T. writes:

I’ve been reading your site forever and never thought I would be writing for advice, but here I am. I am 20 weeks pregnant with our first child, and we are not learning the sex. Our surname sounds like Campton but with an “o” instead of the “a”. We are actually very similar in terms of naming style–we each made a long list of favorite names and used the overlapping names as our short list. For a boy we have narrowed to August “Gus” or Felix, and the middle name will likely be my husband’s name (Miles) or his grandfather’s name (George). It’s the girl’s name with which we are struggling. For as long as I can remember, I’ve wanted to name my little girl after my grandmother who helped raise me. Her name is Clara Colleen Co____, and she is called Coco by everyone in her life who doesn’t refer to her as “mom”. We even call her Coco instead of grandma, granny, etc. I’ve always thought our girl would be Clara and my husband was totally on board–we’ve been together since high school and he loves my grandma, and he also liked the name (despite the climbing popularity).

The problem came when I was discussing names one day with her. I didn’t tell her about my plan but we were talking about her name and she said she never really liked the name Clara because it was “weird” to her when she was young, and that she chose to use her middle name (that’s how her nickname came about). I don’t feel like it’s very honoring at this point to use the name my grandma doesn’t like, so on to problem number two: I actually like the name Colleen, but my family is from the rural south and everyone pronounces it with a long “o”–Cole-een. I’m not a fan of that pronunciation at all.

My husband and I have talked about different options for a girl including: 1. Find another name starting with C or Co since our surname starts with Co and call her “Coco”–he likes Colette and I like Corinne, but we don’t LOVE either., 2. Use our favorite girl name (Sylvie, but we also love Mabel) and use Colleen as an honor name in the middle spot. I’m not sold on this idea because of the pronunciation issue. I would want to introduce her with a short “o” sound in Colleen, but I know I would have to be quiet around my family and let them pronounce it the way they always have so as not to hurt feelings/seem pretentious. 3. Scrap the honor name altogether and use Sylvie or Mabel with another middle name that we like. 4. Use Sylvie or Mabel with Clara in the middle spot. I feel like I don’t have a great option in terms of the honor name, but it’s hard to think of letting that go since I’ve wanted to honor her for so long (my husband and I agreed on using the honor middle from his side if the baby is a boy, or on the next child if this one is a girl). HELP!

I suggest an additional option: 5. Have another talk with your grandmother. It doesn’t sound to me as if she’s necessarily saying she doesn’t like her name—it could just be she didn’t like it when she was younger and was telling you that story. My friend’s mother always hated her unstylish, weird name—which is Isabel. She may still hate it now, but my guess is that she feels better about it now that public opinion has done a complete flip. Your grandmother, too, may be telling a story about her name that no longer applies: it’s the story of how she came to go by her middle name, and not necessarily the story of how she still feels now, or how she would feel about the name on a darling little namesake. (My guess is that there is nothing better than a beloved baby for changing someone’s mind about a name.)

I’d also suggest reading the post Baby Boy Harris. In that post, the situation was far more severe: the woman’s father volunteered during her pregnancy that he’d “never forgive her” if they used his name for their baby—which was exactly what they were secretly planning to do. She was very upset, since she loved his name AND loved him, which is a very nice combination for an honor name. She talked with him again, and he was completely sheepish about the whole thing and was thrilled that they wanted to use his name. I think it’s common for people to say silly things, especially if it’s in the back of their minds that they kind of WOULD love a little namesake but they don’t want to presume, and they want to communicate that they’d understand if you didn’t like their names enough to use them.

My guess (and this is the kind of guess I’d be willing to put money on) is that your grandmother would be completely thrilled if you used her name, and that she was just thinking about baby names and talking idly about them. My guess is that even if she still does think of her name as being kind of weird, that if you told her you’d always wanted to name your daughter after her she would be very happy about that. It doesn’t sound to me as if her feelings are anywhere near as strong as the father who deliberately said not to use his name—and look how nicely that turned out.

But if you talk to her and against all my expectations she sincerely doesn’t want you to use her name, then I suggest using Coco as the middle name, since it’s the name your grandmother probably most identifies with. Sylvie Coco lets you use your top-choice girl name plus honor your grandmother with the middle name. Sylvia Coco has a somewhat better flow to my ear (and she could still go by the nickname Sylvie), but I probably wouldn’t let that decide things if I significantly preferred Sylvie, especially if she’ll mostly be known as Sylvie Campton.

Name update! T. writes:

Hi! Just wanted to send an update and thank you to you and your readers for your input on naming our baby. Our baby GIRL was born on February 3rd…3 weeks early! We decided to go with our overall favorite name, and put the honor name in the middle, and after much back and forth stuck with Clara. My grandma was pleased as punch with her new little namesake. Here is a picture of our sweet Sylvie Clara:

Louise writes:

I’m not sure if you’ll answer my question as mine isn’t a baby name one, but as all the babies that people name eventually grow up and have to use the chosen name on a daily basis I thought my predicament might be an interesting one.

My parents named me Emily Louise, but always intended to use Louise as they preferred that order with my surname (which sounds like Barvee but with an H). It seems like every second female I meet in their 20s has the middle name Louise (I’m 24), but never as the chosen name. I do not like the name Louise- to me it sounds whiney, with the drawn-out ‘eeze’ sound at the end, and as a child I was teased as Lou sounds like loo (toilet in the UK, where I grew up), though I have gotten over that now and quite like Lou. However, I much prefer Emily, but after 24 years of using Louise do you think it is a good idea to change? The double ‘y’ sound of Emily with with my surname doesn’t sounds so great, though obviously most of the time I’d just be using Emily. I currently work in France, where both names are known and used (though Louise is a much rarer older person’s name, like Joan or Felicity). How would I convince my friends and in particular, my family, to use it? Is it a silly idea to try and change it this late in life, or would I always be known as ‘Emily-who-used-to-be-Louise’?. So should I change it, or learn to like my name? (and if the latter, maybe your commentators can convince me to like it!).

Even if you don’t use my email, let this be a warning to parents to use the child’s legal first name- it’s so frustrating to correct doctors, landlords etc., and explain every time someone asks me what my middle name is!

I think if you would prefer to be called Emily, it will work out just fine to make the switch. There will be a bit of a wearying hurdle to get over (the announcement, the explanations, the corrections, the reminders), plus a few lingering issues (relatives and friends who can’t/won’t change), but that it will work out in the long run. It certainly helps on all levels that Emily is in fact your first name. And I think Emily works fine with your surname.

People who already know and love you (family and good friends) will likely take the longest to adjust, and some of them might never change over. It’ll be a little like the grown men named James who can’t get their relatives and old friends to stop calling them Jimmy. This would be a good thing to imagine in advance and see if you can predict how annoyed you’d be by it: would it drive you crazy, or are you okay with having a subset of people who always call you Louise or Louise-I-mean-Emily-sorry-you’re-just-always-Louise-to-me? I wonder if it would help to go by Emily Louise for awhile. (In fact, I love the sound of that; it might be another possibility to consider for permanent usage.)

I don’t think it’s silly to change it at this stage of life, and in fact, age 24 seems just about perfect: you’re old enough to be fairly confident this is what you want to do, but young enough that you aren’t yet settled in for the long haul. There will still be lots of people you’ll meet who, if you switch now, will have always known you as Emily. Many people change names in similar ways at right around the same age you are now, choosing to go by Liz instead of Beth, or by Elizabeth instead of Beth, or by John instead of whatever nickname was used to tell him apart from his father John and grandfather John. And because Emily is your legal first name already, the explanation is relatively easy.

I do love the name Louise, and would be happy to spend some time telling you how much I love it (I do, I love it, I think it’s completely darling and so fun to say)—but if you don’t love it at 24, I’d say you’ve put in a good effort and can love it as your middle name instead. And I love the name Emily, too: it was high on my list for my daughter’s name.

I’m hoping commenters will have anecdotes about changing their own names in this way (from a middle name to a first name, or from one nickname to a full name or to another nickname) and how it went.

Name update! Louise writes:

Thank you so much for including my question! I was encouraged my the postive response from the commentators, so I changed my name on facebook for a bit and told my family and friends I was thinking of using Emily. Everyone (including my parents), was absolutely fine with it, which really surprised me! However, in the end I realised that though I don’t love my name I feel no connection whatsoever with Emily, and I would miss all the (nice) nicknames that I have that come from Louise. After 24 years of identifying with one name it would feel like becoming a different person to suddenly switch- Emily just doesn’t feel like ‘me’. Forms and the like will continue to be frustrating, but I’ve managed so far. So thank you to you and the lovely commentators who encouraged me to switch, but I am going to stick with Louise, and am determined to learn to like it!

Michelle writes:

I actually wrote to you several months back about girls names, but felt solid on our boy name.
Well, it’s a boy–due any day now and I JUST REALIZED that Charles Preston sounds like Charlton Heston. How did I not hear that before?
Is it the first thing you think of when you hear it?
Is it a deal breaker/bad/odd?
Is not that big a deal and I’m just having a last minute freak-out/naming cold feet?

We are set on Charles and plan to call him Charlie. It’s my father’s name and my wife’s grandfather’s name and we love it.
Preston is the name of a dear friend, but it’s not necessarily ‘after’ him, it was more the combination of an old classic name/something newer that we liked and that we love our friend, so that was an added bonus.

His second middle name will be Hughes (my maiden name–which is partly why we want another middle name, b/c since Charles is my dad’s name, without another middle it is just his full name). Last name sounds like LOWSHAY, but starts with an F.

Options as I see them now:
1. Use it. Own it, don’t care.
2. Just use Hughes and don’t have 2 middles and decide who cares that it’s my dad’s name b/c I’m naming my kid after him so I must like the guy.
3. Consider other family names: Wellesly, David, Arthur, Edward, George, Malcolm, Raymond, Robinson, Evans (I really like this but unfortunately Charles Evans Hughes was some famous politician…that feels weird to have same 3 names)
4. Choose something else just because we like it or it sounds good: Reid, Thomas, Leo, William, Samuel, Matthew, Alexander, Nathaniel, Damon, Devin, Owen(but my good friend’s kid’s name is Owen)….
5. Something else?
Clearly, you can see I’m tripping out about this–please help!

I think it’s fine. I didn’t think of a Charlton Heston issue when I read your original letter. When you pointed it out, I thought, “Yeah, I guess it does kind of sound like that” in a doubtful tone of voice. And I gave it a day to think it over, and it still hasn’t ruined the name for me: I still like it, I still think it’s a great choice.

It seems distinct in several ways: the rhythm/syllables especially, but also the different endings of Charles and Charlton, and the way CharlTON HesTON repeated a major sound but Charles Preston doesn’t. So that if someone said to me, “Oh, that sounds like Charlton Heston!,” I think I’d say, “Oh, uh huh, a little!” rather than feeling dismayed. And my guess is it isn’t the sort of thing that’s going to come up very often, unless you’re planning to routinely call him “Charles Preston”—but your first letter says you plan to call him Charlie, so almost everyone will think of him as Charlie Lowshay and won’t even know his middle names. I think it’s more likely to be the sort of thing that makes people think “Charles and Preston go particularly well together but I can’t put a finger on why!”

So I would vote for number one (“own it”), except that I don’t even think there’s anything to own here. It’s not as if your surname is Preston and you’re wondering about the name Charles, or as if you’re naming him Charlton Preston and calling him by both names; instead, maybe it will sound a little bit similar to an actor’s name to some people.

You mentioned in your first letter that the surname is your wife’s, and Hughes is yours. So if I were you, I think Hughes would feel surnamey enough in role that I would also want a middle name. If you decide Preston is ruined for you, then I’d look next at other family/friend names, and after that at just-sound-good names: Everett, maybe, or I think it would be fine to use Owen as the middle name even if it’s a friend’s child’s name.

But my own first choice is to stay the course: Charles Preston doesn’t make me think of Charlton Heston—and even when it’s pointed out to me, it doesn’t bother me. Let’s have a poll to see what everyone else thinks:

[yop_poll id=”29″]

Name update! Michelle writes:

So our little Charlie was born just a couple days after the post about naming him Charles Preston.
In the end, we didn’t end up going with that, and it wasn’t because of the way it sounded (your readers definitely assured me there was no problem with that).  I had been having doubts for months and in the last minute scramble, my wife suggested something (her first real name suggestion the entire pregnancy) that resonated.  It was a name you also suggested in your post: Everett.
I liked that it was close to Evan/Evans (family name), it was an E name (my wife and her sister are both E names) and my wife had suggested it.  The morning she went into labor we went for a walk and talked about it and knew it was right.  It turned out my doubts about Preston were more than cold feet.  It just wasn’t his name and I knew it. His name was Charles Everett.  We’re head over heels for this guy.
Thanks for the help!

Eliza writes:

We are having the toughest time figuring out a name for our second daughter. Our first daughter was easy. We were deciding between Norah and Jayne (my two favorite names) and when she got here there was no doubt in my mind that her name should be Norah. We both agreed on this… with ease… and even agreed to use Jayne (a big family name as well as my middle name) as her middle name. So there inlies our first problem, I used both of my favorite girl names on my first daughter… oops. Our last name is Bradshaw and we live in the USA. So now we have another girl on the way, in 3 weeks in fact, and the only name we WERE both in love with was Lucy, until I realized how popluar it was. I work as a nurse on a post-partum unit and there has been one too many Lucy’s born in the last few months for me to feel comfortable naming my second girl that name. Which is too bad b/c my husband and I both love it so much (but so does everyone else). Is the popularity of name something we should really be concerned about? Or does the love of a name trump popularity? We really love the nick name Lu or Lulu but my husband is opposed to just naming her Lulu even though I think its adorable, he says it sounds silly. So here is a list of some of the other names we are considering:

Lucy – was the top contender
Maggie (not Margaret) – top contender – is Maggie to juvenile sounding when she grows up? Could Margo be the name with Maggie being the official nickname?
Josie (not Josephine)
Phoebe – my husband is concerned about the spelling and how random it is.
Eve (would go by Evey)

Middle name is also a concern. Because our first daughter has a family name/my middle name as her middle name do we need to do a family name for daughter number 2? I don’t want her to feel her name is any less meaninful. The problem is I don’t love any of the family names with the first names we like. They don’t flow like Norah Jayne does to me. Ideas are Lou (not a family name), Clair (not a family name), Rebecca (I have a cousin with the name so its a stretch), Laree (family name), Lucille (family name), Gwen (family name), Lee (family name, although with all our name options it sounds like too many “ee” sounds), Catherine (fam name).

I guess I’m having some mommy guilt, like I used my two favorite names and not to mention a middle name with a lot of meaning on my first daughter and I’m not having the same luck or feelings with Girl number two’s names. Any insight or encouragement would be greatly appreciated. And just for additional feedback, do the names we’ve picked sound good with Norah? Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are getting so close to the due date. Thank you!

Unless we deliberately do otherwise for some reason (as when there is a naming tradition or some other consideration), ALL of us use our favorite name on the first child and a less-favored name on each subsequent child. The only way to avoid that is to give all your children the same name, which was perhaps George Foreman’s motivation when he gave all five of his sons the name George.

And there’s always a gamble with names when you have more than one favorite: if you DON’T use them up on the first child, maybe you’ll lose your chance to use them at all. It’s impossible to know what’s best, though in your case I’d say it was pretty clear you should go for it and get that family name in there. If you’d had only one daughter, you would have kicked yourself for using a name you liked less just to save a name for later.

And finally, once the names belong to your child, you’re bound to love them even more than when you chose them. Comparing other names to the way you feel about the name Norah Jayne now, when the name Norah Jayne has been worn for some time by one of your favorite people in the world, is not fair to all the other names in the world.

So! All of this means, I think, that there is no need for guilt (you have not done anything wrong), and that the goal is not to find a name you like as much as you liked/like the name Norah Jayne. The goal is instead to find the name you like best of all the names that remain. And we are working on a tight deadline, so let’s get on with it.

You both love the name Lucy. Once you’d decided on it, you were attuned to it: every Lucy stood out to you as if in neon lights. But the name itself is not particularly popular: it was #66 in 2012, according to the Social Security Administration—though of course it’s hard to figure out how many girls named Lucia, Lucille, Luciana are also going by Lucy. Nationally, the name Lucy was given to less than one-fifth of one percent of new baby girls. The name Nora/Norah is similar: Nora was #107 last year and Norah was #210, and together those two spellings were given to between one-fifth and one-fourth of one percent of new baby girls; but we don’t know how many girls named Eleanor are also going by Nora(h).

Only you will be able to decide whether your love of a name trumps its popularity. It’s a matter of weighing personal importance: “Would we rather choose this other name that we love less, in exchange for there being fewer girls with this name?” But it doesn’t seem to me that the popularity of the name Lucy is any more of an issue than the popularity of the name Norah. And speaking of gambles, we don’t know what names will do in the future: it would be very frustrating to choose a less-liked name for its lower popularity, and then have it later become more popular than the name Lucy.

You don’t need to do a family name for every child if you don’t want to, or if you run out of names you want to use. Some families have fewer honor names available, and it’s very typical to use those names on a first-come-first-serve basis so that earlier children are more likely to have them than later children. It doesn’t seem like it makes a name more meaningful to force a connection to someone you didn’t want to honor and whose name you don’t particularly like. The real meaning of the name can be that you loved it and wanted to give it to her.

Because your first daughter has your middle name, one option would be to give your second daughter your first name (or a variation of your first name) as her middle name.

It could also be fun to give all your daughters the middle name Jayne: some families do matching middle names like this, and I think it’s a very appealing idea. Of course, then they could complain that they didn’t get their own names. Really, it’s impossible to please these imaginary future children!

Since Lucille is a family name, you could use it as the first name with the nickname Lucy and get two birds with one stone: it gives her a family name, and the family connection can make popularity matter less. Or depending on how your family views such things, you could use Lucy and say it’s in honor of Lucille.

The name Maggie does seem like a nickname to me, but 1,296 sets of parents disagreed with me in 2012 alone. And since Nora(h) and Lucy could also both be called nickname names (though I see them as stand-alone names at this point), those names should all be compatible. For myself, I would want a more formal version—but we don’t know how your daughter will feel about it. I don’t think of Maggie as a natural nickname for Margo. It’s similar to using Ally as a nickname for Adelaide: the letters allow for it, but it’s not traditional the way Maggie for Margaret is. I also find I don’t like the way “Norah and Margo” sounds when I say it aloud, though I do like the sound of “Norah and Maggie.”

Proofreading this, the name Sadie sprang to my mind. That would be pretty: Sadie Bradshaw; Norah and Sadie.

Josie, too, seems nickname-y to me and I would want a longer form. And almost exactly the same number of parents officially disagree with me on that as disagree with me on Maggie: 1,265 new baby girls were named Josie in 2012. “Nicknaminess” of names can be quite subjective (see also: Sadie).

I would not be particularly concerned about the spelling of Phoebe. The names Chloe and Sophie and Penelope have paved the way for it, I think.

Eve is one of my favorites from your list. I think Eve Bradshaw is a gorgeous name. The name Eva was #86 in 2012, but Eve is much less common at #558.

So if I were narrowing this list, this would be my new version:

Lucy (maybe short for Lucille)
Phoebe
Eve

And here’s how I might put them together with middles (ever since someone pointed out that names that end in an -ee sound make the word “eclair” when paired with the middle name Clare/Claire/Clair, I’ve felt wary of that combination, which is too bad because Clair is very nicely coordinated with Jayne):

Lucy Eliza Bradshaw
Lucy Elizabeth Bradshaw
Lucy Jayne Bradshaw
Lucy Lee Bradshaw
Phoebe Elizabeth Bradshaw
Phoebe Jayne Bradshaw
Phoebe Lucille Bradshaw
Eve Catherine Bradshaw
Eve Elizabeth Bradshaw
Eve Lucille Bradshaw

Because you like Lucy and Lulu and Lou, I wonder if you might like other lu-sound names such as Eloise, Louisa, and Louise. Perhaps those would be a little tongue-tangling with your own name, or perhaps not.

My first choice for you is Lucy. I’m very influenced by this part from your letter: “my husband and I both love it so much.” I like Lucy Eliza. Norah Jayne and Lucy Eliza.

Name update! Eliza writes:

I don’t think I knew naming a baby could be so much fun.  Writing into your blog was so fantastic, I’m so glad I decided to do it last minute, it gave me the confidence I needed this time around.  I loved everything you took the time to analyze and write up for us and the comments and opinions people gave me, it stimulated a whole bunch of conversation with my family and friends.  I feel like it took a village to name our baby but we finally decided on a name!  Our name choosing was expedited when I went into labor a week and a half early but heck, something had to kick me into decision making mode.  The name we chose was Lucy Gwen Bradshaw.  It actually is a little bit of a twist on Tyler’s mother’s name Gwen Lucille.  It was fun to tell her she has an “almost reverse namesake”.  Now both girls carry a special family name within their name.  I also get to use the nickname Lulu which I am super excited about. My husband is very happy with the end result, he’s been rooting for Lucy the whole time, even when I panicked about how many times I had heard it in the last month.  Thank you for helping us name our baby girl and for the encouragement you and your readers gave us to just go with our gut and name her Lucy. We love the name and it seems to suit her perfectly so far.

Hope writes:

I’m about 3 1/2 weeks for my due date and we’ve pretty much nailed down a name, but I’m still apprehensive.

The name is Grace Louise. I love it, I do. In my head I think of her as Gracie. I have stopped looking for other names. But I am still worried that every time I introduce myself and her I’ll feel a tinge of (for lack of a better word) embarrassment. “Hi, I’m Hope and this is my daughter Grace.” I’ll be waiting for people to comment or assume they think it’s silly.

So, can you tell me if I’m being ridiculous? Or do you and the readers think it IS silly? Will I make us the butt of jokes? Will my teenage daughter roll her eyes that I named her something so similar to my own name? Help!

My guess is that people will definitely notice, and may very well comment on it—but that it is the sort of thing people in general LIKE. That is, my guess is that the feedback will be positive and sparkley-eyed with enjoyment, not negative and eye-rolly with scorn. The situation where you’re introducing yourselves at the same time (and only the two of you, with no other name to put between you) won’t come up very often, and on the occasions it does, you can minimize the effect by separating the introductions a bit: “Hi, I’m Hope Anderson! *shaking hands* Nice to meet you too! And this is Grace.”

If you DO get any feedback that seems negative (from your future teenaged daughter or from anyone else), you can shrug and say, “I know, and that almost made us not choose it—but Grace was just our hands-down favorite name.”

Name update! Hope writes:

Thank you so much for posting my question. I had not considered the name as a (sweet) link between myself and my daughter, and that was all I needed to hear to convince myself we were making the right choice. I so appreciate yours and the readers unbiased opinions. Grace Louise arrived October 21st (9 days late), and so far no one has commented to me on the virtue name connection.

Amanda writes:

I am 13 weeks pregnant! I have been reading your site forever and I am obsessed with baby names. OBSESSED!

First the basics. I’m Amanda and my husband is Lucas, goes by Luke. Our last name is longgggg and Dutch.. Sounds like Van Weer-in-jen or Van Weer-gen depending on which family member you talk to. We usually say Van Weer-in-jen…. nothing really goes with it, so it’s not a huge concern. We have a great variety of names we could use from both sides of our family for middle and first.

We decided years ago that a boy would be Arie after DHs grandfather. His name was Arie but when he came to Canada, he changed it to Harry. We just love Arie and love that its unique and a family name. He was also an amazing man that is missed. I know Ari is the more common spelling, but that isn’t the Dutch way and isn’t how his grandfathers name was spelled, so we want to do Arie. I’m a touch worried that it’s too feminine, and if it was totally up to me, I’d probably use the name Arlo with the nick name Arie, or name a girl Aria. BUT DH is set on Arie and I do really love it too!

Boy middle name options:
John (after my dad, two of our best friends, my grandpa, my brothers middle, husbands uncle.. lots of family significance!)
Andrew (my brothers name)
Taylor (my maiden name)
Bayne (my grans middle name, which was her moms maiden name… we kind of want this for a second boy one day!)

Girl contenders are as follows for a first name:
Ruby (DHs Grandmothers middle name) I like it, but a bit too popular.. do you think it will keep climbing?
Theo (my grandmothers first name) I absolutely LOVE this name but worry because it’s becoming more and more popular as a boys name and short form for Theodore. My grandmas full name is Theophila, but I don’t think I could give a child that big name with our last name that ALWAYS requires being spelled out and is so long. When I hear the name Theo, I always picture female, but I don’t think most do. What do you think?
Rowan – just a name we found that we like. I am worried about masculine sounding girl names paired with Arie. Someone once told me that if I had an Arie and a Theo they would assume that Theo was the boy and Arie was the girl.

Girl middle name options:
Anne (my moms name)
Jane (my middle, my grandmas middle, my aunts first)
Brooke (my sisters name.. leaning towards this!)
Taylor (my maiden name)

Now the questions:

If we know for sure if we ever have a boy he will be Arie, should we give family names to all other kids? Or is it okay for just one to have a family name?

What do you think of these names? ANY girl suggestions? Are there any Dutch names that would work well?

I’d probably use the Arie spelling, too. I would be prepared for it to routinely require clarification—just as someone would have to do for a name like Cameron or Jordan.

I would not, however, then use Theo for a girl. I think of Theo the way I think of Jacob or Sebastian: it isn’t that I’d guess the child was more likely a boy, but instead that I’d assume it without giving it any thought. Current usage in the United States supports that impression; here are the 2012 numbers from the Social Security Administration’s database:

Theo, F: –
Theo, M: 282
Theodora, F: 67
Theodora, M: –
Theodore, F: –
Theodore, M: 1,912

Which of course is not to say it couldn’t still be used for a girl (26 new baby girls were named Jacob in 2012, and 13 new baby girls were named Sebastian), but I wouldn’t do it if I had another child with a unisex name such as Arie.

I think of Thea as the female equivalent of Theo. I also saw Theona (given to just 5 new baby girls in 2012) in the SSA database; that seems like an interesting possibility.

And I do think you could name her Theophila and call her Theo: if I see Arie and Theophila together, I lose the girl/boy feeling I get if I see Arie and Theo. I like too how that would parallel your decision about Arie: in both cases you’d be using the name because it was the honoree’s actual name, without changing it for convenience.

Another option would be to use Arie for a girl, and Theo for a boy.

Another option would be to use Arie as the middle name.

I generally prefer to pair ambiguous first names with unambiguous middle names, so my favorites from your middle-name list would be Arie John and Arie Andrew.

Ruby seems to be leveling off, popularity-wise:

(screenshot from SSA.gov)

My main issue with it is that I’d prefer not to repeat the ending of Arie.

Rowan is an interesting candidate, since it’s a second unisex name. Here are the 2012 numbers:

Rowan, F: 678
Rowan, M: 1,138
Rowen, F: 97
Rowen, M: 234

We can compare those to the 2012 numbers for Arie:

Ari, F: 176
Ari, M: 631
Arie, F: 80
Arie, M: 66

Rowan and Rowen are both used more often for boys than for girls, but not at a level that lets us forget it’s unisex. Ari/Arie is more interesting, because Ari is used quite a bit more often for boys, while Arie is used slightly more often for girls; that name, too, is unisex in the U.S.

Of the girl name options, I don’t have a clear front-runner. I think I would keep looking. Would you want to consider Taylor for a first name? It’s unisex-used-more-for-girls right now:

Taylor, F: 4,825
Taylor, M: 878

I think my favorite Dutch female name is Willemina. It’s a lot with your surname, however.

Nameberry has a Dutch girl name list (I love that it has a “show all” button; it drives me nuts when a site makes me click through a dozen pages with five names per page). Lots of good possibilities, nice and simple with a longer surname: Britt, Fay, Gwen, Isa, Jade, Lara, Tess. However, none of those shout out “DUTCH!” to me: they’re names that are popular in The Netherlands right now, but not necessarily what would sound Netherlandy to us in the United States.

The Baby Name Bible has lists of Irish names, Italian names, Ancient Roman names, Russian names, French names, African names, Spanish names, and Armenian names—but no Dutch names. The Best Baby Names in the World from Around the World has no Dutch name section, either. The Baby Name Wizard has a section of Dutch names, but unfortunately combined with German names—and I’m not good at separating them out except by looking them up one by one in The Baby Name Bible (which mentions nationality). I particularly like Elsa with your surname and with Arie, but it’s German rather than Dutch. That reminds me, though, that I saw Ilsa on the Nameberry list—I accidentally skipped right over it thinking it was Isla. Ilsa Van Weer-in-jen; Arie and Ilsa. I like that very much. Perhaps you can find more lists of Dutch baby names, and see if any appeal to you.

I do think it’s absolutely fine to have only one child with a family name. It’s pleasing when it works out that all the kids have good honor names, but it reminds me of choosing groomsmen/bridesmaids: it’s pleasingly symmetrical if there happen to be the same number of each, but it’s better to give the honor to the people you really want to honor, rather than forcing it just so things match. Use honor names as long as you still have people you want to honor whose names you want to use. Plenty of people have only one honor name they want to use; it’s especially common if the honor name is for a first-born son, because that’s a familiar tradition in the United States.

Name update! Amanda writes:

Update!! He is here and is named Arie Bayne Van Weer-in-jen. We went back and forth on the middle name.. I was leaning toward Andrew with my second favourite being Bayne. My husband was leaning towards Bayne with his second favourite as John. So Bayne it was!

We’ve had some pronunciation issues with Arie, some people think it’s pronounced like “Air-eee” upon reading it, and some people have assumed he is a girl when I say his name. Both of these issues are ones we thought would happy, so we are okay with it. We are happy with his name and glad we used it and honoured both sides of the family! Picture attached of Arie who is now 7 weeks old.

PS: Funny to note: the week before Arie was born I had two co-workers get granddaughters who were named Aria and Arianna… and my dad just had one of his employees name a daughter Aria. Seem like the “Ari…” trend is picking up.

Thanks for your help,
Amanda

Ashley writes:

My name is Ashley and my husband goes by Tony, although his formal name is Mark Anthony. Our last name sounds like Thornbush but starts with a D (and is spelled with the German –sch ending).

After two failed pregnancies, we are having our first baby, a boy, due January 8th, and I’d love to hear an outside perspective on our choices. Our son’s first name will be Mark, in honor of my husband’s father who passed away six months ago. Like my husband, though, he will not go by his first name. He will be definitely be known (by us, at least – he can switch it up later in life, if he chooses) by his middle name. We’ve narrowed down the final two:

1) August – probably call him Gus as a pet name around the house, but definitely introduce him as August.

2) Osborn – this is my grandfather’s last name (my mom’s maiden), and he passed away about two months ago. We’d introduce him as Oz/Ozzy if we went with this name.

My husband really likes Osborn, and while I’m warming to it more and more, I’m not sure I can completely commit. Is Oz too off-beat? I’d consider myself a pretty quirky person but I don’t want to saddle my children with names that are a little too far off the beaten path. On the other hand, August doesn’t necessarily knock me out.

Other names we seriously considered:

Arlo (gets a little mushed together when you say it with the first name, though we realize you wouldn’t say the two together very often)

Owen (the most common name on our list, though we’d likely use the nickname Mo as a play off the two names)

Other names that we considered but didn’t get as far:

West
Sullivan
Adler
Theodore
Montgomery
Alton

As for other details, we plan on having at least one more child (two if we’re lucky!), and we definitely hadn’t come very close to deciding on a girl’s name.

Thanks for your help!!

I prefer, in general, to stick to a “one quirk per name” limit, or actually I guess it’s more like two. That is, if a child is going to go by his or her middle name exclusively, that’s one quirk. Or if a child is going to have a very unusual name with a strong association, that’s one quirk. Going by (1) the nickname of (2) a very unusual and strongly-associated (3) middle name, in a situation where the nickname adds even more to the association, seems like a lot of quirks for one name. It’s not that you can’t do it, and plenty of people do it all the time; it’s only that if you’re asking me, and you are, it exceeds my own personal limit for what I would personally want to cope with if it were my own name. But it helps in this case that we’re all already familiar with the concept of a son having to use his middle name because his first name is already being used by another family member.

A character in Buffy the Vampire Slayer first drew my attention to the appeal of the name Oz. It’s an extremely adventurous choice, strongly associated with The Wizard of Oz, but I think it could work. It helped that the character Oz was cool and cute and confident—but on the other hand, that makes me fret a bit about how well the name would work on a child who turned out less cool/confident. Still, as you’ve mentioned, he could use Mark instead.

Using Oz/Ozzy WITH OSBORN, however, brings the singer Ozzy Osbourne so vividly and immediately to mind, it’s startling. If we had more associations, it would help tremendously—but right now Ozzy Osbourne is still dominating it. And his image is so dark: the various addictions, biting the heads off doves and bats, accusations of satanism, the band name Black Sabbath.

“It’s a family name” can save many an unusual choice, however, and Ozzy Osbourne’s surprising harmlessness/affability on his recent reality show may help as well. Plus, he won’t really be “Ozzy-short-for-Osborn,” he’ll just be Ozzy or Oz; it would in fact be LESS of an association than if his first name were Osborn.

I think if it were me, though, I’d come down on the side of saving Osborn to be the middle name of a child who would go by his first name. When I think of it tucked away there, it gives me a cool/fun feeling instead of the worry that it’s too darkly cool a name for the average manager, bank teller, or teacher.

August seems like a great choice. But with so much time left, are you sure these are your two finalists? You say August doesn’t knock you out, and you’re only just “warming to” Osborn. It sounds too soon to be calling those the final two.

If you like the sound of Ozzy, Crosby might be a nice option.

Or Desmond, with the nickname Desi/Dezzie.

Or Ezra.

Or Ezekiel, with the nickname Zeke.

Or Isaac, with the nickname Ike.

If you like Mo, I wonder if you’d like Moses? Moses has a less dark and more diluted set of associations (Moses from the Bible, Grandma Moses, Moses Lake, Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin’s son, etc.). Mark Moses Thornbush, called Mo. It’s no more quirky than Mark Osborn called Oz—and less so because the associations are more positive/diluted, and because Mark and Mo both start with M.

Or you could do your M.O. idea, but with a name other than Owen. Mark Oakley. Mark Oberon. Mark Odin. Mark Orion. Mark Oscar. Mark Otto. Or of course Mark Osborn, but calling him Mo instead of Ozzy.

If you’d like to honor your grandfather, is his first name useable? or his middle name? I do like the idea of using a name from your side of the family, since the child’s first name (and also his surname?) will be from his father’s side.

Have you committed to the idea of using Mark as the first name, even though you don’t want to use the name in a daily way? Perhaps Mark could be the middle name, freeing you to consider more options for the first name. I love Arlo Mark Thornbush-with-a-D, and Arlo seems like a great choice for “quirky but not too far off the beaten path.”

Owen and Arlo make me think of:

Eamon
Hugo
Leo
Milo
Nolan
Otto
Rohan
Ronan
Roland
Tobias

Name update! Ashley writes:

I’m so excited to announce that on Tuesday, January 7th, our baby boy, Mark Osborn Dornbusch, made his entrance into the world!  Ozzie (notice we changed the spelling to the -ie ending) is definitely a handful, but we obviously love him to pieces. :-)

I want to thank everyone for their valuable feedback.  As it turns out, the pull of the double honor name was just too much to resist.  I know there was some concern that giving him a first name he wouldn’t use would be a pain, but that was always a non-negotiable in our book.  My husband has been dealing with that his whole life and has no complaints; it’s simply a tradition we already knew that we would continue.  There was also some concern about the Ozzy Osbourne connection, but after some discussion, that felt like a generational association that would fade with time.  Overall, we’ve had really great reactions from people who hear his name, much like the majority of the commenters.  Oz for the win!

Attached is a picture of our little meatball. :-)

Heather writes:

I’m hoping you can give me guidance and frank feedback regarding our thoughts on a name for our second child, due at the beginning of October 2013.

Our son, Ayrton James Walter Crepsky was born one year ago, in August. I asked my husband if he would take the lead on choosing the name because I wanted him to feel an intimate connection to our son, and since I was physically attached, this was a way for him to feel vitally responsible in our son’s earliest days. While my husband had the final word in the hospital room, there was however, endless discussion about names that we liked and ones that held special meaning to us. I think it was always the case that we wanted something unique and uncommon. Although I did like Henry, and he did like Russell. My husband seriously considered Roman. We both loved Gaius and Augustus. In the end, he went with Ayrton because of its sound and our personal connection to the name. We each have immediate family members who are F1 fans and so as kids, we knew all about the driver Ayrton Senna and had a sense of his accomplishments, philanthropy and legacy. Middle names James and Walter are after my husbands closest friend and father respectively.

Since I found out we are expecting another baby – this time a girl – I’ve been lost about a name. Nothing like with our first. Is this common?? The guilt has started and she’s not even here yet. Anyway, there are a few names we’ve considered but I don’t feel even close to the degree of certainty that I did with the list we had for Ayrton before he was born. To make things more difficult, my husband has asked me to take the lead on naming her, since he did the first one. I’m also not sure if this will be our last, or if in a few years we might try for a third.

My dilemma is that the names suggested by my husband often sound just too “girly” (whatever that means) for my taste. He likes Elia, after his grandmother. Or Elle or Elsa. I suggested Esmeralda, which could be shortened to Esme. The name has historical significance in Chile, where his mother is from. But still quite a girly name.

I’m also worried about naming her something too ordinary sounding next to Ayrton. I like Marie. It sounds simple yet elegant to me. I also like Rafael for a girl, it incorporates the Spanish background. I also seem to like names with a “V”: Vera, Verona, Vespa.

In all honesty, my absolute favourite name is Vineyard. I adore the way it looks, sounds and conjures vivid imagery. But when I read on your blog a few comments about names sounding “made-up”, I was moved to write to you and hear your feedback on this particular “made-up” name. I mentioned the name awhile back to my husband to see what he thought and he has been surprisingly encouraging about it. Just last week he said how much it’s growing on him. But whomever I’ve tested the name out on (friends, family) have cringed and looked at me like I’ve become some kind of crazy celeb-wannabe or cult-leader. Is it too different?

Lastly, for middle names I think we would have to chose our mothers names: Cecilia and Laurie. I would prefer just to go with Cecilia, but I really don’t want to be unfair to the moms and since Ayrton has two names I’m supposing she should too.

Thanks in advance for reading this note. I would be grateful to hear back from you. I appreciate your honesty and fresh view on naming.

Vineyard is a very pretty-looking word. If I say the sounds aloud, considering them for a name, I hear the Vin from Vincent or Lavinia or Devin or Calvin, followed by the -rd of Howard, Leonard, Edward, Richard, etc. So there are name-like elements, though the -yerd sound doesn’t appeal to my ear: it sounds a little dated to me, as in Howard and Leonard.

As a name, I think Vineyard looks feminine, though I’d have a hard time saying why. I suppose in part because plant-related names are more often girl names—but Vineyard would be more place-name than plant-name. More like Meadow, or Garden, or Field. But only Meadow seems clearly feminine to me from that list: Garden feels unisex to me and Field seems masculine, so I’m still not sure. Vinnie makes a cute nickname and adds even more “nameishness” to Vineyard.

Certainly it qualifies as “different,” in the sense that it is not used as a name in the United States. However, I think of “made-up” as referring more to combinations of popular sounds, or changes to familiar names: Maddilee, for example, would feel “made-up” to me. Vineyard falls instead into the Surprising Noun Name category; the famous examples are Apple and Pilot, but I think Garden and Field from my previous paragraph are more comparable: I would feel differently about encountering a Garden on a class list than I’d feel about encountering an Apple.

One thing that would be an issue for me is that I associate vineyards strongly with wine. Presumably vineyards also grow the grapes I give the kids for lunch, and of course wine can bring to mind sacred ceremonies and classy dinners, and vineyards also make me think of beautiful sunny/hilly fields with lovely vines growing on whatever those vine-growing structures are called—but the association for me is still predominantly wine. Names such as Brandy/Brandi and Chardonnay demonstrate that alcohol is not a taboo association for children’s names (Vineyard, because it is associated with alcohol production rather than with alcohol itself, is a step removed from those particular examples), but I am not inclined toward it myself.

Garden might be another possibility to consider. Or Ivy? Haven? Olive? River? Vienna? Avalon? Waverly? Verity? Silver? Roma? Or I know a girl named Emerald.

If you use your mothers’ names as middle names, would this mean your father would be the only grandparent unhonored? This is likely something you’ve already thought about: perhaps he is not a suitable candidate for honoring, or perhaps another grandchild is already named after him, or perhaps there is some other reason. But if not, I’d suggest choosing one mother’s name (your mother’s, since your son is named for your husband’s father) and one good friend’s name (again, one of your friends, since your son is named for your husband’s friend)—or perhaps a sister’s name, or your own middle name, or another female relative from your side. Or, if you decide against Vineyard as a first name, it might work beautifully as a middle name.

Let’s now see what everyone else thinks of Vineyard as a name:

[yop_poll id=”26″]

Name update! Heather writes:

Thank you so much for posting my baby naming question in August, and for offering such thoughtful feedback. Thank you as well to your readers who posted their thoughts on the name, Vineyard.
After reading so many responses that were firmly against the name, I decided quite quickly that as much as I liked the name Vineyard, I no longer felt comfortable using it because I just might be setting her up for a lifetime of uncomfortable or even negative reactions to her name.
Once I decided that Vineyard was out, it became much clearer to me what were the most important factors in choosing her name. I wanted a Spanish/Chilean element to honour my husbands mothers side. I also wanted to honour my mother. And again, thank you for helping me to realize how important it is to honour my fathers side of the family in some way (since my son has his paternal grandfathers name in the middle spot).
And so, on October 11th, we welcomed Elia Mary Laurette Crepsky to our family. Elia (pronounced Ell-ee-ah) is the name of her great grandmother from Chile; Mary is the name of my fathers mother; and Laurette is my mothers name. Our family members were all surprised and visibly quite moved by the name. My husband adores the name Elia and I feel like it is a perfect fit.

A. writes:

I wrote to you in 2010 asking for your help naming my son (Baby Boy: Oliver, Hazen, Luca?) and I seem to be finding myself in need of your advice again! We are now expecting baby # 2 (a girl) at the beginning of October. We have just one name for a first name in mind (it was also on our list for our son) but I’m worried that we are going to cause our daughter issues in the future. My husband is dead set on it and I’m about 95% there – the name is Luca, although we’ve been discussing spelling it with two c’s, Lucca, as a nod to the town in Italy my husband’s family is from. We had considered this name for our son but at the time couldn’t commit because I thought people might perceive it as too feminine. NOW I’m worried about giving a stereotypically male name to my daughter (what is my problem!?) and causing her issues if she ever travels to or lives in Europe, specifically Italy, where it’s strictly a male name (I could be reaching here with my anxiety but a lot of my family lives in Germany). We had also considered Lucia pronounced Loo-sha but we are kind of over it now.

Additionally, we are having a hard time deciding on the spelling. We’ve been leaning towards Lucca but the more I look at it the more I’m afraid people will pronounce it “Luck-ah”. On the other hand, Luca just looks so much more masculine to me. I think the double c really softens the look of it.

Last but not least we need middle name help. Some names we are considering:

Marie – this is my middle name as well as my mom’s and both grandmothers. I think it flows nicely with Lucca but my husband doesn’t like it. He thinks it’s just a place filler when you can’t come up with anything better and it’s overused.

Vienne – I just heard this name for the first time and thought it was beautiful. However, two place names might be a bit much.

Vivienne- similar to Vienne but well known and I think it’s pretty. Has a nice tie in to my first name which also ends in ienne.

Juliette

Mattea – I’ve loved this name since I was pregnant with my son and still do. But is it too much? I fear with our really Italian last name it might be too sing songy and ethnic sounding.

To sum up my long email:
– are we doing our daughter a disservice by giving her a boy’s name? I know a lot of girls are getting boy names these days but some people I’ve run the name by have been adamant that it would be like naming a girl Tim.
– should it be spelled with one or two c’s? How would you pronounce Lucca?
– thoughts on a middle name or new suggestions? I feel like we need something really feminine to balance the male first name.

There are no other names that have that spark for us but I need to know this wouldn’t be a mistake. Thanks for your help again!

I would strongly advise against spelling the name Lucca: it absolutely looks like it would be pronounced LUCK-uh (as in buccaneer and yucca), or maybe LOO-chuh (as in Gucci, Puccini, cappuccino). Would Luka feel more feminine to you?

Luca is indeed a male Italian name (and with an Italian surname it would read even more clearly male)—and yet one of my usual hesitations about the name is that in U.S. English it looks and sounds more feminine. The recently popularity of the name Lucy for girls increases this effect, as does the common practice of making a male name into a female name by adding an -a (Paul/Paula, Carl/Carla, Eric/Erica, Michael/Michaela, Philip/Philippa).

And yet, I find it gives me an unpleasant feeling to imagine using it for a girl. I think it’s because it seems like a mistake rather than like a deliberate boy-name-for-a-girl. That is, if you named your daughter Noah, I would know that you knew Noah was a name used mostly for boys, and that you were using it because of or in spite of this. But if you named your daughter Luca, I would think, “Oh, dear—are they doing this on purpose, or did they hear the name somewhere and not realize it’s a male name in Italy?” Being used for boys in Italy doesn’t mean it can’t be used for girls in the U.S., of course, and many names cross gender lines when they cross international borders—but it’s the sort of thing I’d want to take into account ahead of time. And in this case, Luca is used more for boys in the United States, too: in 2012 there were 1600 new baby boys named Luca, 222 new baby boys named Lucca, and 370 new baby boys named Luka.

But you wouldn’t be at all alone in using the name for a girl: 64 baby girls were given the name in the U.S. in 2012, and another 40 were named Lucca, and another 20 were named Luka. None were named Tim (though 5 were named Timothy)—so it’s definitely not equivalent.

Still, I wouldn’t, especially with an Italian surname. Perhaps it would make a good middle name?

You mentioned that you’ve considered Lucia; here are a few other options:

Bianca
Calista
Louisa
Lucy
Luna
Lyric
Tallulah
Veronica

Luna seems like a particularly good option: very similar in sound to Luca, and similarly exotic, but used only for girls in the United States.

My own favorite would be Bianca: beautiful, Italian, underused. Oliver and Bianca is such a pleasing combination, it makes me feel like getting PUSHY.

If you do use Luca, I like your idea of going with a strictly-used-for-girls middle name. I like Luca Marie for the family tie-in, but it sounds like your husband isn’t going to bend on that. From the rest of the list, my favorite is Luca Vivienne—but because your son has a middle name of significance, I think I’d rather look for a significant middle name for your daughter, too. Are there any women in your family you’d like to honor?

I like Mattea even better as a first name option. It’s about as uncommon in the U.S. as Luca (47 new baby girls named Mattea in 2012, and another 38 named Mataya, and another 21 named Matea)—but traditionally used for girls, and without thousands of boys sharing the name.

And there are so many other very pretty Italian names for girls. If I were you, I’m not sure I could resist them: Gianna! Claudia! Francesca! Elena! Marilena! (Bianca!)

I also love Juliette as a first name. Oliver and Juliette is great.

Name update! A. writes:

I wanted to close the loop on what we ended up naming our daughter. It seems my idea of using Lucca for a girl really stirred things up!  I appreciated all the feedback (good and bad) -it gave my husband and me lots to think about. Our beautiful daughter was born October 13th and can you believe she went unnamed for 8 days!  When all was said and done, our list at the hospital came down to Lucca for my husband and Mattea or Juliette for me. My husband didn’t want to use Mattea but by day 7 was willing to compromise (I didn’t feel right about doing that though knowing he would need time to come around to it). Juliette was vetoed because we stupidly forgot to consider that our daughter has a two year old cousin named Julian. AND…what everyone is waiting to know…in the end I just could not do it. I felt so unsettled about the idea of naming her Lucca.  It didn’t help that my husband’s family had a surprisingly extremely negative reaction to even the idea of naming her Lucca when we told them what we were considering. With the pressure to make a decision weighing heavily on us we even resorted to naming her Lucia for a day as a compromise. We told some people it was her name and then changed our minds the very next day.

I think I struggled to make a decision because when I saw her precious dainty face after being born I knew my baby needed something truly feminine and beautiful to fit her. Our list was not cutting it and Lucca was definitively out. There was one name that my husband kept mentioning throughout my pregnancy but it was always on the back burner for me. I wasn’t sure it was my style, perhaps almost too girly, and I worried it was too popular despite only ever meeting one person with the name. However with our nameless baby eating away at us we finally began to take a look at some other names and this one popped back up. In the end this name suddenly just clicked and I can’t believe it took me 8 days to know this was “the one”. It’s gorgeous and feminine just like her.  I get a thrill hearing her name and seeing it written!

Our daughter is Leila Vienne! (Pronounced lay-lah in case there’s any confusion.). Funnily enough the name is so fitting as one of its meanings is dark haired beauty. I’d say our Leila is just that. Thanks for everyone’s help!

C. writes:

I’m wondering if you can help us name our precious wee baby girl. We
have three kids (Thomas Peter, Lila Jean, and Audrey Claire) and
despite endless searching and questioning after we named them, they are
SO their names! All three have honour names as middles. Our last name
starts with a R and sounds like “Rice”.

We really feel we need to find the perfect name for our next little
girl. It has been a rough pregnancy with lots of complications and
there’s a chance she might not make it to term and/or need heart
surgery as soon as she’s born. All the more reason to find the perfect
name now as whenever she is born she will be baptized right away.

I want to avoid an uber common name and our preference is names that
are well established and somewhat traditional. Our style is
vintage/classic/timeless, something easy to say and spell and
unmistakably feminine.

Our short list for our previous girls was:
– Jane (too “plain” or understated? It feels that way…)
– Georgia (husband not keen)
– Elizabeth (my husbands fav but is super popular in our area)
– Maeve
– Calla (unsure if we can have both a Lila and a Calla)
– Abigail (popularity held us back)

…and that’s where we’re stuck…

Is there a name out there we’re missing?

The name Vivian keeps coming to mind but I’m not sure why. Not a name
we’d ever discussed. Husband is lukewarm on it but I find myself
referring to her as Vivian already. Is this name destined to become
too popular?

Other names I’ve always liked are Adeline, Eloise, Nora, Cora, Natalie, Molly…

I tried doing the “lets each make a list and compare notes for
similarities” exercise with my husband and he’s so stuck in the 80’s.
I believe his list included Danielle, Heather, Lindsay, etc. He is
pretty open to most names I suggest, just doesn’t want common or “made
up” sounding.

I just want so badly to find a name we LOVE as a way to convince
myself everything will be ok with this little one…as silly as that
might seem!

Please help us?

The Oxford Dictionary of First Names, to which I generally defer, says Vivian is “from an Old French form of the Latin name Vivianus (probably a derivative of vivus ‘alive’).” Because of “Viva la revolucion,” “Viva la vida loca,” and other similar phrases, the possible viv/life connection stands out to me immediately. This meaning could be heartening and celebratory, if all goes well.

Is Vivian destined to become too popular? Hard to say—and it depends on what you mean by too popular. Here’s what the last ten years have been like:

(screen shot from SSA.gov)

That doesn’t look too scary to me. The spelling Vivienne has had a more startling rise: not even in the Top 1000, and then suddenly appearing at #531 in 2009. Here’s how things have gone since then:

(screen shot from SSA.gov)

Again, that’s not too scary to me. If it had gone #500, #300, #100, #27, that would be another story. Instead, it’s made reasonable jumps as the sounds of the name have come into fashion.

I do expect the name to continue its rise, especially as parents who love the name Evelyn look for less common alternatives. But with Lila and Audrey, I think the popularity of Vivian is perfectly placed: not too common, not too uncommon.

I don’t find the name Jane too plain at all. We did a post recently on that; if you want encouragement to use Jane, I suggest reading the enthusiastic comments. I love the sound of Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and Jane.

If Jane still feels too plain, I wonder if you would like June? Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and June.

If your husband likes Elizabeth but you find it too common in your area, I’d normally suggest Eliza—but in this case, that seems too close to Lila. In which case, I like Eloise from your list, if your husband could be brought around to it by how similar some of the sounds are to Elizabeth. Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and Eloise.

The name Nadia means “hope,” and I think it works well with the sibling names. Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and Nadia.

The name Valerie means “healthy, strong.” Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and Valerie. I am a little uncertain about the repeating R sound of Valerie Rice, but I think it’s fine.

The name Felicity means “happy and lucky,” and I think it may have the unusual/vintage sound you’re looking for. Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and Felicity.

Or Cecily would be pretty: Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and Cecily.

If you don’t mind the similarity to another daughter’s middle name (I don’t mind such things myself, but I know many people prefer to avoid it), Clara is similar to Cora and Calla. Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and Clara. As with Valerie, the -ra/Rice makes me hesitate, but I don’t think it would make me cross it off the list.

[Edited to add: After I wrote this and posted it, I was doing a final proof-read and the name Eve came to my mind. Eve Rice; Thomas, Lila, Audrey, and Eve.]

Name update! C. writes:

Just wanted to thank you and your readers for all the name feedback for our 4th baby. She arrived 7 weeks early and has already sailed through her first major surgery with flying colours. She truly is a little miracle. We had shelved any name discussions recently but top contenders were Jane and Vivian. A few days before she was born I suggested a name to my husband and surprisingly we instantly agreed. When she was born unexpectedly and we saw her, there was no doubt that was her name….introducing Eleanor Anne! We think she’s pretty awesome and her name flows so well with the other kids – Thomas, Lila, Audrey & Eleanor….family complete!