Category Archives: reference

Our Favorite Baby Names Starting with Y

Here’s the first post, where we lay out the game as we’re going to play it, but the gist is that we are pretending we have a baby to name, and that the baby MUST be given a name starting with a certain letter. From there, you can play it by whatever rules are most fun and least stressful for you, with as little or as much explanation as you prefer. And remember, it doesn’t have to be a name we’d ACTUALLY want to use: we’re just choosing our favorite from an artificially-limited batch of names.

Today’s letter is Y! I found it challenging: apparently in the U.S. we don’t use very many names starting with Y. I choose Yvonne for a girl and Yates (in honor of Sally Yates) for a boy. I initially chose Yasmine/Yasmin/Yasmeen for a girl, but then I was practicing using it (imagining calling my daughter to come downstairs for dinner, for example), and it didn’t feel right for our family. Yvonne is not what I would usually choose, either, but it felt comfortable to use. I’m a little concerned that Yates would be perceived as a misspelling of Yeats, but this is just pretend so it’s okay.

Our Favorite Baby Names Starting with Z

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Commenter Mara mentioned on the last post that she used to play an alphabet game with baby names where she’d choose her top favorite names for each letter. I am still feeling too mentally scattered to post normally, but the idea of this game appealed to me and I thought it might also appeal to others and that we could play it for awhile. I’m going to go in reverse alphabetical order, because it’s not fair that the beginning of the alphabet always gets to go first.

At first I was thinking we’d do several letters at a time, in batches: our favorite names starting with X/Y/Z, that sort of thing. But then I started working on the day’s letters, and found I was overwhelmed and inclined to give up. So perhaps it will end up being too SMALL a bite, but let’s just do one letter at a time and see how it goes. For a letter like Z it won’t take long, but just wait until we get to letters like J and M and E!

Here is the game as I plan to play it: I am going to pretend that I am naming a baby and that the name MUST start with the letter Z, so I will need one Z name for a boy and one Z name for a girl, or else one name that would work for either, EVEN IF I don’t like any of the Z names enough to Actually In Real Life choose them. I’m not planning to play that the name has to fit with the names of my other children or with the surname, though this would be an option for anyone who would LIKE to play it that way; I think I will have more fun if I pretend it is a stand-alone baby and that the surname is not an issue, though I may change my mind as we go. (If I narrow it down to a few options and can’t decide, I might use siblings/surname as a tie-breaker.) It is also fine to narrow it down to a few finalists without getting to The One Name. We can also all make our own decisions about whether the names have to be ones we think we’d ACTUALLY USE in that hypothetical scenario, or just our FAVORITE names starting with that letter, regardless of whether we think the names are practical; I am not sure which way I will play it, and I might not be consistent. If you already have a child with a name starting with the letter we’re working on, you get to pick again from all the names that remain; you don’t have to choose your child’s name as your favorite just because it WAS your favorite: this is a FRESH baby. And you can do as much or as little explanation as you like in your comment: you can just list the names, or you can explain your process/preferences/reasoning/runners-up, or whatever is most fun.

So today’s letter is Z! And I find my inclination today is to choose the names I would actually pick if I had a real baby and were required to use a Z name—but without it having to go with the sibling names. I think I would choose Zinnia for a girl, and Zeke for a boy. The girl name was easier (though I hesitated at Zaria and Zelda and Zola); the boy name was more difficult because my own preference is to use full names and have the option of a nickname, rather than using the nickname as the given name—but when I narrowed it down to a few that met my preference (such as Zachary), Zeke was still the name I most wanted to use. And this is pretend, so it’s fine.

Now you! If you want to! Only if it’s fun and not stressful! Feel free to adjust the game-play to be fun and not stressful!

Middle Name Challenge: Baby Boy Henry ______ Myth-with-an-S

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Hi Swistle!

My husband and I are expecting our first baby – a boy due on September 13th! Our last name is a common name that sounds like Myth but starts with an S. We are set on the name Henry for his first name – it’s a name that both my husband and I have loved for a long time. We plan to have 2 or 3 children.

Our dilemma comes when trying to choose his middle name. We have three options – David, Robert, or Thomas.

David is my dad’s name and I would love to honor him. He is a wonderful man and we have always been very close. It makes me happy to think of my son being named after him. The only thing holding me back from using it is the first name Henry. Henry David. Does it instantly make you think of Henry David Thoreau? Will everyone make that association and comment on it? Does it matter? My husband doesn’t think it’s an issue.

Robert honors many great men from both sides of our family – it’s my dad’s middle name, my grandpa’s name, my brother’s name, my husband’s grandpa’s name, and my husband’s brother’s middle name. This one almost seems like a no brainer.

Thomas is my husband’s name and I would also love for our little boy to be named after his dad. I love the name Henry Thomas.

I am torn. Do any of the three options stick out to you as the best or obvious choice? Does one of them sound the best with the name Henry? Should we save the middle name David for another possible son in the future?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Caroline

I had a similar issue with my last baby: three great middle names to choose from, all good solid names and all honor names, and nothing really standing out as Best. Whenever I couldn’t sleep, I would think about the three possible names and wonder which one was the Right decision.

The main thing that helped me was realizing that because all three were great/solid/honor names, there was no WRONG decision, either. I think that’s the case here, too: all three choices are great names, good solid names, good honor names. Also, this is your first baby, and you are planning more children, so you may very well have chances to use the other honor names.

I do think of Henry David Thoreau if I hear “Henry David,” though not in a shocked, how-could-they-have-used-those-two-names-together kind of way, just in a mild familiar literary way. A vote for “yes, I hear it, but I don’t think it matters.” So for me the severity of this issue depends on a combination of two things: (1) how much you mind if some people think mildly of Henry David Thoreau and (2) how often you think you think you will say “Henry David.” Will it be on the birth announcements, and then the next time you hear it will be at his high school graduation? Or are you a family that tends to call people by first/middles? Actually, I’m changing my mind as I write, because I notice that the more times I write/read “Henry David,” the less I think of Thoreau. I think even if you were a family that commonly called people by first/middle, the association would quickly dissipate. If I encountered a kid who went by Henry David, I would think very mildly of Thoreau, and then I wouldn’t give it much/any thought after that. Anyway, the short version of this paragraph is I think all three names should still be in the running, but I also see the merit of the plan of saving David for a future boy not named Henry.

I think what I would do if I were you is go through a series of exercises to try to tease out my own preferences.

Exercise One: Imagine each name in turn, and imagine the baby is born and you are announcing that name to the honoree(s) as you show them the dear little bundle. Which gives you the strongest feeling of excitement/happiness to imagine the reaction?

Exercise Two: Imagine each name in turn, and imagine that you knew in advance that this was in fact your only chance to use one of these three names. Which gives you the strongest feeling of unhappiness to imagine not using?

Exercise Three: Imagine filling out all the forms that will need to be filled out in the early years of this baby’s life: forms for health insurance, for a Social Security card, for the pediatrician’s office, for daycare/preschool registration. Imagine you are writing his first/middle/last: which gives you the strongest feeling of satisfaction to imagine writing?

Exercise Four: Assuming you’ll have the chance to use more than one, do you have any feelings about which name it would be nicest to use FIRST? Perhaps you like the idea of the firstborn son having his dad’s name as a middle. Or perhaps, if the surname is from your husband’s side, you like the idea of using a middle name from only your side of the family, to set up a pattern of balanced honor names. Or perhaps for the first baby it’s pleasing to imagine honoring the widest possible number of people from both sides of the family, for greatest all-around rejoicing.

Exercise Five: Are any of the three names a name you might want to use as a first name later on? They’re all so nice with Henry: Henry and David, Henry and Robert, Henry and Thomas. If for example you might want to name a future son David, then you could use Henry Thomas this time and plan to use David Robert next time.

Exercise Six: Do any of the three names rule out using either of the other two? For example, if you use Robert this time, does it make you feel as if your dad has already been honored, so you don’t want to use David for a future baby?

If it were me, I would be most torn between David and Robert, I think because Thomas feels to me like it’s more usable for any child and doesn’t have to be THIS time (and the “dad’s name as firstborn son’s middle name” tradition is so familiar to me, it feels fresher if it’s NOT the firstborn son); and because it was so much fun for me to announce honor names, and Thomas is the only one that lacks that fun surprise for the honorees.

I have gone back and forth between thinking I’d choose David and thinking I’d choose Robert. I like both options very, very much. I love a good strong one-honoree honor name—but I also love the idea that Robert is a much-used family name on both sides of the family (and slightly more on your side, which helps with balance). IF IT WOULDN’T MAKE YOU FEEL AS IF YOU COULDN’T USE DAVID LATER ON, I think if it were me I would use Robert this time, and save David for a child not named Henry. But I would say my preference is based mostly on my own response to Exercise Four, combined with the tiniest hesitation about Thoreau. However, if you were to write later that you had used Henry David, my heart would leap up just as much: the two names are neck-and-neck for me, just a different set of very pleasing advantages for each.

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

I apologize it has taken me so long to send this update. We really appreciated your input and all of the comments from your readers. Our son Henry Robert was born and his name suits him perfectly! If we ever have another boy, his middle name will be David.

Thanks again!

Baby Naming Worries that Turned Out To Be Unfounded

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Commenter Dori suggested that a good follow up to Baby Name Regrets of the Many-Years-Later Kind would be a post on the things we worried about during the naming process and then they turned out to be no big deal:

people who were really worried/hesitant about a name, and then it turned out to be fine down the road – meaning, spelling/pronunciation didn’t end up being an issue, or the SIL was fine with the “name theft”, or it was a mouthful but the kid embraced it, or there were no other Sophies in the entire town …

We did a post like that once (Baby Name Issues that Weren’t Important in the Long Run), but it was seven years ago and it certainly seems due for a redo. I went into a lot more detail on that post, but here are a few of my own worries that came to nothing:

• I worried that my daughter’s name was way too long: four names, twelve syllables, thirty letters. But…it doesn’t matter at all. It never comes up as an issue. No one ever remarks on it. I don’t know why I was so concerned. I believe one of her middle names might have had to be shortened on her Social Security card because they ran out of room, but I don’t remember for sure; if that turns out to be a problem later in life, I will update here. But it shouldn’t, considering the Social Security Administration doesn’t consider middle names part of the legal name.

• I was worried about the spelling of one child’s name: it’s an honor name, and it’s the less-common spelling. It has not been a bothersome issue: I just spell it when I say it. Maybe once or twice it was spelled wrong somewhere, and then I just corrected it? It doesn’t even lodge in my memory, it’s been such a non big deal. I’ve been more annoyed by the regular misspelling of another child’s absolutely traditional spelling.

• I was worried that William’s actual name was too common: while pregnant and in my third trimester, we ran into TWO new babies with that name in the same day. And he was indeed one of three Williams in his class in preschool, and a couple of other times over his school career. And it was totally fine: they called themselves “the Williams,” they still call each other “William T.” and “William K.” and “William J.,” even when it’s not necessary, just for the fun of yelling it out in the school hallway or at graduation.

What issues were you nervous about during the naming process, but it turns out they haven’t been a problem?

Baby Name Regrets of the Many-Years-Later Kind

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I want to talk today about name regret, but not quite in the way we usually would on a baby-naming blog. Today I would like the subject to be about regrets we still have many years later: not fresh postpartum regrets, or regrets about a name we used two or three years ago that is making things difficult with a current baby, but things we still wish we’d done differently long afterward—even if we don’t necessarily regret the names we actually used, and even if we don’t necessarily know what we would have done instead, and even if we think if we had it to do over we’d probably end up doing it the same way, and even if it’s a mild regret that doesn’t bug us much or often. (Though also if we do and we do and we don’t and it does.)

And this can include anything, small or large: regretting a spelling, regretting using one honor name instead of another, regretting not using a name for a reason that turned out not to matter, regretting a whole naming philosophy—whatever. Feel free to go on at considerable length; I’m planning to.

1. I regret using my own family’s surname as only a second middle name. I can defend the decision in part by saying that 21 years ago, and with both of us coming from conservative Christian families, using my surname in any way at all seemed pretty huge and tradition-breaking. I can also defend it in part by saying that I STILL don’t know exactly what I would have wanted to do differently. Do I wish we’d hyphenated? Do I wish we’d used my surname for the kids? Do I wish we’d used a double surname? I don’t know, not really, I just spin through the possible options I didn’t want when I theoretically had the option to choose them.

I guess what I wish is that I hadn’t thought of “second middle name” (not even “middle name” but SECOND middle name, the one that gets left off by default) as such a huge ask (not that Paul made it seem that way, just that to me it seemed like a lot to ask for), and such a huge stance. I guess what I further wish is that we didn’t have a patriarchal naming system that means, for heterosexual couples, that using the father’s surname isn’t even viewed as the giant, enormous concession by the mother it is, but instead is considered the default, the automatic, the not-really-worth-discussing-except-theoretically, the thing many mothers don’t even consider a factor in whether they should get more say in the other names. I am happy every time I see an example of a family where this is not the case.

2. I regret not even CONSIDERING using my own first name as my daughter’s middle name, even though I love her actual middle name. But I didn’t even CONSIDER using my name, and I regret that. We considered using Paul’s name as a middle name for the boys, but rejected it because (1) the kids were already getting his surname and (2) my mother-in-law kept “subtly” suggesting it, which turned my heart against it. But we never even DISCUSSED using my first name as a middle name for Elizabeth. It makes me a little weepy to think that she could have had my birth first/last names as her two middles. Furthermore, my mother and I have had many, many, many discussions about how our first names, both of which have the rhythm of my name (Kristen), just don’t WORK as middle names because of the rhythm: that emphasis on the first syllable just makes them really obviously FIRST names, and unworkable as middles. But think about some REALLY REALLY COMMON male middle names that have the same rhythm: Joseph. Michael. Robert. Edward. Andrew. Daniel. David. William. Thomas. Stephen. It’s not the rhythm. The rhythm is not the issue. ALL OF MY BOYS HAVE MIDDLE NAMES WITH THAT RHYTHM. But somehow my name just doesn’t work for some reason, some completely mystifying and absolutely-not-because-it’s-a-girl-name reason, I guess we’ll never know.

What are some of your regrets?

Baby Naming Issue: The Process of Choosing a Name

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Hi Swistle,

I wonder if we could have a discussion on how parents go about the process of choosing a name.

Do you schedule a day to sit down and talk through it? Have random discussions throughout the pregnancy? Weekly chats? How early/late do you start talking/deciding?

Thanks!
Emma

Fun question! Paul and I are opposites with baby names: I get out the name books and a notebook the VERY DAY I find out I’m pregnant, and I would like to have a running conversation that lasts the entire pregnancy; he would prefer to talk about names perhaps once or twice, and not until the third trimester. We have to compromise. Our process varied from pregnancy to pregnancy, but if I were to SUMMARIZE it, I’d say it generally went like this:

I would spend a LOT of time going through books, making lists, thinking about combinations, etc. Periodically I might say to Paul, “Can we talk a little bit about baby names?” and he would say yes, and then we would talk until he started getting restless. Or I would give him my working lists and ask him to put marks next to any names he particularly liked or particularly objected to; sometimes I would then want a chance to talk him around to one he’d ruled out. (In one memorable case, he absolutely vetoed a name with the first pregnancy, then chose it from my list as his top favorite the next pregnancy. I made no remark on that and just took the win.)

Paul almost never came up with names. If pressed to do so, he would come up with names from our own generation: I’d have to look it up to be sure, but what I’m remembering is that his girl-name suggestions were Tamara and Wendy. Those are great names! For people he went to high school with!

He fit the profile of many such partners, which is that he was also inclined to veto too quickly without really thinking about it, and to incorrectly think of currently-popular baby names as “weird” or “old lady/man names.” When I had a name I particularly liked, I would use this approach to avoid an auto-veto: I would say, “I have a name for you to consider. I don’t want you to react to it right away. I want you to think about it for awhile first.” Then I would say the name, say a few things about the name (including stats if applicable), say the name a couple more times, and leave the room. If I really loved the name, I would extend this process: I would include the name in emails sent to him on other subjects, or I would say it periodically out of the blue. In one case, I mentioned a scientist and an author with the same name. The goal was to familiarize him with the name before asking him to make any sort of decision on it.

In one case, we had the full name decided before the end of the first trimester (that was the time he picked the name he’d previously vetoed). That was disappointing to me: I like to draw out the process. In all the other cases, we had some pretty solid options going into the third trimester, but it was open enough that I could continue thinking about it until the birth if I wanted to, while leaning on the reassurance of having a name in place.

How did everyone else do it?

Name update:

Once I got to about 20 weeks we sat down to combine both of our lists. We started with about 50 names for boys and girls. Once a month we’d have a name meeting where we’d each rank names 1, 2, or 3. Names that got 3s from both of us, or a 2 and a 3, were eliminated. Eventually we got to a top 6 for each:

Arthur
Benedict
Edward
Sebastian
Theodore
William

Alice
Beatrix
Dorothy
Harriet
Matilda
Olivia

I thought we’d go in with a final 2 for each, but once we got that far we knew what the top choices were: Sebastian and Beatrix. Our baby girl was born in March this year, and we love her name!

Baby Naming Issue: Surnames and Family Naming Traditions

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Dear Swistle,

I read your blog religiously and with the recents posts involving mother’s last name issues and feelings of resentment/pressure surrounding names, I decided it was time to write you myself. My situation is a two part question. I will try to be brief but I have a feeling it’s going to be long so feel free to cut it down if necessary!

I am currently pregnant (due in April) with our second child, a girl. We have a two year old son named James Reave (spelled differently). He goes by James exclusively and is named for my dad. His middle name is my husband’s beloved grandmother’s maiden name. I love his name and am happy to have honored the people we did. The resentment sets in when I start to think about his last name. I did not change my last name upon marrying and as I am the last member of my family to carry the name, I have particularly strong feelings about it. I always secretly imagined my husband taking my name and my children carrying it on, and though I did mention this desire occasionally, it was never seriously discussed as I think my husband and I both realized we weren’t willing to deal with the fall-out that would inevitably occur if we broached the subject with our families. Looking back, I wish I had cared less about what others thought and had had the courage to push for a real discussion on the matter. We contemplated giving our son my last name as a second middle name, but were hesitant to saddle him with such a long and clunky name. When it came time to fill out the birth certificate paperwork, I was too distracted to care much one way or the other and it wasn’t included. We almost gave him my last name as his only middle name but because we were naming him after my dad, it seemed strange for him to have my dad’s exact name with my husband’s last just tacked on the end. Hyphenating would have been the ideal compromise but both of our names are long and cumbersome and it would have made for a 20 letter last name. My last name also sadly doesn’t make for a desirable first name. I thought that I would just move on from this but as I begin to register him for activities and preschool, I am constantly reminded that we don’t share a name and it makes me sad. I am tempted to take my husband’s name but I feel like I’m giving up some of my identity and there is also the unfortunate issue of my name sounding terrible with his. My question is, should we at this point legally change our son’s name to include my maiden name as his second middle name? Do you know how much of a hassle that is at this point? Is there another solution I haven’t considered? I had thought that perhaps if we had another son we would just give him my last name as his middle but we are having a girl instead and it’s just not the name I envision for my daughter. Which brings me to my next quandary.

Ironically, in light of the conundrum surrounding my last name, my mother’s family has a matriarchal tradition of naming each first girl after her mother, Sarah. Although I go by my middle name, my first name is Sarah. My mother, grandmother, and great grandmother were all Sarah and the line of Sarahs continues further back still with a couple of all male generations mixed in. For as long as I can remember, my future daughter has always been referred to as Sarah by everyone in my family, as if there were no other option. It’s only now that we’re expecting a girl (who will almost certainly be our last child) that I have come to realize that we actually do have a choice in the matter. I’m torn because I love the idea of continuing this tradition that makes me feel connected to my mother’s family but on the other hand, I feel like I’m giving up the opportunity to pick my only daughter’s name. Sarah is a fine name but feels slightly plain and overused to me and as it is my mom’s name, it seems a bit strange for both of my children to be called the same names as my parents. I realize we could move Sarah to the middle name position, but that seems to water down the tradition somewhat. We have considered naming her Sarah and calling her Sadie, but we’re just not sure Sadie feels quite right. Where we seem to have landed for the moment is to name her Sarah but call her by a middle name of our choosing. My hesitation with this of course is the hassle that comes with being named one thing and called another. I have been frustrated by this my entire life and to now be contemplating doing it to my daughter feels a little wrong. On the other hand, I survived it and can now appreciate the significance and meaning behind my name. The name my husband and I keep coming back to is Sarah Emmeline. Emmeline, though not a family name, feels special. I like the connection it has to multiple suffragettes and women’s rights activists as well as it being the name of the title character in a book about female independence that I enjoyed reading. Additionally, it was the name of my first cabbage patch doll, and as a result, it’s a name I have always had a soft spot for. While I do love the name, something is keeping me from completely committing. It is definitely my husband’s first choice and he has told our son the name, who has now taken to calling her Baby Emme in the sweetest little voice that melts my heart. But is Emme too cutesy? Will Emmeline constantly be mispronounced? (I prefer the Emma-line, rhyming with pine pronunciation). Does it work with James or is it too uncommon alongside a top 10 boys name? Does it sound like a trendy, made-up name as one of my friends suggested? Other names we like but that don’t feel quite right are:

Clara
Celia
Charlotte
Kate
Eliza/Elizabeth
Linnea (I love, husband hates)
Adeline
Isabella (family name but too popular)
Cora
Maggie (we don’t like any of the longer name options)
Georgia (if we had a boy, George would almost certainly have been the name so I want to hang onto it in case a boy were to come along)

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the best option for us. Please feel free to suggest new names or ones from our list that we should reconsider. I’m sorry for the incredibly long post but I would be so appreciative of any guidance you may be able to offer on these naming dilemmas! And I’ll be sure to send an update!

Thank you!!
L.

As time passes, I feel increasingly incredulous at the way I considered Paul so progressive just because he was WILLING TO DISCUSS other options than going with his surname. And at how both of us concluded that there was nothing else that was worth the hassle and confusion—as if “having someone periodically make an incorrect assumption about our surname” would have been so terrible, and “me having to give up my family name and use his family name for ALL OF MY CHILDREN” was so much lighter a load.

And I can’t believe I felt as if I were really getting my way to have my surname put in as the children’s second middle name. Not even their first middle name, but the SECOND one. The one that gets left off of many forms that don’t have room for two. I’m still glad we did that rather than doing nothing, but it feels like being grateful for crumbs.

My hope is that the way you and I are feeling, which is the way I have noticed a lot of other adult women feeling, is a feeling that will move like electricity down to the next generation of women: that THEY will think, “Why would I give up my OWN name and take HIS name?? That’s insane!” and then also NOT give all the children his name so that she ends up the only one not in the family surname club. My hope is that if we as a society can’t come up with a fair solution that makes sense for every family, then we as a society are going to make room for a lot of different ways to do surnames, and that most of those ways will equally represent both parents (and/or average out to equal representation), and that we as a society will stop acting as if that’s weird. We’ve had comments on surname posts that make me wonder if there’s something in the water—like, women commenting that they don’t think using the father’s surname for the children should in any way mean the mother should get any more say in the rest of the name, because that’s just normal and doesn’t count. AS IF THAT IS NOT, AT ITS CORE, THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION OF THE ENTIRE PROCESS. Which family do these children belong to? Which family matters? Who is head of the family, as symbolically shown by his spouse and children taking his name? What name goes over the door, on the mailbox, in the phone book, in the newspapers? What name goes onward down the family tree, and which one is abandoned? THIS STUFF MATTERS ENORMOUSLY.

In moments of regret and societal despair, I have fantasized about dropping my husband’s surname from my own name and from my children’s names. I grew those children in my body, I have done the vast majority of their care over the years: if they must be marked with one family name or the other, they should be marked with MINE. It is interesting to me that when I do consider this, what I worry about is the apparent symbolic attack on Paul: if I drop his surname, if I give his surname to the children only as a second middle name, how can that represent anything but the most enormous slap in the face? (This is when I pause, wondering if anyone else is thinking as I then do about what an enormous slap it is to the mother and the mother’s family, when her name is preemptively stripped from her and from all her future descendants.)

About your son’s name. I feel almost weary as I root for the option to change his name to include your surname as a second middle: it feels like so much trouble, and for crumbs, and I don’t know how much hassle is involved but I expect a fair amount, and I hesitate to push anyone to deal with city hall about anything, when I myself would almost rather perish. But—when my eldest graduated high school, and they read his full name and one of those names was my birth surname, it is hard to explain how glad I was. I did not even slightly wish we had given him a shorter or less complicated or nicer-sounding name; if anything, I only wished we had hyphenated, so that we could have heard my name every day instead of once in 18 years. It gave me this feeling like…like names are IMPORTANT, not decorative. Like they are HISTORY and they MEAN something! Yes, there are names that would have been PRETTIER, but my family name doesn’t need to be pretty in order to be important.

There was a girl in Rob’s graduating class who had an almost startlingly complicated/clunky hyphenated surname. I am trying to think of an example that would communicate the feeling/sound of the name without giving away anything about the name, and I am failing. BOTH surnames are impossible to spell and pronounce. One of them is four syllables, the other is three. They don’t sound good together. And yet, weeping my way through the graduation ceremony, I thought, “Why didn’t WE do that??” Her name doesn’t have to “sound nice.” Her name communicates her ancestry, and IT INCLUDES HER MOTHER. Why is “sounding nice” more important than “INCLUDING HER MOTHER”?

How often, I wonder, do women drop the idea to use their own surname for the children because the name doesn’t sound nice? Compare that to how often we decide not to use the father’s surname just because it doesn’t sound nice. I went to school with a kid whose surname was Butt, and another whose surname was Dick. If those had been the mother’s surname, would there be a chance in hell of the children having those names anywhere within their names? But because it was the FATHER’S surname, it was worth the constant embarrassment. This is one of the many ways we reveal our beliefs about the relative value and importance of the parents’ surnames.

Every family that starts with anything except One Woman + One Man has to figure out the surname thing without falling back on the tradition of male names dominating, AND THEY ARE ALL MANAGING TO FIND SOLUTIONS that don’t involve one of them getting credit for agreeing it sucks that the only sensible solution is to go with tradition. One Man + One Woman families have some significant catching up to do in this area.

I am about to suggest an idea that I didn’t have the courage to do myself. I’m essentially saying to you, “I played it safe and went the nice comfy easy route that everyone understands, but you, YOU, should do the uncomfortable thing.” So I’d like to start by saying that you can trust me to 100% understand if you DON’T do it and instead do exactly as I did. I truly, deeply get it. But if we forget for a moment what the norms are, and we just look at the situation we have in your one single family, here is what we have:

1. Your husband, with his own birth surname
2. You, with your own birth surname
3. Your son, with your husband’s birth surname
4. Your daughter, with ______

Society is a mess, but your one single family can be balanced, surname-wise. If you like, you could change your son’s name to include your surname as a second middle name, and give your daughter her father’s surname in that same position. You and your husband could change your own names, taking the other one’s surname as a second middle name. (Perhaps wait and do this later, when the kids are older and it isn’t such a major ordeal to even get to the store for eggs, let alone get to city hall to do paperwork. You can make a date of it, maybe for a significant anniversary, while the kids are in school: first city hall, then lunch, then maybe a museum.)

I don’t know how to vote on the Sarah tradition. I have mixed feelings about naming traditions: on one hand, I find them touching and cool; on the other hand, they can cause such unnecessary pressure—and why does one person gets to name all the future generations? I strongly believe everyone should get to name their own babies. And especially when things get to the point that no one is actually using the revered name in daily life but instead just putting it on paperwork, it starts to seem like maybe no one really wants to do this tradition and it should stop. And I agree it seems odd to have your two kids named after your parents. I’m going to put this in list form:

1. The name Sarah would only be on the paperwork.
2. This was your own naming situation, and it has frustrated you your entire life.
3. It feels a little wrong to you to do this to your daughter.
4. The name Sarah feels plain and overused to you.
5. You lose the opportunity to choose your only daughter’s name.
6. You don’t like the idea of your two children having the same names as your parents.

Weigh this against the downside of using Sarah as a middle name: it “seems to water down the tradition somewhat.” It absolutely DOES dilute the honor, but perhaps it is high time for that dilution to happen, and well worth it.

But I can also see how, for various reasons, you might decide to continue the tradition. In which case, I am strongly in favor of Sarah Emmeline, called Emmeline. Emme is not too cutesy; if it becomes too cutesy, you will stop using it and use something else (Emmeline, Emma, Em, Ems). Emmeline will occasionally be mispronounced/misspelled, but within normal range. It works beautifully with James and doesn’t seem too uncommon next to it. It is not a trendy or made-up name; your friend was mean to say that, as well as wrong.

I feel like you are under a lot of pressure here. There is the intense societal pressure to use your husband’s surname for the kids. There is intense family pressure to use the name Sarah for your daughter. And now you have pressure from Swistle, trying to make you give your daughter your own surname AND dilute the family naming tradition. All of this while you’re pregnant.

Well. I will say this: my own vote is for Emmeline Sarah YourSurname (or, if you change your son’s name to James Reave YourSurname HisSurname, then Emmeline Sarah HisSurname YourSurname). But if you go with Sarah Emmeline YourSurname, or Sarah Emmeline HisSurname, I will understand. There is no one single option that is obvious and solves all the issues and makes everyone happy, and all of us have to weigh the pros and cons and then choose the solution we think will give us the least grief in the long run. I believe I may have chosen wrong, but that doesn’t mean it would be the same for you.

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

I’m sorry for the delayed update but wanted to let you know our final decisions after the birth of our daughter! I can’t thank you and your readers enough for your kind words of encouragement and affirmations that my feelings and desires were valid. While I absolutely loved the idea of passing my surname on to my daughter (and am excited to see a recent poster going this route), I couldn’t stop myself from thinking, “But what about James?!” I realized it was all or nothing for me and decided it was more important to me for us all to be a cohesive family unit that shared a name. Being an only child with divorced parents probably contributes to this extra strong desire for unity :) We decided it made the most sense to make my surname the second middle name for all of us. Not incredibly original I know, and I agree with you Swistle, it feels like crumbs. While this was not my ideal solution, I feel satisfied enough with this arrangement and will look forward to hearing my surname read aloud at my children’s graduation ceremonies. Unfortunately, it seems I’m not doing much to further our cause, but I do hope that others will have the courage to challenge tradition and that societal norms will have changed enough for our daughters to have an easier time making these tough decisions.

As for the first name/middle name debate, your comments and the comments of your readers truly helped free me from any sense of obligation I was feeling about using Sarah and I decided to see what felt right when we met her. When I saw her, I knew I wanted her to be a part of the (now seemingly unending) line of Sarahs. I know I’m just kicking the can down the road, but in that moment it felt like an honor and not a burden to be able to pass along the tradition and to share something special with her. I’ll do my best to make it clear to her that this tradition does not need to continue! So Sarah Emmeline (called Emmeline or Baby Emme) it is. Thank you again!!

L.

Baby Naming Issue: What to Do When You Don’t Really Like ANY Names

44 Replies

Hi Swistle! I recently discovered your blog and I really enjoy reading your responses to baby name questions. I’m hoping you’ll have a little advice for me, too.

Since I was a little girl, I’ve dreamed of naming my own children more than most girls dream of a fairytale wedding. You would think that means I’ve had the names decided for years, but that’s not the case at all. Now that I am expecting my first child- a girl due June 14th- I’m finding the task to be incredibly daunting.

We decided on her middle name right away. It will be Blake, which is my husband’s first name. Our last name starts with an E and is opposite of the cardinal direction “west”. We agree that we want her first name to be more feminine, and that it doesn’t need to honor any other family members’ names. It can be uniquely her own.

The problem is I’ve put so much pressure on myself to find the “perfect” first name, and the perfect name simply doesn’t exist. I even went as far as to download the Social Security Database of every baby girl’s name in 2015 (the latest available data at the time) and used an Excel spreadsheet to eliminate names we knew we wouldn’t use. That process took months and eventually we gave up on that route.

At this point we’ve seen almost every name imaginable, and looked at them for so long that we aren’t in love with any of them- even the ones we have at the top of our list. We currently have a top three, although I’m not real sure how we got there other than these three keep coming up in our conversations:

Eiley – I feel like I could potentially be excited about this one, but I’m most worried about common mispronunciation. I’ve also heard it’s a nickname for Eileen, and I’m not a fan of the name Eileen.

Skylie – Or Skyler and have the option of calling her Skylie or Kyler.

Harper – A “safe” name, however maybe TOO safe. It’s the #4 most popular name in our state and I worry the phrase “Harper who? Which one?” would be a daily occurrence in her school years.

Other names we have recently marked off the list but might could be talked in to again- Trinity, Kensington, Mercy, Decklyn, Briley, Everly, Harlyn, Maylee.

Since you have already looked at all the names and you don’t like any of them enough to use them, this is not the kind of post where I make a list of names you haven’t considered and you say “Oh, whew, yes!” Instead, we are going to talk more generally about how to pick a name when nothing seems like the clearly right choice.

1. Instead of looking for a name, look for a STYLE. Once you figure out the TYPE of name you like, you can be reasonably sure that any name you like from that category will be satisfying to you in the long run and will work with future sibling names. Your style looks to me like what The Baby Name Wizard calls Bell Tones. I also see some Last Names First, some Androgynous, and some Charms & Graces—but the Bell Tones stand out. This is good news: it tells us that your choices are fairly consistent, and so you are likely to pick a name that you will like long-term and that will go well with future choices.

2. Don’t look for perfect: look for a good solid useful choice. It can seem to parents as if there is One Perfect Name out there, and that their job as parents is to find that shining grail. But in most cases, there is no One Perfect Name, there are just a lot of perfectly good names that would all work perfectly well. Your quest isn’t to find the universe’s preordained name choice for your child; your job is to give her a sensible identifier that she and others can use to refer to her. You need to find a name to put on the school-registration paperwork, and for her to write on her homework, and for everyone to write on gift tags. You can pick something that Works, without having to find Magic. The magic comes with time, as the name comes to represent the child to you.

3. Realize that every name is not just a name but a Package Deal. Some names come with spelling or pronunciation problems; some may feel boring or overly common; some are trendy or may get much more popular in the near future; some are easily mistaken for other names; some are awkward with the surname; and so on. Finding an issue with a name doesn’t mean that name has to be ruled out, because every name has issues; it only means you have to decide if the issue is one you’re okay with.

4. If having the middle name chosen before the first name is causing you any trouble, I suggest scrapping it for now and considering it again only once you have a first name chosen. When you’re already having such a hard time, there’s no sense making it harder.

5. Take a break. It sounds as if you’ve been doing this intensively for quite a while. I’d recommend taking a short period of time—say, one week—when you don’t talk about names at all, and try not to think about them.

6. Try them out. Once the break is over, take each of your finalists and give it its own day. For that day, refer to the baby by that name and think of her by that name. Does it feel like it works? Does it feel like the name of Your Baby? See which ones feel most comfortable. Are there any that you were sorry to stop using? Any that you were looking forward to being done using?

Let’s turn to the names themselves. I notice that you like the rhyming names Eiley, Skylie, Briley, and the similar-sounding Maylee and Everly. You’ve also got Decklyn and Harlyn. So if I were you, I would be looking pretty specifically at names containing -iley/-ylie and names ending with -ly/lie/lee and -lyn.

When putting names together, make sure you try out the first name and surname without the middle name between them, since that’s the way most people will be hearing them: -ley Ee– is a lot of long-E. (But again, consider the Package Deal concept: this is not necessarily a deal-breaking issue, just one to consider ahead of time.)

I also suggest, as The Baby Name Wizard does in the Bell Tones category, playing around with name parts and endings. If you like Skylie, maybe you’d like Skyler, as you mention, or Skylin or Kylie or Kinsley. If you like Briley, maybe you’d like Brilyn or Braelyn or Brinley or Briella. If you like Maylee, maybe you’d like Maelyn or Mylie. If you like Everly, maybe you’d like Ellery or Emery or Ellisyn or Evanie.

I wonder if you would like Isla with the nickname pronounced Eiley? (I’m not sure how I’d spell it. Isly? Ily? You could see what evolves naturally.) It breaks the connection to Eileen (though I wouldn’t have jumped to that), and may help with pronunciation.

Decklyn makes me think of Locklyn.

Locklyn makes me think of Linnea.

Harper makes me think of Juniper, a much less common choice with the darling nickname Junie.

Delaney comes to mind for no particular reason; I just wonder if you would like it. Cute nicknames Del and Lanie.

I wonder if instead of using Blake as her middle name, you’d like the idea of using Blakeley or Blakelyn or Blakelind—either as middle or first. I like how the second two could be seen as a combination of your husband’s name and yours. Lakelin would also be nice for this.

Baby Girl Tennis-with-a-Gr, Sister to J@ck J0seph

36 Replies

Hi Swistle! My husband and I are expecting our second (and likely final) child in February. It’s a girl. We have a two year old son named J@ck J0seph. His first name is one of the few we agreed on, and his middle name is a family name on my husband’s side. Our last name rhymes with ‘tennis’ but starts with Gr.

We like fairly traditional/ preppy names that easy to pronounce and spell. I’m fine with classic/ popular but not so much trendy/ popular names. If baby was a boy we likely would have named him Reid or Graham. For a while I thought we were set on Evelyn and then in a week’s time I swear I met/heard about five different Evelyns and it made me doubt our choice. Now we’re having trouble even generating a list of enough girl names we like. Boy names were so much easier for me!

Possibilities:

Evelyn (bonus that it was my great grandmother’s name)- We can’t agree on what we would call her. Evvie? Evie?

Elise- this is growing on me

Amelia- this was my favorite for a long time, but it has risen in popularity since then and husband is lukewarm

Claire- I would say this is a clear 4th choice, behind the other 3

Possible middle names:

Rebecca- my middle name

Elizabeth- family name on husband’s side

I think I’m still leaning towards Evelyn Elizabeth or Evelyn Elise (I like the double E’s since our son is double J’s, but it’s not necessary). Do you have other suggestions for us? Thank you- I promise to send an update!

The rise of the name Evelyn has been interesting to me. I have an aunt named Evelyn, so I’d mentally grouped the name with other names (Nancy, Carol, Barbara, Deborah) that were still being actively used by the mothers/grandmothers and so weren’t yet ready to come back around for new babies. It’s more typical for names to sound good right around the time everyone who had the name last time has, er, departed. But Evelyn broke away from the pack and came back early.

Well, or maybe not actually early: although I do have an aunt named Evelyn, the name last peaked in the U.S. in 1915, when it entered the Top Ten for one single year. It dropped pretty steadily after that, settling into the 200s rankings in the 1970s-80s. Then:

(screenshot from SSA.gov)

Hello! Back for another round! Evelyn is a nice old name, and I think it’s great with J@ck. I think you could wait and see how the nickname works itself out, unless there is a nickname you actively dislike. I love your idea of doing double initials again; I’d vote for Elizabeth since that’s the family name. J@ck J0seph and Evelyn Elizabeth.

Claire is my own top favorite from your list, but I’m less enthusiastic about it if it’s well behind the other three for you. Do you like Clara any better? J@ck and Clara, very nice.

I’m less fond of Elise, but it’s hard to put a finger on why. I’m not crazy about the repeated S ending of Elise _ennis, that’s part of it.

Let’s see if we can come up with a few more names to consider. I like the idea of her sharing your middle name. Just for fun I was going to see if I could come up with a list of repeating-initial names in the right style, but I only found Rose and maybe Rosemary, and J@ck and Rose is probably too much Titanic. More first-name options to consider:

Eleanor. It has the rhythm of Evelyn, the El- of Elise, and a nice assortment of nicknames. J@ck J0seph and Eleanor Elizabeth.

Abigail. Along the lines of Amelia. I love the sound of J@ck and Abby.

Eliza. I love it with J@ck. Rules out Elizabeth as the middle. People differ on this, but I love the sound of a repeated -a first/middle: Eliza Rebecca.

Molly. Some of the sounds of Amelia. J@ck J0seph and Molly Rebecca.

Cora. One of my friends has a daughter named Cora, and it strikes me pleasantly every time I hear it. J@ck J0seph and Cora Elizabeth.

Lydia. This name, like Evelyn, surprised me by coming back into style before I’d expected it to. J@ck J0seph and Lydia Rebecca.

I also like the idea of naming her both of the family middle-name options: Elizabeth Rebecca. J@ck J0seph and Elizabeth Rebecca. That’s just PACKED with classic.

Name update:

Hi Swistle- You helped us with some name ideas for our baby girl back in November. I was really encouraged by all the positive feedback for Evelyn Elizabeth and we felt confident that was her name. But then- literally the same day that you posted our question- long distance friends had a baby and named her Evelyn. What are the odds? So we had to decide how much that mattered to us, especially since we rarely see them. I loved your suggestion of Eliza and really tried to sway my husband. But in the end, we just couldn’t shake the feeling that she was meant to be named Evelyn Elizabeth- and it suits her perfectly. So far we’ve been calling her a mix of Evelyn, Evvie, and Ev. Thanks for all your help!

Baby Girl, Sister to Xola; Looking for a Meaningful Name

24 Replies

We are expecting another girl- due in four weeks and have NO LIST of names. YIKES. Our first daughter Xola’s name comes from Nelson Mandela’s first language meaning Bringer of peace and Marie is her middle name. The M comes from all of our grandmas with M names. My husband would like a meaningful and unique name for number #2, but we haven’t gotten very far. If you have any suggestions please send them our way.

Have you considered “Swistle”? Unusual, meaningful (“bringer of baby names”). Not entirely unique since she would share it with me, but two in 7.4 billion isn’t too bad, and I will try not to show up at the same parties.

This is a good question to give to a big group like this. Even if the specific people/things other people find meaningful are not the same things you find meaningful, there are bound to be some ideas that lead you to think of other ideas.

I think if I were you I would start by making a brainstorming list. Well, first make a list of words to put you in the right mindset, words such as:

meaningful
important
inspiring
important
admirable
anything other word that makes your heart rise up with “YES, that is the kind of thing we want!”

And then, with that list of words visible to both of you, say “1, 2, 3, GO!” and write down everything that you think of when you think of those words. Or leave a pad of paper out, where you can jot down things as you think of them over several days. Maybe you’d write down people such as Malala Yousafzai and Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama, or words such as peace and philanthropy and international and love, or organizations such as Doctors without Borders. Historical figures, scientists, Nobel Peace Prize winners, authors, poets, flowers, words from other languages. Go to your bookshelf and see whose books you have. Look at your charitable giving. Any of these things can lead you to something or someone you would like to honor with your child’s name.

Well, or for some people this method is going to take what was only a slightly difficult problem and turn it into a giant overwhelming mess. If you’re reading through that paragraph above and your heart is starting to pound with anxiety instead of with happy industriousness, then let’s try something else.

I have a book called Baby Names Made Easy: The Complete Reverse Dictionary of Baby Names. Names are sorted into categories such as “Peace & Freedom,” “Happiness & Joy,” “Kindness & Goodness.” If you wanted to stick with the theme of peace, here are a few ideas from that section:

Amina – peaceful, trustworthy, truthful
Reena – peaceful
Selima – peace; healthy
Tula – tranquil

Or here are a couple from the Kindness & Goodness section:

Alma – nourishing, kind
Charis – graceful, kind

Or from the Intelligence & Wisdom section:

Meira – enlightener
Minda – knowledge

Or from the Dreams & Hopes section:

Asha – hope
Nadia – hope

A few more, from riffling through the book at random:

Adelpha – beloved sister
Brisa – beloved
Carita – charity, kindness
Caro – dear, beloved
Jaia – victory
Liora – light
Nira/Nera – light
Rona – strength
Vela – guardian
Yori – trustworthy

And so on. There is a good assortment of names from many countries. I would, however, double-check the meanings in another book to be sure.

For the middle name, my own preference would be to find another name that honors family. Or the middle name would be a good place for a name that hit all the markers of what you wanted in a meaningful name, but wasn’t something you wanted to use as a first name.