Update on Baby Naming Issue: “The Juan-Pablo Jones Problem”

Dear Swistle,

I am so sorry not to have discovered your blog before this, the middle of my third pregnancy, but am hopeful that you can help me and my husband out with our big naming problem! His/the kids’ last name is pronounced Lind. If we have a boy (which I suspect we won’t), his name will be my maiden name, which has been our chambered boy name for each pregnancy so far. We haven’t completely decided yet, but believe we will probably try for one more baby after this one, and also have a second boy name ready if we need it.

Our big problem is finding a girl name. Ironically, we chose our two daughters’ names very easily–but that was before realizing that our theoretical name preferences are wayyyyy out of step with our actual ones! Our 3-year-old is Sophia and our 18-month-old is Ava. Believe it or not, we were going for unique names both times, only to choose names that have been in the top five for the past several years.

When we named Sophia, we had no idea what sorts of resources were out there for discussing and analyzing names–we just talked to each other and decided that Sophia was a pretty, elegant, RARE vintage choice, which was exactly what we wanted. We were among the first in our social circle to have kids, so we just didn’t know better. After Sophia was born, we started to gain a sense that the name wasn’t as uncommon as we thought (right away I noticed that NO ONE reacted with the delight and surprise I had been expecting, and then another Sophia was born in our social circle a few weeks later), but it wasn’t until Ava came along that it really hit home. Why? Because for the past 18 months, I don’t think two weeks have gone by without someone saying to me, “Wow, my nieces/neighbors/kid’s friend and her sister are named Sophia and Ava! What a coincidence!” After the first couple times, I finally found the SSA website and a few baby name blogs, including your own, and was aghast to learn how NOT unique these names were, both generally and in our state (where Ava was number 1 the year ours was born).

I can’t tell you how disappointing this has been to me. I can’t imagine the girls’ being named anything else, but there are times when I feel genuinely embarrassed to introduce them by name, because I feel that everyone is thinking, “Wow, don’t their parents have any creativity?” I used to have thoughts like that about other people’s kids’ names, so please don’t try to convince me that it doesn’t happen! The one thing that has helped is that we often call them by random nicknames (Lulu and Lottie), so at the very least strangers don’t have to know they have two of the most common names in the present universe.

So that brings us to naming our third child, if it is a girl. This baby feels impossible to name because we have boxed ourselves into a corner I don’t like. Several people have already suggested Olivia to me, apparently believing this must be my style since it’s another top-fiver. And indeed, maybe we should just go with that, because what’s the point of doing otherwise? It IS a pretty name (although not one that I would have picked in a vacuum, because I’m not drawn to that long O at the beginning). I’d prefer not to repeat an initial, but Amelia is another one that would fit in with the other girls’ names. Lila is a favorite of mine, but won’t work with the last name.

However, I can’t help but feel that we have a shot here at coming up with something that recasts the set, so to speak, and jazzes it up a little bit. Obviously if we named her something like Urania, it would stand out in a bad way, and wouldn’t fix the problem. But am I overlooking something in the in-between area that would make the group feel slightly less faddish?

By the way, I hope this question doesn’t offend anyone with daughters named Sophia or Ava. Obviously, I think they are beautiful names or I wouldn’t have used them! I think it’s the SET, and not so much either name individually, that feels faddish to me.

I would really, really love your help with this! We aren’t concerned with a middle name (we just use names of significance to us at the time, and can choose that toward the end based on the first name we pick), so the focus is just on making sure the first name works. The baby is due on Thanksgiving, but the other two were both three weeks early…

Thank you so much, if you’re able to help!

– VAN

I think what I might do is try to spin the sibling group as Vintage Hollywood Glamour. Sophia (Loren), Ava (Gardner), and ? You certainly could go Olivia (de Havilland) here, but you don’t love the name and I don’t suggest it. I might go more this direction:

Audrey (Hepburn) (repeats an initial)
Catherine (Deneuve)
Elizabeth (Taylor)
Esther (Williams)
Faye (Dunaway)
Grace (Kelly)
Greta (Garbo)
Helen (Hayes) (a little hard to say with the surname)
Ingrid (Bergman) (hard to say with the surname)
June (Allyson)
Katherine (Hepburn) (she spelled it Katharine but I’d go with Katherine)
Lana (Turner) (probably not with the surname)
Lillian (Russell) (probably not with the surname)
Mae (West) (a little difficult with the surname)
Marilyn (Monroe) (probably not with the surname)
Rosalind (Russell) (absolutely not with the surname)
Vanessa (Redgrave)
Veronica (Lake)
Vivian (Leigh) (she spelled it Vivien but I’d go with Vivian)

I wish my search had turned up a well-known actress named Margo, because that’s the name I thought of while reading the letter. Margo Lind; Sophia, Ava, and Margo.

Or Genevieve. Genevieve Lind; Sophia, Ava, and Genevieve. It makes me think of Jenny Lind, in a good way. If she goes by Evie, that might be too close to Ava.

I also like Eliza. Eliza Lind; Sophia, Ava, and Eliza.

Or Eloise. Eloise Lind; Sophia, Ava, and Eloise.

Or Esme. Esme Lind; Sophia, Ava, and Esme.

Or Dahlia, which is similar to Lila but I think works better with the surname (though it’s still a little tricky). You could call her Dolly, which goes nicely with Lulu and Lottie. Dahlia Lind; Sophia, Ava, and Dahlia.

Or Flora. Flora Lind; Sophia, Ava, and Flora.

Or Bianca. Bianca Lind; Sophia, Ava, and Bianca. I really like that one.

But even before thinking about spin, I’d want you to make a list of the names you love—without, at first, consulting the SSA charts. Just: what would you name this baby if you hadn’t found out about the popularity issue? You’re feeling self-conscious about your previous choices, but the spin that might bring the best chance of long-term happiness is “We like popular names. *SHRUG*” I do understand on a visceral level the stomach-dropping sensation of thinking you’ve chosen a name for a particular attribute and then finding that not to be the case. But if you can force yourselves to retroactively spin your style as something more like “having our finger on the pulse of current naming style” or “deftly choosing the enduring, quality names from among the trends” or something like that, it may help with long-term feelings about the names. Does anyone else know that you were trying for rare? If not, it can be our little secret. No one has to know that you didn’t know. You can practice a casual little laugh: “Oh, I know it’s so popular! But we just loved it!” Or to downplay the whole thing while not making your first two children feel you regret their names: “We just chose our favorite name each time.”

I’m a fan of sibling-name coordination, but I don’t think it’s a huge deal when there’s a shift partway through. As long as you’re choosing based on your own tastes, it’s likely the names won’t clash: the most likely thing is that you’d choose another pretty, elegant, vintage name, and the only gap would be in popularity.

Update on Baby Girl Or-lee, Sister to Maya and Benjamin

Update on Baby Boy Fox, Sibling to Atlas and Gwendolyn

Update on Baby Girl or Boy Airs, Sibling to Jacob, Avery, and Carter

We are expecting our third boy in less than two months and we are not even close to choosing a name.

Our last name is pronounced like Globe without the G and our first two boys are Elijah Edward (nickname Eli) and William Louis (nickname Will). The name Elijah came to us kind of randomly but we liked that it was Hebrew in origin since we are Jewish and Edward was one of my grandpas’ names. William (not Hebrew in origin, I realize) fell into our lap because our tradition is to name after the most recently deceased relative and my grandpa Bill passed away a few weeks before William was born.

With that tradition in mind, we are likely going with Andrew as the baby’s middle name to honor my MIL’s mom (Ann), but we’re nowhere on the first name (we would also prefer a name that is Hebrew in origin this time, and that is why we’re not just going with Andrew and being done). The only real requirements are that the name works well with our other boys’ names and that it’s reasonably easy to spell and say. We are clearly okay with popular names since both our boys are in the top ten, but it doesn’t have to be overly common either.

Off the table family names include: Asher, Alexander, Ari, Zachary, Evan, Isaac, Jacob and Joshua.

Thanks!

When I was naming my own babies, I found I got very excited about girl names, but boy names were more of this kind of choosing process:

1. Make a list of names we’re fine with.
2. Pick one; it doesn’t really matter.

I mean, not REALLY: I did still fret and have fun and so forth. But I remember it felt like the pressure was off because all we really had to do was pick one of the perfectly fine names from our perfectly fine list. I thought of it as an upside AND a downside of naming a boy: less fun but also less stress.

I wonder if you’d like the name Benjamin. I think of that as such a warm, friendly name. Elijah, William, and Benjamin; Eli, Will, and Ben. I like that everyone gets a long form and a nickname. I like that the name Benjamin splits the difference between the biblical Elijah and the traditional William.

I have Jonathan in the same mental category as Benjamin. Elijah, William, and Jonathan; Eli, Will, and Jon.

Or Judah: it’s biblical, but it’s in current popular usage so it’s familiar. And it has the great nickname Jude. Elijah, William, and Judah; Eli, Will, and Jude.

One from my own list is Simon. Elijah, William, and Simon. I like that it’s biblical but not TOO biblical, so it doesn’t leave William out.

Another from my list is Daniel: I particularly like the nickname Dan. Elijah, William, and Daniel; Eli, Will, and Dan. I like that everyone gets an L, not that it matters at all; it just appeals to me.

If you used a name starting with A, would that count as naming the baby for your mother-in-law? Aaron and Adam are both good Old Testament A-names, and my guess is that if this WOULD satisfy the honor-name issue then you have already thoroughly considered them, but sometimes having someone else suggest something can freshen things up. Elijah, William, and Aaron. Elijah, William, and Adam.

I’m hoping commenters can help me with more Hebrew name suggestions: I was sort of floundering around in the Old Testament without knowing what I was doing.

I loved when the kids were in preschool and the school would send home a directory so I could see everyone’s names. In elementary school, one of the best times of the school year is February: the kids come home with lists of names for addressing valentines. When the kids are in middle and high school, I like when the yearbooks come out and I can look at all the names.

I will tell you what tops all of those experiences: high school graduation. Finally, the MIDDLE names!

My eldest child graduated from high school recently, and I am ready to make a report:

1. I was so happy that we’d given him my maiden name as his second middle name. So happy. I loved hearing it read aloud. In fact, it made me wish we’d hyphenated his surname so I could have heard my maiden name more often. There have been years and years of my husband’s family name getting all the reading-aloud at events and all the writing-down in the yearbooks and programs, and that seems very wrong and unfair.

2. Occasionally someone naming a baby will express concern about a name they’re considering, thinking ahead to how it will sound being read aloud at graduation. I had forgotten an aspect of the situation, but Rob reminded me: during rehearsal, the person who will be reading aloud the names asks each graduate how they would like their name read aloud. If you are fretful because of sound or rhythm or length or whatever, the name can be read differently than it is on the birth certificate. (I don’t mean like saying Louise Thoroughgood if the name is Emma Thompson. But if you went with Emma Rose Bella Louisa Parker Thompson, you can have them read it as Emma Rose Thompson.)

2b. But also: it mattered not one single fig. The reader read each full name with big spaces between the parts of the name so there were no issues of running-together; for example, “Robert. Elliot. Whistle. Thistle.” There was vast variety in length and type of name, and everyone was listening too hard for familiar names to worry about other people’s names. One kid had FIVE names, and who cared? No one. Well, Swistle cared, but in a thrilled way: five names! Good stuff!

Even better, the graduation program has all the names printed in it, so I could really pore over it. Heck yes I made a spreadsheet so I could sort them.

There were a lot of the middle names you would expect: Anne, Lynn, Jane, Rose, Elizabeth, Marie. I realized when trying to make the boy half of that list that I don’t think of there being standard middle names for boys. Maybe James? But not the way I think of Grace/Rose/etc. Now, that’s interesting. Why aren’t there? Or why ARE there for girls? For boys there were a bunch of middle-name repeats, but not ones that I’d list off the top of my head as Middle Name Names the way I would with Lynn and Jane.

The most common middle name for girls in this graduating class was Elizabeth: approximately 13% of girls had that middle name. The second most common middle name for girls was Marie: nearly 12% of girls. Third place was Rose with nearly 6%. More with a significant number of repeats: Ann/Anne, Lynn.

The most common middle name for boys in this graduating class was James: approximately 9% of the boys had that middle name. Close on the heels were Joseph and William with nearly 7% each; then Michael and Robert with nearly 6% each. More with a significant number of repeats: David, Edward, John, Matthew, Patrick.

One student had MY name (Kristen) as a middle name. I was pleased and interested. I think of my name as having the wrong rhythm for a middle name—but WHY, when Robert and William and David and Thomas and Joseph all have the same rhythm and all make perfectly terrific middle names? In fact, I notice a large percentage of boys have middle names that are in that DAH-dah rhythm, but girls tend to have one syllable (Jane, Grace, Rose, Lynn, Ann), or emphasis on the second syllable (Nicole, Marie, Noelle, Elizabeth).

There were several middle names that seemed like they could be honor names or names that the parents loved but didn’t quite want to use as first names: Edna, Dorothy, Eugene, Melvin, Saoirse, Vasilis, Meadow.

There were not very many that seemed likely to be the mother’s maiden name, but there were some, and there were several hyphenated surnames. There were approximately as many double middle names as there were hyphenated surnames.

There were three pairs of near-duplicate names. One was just the same first moderately-common first name and then the same first two letters of the last, like if it were Sean Cowan and Sean Cobalt. The other two were the same first, the same middle, and the same first one or two letters of the surname. One of those remaining two pairings had a Top Ten name but then a less common middle name, like if it were Ashley Sage Mooney and Ashley Sage McNeil. The other was a first name in the 200s followed by a more familiar middle name, more like Grant Charles Bolton and Grant Charles Boyd.

The most popular girl name in 1999 (the year Rob was born, so it’s the year I used for this graduating class) was Emily, used for 1.36% of baby girls nationwide; it was used for less than .5% of this particular graduating class. The name Catherine, which was #98 in 1999 and used for .17% of baby girls nationwide, was used three times as often as Emily in this graduating class.

The most popular boy name in 1999 was Jacob; it was used for 1.73% of baby boys nationwide, and for 2% of this particular graduating class. The name Kyle was #28 in 1999 and used for .68% of baby boys nationwide; it was also used for 2% of this graduating class.

What mostly surprised me was how few repeats there were, even of Top Ten names you might have expected to have repeats of. Hannah was the #2 most common name in 1999, but there aren’t any in this class. Only one Samantha, only one Ashley, only one Jessica, only one Elizabeth, only one Michael, only one Matthew. Most students were the only one with their name in their entire graduating class—and we are not in a very name-adventurous area of the country.

We are adding a 5th baby to our brood after an almost 7 year break and we are absolutely stuck on names! We don’t know if it’s a boy or a girl so we need ideas for both. I have a list (but I’m not sold on any of the choices), but my husband just throws names around expecting one to “stick” and it’s driving me crazy.

We have a very Irish last name, McGrew, and the children’s names all have an Irish feel: Kenna Grace, Landon Farrell, Riley Owen, Galen Micah.

I like that they all have unique initials, but it’s proving very difficult to find another name that fits in.

For the most part, I do not like popular, common, trendy names for first names (although Landon and Riley are pretty much all three).

Middle names aren’t so much an issue if we can find a suitable first name. We will probably use a family name (Ann, Lynn, Lee, Daniel).

My boy list:
Archer
Avi
Alden
Calton
Calder
Carden
Toren

I like Archer, but when you put a middle name with it, it sounds like a title instead of a name. Archer Lee makes it sound like archer is Lee’s profession! I love Avi, but my husband does not and the rest are just attempts to find something–neither of us love any of them.

My girl list:
Annora
Seren
Orly
Maddie
Della

I thought Annora might be the one, but hubby ran with it, posted on social media with a middle name, Anora Mai, and my gut reaction when I saw it was a firm NO and we got some not so positive feedback (mostly because of the spelling of Mai). He likes Mae because it honors both our maternal grandmothers (Margaret and Pearline) and his sister Megan and his paternal grandmother was named Nora. I’m not sure it fits with the siblings names, I’m not sure I like the two names together, and I feel like I’m leaving my paternal grandmother (June) out! With only one girl, we’ve focused more on boys’ names, but we still need a girl’s name.

Some names he likes, but I do not:
Connor
Finn
Thomas
all the more common Biblical names

We also have 4 kids old enough to have an opinion. It’s going to be hard to please everyone.

Names we cannot use:
Willow and Asher (our babies born to Heaven)
Wesley (older half brother)
Leo, Leon, Leonard (would honor someone we don’t wish to honor)

I hope you can help us!
Thank you!
Christa

To start with, I want to mention the spelling Honora instead of Anora/Annora, just in case that’s the issue. Honora doesn’t quite fit with the style of the sibling names, but nor does it clash, and I don’t know about you but by Child #5 I was dropping preferences left and right in my desperation to find anything that wasn’t ruled out by previous children’s names.

I also suggest Nora, which I think is better with the sibling names. The name Mai/Mae doesn’t feel to me as if it honors a Margaret and a Pearline and a Megan; I think I would go instead for something like Nora Margaret or Nora Pearl or Nora June: fewer people honored, but the honorees would know they’d been honored without needing the connection explained. Nora Margaret McGrew; Kenna, Landon, Riley, Galen, and Nora.

Maybe Finley. Finley Margaret, Finley Pearl, Finley June, Finley Ann. Kenna, Landon, Riley, Galen, and Finley.

Or Fiona. Fiona McGrew; Kenna, Landon, Riley, Galen, and Fiona.

I like Emlyn in this sibling group, but I hesitate because the most recent sibling name ends in the same sound. I feel okay using the -ley of Finley after the -ley of Riley, in part because of the name in between them.

I also like Maren in this group, but again hesitate using it right after Galen. Maybe it’s a non-issue. I can’t decide. Maren McGrew; Kenna, Landon, Riley, Galen, and Maren.

Or maybe Morgan would work better? Morgan McGrew; Kenna, Landon, Riley, Galen, and Morgan.

For a boy, I am having a harder time. All of the names I think of either repeat an initial, or repeat a major part of a sibling’s name, or don’t feel right with the surname. Rowan doesn’t feel too similar to either Riley or Galen to me, but somehow seems too close to the two names together. I like Keegan even though it repeats an initial, but when I started typing out the group it seemed like two Ke- beginnings was a little much. Maybe not, though: I had a late night last night and may be over-sensitive this morning. Graham McGrew feels like it just misses. Malcolm appeals to me, but saying “Malcolm McGrew” felt unpleasant in my mouth. Nolan seemed great until I noticed how similar it was to Galen and Landon. Kellen is too similar to Kenna and Galen. Griffin seems too close to Galen.

Maybe Kieran? It does repeat an initial, but I like it. Kieran McGrew; Kenna, Landon, Riley, Galen, and Kieran.

I’m most drawn to Archer and Alden from your list (though I wonder if Alden repeats too many sounds from Landon and Galen). I know what you mean about the name Archer sounding like a title instead of a name: I feel that way about all of the Occupation names. But I’ve noticed that once I know a kid with the name, I lose that feeling: the kid is now Archer, and that’s just how I think of him.

It’s fun to bring older kids in on the decision, but oh man, it can also be such a pain. I recommend mentioning early and often that everyone is welcome to give opinions and suggestions, but that it’s the parents’ job to choose the name. This is a good opportunity to revisit Family Discussion favorites such as “There is no one solution here that will make everyone equally happy” and “You might not be happy with our choice, but we hope that with time you will come around to it” and “When you are grown-ups, you will get your turn to make these decisions.” We had to do it when naming a cat: what started as a fun family project quickly dissolved into fights and tears, and that was for a CAT.

Update on Baby Girl or Boy, Sibling to Pearl!

Hi Swistle & readers –

I’ve been a long-time fan of your site and now need some help with naming my own child. My husband and I are expecting a baby boy in about 7 weeks, he will be little brother to Adrienne (pronounced the masculine Adrian). Honestly I think a lot of the trouble we have with finding names to agree upon is our last name — it’s very common, particularly in our area — rhymes with Donson but starts with J.

We lean towards the traditional side vs. trendy and want to stay out of the top 10, preferably top 50 if we can (although you’ll see some of our favorites cross the latter list). The challenge with traditional though is it can be almost too boring with the last name.

Top contender for a middle name is James, followed by Ryan or Timothy. All family names but none that we “have to use”. Our daughter’s middle name (Louise) has family ties, but it’s something we picked because we liked it with her first name, not so much because of the family history.

I should add that our top boy names the first time around were Wesley or Cameron. Not super wild about them this time around — I don’t really like “Wes” or “Cam” with Adrienne. The first time around my husband really wanted a longer name with a nickname we would primarily use — he still likes that concept but isn’t as set on it this time around. My husband is a Caleb who has always gone by Cal, and I’m Elizabeth who’s always gone by my full name — so we have very different perspectives on nicknames :)

So here is our current list so you can see our trends — additional ideas and insight are very welcome! Help us not be boring!

Aaron — husband’s current favorite if I force him to vote. I like how it sounds, but am not wild about both kids having “A” names and I’m also not a huge fan of the double “a” and how it looks when spelled. Weird, I know.

Carter — has been a boy favorite of mine for a long time, but I am slowly coming off of it due to popularity and husband isn’t a fan.

Bennett (Ben) – my current favorite
Charles (Charlie)
Cole
Jack (we both love, but aren’t sure about Jack “Donson” and we know it’s quite popular)
James (same as Jack — not sure about pairing it with “Donson”)
Clayton — inspired from a friend who passed away, so we both love the meaning but neither are super wild about the potential nickname of Clay (and I’m not sure I like paired with our daughter’s name)

Names that have been vetoed by one or the other, either because we don’t like or we know too many people with the name:
Campbell
Soren
Michael
Henry
Thomas
Robert
William/Liam
Owen

Thank you for helping us not be boring and think outside of the box!

Elizabeth

I would like to put in a word for reconsidering Wesley. Wes is my favorite of all boy-name nicknames. I think it’s darling/sweet on a little boy and friendly/professional on a grown man, and I think it works just as well on an intellectual, an athlete, a manager, a clerk, a serious guy, a funny guy, and so on. Wesley is traditional but not boring, and a little different without seeming like you’re choosing something different just to be different. And I like it with Adrienne.

But I know how sometimes a name can just feel Not Right no matter how much someone else tries to boss you, so if we must move on, we will move on. (Are you SURE, though? Okay, I will stop.)

Nothing from the list is grabbing my attention. If I had to choose one, I’d choose Bennett: it hits that same nice “a little different but not just to be different” spot, and the nickname Ben is another really good one.

Aaron seems like it hits too many of the same notes as Adrienne: same beginning letter, both end in an N-sound, both have an R in the middle.

I wanted to recommend Ian instead, especially since you’ve considered Owen and Liam, but when I said it with Adrienne I realized it’s the last two syllables of her name.

Simon, maybe? Traditional but not boring or overused. Adrienne and Simon.

Or Oliver? Adrienne and Oliver.

Edward is a classic I haven’t heard enough of lately, with cute nickname possibilities such as Ned and Ted. Or Edmund is similar, and I might like that even better.

I’m ready to hear more Karls, too. Adrienne and Karl.

And more Pauls. Adrienne and Paul.

Louis is on my sad-I-can’t-use list, and feels similar to Wesley. Adrienne and Louis.

Elliot is in that same category for me. Adrienne and Elliot.

George with your surname has the pleasing alliteration of Jack or James, but it’s less common. Adrienne and George.

I have a soft spot for the name Alfred and would love to see it around more. Adrienne and Alfred.

I am also fond of the name Frederick. Nice old name but not as out-and-about as it used to be. Adrienne and Frederick.

I wonder if you might want to consider Timothy as a first name. It’s familiar, but not high in current usage. Maybe Timothy Jack, or Timothy James, or Timothy Clayton. Adrienne and Timothy.