Ashley writes:

I am due with our second baby girl in a month and we still don’t have a middle name picked out. Our first daughter is named Bexley Grace. We chose Bexley from a list of British surnames we saw. I like British, preppy sounding names that are not common but still sound like a name. We have chosen the name Palmer for this baby girl. Because we choose uncommon first names I think I’d like to stick with common middle names but not set on that. Names we have considered are Palmer Kate, Palmer Joy, and Palmer Faith. I don’t love any of those. Joy and Faith are only there bc our first daughters middle name is Grace. Other first names we love and considered were Emerson and Sloan. Sloan is too popular and my husband changed his mind on Emerson so that was a no go (still my number one choice though). But it doesn’t flow with Palmer as a middle name I don’t think. I also love the name Elle but our last name is Ellis so that’s a no go. I also love names like Isabella and Sophia but they don’t really fit with what we’ve got going so far I don’t think. Emma is another favorite. We also considered Hadley for our first daughter but don’t love that one this time.

I think it needs to either be 1 or 3 syllables in order to flow well.

My name is Ashley and my husbands name is John. I don’t care if the names flow with ours though. Any ideas on a good middle name for Palmer???

Thanks!

I like what you’ve set up with your first daughter: the unusual-surname first name with the familiar-and-feminine middle name. I would avoid a middle name starting with E, because of the initials PEE; I’d probably also prefer to avoid PIE, but less vigorously.

Palmer Kate/Faith/Joy all sound great to me, but if those aren’t quite right:

Palmer Anne Ellis
Palmer Beth Ellis
Palmer Brooke Ellis
Palmer Claire Ellis
Palmer Faye Ellis
Palmer Jade Ellis
Palmer Jane Ellis
Palmer Jean Ellis
Palmer Jo Ellis
Palmer Joan Ellis
Palmer June Ellis
Palmer Kay Ellis
Palmer Raine Ellis
Palmer Rose Ellis
Palmer Ruth Ellis
Palmer Skye Ellis
Palmer Sue Ellis

My favorites are Palmer Jane, Palmer Kay, and Palmer Rose.

I agree with you that longer names sound nice too. I’d like Palmer Elizabeth if it weren’t for the PEE initials.

Palmer Cassandra Ellis
Palmer Clarissa Ellis
Palmer Cordelia Ellis
Palmer Delaney Ellis
Palmer Jillian Ellis
Palmer Katherine Ellis
Palmer Lillian Ellis
Palmer Mackenzie Ellis
Palmer Madelyn Ellis
Palmer Michaela Ellis
Palmer Olivia Ellis (POE)
Palmer Sabrina Ellis
Palmer Savannah Ellis
Palmer Serenity Ellis
Palmer Sophia Ellis
Palmer Victoria Ellis
Palmer Vivian Ellis

Update on Baby Girl Pa-donny, Sister to Adrienne, Valerie, and Joshua!
Update on Baby Girl Fl@nagan, Sister to Benjamin Thomas!
Update on Baby Girl or Boy Kenny, Sibling to Aura Rose!
Update on Baby Girl Stoke, Sister to Natalie and Andrew!

Brittney writes:

I really need your help! Here’s our story. We are due December 12th with our first bundle of joy. We are not going to find out what we are having, but don’t worry, I only need your help with a girl’s name. If we have a boy we will be naming him Luca Michael last name sounds like Chan-Choo-Lee with lots of Italian vowels. My husband and I are both Italian and with such a strong last name think it would be nice to stay within that theme. So here is our dilemma. Our name choices couldn’t be more different. I LOVE vintage-ish sounding names while my husband is stuck in the 80’s. We do have about 2 we agree on and I just wanted to know your opinion if you like the flow or any other suggestions you have. Our TOP contender right now is Emilia with a nickname of Mila. My grandfather’s name was Emil so I like the twist on the spelling of the ever popular and rising name Amelia. Here’s what we have so far.

Emilia Clara
(his grandmother’s name is Clara and would like to use that as the middle name)

Emilia Grace

 

Our other top contenders are:

Natalie Clara
Adrianna Grace

My top names:

Charlotte (although I don’t love how popular it is now)
Grace
Harper
Ella

Husband’s Top names:

Heather
Alexandra
Tiffany
Pretty much anyone that was featured on Saved by the Bell.

So I guess my real question here is how do you feel about Emilia and Clara and/or Grace as the middle names?

Thank you!!!

“Anyone featured on Saved by the Bell” is my new favorite way to categorize the way some men seem to latch onto the names of the cute girls from their high schools.

Well, it’s very good news that there are a few agreed-upon names; if I’d just seen your list and his list, I would have felt we had a long road ahead of us. I love the Emil/Emilia link, and I love Emilia Clara because then it’s your grandfather and his grandmother and that just seems very nice.

All three choices go well with Luca. I notice Natalie has the same ending as Chan-choo-lee, which knocks it down a notch for me—so I think my first choice is Emilia, second choice Adrianna, third choice Natalie.

One thing about Claire/Clara as a middle name is it can lead to The Éclair Situation. This is when the first name and middle name flow together in such a way as to allow the word éclair to form. So whenever I see Claire or Clara suggested as a middle name, I run The Éclair Test, which has two steps:

1. Does this combination make me hear the word éclair?

2. Do I mind? I mean, éclairs are awesome. If my name sounded like éclair, I would make a policy: every time someone pointed that out to me, they would owe me an éclair. The main problem would be an insufficiency of éclairs, since it’s so rare to say the first and middle names together. I’d have to go around introducing myself that way, emphasizing the éclair sound so that people would notice it, THEN I’d demand my éclair.

On that note, let’s have a poll (and perhaps an éclair)!

[yop_poll id=”21″]

Erin writes:

After years of trying, my wife and are are thrilled to be expecting a baby girl in late October. My name is Erin and hers is Virginia. Our last name has two syllables and ends in -son. This will likely be our only child.

Years before even trying to get pregnant, we decided that our future daughter would be named for my grandmother. Her name was long and Italian, and we will shorten it to Bennett. We absolutely love Bennett, and think it a strong ‘resume’ name as well.

We are now on the search for a middle. We are looking for feminine, whimsical names with around 2-4 syllables. We would like to avoid names with an A. (Our last name starts with a D, and we do not want her initials to spell BAD.) My favorites are Simone, Magnolia, Olivia and Emmeline, though I do not completely love any of those – and my wife has vetoed all of them except Simone. Her top choice was Isabel, after her own grandmother, but it was recently used by her brother for her young niece, who is the only child in the family so far.

Our first child, a son, was stillborn. His name was Orion. Though we don’t often mention his name in daily life, a middle name for our daughter with a strong O sound or slightly cosmic feel would be meaningful to us.

Thank you for your help! We love your blog.

First I looked in the Astronomy section of Baby Names Made Easy: The Complete Reverse-Dictionary of Baby Names:

Celeste – “heavenly, celestial”
Celestina – “heavenly, celestial”
Danica – “morning star”
Estelle (BED initials) – “star”
Kalinda – “sun”
Kamaria – “moonlight”
Luna – “moon”
Selena – “moon”

Next, I looked up the names of other constellations; it appeals to me to have a brother and sister both represented by constellations. It’s such a pity that Andromeda gives the initials BAD, because I think that’s a lovely choice—but there were some other options to consider. My favorite is Cassiopeia: it’s whimsical, pretty, and feminine. Bennett Cassiopeia D___son. More options, with the meanings Wikipedia includes:

Carina (keel)
Lacerta (lizard)
Lyra (lyre, harp)
Norma (carpenter’s level)
Vela (sails)

Next I looked for names that shared sounds in common with the name Orion. I went to school with a girl named Orianna, and I think it’s a very pretty name—but if I picture myself in the situation, I think I would prefer a name that related to my brother’s name without feeling like it was a namesake name.

I wonder if something like Nori would work? It uses all the letters of Orion, and it’s pretty. Bennett Nori D____son. Or maybe that again is too namesakey.

Perhaps since Erin, Virginia, and Orion all share the letters R, I, and N, a middle name that also used those three letters would make a nice family tie-in with all of you.

Lorelei would be pretty, and it has the -or- sound of Orion. Bennett Lorelei D__son.

Oh, again I get a pang about the BAD initials, because wouldn’t Aurora be nice? And I’m not crazy about BOD, either, which makes me disinclined to suggest Ophelia or Olympia; or BED, which makes me disinclined to suggest Elodie. More possibilities:

Calliope
Carolina
Chloe
Cleo
Cordelia
Fiona
Gwendolyn
Harlow
Hermione
Imogen
Ione
Isadora
Joelle
Josephine
Juno
Naomi
Noelle
Philomena
Romilly
Rosabel
Rosemary
Sophia/Sofia
Victoria
Zipporah

[The summer schedule at our house is making it hard to keep up with posts, but I thought this one would make for a good discussion topic and poll:]

W. writes:

My husband and I are expecting a second daughter any day now and we currently have a shortlist of name possibilities. Our two-year old is Daphne Elisabeth (last name sounds like Cable with a “Kr”). My favorite potential name lately has been Phoebe since I feel like it coordinates so well with Daphne and has the same characteristics we love about Daphne, but I worry that it’s just too similar. Both names are Greek, both end in an “ee” sound, both have a “ph”, both two syllables. I can’t decide if the matchiness is a good thing or an eye-roll inducing cutesy thing.

Other first names in the running:

Juliet
Camille
Alice
Blythe

Middle name will be another longer, feminine classic like Caroline, Josephine, etc. We’re most likely done with two kids but on the off chance we had a third girl, I also wonder what in the world would go with those two and not sound out of place. So do you think Daphne and Phoebe pair well as sisters? Or do you think another name on our list (or not on our list) would coordinate better?

Thanks! I’ll send an update once we have her the first half of July!

[yop_poll id=”20″]

Brooke writes:

I’ve been following you for over a year now. Basically since we first
started trying to conceive. I’m finally pregnant and am excited to start
naming our baby!
However, I’m struggling with where to even start. I was just wondering if
you had an suggestions for books to use to start our list. I already
bought The Baby Name Wizard book, but it doesn’t seem as helpful in making
a list as it does in researching that list, once you already know a name
(or style) you like.
I think I’d like something more like a really long list of names we can go
through and either select or strike out. Do you have an recommendations?

thanks!

It will not surprise you to hear that if I could have only one baby name book, it would be the one you already own: The Baby Name Wizard, by Laura Wattenberg.

(photo from Amazon.com)

As you know, it has two main sections. The first section is a list of names; each name has a pronunciation, a snapshot of its popularity, suggested sister/brother names (which often end up being more like “If you like this name, try these”), and a brief discussion of the name. The second section is categories of names based on style.

I find it helpful for list-making because you can browse in the first section (the name list part) just as you would in a standard alphabetical-list-of-names book—but each name you look at leads you gradually to find your overall naming style. If you’re leafing idly through the first section and you think, “Oh! Alice! I like Alice!,” you can immediately see that Alice is in the “Antique Charm” and “Ladies and Gentlemen” categories. You can flip to those categories and look through them; maybe you will think, “YES. This is the style category I like: I love TONS of these names!” or maybe you will think, “Hm. No, this doesn’t really seem right.” And you will go on to the next name: “Oh, ALYSSA! I like that even better!”—and off you go to check out the “Lacy and Lissome” and “Turn of the 21st Century” categories to see if either of those are more like it.

Or you can look at the suggested sister and brother names. I played a game where I let each name lead me to another name. If I liked Alice, I’d find my favorite of the sister names (Clara) and go look that up; then I’d look in the sister suggestions for Clara, choose a favorite (Eliza), and go to THAT name, and so on. Sometimes I’d end up in a loop, right back at Alice or Clara again, with an excited list scribbled down and a feeling that I was definitely on the right path. Other times I’d start at one name I liked, but soon I’d think, “Hm. I don’t really like any of these sibling names. And even when I go back and do it over, I still end up where I don’t like anything. Maybe this name is a style outlier for me.”

The second most important book in my collection sounds more like what you’re looking for: I like to have a big huge name dictionary that pretty much lists alllllll the names. I look for a book with a huge number in the title, ideally ending with a “+” rather than an “001” (it couldn’t end up at 50,001 in any way that could be considered natural; either they had to plump up the list or edit it down). I have two: The Baby Name Bible, by Pamela Redmond Satran & Linda Rosenkrantz (authors of Beyond Jennifer & Jason, the name book that took the top of my head off back in the 1990s), and 100,000+ Baby Names, by Bruce Lansky (before that, I used his book The Very Best Baby Name Book in the Whole Wide World; I still own a copy, because 30,000 names seems more reasonable than 100,000 for browsing).

(photo from Amazon.com)

(photo from Amazon.com)

I use these for general browsing/hunting—but because they list SO MANY names, I find it overwhelming to go through page by page: my eyes glaze over and I’m not even seeing the names individually anymore. I use these books more often when I need a name that starts with a particular letter or letters and I want to make sure I look at all the candidates/variations/spellings. I also use them for meanings and origins.

However, when possible I double-check meanings and origins in the book I consider my most reliable source for such things: The Oxford Dictionary of First Names, by Hanks, Hardcastle, and Hodges. I don’t use it much for browsing, just fact-checking.

(photo from Amazon.com)

I have one more book I find fun: Baby Names Made Easy: The Complete Reverse-Dictionary of Baby Names, by Amanda Elizabeth Barden.

(photo from Amazon.com)

If name meanings are important to you, I’d recommend getting a copy: it has names sorted into meaning categories such as “Blessings & Gifts,” “Happiness & Joy,” “Intelligence & Wisdom,” and “Peace & Freedom.” (But double-check the meanings for accuracy.)

********

More name book recommendations for Brooke?

E. writes:

I had no problem choosing Baby #1’s name – Anderson Joseph (AJ ) Carnevale. It fits him so well, with just enough uniqueness, professional flair and snappy nickname options.

Now that I’m expecting Baby #2 I’m frozen on a baby boy name. I can’t seem to find a pairing that has the same qualities and pairs well with Anderson.

Scanning my list of names that haven’t been completely ruled out – but still don’t feel perfect – quickly shows that I have a surname addiction. I’d like to use a family name – Deshaies (DEE – SHAY – Z) as the middle name and all my first names are also surnames – TOO Much!

Jones Deshaies Carnevale

Fitzgerald (Fitz) Deshaies Carnevale

Reid Deshaies Carnevale

Miles Deshaies Carnevale

HELP!!

P.S. If the doc is wrong and it’s a girl, our lead candidate is Reece Deshaies Carnevale. Plan B – Lumen Deshaies Carnevale.

Three surname names in a row does seem like a lot of surname. I see two main available paths here:

1. Say, “Heck with it, I LIKE surname names!” and use three surname names.

2. Choose which is more important to you, a surname first name or the family-surname middle name, and then ditch the other.

My guess is that the reason you feel stuck is that you’re looking for something similar to your first son’s name, but you’ve started out with something completely non-similar: your first son has a familiar non-surname name as his middle, but you want an unusual surname name as your second son’s middle. Again, I see two main paths from here:

1. Say, “Heck with it! The names don’t have to be parallel!” and use the family-surname middle name.

2. Decide you’d rather have the names be parallel, and choose a familiar non-surname name for the middle name.

If you choose Option 1 for both, I’d suggest that with an unusual family surname in the middle name position, you go for one of the simplest and most familiar and least whimsical surname names for the first name—and/or another surname name like Anderson that’s already familiar as a first name. Fitzgerald Deshaies Carnevale seems like Too Much to me, especially paired with Anderson Joseph. Jones Deshaies Carnevale is my favorite from your list: Jones gives a balancing simplicity to the more complicated middle name and surname. I also like that Anderson would have AJ, and Jones would have JD.

Miller would be another nice choice. Miller Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Miller.

Or Sawyer. Sawyer Carnevale; Sawyer Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Sawyer.

Grant Carnevale; Grant Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Grant.

Bennett Carnevale; Bennett Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Bennett.

Truman Carnevale; Truman Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Truman.

Davis Carnevale; Davis Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Davis.

Wesley Carnevale; Wesley Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Wesley.

Grady Carnevale; Grady Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Grady.

Broderick Carnevale; Broderick Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Broderick.

Or this is my favorite of all: Everett. Everett Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Everett.

Jodie writes:

My husband and I are expecting our 2nd child, another girl, in September. Our first born is Ada Frances. Our last name sounds like Fiddle – only starts with a K.

We are decided on a first name, Violet but my husband and I are split between the middle name. My vote is for Violet Luella and his, Violet Stevie.

Other contenders that have been tossed around are:
Juno
Beatrix
Regina
Frankie (too close to Ada’s middle name?)
Hattie/Harriet
Remi

Thoughts? Suggestions?

An odd thing happens when I see Violet Stevie: my brain reads it as Violent Stevie. (This may be a side-effect of a frequent exposure to video game, comic book, and children’s book characters.) But I would prefer Violet Luella even if it weren’t for this little brain glitch: Luella seems to me to fit better with Ada, Frances, and Violet. The one mark against Luella is that it gives the complete name a lot of L—but that could equally well be used as a point in support of the combination.

My favorite of all the names you mention is Beatrix. I like Violet Beatrix Fiddle best for rhythm, style, sibling name coordination, and overall sound.

Let’s have a poll to see what everyone else thinks!

[yop_poll id=”19″]

A. writes:

We have a four year old daughter and a six month old son and though we are not currently expecting, do plan to try for another once the baby is one or so. We hope to have four children total.

My question is regarding an honour name. Both our kids have honour names for their middles – our son has his dad’s first name in the middle spot and our daughter has a double-barrelled middle that covers both grandmas.

If we have another daughter, I have a great aunt I would love to honour. She’s my late grandfather’s only sibling and never had children of her own. Her husband has children but they were adults and out of the house for years (possibly decades?) before my aunt and uncle married. My aunt is an amazing woman who was almost like a bonus grandma to all of her brother’s grandchildren. Her name is Betty and as far as I know, she has never gone by anything else except occasionally Bette.

Sounds easy, right?

Well. My husband has an uncle with whom he was very close as a boy. This uncle was the strongest (and practically only) male figure in my husband’s life. Then, he got married. His wife is well known in the family for causing drama, acting spoiled and just generally being bat-dung crazy. Over time, the uncle also changed drastically and now has a terrible relationship with my husband. They don’t speak and have nearly come to blows. Their family will not attend any family functions if we are there, do to some blown way out of proportion slight from a decade ago. My husband basically washed his hands of it and wants nothing to do with them. And guess what the wife’s name is?

Yup. Betty.

My husband is therefore 100% not okay with it for a daughter, even in the middle spot. So now I’m a bit sad.

Elizabeth alone doesn’t work for me. It’s too common of a middle name choice to feel like a real honour name when my aunt has never used it. I don’t like the idea of some other variant either because again, it’s not my aunt’s name. I’ve considered asking her what she would have named a daughter and maybe using that?

I considered her last name but her current one is my uncle’s and isn’t one that I really associate with her identity. Her maiden name is actually my maiden name and isn’t really suited to be used as a middle (it’s LONG) and also, doesn’t obviously connect the honour to her so much as it seems like I’d be honouring my father or grandfather.

Should I just let it go? Do you have any great ideas that I’m overlooking?

I think the “having a great person to honor” + “can’t use their name” is one of the saddest roadblocks to run into in baby-naming. But it definitely sounds like the name Betty is out, and I agree with your feelings about the other options.

Here is how I comfort myself in such situations: Using someone’s name for a child is a great way to honor them and tell them how you feel about them—but it’s not the ONLY way. If you haven’t already done so, I’d suggest writing her a letter telling her you wanted badly to use her name but couldn’t because of an unfortunate coincidence, and also telling her all the things you wanted to communicate to her by the use of her name. If you don’t already have one, you could also add a framed picture of her to your house: this would remind you frequently of her, as using her name would have.

Another idea would be to let her choose the child’s middle name. It’s a bit risky (what if she chooses a name you hate?), but would be a big honor and would keep her in the naming story: “My great-aunt chose that name. She was an amazing woman who…” etc.

Update on Baby Boy Farris-with-an-H: Are These Names Too Feminine?
Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl or Boy Turrawn: Narrowing Down and Finding More!
Update on Baby Naming Issue: What If You Like the Way a Name Sounds But Not How It Looks?
Update on Baby W., Sibling to Grady!