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Baby Girl or Boy Potter, Sibling to William, Alice, and Elle

Hi !!!

I would LOVE your help!!

We have 3 kids — will use their real names. William James, Alice Ann, and Elle Caroline.

We have a new baby on the way (will be 4 1/2 years younger than our youngest) and I’m stumped!

I’d love a girl name with an ‘L’ in it somewhere — that is vague but my only criteria.

For a boy, not sure! Henry, Charlie, Jack, Max all seem to go with William but I don’t love those at all. Any ideas? I wish I had more criteria but I am out of the baby name game as this was a surprise baby and I’d quit thinking about names 4 years ago after we named Elle.

With much appreciation,

Mary

 

I am interested in the “L” preference for a girl. If it were for either a boy or girl, I would assume it was because all three children have dominant L sounds in their names. But only for girl, especially when one girl is actually named L/Elle, makes me wonder if there is a story here.

Potter is a challenging surname, as I know you know. James would be out even if it weren’t already another child’s middle name, and Lily is out. I would avoid Henry as being too close to Harry. It’s been awhile since I read the books, so I am counting on commenters to point out any similar conflicts with any names I suggest. (And just overall to double-check me: I am apparently very distracted, and only in proof-reading realized I had suggested Willa without noticing it was kind of an issue with a brother named WILLIAM.) Jack and Max seem to me to fit better with Liam than with William. Charles/Charlie is somewhat Royal Family with William, but not dealbreakingly so, I don’t think, and it’s my favorite of the listed options.

What do you think of the name John? I think it is underused. It claims to be #27 in the U.S. in 2018, and yet none of my kids have anyone named John in any of their classes. They are deluged in Jacks, so that is probably some of the Johns; the rest must be Jrs/IIIs/IVs going by other nicknames—or be living in different areas of the country. William, Alice, Elle, and John.

Or George? Again, a little Royal, but not dealbreakingly so. George Potter. William, Alice, Elle, and George.

Edward? Edward Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Edward.

Or Edmund. Edmund Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Edmund.

I like Calvin in this sibling group. Calvin Potter; William, Alice, Elle, Calvin.

Or Nolan? Nolan Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Nolan.

Or Frederick. Frederick Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Frederick.

Or Franklin. Franklin Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Franklin.

Benjamin. Benjamin Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Benjamin.

Ian. Ian Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Ian.

 

For a girl, we already have Al- and El-, and that makes things a little tricky.

Charlotte has that same smack of Royalty, but again, not dealbreakingly for me. Charlotte Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Charlotte.

Molly feels too Weasley, but maybe Sally? Sally Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Sally. No, that feels too similar to Alice.

Maybe Lucy? Lucy Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Lucy. But Lucy and Alice have so many sounds in common.

Willa is pretty, but too similar to Elle, and of course also to William. Stella is too similar to Elle. Lydia is too similar to Lily. Calla is too similar to Alice AND too similar to Elle, and so is Cecily. Jillian is too similar to William.

Maybe Isla? Isla Potter. William, Alice, Elle, and Isla. It’s very similar to the other names, but it’s similar to ALL the other names in a way that might tie everyone together.

Or Celeste. Celeste Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Celeste. I don’t like the way it has all of the sound of the name Elle in it.

Or Louise. Louise Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Louise.

Delia? Delia Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Delia. I encountered this name recently in a waiting-room situation and had a very favorable reaction to it.

Camille? Camille Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Camille. It makes me feel a little uncomfortable that everyone gets double-Ls except Alice, but that is the kind of thing I like to try to make myself ignore. (Still, I admit I’d lean toward a one-L choice for this baby.)

Olivia. Olivia Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Olivia.

Natalie. Natalie Potter; William, Alice, Elle, and Natalie.

I wanted to suggest Claire, which I think would be close to perfect—except I think it’s about one heartbeat to Clairey Potter and I’m already tired of that.

Baby Girl Henon, Sister to Audrey, Rosalie (Rosie), and Emily

Hi! I am 39 weeks with my third daughter, but somehow just came across your site and love it. I have an Audrey and a Rosalie (family name, goes by Rosie). I’m attracted to the more popular names although I wish I was more unique. Our top choices now are Amelia, Charlotte, Violet, and Sophie. Last name Henon (Hen-un). I should mention I have an angel baby, Emily, whom I lost oct 2018 at 22+2. The ending “y” sound isn’t a must for me, but has just been the names we have chosen. My top choice is violet, but am nervous of having a Rosie and violet because both are flowers and I don’t want to sound like a weirdo. I’m open to other name suggestions… as well as your thoughts on our top names and the “flower dilemma”. Thank you

 

If you had a daughter named Rose, I think I would be inclined against the name Violet, not only because it’s themey but because then there are two children participating in the theme and the rest not, and my personal preference would be to avoid that. Even if you had a Rosalie going mostly by the nickname Rose, I might feel disinclined toward Violet. But the nickname Rosie seems fine to me with Violet.

Another reason to lean toward the name Violet is that you wish you preferred less-popular names. Violet, at #43 in 2018 according to the Social Security Administration (the 2019 numbers aren’t expected until May), is the the second-least common of the group of finalists: Amelia and Charlotte are both in the Top 10, and Sophie is #98—but the variation Sophia is also Top 10, which can increase the feeling of popularity as well as the actual number of children going by Sophie.

Name perceptions can be very subjective, but for me the name Amelia is too close to the name Emily and I would take it off the list.

I think either Charlotte (Charlie/Lottie) or Sophie would go very nicely in this sibling set. I have a slight preference for the way Sophie sounds with your surname, but not a strong preference at all. Something about the T sound at the end of Violet/Charlotte just hits a slight snag for me as it heads into Henon, but not enough to be a dealbreaker.

 

Let’s have a poll just because we can, and because polls are fun: Twitter poll [Poll ended; see results below:]

Baby Boy McIntire

Greetings, Swistle:

My husband and I are expecting a boy towards the end of February. We plan to have only one child.

We briefly discussed names before we found out the gender at 12 weeks but we both had initially agreed on Vesper or Vespera for a girl. Middle name for a boy or girl would be an honor name.

Since then, we have been lost. I have become obsessed with finding the “perfect” name and he finds a name he likes, attaches to it for a few weeks, and then gets bored with it. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and he wants to just choose a name when the little guy is here but I find the idea daunting and think it’s important to at least have a short list of names.

My name is a misspelled variation of a trendy 80s girl name. His name is a nickname variation of a classic boys name. Both begin with A and last name is McIntire. Neither of us want anything remotely common, but I prefer something still established and “usable” with a nickname variation that’s not too weird for a resume and he ventures into names that I consider not usable at all. We are in the United States and my ancestry is mostly Scottish, Irish and English while his is mostly Scottish, German and Spanish.

Current front-runners are Lucian/Lucan or Finan/Finnan. Lucian is derived from Latin, Lucan and Finan are Gaelic. My hesitation is whether they are too weird and whether the LO will be swimming in a sea of Finn’s in a few years. Lucas is classic but it seems Finn is trendy.

Other names that have not been completely vetoed are Killian/Cillian and Cassian. His favorites are Aquila, Quill, Achilles and Acacius. I also like Caius, Eamon, Cormac, Leander and Malakai but most don’t really work with our last name. My parents have resorted to calling the baby Jack and I love the name but it is way too popular for my taste and also doesn’t work with our last name.

Please help us. I will be happy to send an update if this child ever has a name.

Kind regards,

 

I was very amused by the subject line of your email (“An Impossible Couple Seeks a Boy Name”) and hope this post will not be far too late to help.

There is a certain joy in choosing a baby name without taking sibling names into account, and I am feeling that joy here. I think you have a lot of good/cool choices to work with.

I think the most difficult thing about naming the first child is really CONCEPTUALIZING the baby as a person. This is one use for The Starbucks Test, which is where you take one of the names you’re considering for the baby, and say it to the barista as if it were your own. It helps to bridge that gap between names that are cool and fun to think about, and names that work for a real actual person living life and ordering coffee. I think this is the sort of thing that may assist a baby-namer of your husband’s variety: it’s one thing to suggest Achilles/Acacius when you’ve grown up as, say, a Matt, and quite another to say it with your own voice to someone who has to write it on a cup.

Which is not to imply I think Achilles/Acacius should be off the table. No: name variety is lovely and I am fresh from seeing many, many classroom valentines-exchange lists containing many surprising names. It’s more that I think it’s a good idea to go into such a choice with a firm grasp of the context in which the name will be used once it is off of the ideas list and onto the actual person. “Can you change Achilles’s diaper?” and “Acacius, how many times do I have to tell you to put the toilet seat down??” and “Dinnertime, Aquila!”

Here’s another exercise for getting names to click out of the theoretical: Go to a public place where there is a wide variety of people of a wide variety of ages/types (a mall is perfect, if you have one near you). Bring your name lists with you, and sit where you can see lots of people (near the food court is my favorite). One at a time, take a name from the list, and apply it to a bunch of people of various ages. “That baby’s name is Killian. That toddler’s name is Killian. His father’s name is Killian. That elderly man’s name is Killian. The custodian’s name is Killian. The clerk at the crepes stand is also named Killian.” Does the name WORK? Do you think, “Yeah, that fits a nice variety of people!”

I know you’ve heard me say this a million times before, but I strongly encourage shifting the goal away from perfection if at all possible. Especially when you are naming just one child, I think there can be a feeling almost as if there is One Best Name, and that this is your one chance to use it, and that you must find it. But there are lots and lots of names that would work well for any given baby, and the parents’ only real responsibility is to choose something the baby can later write on their homework and say to the barista and give to the receptionist when they arrive for their appointment. A name can be a delightful, meaningful, beautiful thing, but it is at its heart a PRACTICAL thing, and so as long as you are making a good faith effort to give him a good, useful name, everything is going to be fine.

Lucian, Lucan, Finan, Finnan, Finian—those all seem to me to fit the bill. It’s hard to predict which names will rise to the point where their popularity may cause you regret; at some point I think the only thing to do is pick your favorite and hope for the best.

If you wanted to add more contenders to the list (and perhaps at this late point that would be unhelpful), I notice a LOT of K/Q/hard-C and L sounds in your lists. I might skim one more time through the boy-name section of a baby name book, saying each one aloud briskly and scanning for those sounds. Aidric, Alec, Arlo, Brannock, Brecken, Broderick, Calder, Callan, Calvin, Clark, Declan, Kellan, Lachlan, etc.

Baby Names with Bird Nicknames

Hey Swistle, fun question for you. Sort of by happenstance, both our girls have historic names with bird nicknames. Katherine called Wren and Hilaria called Lark. (Okay, honestly it’s 30% full names, 20% Wren and Lark, 50% Doodle and Roo, from a lullaby I sing them.)

We are not currently expecting, but it struck me as a fun sort of lying-awake exercise: what other names have avian and/or natural nicknames?
I’d get particularly excited about something that led to the nickname Dove. Dora Verity? Paloma, I suppose. David!

B.

 

That IS a fun question, and a perfect one for a day when it feels as if there is some faint hope that spring may one day return to our midst.

I am fond of the names where the natural nickname Bertie can instead be Birdy/Birdie. I think it’s a lovely way to handle an honor name that may not quite have come back into style just yet (Roberta, Alberta). I think it also works as a nickname for Bernadette.

I have heard that that name Robin started as a nickname for the name Robert, and I haven’t been so charmed since I heard of Hodge as a nickname for Roger.

As I sit in the waiting room of a doctor’s office, I hear a receptionist named Avis saying her name again and again as she answers the phone, and I think about how uncommon her name is, especially considering how close it is to the much more common name Ava.

More bird (or similar nature-y) names/nicknames?

Baby Naming Issue: Are the Initials “DAB” an Issue?

Dear Swistle,

I try to pay attention to initials, and we are considering a name that would spell DAB. I don’t mind the fact that the word is a fairly innocuous verb, but I am more concerned that a Google search of the word brings up a page filled with references to marijuana, and the dance/picture pose fad. I am not highly into pop culture, so I am seeking input to see if this is something that will be commonly picked up on. Will the dance/picture fad be old enough by the time the baby is old enough for conversation that it won’t be something that comes to mind amongst their peers? Perhaps your readers could share opinions on this?

Thank you

 

My vote is that this is a non-issue. My own preference is to avoid initials spelling things when possible, and I’m familiar with the annoying dab pose (I had to look up the marijuana term), and this still feels like a big shrug to me if you love the name.

When I’m trying to figure out if a naming issue is a problem (like when initials spell something, or when the first name blends into the surname), what I do is think about what bad thing could happen as a result of the initials/blending; I can’t picture anything very bad happening here. What if in elementary school your child’s peers find out their initials, AND people are still dabbing, AND those little kids know more than I do about marijuana vocabulary? WHAT THEN?? Nothing important, is what. And that’s IF they find out the initials! And if there WAS a “What’s your middle name?”/”What are your initials?” trend (there was at my school, but to be fair I was the one who started it and I have always been more than normally interested in names), there would definitely be other kids with slightly odd/funny initials to take some of the heat.

I should have asked my kids before they went to school, but I’m imagining what they’d do if they found out a friend had the initials DAB. Elizabeth’s group of friends (9th graders) does some mild affectionate recurring name-related teasing, and here are some of the things she’s mentioned:

1) Occasionally calling someone a funny mispronunciation of their name, especially if it happened in a group experience (e.g., the substitute teacher mispronounced someone’s name, or someone once mistyped the name in a group chat)

2) Occasionally pretending a nickname is short for a different name/word (e.g., pretending to think Addy is short for Advertisement)

3) Occasionally using a nickname the person doesn’t use (e.g., calling an Elizabeth “Betsy” or “Liz” when she only goes by Elizabeth)

4) Occasionally calling someone by their full name, especially if the middle name is considered by the group to be embarrassing (generally the vintage-revival or honor names we love here, so that I am constantly saying “But that’s a LOVELY name!” while Elizabeth rolls her eyes).

 

My guess is that there would be the occasional “Calling the person ‘DAB’ and then doing that dumb pose,” and that that’s all there would be to it—and that even THAT is somewhat unlikely to happen. (Elizabeth is more than typically interested in names, and the running name-related jokes are not happening in any of my other kids’ friend groups.)

Twitter poll: Are the initials DAB enough of an issue that they shouldn’t use the name? [poll closed; see results below]

Baby Naming Issue: Are Sophie and Josie Too Close? How About Sophie and Zoey?

Dear Swistle, Is Josie too close of a sibling name for Sophie? What about Zoey with Sophie? Too similar? I like names that end in the long-e sound (ie, y) but don’t want to end up with names that sound too similar.

 

They’re too close for my own personal taste—but it’s easy to think of tons of families I know who have used two names that are closer than I’d like, and it isn’t the sort of thing that is causing shock-waves throughout our community.

It’s not just matching endings but also a matching dominant vowel sound: both pairings of names include a matching OH-EE. Calling one of those names from a distance, I think you’re going to get both kids answering.

Sophie and Zoey are even closer than Sophie and Josie, because S and Z are very similar: S is the unvoiced version of the sound, and Z is the voiced one. So then it’s more like two and a half points of overlap: half a point for the first sound, then the OH, and then the EE—and with the same number of syllables in the same order. Well, and if you’re saying Josie JO-see instead of JO-zee, then that matches an S sound with Sophie, though in a different part of the name.

But lots of people LOVE similar sibling names and do it on purpose! There are people who have an Ella and an Emma! A Noah and an Owen! A James and a Jane! An Emily and an Amelia! So if you love the names, and you love them together, and you won’t be bothered by other people’s occasional confusion, then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with going ahead with it. They ARE different names, they just SOUND similar.

Twitter poll [closed; see results below]:

Twitter poll [closed; see results below]: