling that evokes the name Grey/Gray, and ideally also the word son: Greyson or Grayson. Something like Graysen or Greysen or Greycin might also work.

With Jesiah, I prefer Micah: Jesiah and Micah both have an ancient/biblical sound, while Gracin/Greyson sounds modern. My only hesitation is the matching -ah ending.

I’d also suggest Ezra. It matches the sound of the ending, but it looks a little different. I love the way the Z-sound repeats in the surname. Ezra Hayes!

Or Ezekiel, with the nickname Zeke. Ezekiel Hayes; Jesiah and Ezekiel; Siah/JD/Jess and Zeke.

Ari would be handsome. Ari Hayes; Jesiah and Ari.

Reuben is a name I heard while pregnant and thought “THAT’S IT!! THAT’S THE NAME!!”—and then tried it with my surname. Dear me, no. It’s great with yours: Reuben Hayes; Jesiah and Reuben.

Or Nathanael. Nathanael Hayes; Jesiah and Nathanael; Siah/JD/Jess and Nate.

Or Phineas Hayes; Jesiah and Phineas; Siah/JD/Jess and Phin/Finn.

I wished I had been bold enough to use Solomon. He’s a great biblical character, and Sol is right up there with Wes on my Favorite Boy Nicknames list. And look how great it is with your surname: Solomon Hayes.

Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl Roach, Sister to Vivian!
Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl Grindelwald, Sister to Jackson!
Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl or Boy, Sibling to Hank and Stella!
Update on Baby Girl Welch!

Justin writes:

Hi! So my name is Justin Danielle Chapman. And I’m a 25 year old mother of two boys, Henry McRae and Beckett Charles. As you can see my name is extremely manly and I want to change it. Since I was a little girl I’ve not liked it…. I have story after story of the issues I’ve had of having the name Justin as a girl. For a season I tried to go by Danielle but it just didn’t fit, and when people just glance at my full name they see Justin Daniel… My husbands name is Barnabas and sadly when we go places and have to sign things people think my name is Barnabas and he is Justin ( which is crazy ). I get things in the mail all the time Mr. Justin. I have to ALWAYS explain my name to people and even spell it to them over the phone cause they just can’t believe that it’s Justin. I get called Justine, Justice, Jessica, etc all the time and don’t like those for me. People have asked me quite often “what were your parents thinking”!
I am very feminine and just want a feminine name…

So my questions are:
Have you ever heard of a girl named Justin?
Should I change it and go through the hassle of it?
And what do I change it to?
My husband and I are big on the meaning of names and so by changing I’m changing the meaning, should I care about that?

Because of our last name I’ve named my boys old English heritage names. I love them. If they had been girls they would have been Ametta, Eliza, or Adelaide calling her Ada ( a-duh ).

I love very unique, more out of the normal names, but do I do something drastic or just simple?

Here is a list of what I’ve been thinking for me:
Jane Emmerson Chapman ( favorite so far ) still staying with a J so that its not to drastic.
But I like-
Windsor
Hollister
Eliza
Faye
Grey
Elle

Your thoughts and advice on names and what to do would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so so much :)

I think for me the most important thing would be to choose a name that could reasonably have been mine. So I might start by talking to your parents if that’s an option, and asking what other names they considered for you, and seeing if any of those feel like they’d fit. Or is there a story behind your name, a story from which additional name options could be harvested?

Without knowing that information, my first suggestion is one you mentioned but not from your list: Justine. It’s a small and simple change, and anyone who saw the old version wouldn’t need an explanation because they’d assume it was a typo. And because it’s the feminine version of the name Justin, you wouldn’t be changing name meanings. The name Justine was in common-but-not-overly-common usage the year you were born, so it won’t cause the startle effect of using a name that’s currently fashionable but wasn’t used at all back then. (For example, the year you were born, the name Justin was used for girls far more often than the names Elle and Emerson were.)

Justina would also be pretty.

But I see you don’t like the name Justine for yourself, so my next choice would be Jane from your list. It’s simple enough, gives you the same initial, and makes for a quick and reasonable explanation: “My parents named me Justin; I’ve changed it to Jane.” I think if you go with something like Windsor, you’re going to get a lot of people reacting very similarly to the way they react to the name Justin—with the added issue of having to explain that it’s a name you chose for yourself. I think people can be a little eye-rolly about self-chosen names that seem too fancy. It seems like there’s a world of difference between “Yeah, my parents named me Windsor” and “I didn’t like my given name, so I changed it to Windsor.”

June would be another good choice. It was fairly unusual the year you were born, but is familiar enough in general, and similar enough to your given name, that I think it would work well.

Or Julia might be my favorite. Julia Chapman.

I also wonder about sort of mashing your first and middle together to get something like Joelle.

Or perhaps we should look for a match from the second half of the name: Kristin, Kerstin, Kierstin, Tina.

The most important thing, though, is that the name feel natural to you. Can you imagine your husband calling you the name? your friends? your family? Picture yourself calling to make an appointment and giving each name; which ones feel most comfortable? Picturing introducing yourself. Picture filling in a family tree, or filling in school forms for your kids, or putting the name on a wedding invitation or a resume. Does it feel like YOU?

It may be that you’ll decide to change it but that you’ll have to wait until the right name presents itself. When you think you have the right name, I’d suggest giving it a nice long trial period before legally changing it and telling everyone to use it. The worst, I think, would be to go through the hassle of changing it and then find that THAT name didn’t work either, and be right back to the list-making. One name change is about the maximum I can imagine asking family and friends to adjust to.

If you want a Windsor/Hollister type of name, I suggest looking in your family tree for good surnames. The explanation, “Oh, it was my grandmother’s maiden name” is much easier than getting into the whole story of the name change.

You could also look in your family tree for first names.

I’d also suggest looking at the Social Security Administration’s baby name site to see what names were being used the year you were born. A name will attract less attention if it seems reasonable for your age.

If meaning is important to you, I suggest looking for a meaning similar to the meaning of Justin (“just, fair”). Those are unfortunately in short supply (and hard to look up, since “fair” can also mean pale-faced/haired), but perhaps a meaning having to do with honor, trust, fidelity, etc., would feel similar enough.

This will be a full post later on, but I want to collect some data as I’m working on it: If you saw the name Meara, how would you think it was pronounced?

I am new to this, but I THINK I have set things up so that you can see new Swistle Baby Names posts in your Facebook news feed, if you like to follow blogs that way:

https://www.facebook.com/SwistleBabyNames

I think that if you follow that link and click the “Like” button, new posts should start showing up on your Facebook page.

Sara writes:

Hello to you Swistle and your wonderful helpers!
We are very much hoping for some name wisdom, as we seem to be stuck. We are expecting our 2nd little girl in June and she will be joining big sister, Adelaide Fiona. (We were really close to naming her Fiona but having the last name, Ryder, Winona Ryder seemed too close. Now we wouldn’t change it for the world, Adelaide is just right for her)
Baby sister coming in June has two potential names and we are struggling to choose. The two names are Juliette & Nicolette. Obviously, only one can be used and we don’t know which. We love and adore Juliette, (especially this spelling but would people pronounce it JU-lee-ette or would they say as Juliet – Jul-jet) if pronounced right, but fear the popularity of the name and my husband is unsure of how irritating it will be for her to say: My name is Juliette with TE at the end.
We also love and adore Nicolette, as it is similar to Juliette but is much less popular. We think it has a very elegant touch to it. Both names are French as her first name will honor my French heritage as Adelaide honors husband’s German roots.
We want a French name but are also worrying about the length of the names. We don’t mind long names but Adelaide has Ada and Addie as occasional nicknames but we don’t see any we like for Nicolette or Juliette. Another thing someone pointed out was that Nicolette made her think of Nicorette. IS this an issue?
After writing all of this out, I worry we haven’t found the name for her at all. Had she been a boy her name would’ve been Dashiell or Lucian (we really wanted to use Mason, had it not been so popular).
Right now, as you see, we are struggling. We want to find her name fast. Should it be Nicolette or Juliette or a third? We hope you can help us out!

A couple of years ago at kindergarten drop-off, one of my twins had a Nicolette in class—AND this Nicolette had the kind of parent who says the child’s name with every single sentence. So I got a nice year-long exposure to the name and, if it helps, never thought of Nicorette. I’m not sure why, since they’re only one letter off from each other, but those two names are just completely separate in my mind. Even after I read your letter and put it into the spreadsheet, I’d forgotten the Nicorette thing by the time I came back to it.

Probably because of Nicollette Sheridan (who was born in the early 1960s), and because of the immense popularity of the name Nicole in my own generation, I feel like Nicolette is different in era/style from Adelaide, and Juliette feels like a better fit to me. But I think either one works.

I suspect either Nicolette or Juliette would develop its own nickname over time. Maybe it would be something not related to the name, or maybe her sister will call her Nini or Leelee, or maybe one of the nicknames you don’t like would turn out to fit her perfectly. (I’m trying to remember which Liz I know whose parents said they’d really wanted to avoid the nickname Liz—but then it turned out she was “SUCH a Liz!”) Or maybe you’ll find you like a nickname better if it can be combined with the middle name, or with a nickname of the middle name: for example, Nicolette Louise could be Lettie Lou.

Juliette does not seem very popular to me yet. According to the Social Security Administration, the name Juliet was #252 in 2011 and the name Juliette was #377; the name Adelaide was #407 but climbing at a much more rapid rate. I’d expect to see them at very compatible rankings when the 2012 data comes out next month.

I think you’re right that a Juliette would have to specify each time that her name was spelled with an -ette instead of an -et. But speaking as a Kristen who always has to specify that it’s with a K and an -en, I can say it hasn’t been something that’s seemed like a burden. So many people have to spell their names (is it Trisha or Tricia? Jen or Jenn? Isabelle or Isabel? Sophia or Sofia? Aiden or Aidan? Sarah or Sara? Lila or Lilah? Ann or Anne?), it feels like a normal thing to me.

Which of the two names do you LIKE better? I found I couldn’t tell from the letter; if I could tell, I would probably push you in that direction.

In the meantime, if it would be fun to consider more possibilities, I suggest Celeste. It’s probably my top favorite French name for girls right now. Celeste Ryder; Adelaide and Celeste.

Or wait, maybe Simone is my favorite. Simone Ryder; Adelaide and Simone.

Or maybe it’s Genevieve (unless Genevieve is only French if it’s pronounced like john-vee-ev, which I also like but it’s not the version I’m thinking of). Genevieve Ryder; Adelaide and Genevieve.

Or Noelle. Noelle Ryder; Adelaide and Noelle.

Or Estelle. Estelle Ryder; Adelaide and Estelle.

Or Lisette is pretty. Lisette Ryder; Adelaide and Lisette.

I see Eloise on a list of French names; I don’t think of it as smacking of Frenchness—but if it’s French enough, it’s probably my actual first choice. Eloise Ryder; Adelaide and Eloise.

Let’s have a poll, too, to see which of your two finalists everyone prefers! (This is my first time using this new kind of poll, so let’s hope for success but brace for failure.)

[yop_poll id=”2″]

Liz writes:

We have just one week to go until our baby boy arrives and need your help naming David’s brother! Our surname (pronounced tir-boarg) is kind of a mouthful and we always need to clarify pronunciation and spelling. So we’re keen on familiar, classic names like David that feel friendly and timeless, and wont be constantly misspelled.  We also like names that seem appropriate on a little boy as well as an old man.

The challenge that we’ve had naming #2 is that many of the names we like either start with a T or end with “ter”, and we’re not sure how this repetition sounds with our surname.   We both like the name Peter (my father’s name) since it is a timeless name that you don’t hear much on little boys these days (much like David), but wonder about the repetition of “ter”.  As an alternative, we’d like to use it as a middle name if possible.

My husband’s first choice is William, which I like because it is classic and warm sounding, but I’m afraid with all the Williams and Liams out there now that he’ll be lost in the crowd.  But maybe that’s silly with such a classic name?  I also have many Williams on my side of the family so it seems overused to my ears. Although William Peter sounds very distinguished to me (but maybe too much for a little boy?).

My husband’s other favorites include Daniel (I’d like to avoid siblings with the same initial), John (family name on his side, too common for me), Theodore, and Carter.  Names I like (but do not necessarily meet our criteria) are Ethan (husband thinks it is too “soft”), Evan (ditto), Joshua (ditto), Simon, Robert, Grant, Owen, Lucas (Luke), Tyler, Jeffrey, Gregory and Landon.

I’m hoping you can help us find a timeless name that fits well with our surname before this baby jumps into our lives! Thank you!

I tried saying Peter with your surname several times aloud, and I think I prefer Peter as the middle name. I love the sound of William Peter; I think it would be adorable on a little boy and yet great on a grown man.

The names David and William seem to me to be the traditional classics of different eras: William feels more recent, even though both names have been popular all along. Perhaps it’s because William AS WILLIAM is more current: a generation or two or three ago, so many of the Williams were Bills. Or perhaps it’s just that classics drift in and out of stylishness (even if their popularity stays pretty steady), and William currently feels quite stylish.

Theodore, Carter, Evan, Simon, Grant, Owen, and Landon also have a much more modern sound than David to me.

I would be more inclined to look at the traditional names that were in style when I was a child, or when my parents were. Daniel, Joshua, John, Robert, and Jeffrey all fall into the category I’m thinking of.

Andrew, maybe. Andrew Tirboarg; David and Andrew. Andrew Peter Tirboarg.

Stephen Tirboarg; David and Stephen. Stephen Peter Tirboarg.

James Tirboarg; David and James. James Peter Tirboarg.

Adam Tirboarg; David and Adam. Adam Peter Tirboarg.

Michael Tirboarg; David and Michael. Michael Peter Tirboarg.

Nathan Tirboarg; David and Nathan. Nathan Peter Tirboarg.

Aaron Tirboarg; David and Aaron. Aaron Peter Tirboarg.