Hi Swistle!

We are welcoming a baby girl in October. She is our third child, coming 5 years after our last so it’s been a while since we’ve had to make these important decisions! Our surname rhymes with pickles but starts with an R. Big brother is Sawyer Ryan and big sister is Sloane Elizabeth.

Names we both like Reese, Ann, Margaret. I like Molly and Mary but my husband does not. My husband really likes Selby (a family name) but I am not sure if it’s too far out there and people will think we just forgot the h in there. Both of our other children have our middle names and so we don’t want to leave this baby hanging with no family name but there aren’t a ton to work with. Ann is also a family name. My husband is convinced if we name her Ann Selby she will marry a man with an S last name and have a bad monogram for life. Or if we name her Ann Reese she will marry another S man and have an English version bad monogram. I don’t think we need to worry that far ahead as long as we don’t give her a bad monogram to start with 😅

We aren’t set at all on having a third S name child. That wasn’t purposeful with our second but many people have asked us if we’re doing that again and we can’t even think of any that have topped our list.

A few other names one of us has liked and one of us has nixed: Quinn, Saylor, Merritt. We are a name the baby before we get discharged type but will definitely send an update come Halloween time!

Thank you
Lara

I don’t think Selby is too out-there, and I like it a lot in the sibling set. I do think you will occasionally have people confusing it with Shelby, but not at deal-breaking levels. But if you think you may have more children, I might suggest avoiding an S-name this time to avoid backing yourself into a corner.

I like Reese in this sibling group, too, though the matching R- and S-sounds with the surname is too much for my own tastes.

Ann and Margaret feel like such a big style leap from the first two names—not that sibling names have to coordinate.

For the middle name, I think you could use your middle name again, and that strikes me as a fun thing to do: you and your girls, all sharing the same middle name.

I am a little torn on the subject of Future Married Initials. On one hand, I think it’s a smart idea to think things through ahead of time, even relatively minor or unlikely things. On the other hand, I cringe at the idea that we would name a girl differently than a boy on the assumption that a girl (1) will get married (2) to a man (3) whose surname she will take at marriage. Certainly we would avoid A.S.S. initials for a boy just as we would for a girl; but would we avoid A.S. initials for a boy, in case he might marry someday, and in case that spouse might have a surname starting with S, and in case he might change his surname to that one? No.

If she DOES someday get married, AND it is to someone with an S. surname, then at that point I think we can trust her to make the decision about what she’d like to do about that. She can choose not to take that surname, or she can choose to drop her middle name and move her birth surname to the middle, or she can choose another of her options; I don’t think we need to try at this point to make that decision for her, OR to prevent her from ever having to make that decision. But back to the first hand: if you don’t feel strongly about wanting both the A. and the S. name and in that order, I guess I would choose something else, while feeling a little irritable about it.

Let’s look for some more first name options.

Aubrey; Sawyer, Sloane, and Aubrey
Audra; Sawyer, Sloane, and Audra
Blythe; Sawyer, Sloane, and Blythe
Brynn; Sawyer, Sloane, and Brynn
Darcy; Sawyer, Sloane, and Darcy
Ellery; Sawyer, Sloane, and Ellery (-ry/R- an issue?)
Emlyn; Sawyer, Sloane, and Emlyn
Eve; Sawyer, Sloane, and Eve
Hollis; Sawyer, Sloane, and Hollis
Laine; Sawyer, Sloane, and Laine (too many shared sounds with Sloane?)
Maeve; Sawyer, Sloane, and Maeve
Mallory; Sawyer, Sloane, and Mallory
Maren; Sawyer, Sloane, and Maren
Marlowe; Sawyer, Sloane, and Marlowe
Margot; Sawyer, Sloane, and Margot
Maude; Sawyer, Sloane, and Maude
Morgan; Sawyer, Sloane, and Morgan
Paige; Sawyer, Sloane, and Paige
Peyton; Sawyer, Sloane, and Peyton
Rowan; Sawyer, Sloane, and Rowan (too many shared sounds with Sloane? too alliterative?)
Sasha; Sawyer, Sloane, and Sasha
Sydney; Sawyer, Sloane, and Sydney
Teagan; Sawyer, Sloane, and Teagan
Vivian; Sawyer, Sloane, and Vivian

Name update:

Hi Swistle and readers,
Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful suggestions. We had so much fun reading through them. We ended up delivering early due to preeclampsia and spent two days trying to figure out what baby looked like once she came. Funny enough, we ditched the pressure we put on ourselves to use a family name and also went a different S direction and are happy to present Scout Reese pickles with an R

Hello, Swistle!

We are due with a baby girl in April. We have one son named Jack. Our surname is two syllables, ends in an “s,” and is very common (think Williams).

My husband and I have extremely different taste in names, and it’s been hard to pin down a final name for our daughter. Right now our top contender is June. We both love the name, but I’m concerned it’s too close to Jack? We want at least 4 children, and we don’t plan on carrying on a one-syllable J theme. Would it be odd to have two J’s right next to each other, then not continue that trend? Am I overthinking?

In addition, my brother recently started seriously dating a lovely girl named June; however, she spells it “Joon,” or “Joonie,” and it’s a nickname for something else. My family exclusively calls her “Joonie,” though, so I’m worried adding another June/Junie would be very confusing? This isn’t a dealbreaker for me, as relationships come and go, and we liked the name before they started dating. It’s just another factor adding to my confusion!

I also love the names Etta, Georgia, and Rosie, and he loves Lila. I don’t mind Lila, but it doesn’t feel like “the one” for this baby. I’m also afraid it might be the next big name, and I don’t love the idea of naming her something with equal popularity to “Jack.” To get a further sense of our name style, had she been a boy, I very much liked the names Lewis or Simon.

Note: if we don’t end up naming her June, we won’t be using it as a middle name. We would save it as a future first name for another daughter, should we have a second.

I would love your thoughts, or additional name suggestions that have a similar vibe to June!

Thanks so much.

I think Jack and June is cute, and that it would be considered cute. It isn’t like John and Jane (a pairing we briefly considered for our twins, because we liked the names separately, but we nearly instantly vetoed it), where there’s another shared consonant sound AND a negative association (John/Jane Doe): the initial is the same, and they’re both one-syllable names, but the other sounds are completely different. If you imagine hollering one name up the stairs, the other child is not going to think you’re calling them. But it IS cute: it sounds like it could be the name of a company, and in fact if you search online you’ll find several.

For me, the primary consideration against it is that you’re planning more kids—and so that’s where I’d start: naming a pretend third (and possibly fourth) child. Imagine that you have named your secondborn June, so you have Jack, June, and ? If you feel like you can come up with more names for that sibling set (and can hold on after the third one is named and seems like odd-one-out for awhile, until the fourth one is named and makes the situation more stable), then I think you’re okay: you wouldn’t even WANT to continue the one-syllable J-name theme. So if you like Jack, June, Lila, and Georgia, or Jack, June, Louis, and Simon, then everything is fine and I think you should just go right ahead and use the name you like best. If, however, you feel uneasy when you try to choose a third/fourth, then maybe you’d rather go with the plan to use something different this time and save June for a possible second girl. Sometimes a sibling in between can make all the difference.

On the other hand, as soon as I write that, I wonder if it might not be particularly charming to have the older kids with similar names and maybe the younger kids also with similar names? Jack and June, Lila and Louis? I love that. I realize we can’t know how many kids you’ll have or what their sexes will be; it’s more that I think if you DO feel like THIS BABY is June, I can see real potential for having fun (as opposed to feeling painted into a corner) with future names. You can write to us again! We will help with the fun!

I can see how your brother’s new girlfriend’s name is making things feel a little unsettled. I would feel the same way. It sounds to me as if you have that in perspective, though: you know she may not last, and/or that she may last awhile and then be a painful association, and/or that she may be a permanent addition to the family. The difference in spelling does make a difference to me, as does the fact that it’s a nickname for another name. But I can also see how this might be one too many complications, and may be an argument for saving the name for later.

I’m obviously completely guessing, and also you should keep in mind that I was very surprised when Charlotte and Evelyn went Top 10, so it’s not as if I have a keen and reputable track record—but it seems to me the name Lila already had its run for the top, and since then has fallen back to settle comfortably in the 200s:

(screenshot from https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/)

It shoots up all of a sudden there starting in 1998 (notice that before that it had been out of the Top 1000 since 1982); and anyone considering it in 2006-2010 would have good reason for thinking it was heading up the way Isabella/Charlotte/Emma/etc. did. But then it just stalls out. It hangs around for awhile thinking about it in 2010-2014, but by 2015 it’s decided it’s happy where it is and isn’t going to try for queen of the hill. Then we have a good five years or so chilling in the 200s, which is a lovely place for a name to be: familiar and non-startling, but also not very common at all.

I’m interested in the question about names similar to June, because I feel like there are surprisingly few. June is vintage, but not COMMON vintage like Jane; it’s a month, which puts it in the special/noun category; it’s one syllable, which adds another level of distinction. I am hoping commenters can help with this; some of the ones I’m coming up with are more like June combined with other names on your list. The Baby Name Wizard suggests Rose, Eva, Iris, Joy, Ruby, May. I would add Jane, Jean, Joan; they don’t solve your issue, and none of them are quite right, but they’re adjacent, and may lead us to think of other possible candidates. Fiona and Simone (Simone would rule out Simon) keep coming to my mind even though I would not really put them in the same category. Ruth? Louise (would rule out Lewis/Louis)? Eliza? Frances/Frankie. Kay(e). Polly, Sally, Leigh, Lynn—all names I think would sound extremely fresh on a new baby. Cora, Clara. Mabel. Pearl. Ada, Alice, Greta. I might look at botanical names: Violet, Dahlia/Dalia, Laurel, Olive, Hazel. Oh! Fern?? Flora? IVY!!

Name update:

Hi, Swistle!

Our sweet June Elisabeth was born in April. When it came down to it, we just couldn’t resist the magic of June—you were right, there’s nothing quite like it! Plus, it fits her perfectly. Thanks to you and your readers for the input!

Hi Swistle,

My husband and I are expecting our first baby, unknown sex, in early April and we’d love your help with name suggestions. I originally thought that we would struggle coming up with boy names because there weren’t many that we liked, but I think we’ve settled on either Rowan or George as a first name and maybe Harald as a middle name. Harald is an honor name and I really like the idea of incorporating at least one honor name into our baby’s name. My husband and I both have honor names as our middle names (my middle name is my mom’s first name, and my husband’s middle name is his grandpa’s first name).

My husband’s last name sounds like Dickson, and we’ll likely use my last name (sounds like Mattson) as a second middle name. I don’t love how our last names sound together (too much like Mason Dixon), but I want our baby to have my last name as well, so adding it as a second middle name seems like the best way to do that.

We’re struggling more with a name for a girl. We’d ideally like something that is recognizable but not super common (preferably not in the top 100 names for that sex in the past few years). I would also prefer a name that is fairly classic and not just a trend. We considered Nora and Lucy, but both of those seem too common for our preferences. Other names we’re considering are Quinn, Sloane, Felicity, Harriet, Evelyn, and Maren. The names Eleanor and Madeline have been used by family so we’re not considering those.

Harriet has some significance in our relationship, but if we name our daughter that I’d like her to have a nickname, and one of my best friends goes by Hattie (her real name is Heather) which seems like the most obvious nickname for Harriet.

I’ve loved the name Maren for a long time, but I don’t like that there are two ways to pronounce it (I like it best when it doesn’t rhyme with Karen), and I’m not sure I like it with my husband’s last name.

For girl middle names, I really like either Jean or Ruth. Both of these are honor names, and I like that the don’t start with a vowel since we’ve realized there are lots of words that can be spelled by initials when the first name starts with a consonant, middle name a vowel, and then D (George Otto Dickson was in the running for a boy name if the initials didn’t spell out GOD). Even though we intend for our kids to have my last name as a second middle name I’d like to avoid spelling other words or names if they drop my last name sometime in the future.

I’d appreciate any help and suggestions you have, either on the names we’re considering or others you think we should add to our list of contenders.

Thank you,

K

My first question, if we were sitting together in a cozy little office with comfy chairs that were easy to get in and out of even while heavily pregnant; decorated with name-labeled photos of newborns; with a tray of exactly the snack you happened to be thinking of on your way to the appointment—I say, my first question there and also here would be “Are you planning to have more children?” Because if so, I think the first task before us is to see if we can narrow down your naming style. There is a world, a WORLD of difference between George and Rowan, between Quinn and Felicity. And so if you are planning more children, and if you like sibling names to coordinate to some degree, this is a decision that would be useful to make ahead of time.

Let’s start with Boy Name Style. Rowan strikes me as unisex, Celtic, and modern: I would not know if a Rowan on a name list was a boy or a girl, and I can’t think of any Rowans in my age group or my parents’ or grandparents’ age group except for Rowan Atkinson. George is boy-only, more British in flavor, and with usage that goes up and down over the years but I can definitely think of plenty of Georges throughout the generations. If you started with a boy named Rowan, and then had more children, I would expect names such as Quinn (boy or girl), Sloane, and Maren. If you started with a boy named George, and then had more children, I would expect names such as Felicity, Harriet, and Evelyn. (If you are avoiding common names, I will mention that according to the Social Security Administration, Evelyn is a Top 10 name as of 2020.)

Which grouping seems more like Your Kids to you? Picture them around the table, in the car, upstairs in their rooms, writing their names on their homework, being introduced to someone you run into while shopping. Do you have a Quinn and a Rowan and a Sloane? Do you have a Felicity and a George and a Harriet? There is obviously no rule that you have to divide things this way: you are allowed to have a Rowan and a Felicity, a George and a Sloane. But what we find is that most parents who are interested enough in baby names to write to us are also parents who like the names to Go Well Together—and so those are a lot of the letters we get: parents who used Felicity and now realize that was an outlier to their tastes, and now they want to use Quinn for a second girl but it feels wrong; parents who used Rowan for a boy, and now want to use George but it feels wrong. Etc.

Next I would like to discuss your surname. I used my birth surname as my children’s second middle name, and at this point of my life I feel both glad that I put it SOMEwhere, and also disbelief that I put it in the absolute least important spot, and even planned on them DROPPING IT. Why? Why? Why did I think that my family’s surname was only worthy of that tiny crumb? At this point I wish I’d made it part of the surname: either a double surname or a hyphenated one. At the time that felt like Too Much Surname, or Too Much To Ask; now it feels like a completely reasonable and fair thing to do. It also helps that there are several kids in our school system who have double surnames that are even more complicated and difficult and clunky than my kids’ surnames would have been, and everyone just copes with it and it’s fine. I felt so happy to hear my own surname read out at two kid high school graduations so far, and it’s made me realize I could have heard my own surname used continually throughout their childhoods/lives. Instead I used it not just as a middle name, but as a SECOND middle name. I encourage you to think about whether this is enough for you. If our system were fair, the parents’ surnames would be used in a way that gave them 50-50 importance; ask yourself if you’re willing to accept, and can be happy long-term about, a split that is more like 1-99. Especially if (and I can’t tell for sure if this is the case or not, but your phrasing makes me think it is) you have kept your own surname! If you still have your surname, a double surname (your name second, to avoid the Mason Dixon thing) will be easy for everyone to understand, and will make everything EASIER: the school will remember the surnames of BOTH parents, and will remember that you are related to your own children! your kids’ friends’ parents will be able to find you on Facebook! you can be The Dickson Mattson Family, and that will make sense for every family member’s surname! you won’t be the ONLY ONE in your family with a different surname! etc.! That is what I should have done: I should have kept my own surname, and given the kids a double surname, and then everything would have been fair AND would have made sense. (If you are thinking, “Well, but double surnames just push the problem down the road,” I’d say first of all “Okay, but so does using only the father’s family surname!” and also “Okay! I feel confident the kids can handle it!” and also “Okay! Then let’s use just YOUR surname!”)

Well. Onward.

If you are looking for names more like Quinn and Sloan for a girl, one option to consider is using Rowan. In the U.S. usage is unisex-leaning-somewhat-boy: 1166 new baby girls and 3231 new baby boys were given the name in 2020 (the 2021 information is expected in May).

If you like Maren but are not sure you want to take on the pronunciation issues, there’s Brynn and Corinne—both also similar to Quinn. But I wonder if any sort of -in name with your husband’s surname is too evocative of Winn-Dixie. That’s a fairly neutral/non-harmful association, though.

Brynn makes me think of Wynne, which makes me think of one of my own favorite names: Winifred. Underused (not even in the Top 1000, let alone the Top 100), but familiar and easy to spell and pronounce. Cute nicknames Winnie and Freddie/Fred, which feels like it gives her a fair amount of wiggle room to choose what’s right for her.

I also think of Linnea (linn-NAY-ah).

In fact, I am noticing you have a lot of -in- sounds in your options: Evelyn, Quinn, Maren. And then you’ve got Sloane and Rowan, with the long-O and N sounds, which makes me think of Fiona (#296 in 2020) and Simone (#875) and (long-shot, but I think it’s a great name) Joan (not in the Top 1000).

If you like Harriet but don’t want to repeat your friend’s nickname, I wonder if you’d like Henrietta? I think it’s splendid. Underused (again, not in the Top 1000), with various nicknames including Hennie, Henry if she’s in the mood, Hettie, Etta, etc. Though of course it loses the connection to your relationship.

This feels out of nowhere, but the name Claudia came to mind. Again, underused, and I think it’s a great name. (It would have been high on my list if it hadn’t been the name of one of Paul’s ex-girlfriends.)

If you like Nora but it’s too common (#30 in 2020), I suggest Flora (#932 in 2020) or Cora. Cora was #88 in 2020, but the bottom of the Top 100 may be quite a bit less common than you’re imagining. For example, the name Cora was given to .17% of baby girls in 2020. That’s 17 girls out of 10,000 girls; 17 babies out of approximately 20,000 babies, if we remember that girls are only about half. If a classroom has approximately 25 students in it, and approximately half of the students are girls, that’s 17 Coras per 800 classrooms—or 1 Cora per 47 classrooms. That’s national, of course; there will be schools where the name Cora is much more common, and schools where it is much less common. And no matter what name you choose, the statistics fully allow for little coincidental clusters: three Coras and zero Olivias, for example, even though Olivia is #1. But overall, the #88 name is not very common at all.

In fact, while we’re here, let’s do that math on Nora. At #30, it was used for approximately .32% of baby girls in 2020. That’s 32 Noras per 10,000 girls; 32 Noras per 20,000 babies; 32 Noras per 800 classrooms; 1 Nora per 25 classrooms. Many parents are remembering the days of Jennifer (used back then for approximately 4% of baby girls), but names are no longer used at those rates.

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

Thanks so much for all of your thoughtful advice on the name for our baby. I appreciated your idea to think of the style of names that we like as a way to narrow down our options.

More than anything, I appreciated the comments from you and your readers about the baby’s last name. You’re right that I didn’t change my last name when I married, and after reading your advice and talking it through with my husband, we decided to hyphenate the baby’s last name. I ended up having a fairly difficult labor and it felt so right, and fair, that this baby has both of our last names.

Anyway, George Silas Mattson Dickson was born at the end of March. George and Harald were both honor names from my husband’s maternal grandfather’s side of the family, so we decided on Silas as a middle name because we like it and its meaning and we didn’t feel that we needed two honor names.

Thank you again for your help!

K

Hi Swistle

I’ve been an avid reader of your blog despite easily deciding on the names of our first two children. We’re pregnant with a surprise third- a girl due late February.

Both our first two children have two middle names- Eleanor Lucy Féy (nn Ellie) and Zachary Harold Logan (nn Zach). Their full names and nicknames are used interchangeably in our house. The middle names are honor names. Our surname is W00let (with two L’s and two T’s).

Sibsets are very important to me, hence lots of dilemmas with naming this third baby. We don’t have a lot of honor names left to choose from due to using up four already! Does this baby need two middle names like her siblings? And lastly does it need to have multiple syllables and a nickname like her siblings?

Top contender for a first name that meets the above criteria is Alexandra, nickname Alex. The other name we love is Maeve but it doesn’t really have a nickname (I hate Maevy/ie). Other names on our list include Chloe, Sophia, Sloane and Blair.

For a second name we think Toni as my deceased dad was Anthony, called Tony. We like Grace as a third name but it has no family ties and not sure if we’re using it just to have three names.

Any wisdom or advice you can share would be appreciated.

Thanks
Victoria (Tori)

Everyone will have their own answers to these questions, and mine are:

• she DOES need to have two middle names like her siblings,
• it would be NICE (though not necessary) for her name to have a nickname, and
• it is NOT necessary for her name to have multiple syllables

I would not have thought to call a Maeve “Maevy.” I suggest the nickname Mae. Eleanor, Zachary, and Maeve; Ellie, Zach, and Mae. A friend’s child has the nickname Mae-Mae, which I would not have thought of (or thought to choose ahead of time, as they did), but with time it seems completely natural. Everybody calls her Mae-Mae. I had to pause to remember her actual given name. Or would you like Maisy? It’s so similar to Maevy that I wouldn’t think you would—but I don’t like Maevy either, and I very much like Maisy, so maybe!

Another possibility for a nickname for Maeve is to see if it combines well with any of the middle names. And only you know if your family is like this, but in my family we have a tendency to take names like that and lengthen them with completely unrelated endings: a Maeve would be called Maeve-Ann, Maeva-Louise, Maeva-Maria, Maeve-abelle, etc.

The name Alexandra isn’t sitting right with me. I think part of it is that it doesn’t seem like the same era as Eleanor, while also seeming too similar to it in sound: similar beginnings Ele- and Ale-; both with an -an- in the middle. And potentially nicknames Ellie and Allie (I don’t fret much about similar nicknames, but I would generally prefer to avoid them).

None of the other names on the list are grabbing my attention. For a sister to an Eleanor I’d be looking for something a little more current than Chloe and Sophia, a little less preppy than Sloane and Blair. But Chloe is the only one that feels surprising to me with Eleanor. Sophia seems fine style-wise. Sloane and Blair tip Eleanor more to the trim/tailored kind of elegant, rather than to the vintage/Austen kind.

For a second middle name, I suggest your name: ______ Toni Victoria W00let. Or I think it could be sweet to repeat one of her sister’s middle names, so that they match: ______ Toni Féy W00let. Or I think any name with a story works well: a name you wished was yours when you were a child; a place name; a friend’s name; the name of a writer or poet or scientist or politician. Or something to indicate the happiness of a surprise bonus baby: Joy, Felicity/Felice/Felicia, Beatrix/Beatrice. Or Valentine, if she’s born in February. Or, I’m not usually very into name meanings, but I happened to notice that the name Tressa means “third.” That doesn’t seem fun enough to use if you don’t also like the name—but if you DO like the name, it’s at least a little fun! I’d prefer one of the joy/luck names, though, story-wise.

Let’s look for more first-name options.

Jane. This comes to mind because of the Austen novels, and also because it is not entirely unsimilar to Maeve and Sloane. Do you like the nickname Janie? Eleanor, Zachary, and Jane; Ellie, Zach, and Janie.

Lydia. Also Austen. Nickname Lyddie/Liddy. Eleanor, Zachary, and Lydia; Ellie, Zach, and Lyddie.

Margaret. Still Austen. Nicknames are abundant: Maggie, Meg, Daisy, Greta. Eleanor, Zachary, and Margaret; Ellie, Zach, and Maggie/Meg/Daisy/Greta. I’m not sure about the repeated -t ending with the surname.

Josephine. A veer from Austen to Alcott. Eleanor, Zachary, and Josephine; Ellie, Zach, and Josie/Posey.

Louisa. While we’re on Alcott. Eleanor, Zachary, and Louisa; Ellie, Zach, and Lulu.

Rose. (Posey made me think of it.) Eleanor, Zachary, and Rose; Ellie, Zach, and Rosie.

Georgia. Eleanor, Zachary, and Georgia; Ellie, Zach, and Georgie.

Florence. Eleanor, Zachary, and Florence; Ellie, Zach, and Flora. (Possibility of Nora and Flora if Eleanor changes her nickname later on.)

Cordelia. Eleanor, Zachary, and Cordelia; Ellie, Zach, and Delia.

Vivian. Eleanor, Zachary, and Vivian; Ellie, Zach, and Vivi.

Meredith. This has some of the tailored sound of Sloane/Blair, but increases the femininity to put it closer in style to Eleanor. Eleanor, Zachary, and Meredith; Ellie, Zach, and Merrie.

Name update:

Hi Swistle

Thank you for answering my questions so thoughtfully.

Maeve Antonia Grace was born a few weeks ago.

The answer that we didn’t need a multiple syllable first name was enough to confirm that it was ok to use the name we love. Lots of readers suggested Antonia and we felt the longer first middle name definitely complemented two short other names.

Her nickname is currently ‘baby Maeve’ and we are ok with seeing how her nickname evolves organically.

Thanks again
Tori

Dear Swistle—

This should (hopefully) be a quick-ish question! To cut to the chase, my partner and I are expecting a baby boy in mid February and are, as of recently, concerned with 1) the usability (period) of our current top choice, and 2) the name’s usability alongside our daughter’s (significantly less whimsical) name.

I’m Lara and my partner is Jamie. Our 1.5 year old daughter is Dorothy May (called Dorothy, Dot, or Dottie depending on the day). Dorothy was named after my grandmothers (Dora and Katherine called Kathy) and Jamie’s mother (Maria called May). She has Jamie’s surname—which sounds like Flower without the F—as will this baby. For a middle name this time around, we are set on Gus or Gustaf after Jamie’s grandfather (his full name was Gustaf but went exclusively by Gus).

The baby’s potential first name—our current frontrunner—is Theseus.

A few questions. One, is this name usable? Or is it too mythological, whimsical, grand (etc)? We love the length, melody, and fact that it can be shortened to Theo (or even Teddy maybe) if our son decides it’s too ‘out there’ when he’s older. We don’t think the Greek myth/hero association is an issue necessarily, however, we are aware that it might be too much weight for a kid to carry. We’re also aware that the name shares similar sounds/roots with Dorothy—though is pretty stylistically different—and cannot decide if this is an issue or not. (If the baby mostly goes by Theo, I see no problem with Dottie and Theo together, but who knows.)

We love the name but feel we’ve entered an inescapable echo chamber, here, and would appreciate external (non-familial) advice. Any insight you or your readers have would be helpful! If not Theseus/Theo, we would return to our initial lists. Mine is: Atticus, Cyrus/Cy, Jacoby, Tobias/Toby. Jamie’s is: Leonard/Leo, Francis/Frankie, Felix. This will definitely be our last kid so potential future sibling names aren’t a part of the equation. And if the baby were a girl we would probably have used Beatrice.

Thanks for all your help :)

Lara and Jamie

I started by checking the Social Security Administration‘s database to see the current usage of the name Theseus: in 2020 (the 2021 figures should be out this May), the name was given to 22 new baby boys. So it is not unused, but it is very rare.

Next I gave it a day or two to settle in. I pictured a classroom of second-graders, and imagined that one of them was named Theseus. At the grocery store, I looked at store employees and various fellow shoppers and imagined finding out that one of them was named Theseus. I mentioned the name to the kids to see what they thought. I imagined bringing my child to the doctor’s office and saying “This is Theseus; he has a 2:00 appointment.” Or calling to make him an appointment, and giving the name Theseus. I imagined a man at Starbucks, ordering a drink and giving the barista the name Theseus.

I associate the name with mythology, of course—but more importantly, I don’t associate it with ANYTHING ELSE: there is no other Theseus in my experience to dilute that association. “Theseus—like the mythological king, like the Ship of Theseus, like the guy who killed the minotaur” is the only clarifying reference. Like Odysseus, like Sisyphus, like Prometheus—these are mythology names, and for whatever reason we don’t see them used much for current children. (Though perhaps now that we’ve dug out many of the less-familiar biblical names and made them mainstream, mythology will be next. I can picture using Perseus/Percy. And I know a child named Athena.)

I find it difficult to say with the surname: Theseus Flower-without-the-F.

It reminds me of the word thesis.

Here is my own opinion: I would not use it, and I would not want to have that name for myself—but I don’t think it’s unusable. (And how else do we bring fresh names into usage, except by USING THEM?) I do think it is the sort of name where the parents would need to not only tolerate but WELCOME a steady stream of reactions and questions. It’s not a name that can be given casually: it’s an attention-getting name, and everyone who hears it will know that the parents knew that when they chose it.

I think it helps that it is somewhat similar to the popular name Theodore. I think it helps that some people will know the name from mythology, so they won’t be starting from scratch. I think it is absolutely CRUCIAL that it works to use the nickname Theo, in case the child is not the sort of person who enjoys having an attention-getting name.

But I think it would work better as a spectacular middle name. And in fact, what I would suggest is swapping the names you’re considering: Gustaf (or just Gus) Theseus Flower-without-the-F. Dorothy and Gustaf; Dot and Gus. It bothers me that then the first AND last names are from one parent’s side of the family (that also bothers me if it’s the middle and last)—but Dottie and Gus is so good.

Name update:

Dear Swistle—

Happy August and hope you’re doing well!

I wrote to you back in January about naming our son (top choice at the time was Theseus), brother to Dorothy, surname Flower-without-the-F.

Well. It’s been almost half a year since that letter, and I realized the other day we never updated you on the outcome of our mini conundrum.

Our son was born in February and is almost 6 months (wild!). We were very inspired by your readers comments—thanks immensely for all the assistance—and ended up choosing a suggestion we hadn’t previously considered.

We scrapped Theseus (just felt a bit too out there after reading your note), and went with Ignatius instead! Ignatius James is his full name.

We switched the middle to honor my father, as per your suggestion about balancing honor names. James also happens to be a fun nod to Jamie’s name, so it worked perfectly.

We’ve actually been calling him Gus—trying to make it stick! Oftentimes he’s also Iggy. Dorothy is smitten. As are we :)

Thanks again for all your wonderful advice. We appreciate it.

Our best,
Lara and Jamie

Hi Swistle,

I love your blog and am desperately hoping you can help with naming our baby boy due in early March. We have a 3 year old daughter who was easily named when I was 20 weeks pregnant. My grandmother’s name was Edith Virginia and we named our daughter Eden Virginia. My grandma went by Virginia so changing the first name a bit didn’t dilute the specialness at all for me. I love love the name we chose and it gave me so much joy and comfort to name her after my grandma who had passed away shortly before we found out about Eden.

Anyway fast forward to now we are expecting baby #2 and the naming process is SO SO much harder this time. Our last name is spelled very differently but sounds like Slickter. Maybe I’m overthinking it but I keep hearing “licker” with certain names we try… I also feel like part of the problem is that I’m still adjusting to the idea of having a boy (and to the knowledge that we’re responsible for raising him to be a good person in our current society). I feel like most boy names I come across I have some sort of negative association with from people I’ve known from growing up/school/life. Or the name means something like FIGHTER CONQUEROR TOUGH GUY which I know is probably a silly thing to care about but always turns me off.

Other helpful info: We aren’t sure yet if we’ll try for a third baby or not. I haven’t let myself think about what girls names we would have considered if this baby was a girl because it makes me a little sad (so many fun pretty names!!!) but other options for Eden were Florence and Winifred (Winnie). I really like nature names for girls but haven’t loved any of the boy options I’ve seen.

Boy names we like but can’t use for various reasons: Benjamin/Ben, Arlo, Adam (I feel like I can’t use this with already having an Eden- too bible-y), Gideon (also too bible-y with Eden? I’m not religious enough to know but my mom says yes). At the start of my pregnancy I had my heart set on Etienne but my husband gently pointed out I probably liked it because it’s so similar to Eden which seems obvious now but I genuinely didn’t notice before he brought it up.

Names we are semi considering: Elliot (probably the front runner but since we might try for baby #3 I don’t really want to repeat the E first initial and feel locked in), Jude, Avery, Winston (I still like the nickname Winnie but don’t think I love Winston on it’s own). The baby’s middle name will probably be Michael (husband’s middle name) although we’re flexible if it doesn’t go with the first name we pick.

I really really have been trying to internalize your advice about not having to feel sparkly magical feelings for a name and that picking a fine name is good enough but I feel so blah about all of our options. I’m hoping maybe hearing a few suggestions from someone whose name tastes I really trust will help something stand out vs just reading through lists in the baby name book. I feel like time is running out and I’m starting to panic! I know some people can go to the hospital with a list and see what fits once the baby is born but I know if I tried to do that we would either leave the hospital with a nameless baby or I would spend the next few months second guessing whatever our last minute pick was. Any help or advice is appreciated!

Thank you,

Amanda

My own clear favorite of your options is Elliot. When I was expecting our second baby, the name we liked best if he’d been a girl started with the same letter as our firstborn’s name. I would have preferred not to repeat initials at all within the sibling group—but we liked the name enough that it hit the “Are we actually going to give up the name we love and agree on, just because of the initial?? NO!” point. But I too was concerned that we would feel like we had to keep going with the same initial for future kids—or, more accurately, concerned that OTHER PEOPLE would feel that way. So what I’d decided to do (before we found out I was expecting a boy and so the repeating-initial was a non-issue), was take PREVENTATIVE MEASURES. I was going to REPEATEDLY MENTION that the repeating initial was a coincidence we would have preferred to avoid, and that we were not going to keep going with that. I was going to make it so NO ONE could expect it. Possibly I was going to OVERDO IT, considering how little I think most people care about such things. But even just having a PLAN was helpful to me: I would PLAN to not feel pressured; we would DECIDE to not feel pressured.

I think Avery is really nice, too. I like the way a future Winifred/Florence would tip the name’s style more old-fashioned, like in Charlotte’s Web.

I grew up in a Christian environment, and Eden and Gideon seem biblical to me but not TOO biblical the way Eden and Adam do. (And with Eden and Adam, it’s not even so much that it’s too biblical, but more that they come from the same story but one is a place and one is a person, and that feels weird.) But they do seem like kind of a lot of N and D and long-E, so combined with the Kinda Biblical issue I agree I probably wouldn’t use it.

I like Winston, but of the “we can only use one” pairing of Winston and Winifred, I love Winifred so much more. I am also EXTREMELY KEEN on the name Florence, so I don’t feel complete despair about losing Winifred if you find you are getting happy sparks from the name Winston.

All right, let’s see if we can find a few more options.

When I think of Elliot, I also think of Everett and Emmett. For some reason I am finding I don’t like the sound of Emmett Slickter, but I do like Everett Slickter.

Because Elliot was on my own name list (I think the only reason we didn’t use it is that Paul and I could not agree on spelling), it also makes me think of other names from my own list (which is now at least 14 years out of date, so at some point I am going to have to stop suggesting these names, lest I be the equivalent of the grandmother asking why people aren’t considering Normal Names such as Ashley and Brian):

Charles/Charlie
George
Henry
Leo
Milo
Oliver
Simon

Well, most of those are a bust with your surname. I do like Henry Slickter. And I like that “Eden and Henry” has a subtle repeating -en- sound. (If you have another baby and it’s a girl, you could name her Florence! Not that you should feel locked in to something as small and silly as a repeating -en- sound! But if it would be fun! Eden, Henry, and Florence.)

Or Harvey? Harvey Slickter; Eden and Harvey.

Or Calvin? Calvin Slickter; Eden and Calvin.

Frederick Slickter has an interesting repeating sound, and I can’t tell if I like it or not. Also, it would probably rule out using Winifred. Eden and Frederick.

The eye tends to skip right past it in the name book, so I will draw your attention to the name John. John Slickter; Eden and John. It FEELS so overused, and yet I don’t know any kids named John. When I imagine encountering the name on a baby, it feels like a fresh surprise.

Name update:

Thank you so much for your help! Elliot Michael was born 3/3. 9lbs 11.5 oz! We went to the birth center still not quite sure about a name but decided pretty quickly after he was born that he was an Elliot (although he’s been here two weeks now and his 3 year old sister still insists his name is Spinny). Thank you again!

Hello Swistle,

Over three years ago, you and your commenters helped cement the name for my first-born son. I wasn’t sure how to deal with honor names/my desire to be equally represented in the naming of the baby. Ultimately, we named him F!nley D@vid Ru$$ with the last name Whit with an e at the end. His first name is his paternal great grandfather, last name is from my husband’s side (though I took his name) and second two names are my father’s name and my mother’s maiden name.

We are expecting another boy in March and are struggling with names this time, again. Given our first-born got a name from my husband’s family, I’m sort of taking the lead in the first name for this one. To mirror how we named our first one, we have decided to give him my MIL’s maiden name as his 2nd middle name, so his last two names are set as Elliott and Whit with an e at the end. Finally, for a first middle name we are pretty set on honoring my family with either Brocke (my great grandfather) or Brandon (my brother).

SO! That leads us to the first name, and we are struggling. Our first son’s name is rare-ish, especially for boys, and I love that but I’m struggling to find a similarly-situated name. I love nicknames and more classic names. Are we missing some obvious good choices? Or am I overthinking the less common/more common combination of names?

Right now our short list is:
Charles (my favorite, but I worry it is too common compared with big bro, the state where we live it’s in the top 10)
Malcolm (I loved for a while, but now my OB’s name is that…)
Henry (I love this name but it’s soo popular now)
Lincoln
Kennedy
Theodore (with the presidential names I worry might be laying it on thick with my first’s initials as FDR…? I like tying the name to history, though…)

Thanks so much in advance!!

F!nley is a name that feels a little more common to me than it actually is: I was surprised when I looked it up on the Social Security Administration’s website and saw it was only #304 for boys in 2020. Part of it is that it is also used for girls (#201 for girls in 2020) so that puts more Finleys in the field; part of it is that the name Finn is also in use (#178 for boys in 2020); and part of it is probably just that it’s a name that caught my attention when it came into more common usage, and I just happened to notice it at a rate disproportionate to its actual use.

Still, I wonder if that same phenomenon might have happened to others? The name Henry is Top 10 now, and yet brothers named F!nley and Henry doesn’t seem surprising to me. But again, some of this is very subjective: I don’t think I know ANY little boys named Henry, so the name still feels fresh and underused to me; someone whose children are in daycare with multiple Henrys and no Finleys (or multiple Henrys AND multiple Finleys) is going to see things differently.

Has the name Malcolm become associated with your OB for you, so that it no longer seems right for your baby? or is it more the awkwardness of the situation? If it’s just the awkwardness, I think that can be surmounted: I would feel briefly awkward, too, but looking back from this stage of life I can say it would no longer matter to me at this point. I feel a little funny about putting the name Malcolm with your surname, however. (I see I felt a little funny about it last time, too.) I asked Paul for a second opinion, and he says he thinks it’s fine.

The name Kennedy is an interesting one. In the United States, even though the name Kennedy is strongly associated with a male president and a bunch of other male politicians, the usage of the name leans heavily toward girls: 3,342 new baby girls given the name in 2020, and only 140 new baby boys. The name was #72 for girls in 2020, and not even in the Top 1000 for boys.

I think my top choice for this baby is Theodore, and I don’t think anyone is going to notice that your first child’s first/middle initials are FDR and then tie that into your second child’s first name being the first name of another president. F!nley and Theodore; Fin and Theo/Teddy.

But it’s true the name Theodore is more common than F!nley: #23 in 2020. Poking around in the 300-ranking range, here are some names that catch my eye:

Callum (#335)
Ellis (#325) (no good with Elliott as a middle)
Emerson (#267)
Gideon (#323)
Lawson (#357)
Louis (#260)
Rory (#330)
Simon (#251)
Spencer (#316)

I would be a little tempted if I were you to consider your mother-in-law’s maiden name Elliott for the first name. And that tempts me EVEN THOUGH it would mean BOTH boys had first names AND last names from your husband’s family, which would bug me a lot. It’s just so fun, and I love being able to use maiden names as first names, and I love the names together. F!nley and Elliott! (Or, if we could go back in time, wouldn’t Russ and Elliott be terrific brother names??)

Name update:

Hi!

Very pleased to announced that very much to the credit of one of your commenters, we went with a total wildcard in naming our second son. A big thank you to “Saraya” who suggested Ciaran. My middle name is the female version of this and given that my first son’s his first name is one of my husband’s middle names, it struck me and I settled on it almost immediately. I loved that it is rare (in the US) and also has such a strong Irish/Scottish Gaelic connection. We then chose to honor my dad a second time, having lost him the day before I learned I was pregnant, with his middle name Th0mas as the first middle name.

Ciaran Th0mas Elli0tt Whit (with an e at the end) was born last week! We are so happy he’s here and has the perfect name.

Thank you thank you!!

Swistle,

I stumbled across your website tonight and loved the type of advice you gave people regarding naming their children. I’m hoping you can do the same for my husband and I.

We are pregnant with our second, and likely last, child. The pregnancy has been very high risk since early on, so mentally my husband and I are just now able to take the time to think of names. Delivery is right around the corner due to preterm labor concerns and I’m panicking that I don’t yet have a name picked out for this little one!

We live in the US. Our last name sounds like Engel but is spelled differently (rhymes with “single.”) Our first born’s name is Griffin Michael. Everyone in the family’s middle name starts with an M, which is an odd little thing we’d like to keep going. My husband’s middle name is Michael, just like my son. The gender of this baby is unknown and we plan to keep it that way until delivery. We are pretty set on the name Blair for a girl. I have always liked it and surprisingly my husband approved instantly. If this little one is a girl, we would like to use Marie as it is my middle name too.

The main issue we have is with the boy name. It has been the hardest! We had a very short list of names that we enjoyed, we narrowed down, and we ultimately settled on Beckett Matthew. At this point I have no other contenders, but I go through waves of liking and disliking this name frequently. My husband seems to as well. When we chose our son Griffin’s name we liked that it was different but not too different, easily pronounced and recognized, and had a cute nickname of Fin (which honestly rarely gets used). I love the idea of last names as first names and want to keep that going with the little one too.

We liked Beckett for all of these reasons, but worry that it is even less popular and maybe a little too different. We really like the name Beck, but feel the single syllable clashes with our last name. When I get in my disapproval phase of the name, it feels to me like we are almost trying *too* hard with a name rather than choosing one that is well established but still less than popular. I also can envision a little old man Griffin but not necessarily a little old man Beckett. I sometimes worry that with delivery being so close, I am choosing Beckett for the sake of choosing a name (although we narrowed it down before preterm labor was a concern). While we are keeping the name choices a surprise until birth, I did confide in my younger sister who approved of Beckett Matthew. I’m afraid older relatives may not get it.

I do like Beckett most days, but I think I just need reassurance or opinions from a third party before I really sell into it. I’m also open to other suggestions as well that maybe I haven’t already thought of. I appreciate any help that you can give me.

Thank you!

Since your girl-name choice is one syllable, and so is the nickname of your first child, it doesn’t seem to me as if the problem with the nickname Beck could be that the one syllable doesn’t work with your surname. But I’m curious to know what the issue IS. It could be that something about the specific sounds of Beck feels wrong with your surname (Beck may feel sharper or more abrupt than the softer sounds of Fin or Blair); or it could be a symptom of you not wanting to choose the name Beckett and looking for reasons not to choose it; or it could be anxious feelings and cold feet as the naming deadline approaches.

Other concerns I think you can toss out: (1) that older relatives may not get it (this is common, and in most cases I think needs to be ignored for the sake of normal name-popularity cycles); (2) that it is difficult to picture an old man named Beckett (by the time the Becketts are old, I am confident it will seem perfectly natural—and if it doesn’t, it won’t matter at all); (2) that it is too different (it feels familiar and not out-there to me, even though I don’t think I know anyone named Beckett).

Since you would like to consider some other options, my first suggestion is Bennett. It is quite similar to Beckett in several ways, but it has a softer sound, and you may prefer the warmer, softer nickname Ben. Bennett Engel; Griffin and Bennett; Fin and Ben.

My second suggestion is Everett. Again, we are working with some similar name elements, and it’s a surname name, but it has a softer sound I think you might like, and I can definitely picture a little old man named Everett even now. Everett Engel; Griffin and Everett.

(At this point I would like to just make sure we have all already realized that the -t ending with your surname forms the word Tingle. I am assuming, since you have Beckett as your finalist, that this is okay with you—but JUST IN CASE it is something (1) that has escaped your notice AND (2) that you are not keen on, this seems like the last possible moment to bring it up.)

My third suggestion, if you have the energy for this and no one would blame you if you did not, is to start a new list for names that do not meet your preferences but you like them anyway. For example: names that are not surname names, names that may not be as easily pronounced as you’d prefer, names that are more or less popular than you had in mind—just an absolute No Rules brainstorm list. Even if you were not likely stopping at two children, my feeling is that after the naming process is complete, almost no one gives even one fig, let alone two, about whether all the names coordinate to the same set of preferences. If this time you go for a non-surname name, or a name that could be mispronounced, or a name that’s more common than you’d prefer—well, it’s all just FINE!

And especially if it is also a name you feel pretty sure about, a name that makes your hearts sing, etc. Maybe such a name doesn’t exist (for boy names especially, I found I had to make my goal “a name I feel warmly satisfied with” rather than “a name I love”); but if you CAN find a name you love (or at least feel more warmly satisfied with), I think in the long run that’s going to make you happier than reflecting on the ways the two kids’ names line up preferences-wise (though that kind of thing CAN also give significant satisfaction, so it’s win-win here).

I’d like to get this posted as soon as possible, since time is short and I’ve already kept this waiting for several days, so I may come back to add to this list of additional suggestions, but here it is real quick:

Calvin
Darian
Davis (makes “single” with surname)
Elliot (makes “tingle” with surname)
Harvey
Jasper
Louis (makes “single” with surname)
Nathan
Nolan (kind of a lot of N with the surname)
Oliver
Simon
Theodore
Wesley
Wilson

Name update:

Swistle,

We wanted to update you and let you know that we chose Bennett Matthew! We could not be happier as his name fits him perfectly!

You were totally right that Beckett was just too harsh sounding (although we didn’t know that’s why we didn’t like it until you suggested it). We started by making a whole new list with no rules and still came back to Bennett.

Thank you so much for your kind words and suggestions!

Hi Swistle,

We are expecting a baby boy in January and are going back and forth on a limited set of names, influenced by one name’s meaning in particular. Our last name is similar to K!stler, but switch the s and t, and make it a bit more obviously Dutch in spelling and pronunciation.

This will be our second child – older brother is J@ck (just J@ck, a nod to his paternal line of Johns, including great-grandpa John-called-J@ck), middle name Br0oks which was just a name we both liked as a middle. We likely would have named a girl Marg0t M3rryn, though I was about 10% hesitant on that; it’s still in the mix for a potential third child.

We agreed early on in this pregnancy that this baby felt like an 0liver, and we were just debating middle names for a time. William and Clair were on my list – male family names on my side, which feels fair since J@ck got a family name on my husband’s side. But while watching swimming during the summer Olympics, one of us joked about Rowdy as a name, after Rowdy Gaines. I should note that we are big Olympics fans and named our dog after Bode Miller, the Olympic skier.

Well, the joke settled and soon Rowdy felt like an actual possibility – it really, really grew on us. We like the sound of it with our last name, we like that it’s different, we like the nod to the Olympics. The problem is that Rowdy is also rowdy, the adjective. The most positive definition of rowdy is “boisterous” and the worst is “disorderly” or “disturbing the peace” – ouch! We as a family are not really the disorderly, disturbing the peace type, although boisterous suits. What if our child is not disorderly or boisterous at all and we’ve given him this name? Or, because I do believe in the power of words, what if we define his personality by giving him a defining name?

So, maybe it goes in the middle spot, and for a while we have been leaning towards 0liver first, Rowdy middle, with the possibility of calling him Rowdy as he gets older if the name suits. Ok, that’s settled.

Except: we are smitten enough with the name (the sound, not the meaning) that we’ve been referring to him occasionally as Rowdy – just testing it out, as one does – and we like it. A lot! But I don’t feel like naming a kid one thing and calling him another, from birth, is the right move for me. I felt that way strongly with J@ck – my husband (who is the fourth named son and does not have John anywhere in his own name) lobbied for another John-called-J@ck, and I said well J@ck is enough of a name itself that if we know we’re going to call him J@ck, I’d just prefer to make it his official name. If we really think we’re going to call this baby Rowdy, I feel we should make Rowdy his given name. We’ve discussed this, and have come to like the idea of Rowdy first, Clair middle. The first time my husband suggested that, my gut said wow, that’s a name! Followed quickly by, am I brave enough to do that? It feels like two names that both require explanation.

Swistle, what are your thoughts on adjective names? I guess I’m also asking your thoughts on planned nicknames. Are we brave enough to give our son an adjective name with a meaning we don’t fully identify with? Or do we go with the safe choice, and approach the adjective name as a middle-but-potential-nickname?

Thank you for your insight!
Laura

I think it has happened only three or four times on this site that I have said an unmitigated “No” to a name, and I am saying it to the name Rowdy. I can see why it appeals, but it resoundingly fails the “Would I want this name for myself?” test—to the point where it also fails the “Would I want to encounter this name on someone else?” test. Speaking of tests: have you tried The Starbucks Test, where your husband goes to Starbucks or any coffee/food place where he has to give a name with his order, and tells the clerk that his name is Rowdy, just to see how that feels and what the reaction is? Sometimes even just IMAGINING doing that can be enough to make the issue clear. Another test is to go to a public place and imagine the name on each male person you see. Does it work on the awkward Target clerk? How about on the middle-aged man in a business suit? Is there any real person other than an attractive world-famous athlete on whom the name seems like a blessing?

The word rowdy has negative connotations, as you mention, and it feels too lightweight as a given name. (As an aside: it is refreshing to say this for I think the first time ever on this site about a name being considered for a boy.) It could fit the child’s temperament very well or amusingly poorly, and all of the possible fits will lead to other people making the same tired comments again and again. It feels like a joke, like giving someone the middle name Danger or Trouble; or a caricature, like if you wanted a name to mock the untamable sexy cowboy character in a fake over-the-top romance novel. The “brave vs. safe” framing is unhelpful, and sets up a false choice: you have many more options than those two; and if you decide to go with a name you consider brave, it doesn’t have to be Rowdy.

Rowdy Gaines’s parents’ naming style seems to have been the exact opposite of yours: they named their child a name they never intended to use (Ambrose, after his father Ambrose-called-Buddy) and called him by a nickname instead. This is an entire category of naming practices you specifically want to avoid. And just on top of everything else, you believe in the power of words. This makes for a very poor fit with your naming preferences, and is leaving you feeling stuck.

You mention having used Olympic athlete names for pets, and I think Rowdy would be perfect for that: you’d get to use the name you love, and say it many times a day, and it could be the given name and not have to be a nickname or middle name. (And it’s beautifully parallel to the name of your dog Bode, since Bode Miller is ALSO an athlete going by a name other than his given name. …Er, not that even Swistle pushes for coordination/consistency among pet names.) I also think Rowdy works beautifully as a Fetus Nickname: many parents continue to call their child by the pet name Teddy or Bear or Jellybean or whatever, long after giving them a completely different name on the birth certificate.

I feel as if this is a situation where suggestions of similar names will not work: there is something specific about the name Rowdy that is tugging your heart, and me suggesting Grady and Riley is not going to ease the pain of what I think is the necessary next step, which is Letting Go of the Name. Still, just in case you want the list later, or in case other parents are reading this post, let’s list a few:

Brody
Casey
Chance
Chase
Cody
Emmett
Everett
Finn
Flynn
Gage
Grady
Lee
Leo
Liam
Nolan
Ranger
Reid
Riley
Rory
Ross
Rufus
Ryder
Sam

Some of these I wouldn’t necessarily pair with a name like J@ck—but J@ck and Riley seems really nice to me, or J@ck and Reid, or J@ck and Casey, or J@ck and Lee, or J@ck and Leo.

I think it might also help soothe your heart to consider the names of other athletes you like, though it can be tricky to evaluate names in that context.

On another note, I am hugely interested in the idea of using the middle name Clair for this child. I have complained in that past that our culture finds it very positive/appealing to take names traditionally used for boys and use them for girls (there are so many baby girls right now with the middle name James), but not the other way around. You are an exception to this, and it thrills me to see it. (I will add that when using the middle name Clair/Clare/Claire, I tend to avoid first names that end in an -y/-ie/-ay sound, because of the eclair effect. But I don’t consider it a hard and fast rule, because eclairs are a positive association and the eclair effect can be charming.)

Name update:

Hello Swistle! I wanted to follow up and share with you that 0liver Rowdy was born in January. We appreciated all of your feedback and ideas, and honestly the strong reaction against Rowdy (yours and in the comments!) not only moved it out of consideration for a first name but also made me rethink whether I wanted to use it as a middle. My husband remained in support of it as a middle (turns out he knows a Rowdy?!), but it threw me into a bit of a crisis and he deferred to me. 0liver Clair just felt too stuffy, and I found I just didn’t like any other middle names with 0liver, so we ended up coming up with a completely different first and middle name set for a while. But in the end, we both just kept coming back to 0liver Rowdy. I was prepared for a negative reaction to the name but it’s actually been overwhelmingly positive. Most people who ask assume that it’s a family name, and I have to admit that I kind of love that now it will be. I was surprised by how many people know of a Rowdy in one way or another – famous people, real or fictional, or even a few on a personal level. Some friends have taken to calling him Rowdy after all, which is fine with us; he will tell us if he likes that or not as he gets older. We mostly call him 0liver, or 0llie as a nickname of endearment. Sometimes Pouty Rowdy when that cute baby pout comes out. We’ve decided to define rowdy for ourselves as “spirited” and “boisterous” which feels positive and suitable. So far he’s a sweet, happy, chatty, and loud(!) little guy. Thank you for talking me out of it as a first name, but I am also very glad we stuck with it as a middle!

Hi Swistle,

Long time reader here! We are expecting our second (and likely final) child in April. Our son will be 2 when this little girl arrives, and we are very excited. Our last name sounds just like Such-inz, but the first letter is H.

We were all over the place with names for our 1.5 year old son and didn’t end up deciding until day 2 of our (very strange, early Covid days) hospital stay. His first name is R0bert after my husband, and his middle name is a family name, H@ll. In order to keep things less confusing in our household and because we liked doing something a little different, he goes by his middle name. We live in the South, so this is somewhat common. Even so, I somewhat regret not giving him the first name H@ll because we have to clarify/correct/explain at every appointment, and it just feels a bit convoluted. I liked the flow of R0bert H@ll Such-inz more than H@ll R0bert Such-inz, but I don’t know if that was a strong enough reason.

ANYWAY, moving forward, we now have a little girl to name! One of our favorite names is Nell, and my grandmother’s name was Eleanor. It seems like a miss to give a nickname-y name that could correspond with a lovely honor name (we also like the sound of Eleanor) and NOT use the full name, so we are thinking Eleanor, nn Nell, unless we are then approaching a similar, more-complicated-than-it-needs-to-be situation again like with our son.

We also love Clare. It was my given middle name, and I love that it’s simple and feels bright. My spelling didn’t have an “i” in it, and that’s the way I prefer the name, but again…is that an annoying thing for her to have to swim counter-current on forever? It’s also so much more common than H@ll, but perhaps the shortness of both and the fact that at least H@ll is a common word doesn’t make it feel too problematic to me.

Another top family name contender is Grace. Similar to Clare, I like its simplicity and well, grace.

Other names we like are Emma and Eliza.

What do you think? Any suggestions we’re missing? I think we can figure out a middle name fairly easily once we land the first.

THANK YOU!

Heather

I think the baby’s name is Eleanor (Nell) Clare Suchinz, Eleanor after your grandmother and Clare after you. (I SO WISH I had considered giving my daughter one of my names.) H@ll and Nell are similar, but because one is a middle name and the other is a nickname, that doesn’t bother me; and if it turns out to be an issue, Nell can go by Eleanor or Nora or Ellie or Lennie instead. And Eleanor/Nell doesn’t seem anywhere near as complicated a situation as R0bert/H@ll: Nell is an established nickname for Eleanor. And I don’t think she’s going to be much bothered by needing to spell her middle name occasionally. So I think this is a clear winner: a beautiful name packed with family significance.

Name update:

Hi Swistle!

Baby girl arrived right on time and we are over the moon. We appreciated all your thoughts and the commenter thoughts but in the end went a slightly different way- Gr@ce Ele@nOr Suchinz. Will save Clare for a potential future baby! :)

All best,

The Suchinzes