Dear Swistle

My husband and I are the parents of 3 beautiful girls:Clara Jane, Lydia Kierston and Valerie Ann. It seems like our 4th child would most likely be a girl, if it were a boy we have the name William David picked out. I have followed your blog for sometime and remember awhile back you posted about double Mary names. However, when naming Valerie most of our family and friends immediately said all the Mary names we picked out sounded like Catholic nun names. We aren’t Catholic and to be fair my favorite was Mary Agnes nn Maggie. Which I realize is very traditional. I still really love this name combination, but am wondering if people would respond better if we chose something like Mary Eliza nn Mellie? All of our girls have one name that is a family name and we are down to Mary which is a family name on both sides. Is there any way of sprucing up Mary and making it seem “fresh” as a double name? Or does Mary, as a stand alone name, work with our other naming choices? Thank you so much!

The double-Mary names sound very fresh and charming to me, and also quite Catholic. I’m not sure if they can be separated from that connection or not, but if they can’t be, is that okay? It seems like with a lot of names, our acquaintances can give dealbreaker-implying feedback along the lines of “Oh, that sounds like ____” or “Oh, that reminds me of _____,” even when those associations aren’t negative—as if no name with any association can be used. I think it’s worth asking the follow-up question “So what? Is that a problem?” (I mean, in your own mind, to evaluate your own feelings about the raised issues. Not to the face of someone who has remarked upon an association.) (Unless their tone of voice just steps on your LAST NERVE that day.)

If you use a name that sounds like “a Catholic nun,” that is unlikely to cause people to mistake your new baby for a Catholic nun. If you like, when you introduce the baby, you can say, “Her name is Mary Agnes: Mary for her [relative] and [other relative], and Agnes because we liked it.” If they say to you, upon hearing your baby’s name, “Oh, are you Catholic?,” you can say, “No: Mary is a family name”—and most people in your life presumably already know you are not Catholic. If you plan to call her Maggie, it may hardly ever come up.

Thinking it over further, I don’t think I know any double-Marys who aren’t Mariannes or Maryellens or some other combination that hasn’t been stripped of the Catholic feeling. There haven’t been any girls with double-Mary names in any of my children’s classes so far, either. If there WERE a Mary Agnes in one of my children’s classes, I don’t think I’d assume the family was Catholic: the name has too much vintage appeal for that, and I’d wonder if parents who WERE Catholic would find those names too old-fashioned/overused (and/or too evocative of former teachers), and would be leaning more toward saint names such as Felicity and Lucia.

I did a quick, statistically-insignificant 5-child survey in my house just now, to find out what school-aged children might think; my sample included a 2nd grader, two 4th graders, an 8th grader, and a 10th grader. I first asked if any of them had ever known a girl with a Mary ____ name. They all said no. I then asked if they would make any association with such a name, or assume anything about her because of that name, and they all said no. I said, “So you don’t think of that name as being Catholic?,” and four of them said no and one of them said “Why would I?” I wouldn’t describe our area as Heavily Catholic, but we have a large Catholic church and the school cafeteria doesn’t serve meat on Fridays, so we’re not Catholic-Free, either. If your area is similar, my guess is that the child’s peers will be more surprised by two names than they will be by any Catholic-nun associations.

I do think it would help to use a second name that is less often associated with nunneries. Mary Eliza as you suggest, or something like Mary Violet, Mary Sophia, Mary Olivia, Mary Alexis, Mary Louise, etc. But if your favorite is Mary Agnes, I wouldn’t choose something else just to try to get a better reaction. Mary Agnes is one of my favorites, too.

I’m not sure how I feel about Mary on its own in this sibling group. It seems quite similar in sound to Clara, and to Valerie. If I say the names together, Clara, Lydia, Valerie, Mary, I feel like I’m saying a lot of “air” and “ree.” Not enough, however, to make me say it doesn’t work.

If the combination names continue to sound not-quite-right for your family, and if the air/ree sound repetition doesn’t bother you, then I suggest Rosemary.

Or perhaps Mary could work as a middle name.

Or if Mary could also be Marie, Marie makes a very pretty middle name or a fresh surprising first name (though it matches Valerie’s ending).

Or else I suggest going back to the family tree to see if Mary is the very last possibility or if there are still others to investigate.

I find, though, that I am rooting for you to use a Mary ____ name. I really do find them charming, and I’m ready to start hearing them again. (It is perhaps worth noting that I have never been to Catholic school, however. I hear it is a very influencing experience.)

Update (and photo!) on Baby Boy Oravec, Brother to Haven Bombay, Tusker Monsoon, and Lark India.

Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl Durham, Sister to Leah Alexandra.

Hello there,

I was wondering if you could give us a bit of help with our choices.

We are expecting a baby girl in April ’15.

Surname: Monaghan
EDD: 14/4/15
Other babies: Tristan Thomas (1 year, boy)
For boys we had considered: Humphrey, Tiernan, Jefferson, Beau, Justin
And had quite a few more in the bag!

For girls: Jessica, Bethany, Matilda, Gabriella, Nancy, Nella/Nell.

We hope to have definitely 3, and potentially 4.

So we are looking for help with out girls first and middle name.

Jessica is the front runner as have always just adored it, but hesitant due to popularity and not being ‘unique’ enough. The name must be instantly recognisable for others to spell and say but not your everyday.

Kate is grandmothers name that we would like to use and Beau is close to a dear pets name, but aware it is masculine.

Love names out of the ordinary like Pixie, Dixie & Wyatt but am aware of where we live and she would be thought of as weird!

We thought Bethany Kate was amazing, but Jessica Kate just doesn’t have the same ring to it, or does it!?

Thanks for your help!

I think Jessica Kate sounds fine. If something sounds not-quite-right to you, it may be because of the repeating K sound at the end of Jessica and the beginning of Kate. Is yours a family that tends to use first-and-middles; that is, are you likely to call her Jessica Kate? If not, it doesn’t seem like an issue to me. If so, and if it continues to bother you (or if NOT but it continues to bother you), I wonder if you’d like Jessica Jane, or Jessica Rose, or Jessica Joy, or Jessica Lane, or something similar.

A bigger hesitation I have with the name Jessica is that it has passed its peak—and its peak was a considerably high and long one. The name Jessica was in the Top 10 in the U.S. from 1976 until 2000 (and either the 1st or 2nd most popular girl name in the U.S. from 1981 until 1997), and now it is dropping steadily. So my concern is not the popularity per se, but the popularity that is now over. This certainly doesn’t mean you can’t do it: I have peers named Barbara, Susan, and Kathy, even though those were the “mom names” when I was growing up. But when you say you want something that isn’t an everyday sort of name, it makes me think Jessica is not the right name for you.

On the other hand, do you live in the U.S.? If not, all my statistics are meaningless: in another country, the name Jessica might not have reached anywhere near the saturation levels it achieved in the United States.

Bethany is an interesting one to consider. It too had its peak in the U.S. back in the 1980s, and yet that peak was not high (it never got higher than #87) and didn’t last long (it was only in the Top 100 from 1983 until 1988). Because of that, it doesn’t seem as attached to a particular time period as Jessica does. People say “My husband likes the names of our peers, like Jessica and Ashley,” but they don’t add Bethany to that list. It has the same rhythm as Jessica, but I think it’s a much more currently-usable choice. Since you describe the name Bethany Kate as amazing, I’d vote for that.

The name Nancy intrigues me. It was in the Top 10 in the U.S. from 1934 until 1955, which means it is currently a Grandma Name or Great-Grandma Name—in other words, gearing up for its comeback. I’d say its time is not quite here, but such things are difficult to predict: often I don’t know I’m ready to hear a name again until I hear it on a child, and then I’m bowled over and wish I’d thought of it first. And I definitely feel ready to hear the name Sally again, and Sally is a peer of Nancy. It would be a bold choice, but I suspect people would be happy and interested to see it.

In 2013, 50 new U.S. baby girls were named Nella and 8,370 were named Ella. I think this would lead Nella to be mistaken for Ella, but I’m not sure, and it depends how high your tolerance is for correcting people and/or repeating and spelling a name: some people don’t mind a bit and in fact relish the chance to discuss the name a little, and others flinch every time. And of course all this is irrelevant if you are living in a country where the name Nella is widely used and known. In the U.S., it would not meet your preference for an instantly recognizable name. Nell would be familiar, however, if not common; it is also sometimes used as a nickname for Eleanor or Penelope.

Matilda and Gabriella both strike me as good choices, especially with Tristan. I find Matilda Monaghan a bit difficult to say, but not deal-breakingly so.

I think Kate is great with all the choices, and would definitely choose that over Beau—not because Beau is more masculine, which doesn’t bother me with a middle name, but because my own preference would be to use a grandmother’s name before a pet’s name (also to HAVE a grandmother’s name rather than a pet’s name). The middle name position would also be a good place for the names you love but consider too out-there to use.

Let’s have a vote! [Sorry, all the polls seem to be down, and all but this one appear to be actually deleted. I have Paul on it and am trying not to panic.]

[yop_poll id=”0″]

Hello!

My husband and I are having a difficult time deciding on a girl name. With our son, we couldn’t decide on a middle name until we had to sign the birth certificate at the hospital! Our last name is Jordan. Our son’s name is Matthew Mason (Matthew after my father and Mason because we liked it). Our baby girl is due in June. We don’t want anything too popular/trendy (we didn’t like that with Matthew, but it was important to me to name him after my father). We also don’t want anything too strange or unique. Here are the names we like so far (in the order that I like them):

Willa
Mirabelle or Mirabel (nickname Mira)
Mia
Reese

To throw a kink in things, my husband wants the middle name to start with the same letter as the first name (to match our son); however, I cannot find a good middle name to sound good with Willa.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Eva Marie

I think the alliteration idea is a fun one, but considering the two of you already have a lot of trouble settling on a name, it seems like it adds an unnecessary additional level of difficulty to the situation. Would your husband be willing to make that an “if it works out, great; if not, fine” preference? I’d also be influenced by whether you were planning to have more children after this one.

Willa is my favorite from your list, too. If the alliteration is important, I like Willa Waverly. If the letter without the sound would be enough, I like Willa Wren. Or do you have any W surnames in your family trees, or do you admire any authors/poets/actors/artists/etc. with W surnames? I’m thinking of something like Willa Whitman or Willa Wilder or Willa Wharton or Willa Winslow.

Mia has been in the Top 10 since 2009, so I wonder if it might be too popular for your tastes. Its usage may be even higher than that, since it is sometimes used as a nickname for Amelia and other names.

We’ve had so many letters from parents who used the same initial for the first two children and then felt stuck, it makes me feel a little skittish about Mirabel(le) and Mia—especially if the middle names will also both start with M. If you’re not planning more than two, or if you would like to continue with M names for everyone, or if you don’t think two double-M names in a row is enough to make you feel stuck, then I do very much like Mirabel. I think it fits nicely with Isabel and Annabel, while being less familiar; and Mira is a nice easy nickname, similar to Mia but less common.

Reese stands out to me among the others because of its different style: Willa, Mirabel, and Mia are all very feminine and used exclusively for girls, while Reese/Rhys/Reece is unisex. Because on your list you have three of one style and one of another, my guess is that Reese is an outlier for you—but that’s not necessarily true, and if you’re stopping after two children it doesn’t particularly matter. It matters only if it IS an outlier, AND you’re planning more children, AND you’d like sibling names to coordinate, AND you have more girls.

Because you have Willa, Mira, and Mia on your list, I wonder if you’d like Willemina/Wilhelmina (I prefer the former spelling from my own family tree; the latter spelling may be more familiar). It gives you the nicknames Willa and also Mina.

Another option, I think, is to fully embrace the alliteration idea, to the extent of using it as a starting point: there may be more names to add to your list if you go deliberately searching for double names instead of single. It might also work to look for names that coordinate with your son’s in other ways: the same 2/2 syllable pattern, or the same honor/like pattern.

Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl or Boy S., Sibling to Patrick, Lila, and Joel; Good C Names for Girls!

We watched The Sound of Music this past week, and a surprising number of the names sounded good to me. Liesl is a name Paul and I briefly considered for Elizabeth, but we didn’t like the way it rhymed with diesel, and the spelling/pronunciation issues were past our preference threshold. Still, I like the name. Louisa, another sister, has similar sounds but seems easier to use.

Georg (GAY-org) and Friedrich (FREE-drick) work very well when translated to George and Frederick.

Brigitta, Marta, and Gretl all appealed to me, though I’d spell Gretl as Gretel instead. I’m not sure I can get past the Hansel and Gretel association, but I did for the duration of the movie. One of the nuns is named Margaretta, which I also like.

Max was Max before that name sounded good again. And the Baroness’s name is Elsa!

Update on Baby Girl!

Dear Swistle,

I’m hoping you can help be get an unbiased opinion on some naming issues we are having.

We are expecting our second child in March and do not know the gender. Our son is Deacon and IF this baby is a boy, his name will be Charlie. We don’t love Charles, & I’m okay with a “nickname” as a first name (my full name is Nicki and it never bothered me) so I think we’ll leave it at that, plus I don’t really think Charles goes as well with Deacon.

Anyway, it’s the girl name we are soooo stuck on. We have a long list of “okay” choices, and a few that I like and a few that my husband likes. But nothing we agree on and definitely nothing that stands out to us as a strong candidate or even “the” name! Which is hard because I am so set on Charlie, I want to feel something for a girls name.

Right now my top name is Mercy, if I could name her myself, it would be done. But my husband isn’t fond of it. Other names I’ve suggested are: Blaire, Olive, Georgia, Tae (which I’m not sure sounds okay with our one-syllable last name) and Maren.

My husband loves Daisy (the name we were going to use if our first child would have been a girl) but I don’t want my kids to have the same letter, people would think we were going for a Duggar theme. My husband says that doesn’t matter, because we will have more kids but I think it would bother me until we did. Is that silly? To further compound this aversion is that our last name starts with a “D”. So adding Daisy just feels singsongy.

My husband also likes Nora (which I think is too popular) and Caroline (which is pretty but it’s how my Mother spells her name, but hers has always been pronounced Carolyn. Which I feel would cause a lot of confusion with any family/friends who know my Mom.)

For a middle name, I’ve thought about using mine (Tyler, which was my grandmothers maiden name). I’m not totally set on it, but a girl name that goes well with Tyler as a middle would be a plus. We feel strongly that middle names should honor family members or someone influential in either of our lives. The short list of middle names is Tyler & Lou.

So if you could help, I would really appreciate some insight. My goal is to find a name that is timeless, classic and feminine yet not overused and not a name that falls into the old-fashioned turned trendy category.

Thanks so much,
Nicki Dunn

I think the first thing I’d do if we were having this consultation over coffee is to find out what the various words mean to you, because usage varies so much: timeless, classic, trendy, overused, old-fashioned, feminine. I’d want to ask you a lot of questions to see if I could narrow in on the definitions: i.e., at what point for you does “in style” turn into “trendy”? Are Henry and Molly old-fashioned-turned-trendy, or are they classic/timeless? Are Harriet and Margaret feminine? Are Lydia/Audrey/Grace/Emily overused? And so on.

The name Deacon, for example, is modern in usage, and occupation/surname names are currently in style. I wouldn’t consider Charlie trendy per se (though it’s definitely enjoying one of its many returns to stylishness), but if someone specified “not old-fashioned turned trendy,” I’d be hesitant to suggest it in case that’s what they meant. Tae and Maren don’t seem to fall into the timeless or classic categories. Olive and Georgia and Nora seem like old-fashioned names that have come back into style, and I wouldn’t necessarily have used the word feminine to describe either Olive or Georgia, despite them being clearly/exclusively female names.

It is a bit of a challenge to find a name that is timeless/classic but not overused or old-fashioned-turned-trendy, because “overused” and “old-fashioned turned trendy” are perhaps the main two issues of timeless/classic names. One of the markers of a timeless/classic name (especially the classic ones) is that it keeps coming back into style; and sometimes when people use the word “trendy,” they mean “in style” or “just came back into style”; this can be avoided by using names that are OUT of style, such as Beverly and Bernice, but there’s always the danger that those are the next ones to come back in. Classic names typically go through cycles: first they’re in style, then they’re Parent Names, then they’re Grandparent Names, and then they’re Great-Grandparent Names and start to sound fresh and interesting again. The names Henry and Lucy are good examples: they go in and out, but they keep coming back, and right now they’re back. I don’t consider them trendy (their long usage keeps them safe from that, in my view), but if someone specifies “not old-fashioned turned trendy,” I’d wonder Henry/Lucy was exactly the sort of name they meant. “Vintage revival” would be another way to put it. The more popular ones in this category can find themselves called “trendy”; the less popular ones can find themselves called “hipster.” Often the names are FIRST called hipster, while they’re still unusual/edgy (I remember the startle factor of the first baby Lucy I encountered, more than 20 years ago), THEN called trendy as they come into more common usage.

Other timeless/classic names (especially the timeless ones) don’t go in and out like that, in which case they’re usually considered overused. John and Elizabeth are good examples of this: decade after decade they’re right up near the top of the popularity charts, timeless/classic, never trendy, but if someone says “not overused,” I’d be hesitant to suggest them. Their continued popularity decade after decade after decade can make the market feel saturated, and/or can make the names so familiar the eye skips right over them.

If your husband isn’t fond of the name Mercy, and he loves Daisy but the D initial is an issue for a couple of reasons, I wonder if you would like Maisy. If you want timeless and classic and not trendy, I think I’d start with Margaret and use Maisy as the nickname; Daisy is also a nickname for Margaret, so you could use it without the same D-initial problems.

If what you like about the name Mercy is the sound, I wonder if you’d like Darcy. It has the same D-initial issues as Daisy, however.

Or Mercedes, which means mercy or mercies (Oxford Dictionary of First Names; Baby Names Made Easy) and could be used with the nicknames Mercy or Sadie.

Lacey is another option. Lacey Dunn; Deacon and Lacey.

Or Lucy, but I suspect that’s too popular for your tastes, and may also be old-fashioned-turned-trendy.

Meredith doesn’t sound similar, but the visual similarity caught my eye and it feels like a very nice fit for your preferences. Merry is a cute nickname for it.

If what you like about the name Mercy is the virtue-name element, I wonder if you’d like Verity. I do start to feel a religious theme happening with either Deacon/Mercy or Deacon/Verity, but that may be a positive.

Felicity is another option. I also like Hope and Joy and Grace, but Grace is probably too popular for your tastes and forms Grace Ton or Gray Stun with your surname; and all three may turn your surname into Done.

Or Constance? I know a Constance who goes by Consie. Constance Dunn; Deacon and Constance.

Clementine means merciful (Baby Names Made Easy). Clementine Dunn; Deacon and Clementine. One of the issues people mention with the name Clementine is the difficulty of finding a good nickname; I would be interested in seeing if Minnie would stick.

Claudia comes to mind. Claudia Dunn; Deacon and Claudia.

Or Harriet. Harriet Dunn; Hattie Dunn; Deacon and Harriet.

Josephine Dunn; Josie Dunn; Deacon and Josephine.

Molly Dunn; Deacon and Molly.

Cordelia Dunn; Delia Dunn; Deacon and Cordelia.

Lydia Dunn; Deacon and Lydia.

Louisa Dunn; Deacon and Louisa.

A question for those of us looking for something quick and light to do today: What are your top two favorite names right now, one boy name and one girl name?

You can interpret this question however you like: as the top two you would actually use for an actual child, or the top two you’d use if you weren’t prevented by one thing or another—whatever you’d think of as “your two favorite names right now.” I suggest doing this fast/fun rather than careful/accurate, to avoid unfestive hand-wringing.