This started as a conversation on the long car ride home from the big-city hospital where my son Edward gets monthly Remicade infusions for his Crohn’s disease. We were talking about surnames, and how problematic it is to have a system that so consistently favors men’s family surnames over women’s, and how in many ways I wish I hadn’t gone along with that system—but also how I have been struggling for decades to think of something else I could have done that I would have liked better, when it is important to me to share a surname with my children, and when I don’t LIKE to be someone who bucks a system: I want to GO ALONG WITH the system, but I want the system to be GOOD AND FAIR AND NOT MAKE IT SEEM AS IF ONLY MEN’S FAMILIES/NAMES ARE IMPORTANT.

Edward (he’s 15) said that his plan is that if he gets married (he spent considerable time saying “IF!!!!”), he and his spouse will choose the Better surname, whichever one that is. He cautioned me that our surname is not starting out from a strong position, and I am not offended by that (it’s PAUL’S surname), and also I agree: the name is not nice sounding, it’s hard to spell and pronounce, etc. Anyway, I think this is a pretty good method. In some cases it’ll be easy to choose the Better surname; in other cases I expect it would result in some fairly competitive (but hopefully also FUN) discussions. I can imagine this system nevertheless ending in most hetero couples deciding, Purely By Coincidence, that the man’s surname is Better, but let’s not be pessimistic.

I next discussed this topic with William, age nearly-20, as we drove back to his college to pick up all the stuff he left behind last March: the college had been storing it, but made the suggestion that Right Now Please would be a good time to come get it, so we did. He liked the “choose the Better name” idea too, and we also discussed the merits of smash-names and choosing an entirely new name. We agreed that it seems that our society feels warmly about (1) household families all having a matching surname and (2) the history of surnames handed down generation after generation. So an ideal solution would make both of those possible, without resorting to “Welp, guess it always has to be the Man’s surname, then!”

So then I brought the topic to Rob, age 22. He enjoys this kind of discussion: picking through layers of meanings and cultural feelings and issues of fairness and so on. And he proposed the VERY FIRST solution I have EVER HEARD that feels to me like it solves all the issues AND could actually work. It’s an Everyone Gets Two Surnames solution. (As with our current surname system, no one is suggesting that this solution be REQUIRED or LEGISLATED; it would just be nice to have it replace the Current Traditional Default of Everyone Takes the Man’s Surname.)

When a couple married, each person would drop one of their two surnames (basing that decision on whatever priorities they personally had), and the couple’s new joint surname would be made of the two surnames that remained, and that would also be the surname they’d use for all their children. So Casey Miller Lovejoy and Jordan Appleby Rose would become, say, Casey and Jordan Miller Rose (they liked the sound of Lovejoy better but Casey is estranged from the Lovejoy side of the family; Jordan is close with both sides of the family but sick of Applebee’s jokes/references), and their children would all have the surname Miller Rose.

A single parent would give their own two surnames to their child(ren).

In the case of divorce/remarriage, a person would drop the part of their surname that belonged to the first spouse and make a new surname with the new spouse—which still lets them share half their surname with their children, if there were any children. Half-siblings would share half-surnames, which appeals to me. (Someone who was NOT remarrying could take back their original two surnames and still share half a surname with their children.)

Anyway, the kids and I had a lot of fun figuring out what their surnames would be under this plan. At first I was thinking I’d have had the birth surname [Mom’s maiden name] [Dad’s bachelor name]—but then I realized I didn’t know what my parents birth surnames would have been under this system OR what they would have chosen as the two surnames to be their new married surname! I could have had the surname [Maternal grandmother maiden name] [Paternal grandmother maiden name]! WHO KNOWS!!

One of the kids suggested we actually just go ahead and change our family surname. It wouldn’t even be very weird for the kids and me, since we all have those exact names in that exact order, it’s just that my maiden name is our second middle name; we’d just have to switch it to a surname.

It’s a little compromised in our case, because Paul and I only grew up with one surname each, so those are the ones that feel like “ours,” and so those are the ones we’d combine to be our married surname—and it’s unfortunate that this automatically results in both of us choosing the paternal surname. BUT: we have to start SOMEWHERE, and naturally there are going to be little glitches in transitioning from one system to another (similarly, we can all expect paperwork and computer-form glitches in the early days, before it takes hold as the new normal), so we will just ONWARD with it. To paraphrase an expression about trees, the best time to transition to a new naming system is many generations ago; the second best time is now. The name that is currently my paternal surname immediately becomes my kids’ maternal surname, and this is how change happens.

Also, if we’re GOING to do this, the time to do it is BEFORE any of our kids think of acquiring spouses, so that they can suggest this naming system to their spouses, and maybe their spouses will love it! LET’S GO, LET’S GET THIS STARTED

Hello!

We are stuck on a girl name for our soon to be babe. Due February 14, 2021. Our last name is Bergman, three older siblings are Jordyn, Brynn and Joshua. We’ve considered the names Jillian and Brooklyn, but aren’t sold yet.

Your help would be appreciated!

I hope this response isn’t too late to be of any use.

I find Brooklyn Bergman a little hard to say, but possibly in a good way, I can’t decide. I like that it gives you two each of J names and B names, and I like that all three girls get a Y. I like Jillian, but if it were me I’d prefer not to add a third J name (but I wouldn’t let that stop me if I loved the name and wanted to use it). More names to consider (including some I’m not sure about with the surname, in the same way I’m not sure about Brooklyn):

Ashlyn
Aubrey
Avery
Bailey
Bethan
Carys
Delaney
Ellery
Ellison
Emerson
Emlyn
Finley
Hadley
Keelyn
Kinley
Laine/Lane
Paige
Reese
Ryleigh
Shelby
Sloane
Sydney
Teagan

Hi Swistle!

You helped us pick a name 2 years ago for our 3rd boy. We are excited to announce we are adding a little girl to our family in February 2021. We are completely stumped on the name though. Our last name sounds like weigh with a B. I am Kandice and go by Kandi and husband Adam. We have 3 boys. Elijah (Eli) Reid, Ezra Lucas and Ethan Alexander. Since we went with three E names I feel like we have to follow our pattern with the fourth even though it’s a girl this time. Names we like include Eden, Evelyn, Emilia, Eloise. Non-E names I like are Iris and Norah. I like names that can be shortened to a nickname like with above,, Evie, Emmie, Ellie, etc. For a middle name I would like to go with Joy which is my mom’s middle name but I’m not sure it goes well with the names we like. Please help us!

Thank you!

As I did last time, I will say something you already know, which is that you really do not have to use an E name. We get to choose only a very, very limited number of baby names in our lives, and it seems like a shame to narrow those choices so drastically and so arbitrarily. Why give up the category “Names We LOVE” in exchange for the category “Names that Start with the Same Letter as the First Name We Chose”? Well. I do see how these things happen. And if you LOVE the idea of all the kids’ names starting with an E, and if drastically narrowing the name-choice field is helpful and reduces naming stress rather than increasing it, well then why not. Let’s look at names on your list.

I think Eden is way too close to Ethan. Also, it adds a third long-E to the group, and I find it a little uncomfortable to say with your surname, and a little uncomfortable as part of a run of biblical names. I do like the way it repeats the ending of Ethan, so you’d have two E-names that end in -a/-ah and two that end in -an/-en.

I like Evelyn. I like it with your surname. I like that it gives you two -ah/-a endings and two -an/-yn endings. I like that it gives you two 2-syllable names and two 3-syllable names. I like that it gives you two long-E names and two short-E names. I like that it adds a new consonant sound. This is my top choice from your list.

I think Emilia is pretty close to Elijah. And it adds a third -a/-ah ending to the group. Also, I know it’s an established alternate spelling for Amelia, but in this situation it feels like the spelling was chosen just to get an E name. But if it turns out to be your favorite, I think it works fine, and I think it’s good with the surname.

I LOVE Eloise; it’s on my own list. I like that it gives you two 2-syllable names and two 3-syllable names. I like that it adds a fresh ending. I think it’s great with the surname. But if you’re planning to shorten it to Ellie, I think that’s way too close to Eli.

I think Joy works great with most names, and is terrific with Evelyn, Emilia, and Eloise; I think it works fine with Eden.

I am sure you have pored over the E section of the baby name book so many times we can’t possibly come up with names you haven’t yet considered—but sometimes hearing someone else advocate for a name can put it back into the running, so let’s spend some time mentioning more E names we like.

Another E name from my own list is Eliza. I love it so much. I do think it is probably too close to Ezra [edited to add: and I agree with commenters it’s MUCH too close to Elijah], and also there is the same issue with Eli if you’d like to call her Ellie. But I think it’s fabulous with your surname.

Esther. Ancient and lovely, and biblical like your boys’ names. When I say the names aloud, I wonder if it is too close to Ezra; the sounds are very similar.

Eleanor. Again, the Eli issue if you want to call her Ellie. You could call her Nora, but of course she could still choose to go by Ellie. But gorgeous with your surname.

Ellery, Ellison, Eliana, Elena, Ella, Elodie, Elsa, Elspeth—all have the Eli/Ellie problem.

Emberley, Everly. It doesn’t seem to me that these fit your usual style, but they can be shortened to Emmie/Evvie, and I think they’re cute with the surname.

Emmeline. I love this. Elijah, Ezra, Ethan, and Emmeline.

Evalina/Evelina. I know a little girl with this name, and I find the name wears well and continues to be fun to say. I love it with your surname, and I like that it gives a new consonant sound. It does give you three -a/-ah endings.

Estelle. You could call her Essie or Stella.

Eva. Gives you a third long-E name, but I still love it.

(cc’d from the personal blog)

One of you mentioned the other day that you wished you could “like” someone’s comment, and I thought yes, that would be so fun, too bad it isn’t an option. Then someone else said it, and I thought, well, maybe I should just make sure that wasn’t a possibility, and I poked around behind the scenes in the commenting options area but there was no option for “likes”—too bad. Then someone said it VERY VEHEMENTLY and I thought “OKAY FINE I WILL CHECK FOR SURE” and I searched online and…found something. And I THINK, I THINK I have enabled “likes” on comments.

However. Beta testing by a helpful friend indicates you may need to be logged into WordPress in order to like a comment. Do any of you happen to know any way around that, and/or are you good at researching such things? (It took my maximum tech research effort to get as far as I have.) I don’t want it to be a feature available for WordPress Members Only, and may remove the “like” option if that’s the only way it can be.

(A note: I hope it is intuitively clear that I can never, ever, ever hit “like” on ANYONE’S comment, or else I will need to hit “like” on EVERY SINGLE comment, and one of those strategies is less work and less likely to go amiss than the other, so that is the one I will be doing. It will be UNDERSTOOD that Swistle automatically MENTALLY hits “like” on every comment.)

Follow-up: It looks like the comment-likes system is a WordPress Members Only club, so I am turning it back off.

Hello Swistle!
I need some help on the baby name front! This is my first baby and hoping to have one more some time in life. I found out we are having a girl that is due May 11, 2021. Which is my grandmother who passed aways birthday. Her name was Shirley Jean and I’m not a big fan of Shirley or Jean. I would want to include something of my grandmother but not really sure how. Middle name is set on Diane which is my and my mothers middle name. Last name is Johnson which is why I’d like something unique. I like unique names and names of places.
so far on our top list are:
Scottlynd
Londyn
Aspen
Lottie
Elsa
Scottlynd we like because my SO middle name is Scott and my first name is Lindsey so it is a combination of both of us. Unfortunately anyone we have shared this name with is not fond of it. I also worry about people calling her Scottie for short.
I love the flow of Aspen it sounds soft snd sweet and trying to find other names that have this quality. We also like the name Saphire but have been told it is a “stripper name”.
Lottie is the name of great grandmother I like how it is spunky sounding.
Elsa is another great grandmothers name and would like to include my Swedish heritage but don’t want everyone to think of frozen.
The boy name I was set on was Memphis. I love the sound of this name.
Any help is much would be very appreciated!
Thank you!

I personally am in favor of the “put the disliked honor name in the middle name position, where to your surprise you will gradually come to love the name you once thought you could hardly bear to use even as the middle name” method. But in this case you already have an honor middle name. You could add a second middle name; it dilutes the honor a little, but in this case your grandmother is no longer with us, and so it seems like a sweet way to honor her and it wouldn’t hurt anyone’s feelings. And I think Shirley is a wonderful example of a name that is likely to grow on you with time. The sounds of it are very pretty, and it’s due to come back into fashion soon. And the combination with Diane gives me a pleasant association with Anne Shirley and her friend Diana. FirstName Diane Shirley Johnson.

I generally suggest to first-time parents that they think ahead to future sibling names, to avoid accidentally using a name for a first baby that might rule out a favorite name for another baby (for example, using Ella without realizing it rules out using Elliot). In your case, because you like place names and had chosen Memphis for a boy, I would suggest thinking at this point about whether you would want to use more than one place name. That is, if you used Scottlynd or Londyn or Aspen now, would that rule out using Memphis in the future?

I also suggest not running any more name candidates past the person who referred to a name as “a stripper name.”

Okay, on to the name list!

I like the concept of Scottlynd from the parental point of view, but I like the concept less if I think of it from the child’s point of view: i.e., imagining my own name being a combination of my parents’ names. (It also feels like it might be hard to choose a sibling name.) I think I would save this idea as a possible future middle name—or I might instead choose to use Scott for a future child’s middle name, to line up with using your middle name for this baby. I like the idea of each child matching one parent’s middle name.

Londyn Johnson makes me think immediately of Lyndon Johnson—and because the two names are the same letters rearranged, it almost looks as if the name was intended to be a little joke.

I think Lottie is darling. I would personally prefer it as a nickname for another name. Charlotte works beautifully and is also a place name, but is too common for your preferences. Maybe Lotta, like the artist Lotta Jansdotter? Or Camelot? I’m not fond of the “camel” in there, but it’s an unusual place name, and Cammie and Lottie would be cute nicknames. It doesn’t pass the “Would I want this for my name?” test, but Cammie and Lottie do.

I think Sapphire is fun. One of my acquaintances has a daughter named Emerald, and I can say that name has been fun as well, and she can go by Em or Emmie or EJ if she finds it a little too fun. Emerald Diane Johnson, or maybe Emerald Diane Shirley Johnson.

I do think when people hear Elsa they still think of Frozen, but I also still think it’s a great name, and I think higher usage would help dilute the connection. If you don’t end up using it as a first name, I think it’s another terrific addition to the Future Middle Names list.

Let’s look for some more names to consider. I’m starting by choosing from the Place Names section of The Baby Name Wizard, then filling in with more candidates:

Abilene Johnson
Acadia Johnson
Alexandria Johnson
Amethyst Johnson
Asmara Johnson (ah-SMAR-ah)
Astoria Johnson
Astrid Johnson
Athena Johnson
Augusta Johnson
Aveline Johnson
Avonlea Johnson (just to commit to the whole Anne of Green Gables theme)
Azalea Johnson
Brighton Johnson (initials BJ)
Britton Johnson (initials BJ)
Cadence Johnson
Calista Johnson
Calliope Johnson
Cambria Johnson
Celestia Johnson
Clarity Johnson
Claudia Johnson
Emberley Johnson
Everly Johnson
Florence Johnson
Freja/Freya Johnson
Geneva Johnson
Gracelyn Johnson
Jolie Johnson
Juniper Johnson
Marigold Johnson
Paisley Johnson
Samaria Johnson
Savannah Johnson
Seneca Johnson
Sicily Johnson
Sonnet Johnson (repeats the -son- sound)
Venetia Johnson (initials V.D. with Diane)
Verity Johnson (initials V.D. with Diane)
Verona Johnson (initials V.D. with Diane)
Vienna Johnson (initials V.D. with Diane)
Waverly Johnson
Zinnia Johnson

Update (and photo) on Baby Girl Otherword-Mitten

Update on Baby Naming Issue: Is it Weird if the Two Middle Names Are Coincidentally the Same as Someone Else’s First/Last?

Update on Baby Girl Spi-ers-with-an-M

Hi,

My husband and I are struggling to come to an agreement on a name for our first daughter who is due very soon, in March 2021. The baby’s last name will sound like Marvey, but starting with H. After long discussions, we can only agree on one name. I am French and my husband is American; we both like the French version of Jane: Jeanne (pronounced Zhann or Jhann).

However, we live in the US and are concerned about how it will be pronounced here, either Jean/Gene or even Gee-Ann. We are okay with Jean but wonder if it will be confusing for her to have two very different sounding names, one at home and another in the world, or if she’ll end up correcting people constantly. And we definitely don’t like Gee-Ann. Is it likely people might call her Gee-Ann if we spell it Jeanne? Should we just give up on this name to spare her a lifetime of frustration or do you suggest going ahead with it, or perhaps changing the spelling…?

We really appreciate your thoughts or if you have other name suggestions. For inspiration, I like Eleanor, Adele, Anaïs (dropped because of another pronunciation issue…) and my husband likes Miranda and Anna.

Thank you!
C.

I do think she will be called Jean very very often (I don’t think anyone will ever GUESS Zhan; many people won’t even be aware of it as an option), and that she will have to correct people constantly and/or decide not to bother (such as with receptionists and baristas and other situations where it doesn’t matter and there’s no long-term gain in making the effort), though her inner circle will learn to say it Zhan. And if you are okay with having two pronunciations, and okay with correcting people when it seems worth it, then I think it’s fine: a constant mild issue, but not a big deal if you don’t find it irritating. I don’t think she will find it confusing; I think she will grow up with those two pronunciations and it will seem completely normal to her.

My guess is that she would be called Gee-ann almost never, but perhaps someone who is or knows a Jeanne could weigh in. My feeling is that, despite knowing that Joanne is pronounced like Jo-anne, we all know that Jeanne is pronounced Jean—except for the occasionally mental slip, such as when someone sees the name Evan and briefly pronounces it Even or Yvonne before realizing.

Another issue is that I think her name will be misheard as John: for example, on the phone if you are saying Zhan Marvey, I think it will happen pretty often that someone will write down John Marvey.

For me, this would all be Too Much to be worth it. But people vary widely on their tolerance for mispronunciations/corrections, and “My mom is French!” is a quick and adorable explanation she can use, and it would not take long for all of you to get into the habit of saying “It’s Zhan: J-E-A-N-N-E, Zhan” and “Oh, actually it’s pronounced Zhan—it’s French.” (I wish Jeanne D’Arc was an easy reference, but unfortunately I hear her name almost exclusively said as Joan of Arc.)

For any of you who don’t read Captain Awkward’s advice column already, today I recommend her post Giving Our Future Children My (the Hetero Wife’s) Last Name. I like how it lays out the surname options.