Hi Swistle!

My husband and I are expecting our third boy this winter, and due to the two big brothers, Charlie & Eamon, our list of boy names has dwindled, and we’re struggling to find a name we both agree on. The act of suggesting names has always been paralyzing for my husband, so it’s basically on me to provide a list of names, which we then narrow down. We (I) need your help!!

One big issue: he initially gravitates toward more traditional names – his one attempt at a name list was essentially the top 10 names from 1985. I do not. My only real restrictions are no rhyming or alliterative names. Our last name sounds like the word “foreign,” so that rules out names that start with the letter F or names such as Soren.

My top contender is Arlo, but unsurprisingly given his tendencies, my husband’s initial reaction was lukewarm, and I’m not sure I’ll be able to win him over. That said, we do have an Eamon, so there is hope. Also on my list are Reid and Miles. If I didn’t have a nephew Cal, the name Callum would also be on my list. Before we found out about the baby’s sex, our top girl’s name was Edie, followed by Louisa, and Eliza. We haven’t decided if we’re done building our family, but I’d like to leave Edie as an option and am tending to avoid names that begin with E.

Do you have ideas for names I could add to my currently very short list? I really don’t want to go into labor still deciding what we will name this child! Thanks so much for your consideration and advice.

Thank you!

I think Arlo seems too similar to Charlie with those matched -arl- sounds.

I think Reid and Miles are both great in this group, though for me Reid would rule out a future Edie. Can you say Miles over and over to your husband until he comes around? I had pretty good success with that technique when naming babies with a similar partner. Or I wonder if either of you would like Milo, which is like a combination of Miles and Arlo. Milo Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Milo.

I started to make a list of more candidates to consider, and this is how far I’d gotten when I stopped, discouraged, feeling like I was on the wrong track and was making a list of names NEITHER of you would like:

Anderson
Brody
Casey
Keegan
Oliver
Patrick
Spencer

The names Charlie and Eamon together had given me a very appealing mental image of two merry little vintage boys playing hoops on the cobblestones, tweed knickers and snap-brim caps, very Charles Dickens, and so I’d been looking for more names like that in the English and Celtic and Vintage Charm sections of The Baby Name Wizard, but nothing seemed right. I found more what I was looking for in the Timeless section: Timeless for your husband’s traditional leanings, but there are lots of fresher and more interesting choices than the Top Ten 1985.

Bennett: it has the Ben of the classic/traditional Benjamin, but it’s more contemporary and less common. Bennett Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Bennett.

Or Davis. It’s like David, which is very Top Ten 1985, but updated/fresher. Davis Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Davis.

Wilson, similarly, takes William from the Top Ten and makes it something a little more interesting. Wilson Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Wilson.

Or Clark. Snappy, but has a traditional, familiar feeling. Clark Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Clark.

Still snappy but with the confidence of thousands of years of usage: Isaac. Nicknames Ike or Zack, if you want them. Isaac Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Isaac.

Grant, which I have filed with Reid in my mind. Grant Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Grant.

Wesley, nickname Wes available. Wesley Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Wesley. The matched -lie/-ley endings might be too much or might be just fine.

Mitchell is a name I think you should say to yourself again and again until it loses its familiarity and you hear the interesting bouncy sounds of it. Mitchell Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Mitchell.

Russell, similarly: say it again and again until you hear it as an interesting sound. Russell Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Russell.

Malcolm, which sounds a little like Callum but without running into the nephew’s name. Malcolm Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Malcolm.

Paul, which I have ruined for myself by using it as my husband’s blog pseudonym, but it is a wonderful name really: warm and nice to say, and unexpected in this generation. Paul Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Paul. I think people in the grocery store would ask the baby’s name, and you would say Paul, and they would say “Oh!!”—suddenly realizing that they had forgotten about that name, and had missed it.

Louis, another warm and gentle and forgotten choice, but it would rule out Louisa. Louis Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Louis.

I wanted badly to suggest George, which would be high on my list if I had another boy to name—but I think George Foreign sounds too much like George Foreman. The man himself is not a negative association for me, but the relentless George Foreman grill commercials are. Maybe Gage instead? Gage Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Gage.

Dear Swistle, Please help!

I am due with my fourth boy in just two weeks, and we still haven’t found a name that we completely love. Our last name is Berns, spelled differently. Our current boys’ names are Brighton, Rockwell, and Sundance. All three of these names are names that we thought of before each of my respective pregnancies with the older boys, and loved them so much that we just knew that they would be our next boy’s name. We haven’t had a similar name or feeling about this one. We’ve gone around and around, and now we’re really running out of time. We tend to like nature names, Western/cowboy names, and surnames as first names. Also, our first three boys coincidentally ended up with names that have 8 letters, so I would love to continue that tie, if we can. Popularity is also very important to us – we tend to like very uncommon names, preferably out of the top 1000. I would also prefer to not repeat sibling initials (no B, R, or S names). The only name we both like is Jasper. However, I don’t know that that fits, stylistically, with our other boys’ names. It’s a lot more popular than our other names, as well. It also doesn’t have eight letters, which isn’t essential, but I do think it would help me feel like a name was *the one*. There’s also the Twilight association, which My husband really feels like Jasper is the name, and I like it, but I remain unconvinced. Also, we both like Lachlan, but feel like it sounds too similar to Rockwell. Names that I love that my husband has turned down: – Riggins – Finnegan – Sullivan – Calloway – Ledger – Hartford – Woodward We would love your help, if you’re able! I really think that I’m going to have this baby early, and am panicking on what we are going to name him.

Thank you!

If I had access and consent to tamper benevolently with your mind, I would start by removing the feeling that the fourth boy’s name ought to have eight letters—even though I would have felt the same as you about it at this stage of pregnancy/naming. I remember learning in Psych 101 that the human brain can easily count…was it seven items, or was it five? Anyway, if we see a little group of, say, candies, and the group is a certain number of items or less, we can count them without counting them: we can just SEE that it is five pieces of candy, without going one-two-three-four-five. If it is MORE than five (seven?), we can’t: we have to count, or else visually separate it into groups of five or fewer (for example, I am verifying eight letters by splitting each name into two groups of four letters).

Even if your first three children’s names all had only five letters, I doubt anyone would notice (or consider it significant); with eight letters, we are almost incapable of noticing. When I briefly wondered if Twilight would be a good name possibility, I had to sit there counting the letters—and I had to do it twice to be sure.

I see the list of candidates you’ve suggested and your husband has shot down, and don’t see a parallel list of names he’s suggested and you’ve shot down. This could easily be narrative choice (if I were you, I would not want the group to latch onto one of my husband’s suggestions that I didn’t like), but we have had so many experiences here of husbands who slip into the lazy “You bring names to me, and I will give my ruling on each one” mode (or, even worse: “I have decided on a favorite name, and now it is your job to find me a name I like better than my favorite or else we have to use my favorite”), that I want to make sure that’s not the case here. This is a difficult and complicated task you have set yourselves, and you should both be putting in effort to complete it.

The trouble with the task of looking for names outside the Top 1000 is that this likely means you don’t want any of the names in the baby-name books most of us have stacked on our desks. Let me start by reminding everyone How To Find Baby Name Data Outside the Top 1000. My plan is to pull open the list for 2022, scroll wayyyyy to the bottom, and see what catches my eye.

I see what you mean about the similarity of Lachlan and Rockwell, but my own opinion is that the sound is not close enough to be a problem, especially in a sibling group of four or more.

For me, the Twilight association of Jasper has faded completely; I no longer think of it at all. But the name Jasper was #130 in 2022, and that does seem much too popular for this sibling group.

The name I would like your husband to reconsider is Calloway. It meets all the preferences AND has the available nickname Cal. Calloway Berns; Brighton, Rockwell, Sundance, and Calloway.

More options to consider:

Barnaby
Broderick (probably too close to Brighton/Rockwell but I can’t make myself delete it)
Callahan
Canyon
Casper
Channing
Clifford
Connery
Conway
Cormac
Crawford
Crockett (probably too close to Rockwell but I can’t make myself delete it)
Crosby
Cypress
Decker
Fielding
Gibson
Granger
Harrison
Haven
Holland
Hollis
Huxley
Langston
Malone
Merritt
Mordecai
Morrison
Nicholson
Noble
Oakland
Percival
Ranger
Ridley
Robinson
Roscoe (probably too close to Rockwell)
Shepherd
Sherwood
Slater
Stellan
Thompson
Truman
Warner
Winslow
Zealand

Hello Swistle!

When naming my first, your way of thinking about baby naming was so helpful! Yet here I am with baby girl #2 due in April, and I’m totally stuck.

Our last name is Jenny. It’s Swiss. So that’s cool. It’s also impossibly hard to name for.

For our first, we went with Ryan. We loved how Ryan balanced the femininity of our last name and was on the more unique side of girls’ names without being too obscure. My family heritage is Irish, so I liked that connection too.

For this next one, we have a few challenges:

1. We want something that fits with Ryan, so we can’t go too feminine, which wouldn’t work great with Jenny anyway. But I do worry about another “unisex” name. Will people think they’re both boys? They’d figure it out, but still, it feels like it’d be too much of the same.

2. We aren’t actually that adventurous with names; even though Ryan is less popular for girls (like in the 400s?), it’s still a very familiar name.

3. Both my husband and I have names that start with “Al” so A names are vetoed. Also avoid -y ending sounds if possible, to avoid a sing-song name (Jenny as a last name is silly enough).

Names I like (he doesn’t love):
– Margot (husband thinks it’s an old lady name)
– Mara
– Emory (nn Emmie)
– Noa

Names he likes (I don’t love):
– Laila
– Maya
– Emma (feels too popular for me)
– Tatum

No names are vetoed just yet. But we just aren’t on the same page! Is there any middle ground between our two styles? Perhaps neutral girl names that fall slightly more feminine?

I appreciate your help!

I had two immediate reactions: first “Oh, Jenny is a DARLING surname!!” followed two seconds later by “Oh I see what you mean.” It’s charming and challenging. I don’t think there’s any need to balance the femininity of it (she says, far too late to be of any use): I’m trying and failing to imagine someone with the surname James or Henry saying they had to give their sons feminine names to balance the masculinity of the surname.

I think if you go with another unisex-leaning-heavily-boy name for a second daughter, that yes, some people will assume at first they’re both boys. But if you go for a a name that is NOT unisex-leaning-heavily-boy, then people will be CERTAIN that only Ryan is a boy, and in my opinion that would be much worse. If you have, say, Ryan and Elliott, people may first guess boys, but will quickly and easily understand that you liked unisex/boyish names for girls; if you have, say, Ryan and Margot, people are not going to understand what happened with the naming style. Which is fine! They don’t have to understand! there’s no rule about coordinating names! and, as you say, they WILL figure it out! Don’t choose a name you don’t like just to make things coordinate! But if my name were Ryan in this situation, I would prefer the “my sister and I both have unisex/boyish names” scenario to the “people keep thinking I’m a boy but they never think that about my sister” scenario.

And so from your lists, my favorites are Emory, Noa, Tatum. Emory is unisex leaning girl, but still makes sense to me with Ryan; the spelling Noa leans heavily girl but the familiarity/popularity of Noah helps it seem more boy; Tatum is roughly evenly split in usage. I would absolutely not choose Emma here: not only has it been in the Top Three Girl Names in the U.S. for over two decades now according to the Social Security Administration, it’s used exclusively for girls. Margot, Mara, Laila, and Maya—also used exclusively for girls.

Let’s see if we can find more options to consider. Normally with a surname that seems like a first name, I might steer away from names that seemed like surnames; in this particular case, I doubt there is even the smallest chance of avoiding that particular confusion no matter WHAT first name we choose (even Jennifer Jenny would be unclear), so I am not even going to bother trying; also, many unisex names are surname names, including Ryan, so I’m just going to lean into it.

I used Elliott as my example name, and that’s one of my top suggestions. It’s unisex leaning boy, but familiar for girls, as Ryan is. And I think it’s fun to say with your surname. Elliott Jenny; Ryan and Elliott.

Callan. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but I have personally encountered a little girl with that name and it seemed perfectly appropriate on her. Nicknames Callie and Cal if she wants either of them: Callie to go more feminine; Cal to really lean into the cool. Callan Jenny; Ryan and Callan.

Ellis. Unisex leaning boy, but with the familiar El- of many girl names, and Ellie as an available nickname. Ellis Jenny; Ryan and Ellis.

Kellen. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but with Ellen right in there it doesn’t seem surprising as a girl name. Kellen Jenny; Ryan and Kellen.

Morgan. Unisex leaning girl, but I recently encountered a little boy with the name. A little bit similar to Margot and Mara and Emory. Morgan Jenny; Ryan and Morgan.

Teagan. Unisex leaning girl, but I’m drawn to this -gan ending and I think it’s cute with the surname. The G also makes it less of a repeated ending with Ryan: it turns it into -yan and -gan instead of both -an. Teagan Jenny; Ryan and Teagan.

Logan. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but not so heavily as to make it surprising on a girl. Logan Jenny; Ryan and Logan.

Beckett. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but with Becky and Bex and even Etta as available nicknames. Fun to say with the surname. Beckett Jenny; Ryan and Beckett.

Campbell. Evenly split in usage. Cammie and Cam and even Bella as available nicknames. Campbell Jenny; Ryan and Campbell.

Cameron. Fairly evenly split when considering all spellings, but this spelling leans pretty heavily boy. Cammie and Cam and even Ronnie as available nicknames. Cameron Jenny; Ryan and Cameron.

Gracen. This spelling is unusual and fairly evenly split in usage; however, the much more common Grayson/Greyson are used almost exclusively for boys. Gracen Jenny; Ryan and Gracen.

Hollis. Unisex leaning boy, but with the available nickname Holly. Hollis Jenny; Ryan and Hollis.

Keaton. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but I feel like Diane Keaton gives it a familiar feminine sound. Also, my mom has a childhood friend who goes by Keatsie, which is adorable and fun to say. Keaton Jenny; Ryan and Keaton.

Miller. Unisex leaning boy, but with the available nickname Millie/Milly. Miller Jenny; Ryan and Miller.

Sawyer. Unisex leaning boy. Sawyer Jenny; Ryan and Sawyer.

Spencer. Unisex leaning boy. Spencer Jenny; Ryan and Spencer.

Mason. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but my kids went to school with a girl Mason so it feels normal to me. Available nicknames May and Macy and Maisy. Mason Jenny; Ryan and Mason.

Parker. Unisex leaning boy, but familiar for girls. Parker Jenny; Ryan and Parker.

Update on Baby Girl, Sister to Samuel/Sammy

Hi Swistle,

I first wrote to you in 2018 when my husband I were expecting twin girls. I loved reading your advice and all the suggestions from your readers. We ended up naming them Vera and Helena. We also have a older daughter named Cecilia. We are now expecting baby #4 in early 2024! If the baby is a boy, we are almost 100 percent certain that his name will be Leo. The problem we are having is that we have almost no ideas for a girl name. When I think of my daughters names all that comes to mind is Cecilia Vera and Helena. I genuinely can’t picture a name for another little girl to add to our family.

Our last name is M@njg@fic (Main-ga-fitch) and we like names that are pronounceable in my husbands native Bosnian, but are more pan European and clearly familiar in America as well. I prefer names that are a little longer and romantic, while my husband prefers names that are shorter and easier to pronounce. We want her name to end in an A. I also love that the second letter is E in all three girls names so far, and Leo would fit that pattern as well. The second letter is not a deal breaker though. If we loved a name that second letter wasn’t E, we wouldn’t hesitate to use it.

So far we have tossed around

Julia (husband likes seems a little simple for me)
Sienna (I like but feels a little too modern compared to our other girls)
Georgiana nn Gigi (I like husband thinks is too long and complicated)
Liliana (husband likes but can’t use due to very close family already used similar name)

Our list is short so far and we really just feel out of ideas. Im sorry I don’t have a longer list to work with! Any suggestions for this baby that feels like we will never find a name for?

All the best,
T&D

Cecilia, Vera, Helena, and:

Ada
Alma
Althea
Annika
Audra
Belinda
Bettina
Bianca
Claudia
Estella
Etta
Eva
Flora
Frieda
Gemma
Geneva
Georgia
Gianna
Gloria
Greta
Isla
Louisa
Matilda
Nadia
Rosa
Stella
Sylvia
Thea
Zola

I have some strong favorites on this list, but when I started listing them it seemed like too many favorites to call strong favorites. If it’s half the list, is it helpful? Well, my favorites are Ada, Belinda, Bettina, Bianca, Flora, Frieda, Louisa, Nadia, Rosa, Stella, Sylvia, and Thea. I like the B names so much, I hesitate to point out that they would create initials some prefer to avoid.

I suggest modifying the E-as-second-letter preference to be an E-in-first-syllable preference: for examples, Stella and Greta and Thea would then be included.

Update (and photo) on Baby Naming Issue for an Already Born Baby: Should She Use a Name Everyone in the Family Loves and She’s Not Sure About?

Dear Swistle,

We are expecting a boy 11/11. My husband and I have opposite tastes in names, and I’m beginning to feel anxiety that we won’t be able to compromise (I feel there’s only so much compromise you can do for a child’s name).

I enjoy unusual, uncommon names and he prefers timeless, common names. I also prefer nickname-proof names.

We (Nicole & Justin) share a daughter named Audrey, and we frequently hear people call her Aubrey. I would like to avoid name confusion for our son.

Our last name is Myers, and I’m confident we’re using James (family name) as the middle.

The only two names my husband would even consider were Blake and Noah from my list (though he didn’t love either). I don’t like the initials for Blake… My daughter’s favorite is Noah, and I think Noah James is cute, but Noah is so popular… So popular, in fact, my coworker just named his son Noah and announced the name after his birth. I’m not friends with him, but I feel really weird about it because we share a mutual friend.

Names I loved that my husband hates:

Milo
Kade
Rhys
Owen
Grayson
Evan
Cyrus

My husband suggested only family names:
James (now the middle name as a compromise)
John
Jacob
Daniel

I would love to know your take. My husband says a coworker doesn’t matter, only family does. But I’m no longer excited about Noah. I would love to find a name with a similar vibe (soft, two-syllable, not many nicknames, but not too far out there).

Thank you!!
One Anxious Mama

I liked “there’s only so much compromise you can do for a child’s name” so much, I put it in the spreadsheet to remind me to do this one for sure. I have three questions, no four questions, to start with:

1. Which parent’s family surname is being used for the children?
2. Which side of the family is the name James from?
3. Does your daughter have any family names, and if so, from which side of the family?
4. Which parent had more say / which parent compromised more in naming your daughter?

When we’re talking about compromise–and we do need to talk about compromise–I think it is best to start by assembling all the compromises that have already been made. Let’s say, for example, that you are using your husband’s family’s surname for the children. And that James, which has already been put in the middle name position as a compromise by you, is also a family name from your husband’s side. And that your husband hated all the names on your list for your daughter, and you liked the name Audrey well enough from his list. Or let’s say the kids have been given your family surname; and James is your beloved brother’s name and the only reason you didn’t want to use his name is that it’s kind of boring but your husband’s love of the name changed your mind; and let’s say you were the one who put the name Audrey on the list and your husband eventually came around to it, and it’s a family name from your side of the family, and also her middle name matches yours. It’s nice to get a baseline established, before further compromises are made.

Audrey is a timeless name, and fairly common: #67 in 2022, according to the Social Security Administration. Let’s see if we can come up with some names that go well with Audrey, and could conceivably fit both parents’ styles, while not being on either list so far. I think we’re probably looking for Hip Biblical and Less-Common Traditional, maybe some Old Hollywood. For now I won’t avoid names with nicknames, or names that don’t go well with James as a middle name (in case that changes as part of the ongoing compromising):

Abel/Able
Aidric (too close to Audrey?)
Alistair
Calvin
Clark
Conrad
Davis
Desmond
Edmund
Elliot
Everett
Ezra
Franklin
Frederick
Gabriel
George
Gideon
Grant
Harris
Hugo
Ian
Isaac
Joel
Julian
Louis
Malcolm
Nathaniel
Nicholas (he could be named for his mother!)
Nolan
Reid
Russell
Saul
Silas
Simon
Stanley
Timothy
Warren
Wesley
Wilson

My top choice for meeting preferences is Nolan: similar to Noah, but significantly less common, while not being too uncommon (#65 in 2022); soft, two syllables, no real nicknames, not too out-there; traditional (it’s in the Social Security rankings when they begin in 1900) but fresher than some of the usual traditional choices; good with the surname and with the sibling name. Nolan Myers; Nolan James Myers; Audrey and Nolan.

Hello!

I read your blog post about numbered family name traditions and wanted to write in. Our current finalist name is George Taylor, which is also the name of my husband’s grandfather and great-grandfather. In our case, we would be restarting the tradition vs. naming directly for the father/grandfather of the baby. George is also a family name on my side, and I like the rhyme of Taylor in the middle. However, now that we’re in the third trimester (baby is due in a little over a month!), we’re waffling about this choice and really not completely certain that it’s the right direction for us.

Our girl name for this baby was going to be Audrey Joyce. Audrey because we like the sound of it and the meaning of “noble strength”, and Joyce for my godmother. We had a couple other contenders: Florence or Flora, Diana, Aurelia; but once we put Audrey Joyce together it simply felt “Just Right” in the same way that Mae Beatrix felt right for our first child. (Mae is my mother’s middle name and my husband’s grandmother’s name; Beatrix we like the sound and meaning, although we definitely waffled over Beatrix/Beatrice and only decided as we were filling in the paperwork).

The other boy’s name that is currently a top contender: Oscar Reid. Oscar we just like, Reid honours a paternal relative. I also love Samuel, Lawrence, or Paul, and my husband likes Hawk, Peter or Wyatt. When we go through lists of names, it feels like we both have strong feelings in opposite directions and can’t easily find a middle ground.

I worry that I’m getting sucked into George Taylor Fulford (the fifth, because there is also a great uncle and a distant cousin sharing the name!) because I’m tired of trying to find a name that we both like, that also works in French (we are currently living in a majority French-speaking area, and I don’t want to complicate things for our little boy), that also suits our tastes. Clearly this name works, it’s worked four times before.

Is that reason enough to pick a name? I’m a little sad it doesn’t feel as ~magical~ as our girl name picks, are we just defaulting to what is easiest?

Thank you!

You’ve read the other post, so we don’t need to start with WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THIS, WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO DO THIS, WHY IS THIS A THING THAT KEEPS HAPPENING. We can skip ahead.

Here is what I suggest: name him George, because it is a family name on both sides, and because it works in your area, and because it’s great with Mae and with a possible future sister Audrey, and because it is on Swistle’s own list of boy names that got away. But give him a different middle name and don’t make him a V.

See if you can find a middle name that gives you that click you got with Mae Beatrix and Audrey Joyce. George Reid Fulford? George Oscar Fulford? I’d prefer a middle name from your side of the family, though, or from your own favorites list, since the child will already have a surname from his father’s side, as well as a first name in heavy use on his father’s side. George Samuel Fulford, George Lawrence Fulford, George family-name-from-your-side Fulford, George your-family-surname Fulford.

I also think Oscar Reid is a great choice—though, again, I’d prefer the balance of including a name from your side of the family, rather than two from the father’s side and none from yours.

Hi Swistle!

I love your blog and have been a reader for years! Our first child (a boy) is due in 4 short weeks and we thought we had the name figured out but now are second guessing. My husband is a junior but goes by a nickname (and never his legal first name). If we were to continue the naming tradition and name him as a third we would only call him Tripp and never his legal first name. We started to doubt if Tripp is a name that would be setting him up for success one day? Is Tripp a successful doctor, lawyer, insert professional job here? We also worry if he will feel like he has his own identity if he’s a third. Perhaps we are just getting cold feet as the date gets closer or maybe these are valid concerns? I’d love your thoughts.

Other names we like but aren’t sold on are Reid (husband feeling luke warm on this one), Charlie (husband loves more than I do – I feel like it’s too common), and Emmett. Other names we like but don’t feel like the one/one of us likes but the other doesn’t as much are Lane, Grey, Walker, Lee, Harrison, Cooper. If you have any other suggestions I’d love to hear them!

Thank you!!

I think Tripp would work fine for a doctor, lawyer, etc.; it’s a nickname that smacks of patriarchal naming traditions, which in our society can further smack of wealth, higher education, and success. It sounds like prep school, and summers spent wearing all white on a boat or a tennis court; it also sounds friendly and approachable: the smiling boy with good eye contact and very white straight teeth and a good haircut and an even tan. Tripp, Skip, Chip—they’re absolutely DESTINED to be lawyers and politicians. And if he does grow up and feel like it’s not the name for him, he has the ability to change it: he can choose to go by his given name, or by his middle name, or by another nickname.

But here’s the question I have started asking myself about Sr./Jr./III/etc. naming traditions, and the question is only getting stronger and louder over the years: Why?

That can’t help but sound rhetorical and combative, but I also mean it literally and actually: What is the reason any of us WISH TO DO IT? Where does the positive warm feeling come from, when we choose a name the child won’t use, and we decide to choose it over all other possible names? What is the part we like about naming a child for his father, when it’s a name his father doesn’t use either?

What is the POINT of this tradition? No, no: don’t hear the rhetorical and combative version of the question, hear the ACTUAL question: What is the POINT. Of this tradition. What is the WHY of this tradition? What do any of us WANT FROM this tradition? What is the BENEFIT, what is the GOOD, what is the APPEAL, what is the part we LIKE? IS there a benefit? IS there something good? IS there an appeal? DO we like it?

We have had women get huffy over this question in the comments section: “Well, I LOVE my husband and WANT to honor him!!” Good, good! Is your daughter also named after you, and are you also named after your mother, including birth surname, and is your husband (who has taken your surname, because tradition is so important and he doesn’t want to have a different surname than his children) getting huffy on someone else’s name blog saying “Well, I LOVE my wife and WANT to honor her!!” Or is giving up naming rights to the husband’s family something we ask almost exclusively of women, framing it as an unreciprocated way for them to show love and honor to men?

And yes, we HAVE heard of some families that DO have matriarchal naming traditions! Those are so fun to hear about BECAUSE THEY ARE SO EXTREMELY RARE! I have never met a woman who was a Sr. or a Jr. or a III, but I have met many, many, MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY men who were Sr./Jr./III and even IV/V/etc. May this equalize in the future, one way or another. If you were to tell me that you planned to have more children, and that of course the two of you also planned to name your first daughter entirely after yourself and make her a Jr., including giving her your birth surname which you had also retained, I would feel VERY DIFFERENTLY about this plan to name your first son entirely after your husband and his father.

This little rant isn’t against honor names in general: I am VERY KEEN on honor names. But I am opposed to what happens when an unequal tradition gets so absorbed into society that we don’t question it or notice how unequal it is anymore. It IS WEIRD to have something that’s considered very normal to do with father’s/men’s names, but not with mother’s/women’s names. It IS WEIRD to allow one parent’s side of the family to have naming rights that interfere with one or both parents’ preferences. It IS WORTH EVALUATING what benefit we are getting when we give a child a name they won’t be using, and whether that benefit is actually worth something to us or whether we’re so steeped in the tradition that we just feel it somehow SHOULD be worth something to us. It is WORTH EVALUATING whether we are giving our child something we think they will WANT, or if we are just passing down another generation’s worth of burden and obligation.

Do you WANT to give him this name? Do you both love it, and do you both actively want to use it? Or are you feeling pressured to use it so that you won’t break the tradition? If you are feeling pressured, I encourage you to reflect on the exponential increase of that pressure with each generation; I encourage you to spare the future generations while the pressure is still relatively low. If future generations are not pleased to be spared, they are 100% free to start it up again: they can even legitimately use the suffix III! But I think it is worth noticing how few people DO restart a broken tradition. My guess is that the feeling is nearly always INTENSE RELIEF that the tradition was broken before it was their turn to make the decision to keep it or break it.

If you wish to break the tradition more gently, give your son one of your husband’s names as a middle name, and/or an honor name from your side of the family if your son will already have your husband’s surname. Perhaps the same initials as your husband’s name, but with different honor names from your side of the family; or perhaps variants of your husband’s names in swapped order (Michael David becomes Davis Micah, for example). This communicates that you DO want to honor family, but perhaps not to honor the same person over and over and over again, generation after generation without ceasing.

…Where were we? Yes, if you decide to name your child after your husband and your husband’s father, I think Tripp or Trice or Trey will make a perfectly acceptable nickname, and that the child will not find it gets in the way of his success.

We can’t answer the question of whether he will feel as if he has his own identity; it depends on how much of his identity comes from his name. Presumably he will feel as if he has his own identity, but not as if he has his own name. Perhaps like some of the other men I have known, he will get extremely focused on his little suffix, and will get clutchy and possessive about it because it will be the part of his name that will feel like HIS.

I love Emmett and Reid from your list. We had Charlie on our finalist list for Henry. I wonder if you’d like Reeve or Rhys.

Reid and Charlie makes me think of Rory and Riley.

Emmett makes me think of Everett and Elliot. Grey and Reid make me think of Grant. Lee reminds me of Leo which makes me think of Milo which makes me think of Miles which makes me think of Nolan which makes me think of Simon.

Harrison makes me think of Harris and Davis, which along with Lee make me think of Louis, which makes me think of Wesley, which along with Walker and Cooper makes me think of Wilson and Warren.

I’m reluctant to think of any more options, because now I am eager to get my hands on your family tree and go hunting for candidates. Perhaps your own family surname, if that has been supplanted by your husband’s family surname? Perhaps a family surname from an earlier generation? Perhaps one of your father’s names, so that there is one name from each grandfather, which makes a bit of a point about how difficult it is to argue that the child should instead have been named for only one grandfather?

Hi Swistle!

You and your readers helped us name our son in 2017 {Baby Boy Sepas – Brother to Evelyn}.

After 3 years of fertility struggles, 2 miscarriages, and 5 failed rounds of fertility treatments, I am due this Fall with the sweetest surprise! I find it odd that I’ve been trying for 3 years for this babe, yet am struggling so much to find a name for him or her! We are not finding out the gender.

My name is Bridgett, my husband is Evan, and we have two children – Evelyn Claire and Luke Thomas. Our last name is Sepas with a silent T in the front, pronounced See-pas.

I am finding that I am drawn to surnames as first names this time. In my mind, I have decided on a name if it’s a boy – Baker Lawrence. Lawrence was my beloved Grandpa’s name. I just can’t fully commit because I don’t know if it goes with the sibling names, and it’s definitely more unique than the sibling names. Other names we like are Reid, Baylor, Wade, and Rowan. Rowan is still my favorite name (it was my favorite when my son was born 5 years ago as well), but we have since had a close family member use a very similar name, so I don’t know that I want to use it now. I also love other surnames like Hayes, Brooks, or Davis, but don’t like the ending “s” with the starting “s” of our last name.

My real struggle comes with names for a girl. I am drawn to surnames for a girl too, but so many that I like also end in “s” – Ellis, Collins, Hollis – and it just doesn’t flow with the last name. Our short list includes Harper, Emelia, and Hallie. We will use Wren as a middle name for a girl – taken from the middle of Lawrence – to still honor my Grandpa. Any other girl suggestions that are in my style? Or maybe this style doesn’t go at all with the siblings and I need to figure out my actual style?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for considering!

Something I think you’ve got going for you here is that Evelyn and Luke are already adjacent/compatible styles rather than a matched style. This gives you more room to add a third adjacent style, without it being as surprising a style shift as it would be if you had two of the same style and then changed course.

Baker is quite a different style from Luke; the matched K-sound helps to bring them a little closer together, I think, but you’re right that it’s a bit of a jump, and Baker Sepas feels a little awkward. But I further think that by the time parents get to the third child, no one can blame them for branching out a little. And since Luke was a family name, that gives an easy explanation for why you might change styles. Not that you have to explain yourself. I’m just working through it for you the way I have to work through it for myself: i.e., imagining I have been called before The Naming Board and must justify my decision.

My own vote from the boy name list is Reid. Evelyn, Luke, and Reid.

For a girl name, I think the style shift is more readily accommodated because the name Evelyn used to be a prep-school boy name. Sure, NOW it’s used almost exclusively for girls and doesn’t feel particularly preppy—but our multigenerational hive mind can still tap into that old feeling where Ashley and Evelyn were chums at their all-male boarding school. Here are some surname names (or surname-sounding names) I think might work in the sibling group and with the surname:

Ainsley; Ainsley Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Ainsley
Aubrey; Aubrey Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Aubrey
Brennan; Brennan Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Brennan
Darby; Darby Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Darby
Darcy; Darcy Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Darcy
Delaney; Delaney Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Delaney
Hadley; Hadley Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Hadley (similar in sound to Hallie)
Hillary; Hillary Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Hillary (I know it’s too soon but it’s so perfect)
Holland; Holland Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Holland (similar to Hollis but no -s)
Kerrigan; Kerrigan Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Kerrigan
Lane; Lane Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Lane (maybe too much)
Leighton; Leighton Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Leighton
Linden; Linden Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Linden (maybe too much)
Mallory; Mallory Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Mallory
Meredith; Meredith Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Meredith
Merritt; Merritt Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Merritt
Sloane; Sloane Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Sloane
Winslow; Winslow Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Winslow

I wanted to suggest Ellison (Ellis but doesn’t end in -s!) but it seems too close to Evelyn.

Or I am interested in your willingness to change Lawrence to Wren to honor your grandfather, and I wonder if Florence (Lawrence-with-an-F) would also feel like an honor name? If so, this sibling set makes me want to faint with love: Evelyn, Luke, and Florence. Granted, Florence Sepas requires some effort to say, and I agree it’s not ideal—but FLORENCE.

Or of course there is the name Lauren, which is even more obvious a connection. Lauren Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Lauren. I remember there was a fairly famous (that is, I know about it despite not watching soap operas) “Luke and Laura” plot on a soap opera in the 1980s, and it went on for years; I don’t know if that’s something that needs to interfere with names for this current generation of babies, but it’s nice to consider such things ahead of time rather than afterward. Lauren could still work as a middle name.

Or I think Lawrence makes a nice middle name for a girl, if Wren doesn’t end up working with the first name you like best. It’s so close to Lauren and Florence, and the current generation of boys doesn’t seem to be using it much.

More options that came to mind even though they’re nothing like what you said you were looking for:

Claire; Claire Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Claire
Claudia; Claudia Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Claudia
Fiona; Fiona Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Fiona
Harriet; Harriet Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Harriet
Hazel; Hazel Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Hazel (similar in sound to Hayes)
Lydia; Lydia Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Lydia
Margo; Margo Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Margo
Pearl; Pearl Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Pearl
Polly; Polly Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Polly
Rosemary; Rosemary Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Rosemary
Veronica; Veronica Sepas; Evelyn, Luke, and Veronica