F. writes:

We are expecting our first child, a boy, the first week of August, in less than a month. He is still nameless, and this starting to worry both my husband and I.

I never thought it would take me so long to name my child. I have been interested in and besotted with baby names for as long as I can remember. It’s a great honor and a huge responsibility. Exciting on a good day, and terrifying and depressing on a bad day. Thanks, pregnancy hormones.

His surname will my husband’s: it sounds like Jelens.

A few criteria: His: no L; a good one-syllable nickname. Mine: no J; something that will work (more or less) in English, German and French; not too popular, although if I fell in love with a name, I wouldn’t care.

My list has mostly old-fashioned names, some baby books might put many of them in the “Ladies and Gentlemen” section: Henry, Arthur, Walter, Willem, Casper, Homer, Theodore (Teo!). I don’t like all of these to the same degree, but you get the idea.

He has vetoed every single one of them, mainly because they’re “old man names”. (Which they’re not!)

He likes:

Joshua

Zachary (Zach). I’m the one who suggested this very early on. I’m not convinced.

Nicander (Nico, Nick). This has special significance for him. I’m warming to the idea, but I’m not sold. Is Nicander strange? Or does it sound familiar enough because of Alexander, Leander? I like Nico as a nn, but that’s getting really popular.

Kai. I’m not fully opposed. We both like its internationalism and multiple meanings.

Tyler (Ty), Skyler (Sky), Ryder (Ry)… there’s a pattern here. I’m not a fan.

We both sort of like Milo, too. I don’t object to Nicander and Kai.

The middle name might be a family name, from my side or his, depending on who got more say in the first name department. We’ll deal with that once we have a first.

For reference, my girl-list would have been: Louise, Greta, Adele, Frieda, Mathilda, Camille, Minna, Agatha. He really dislikes most of these.

His would have been: Miranda, Calliope.

I know that there will have to be a compromise. Should we scratch all these and start over? I feel like we’re all over the place. Any feedback and help from Swistle and her wonderful commentators is appreciated.

 
It seems to me that men more often than women have trouble updating what a “current” baby name is. I remember Paul’s name ideas being pretty much all the names of his former classmates.

I suggest Isaac. I think of it as “the next Zachary” (and in fact it can use Zac as a nickname), and it’s a name that occasionally gets called old-mannish even though it’s well into the Top 50. Or “the next Noah”: a name that seems biblical but is in fact already mainstreamed. Another nickname possibility is Ike, which is similar in sound to Ty, Sky, Ry, Kai. I love it with your surname: Isaac Jelens. And I think it goes well with many of the girl name possibilities, in case he has a sister some day: Isaac and Louise, Isaac and Miranda, Isaac and Mathilda.

Since you like Arthur and you both like Milo, I suggest Arlo. No good nickname, sadly.

If Arlo is a little too uncommon, I suggest Archer. It has the NOT-old-man sound of a name like Archie or Arthur, but with a surname/occupational sound that’s very current. Again, nickname problem: Archie is great, but it’s two syllables instead of one.

I think the nickname Nic/Nick saves Nicander from seeming too odd to use. Another huge plus is being able to say “Like Alexander, but with Nic instead of Alex.” This is the first time I’ve encountered the name and I don’t know if it’s nih-CAN-der or NIH-can-der (I would guess nih-CAN-der because of the Alexander model), but I think I’d only need to hear it once to remember it. If I heard it without seeing it, I’d be pretty sure I knew how to spell it; I might put a K in there, but it looks more right to me without a K.

The main consideration, I think, is future sibling names: if you name your first child Nicander, will you be painting yourself into a corner? Nicander is either completely or virtually unused in the U.S. (it’s hard to tell for sure: it isn’t in the Social Security site‘s data base for the past five years or so I looked at—but that data base doesn’t show any name used fewer than five times in a year, so there could be, say, 4 Nicanders born per year and it would look the same as if it were zero), and so if you’d like to use compatible sibling names, that will present a commonness/style-compatibility challenge right away. Nicander and Arlo might work, or maybe Nicander and Kai—but probably not Nicander and Joshua, or Nicander and Tyler. If you wanted to change the middle name concept from “family name” to “name of special significance,” Nicander might make a wonderful middle name choice—while still letting you use family names for future siblings.

Name update! F. writes:

Nicander Ferdinand “Pattner” “Jelens” was born on Aug. 4th 2011.
We decided that Nicander was familiar sounding (not made-up), and the more my husband and I talked about names, the more I grew to love it. I tested it with potential sibling names, and it seems okay to pair it with more traditional names. Most people have not had trouble with it (if they do a simple “like Alexander, or Leander” provides instant clarity). Some people think it sounds Scandinavian, and our Greek and Italian friends think it’s fabulous. (Nicander of Colophon was a Greek poet and physician, and Nicandro is an Italian patron saint.)
Ferdinand is my paternal grandfather’s middle name, Nicander is his first great-grandchild and he is tickled pink. I’ve always thought that Ferdinand was a pleasing, quirky, unconventional name. His second middle name “Pattner” is my surname.
The name fits our little Nick perfectly. He’s a happy baby, and sleeping well at night, too, which keeps his parents on the sane side.
Thanks again, Swistle and friends!

Jenn writes:

Hello!! I should have written sooner, but I don’t know – I thought we’d come to a few names on our own? But, this is not a drill… our 2nd baby will be here in 2-3 weeks; this is serious business. I don’t know how you would even publish the mess that I’m about to go through, but I’d love your help in one way or another. Even if you decide what part of my question you want to answer, I know the following is a ton. PS I said on twitter – it’s going to be convoluted, consider yourself warned – though maybe just long winded is a better description?!

Here’s our story:

Our first daughter’s name is Lilliana Avery Guarraseemo (not really our last name but close enough to give you the sound of it – I know doozy). We call her Lilli, though I always envisioned Ellie for a nickname, I know it’s a stretch. BUT L – Elle/ but since you don’t call people just one letter? Go with Elle or Ellie – anyway I’m the only one that calls her that, it never really caught on. Her name both first and middle are mixtures or derivatives of great grandmothers & grandfathers (Avery is a derivative of Alfred, for example). I LOVE the family connection, but with baby 2 just moments away, we might need to step away from that, because I need something I just love. Lily was always a name I have loved, my great grandmother, Lillian – was always a name I wanted to use. I did not, however, realize at the time how freaking popular Lily/Lilly would be – and the way we spell it kind of just happened it wasn’t meant to be annoying or different on purpose? It kind of just started to be the way we wrote it, so we aren’t really trying to take names that are spelled one way and throw a wrench in it. It’s kind of annoying considering one of things we did want was to avoid super common names (coming from a Jennifer & Christopher born in the 70s – which is everyone’s name born around then – I do believe).

Another fan favorite name was Jackson (again don’t love how popular it is) but I love the sound of Jax – and my father-in-law’s name is John – so that brought in a connection (of sorts) – and middle name to be Cole (for Coleman, my maiden name). My sister-in-law unfortunately just snagged Jack though, so it can’t be done now. But I do still love the name… for reference.

In terms of boys we were thinking: Jamison Cole (nickname: Jace) OR Owen Coleman.

I don’t know if I’m 100% on these. Apparently there is some kind of a show called 16 and Pregnant that people keep telling me about every time I say Jace… which will eventually go away – but side note, why do we put ourselves through the anguish of telling people names we are thinking?? Also, Owen is kind of popular and I would love to think of another name that ties in some kind connection to names like John or Jack that are uncommon? Although I did find something somewhere that Owen came from Evan, which actually is a version of John… which kind of in a long division/ degree of Kevin Bacon gets me my “family” connection. I could also use John as a middle name and get that connection if we need to, but not Owen John (OJ – no thanks). Owen isn’t really as long as I like a name- I love names to have TONS of nickname possibilities? I don’t know why – but it’s something I think about. That said, I am gravitating toward Owen, so maybe I’m more open to that rule than I think?

For girls, we love: Luella or Evalena.

The nickname for Luella we seem to be leaning toward Lulu – but I just feel like for our 2nd child, to have a Lilli & Lulu – it sounds like a kid’s clothing line – and for our Christmas Card we’ll all have to wear the same outfit on the beach … nothing wrong with this – but it’s not really who we are? It’s also like – can they use more than 2 letters? But I LOVE the name and I don’t know that can or want to go Ella for the nickname, again super popular? My mom’s name is Lucy, so this is a perfect connection to that. For Evalena – we love the nickname Lena… again with the L’s… it’s not ideal but I can’t walk away from them yet? We are stuck on middle names, if we use these names… though I’m open to different ones, in fact I feel like I need a dark horse to come in from nowhere.

For a middle name – I NEED some kind of variation for Mary or Claire – and Marie is NOT an option.

Names for boys & girls that we love that haven’t made the final list are:
Girls:
Sloane
Isla
Norah
Stella
Boys
Brody
Reid
Rhys
Jake
I know you said you give preference to boy OR girl name help request, but I’m not 100% on either I don’t think… and since I don’t know if it’s a boy OR a girl… I feel like I can’t choose – so if you have to choose, you go ahead and pick a section to share.

What the heck are my questions?
I basically have some names or some name thoughts, but none of them scream to me – THIS IS IT! I feel like with my first I had some strong contenders that I really thought – once we meet him/her one of these will be it – and it was. Now, I’m not sure!
I’m looking for a boy name – that is uncommon(ish), nickname possibilities are semi-important and if it had some kind connection to the name John or Joseph that would be great but I don’t think there is. Although we could maybe do middle name John in a case we pick up a totally different name.
For a girl, most certainly I need some kind of idea to tie in Mary, ideally – but not Marie. I do love Louella & Evelena as names… but again all the L’s and the nicknames might be TOO much for me so suggestions welcome.
OK – work your magic won’t you? Name my kid! (said in the same robust way as Ty Pennington in “Extreme Home Makeover” screams “Move that bus!” at the end of a makeover…

 
There are so many fun topics here, it is hard to know where to start! I will go with my impulse, which is to find a Mary-based middle name that is not Marie. Because you like Ella and Lena and Lulu, what leaps to mind is a Mary combination: Maryella, Marylena, Marylu. Depending on how far you want to go from the original name, there’s also Mara, Miriam (The Oxford Dictionary of First Names says Mary is the New Testament form of Miriam), Mair(e), Maris, Moira, Maura, Mariel, Marin, Marina. Most come from the same Latin root meaning “sea.” Maire combines Mary and Claire. I like Luella Marin and Evalena Mariel.

For the name Evalena, I suggest the nickname Evvie. It’s similar to Ellie without the Lilli/Ellie problem. Evalena Marylu Guarraseemo; Lilliana and Evalena; Lilli and Evvie. I have a feeling this name would lead to tons of cute nickname combinations: Lena Lu, Evvie Lu, etc.

To get away from names that have sounds in common with Lilliana/Lilli, I suggest Josephine. I like Josephine Mariel. This gives you the Joseph connection, but with cute nicknames like Jo and Josie. Lilliana and Josephine; Lilli and Josie. That’s my favorite solution, I think: two family tie-ins just like Lilli’s name, good nicknames but not too similar to each other.

Another possibility is Felicity (Fliss, Flip). I like Felicity Claire. Lilliana and Felicity; Lilli and Fliss. Possible problem if you end up with Lilli and Lissie.

Or Genevieve. Lilliana and Genevieve; Lilli and Evie.

Clarissa would give you a connection to Claire. Clarissa Maribel, maybe. Not very many nicknames (Lilli and Clare?), but it gets two family connections and I think Lilliana and Clarissa are very nice together.

Or Anastasia (Annie, Stacie). Lilliana and Anastasia; Lilli and Annie.

Or Emmaline. Lilliana and Emmeline; Lilli and Emmie.

Or Penelope (Penny, Nell). Lilliana and Penelope; Lilli and Penny or Lilli and Nellie if that’s not too similar.

For a boy, would you consider Coleman as a first name? I find the “mother’s maiden name as first name” idea totally charming. Coleman John, perhaps, or Coleman Jax.

To me, Jace is not a natural nickname for Jamison. After making mental note of both names, halfway through this sentence I still had to scroll back to remind myself what the full name was. If you don’t want to use Jace as the given name (Jace Coleman works particularly well, I think), Jacen would work as a full form. Jacen Coleman; Lilli and Jace.

Lilli and Owen sound like excellent sibling names to me.

Boy names with tons of nicknames are few and far between: our culture is more likely to do that with girl names than with boy names. The boy names that do have a lot of nicknames tend to be the old traditional ones that NEEDED a lot of nicknames because so many boys had that name—and they tend to still be common now, because there are so few of them to go around for everyone who likes lots of nicknames. William has Will and Bill and Liam. Nicholas has Cole and Nick and Nico. Alexander has Al and Alex and Xander and Xan. Robert has Rob and Bob and Robin and Bert. Edward has Ed and Ned and Ted. But I don’t think any of those names are your style, and/or they’re too common.

This is why you’re going in circles, I suspect. You’d like a name with lots of nicknames…but all the names with lots of nicknames are too common or not the right style. So you look for something less common…but it doesn’t have any good nicknames, or the name isn’t the right style. So you find some nicknames you like, but all the names associated with them are too common. And so on. I think there are three basic options here: (1) Choose a common name with lots of nicknames. (2) Choose an uncommon name with sparse or absent nicknames. (3) Choose an uncommon name and choose nicknames not usually associated with that name. With the third choice you will have plenty of company: lots of people are taking letters or sounds from names and making their own nicknames. You will find me an old stick-in-the-mud on the subject, however. My friend and fellow name aficionada Mairzy periodically has to take me aside and tell me gently that resisting a certain newly-used nickname is now officially a lost cause and it is time for me to stop being stubborn about it.

My first choice for you is Coleman, but my second choice is Nicholson. This adds an option 4 to my list above: (4) Modify a common, nickname-rich name to be less common. Nicholson is unusual, it makes a slight reference to your maiden name, and it has all the nicknames of Nicholas: Nick, Nico, Cole. It’s good with the sibling name: Lilliana and Nicholson; Lilli and Cole. Nicholson Joseph, maybe.

Another possibility is Wilson. Less common than William, but still gives you Will if you want it. But Lilli and Will may give you the same feeling as Lilli and Lulu. To me it doesn’t, I think because Will is one syllable and so traditional: I definitely notice the repeating -ill- when I type them both out, but for me it lands on the side of fun and appealing coincidence.

Robertson would be a more current version of the name Robert, giving you all the nicknames: Rob, Bob, Bert, Robin.

Redford would work, I think and it gives you both Red and Ford.

Name update! Jenn writes:

Hello! First, THANK YOU so much for helping me – I read through your response a few times and of course the comments. They helped us to think about different arrangements of names and keep playing around with some options. Your post & suggestions (like Josephine for a girl or a commenter saying to use John as a middle name) helped to narrow down some choices and inspire a new one! My husband threw this name out there 3 days before the big day and when we met her, we just knew it was the one…

Josslyn Jane arrived healthy and happy and perfect fit for her name! Attached is a picture of Joss & her big sis, Lilli. Thanks again!!

Staci writes:

My husband and I recently found out that we are expecting our second child in January 2012. We had a horrible time agreening on a name for our daugther, but settled on Meadow Alexis. We love the tranquility and playfullness that Meadow conjures. My husband is Italian, and our last name is Biondini (pronounced bee-on-dee-nee). He favors unusual names and Italian names. I tend to like names that have stood the test of time, but that are not super popular. There aren’t many Italian names that I like, as I feel like we already have strong Italian last name. Both of us like nature names. Our dog is named Sunny, and the other top contender for Meadow was Daisy. We both still agree on Daisy, but I am afraid it may be too much with Meadow, especially since they will be 14 months apart in age. Also, the middle name will probably be Anne, in honor of my mother.

Here are some girl names that I like, but that my husband does not care for:
– Willow (husband says it is too trendy because of Willow Smith and Willow Palin)
– Eden
– Charlie (as a nickname for Charlotte, or by itself)
– Emmet (nickname Emme)
– Isabel (nickname Bell, but probably would never use now due to the popularity of Isabella)
– Gillian
– Laurel
– Vivian

Names that my husband likes, but that I do not care for:
– Shiloh
– Rain
– Fiore

Could you help please help us come up with a playful, not too popular name for Baby Biondini number 2 that doesn’t sound like the hippie cousin of Meadow and Sunny?

I think what we are looking for here is WHIMSY: nothing too hippie, nothing too staid. The Baby Name Wizard recommends sister names Willow, Ember, Harmony, Winter, and Lark.

Lark doesn’t quite work for me because of the meadowlark, but I do like the concept of a bird name. Robin is hard to say with the surname, and it’s not as current a name as Meadow. Wren is another possibility. Phoebe is subtle: it’s a bird, but I don’t think of it as a bird. But again, I don’t think it’s good with the surname. I like Starling: it’s highly unusual but I think it would quickly seem familiar and easy. Meadow Alexis and Starling Anne.

Winter works in theory, but the contrast with what I imagine a meadow being like (warm sun, soft breezes, pretty flowers) makes the name Winter feel chilly and grey to me. Summer and Autumn would both work, and I wonder why hardly anyone uses Spring?

I think Story would work well, or Fable, or Haven, or Juniper.

One of my favorite whimsical names is Clover, but I’m not sure if it’s good with Meadow. On one hand I love it, but on the other hand clover seems like a subset of meadow—like using the name America for one child and Georgia for the next.

Another of my favorite whimsical names is Marigold. This SHOULD be exactly the same problem as Clover, but this just goes to show how very subjective name impressions are: to me, it’s a much smaller problem and maybe no problem at all. Perhaps because I think of clover as growing in meadows, but I don’t think of marigolds growing there? perhaps because they both start with M? I can’t explain it.

I think the name Serenity would be great with Meadow, but I hesitate to suggest that name: it could be such an ill fit for some personalities.

I like the cheerful sound of the name Brighton, but the -on ending makes it seem masculine to me. Perhaps Brighten? Brightly? But then it looks less like a name. Hm. No, I think Brighton is best. Brighton Anne.

Sierra is a nature name like Meadow: Meadow Alexis and Sierra Anne. For something less common: Vienna.

Or Liberty: Meadow Alexis and Liberty Anne.

Piper would be darling: Meadow Alexis and Piper Anne.

Or Padgett: Meadow Alexis and Padgett Anne.

You only mention girl names—are you also looking for boy names? Those feel less fun to me: there don’t seem to be as many whimsical boy names, and the nature names seem more serious: Stone and Flint rather than Marigold and Clover.

Archer
Arlo
Arrow
Baxter
Brighton
Casey
Chance
Haskell
Heath
Felix
Finley
Finnegan
Jacoby
Keegan
Kiefer
Lennox
Nico
Parker
Phoenix
River
Sawyer
Shepherd
Thatcher

Name update! Staci writes:

Our daughter, Aria Fable Biondini was born yesterday Feb. 1, weighing 7 lbs. 13 oz., and 21″. We are calling her Fable which is a name that either you or one of the commenters suggested. We think it is the perfect whimsical complement to big sister Meadow Alexis. Thanks for your help!

Cara writes:

I have a somewhat general question (with ulterior motives) for you and the lovely commenters. It’s clear to me that certain combinations of initials are best avoided, but when we discuss this issue we most often talk about names that result in three initials. What about names that have four initials (or, presumably, more)? If three of the initials spell something that we would avoid if there were only three initials, can the fourth initial fix the problem? Does it depend on the choice of the fourth initial or do we always see the three letters that we’re trying to avoid?

A mild example:

SAG seems best avoided. But what about JSAG or RSAG?

If you think the fourth initial solves the problem, would it also apply to a set of letters that spelled something more extreme?

I’m asking, of course, because my husband and I have been leaning toward a middle name that would give our child (due in a little over two weeks) the last three initials of FKR and I’m wondering if there’s any way to salvage the choice or if it’s a lost cause. The placement of letters is fixed, that is, it can’t be KFR instead. Clearly the first name couldn’t start with an M. But is there a letter that would work?

Thank you for your help!

I see it as a spectrum thing. At one end of the spectrum are the initials that don’t spell anything particularly bad (ER, MD, DOC, INK), where we might prefer to avoid them but if we really love a name it’s not worth giving it up just to avoid the initials. At the other end of the spectrum are the initials that are bad enough that we have to sacrifice names we love because it’s just too awful. (Different people will have different ideas of what’s intolerable, but some of my own would be the initials from names such as Abigail Sarah Smith, Gideon Andrew Young, Sarah Isabelle North, Kiley Katherine Kingston, Finn Alexander Greenfield, Felicity Anne Taylor.)

In between the two ends of the spectrum, it’s a matter of trading and balancing: of thinking “Would _I_ mind having these initials?” and “Is it worth it, or is this just one of many situations where a name we love is out of the running for reasons that are unlucky and unfair but it’s nothing A Feeling Of Injustice can change?”

Sometimes there’s an easy fix, like using a C spelling instead of a K spelling, or using one of the two names for one child and the other name for a future child, or your example of switching the names. The 4-initial idea is another such possibility, and I’d say it sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t: it depends on the severity of the Bad Initials, and also on which name is the fourth name. My children and I have four names, and I’ve found that the first of the two middle names is the default initial for one-initial situations unless I specify otherwise. So if the name were, for example, Abigail Sarah Harrison Smith, I would still hesitate to use it—though if I were determined to use Abigail Sarah no matter what, it’s a big improvement.

In your specific example (FKR), I’m not sure. I would want to avoid those letters, but I’m not POSITIVE I would have noticed them as I’m positive I would with, say, FUK or FCK. I do think this is a situation where a fourth initial would improve things, but I’m not sure if it improves things ENOUGH. I was going to have us examine a few possibilities, but of course it’s in our minds now so I’m seeing problems EVERYWHERE! Like, if you’d told me her initials were going to be AFKR, I don’t think I would have been able to see what the problem was—but I’m not SURE, because now that I’m thinking of it I’m seeing it as “a fkr”.

I DO THINK that if I wasn’t in the mindset, I wouldn’t be seeing a problem. EFKR. KFKR. RFKR. I think these work. I THINK.

But it is a matter of the trading and balancing mentioned earlier: it IS a little risky, and what if I’m wrong that adding that fourth initial makes the problem significantly less? So it comes down to how important it is to you to use the names. (And could the K name be spelled with a C? I think FCR is a little better than FKR.)

I think we need a poll here, but I suspect many of you will run into the problem I ran into: once the idea is planted, the letters stand out too much for a detached evaluation. I did a quick poll on Twitter, but unfortunately I used BFKR as the random example—and of course I was asking if there was a problem, which tips things. To me, the BF at the beginning had my mind going in the BFF direction. The overwhelming response on Twitter was, um, a different direction. Someone had a good point that a lot of us are getting used to textspeak, which leads us to be quicker to see words in partial-word letter combinations.

In any case, about 1 out of every 4 responses were that they didn’t see any problem with the initials, and about 3 out of 4 were VEHEMENT amused/horrified responses that they DID INDEED see a problem, with further jokes suggested. But several people mentioned that if they hadn’t been LOOKING, they wouldn’t have seen anything, or that they knew people with similarly problematic initials who reported never having the predicted problem (TheGoriWife knows a FRT who was aware of the potential problem but said it had never come up).

I asked if anyone could think of a first initial that would remove the problem, and most of the responses were again negative: people said no, it was the FKR they noticed immediately, and anything else either changed nothing or made it much worse. But Dashoff suggested: “A ‘J’ or ‘R’ in front would draw me to noticing JFK or RFK instead of the FKR standing out at the end.”

After that quick and informal poll, I find my opinion is going toward “It would have to be REALLY IMPORTANT to use those particular names.” I think I feel the way Lynnette does: she said “I think that one would be a stretch to come to a real conclusion, though I will not use my favorite boy name because : FKD.”

Let’s put a poll over to the right. [Poll closed; see results below.] The question is: GIVEN THAT the parents would prefer not to spell something bad with the initials (that is, we are not voting on whether initials-spelling-things matters, because it DOES matter to the parents), do you think the initials FKR are salvageable with a 4th initial? And if so, please put in the comments section which ones you think would work.

Name update! Cara writes:

Thanks so much for the feedback! Reading your response and all the comments really helped me clarify my thoughts. I realized that I probably wouldn’t be able to forget that when I see the initials _FKR, I see a word, even if other people don’t. We decided that when the baby was born we’d decide on the first name and then deal with the middle name (expecting that we would probably have to scrap the F name and pick something else). But ultimately the whole thing was a nonissue—I was absolutely convinced that we were having a girl (I thought the same with my first and was right), but we had a boy! The F middle name we were in love with (Freya) was off the table. But you can be sure that I wrote out my son’s four initials before we did the paperwork just to make sure I wasn’t missing anything! Thanks again!

Chris writes:

I hope you’ll choose to answer my questions but I’m not holding my breath since they’re so specific and perhaps kind of…insane? The baby is a boy and I’m due in September. My husband is a typical name-vetoer and pretty early on he got it stuck in his head that if the baby was a girl it’d be Harper and if the baby was a boy it’d be Charlie. I wasn’t 100% sold on either name, though I liked them both, so I kept trying to come up with names to add to the list, but he said he would never like anything as much as those two. I really like Charlie, but I worry that Charles/Charlie is going the way of George instead of Henry. Just Old Man sounding and not Young and Fresh. The official name would be Charles so he could have it fall back on professionally if he ever wanted, but we’d call him Charlie pretty exclusively. Charles has been steadily declining over the years…would we be saddling our kid with an Old Man name? I also worry just a little bit about the popularity of Charlie rising as a nickname for girls named Charlotte. I’d hate for our kid to be one boy Charlie surrounded by a school full of girl Charlies.

I have a second question as well – our last name is Lyman (pronounced how you would think: lye-men) which has been super difficult to pair names with – so many strong sounds! It’s ruled out the possibility for any names ending in N for me. I fell in love with Benjamin but would never use it because Benjamin Lyman just sounds so choppy. We’d like the baby to have a middle name that has some sort of family significance instead of just being random, and the name I like best OF COURSE ends in an N: Evan. My grandmother’s maiden name was Evans and I have lots of close family members with it. While I LOVE Charlie Evan, Charles/Charlie Evan Lyman makes me cringe. Like you, I like there to be a cadence and flow to a full name. I keep trying to tell myself that after the birth announcement and any baby blankets that are made, I’ll rarely see the whole name strung together. Am I lying to myself and signing up for a lifetime of baby name regret? Our backups are possibly my husband’s middle of Christopher, Michael as a family name from my side, and William as a family name from both sides.

Thank you so much!

 
The first question brings up one of my hot-button naming issues, which is this: Naming a baby is not a game of King of the Mountain, where a name stays at the top unless it is knocked down by force. That is, your husband may SAY that he’ll never like any names better than Charlie and Harper, but this doesn’t mean that those names must be used unless you persuade him otherwise. It isn’t your job to find a name he likes better while he sits back comfortably and waits; this is a mutual decision, and he too is responsible for questing for names the two of you can agree on. MANY A PARENT has had to give up MANY A NAME because the other parent didn’t want to use it. It makes me a little cranky when one parent seems to be saying, “Hey, it’s up to you: find me a name I like better.”

Okay, now on to the questions you actually asked. No, wait: I have another digression. It’s that Charlie Harper is the Charlie Sheen character on the TV show Two and a Half Men, and is also similar to the name of the artist Charley Harper. I don’t think that rules out using them as sibling names (I’m not sure many people would make either connection except to think, as I did, that those two names sounded remarkably natural together), but it’s the sort of thing I like to think of beforehand, rather than having someone point it out to me after the children are already named.

NOW on to the questions you actually asked. The name Charlie is hard to evaluate: the Social Security statistics don’t tell us how many Charleses and Charlottes are going by Charlie, and it’s hard to say how these names will feel to us later on. And “how a name feels” is so subjective: to me, Charlie is adorable and fresh and goes beautifully with all the Sams, Maxes, and Olivers—but to someone else, it could sound…well, like George (although I think George could be the next Sam/Max).

I notice that although the name Charles is very gradually declining in use, the name Charlie as a given name is increasing in use. And although Charles is declining, it’s still in the Top 100—so at least a Charles/Charlie would have company, whatever the associations of the name.

It sounds to me like you have several legitimate arguments for not wanting to use it:

1. You’re worried it might end up going the Old Man route.
2. You’re worried about the effect of all those Charlotte-based Charlies.
3. You’re not sure if “Charlie Lyman” works.
4. You’re just not 100% sold.

I’d be worried about that second one, too. But without statistics, I don’t know whether I should reassure us or validate our fears. I DO think a lot of those little Charlottes are going to go by Charlie—but I think a lot of them will go by Charlotte, and a lot will go by Lottie. Maybe it will stay a clearly “fine for boys and girls name” like Sam: the presence of a whole lot of Samanthas going by Sam hasn’t hurt the boy name Sam. (Er, I don’t THINK it has. Again, I am lost without statistics to examine.)

Now, as to your second question, again I am unsure! I’ve found I can argue either side of this: I can dismiss arguments that “it’s just a middle name, no one will ever say it” OR I can make those arguments myself. I DO like a name to have a good flow—but I think in the end I put that consideration second place to names I like and names that honor someone. So although my kids all have names that I think flow pretty well, there were some possibilities we considered that would have had a BETTER flow, but we instead went with the honor-name or with the name we liked best. And in the case of my daughter’s name, I think a different number of syllables would have been way better for her middle name—but after Paul agreed my first-name choice for her was his top choice as well, he wanted to use his previous favorite girl name as the middle name, and that seemed more important.

Charles Evan Lyman falls into this category, I think. It doesn’t SING, but it’s not bad. And when I say it repeatedly to myself, I find I come to like it: I know some people avoid having the same number of syllables for each part of the name, but I find I’m very positively drawn to the 2-2-2 pattern.

I feel similarly about Evan Lyman and even Benjamin Lyman: they are perhaps not ideal, but they’re good enough that if you love the names I don’t think the rhythm/sound is a big deal—and when I say them over and over, I come to like them. I’ve noticed when I look over a class list for one of my kids’ classrooms, I’ll see a lot of first/last name combinations that seem Not Ideal—and yet, it doesn’t really matter. And yet another “and yet,” if you said you didn’t want to use them because you didn’t like the sound, you’d find me solidly in your camp: I’ve rejected many a name combination because of issues I DID think were minor—but nevertheless preferred not to choose.

I think for me it must come down to how much I love a name. If I think to myself, “I MUST USE THIS NAME, IT IS THE ONLY NAME I TRULY LOVE”—well then, I’m much more likely to dismiss issues with initials or sounds or rhythms. But if I’m deciding among a list of names I like quite a bit but am having trouble choosing from, well then I’m much more likely to say “Not the one with the initials I.P., and not the one that repeats the ending-sound of our surname.” So if you say to me, “I LOVE the name Charlie Evan, and this means my husband gets the name he wants and I get the name I want!,” then I say to you “GO FORTH AND USE IT!” But if you say to me, “I’m not sure—I like a lot of these names, but none of them seem to work well,” then I say to you “Let’s keep looking! And tell your husband Swistle says he needs to help!” (Maybe Everett or Elliot, if you like Evan? Maybe Jonathan or Christopher if you like Benjamin?)

So, okay, I kind of WENT ON there for awhile. What does everyone else think on these issues? What sort of path do you see the name Charlie heading down, and do you think all the Charlottes will affect that? If you like a name to flow well, what sorts of things make you willing to compromise on that?

Name update! Chris writes:

Just wanted to send in my update to you and your wonderful readers! Thank you for reassuring me about the name Charlie – our Charlie was born on September 29! His full name is Charles Oliver Lyman; I decided to keep looking for a middle name instead of using a family name I wasn’t totally sure about, and as soon as Oliver crossed my mind, I was in love.

Ashley writes:

I find myself in a situation that is likely not terribly unique, but difficult nonetheless. I was due three days ago with our first child, a little boy. He has yet to grace us with his presence, but know the moment is right around the corner. We are truly excited and ready to meet our little man, with the exception of one minor detail: his name. My husband and I have a last name that I find slightly difficult to work with. Peppers. We had decided on the name Everett back in February when we learned I was carrying a son, but met instant disapproval from my mother. In hindsight, we wish we would have kept our decision a secret, but at the time couldn’t really imagine the announcement being greeted by anything other than excitement. We have been sorely mistaken. She has repeatedly campaigned against it from the first moment of sharing. I thought that putting my foot down and telling her the decision was final would stop the remarks, but it didn’t work. It’s as if there was one most terrible, wretched name possible and we have chosen it. I sought wisdom and spoke at length with my husband and we decided that we had the power to change the situation by changing our choice in name. We worked on a short list which included: Owen, Harrison, William, Augustine, Christian, Zachary, Hudson, and Hunter. None of these names just completely grabs us. And we’re now very conflicted about Everett. I really thought I liked it but there are a lot of hurt feelings mixed up with it at this point, and to make matters worse, my family seems to like to pronounce it like “Ev-ritt” with a hill-billy accent. There are clearly some family dynamics that far exceed the scope of our son’s name, but he is due at any moment and we are at a huge loss as far as what direction to go next. I wish I could be really tough and let all of it roll off my back, but I know myself and it will drive me crazy for a LONG time if this is an ongoing source of strife. I’d like the issue to be finished. Other things to consider: My maiden name is Taylor and we would like to use it in either the first or middle name. If we were having a girl, we really liked the names Emma, Grace, Abigail, and Caroline. My husband tends to like biblical names: Joshua, Zachary, Gabriel, Benjamin. I’m really interested in a name that has a nice flow from First to middle to last, and when it’s just first and last and if the first can be shortened to a nickname then nickname and last. We would love suggestions on a strong masculine name First Middle Peppers that might work well for us and our son. Thank you for your help! (and the help of any readers who offer suggestions- wisdom is greatly needed!!)

 
This is a very hard situation. You know and I know that your mother should not be behaving this way. An initial negative reaction would have been bad enough, but to continue to campaign against the name even after you told her it was final is beyond unacceptable.

Nevertheless, she is doing it. While I would like to leap up onto a crate and exhort you that it’s your choice! she named her babies and now you get to name yours! it’s a great name and she will come around to it! stand your ground!—it’s not something I’m planning to do. It’s easy for someone ELSE to say that you should get to use the name you want to use—but such a stance denies the reality of the situation. If I picture my own mother carrying on about a name the way yours is, I think I too would be choosing not to die on this hill. We DON’T really know that she’ll come around to it, and “You should choose the name you love no matter what other people think!” is the kind of advice people give easily only when they’re not the ones living with the consequences. Not to mention that I WANT my mother to love my baby’s name—not at the expense of all my own opinions, but it’s something I’m willing to work at a bit.

One possibility at this point is to involve your mother EVEN MORE: if she’s going to kick up an unending stink if you don’t choose a name she likes, have her tell you which names she likes from your list of finalists. (I don’t recommend asking her for suggestions: you might find that, just as when my mother-in-law delivered a list of her own unasked-for suggestions, they were all from the days when she was naming her own babies.) This could, of course, BACKFIRE LIKE NOBODY’S BUSINESS—but if you want to avoid a name that causes your mother to behave this way, it could also help keep you from jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Another possibility is to choose another name, not reveal it until after the baby is born, and do preliminary work: tell her you’ve changed the name ONLY because she didn’t like it, but that now you’re not telling the name because you don’t want her to spoil it for you, and that whether she likes the name or not it IS THE BABY’S NAME and if she doesn’t like it, you ARE sorry, but she’s had her turn to name babies, and now you and your husband are having your turn and she should be very happy she’s had a veto.

Everett IS a great name. There is a little group of names I think of as being “similar to Everett”—such things are totally subjective, of course, but I wondered if you might like any of them, as I do: Elliot, Emmett, Evan. I like Elliot Taylor Peppers and Evan Taylor Peppers best; Emmett Peppers is a little harder for me to say, and I think the repeating eh sounds might be too much.

Evan makes me think of Ethan. Ethan Taylor Peppers.

For biblical names, I like your husband’s choices (especially Zachary and Joshua) and also:

Adam Taylor Peppers
Jeremy Taylor Peppers
Joel Taylor Peppers
Jonathan Taylor Peppers
Nathan Taylor Peppers
Samuel Taylor Peppers

I also like Henry Taylor Peppers. I think Henry Peppers is adorable. But I have a feeling that a woman who dislikes Everett won’t feel any happier about Henry. I think my own favorite would be Jonathan Peppers, with the nickname Jon.

Name update! Ashley writes:

Thank you so much for responding to my email. Your response couldn’t have come at a better time. My husband and I were resting in my hospital room after just meeting our little boy, still scratching our heads about his name. We thought we’d check to see if there was a response posted on your blog. There was!! Not only that, but there were many helpful responses from kind and thoughtful readers. I am so grateful for how well thought out your words were. I think my husband and I were beginning to notice after reading that we were falling into two different camps as far as the name Everett. He was willing to die on that hill, I was not. This understanding was empowering as we considered our motives and options. For the next few days- while in the hospital holding him, looking at his sweet little face we tried on a few names. We really like your suggestion of Jonathan. He called him that for a day. It just never took. We tried Everett and Owen and neither truly felt right. A dark horse entered the race and moments before being discharged from the hospital we decided to try the name Truman. It worked. It fits our son perfectly. His full name is Truman Taylor Peppers. We use that or Tru or even sometimes Mr. T when addressing him. I think we both felt satisfied finding a name that had little emotional association and that we didn’t already have a slew of opinions about. Truman fits the bill! Thanks, again! We are truly blessed by this precious gift and love our son’s name!!

Thank you, again!

 
Swistle:

What a great name! Thank you so much for letting us know! And, what did your MOM think of it??

 
Ashley:

Thank you! We are very happy with it. I think it’s a good sign that we have no lingering regret or hurt feelings about the previous situation. It had been my fear that we would compromise and hold some sort of resentment. I don’t think either of us feel we did. And for my mother… as far as I know she loves it. She may be so glad we didn’t choose the other name that anything else would seem brilliant, but she did seem truly delighted. What a great way to for an unwelcome issue to come together. Oh, and I noticed someone mentioned pictures, so I thought I’d include one of our handsome little boy. Thank you, again!

Melissa writes:

I am due with my first girl on September 15. My sons are C00per and C@mden. Obviously, their names are matchy (both Cs, both six letters, both surnames). It wasn’t our intention, but that’s how it worked out. To top it off, their intials are also exactly the same. Baby 3.0 does not have to be a C, but if a C works out, we’re good with that. This will, in all likelihood, be our final child.

All that said, our first name list looks like this:

Cara (which we have liked since my second pregnancy)
Calista, nn Cali/Callie
Emerine (a surname from my husband’s side of the family)

We’ve liked the name Cara for YEARS, but after too boys Cara doesn’t seem “grand” enough … like we need something that makes more of a statement. Silly, I know. I am also concerned for her always correcting “It’s a C, not a K.” I like the name Callie but would like a more professional-sounding option for her too. Calliope and Calpurnia are both out, so Calista seems reasonable (and my husband quite likes Calista). We thought we were really on to something with Emerine – it’s a surname! it’s a family name! it seems sort of familiar because of the popularity of Emma and Emily! BUT I don’t like the way it looks. It sounds feminine, but it doesn’t look feminine. The only middle name I found that I really like with it is Grace … but Emerine Grace G1bs0n leaves her with the initials EGG. Nope, not going to work.

For girls, my husband likes “fussy princess” names. Longish, Latin/Greek-rooted name, usually ending in -a or -ah. I generally like German/Hebrew-rooted names (like Chelsea) or fun ones (like Piper). Husband has vetoed both Chelsea and Piper. We like less-popular first names as our last name is quite common and plain.

Other names we’ve discussed and won’t use:

Olivia (too common, Husband obsessed with Olivia the Pig factor)
Malia (I kind of like, Husband does not)
Mariska (both liked but people’s reaction was consistently “Marissa?” which I quite dislike)
Carissa (my husband’s suggestion that I detest)
Paige (too popular, too short)
Carys (Husband thinks it’s weird)

Middle names up for consideration are June, Marie, possibly June-Marie or Junemarie (to hyphenate or not?), maybe Lillian (all family-honoring names).

Personally, I am leanings towards Cara June or Cara June-Marie. My husband is leaning towards Calista but will (in all likelihood) come around to whatever I really want.

Very open to additional name suggestions.

Thank you!

 
I was immediately leaping on alternate spellings of Emerine that might look more feminine to you when I realized it was a family surname name, which means it loses a lot of impact if we change the spelling. If you do decide to use it, I like Rose as a middle name: Emerine Rose G1bs0n. I think Emerine Paige G1bs0n works well, too.

I know you said you’re open to non-C names, but I find I’m drawn to them for you if this is most likely your last child. (If you think it’s more than remotely possible you’ll have another, I’d be more disinclined to lock you into a C pattern.)

Cara and Calista make me think of Calla: it’s almost a perfect in-between of fanciness and length, and you could still use Callie as a nickname.

I think Cadence would fit well with C00per and C@mden.

I like Cecily a lot, and it has six letters just like C00per and C@mden. Cecily Paige G1bs0n, Cecily June G1bs0n, Cecily Marie G1bs0n.

I also like Claire—and again, six letters. Claire June-Marie/Junemarie G1bs0n.

Or Clara. Clara Paige G1bs0n, Clara Junemarie/June-Marie G1bs0n.

Or Claudia. Claudia June/Marie/Paige G1bs0n.

Cleo might appeal to your husband’s classical tastes while being fun and non-frilly for yours. Cleo June-Marie/Junemarie G1bs0n.

A name I recently noticed in The Baby Name Wizard is Carling. I like the way it rhymes with Darling. I like that it’s similar to names like Carli, for familiarity. It’s similar to Cara, but fancier. It’s a surname name. And I think it goes well with C00per and C@mden.

Another is Calloway. It has a pretty sound, like Willow, and it gives you the nickname Callie.

Name update! Melissa writes:

We went in a totally different direction than planned.

Everly Juno joined our family on September 8.

We settled on it just days before her arrival and it took a while for it to “feel” like her name, but we’re very happy with the name and with her – she’s sweet as can be!

While it’s not a “C” name, it is an English surname and six letters (just like the boys’ names). All three kids have a “J” name as their middle name. There’s enough in common to make the sibling set cohesive but she gets to be a little different with her own initial and three syllables :)

Thank you

Kyisha writes:

Months ago a friend shared your blog with me when I was at a loss for my third daughter’s name. Now it is mid June and I am still not in love with anything. The topic of baby names has become a very sensitive and frustrating source of tension in my marriage. He says no to every name… but the truth nothing has felt right for me yet either.

I have read baby name books, naming sites… etc. None seem to help… so I turn to you as my due date (July 29) approaches.

Some insight:

My children’s names are Jase (11), Loralei (4) and Piper (3). Their names work PERFECTLY with their personalities!

I haven’t duplicated an initial yet… so I don’t think I want to.

I want a name that is easy to pronounce and spell but is not popular.

Names I have thought about, but don’t work:

Penolope- out because of the p

Stella- husband said no… I still kind of like it

Harper- I LOVE THIS, but it is too popular lately and the per is too much like Piper.

Everly- I like! My Meme’s names is Beverly and my nana is Evelyn making Everly a pretty combo. My hubby thinks it sounds too made up. I don’t really like either Beverly or Evelyn as they are… enough.

Quinn- I would pick this but hubby knows a man named it and says no. (it doesn’t help that he doesn’t like the man, lol)

Baylee- Cute.. I like the nm Bay. All my kids’ have nicknames: Jase, Lo and Pi or Pipidy.

Sage- I haven’t mentioned it to my hubby yet.

Vayla- saw this on one of your posts… haven’t digested it yet but initially I like it.

Please help! I really want to love get name too!

Thank you,

Kyisha (key-sha) My name has always caused me trouble. People assume I’m a different ethnicity, not that that should matter… but to some it has. It is always pronounced wrong. However, I have always values being unique… never another me in my class. I really want this girl to have the spunk and originality in her name… but still have it grounded enough to be recognizable.

and

Hello Swistle. I know I wrote you before distressed about my darling 3rd daughter being born without a name.

Well, I have now fallen in love with Vivien/Vivienne! So what is my issue? The hubby isn’t 100% on board. He likes the full name but isn’t a fan of the nickname Viv. Our three other children all have nick names, so a nick name is important.

My second concern is the pop in popularity. I read your thorough post about the Vivian trend… and I feel a bit more settled about this issue. Truth is I love the name so much I don’t care about trends!

So, do I trying to get the hubby to commit to a name he isn’t in love with the nick name for?

Vivienne is so spunky, bold and yet still feminine. It marries the two styles of my other daughter’s names. Loralei and Piper.

Help… please.

 
For Vivienne I’ve heard people using Vivi instead of Viv. I realize it’s only one letter different, but it seems to make a huge difference in the style of the name. It’s similar to the difference you’ve noticed between the names Beverly and Everly: one letter makes a huge difference in style and in the assumed age of the bearer. You could also use Vi (older), or Vee (younger).

Everly is still an uncommon name, but it’s catching on quickly enough that I suspect in a decade it won’t sound made-up at all. Already it sounds like Emily and Beverly, which makes it feel familiar despite its uncommonness.

Maybe Ellery? Or Emerson? A similar possibility is Briarly, but I don’t know if any of these would sound any less made-up to your husband, and Briarly and Ellery especially share so many sounds with the name Loralei.

Brinley?

Or Romilly. As I understand it, the name is pronounced with either a short or long O, but the short O is the original pronunciation. Milly makes a cute nickname.

If you want the long O, I think I’d go with Romy instead. Fewer mix-ups, and you’d get the nickname Ro or Mimi.

I also like Fiona for you.

Or Zoe.

Or Sloane—I think I like the idea of adding a long-O sound! But no nickname.

Or Juniper, though it repeats the -per of Piper. I think it helps, though, that it’s three syllable instead of two.

Or Beatrix, which has both Bee and Trixie.

Another possibility is Imogen (IM-ah-jen). I think it goes well with the other children’s names, and it’s uncommon but not made-up. I recently read a novel in which the character named Imogen went by Immy, but Gen would work too, and on a previous post someone suggested the nickname Mo.

Elodie would be pretty, and it has some of the sound of Penelope and Stella.

Scarlett would work, too, I think.

Or Madigan: unusual, yet familiar in sound because of Madison and Madelyn.

Name update! Kyisha writes:

Swistle and followers. Thank you so much for your help. Our daughter, Willow Elizabeth was born July 29th. After all that stress, the name just fell out in conversation a couple of days before she was born. It fits her perfect. Our family is complete with Jayson, Loralei, Piper and Willow.

Amy writes:

I’m due with our second child, a baby girl in 6 weeks. We like unique first names with personally significant middle names and we have an 18 month old whose name we still absolutely love, Atticus, with his middle name being the name of the small town where we met & got married. We’ve had this baby’s full name picked out since before we even knew she was a girl but suddenly I’m having second thoughts. Her first name starts with E and is unique but a recognizable and easily pronounceable one-syllable word. Her middle name will be Elizabeth, a 4th generation name from my mother’s side, and our last name is two syllables and starts with W. My husband and I both love the name and have already revealed it to a few close friends and family members to positive reviews. But have you figured out my problem? Her initials will be EEW. I know it’s not the way most people spell eww when they’re talking about something gross and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve had to use my full initials for something but I can see the potential teasing of “Your parents named you ewwww?!” written all over it. Is that what it makes you think of?

I’ve thought about changing the spelling to Alizabeth to avoid the issue altogether but it feels like it would be taking something away from the family significance of the name. I’ve also considered adding another middle name before the Elizabeth but it feels wrong to just tag some other random name along that we don’t really care about just to change her initials. I’ve also thought of shortening the middle name to Beth, which I don’t like as well, but it sounds terrible when said aloud with her first name. What should we do? Am I making a bigger deal of this than I should be? Should we stick with it and hope it’s not something that comes up often? Are there any other spellings we could use or maybe foreign options of Elizabeth or…? I don’t want to give up the name we love but I also don’t want it to become an issue she’s unhappy with later and have her name tainted for me anyway with “Why did we do that to her?” guilt.

I keep telling my husband he wasn’t even in the room when I filled out the birth certificate for Atticus so I could change the spelling to Alizzabegth if I really felt like it but I don’t think that’s going to go over well!

Help! Time is running out!

 
I would not change the family name. There are many alternate spellings and other-language variations on the name Elizabeth, but if it’s for fourth-generation family significance I wouldn’t mess around with it.

You don’t mention the option of changing the first name/spelling, so I assume that’s not changeable.

Well, it’s a difficult situation. In general, I don’t like initials to spell things—even good things. And initials such as EEW or EWW are not great. But…I’m disinclined to try at this point to talk you out of a name you’ve solidly chosen just to avoid some initials. If the name were, for example, Anna Sue Stevens, I would tell you that sad as it may be, an alternative would need to be chosen; but EEW seems on the line to me. I’d certainly avoid it if I thought of it beforehand, but this is very close to being afterhand.

My favorite “solves the whole thing” solution is for you to add another middle name. I agree with you that it seems silly to just toss a random name in there merely for the purpose of solving the problem—but I think if we avoid the random and the tossing and instead find a name you DO love, or a name with significance, that it no longer seems silly at all. It takes the name you love and improves it in two ways: by getting rid of the problem initials, and by letting you use an additional name you love.

If the name Elizabeth is from your side of the family, are there women on your husband’s side you might like to honor? Or perhaps a surname with a pretty sound? Or your own maiden name? E__ Elizabeth Name Surname is the order I’m thinking of. I think this could end up being a very pleasing revision, and fun to choose.

Name update! Amy writes:

Hi Swistle. A few weeks ago you helped my husband and I with the initials problem for our daughter- EEW. Your advice and all the comments helped us to feel confident to go ahead and use the name we loved the way it was and that the initials really weren’t that big of a deal. Elm Elizabeth W. was born on Monday and she’s perfect, just like her name. Sending along a picture. Thank you and your readers so much!

Karen writes:

I’m due in about 7 weeks and we’re still undecided about number three’s name. He will be Adam and Naomi’s little brother. I’m Karen and my husband is Dion. Our last name sounds like “Lou.” This is in all likelihood our last child. *sniff*. We have two front-running names but they both break one of my “rules:” that the kids’ names not sound like ours, so as to prevent confusion, especially since my husband’s hearing is not great. But maybe some rules were made to be broken?

John – this has been the leading contender for most of my pregnancy and we both really like it. It’s a good name and a strongly family name for me. However, Dion is more concerned about the similarity to his name because confusion is likely to be with him, the one with poor hearing after all. I don’t like Jack; John would be John. But are John and Dion too similar for one family?

Aaron – I’ve always liked this name but never considered it because it broke the similarity rule. I mentioned it off-hand recently and Dion said that he likes it, too. He’s not very concerned about confusing Aaron and Karen, mainly because it wouldn’t often cause confusion for him, just for us. I’m also thinking about John Aaron, possibly going by Aaron. Going by a middle name is very common in my family. In fact, Naomi is actually Margaret Naomi. But are Aaron and Karen too similar for one family?

I guess my main question is: John, Aaron, or back to the drawing board?

Our taste is typically “biblical – but not just biblical”. Here are some other names we’ve considered in the past, though I wouldn’t necessarily rule them out this time either.
Simon – was a backup name for Adam.
Gabriel – was also a backup name for Adam.
Jonah – was going to be Naomi’s name until the day she was born, when we found out she was a girl.
Benjamin – was a backup name for Jonah.
James – was a also backup name for Jonah.

many thanks,
Karen

P.S. I cut out this next part because I felt the query was getting too long [note from Swistle: I thought the postscripts were really good so asked Karen if I could leave them in] but here’s how strongly John is a family name for me:
My brother is John Ian, father is John David, and grandfather was John Norman, though they go/went by Ian, David, and Jack respectively, exactly so as to prevent confusion. It goes back at least seven generations. My brother will likely never have kids and even if he does, we both agree that it would be just fine if there were more than one John in the next generation. I also have a cousin John on my father’s side and twin aunts Jean and Joan on my mother’s side.

P.P.S. Again because it was getting too long… I know John and Dion don’t seem very similar but when I say John, the J can sound like Dzh or Dsh, which can sound like d-YUH, which makes JOHN sound like dee-YON. I’m not a linguist, so I dunno, maybe this is just a regional thing. We’re Canadian.

Boy, I really want to push you to use John. I love that name, and I love the sibling group of Adam, Naomi, and John. But your husband is the best judge of whether it will present an auditory problem for him. Would he be willing to accept the occasional confusion (if it WOULD only be occasional), in order to get the name you both love? It seems like it might be at the same level of hassle as other things (a second middle name, a Jr., etc.) we sometimes decide to accept because it’s worth it for other reasons.

Oh, dear, I have just had a thought. “John” is slang for bathroom. So is “Loo.” I wonder if this is well-known enough to cause problems.

Naming him after your brother might work. Ian Lou; Adam, Naomi, and Ian.

Or after your dad: David Lou; Adam, Naomi, and David.

Would it help to use Jonathan instead of John? Jonathan Lou; Adam, Naomi, and Jonathan.

The first confusion I noticed with the name Aaron was Adam: I realize everyone is going to be different about this, but I would have trouble remembering which boy was which. For scale, I have the same problem if a family has a Matthew and a Michael, or if I’m reading a book with a David and a Daniel. It’s not that the names are SO SIMILAR (because they’re not, and I wouldn’t expect someone else to find them too similar), but something about them creates a problem in my mind. Same number of syllables and/or same approximate length, same first letter, similar associations. With the additional problem of rhyming with Karen, this name would be off my own list—but as usual with this sort of thing, that doesn’t mean I’d say it should be off yours. Many, many other people would say “What? Adam and Aaron aren’t ANYTHING alike!”

From your list of other possibilities, my favorite is James. I like the subtle repeating M sound in all three names: Adam, Naomi, and James. I like Benjamin for this same reason, but between the two I prefer James for visual length. I also like Simon for both M-sound and length.

A possibility you’ve likely already considered is Joshua. Joshua Lou; Adam, Naomi, and Joshua. Joshua is similar in some ways to Jonah, but more mainstreamed (and with more diluted associations) like Adam.

Name update! Karen writes:

Thanks again for posting my naming question! Your and your readers’ comments definitely helped me make up my mind. From then on, I started leaning more and more towards John. We briefly discussed names on the ride to the hospital, since we hadn’t exactly pinned one down, but we still didn’t come to an agreement quite yet. I knew immediately after he was born that his name was going to be John, though I knew Dion wasn’t completely sold. In my mind, he was born and his name was John. End of story (almost.) I told (yes, told) Dion that he could choose a middle name if he wanted a J.P. or J.J. or something or if he thought that “just” John was too ho-hum or too grown-up for a baby. But I pointed out that Jay is a good nickname for a baby John and that I was perfectly happy to continue the pattern that the boys – he, Adam, and John – have no middle name but that Naomi and I do. And that was all the persuading I needed to do. And, really, how much persuading does any woman need to do in the labour and delivery room? Dion decided that he’d used all his baby-naming mojo with Naomi, so, John it is. Dion still isn’t sure how we’ll say John in that boy-are-you-in-trouble tone but adding the last name always helps, no? Thanks again!