Update (and photo) on Baby Girl or Boy Ke@ting, Sibling to Aurelia (Goldie): Coordinate with Sister’s Name or Sister’s Nickname?

Update on Baby Girl Rahtickah, Sister to Beckett

Dear Swistle,

As the arrival of our second baby draws nearer and nearer (any day now), my wife and I are scrambling to assemble a shortlist of names that we feel certain about. We don’t know the sex of this child, but are struggling more with girls’ names than with boys’. The kid’s last name starts with W and rhymes with foreign.

This is a hail mary. Here’s where we’re at.

Our first kid is Jonah Robert. Jonah because we loved it, an established but not-too-popular boy’s name with some softness to it. Robert for my wife’s grandfather. Few pronunciation or spelling issues.

This time around, our shortlist of agreed-upon boy names includes Ezra and Elias (nn Eli). Silas might also be hovering at the margins. I also love Levi (Lee-Vi), though my wife’s colleague has a Levi (Leh-Vee) and it feels too redundant in her circle. Middle names are a little more up in the air, with me feeling Wilder (a tribute to our love of the outdoors) or James (my maternal grandfather), though we feel like James doesn’t work with Elias, and my wife is a little lukewarm on Wilder all around. I also worry a little about the repetitive – “a” sound at the end of Jonah and Ezra, but maybe that’s not something to lose sleep over. Thoughts?

For girls, we’re basically nowhere. We both dislike frilly names, and I am especially sensitive to the popularity of “elle”, “ellie” sounds and super trendy names (Harper, Avery – though I like them, stylistically). The closest thing we have to a girl’s name is Willa James (William is the patrilineal name passed down in my family and I get a little thrill from stealing it for a girl). Our only hesitation on this one is with the alliteration, Willa W., and it also has the potential problem of the repetitive “a” sound at the end: Jonah and Willa.

If it were up to me alone, I would name a girl Paige or Sylvie, but neither appeal to my wife. I also love Corinne, but it rhymes with our last name. no go. We also like Georgia, but Jonah and Georgia feel too close to the same name. Naomi is also hovering as a possibility, but it just doesn’t feel like “the one” to me.

On my list, but nixed by my wife are:
Sarai,
Blythe,
Merritt,
Heather,
Ainsley,
Raleigh

I would happily use a more-popular, but traditionally male name for a girl: Henry, Brett, Ezra, Chase, Walker – with the right middle name (I love Walker Leigh). We both like Elliot for a girl, but know that it would be shortened to Ellie.

My wife is all-in-all pretty ambivalent about girl’s names. She can’t find many (any) that she likes. Her “favorites” if you can call them that, have been the too-popular, but semi androgynous Harper, Avery-type.

It feels a little like the field is wide open, but hopefully this has given a little bit of insight to our style and preferences. Maybe you and your readers have a winner up your sleeves?

With hope
Meg.

Especially when things are down to the wire, I like to be able to swoop in with strong opinions: “This not that!” “That not this!” “I KNOW THE VERY NAME YOU SHOULD USE!” But I’m not feeling strong opinions here. I will give my mild opinions anyway.

I think two names ending in the -a sound (Jonah and Ezra or Jonah and Willa) is fine; if I had several favorite names and couldn’t decide among them, the matched ending would knock one of them down a point for me—but it wouldn’t knock anything out of the running. I think Elias James sounds fine, and that an honor name is more important than a perfect sound—especially when it’s so nicely equivalent to your first child’s honor name. I agree about the similarity of Jonah and Georgia: visually they’re quite different, but when I say them together I hear how similar they are. I think the alliteration of Willa W. might be something I’d avoid or might be great (and same initials as Wonder Woman!); but it doesn’t matter if I think it’s great, if you think it’s meh. I do really like the idea of taking a William naming tradition and making it a Willa (or a Willemina/Wilhelmina), and I also like the name itself with your preferences: not frilly, not trendy.

I’m not crazy about Willa James: the sound is good, but “using traditionally male names as girl middle names” is a trend right now, and I find I’m already weary of it. I’m not sure what message it sends, when there is no equivalent trend for using traditionally female names as boy middle names. (But perhaps you DO know what message it sends, and it’s a message you like. As I say, my opinions here are mild.) Also, since you would also be naming her after the men in your family with the name Willa, it feels as if “honoring the men” has been fully covered. Have either of you a grandmother you’d like to honor? Or if using Willa already satisfies the wish for a family name, perhaps the middle name could be used as a place for a name you both love but it felt too trendy for a first name. I think Avery and Harper in the middle name position can have a fresher, more surnamey sound: they suddenly sound like family names instead of Top 20 Popular Choices.

I think the problem with finding a girl name is that you have your tastes, and you have your preferences, and they are opposed: your preference is to avoid your tastes. You both like Harper and Avery and Elliot, but you don’t want to use names like those. There are at least three good options here:

1. Come to terms with your tastes, and use the names you like best without worrying about their trendiness/popularity.

2. Trade how much you like the name for a reduction in trendiness/popularity. Weigh it on the scale, and decide you are willing to choose a name you don’t like as much, in order to meet your preferences. This works best if you KNOW you are doing it: otherwise you can get stuck in the “How about non-trendy name X?”/”But I don’t like it as much as Avery/Harper/Elliot”/”But those don’t meet our preferences” cycle. You would know going into it that you wouldn’t like the name as much, so you’d be looking for the name you like most among that names that DO meet your preferences.

3. Find names that are in the style of Harper/Avery/Elliot, but less popular. The style itself will still be in fashion, but popularity can make the trendiness more or less apparent. (There is a risk, however, that others will also find those less-popular choices and then those names will become increasingly common.)

With a brother named Jonah, I’d be looking for more hip biblical names for boys, as you’ve done: Ezra, Elias, and Silas are all great choices. Interestingly, biblical names do not seem to have come similarly into style for girls. I think it’s that there are way fewer of them to chose from, and many of them don’t have that biblical SOUND the way Jonah and Ezra do. Still, I will pick through the list in The Baby Name Wizard and see what we’ve got (note: I will not be checking any of these names for their stories, to make sure they’re GOOD stories).

Claudia
Delilah
Esther
Judith
Junia
Lois
Lydia
Martha
Miriam
Naomi
Phoebe
Priscilla
Ruth

I love love love the name Esther, and I think it’s great with Jonah. Jonah and Esther.

Naomi was already on your lists, and I love that name too. I think it’s so underused. Jonah and Naomi.

Claudia is a name I would have considered for my daughter, except that it is the name of Paul’s high school girlfriend. Jonah and Claudia. Both end in the -a sound, but the extra syllable of Claudia helps separate the sounds.

I’ve liked the name Judith better ever since someone pointed out the nickname Jude. Jonah and Judith; Jonah and Jude. But if you’re planning to have more children, I wouldn’t do this if it would make you feel trapped into using all J names.

I would love to look at a class list and see a Lois. Jonah and Lois. I like the repeated long-O sound.

Ruth sounds like the name of a woman who gets things done. Jonah and Ruth.

And I love Lydia, especially with your surname. Jonah and Lydia. (Another -a ending.)

Speaking of the names Ruth and Lydia, I am also interested in Solid Vintage Revival names for you—names like Sylvie and Georgia from your list. I think they sound especially wonderful with your surname.

Agatha
Camilla
Cordelia
Eloise
Esther
Frances
Louisa
Lydia
Margaret
Marilla
Martha
Matilda
Ruth
Sylvia

Options more along the lines of Harper/Avery/Elliot:

Aubrey
Beckett
Callister
Campbell
Carys
Casey
Darcy
Delaney
Emberley
Emlyn
Everly
Finley
Hollis
Jennings
Kaye
Keaton
Lane
Larkin
Leigh
Miller
Mirren
Reese
Rory
Teagan
Sloane
Sterling
Waverly
Winifred
Winslow

Some of these are not to my own tastes with the name Jonah. Jonah and Callister, for example, or Jonah and Sterling. I leave them in anyway, because parents are on a spectrum of how much they want sibling names to coordinate, and you may be on the other end of the spectrum from me. Plus, it’s common for parents to have a different naming style for girls than for boys.

Lastly, I want to mention that it’s possible that there IS no girl name you will both love and feel strongly about. I had to come to terms with that for boy names: I had a ton of girl names I felt in love with, but for boy names I ended up looking for names that felt Satisfying and Good, and I didn’t look for Strong Certain Love Feelings because I just didn’t HAVE any.

We are expecting our first baby July 2018 and it’s a girl! So we need to decide on a name sooner than later. My husband’s last name is Roszell (Rose-Zell). We love the names: Isla (eye-lah) and Emma.

Other names on our list: Alina, Mila, Elle, Rosie, and Sophia. We can’t use Elle because it will rhyme with her last name. Same goes with Rose/Rosie. It just doesn’t sound right with Roszell. I think Alina is beautiful, but husband doesn’t care for it. I like Sophia but I’m not in love with it. It just feels too common and I don’t want her to be called Sophie.

We have nothing for Emma as a middle name. For Isla we have Isla Josephine. We love how sweet and bohemian Isla Josephine feels and would like a middle name that makes Emma feel the same way. Emma is such a beautiful name and we love that it is easy to pronounce. I’m just worried that it’s too common. We don’t like “filler” middle names like Grace or Marie. They’re pretty, but way too common. We also love how Emma can have a nickname. There really isn’t one for Isla.

As you have probably noticed we like names that end with an A sound. So we don’t really want a middle name with an A sound since it doesn’t seem to flow as well.

If we were having a boy he would have been Oliver Grey Roszell.

Hopefully I’ve given you enough information for you to send recommendations!

I think the upside of using a popular name is that you know so many people will agree: Emma IS a beautiful name. I am not sure if it will be too common for you or not. According to the Social Security Administration, it’s been in the Top Ten since 2002; for the past three years, it’s been in the number one spot as the very most popular girls’ name in the United States. To get an idea of what those rankings mean, let’s look at numbers. Here are the number of new baby girls named Emma born each year for the past five years we have data for:

2012: 20,922
2013: 20,921
2014: 20,912
2015: 20,415
2016: 19,414

Over one hundred thousand new baby girls named Emma, just in the last five years. In 2016, the name was used for just over 1% of all new baby girls.

But, as I periodically like to remind everyone, that’s approximately 1/4th the rate the name Jennifer was used in its prime, approximately 1/3rd the rate of peak Jessica. After those names, it was as if the country made a decision not to let that happen anymore: the next queen, Emily, only got as high as 1.3% usage; Isabella and Sophia only as high as 1.1%. I’m interested to see if this continues: if in the next decade our top names go down to .9%, or .8%, or even lower.

Where were we? Oh yes: whether Emma will be too common for you. At 1% usage, assuming a class size of 30 children of which 15 are girls, there is currently a national average of one Emma per six to seven classrooms. That won’t prevent funny little pockets of Emmas: she could have one year with two other Emmas in the room, as my son William did even though the year he was born the usage for his actual name (not William) was .5% and so had a national average of one per thirteen classrooms. But I don’t consider duplicates a huge problem: the three Williams are in high school now and still greet each other in the halls with “Hi, William S.!” and “Hi, William B.!” and “Hi, William T.!”

Because this is your first child, you may or may not have yet had contact with a lot of other children. I think that’s when a name’s usage becomes much more vivid for parents: you get the new daycare directory, or your child is talking about other kids at recess, and that’s when you find out for sure how much it bugs you to have so many other Emmas. Until that time, it’s a matter of imagining it and making guesses. Do you feel as if it would bother you if she had another Emma in her classroom? Would you guess that it would bother you if two kids in her social circle were named Emma? Do you think it bother you (as it did bother me, when it happened with William) if, at kindergarten registration, the registrar said, “Emma—oh, we’ve gotten a lot of those!” And the name has been quite common for a couple of decades now, so there will be Emmas in every grade: every parent you encounter will know Emmas already; many children you encounter will have siblings named Emma.

We haven’t even touched on the name Isla yet. The first time it hit the Top 1000 was 2008, when it appeared at #623. Here’s what it’s been doing since:

2009: #345
2010: #297
2011: #268
2012: #229
2013: #167
2014: #150
2015: #141
2016: #126

It’s hard to say how much further it will rise, but it’s something to be aware of. Right now it’s in a range I consider perfect (and can continue rising for awhile and still be in this range): used often enough to be familiar, not often enough for people to be tired of it.

I think Isla Josephine is gorgeous. Let’s see if we can find a middle name for Emma that gives you a similar feeling. Because the name Emma is so common, it’s a challenge to make it sound Bohemian; I think I would look for something quite uncommon for the middle name, to average things out. But I’d also look for names similar to Josephine—and in fact, I’m going to include Josephine. I’m also going to include a lot of names with A-sounds, even though you specifically mentioned you don’t think it sounds nice; I LOVE multiple A-sounds in a name (especially when two names in a row both end in -a), and also I didn’t notice that preference until I’d already made the list—but let’s pretend I DID notice and am now lightly sowing the list with pro-A-sound propaganda.

Emma Adelaide Roszell (EAR)
Emma Antonia Roszell (EAR)
Emma Azalea Roszell (EAR)
Emma Beatrix Roszell (EBR)
Emma Celeste Roszell (ECR)
Emma Clarity Roszell (ECR)
Emma Claudia Roszell (ECR)
Emma Cordelia Roszell (ECR)
Emma Flannery Roszell (EFR)
Emma Frances Roszell (EFR)
Emma Gwendolyn Roszell (EGR)
Emma Hermione Roszell (EHR)
Emma Josephine Roszell (EJR)
Emma Katherine Roszell (EKR)
Emma Lavender Roszell (ELR)
Emma Magnolia Roszell (EMR)
Emma Marguerite Roszell (EMR)
Emma Marigold Roszell (EMR)
Emma Minerva Roszell (EMR)
Emma Octavia Roszell (EOR)
Emma Persephone Roszell (EPR)
Emma Priscilla Roszell (EPR)
Emma Ramona Roszell (ERR)
Emma Sabrina Roszell (ESR)
Emma Simone Roszell (ESR)
Emma Spring Roszell (ESR)
Emma Sylvia Roszell (ESR)
Emma Valentine Roszell (EVR)
Emma Victoria Roszell (EVR)
Emma Waverly Roszell (EWR)

Were there any names you really liked, but considered too out-there to use as a first name? Those might be great here. Or since the child will have your husband’s surname, perhaps you could have more input on the middle name: Emma Alina Roszell.

I’ve been trying to think of more first name candidates, but not much is coming to mind. Possibly Emmeline? It gives you the sound of Emma, but in a less common form. But if you’d like to use Isla for a future potential sister, then I like Emmeline less: Emmeline and Isla is tongue-tangling for me.

Eliza was another one I thought of (I like the repeated Z-sound with the surname), but not if you’d also like to use Isla. Eliza is almost a combination of Emma and Isla.

Or Genevieve. Genevieve Roszell. Maybe Genevieve and Isla later on. Yes, I like that.

Perhaps something like Clara? It has the sweetness of Emma. Clara Roszell. I don’t like it very much with Isla.

Molly, too, has the sweetness of Emma. Molly Roszell. But again, I’m not fond of it with Isla, if you wanted to keep that name for a future girl.

I like Polly a little better with Isla, I think because Polly has an edgier/fresher sound. Polly Roszell. I like the repeated double-L.

Or Sally: same thing about it being a little edgier/fresher, though I still don’t think I’d pair it with Isla. Sally Roszell.

I’m finding Isla difficult to work with as a sibling name, as you can see, and that may be something to look into ahead of time: if you imagine using the name Isla, can you think of other girl names you like with it? And I am looking forward to ideas from commenters on this.

I think actually what it’s bringing to light is that Emma and Isla are different styles: Emma goes with sweet friendly names such as Clara and Molly, and with other popular girl names such as Sophia and Olivia. Isla goes with…I’m not sure, but I’m thinking more along the lines of Lorelei and Carys and Imogen. With a first baby, I like to advise thinking ahead to future siblings for this very reason: it’s easy to accidentally use a name for the first baby that’s an outlier for the parents’ more usual style. Do you feel as if you’re more of an Emma, Clara, Sophia kind of family, or more of an Isla, Cleo, Fiona kind of family?

Update on Baby Boy or Girl Carrot-with-an-M, Sibling to Avila

Update on Baby Girl Tuber

Update (and photos) on Baby Twin Girls Lund

Hi, I hope you can help us with a baby name dilemma having to do with pronunciation!

I am from the U.S.A. and my husband is from South America. He suggested the name “Giselle” for our coming baby girl. I had become familiar with this name from time living in South America and also loved it. In South America it is pronounced “Ji Sel” which I think is beautiful and to me is the most intuitive pronunciation of the way the name is spelled. Here is the dilemma: After researching a bit about the name, I found that the most common pronunciation in the U.S.A. is “Jiz Zel” which I find really unattractive being that it reminds lots of people of the African animal and even worse the association of the first syllable of the name to the vulgar slang word “jizz”. So there is a sector of the U.S. population who would pronounce Giselle “Ji Sel” (Hispanics and I understand French Canadians also pronounce it this way) but most Americans pronounce it Jiz Zel. Could I dare to hope that our daughter could be called “Ji Sel” by others or would she be known and called “Jiz Zel” by most people in the U.S.? This would be so disappointing but should I forget Giselle and look for another name?

I pronounce it somewhere in between: I say it with a Z sound instead of a soft S, but more like jih-ZELL, with the Z attached to the second syllable, so that I never made a connection to the vulgar slang until reading this letter. I do associate the name with gazelles, but it’s a positive association: beauty, grace, cute ears, etc.

Wikipedia mentions only the Ji-zell pronunciation, but doesn’t even have it with emphasis or phonetic marks so I’m not sure if that counts as a complete entry. Forvo gives two different versions, one French and one English, both pronounced with the Z-sound. Inogolo also includes two: jih-ZELL and zhee-SELL. The Baby Name Bible says it is either GEE-zah-lah or jiz-ELLE. The Baby Name Wizard says it is ji-ZEHL. It is looking to me as if the correct pronunciation in the U.S. uses the Z sound.

I knew a Lesley in high school who wanted her name pronounced with a soft S instead of a Z, and she had at best mixed success. Her struggle was complicated by people not really hearing/noticing the difference. I do think you could get the people closest to you to use the soft S—but if you’ll be living in the U.S., and if you hate the Z pronunciation and it’s going to drive you crazy to hear it, I think you’d be happier choosing another name. I wonder if you’d like Giselle in the middle-name position, so you can still have the name but without hearing it pronounced very often?

Update (and photo) on Baby Boy Sepas, Brother to Evelyn

Hi Swistle,

You know how sometimes you read something and you say I would never do that? Well, I’m having one of those moments.

I have two little boys that go by their nicknames, Jack and Ned. Their given names are John and Edward, respectively. Having two boys were traditional names with short spunky nicknames, I now have the feeling that I *must* find a third name that fits that trend. It is also making finding a name challenging because a name that goes with Jack and Ned doesn’t necessarily go with John and Edward or vice versa.

The only true requirement is I would really prefer not to repeat an initial. Because Ned has two depending on your point of view, I am willing to bend for an E or an N, but if I can find a distinct initial that would be preferred.

Names hubby and I have talked about:

Christopher nn Kit-not too fond of Kit. Ned and Jack sound like they could be childhood to old man nn, but Kit sounds very juvenile. I pointed out Kit Harrington from Game of Thrones, to which he responded so now it’ll be popular. Neither one of us is feeling Toph as a nn.

Winston nn Wynn-I am really liking Wynn but not sure how I feel about Winston. Are there any other names that Wynn could be a nickname for?

Donovan nn Van or Don-meh

Nicholas nn Cole-Does it seem like we’re reaching?

Gage-I just discovered this name last night and I’ve latched onto it for some reason. I don’t like it with the given names for the boys though. Plus my husband has a negative memory associated with it, and it’s now on the un-usable list.

Colin
Grant
Peter
Mitchell
Alec
Taran

I like the names Rhett and Reed, but our last name begins with R so that seems like a lot of R.

Names that we cannot use for one reason or another:
Martin
Gregory
Marcus
Thomas
James
Robert
Gavin
Landen
Keaton
Benjamin

Jack was such as obvious choice for me that I never considered any other name (he was named after my grandfather). Ned took a little while longer, because I find choosing boys names very challenging!

I’m not too worried about naming style matching any girls that we hopefully have.

Thanks!

Because I generally think it’s less important for nicknames to coordinate, I would start with the given names. With John and Edward, I wouldn’t have gone to any of the names on your list except for maybe Peter—which may mean I’m barking up the wrong tree, but let’s go with it for the moment. I would be looking at names more like Thomas, James, and Robert from your Can’t Use list, and also:

Charles; John, Edward, and Charles; Jack, Ned, and Charlie
George; John, Edward, and George; Jack, Ned, and Georgie
Henry; John, Edward, and Henry; Jack, Ned, and Hank
Louis; John, Edward, and Louis; Jack, Ned, and Lou
William; John, Edward, and William; Jack, Ned, and Will

And maybe Andrew/Andy/Drew and Daniel/Dan and Philip/Phil and David/Dave, I’m not sure. I had Frederick on the list, but then realized Fred rhymes with Ned.

The nickname for George is not really what you’re looking for, but I think the beauty of George is that it goes both with the given names and the nicknames: John, Edward, and George; Jack, Ned, and George. Henry could serve the same purpose: John, Edward, and Henry; Jack, Ned, and Henry. If you’re planning more children, you may find yourself grateful for a name that gracefully breaks the pattern like that, leaving you open to a much wider list next time.

And in fact, unless you have a couple of name/nickname combinations you love enough to use, I would advise deliberately breaking the pattern at this point, while it’s still relatively easy. Two names with something in common is not a pattern, but three names in a row is, and the pressure increases exponentially with each additional name. My first two boys have names with the same number of letters and syllables and same country of origin, followed by middle names after matching relatives on the two sides of the family; I’m so extremely grateful to my past self for giving up on that (after a considerable struggle) for the third boy. At this point, no one would notice that the first two “match.” It felt during the pregnancy as if it mattered tremendously, but now it feels as if it doesn’t matter at all—and it meant I chose names I really wanted for the third and fourth boys.

What would you choose if you weren’t looking for a coordinated name/nickname to add to the sibling set? I suggest looking through the name book again, but this time make a list with no thought for how the names go with the brothers’ names, just to see what kind of names you come up with.