Dear Swistle,

I am a long time reader and fan of your blog(s), and am now calling for you for advice with naming our fourth and final child, a girl, due in three weeks (because what better time than a pandemic to have a baby?). I am going to apologize for the length of this email, but want to give you lots of detailed info. The short version of the dilemma is that I LOVE the names our first three kids have, and cannot settle on a name that 1) I equally love for this last baby and 2) checks all the boxes that I care about.

Here are all of the nitty gritty details: Our last name is S1aughter, my maiden name is Ke11y. I’m of Irish and Jewish descent, and my husband is all WASP. Our older children, in birth order, are Teddy (full name Edward Hain Ke11y S1aughter), Ellie (full name Eloise Ruth S1aughter – and sometimes we call her Ellie Rue), and Pippa (Philippa Hope S1aughter).

The criteria we try to meet are the following:
– Style: obviously, we like names that sound a little like british nobility. But we particularly like that they are all names that are not super duper common but still widely known. And all a little old fashioned.
– Nickname potential: We want the kids to have names that give them options – if they don’t like what we choose to call them, they have other options. So all of them go by nicknames now, but have long-form names they could use as an alternative, or could use middle names, etc. And, in fact, for each of them we settled on the nickname well before we decided what it would be short for – so for example we wavered between Theodore and Edward for Teddy, and Philippa and Penelope for Pippa.
– Working with our last name: Obviously, S1aughter can be tough. Makes it hard to use names that end in “s” sounds (though we broke this rule for Eloise), and rules out any real words as first names (like, if we hadn’t used Hope as a middle name already I would love that except Hope S1aughter feels a little dark…)
– Honoring family: each of the kids have names that honor specific family members; it is also particularly important to me that my heritage and family be reflected in first/middle names since they all have my husband’s last name. So, specifically, my son has an E-name to honor my late uncle Eugene, and in fact largely shares initials with my uncle (my uncle was EHK, Teddy is EHKS). Hain is a family name on my mother’s side and he also has my last name as a second middle name.* Ellie’s names come from her two grandmothers’ middle names: my mom’s middle name is Louise (close to Eloise) and Ruth is my mother in law’s middle name. Pippa is named for my great-aunt Phyllis (the only one of my maternal grandmother’s siblings not to have a niece/nephew named after her) and Hope is a nod to my paternal grandmother Joy (Joy is also my middle name).

– For this fourth baby, in addition to the general criteria above, we would love to honor our dads with this name. Our dads are Kevin Vincent (mine) and Howel William (my husband’s). Since none of their names have direct female equivalents (except William) our thought was to use initials, and my husband would really like his dad’s name to be in the first name position. So that means initials of either H___ K___ or W___ V____.

The short list that we have so far is:
-Harriet Katherine, nn Hattie (or Hattie Kate). This is the frontrunner to which I cannot commit. Pros are that it checks all the boxes, with the bonus of extra family connections on my side: Harriet/Hattie was the mother of a very beloved second cousin of mine, and Katherine was my dad’s Irish grandmother (though she was Catherine with a C). Also Harriet has lots of excellent historical and literary references. Cons are that I don’t really LOVE it; it feels less pretty than our other girls names and I worry it sounds too old ladyish. I do love Hattie, but is that too many -ie sound endings among our kiddos?
– Hazel Katherine. Pros are same as the above without any of the benefits of Harriet in terms of familial or historical reference. But maybe I like it more? Cons are no obvious nickname, maybe too trendy, none of the benefits of Harriet.
– Willa Violet. Pros are that I love the names, especially Willa. And Willa is obviously directly linked to William. Family resonance is sort of a wash- there are Williams on both sides of the family, which is good, but there are complicated feelings about some of them. And other than the V-initial, Violet is definitely new on our family trees. Cons are that there is no obvious nickname, plus the limited family references (like, there is nothing remotely Jewish about that name).

There aren’t a lot of other H/K/W/V names we are excited about.

My husband seems very happy with Harriet/Hattie, and could live with the other two. The problem is really me, and my inability to just settle on Harriet/Hattie. He also cares substantially less about my “rules” than I do, though does care about honoring family. When we’ve roadtested with friends and family, friends tend to LOVE Harriet/Hattie, though my parents definitely did not like it (though appreciated its efforts to honor their families)

As you often correctly note, no naming rules have to be hard and fast, so maybe we toss them out and just pick other names we love? If we were doing that, our list would include:
– Ada/Addie (Ada was my maternal grandmother)
– Alice
– Anne/Annie
– Beatrice
– Daisy
– Georgia
– June
– Magnolia/Maggie/Maisie/Mae
– Rosie

I’d love your thoughts. Should I just get over whatever is holding me back on Harriet? Is it in fact a lovely name that I’m just not hearing that way right now but will be adorable on a baby? Or are their other names we should be considering, especially H/K/V/W names? Or ways to meet all our criteria we should think of?

With gratitude,

Pregnant in Quarantine

* We didn’t give the girls two middle names or my surname. Teddy got it in part because of the symmetry with my uncle’s initials and in part because the fourth name felt more sustainable for a boy, by which I mean that when i got married I wanted to share a name with my husband but didn’t want to drop either my middle or my maiden name, so just tacked S1aughter on to the end. But having four names is annoying enough and I didn’t want my daughters to have to grapple with five.

If this were your first daughter, I’d have a couple of paragraphs here on the topic of whether girls should be named differently than boys based on assumptions about their future marriages and future marriage-based name changes. Since this is the third daughter, it seems better to keep going with the same type of name her sisters have (especially since that type of name is the usual first/middle/last), and maybe change the explanation: perhaps it was the FIRSTBORN who got the extra/maiden name, not the boy-who-is-not-a-girl-and-so-would-not-need-to-think-ahead-to-any-name-change-at-marriage.

I will say in general, for others reading this post, that I don’t think girls should be given names that (1) assume they’ll get married, (2) assume they’ll marry men, and (3) assume they’ll change their names at all, let alone in a particular way. And we do future generations a service when we root out the default assumption that men don’t change their names and women do. Oh, look, it turned out I had a couple of paragraphs on the topic anyway. (But they were shorter and less bossy than they would have been!)

On to the rest of the letter.

In some ways, it can get easier to name each additional child: the process gets more familiar, the preferences get refined, the parents work out a good system for making the decision together. Also, the parents have had a chance to see how some of the anxieties of the naming process (“But this name repeats the dog’s initial!”) don’t matter much later on, and how early naming concerns (“But Margaret feels like Too Big a Name for this tiny newborn!”) settle down as the name gets comfortable from familiarity and daily use and perhaps a transitional nickname such as Ms. Pants.

In other ways, the process gets much more challenging, as choosing certain names gradually rules out using more and more of the remaining options. This will vary from parent to parent, but for example perhaps using the name Eva rules out using Evan, Ivan, Eli, Everett, Ezra, Evelyn, Geneva, and Genevieve. Some parents might not want to repeat an initial, or might not want two flower/virtue/month/-en names in the sibling group. Sometimes as the sibling group grows, the naming style feels more cohesive and parents get more reluctant to choose something from a different style category. Or parents run out of favorite names, or run out of honor names, or feel locked in to a particular pattern, or whatever.

In any case, the pool of names to choose from gets smaller and smaller with each named child. And so in general, my feeling is that it is a good idea if possible to get more relaxed and flexible as the sibling group grows: the kind of symmetry and balance that is easily achievable with two children gets increasingly challenging, perhaps even unachievable/undesirable, with four or five. I notice a lot of letters from parents restricting their name choices to the point where they are only allowing themselves to choose from a tiny group of names they don’t even like very much: at some point, the preference for coordinated sibling names (a preference I strongly share, so I am sympathetic) backs them into a corner.

In the very first paragraph, I start to wonder if you are having this exact problem. You love your first three kids’ names, and you can’t find a fourth name that you love AND that checks all your boxes.

Then you go on to give us the list of boxes, which is a pretty reasonable list, though I would still be advising the usual willingness to bend or drop one or more of the preferences.

But THEN you say that in addition to wanting to love the name AND check all those boxes, you ALSO want to name your daughter after two men—and that your husband wants his father’s name first. That is the part where my mouth actually dropped open. It’s too much. It’s too much! Maybe there IS a name that meets all those requirements AND ALSO you’ll love it, but it sounds to me like you have looked very carefully and are very familiar with this process, and you’re not finding it, so we are not likely to find it, either. It isn’t as if there are very many H and W names to go through; we’re not going to find a name you’ve overlooked.

Something has to give. Boy, I’d really like to start by dropping the preference that she be named after both of her grandfathers and in a specific order. That is a really next-level challenge to add to a fourth child’s name on top of everything else. Going to all of this trouble and sacrifice in order to give her a name starting with the same initial as your husband’s father’s middle name seems…not worth it, honor-wise. Could we go back in time and say that the names Hope and Hain already honor your father-in-law by using his initial, and that Ke11y already doubly honors your father by matching his initial AND being his surname? It seems very symmetrical: each grandfather is already represented twice.

At the very least, I think the preference of honoring your husband’s father with the first name should be dropped, and K and V should be added as first-name initial choices. I further think you should add the option of using one grandfather’s middle initial for the first name paired with the other grandfather’s first initial for the middle name, for balance. This takes a set of restrictions that forces you to choose ONLY among H.K. and W.V. names (the jaw drops afresh), and lets it at least be a choice among H.K., W.V., K.H., V.W., V.H., and W.K. names, which is PLENTY DIFFICULT ENOUGH.

Furthermore, some of your other honor names have not been initial-based: Eloise to honor Louise, Hope to honor Joy, a family surname. Is it possible to widen the net even further by allowing similar honors for the two grandfathers? Is there a family surname (their mothers’ maiden names?), or a name that is in some other way similar to the names in question? Eva or Ivy or Evelyn for Kevin? Lavinia or Vina for the -vin- in both Kevin and Vincent? Willemina for William? Ella or any -el/-elle name for Howel? What if you chose a first name you loved, and then used an H-K middle name such as Hazel-Kate? I am not keen on such reaches for honor names, but I also feel like we are trapped in a very tight corner here, and we are not going to lift the preference for honoring the grandfathers, then we should do everything we can to gain even a single inch more wiggle-room.

Well, in the meantime, let’s look at the names on the finalist list. First, I think the name Harriet is great. That doesn’t mean you will/should feel the same about it, but I think it’s fantastic. I mentioned it just the other day in a list of names that gave me a thrilled shock the first time I heard them on a child. Edward (Teddy), Eloise (Ellie), Philippa (Pippa), and Harriet (Hattie) is a very pleasing group, and makes my heart happy to look at it, and I like the way the name Harriet gives some new sounds. I know I’m advising you to drop preferences, but it DOES please me the way it checks all your boxes anyway, and to see all those additional honor-name elements (the 2nd cousin’s mother, the great-grandmother). I like the two groupings: Edward, Eloise, Philippa, Harriet; Teddy, Ellie, Pippa, Hattie. Lovely. Nice work. Don’t choose it only because it meets all the preferences—but if you DO come around to it and love it, I think it’s a great name.

Willa goes the other way: instead of adding new sounds, it repeats them, and that gives a different effect that appeals to me in a different way. Teddy, Ellie, Pippa, Willa—that makes a little satisfying Venn diagram in my mind of repeated sounds/letters/syllables, and of course all those doubled letters. It would displease me a little to be seeing these overlaps between one child’s given name and all the children’s nicknames—except that since Willa wouldn’t have an obvious nickname, I think it actually helps blur that distinction and make it less of an issue: her given name fits with her siblings’ given names AND with their nicknames. It sounds like your main hesitation is with Violet. If you instead go for the balance of one grandfather’s MIDDLE initial as the FIRST name and the other grandfather’s FIRST initial as the MIDDLE name, that opens up K. Does it make anything fall into place if you can use Willa Katherine?

Hazel is nice, and pleasingly similar to in look/letters to Howel. I like the way it pulls in the Z-sound of Eloise after a break for Philippa: Edward, Eloise, Philippa, Hazel. I agree with your assessment that it doesn’t seem as if it adds enough to outrank the pros of using Harriet—but that opinion stands only if you find you continue to only maybe like it more.

And after saying I wasn’t going to find any names you’d overlooked, I’m still going to mention one of my own favorite W names, which I think goes so beautifully in this sibling group, I almost can’t stand to mention it: if I never mention it, you can never tell me you already thought of it and rejected it. Well, here it is: Winifred. I love it so, so much. And look at it with the other names: Edward, Eloise, Philippa, and Winifred; Teddy, Ellie, Pippa, and Winnie. The W. to honor your father-in-law without getting other family Williams involved. And then Katherine as the middle name: if your dad is going to get honored in the middle-name position, it makes sense to balance the honor by using his first initial. Winifred Katherine; Winnie Kate.

I don’t want to mention any downsides to the name, because I want you to choose it—but I found I couldn’t leave them out: I don’t consider either one of them a deal-breaker, but I would still want to have thought of them before using the name, rather than after. The first is that if she wants to use the nickname Freddie, which is one of the things I like about the name Winifred, I wonder if that’s too horror movie with the surname. The second is that Freddie rhymes with Teddy. I don’t care very much about issues with nicknames, and especially when those nicknames can easily be avoided if the issues bother anyone—but, again, I like to have thought of those issues beforehand.

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

I have long owed you an update after your excellent and helpful advice on naming baby number four. I will confess that I am only now getting to it not only because of [gestures around] all that is going on, but also because I was honestly embarrassed by your totally appropriate call-out on different naming plans for boys and girls. I actually agree with everything you said – I do not (1) assume my daughters will get married, (2) assume they’ll marry men, and (3) assume they’ll change their names at all, let alone in a particular way. Nor, for that matter, do I assume my son will get married/to a woman/keep his name. I think I just articulated myself poorly in a failed effort to be concise (plus, I probably let some latent unconscious sexism rise to the surface). I think my real thing is that over time since my son was born and since I’ve been filling out many forms for myself and him and dealing with inconsistent application of middle vs last names, I’ve increasingly found having four names cumbersome. BUT ANYWAY you were right to call me out and I appreciated it.

Now on to this delicious little baby! Your advice was very helpful, both as a sounding board for the names we had on our list and in telling me to stop making it so difficult for myself. Let me first say that I actually LOVE your suggestion of Winifred, and especially Winnie, and it would already have been on my list because it’s great…except that Winnie was the name of a beloved family dog, and therefore felt like we couldn’t use it. But your validation of Harriet helped me see the name through others’ eyes a little better and come to like it more.

And taking your advice, I decided to relax some of my thinking and returned to the family tree to ponder a bit more. And I noticed for the first time that my dad’s parents could provide the solution: his father was named Lew, and his mother’s middle name was Lucille. My aha moment was Lucy! Lucy would honor my dad by honoring his two parents, and bonus that my husband and I both loved the name. I was also willing to let go of naming order (which I made in my letter sound like it was something my husband was pushing, but I don’t really think that was fair to him; he is substantially more flexible on all things and if anything had expressed a weak preference which I turned into a rule and then just cancelled over no protest from him whatsoever).

So we spent some time wrestling between Harriet Lucy and Lucy Harriet, and were genuinely torn! In fact, we went into the hospital and through the birth undecided. But then our sweet baby girl had to spend a stressful 24 hours (away from me, but without my husband leaving her side) in the special care nursery (during a pandemic, which was not directly relevant at all but made everything more stressful). She is absolutely fine, but at the time it felt very scary. She was unnamed when they took her away, but I quickly decided that Harriet Lucy felt more like the name of a tough little fighter (I don’t pretend this is rational – I was on a lot of drugs and very emotional). And it was settled!

The name seems to fit her quite well. We mostly call her Hattie, (or Hattie Lou, which is a nice little mirror of her oldest sister whom we call Ellie Rue sometimes). But she already seems like a sweet and sassy little Harriet too.

Here is Hattie at three months, spiky hair and all. Thanks again for your help!

Hi there,

We’re due in June with a girl – our second! We’re naming her Celeste and planning to call her Cece.

We’ve been thinking to give her the middle name of Julia after my great-grandmother. Recently, another family member passed away who I would also like to honor. His name was Abraham. Are there any girl names that combine J and A? Julianne is not an option because of a cousin named Giuliana. Our daughter’s last name is one-syllable, rhyming with Milk.

Thank you!

If Julianne would meet the requirement but Julia does not, then I take it we are looking for a name not just containing a J and an A (since Julia already contains a J and an A), but instead a name that has a J name and an A name combined, the way Julia + Anne = Julianne. You could make a whole bunch of combinations playing around with the A section and the J section of a baby name book:

Adajane
Adajean
Annajane
Annajean
Annajulia
Avajane
Avajean
Avajune
Joanna
Josianna
Joyanna
Judianna
Juliabelle
Junabelle

I don’t know, some of those look messy. This is not really in my skill set; perhaps some commenters can come up with better options. I was hoping to find more that ended in -abel(le), in case that brought the name Abraham to mind, but kept running into trouble (Jeanabelle is pretty if you know it’s Jean + abelle, but otherwise looks messy, and also like it might be Jee-anabelle); and a fair number of J____abel combinations bring Jezebel to mind.

Are you sure Julianne is out? If the cousin Giuliana is a bad association, or if the extended family is particularly possessive about names, I can see not using it. But as long as the association isn’t unpleasant, it doesn’t seem confusing or problematic to use a quite-different variation of a cousin’s name as a middle name.

I also want to ask if you are sure you want to try to get two honor names into one middle name. To you, does a name such as Julianne or Avajean feel like it honors your great-grandmother and also a family member named Abraham? Other options include: because of the timing, choosing to honor just Abraham instead (were you close with your great-grandmother?); or, if you are hoping to have more children, saving one of the two honor names for a future child; or, changing plans entirely and using both the first and middle names as honor names.

If you do want to honor both people this time, and you want to use only the middle name slot to do it, my own preference would be to instead make it a double middle name. I like Celeste Julia Abigail or Celeste Julia Gabrielle: Abigail/Gabrielle capture at least a little of the sound of Abraham. I’m also seeing some name options I don’t know if I would suggest or not: Abreanna, Abriel/Abrielle, Abra, Abria.

Name update:

We welcomed our little girl on May 12! After much back and forth (Ava? Alden? Juliette? Jane?!) we settled on Celeste Julia and absolutely love her name! She came a few weeks early, but we’re all home safe and sound thanks to wonderful doctors and nurses who cared for her during amidst this pandemic.

Dear Swistle,

I am due with baby #2 in September. My first daughter is Ariela Elena. The name ticked off all the boxes for us. It has a great meaning (lion of God), it has a great nickname (she goes by Ari), and it is easy to pronounce in Spanish and English (we live in predominantly Spanish speaking community). Her middle name is a Latinized version of an honor name on my husband’s side of the family.

All kids will have two last names following the tradition of the Latin community (think Harrison Smith in our case).

We’re not planning to find out the sex of this baby. If it’s a boy it’ll most likely be Elliot nn Elio, middle name Theodore or Timothy (both honor names). It’s another Hebrew-origin name that sounds modern (I’m a sucker for British-sounding boy names), and it is familiar in our Spanish-speaking community. I’m also finding that I like the soft vowels and “l’s” in both names.

What I’m really writing you about is a girl’s name. We have a name that we love that was a front-runner for our first daughter, and we’ve wanted to use it for years. However, I’m having doubts about its usability for a girl.

The name is Adlai. I came across it a few years ago. Similarly, it’s a Hebrew name with a cool meaning (Justice of God). I loved it immediately. I work in social justice so it has a little extra special element for me. My question is: Can I use the name Adlai for a girl?

Though it’s seldom used at all now (which gives me hope), it is a traditional boy’s name connected with some historical political figures. When we came across it, though, we thought it just sounded more like a girl’s name. I’m not surprised that it did with the trend of Adelaide, Adeline, Adalyn, etc.

I’m not bothered by using a traditional boy’s name, I just want to avoid a lot of confusion and explanation if it really is set in people’s minds as a guy’s name.

Another part of that problem may be the similarity to other popular girl’s names. I have a K name that’s similar to so many K names from the 80’s and 90’s, so the idea of correcting people really doesn’t bother me. I’ve also gotten used to reminding people that my first daughter is Ariela not Ariana (something I did not expect to deal with). But I would like some feedback from the community. Is Adlai going to be impossible to remember with all of the other Ad- names or with so many variations out there already, will people be more likely to take in stride?

A third factor, which isn’t a big issue for me, is pronunciation. I believe the famous Adlai Stevensons pronounced the name Ad-lay. I have read that it can also be pronounced Ad-lie. Spanish-speakers in our community will be more likely to pronounce it Ad-lie, but I’m not sure with English speakers. What is your first inclination?

I know there’s the option to use Adlai for a boy, but it’s been in my head as a girl’s name for years, now I have a hard time picturing it on a boy (and I do love Elliot).
Potential middle names would be honor names Dorothy/Dorothea, Lia, or Patricia.

Thank you all for your input.

K

I don’t know anyone named Adlai, and so I am going to start with a little research. First let’s check the Social Security Administration to find out current U.S. usage. In 2018, the name Adlai was used for 5 new baby girls and 18 new baby boys, so the current U.S. usage is very rare, and unisex but used more often for boys.

I am not sure if the Ad-lie pronunciation you mention is “lie” with a long-I (like telling a lie, or like lye soap), or “-lie” with a long-E (like the ending of Charlie/Natalie/Ellie/etc.). If we think the name might legitimately be pronounced Ad-lee or Ad-lye, then we have some more possibly related usage to add:

Adalae, 19 F
Adalai, 9 F
Adalay, 12 F
Adalee, 314 F
Adalei, 11 F
Adaleigh, 112 F
Adaley, 34 F
Adali, 31 F
Adalie, 150 F
Adaly, 54 F
Adelae, 9 F
Adelai, 11 F
Adeleigh, 9 F
Adeli, 6 F
Adelie, 31 F
Adely, 8 F
Adlee, 87 F
Adleigh, 96 F
Adley, 480 F / 19 M
Adlie, 8 F

Some of those look like they’re trying to get the LAY sound, some look like LEE, some look like LYE, and some look like Ada plus an ending (as opposed to the Add- sound we’re looking at).

My guess (and this is based on not knowing any people named Adlee/Adleigh/etc. either, so take that for what it is worth) is that many of the Adley names are related to Hadley and to the whole Addison/Adelyn/Addy group, rather than to Adlai; and that many of the Adeleigh/Adelie names are related to Natalie, and also belong to the Addy group.

My next step was to make sure I knew how Adlai Stevenson was pronounced, because that is the only association I have with the name. (Here’s a couple recordings and a couple more recordings if you want to go listen.) It is ADD-lay, though I heard some recordings that seemed to put a little half-beat in there so it was sort of ADD-uh-lay, but with only a quarter or half of the -uh-. I find I keep slipping and saying it add-LYE, I think because of Mordecai and Adonai.

Here is a screenshot of a pdf I found on the topic (which indicates that add-LYE was a common alternate/mis- pronunciation):

It looks to me as if there’s no particular reason you couldn’t use Adlai for a girl; the boys don’t seem to be using it right now anyway. But this is a good area for commenters to weigh in: others might have more/different associations with the name that make it more of an issue. It seems like a challenging spelling/pronunciation to me, but as long as you’re willing to accept that as part of the package deal of this particular name, I don’t think that has to be a dealbreaker: a spelling that is difficult because it is old/traditional is not in the same category as a spelling that is difficult because the parents made it that way on purpose to be different.

I do think for most people, the only association will be the various Adlai Stevensons, but that many people won’t even have that association (it was only today I learned that there was more than one political figure named Adlai Stevenson). I think for many/most people, the name Adlai will sound and look like another entry in the Adelay/Adalyn/Adaleigh category, and that’s something that would bother me a little if I were considering using the name, but it’s a huge benefit for familiarity/acceptance of the name. The spelling will reinforce the Adlai Stevenson connection for those who know it, and may look invented/creative to those who don’t.

I think my main reaction to the name is “Yes, of course you can use it if you want to—but why?” Why take this exceedingly rare, oddly-spelled, hard-to-pronounce, one-hit-wonder boy name out of obscurity and then also use it for a girl? If there’s no answer that is any more of an answer than a parent might have for any other name (“We just really liked it, and we like the sound and the meaning”), that’s what gives me that “Why?” feeling. Why do it? Why not find another name you like the sound and meaning of, but without the odd baggage?

For all of those reasons, if it were up to me I think I would use Adelaide instead. It’s almost the same sound; it’s beautiful; it’s used exclusively for girls in the U.S.; and it’s a nice fit with Ariela. Or Adelay would be pretty.

Name meanings are not my thing so I’m not going to dwell too long on that topic, but I will say generally that meanings can vary from book to book. If it’s important to you that it mean “justice of God,” check multiple sources before using it, to make sure the various meanings fit with what you’re going for. The Baby Name Bible says Adlai means “refuge of God.” The Oxford Dictionary of First Names says Adlai is a contraction of Adaliah, and that Adaliah means “God is just.” Baby Names Made Easy: The Complete Reverse-Dictionary of Baby Names says it means “God is just; God’s refuge.”

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

I know that usually when someone writes in asking permission to use a name they love, they use it anyways. However, when I read your reply and the comments, I gave up Adlai for a girl, cold turkey. The replies confirmed my two biggest concerns: 1) it was too strongly associated with Adlai Stevenson to be neutral and 2) its pronunciation is confusing.

From there I reworked both girl and boy choices. The girl’s name wasn’t hard to find. We had a vanishing twin early in the pregnancy, and I had Ida picked out after Ida B. Wells. A girl would have been Ida Beth. I appreciated the suggestions for Dorothea as a first name, which we also considered.

I also gave up Elliot because, as much as I love the name, I didn’t like the tongue twister with Ariela. I looked back through Hebrew names and family names, and Ruben kept catching my attention. I was hooked. I liked the repeated “r” sound with my daughter’s name, the nickname Rue, the workability in Spanish and English, the familiarity but uncommonness, the adorable old-man feel in English and the sharpness of the name in Spanish. I struggled with whether or not to use a family name but ultimately decided to honor Ida B. Wells for a boy as well.

The literal meaning of Ruben, “Behold a Son”, became a running joke for us because the ultrasound looked so much like me that everyone was sure we were having a girl. The doctor laid him on my chest, and, behold, we did have a son. Meet Ruben Wells.

K

Swistle:
I had a plan: I was going to go into labor, meet this baby, and pick out a name once we could look it in the eye. Then, social isolation madness hit my husband, and he has spent the last two weeks of coming up with name lists, brackets, rankings, reading multiple name books cover-to-cover, and worrying that we don’t a plan. For the sake of household sanity, could you and your readers weigh in and save us from each other?

This is baby #1 (and probably only), and is due first week of June. Baby is of surprise sex.

The challenge(s):
1) I’m Hispanic-Irish, my husband is Arab. This baby will be raised in a tri-lingual home, and will have immediate family who only speak Spanish or Arabic. I have a classic Irish name (Caitlin), but most of my life have gone by Catalina (the Spanish translation); or the nicknames Cate/Cati (CAH-tea). It doesn’t drive me crazy, but I’d rather give my kid ONE name that they could use with their whole family, if possible.
2) Baby will get a double-barrel last name- R0ss S@m@@n.
3) We have a strong preference for non-Bibilical/Torah/Quran names, as we’re both non-religious people in very religious families.
4) Middle names aren’t a thing in his family/culture, and I am already overwhelmed picking a first name, so options we’re leaning toward are “none” or “my favorite nurse during the delivery” or joke noun like “Trouble/Danger/Adventure”.

Girl name we both like:
Cora: neither of us is CRAZY about this name, but we’re both happy with it as the overwhelming frontrunner for a girl.

Also on his list:
Amani
Leila
Linnea
Lucy
Norah
Willa
Yasmin

Also on my list:
Xiomara: CEE-oh-mah-rah (This doesn’t really work in English or in Arabic, or with our last names, but it’s my favorite name of all time.)
Ruth

Boy names we both like:
??

On his list:
Amir
Tariq
Theo

On my list:
Calvin
Oscar

I am definitely the person in this naming partnership who keeps shooting down ideas, so if I’m being ridiculous, feel free to tell me.
Thanks for any guidance you can throw our way-
Cate and Khaled

I almost didn’t answer this one, because it seems too easy for a girl, and too difficult for a boy (I don’t know how names would be pronounced in Spanish/Arabic). But I kept seeing it in the spreadsheet and at least wanting to do the easy part.

If the baby is a girl, the baby’s name is Cora Xiomara R0ss S@m@@n. You both agree on Cora, so I will assume it meets all the requirements about sounding right in the applicable languages. And it’s a great name, and you’re both happy with it. Then, it sounds like your husband doesn’t have any investment/interest in the middle name, and your favorite name of all time can’t be a contender for the first name, so let’s put it as the middle name so you can enjoy it there. I think you would be very happy every time you filled out a form for her, and X. is an extremely cool middle initial.

From your boy name lists, my favorites are Theo from his and Calvin from yours. I’m not crazy about how Oscar blends with the surname: the -r/R- issue plus the Os-/-0ss/S@- issue, but that sort of thing can be very subjective.

I assume since they’re on your lists that Theo and Calvin both meet the no-Bibilical/Torah/Quran requirement, but just in case it is important, I want to point out that name elements such as theo/thea/teo/tea are commonly considered to mean “God” (Theodore and Dorothea and Matteo and even Matthew are all considered to mean “gift from God”); and certain religious denominations would make an immediate leap from Calvin to John Calvin and Calvinism. I don’t think this should rule either name out: I am not a fan of name “meanings” beyond the pure fun aspect of it, and I didn’t know who John Calvin was until I was in college fulfilling my religious-studies course requirement. I still think Calvin & Hobbes and Calvin Klein long before I think of John Calvin, and would never assume a Calvin was named for John Calvin. But these things fall for me into the “not in any way a dealbreaker, but I would still like to have thought of them beforehand” category.

I think your husband’s girl-name list shows more potential for compromise than yours, and so if the two of you don’t want to follow my bossy instruction to use Cora Xiomara, I wonder if you might experiment with leaning toward your husband’s list if the baby is a girl, and toward your list if the baby is a boy. Are there names on your husband’s girl-name list that you could fall for, if you played the “What if I HAD to choose one of them?” game? Could he feel content with the name Calvin, if the baby were a boy?

I also wondered just briefly if you might want use R0ss as a first name for a boy. I think it is so fun when one parent’s surname works as a first name. But I hate to give up the double surname. I think I like the surname-as-first-name option better in cases where otherwise one parent’s surname would not be a significant part of the child’s name.

Name update:

Swistle:
One of your commenters suggested the name “Samir” and my husband looked at me and said “That’s it, that’s the name”.
Samir Felix R0ss S@m@@n arrived on his due date, and has been an extraordinarily calm baby since.
Thank you ladies- your conversation was really helpful, and found us a perfect name for our boy: a name from his Arab heritage, easy to pronounce in Spanish, got an easy Anglo nickname if he wants it, and we can call him Sami while he’s little and squishy.

Cait, Khaled, and Samir

Hi, Swistle!

You and your amazing readers helped me mull over the name for my 3rd “and last” baby back in 2018, but now I have a new last baby (for sure this time) to name who should be arriving the first week of June. And what a great time it is to have a baby! Nothing to worry about at all, except for the name, right?

All the kid’s last names are kind of like “Nordson”, which they share with their dad. I am Becca and my husband is Don. The kids are Warren, Lee and Hugh. We do not know the baby’s sex for sure this time due to the baby not cooperating very well, but during a brief moment of cooperation the sonographer and I agreed it sort of looked like it could be a girl. I think we have the name we want for a boy mostly figured out anyway, so I want to talk about girl names.

I have loved names forever, but I am currently unenthused.

We had agreed to Athena, Don’s favorite since forever, but I don’t actually like it. I see what there is to like about the name, but I don’t like the “theen” sound, or the A–a format, or the way it has shot up the popularity charts. Also, a goddess name seems like too much compared to the more down to earth feeling I think my other kid’s names have. I thought I would maybe call her Nina as a nickname, but actually I really want to love her full name. Don doesn’t want just Nina.

My favorite girl name is Leona, but we can’t use it because of big bro Lee. I like that it is simple but pretty with a sort of Wonder Woman vibe for me. Don likes it too, so too bad we can’t use it.

We both like Fay/e, but I don’t know about another 1 syllable name. Lee, Hugh and Fay sound funny together. Another strike is that Don had a grandma named Fay who we would not be intentionally honoring. I also worry that it maybe has a Southern feeling that we are not going for.

Mary is another one we have both liked for a long time that suddenly seems a little lackluster to me, especially with the last name.

Meryl is what we agreed to name a daughter back we we were first dating (as teens, eek!). Warren was the boy name, so it’s kind of a cute idea to end up using both. Don would be OK with it, but not excited. I feel the same except for the sentimentality.

Muriel is one we almost agreed to. I like the meaning and origin (means bright sea and is an ancient Celtic name). I worry it isn’t pretty enough- it seems to get a lot of hate. I think Don feels the same because he keeps suggesting Murielle instead, then saying “or Muriel, whatever”. I don’t like the pronunciation of the alternative spelling: mure-YELL. I don’t think we will use this one.

I am not too worried about the middle name right now, but I like the idea of Rebecca after me. We’ll get to that later, though.

I am getting distressed. I have no more ideas and only 8 weeks left! What would you and your readers suggest?

I think Mary would be a surprisingly fresh choice. There was a Mary in preschool with one of my kids, and I remember the first time I heard that was her name, leaping from “not even really seeing that name in the baby name book” to “!!!!”

Other names I have encountered on babies or little children that gave me that same little shock:

Betsy
Colleen
Ellen
Harriet
Lynn (seems too similar to Lee)
Ruth (seems too similar to Hugh)
Susan (maybe too soon for another long-U sound)

And I haven’t seen it on a person yet, but the other day Miss Grace mentioned the name Bonnie and I had that same “!!!!” reaction. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Bonnie. Bonnie Rebecca Nordson. I love it.

I don’t think it seems weird to add another one-syllable name such as Faye (though I see what you mean when I say the sibling names all together). But I would cross it off the list because of the grandma you wouldn’t be intending to honor; that seems awkward (though I think it could be figured out if you really loved the name and wanted to use it). I wondered about Kay/Kaye, instead. I like the look of Kay/Kaye more than the sound of it: it sounds like the initial “K.” to me when I say it. Maybe May? Warren, Lee, Hugh, and May. Well, now I am re-thinking the one-syllable thing, but I don’t know if that’s just because I was looking for it. It might not be the number of syllables; it might be more that we need some more strong consonant sounds in there after the softer sounds of Lee and Hugh. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Claire. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Jean. Hm. I can’t tell.

I think Athena is a little odd in the sibling group, but on the other hand it’s pretty common for parents to have different naming styles for boys and for girls, so it’s not the shock it would be if you had Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Apollo. If you weren’t considering using your own name as her middle name (an idea I LOVE, and I wish it were as common in our culture to use the mother’s name as it is to use the father’s), I would suggest using Athena as the middle name. But I have fastened onto the idea of using your name, and cannot let it out of my clutches.

Leona makes me think of Lois. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Lois. Lois Rebecca Nordson. I love that.

I wonder if you’d like Sally? Warren, Lee, Hugh and Sally. Sally Rebecca Nordson. Ug, I love that too.

Or Polly? Polly used to be a nickname for Mary, though that is less commonly known now. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Polly. Polly Rebecca Nordson.

Or Peggy. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Peggy. Peggy Rebecca Nordson. That gives my heart a little pang. I am not sure if I would use Margaret as the given name and Peggy as the nickname, or go straight to the given name Peggy. Probably I would use Margaret, but that’s at least in part because I also love the name Margaret.

Is Claudia too many syllables? Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Claudia. Claudia Rebecca Nordson.

I wonder if the name Marian would give the name Mary a little boost. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Marian. Marian Rebecca Nordson. Marian Nordson has an -n/N- situation, but it just leads to the name being a little N-heavy, rather than leading to confusion or awkwardness.

I like Agatha with the sibling names. And I notice that although it isn’t at all like Athena in style, and I wouldn’t usually think to recommend the name Agatha to someone who had Athena on their list, the names DO have some things in common, letter- and sound-wise. That is, I wouldn’t say to your husband, “You like Athena—how about Agatha?,” but I might say, “How about Agatha? …Oh, and this is an interesting coincidence: it has an A- and a -th- and an -a and three syllables like Athena.” Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Agatha. Agatha Rebecca Nordson.

Louise is another warm name to me. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Louise. Louise Rebecca Nordson.

Oh, or FERN! What about Fern? I don’t know if I like the sound of Fern Nordson, though: that’s a lot of R and N. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Fern.

You mentioned a Wonder Woman vibe, which made me wonder if you’d like Wonder Woman’s first name: Diana. Warren, Lee, Hugh, and Diana. Diana Rebecca Nordson.

Name update:

Hi! Our last baby and first daughter was born a few days ago, and she has a name! We finally settled on Muriel. I realized that I do think it is a pretty name, and was too worried about random peoples’ negative opinions I had read on the internet before. Don loves it too, and was not sometimes using an alternate pronunciation intentionally, he just does that 😅.
I was alone at the hospital the whole time, and wasn’t sure what we agreed on for the middle name so she has 2! Muriel Athena Rebecca Nordson is home now and the whole family is doing great.

Dear Swistle,

We want to name our baby girl-to-be after my grandmothers. She’s our first child, so no siblings. She’s due this fall. We don’t know yet what her last name will be, since my husband and I have different last names, but it will be either Black or Cohen.

Together, my grandmothers’ names were: Geulah (pronounced Guh-oo-lah), Rose (nickname Ronnie), and Naomi. We would be happy with a combination of any two of the three names for the first and middle name, but want the first name to be after either Geulah or Rose. We don’t need the names to be the same as my grandmothers’ names, just similar enough to know who the baby is named after.

We don’t want to use the name Geulah, but like the idea of a name that starts with G and has an L in it. I was looking at names and found the name Geila (pronounced Guy-lah), which I think is beautiful (and my husband likes too), but we worry it might be too hard to pronounce and people might pronounce it Gay-lah (we live in the US). We don’t really like the name Gail.

We like the name Rose as a middle name, but not as a first name (similar for Naomi), but again don’t need the baby to have the exact same name as her great-grandmothers.

Generally, we want to avoid names that are too trendy or too common, but also don’t want to name our child something that no one can pronounce or understand. Our minds are spinning trying to think of good name options, and I love your advice so I was hoping you’d have suggestions for good name combinations! Thank you!

At first glance this looks like an interesting and solvable math puzzle: Here are three names A, B, and C; you want to use any two of the three; the first name must be either A or B; the middle name can be A, B, or C. We can almost picture the show-your-work area of our math worksheets, where we would have to write the equation and remember to indicate that after we choose the first name we need to remove that option for the middle name. This is going to be fun!

We begin working. Let’s see. The first name must be A or B—but A is difficult and you don’t want to use it as-is, and other versions of it are either similarly difficult or else you don’t like them. Well, okay, that’s simple enough: we will use B! …Oh, but you don’t want to use B as the first name. Hm. *scribbles and erases* *thinks* *scribbles and erases* *thinks* *raises hand to ask the teacher for help*

You want to honor your grandmothers by using their names, but you don’t actually want to use their names as first names. This is a completely understandable situation, and it happens to many, many parents. One common option is for parents to use an honor name they don’t like as the middle name, and choose a name they DO like as the first name. A second option is to use a name they don’t like as the first name, but use it with a nickname they DO like (Geulah/Lula, Rose/Ronnie, Naomi/Mimi). A third option is to give up on honoring grandparents in this way, and instead honor them in other ways. My favorite for you is the first option: choose a name you like as the first name, and use one of the three grandmother names as the middle name. If you’re planning to have more children, save the extra names for them.

Or there’s that other option you mentioned, which is to look for substitutes for the names. That’s a path I normally avoid, because I feel it dilutes the honor so much. My own name is Kristen; if a baby were named Kinsley after me, I wouldn’t feel that was any connection at all to my name, even though it starts with K and has an I, S, an E, AND an N in it just like my name. But my opinion on this is far from universal, so let’s look for some names that start with G:

Gabrielle
Gaia
Galen
Galina
Garnet
Geneva
Genevieve
Georgia
Gia
Gianna
Gillian
Gloria
Goldie
Grace
Greta
Guinevere
Gwen
Gwendolyn
Gwynne

None of these seem to me to capture the essence of Geulah; the ones that seem closest to me are Gaia, Galina, Georgia, and Gloria. I wonder if there just aren’t enough G names to find what we’re looking for. Maybe a name like Julia or Abigail or Lula or Twila or Tallulah or Eulalie would be more reminiscent. Julia Rose Cohen. Abigail Naomi Black.

If I encountered the name Geila, my first two attempts would be rhymes-with-Layla and rhymes-with-Sheila. I would not get to the Guy sound without help. Let’s see if we can think of some words/names where -ei- is pronounced like long-I; that’s usually what I need to help me across a pronunciation hurdle. I thought of Heidi and Lorelei and Eileen and Reilly—but those aren’t helping enough in the face of Reid and Ryleigh and Leighton. Geiger and Geisel should REALLY help—but I’m thwarted by geisha. My eye also skips from the Ge to the L, making me think of gel and compromising what I know must be a hard-G.

The name Geila is completely unused in the U.S. right now, and that is probably the heart of my problem: if I KNEW a Geila, it wouldn’t take me long to remember how to pronounce it. The first few times I would say to myself “Like Eileen!,” and then after that it would just seem natural, the same way I’m able to remember Lorelei and Leighton and Leigh without mnemonics. But if I were the one named Geila, who had to be the first Geila everyone met, I think I would get very tired of pronouncing and spelling my name.

For these and other reasons, my inclination has been to stick to Rose and Naomi. Naomi Rose is gorgeous—but you don’t want to use Naomi as the first name. So, Rose Naomi. But you don’t want to use Rose as the first name. So then let’s look for Rose-like names:

Azalea
Cosette
Dahlia
Flora
Hazel
Iris
Josie
Primrose
Romy
Rosa
Rosalie
Rosaline
Rosella
Rosemary
Rosie
Rowan
Ruby
Violet
Zinnia

Plus all the double-name options: Emma Rose, Ella Rose, Anna Rose, Mia Rose. Would Mia Rose or Mimi Rose or Noa Rose seem like Naomi + Rose? Would Lula Rose or Julia Rose seem like Geulah + Rose? Would Rose Noelle seem like Rose + Naomi?

Or would you want to work with Ronnie? You could go Rose —> Ronnie —> Veronica.

Or what about this option: a name you like as the first name, then pick TWO grandmother names as middle names, but use them as they are. FirstName Naomi Rose Surname. Or Firstname Geulah Rose Surname. Or whatever combination sounds best with the chosen first name and chosen surname.

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

I wanted to update you on the name we ended up choosing for our daughter: your post and the comments were all very helpful, and we ended up going with the name mentioned in the very first comment (and others!). We’re Jewish, so it’s common to have a name variation to honor someone. Our daughter’s full name is Galia Ruth Cohen Black. We were able to get the G-L and similar meaning for the first name, and an “R” for the middle name (and we gave her both of our last names!). We decided that Galia, while it isn’t common in the US, sounds like “Talia” so will be recognizable enough. For her middle name, we were going to use the name “Rose”, but Ruth Bader Ginsburg died just before she was born so in honor of her we changed our daughter’s middle name last minute (literally–we decided this in the hospital the day she was born!).

Thank you again!

Hi Swistle,

My husband and I are expecting our first baby in early August and it’s a girl! Her last name will be Rock-with-an-L.

Because of our surname I’ve always thought I would try to steer away from single syllable names and other word names.

Even before we were married and anywhere near trying for kids, our girl name was always Veronica. It’s still on our list but after it being “the name” for a hypothetical baby for so long it’s started to lose its appeal to my husband but I am not ready to give up on it quite yet.

The name we both love and are leaning towards using is Rose. Naturally, it goes against all my “rules”. It is one syllable, and it is another word name. Does Rose Rock-with-an-L sound too choppy? More importantly does it sound like a description? A rose coloured lock, or a rose shaped lock? Or am I over thinking it?

The other girl name we considered is Josephine/Josie but decided we liked Rose and Veronica enough to leave the list at those two options.

She will have two middle names: Kelly (my middle name, and my moms maiden name) and Zofia (Sophie in polish after my husbands grandmother)

Rose Kelly Zofia Rock-with-an L
Or
Veronica Kelly Zofia Rock-with-an-L

Our boy names were Declan, Henry, Calvin, and Jack (unusable with Rose obviously) but didn’t really have a clear front runner before we found out the gender.

Thanks for your help! I will send an update when she arrives!

I think those are both terrific options. I don’t think Rose Rock-with-an-L sounds too nouny; it does sound nouny, but it doesn’t sound to me like it describes anything. I think it sounds nice, and memorable in only a good way, and I like the way it LOOKS too: two 4-letter words, both with an O as the second letter. Excellent name. I love it.

But Veronica! Oh, I love it TOO. And with the surname! I perish.

How will you choose? HOW WILL YOU CHOOSE?? I really think the only solution is to have two girls so you can use both names.

Let’s have a poll on Twitter; it’s not perfect, but it’s what we’ve got. Go to the poll on Twitter [poll closed; see results below:]

Name update:

Thanks for posting our question/your suggestions! Rose Zofia Kelly was born earlier this month and Her name suites her perfectly! We’ve been calling her Rose, Rosie and Rosie Posie so far :)

Hi!! We are expecting our 3rd and likely final baby (a girl) in June. We already have a son Judson and a daughter Willa. We are drawn to more vintage names that are not common but familiar. Our last name sounds like “Taylor.” We can’t seem to decide on the one!

I really love the name Goldie but think it may be strange if our baby is born with dark hair. (Our son is brunette and daughter are blonde so theres a 50/50 shot. Thoughts? We have thought about Marigold with the nn option of Goldie but not sure if it goes with siblings’ names.

Here are some other names we have tossed around:
Flora
Rosie
Daisy
Clementine
Delilah
Hazel
Siena

Middle name will likely be Lennon to honor a family member.

Would love your thoughts on Goldie and other potential names to complete our sibset!

Thank you!!
Caroline

I am intrigued by questions of name/appearance. This question has come up with other such potentially-interpreted-as-descriptive names (Rudy for non-redhead, Ruby Rose for a redhead, Annie for a redhead, why can I only think of redhead-related examples), and what I find intriguing is that the question can go either way: i.e., we can equally well ask if it is odd if a child named Goldie DOES have golden hair or if she DOESN’T. Like, maybe it starts to seem a little too much like those old stories in which three sisters have white, brown, and black horses named, respectively, Whitey, Brownie, and Blackie; or maybe it’s like if someone had a brown horse named Blackie.

Well. I know hair genes are complicated (and also this is a name blog, but I am feeling caffeinated and chatty so let’s have a digression), but it is my impression from casual observation that a lot of kids with blonde hair grow up to have brown hair, particularly if there are any brown-hair genes in the family. That is, my Norwegian friend’s family has blonde kids who will all likely be blonde as adults, because my friend and her husband are both blonde as adults. But in my family, where Paul and I both had versions of blonde hair as children but now his hair is dark brown and mine is light brown, I didn’t expect any of our blonde children to make it to adulthood with blonde hair. If it is similar in your family, and I think it must be if you have a dark-haired child, then the question of whether it’s odd to have a non-blonde person named Goldie is pertinent no matter what color hair she’s born with.

My own feeling is that I think I would RATHER use the name Goldie on someone who was not likely to have blonde hair. On a blonde person, the name Goldie reminds me in a small way of the nickname Blondie: descriptive in a way that could seem reductive. On a person with any other color of hair, it clicks in as a Bobbsey Twins / jazz era nickname name like Flossie and Dixie.

I love the name Marigold, and I love having more options for names/nicknames. However, if you’re only considering Marigold to get to Goldie, I don’t think that’s necessary. Judson, Willa, and Goldie; Judson, Willa, and Marigold. Those are both good combinations.

However, the stand-out name to me from your list is Flora. It goes beautifully with Willa, and has no issues with hair color or being nicknamey. Judson, Willa, and Flora.

Name update:

Hi! I wanted to send an update to share that we welcomed our beautiful daughter,
Marigold (Goldie) Lennon on 6/17/20.

She was born with a full head of dark hair and just knew she was “Goldie” no matter what color her hair is/will be. We love Marigold and love that she’ll have more name options.

Thank you so much for all of your help naming our girl!

Caroline

Hello!

I’m due this summer with my second child, a girl, and my husband and I are in the throws of the great name debate of 2020. Our first, named Madeline, nn Maddie, and a mutual decision and we both love her name. This time around, we have two different top choices, and very few names are jumping out at us. To complicate matters, we both love a good nickname, but I’m getting a little sick of the “ie” names, which is a little limiting.

My top choice:
Juliet (nn Jules or Jet (is this a stretch? I think its fun))

His top choice:
Chloe
Virginia (nn Ginny)

Other names we like:
Penelope (nn Penny/Poppy)
Gabrielle/Gabriella (nn Gabby)
Savannah

We do not want a name that starts with a B, E, or V (I feel more strongly on this than he does). Any other recs? Thank you so much!

The only name standing out to me as an odd choice with Madeline is Virginia—and I’m not sure I can even put a finger on why. Visually they’re so nice together: approximately the same length, a nice overlap/difference in letters. Part of it is the startling usage gap: Maddie/Addie names have enjoyed a surge of popularity in recent years, while the Ginny/Jenny names are having a well-earned rest. The name Virginia has been almost completely off of my own personal name radar (which may mean it is due for a big comeback soon), but I hear about Maddies all the time. It gives me a personal feeling of Name Difference that may have nothing to do with the actual compatibility of the names; these impressions are so dependent on the particular names in our particular social circles.

Still, from your husband’s list, Chloe makes a lot more sense to me: like Maddie/Addie names, it is enjoying some popularity right now. “Maddie and Chloe” seems right as a sister set. A downside of Chloe is that it doesn’t have a natural nickname; another downside is you mention being a little tired of -ie names, and it has that sound.

I like the way the name Juliet spins the name Madeline: from contemporary favorite to vintage charm. Madeline and Chloe are current sisters; Madeline and Juliet could be in a historical novel. They’re visually appealing to me together. There’s still a bit of a popularity gap. Hm. I’m aware of how very subjective all this is, but if you’re asking for our own personal opinions, and you are, I like Madeline/Maddie with Juliet/Jules best of the options discussed so far. I think Jet is one of those cool nicknames that depends on the child: on some kids it’s not going to sit comfortably, and on others it’ll be a natural fit.

I think your whole “other names we like” list is great. I don’t have a sense for how far down your preference list those are: is it that Juliet is by far your first choice and Virginia/Chloe are by far your husband’s first choices, and the other names are only technically in the running; or are you both pretty prepared to forsake your own favorites for the joint favorites? Madeline and Penelope, Madeline and Gabrielle, Madeline and Savannah—those all make sense to me as sisters. There are some nickname options if you want to avoid the -ie/-y sound: Nell for Penelope, Ella for Gabrielle/Gabriella, Vanna/Anna for Savannah.

More names to consider, if you haven’t already:

Abigail/Abby
Amelia/Mia
Annabel/Anna/Bella
Audrey
Charlotte/Charlie/Lottie
Clarissa
Eloise (I like the literary tie-in, but it starts with E)
Grace
Josephine/Josie/Posey
Katherine/Kate
Laurel
Lucy
Noelle/Ella
Nora
Rosalie/Rose/Rosie
Sabrina/Bri/Bree

I included a few that don’t have good nicknames. Part of the reason was that I wondered if a solution to “we love a good nickname”/”we’re tired of the -ie thing” might be a standalone name with a nicknamey quality: Lucy and Nora, for example, can be used as they are or can be used as nicknames, so maybe they satisfy the nickname urge as they are. (Though of course Lucy still ends in the -ie sound, so maybe that gets us nowhere.) And part of the reason was that sometimes even if a name isn’t Right, it can remind people of OTHER names that ARE right.

Name update: Juliet (Jet)

Hi Swistle!

I am due with my second baby in June. We don’t know the sex, but if it is a girl my husband and I both love the first name Willa. In debating middle names, we’ve somewhat settled on Katherine. However, my question is: Does Willa Katherine sound too much like Willa Cather, the famous author? Does it matter? I know she’s not incredibly well-known today, but I feel like those who know, know, and she’s definitely history’s most famous Willa.

If the general consensus is yes I would love some other suggestions for a middle name that sounds nice with Willa. I feel like the middle name has to be somewhat sophisticated – for example, I love the middle name June, but Willa June started to sound a little too “down on the farm” for me. I hope that’s ok to say.

My older daughter’s name is Alice. Our last name rhymes with Fenwick. Would love your opinion and help with other options!

Best,

Emily

For me, Willa Katherine strongly evokes Willa Cather—enough so that it almost has a jokey/wordplay sound to me. But I do a lot of reading and I work in a library, so I might not be representative. I wonder if for most people, the association would just make the name sound right, without them knowing why it seemed to go together so well.

Whether it matters is another topic, and depends on things like whether you think the middle name will be used much, and whether you’d be pleased or annoyed by people mentioning the association to you / thinking you did it on purpose / thinking you did it accidentally. Do you think you’d want to call her “Willa Katherine,” or do you think you’d always call her Willa and the Katherine part would disappear between the birth announcement and high school graduation?

If it were me, I would want to find another option–but with regret, because Willa is a little tricky to find a middle name for, and Katherine is such a lovely fit with it.

Willa Bethany
Willa Caroline
Willa Celeste
Willa Claire
Willa Constance
Willa Cordelia
Willa Eleanor
Willa Florence
Willa Frances
Willa Genevieve
Willa Harriet
Willa Margaret
Willa Noelle
Willa Rosalie
Willa Violet

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

I wanted to give you a name update on the Willa Katherine/Cather situation – I had a big healthy baby boy! Ha! It was extra exciting because a doctor had referred to the baby as “her” during an ultrasound (after explicitly saying she would use the male pronoun) then apologized, all flustered. So I was certain it was a girl, and the eventual surprise was even more exciting since I have an older daughter. I contacted the doctor afterwards thinking I had read too much into her reaction and she confirmed, no, she got it wrong and thought he WAS a girl! So lots of surprises all around. Oh, and his name is Benjamin James, and he goes by Bennie :).

Thanks for including my email on the blog!

Emily