Rachel writes:

I so appreciated the advice you and your readers gave me, regarding an honor name issue my husband and I had, when naming our first son (Miles Joseph). We are expecting our second child, a girl, this August, and again, are stuck on a middle name.

In fact, we aren’t convinced we have a final choice for a first name, but are pretty sure.

My husband and I both like the name Claire. I’ve liked the name for years, and even though I love searching for new names, I think it’s still my favorite. I like how Claire and Miles sound together. Our last name is Trude1le. We may want another child in the future.

We’re stuck on a middle name. Marie is my middle name, the middle name of both of my grandmothers, and the first name of one of my sister-in-laws. I like that it would honor my side (with our son, we honored my husband’s by using his middle name). But I see a few possible issues with it:
Claire Marie is the flip of the name of a magazine. I don’t know how strong this association would be for others (it’s not huge for me, but I am aware of it). Visually, does it make you think of the magazine? I almost notice it less when I say both names aloud. Is a magazine title a negative association?
I still have a desire to use a name that somehow honors my father, who passed away. His name was Eric, and we considered using his name as a middle name for our first child, but ended up sticking with a family tradition on my husband’s side (the issue I wrote to you about last time). Back then, I thought we could always use Erica for a middle name if our next child was a girl. Now, I’m not sure I like Claire Erica, or even Erica at all for a middle name. I do, however, love the name of my grandmother (my father’s mother, who also passed away), Maxine. Claire Maxine is a little more unique than Claire Marie and I would love to honor this grandmother, whom I was also very close to, growing up.

The problem with this is that my other grandmother is still alive, and I worry a little bit about hurting her feelings by using my other grandmother’s first name, instead of the middle name that honors them both. She would never say she was hurt, but it feels a little silly to honor one, when we could honor both.
I’d love to know your thoughts! Thank you so much for your advice!

Claire Marie doesn’t make me think of Marie Claire magazine, but it’s the sort of thing I would be glad to have thought of beforehand so I could make sure it didn’t bother me. It seems like a bigger issue if you plan to call her by both names than if she will be known as Claire and only a few people will know her middle name. The magazine association doesn’t seem negative to me in any case.

I also love Claire Maxine. And this is where you have run into one of the big issues with honor names: people who AREN’T honored. My own opinion is that if you prefer the name Maxine, and if you were closer to that grandmother, that you should go right ahead and use it. Reasonable people understand the idea that only a certain number of honor names can be used. Since you want to honor your other grandmother and you describe her as someone who wouldn’t say anything about it, I suspect she is a reasonable person; if you spin the name choice as one that honors your father, as well one that honors a relative who will never get to meet this baby, I think it is unlikely that your other grandmother will be hurt. And of course she has no way of knowing if perhaps you plan to use HER first name for the NEXT baby; she also wouldn’t know that you chose the name Maxine OVER the name Marie. It helps too that Maxine was a first name in your family, while Marie is a middle.

On the other hand, Marie is also your middle name, which gives me a happy mother/daughter feeling about the name. So really I think both middle names are good choices, and that you could go with either one. I have a slight preference for Maxine, for these reasons:

1. It’s less familiar as a middle name
2. It’s a first name in your family, which feels like a higher honor
3. The concern about Claire Marie reminding people of the magazine
4. I prefer the sound of it
5. I prefer the look of it (Claire Marie repeats four of the same letters)

But I like Marie for these reasons:

1. It has a happy “tying in with the girls in our family” feeling to it
2. It honors more people at once (though this then dilutes the honor somewhat)
3. I don’t think the magazine association is a problem

Let’s have a vote to see what everyone else prefers!

[yop_poll id=”54″]

Name update!

Hi Swistle,

Thank you so much for your help with baby number two’s middle name.  I loved reading your thoughts, as well as your readers’ comments.

We decided to use “Marie” for many reasons, but I especially like the parallel between our son’s and daughter’s middle names (our son shares my husband’s, our daughter shares mine).

Claire Marie was born on August 19th at 8:33 pm.

Emm@ writes:

I have a name question that is only partially about baby names at the moment, but I was hoping you could help me out – it will impact hypothetical future children.

My name is Emm@ V1ctory, and I have recently become engaged to J0nath0n W@rren-Wh1te. His parents each kept their surnames and hyphenated his. He has no middle name; mine is Ann.

My question is, when we do marry what should our names be, and what surname should we plan on for any future children?

I love my surname, and he likes it as well. He would have no problem if I kept my name (his mum did, after all).
I am not in love with his surname, but I think I would like to feel like we were connected in a naming way – I also feel like I would feel left out if he and the imaginary children shared a name that I didn’t. Perhaps V1ctory could be become both of our middle names, and the kids could either be V W-W or just W-W.
Also my initials would be EW-W – not ideal but also probably not a dealbreaker.

I’d love to hear your take on what all the options are, and what you’d suggest as the best choice.

Thank you!

One reason there are so many ways to choose a family surname is that the symbolism means different things to different people. Perhaps one woman feels as if giving up her birth surname symbolizes giving up her whole family and being absorbed into her spouse’s family, while the next woman finds it romantic to take her spouse’s surname. Perhaps one man worries that other people will think the children aren’t really his if they don’t share his surname, while the next man is thinking he really prefers the sound of his spouse’s surname and isn’t bothered at all by the difference. One couple might want to make a symbolic statement by choosing to go against tradition; another couple might want to emphasize tradition.

I struggled with this a lot when I was engaged to Paul. I didn’t like the idea of taking his name; to me it did feel like giving up my family and prioritizing his, and I didn’t like that all my children would then “belong” to his family rather than to mine. (I feel like I’m “a MyDad’sSurname” rather than “a MyMom’sSurname,” even though I know I’m just as much a part of one family as I am of the other.)

But I also didn’t like the idea of bucking tradition: I liked it in theory, and for other people, but I didn’t want any of the options in that category for myself. I don’t like having to explain things, and I didn’t like the idea of people assuming, for example, that my birth surname was my married name. We considered coming up with a new surname, but I didn’t like the feeling of THAT, either: I imagined people saying, “Oh, that’s an interesting surname, what country is that from?”/”Oh, are you related to…?” and me saying, “Um. We made it up.” I didn’t want to hyphenate, because it was bulky and seemed like a one-generation fix. I didn’t want to keep my own name and then have one of us have a different surname than our children. Paul was willing to take my surname, but even though that SHOULDN’T insult anyone (no one in the woman’s family is insulted if she takes her husband’s surname), we knew in his family dynamic it would be perceived as a huge symbolic slap; plus, I was back to not wanting people to misinterpret the family tree. I didn’t want to do an option such as giving the girls my surname and the boys his surname. I felt really stuck: NOTHING seemed right.

Eventually what I did was keep my own surname as a second middle name, take Paul’s surname as my surname, and do the same format for all the kids’ names: they have my surname as their second middle name, and Paul’s surname as the surname. It is not a highly satisfactory solution: clear priority is still given to the man’s family, and it’s a one-generation fix. But it was the solution I disliked least of all the options. When there are several preferences that contradict each other, eventually one set of preference has to be chosen above the others.

That’s the long way to say that I don’t know what you should do in your own case, because so many individual factors and personal preferences need to be considered. What are your feelings about the various symbolisms of surnames, and what are your fiance’s feelings? Which options are you both willing to consider? When you look at the consequences of each choice (having a different surname from your children, for example, or losing the family history of the surname, or causing family-tree confusion), which of those bother you more and which bother you less?

In the end, you may find yourself in the same situation as I was: ALL the options were wrong, and I finally had to pick one that felt the least wrong to me. I was fortunate that Paul was flexible about the various options: I think if he’d been stubborn about following tradition, it would have been harder for me to make that choice. It was hard enough as it was, and left me feeling resentful about patriarchal traditions without feeling like there was a better solution for my particular set of preferences.

In your case, you have some very nice things to work with. For one thing, you know that whatever you choose is not going to be perceived as a slap in the face to his family, since his mom kept her own name and his parents hyphenated their child’s name. For another thing, your husband is accustomed to a hyphenated name. For a third thing, because he has two surnames and you have one, there is some room to play around with combinations.

If you’re willing to hyphenate, I might suggest a new hyphenated name, with your surname and one of his surnames. The two of you could be:

Emm@ and J0nath0n V1ctory-W@rren
Emm@ and J0nath0n V1ctory-Wh1te
Emm@ and J0nath0n W@rren-V1ctory
Emm@ and J0nath0n Wh1te-V1ctory

If I were looking at that list for myself, I’d eliminate Wh1te-V1ctory because that selection/order seems to have its own symbolism. I also might eliminate W@rren-V1ctory for sounding like “war and v1ctory”—unless that were my favorite choice symbolically and I were willing to patiently endure the recurring “Oh, heh, that sounds like war and v1ctory!” (which I might very well be, and it makes the name easier to remember). If it were down to V1ctory-W@rren or V1ctory-Wh1te, I’d be influenced by which surname belonged to which of my fiancé’s parents (I’d be more inclined to carry on his mother’s name, since I’m annoyed that it’s often the mother’s name that gets dropped in the next generation of hyphenated names), but also by how he and I each felt about each of my fiancé’s parents (if, for example, one of them had been a poor parent to him, or if I found one of them very difficult to get along with).

Then you could give that same hyphenated surname to all of your own children, and your whole household would share the same surname.

Another option is for you to each keep your own surnames, and use one of those new hyphenated options for your children: you’d be Emm@ V1ctory, he’d be J0nath0n W@rren-Wh1te, and your children could be FirstName V1ctory-W@rren, or FirstName V1ctory-Wh1te. This strikes me as the most confusing of the options.

Another option is the one you suggest, where both of you take your surname as a middle name, and then both use his hyphenated surname. This pleases me less, similar to my dissatisfaction with my own solution: it so clearly prioritizes his names. I think it feels even more that way to me in this case, since you’d both be taking TWO of his surnames, and he has no middle name to sacrifice: you’d be giving up so much, and he’d be giving up almost nothing. But I like it better than the option where you give up your surname completely and he doesn’t change his name in any way.

To me, the reassuring thing is that in the long run it doesn’t seem to matter very much. I still get little flashes of resentment about my surname, but I don’t REALLY care very much, and there’s no solution I wish I’d chosen instead. I’ve adjusted to Paul’s surname, while still feeling satisfaction when I see my birth surname in my name and in my children’s names. I know of other families who made different choices, and the minor hassle of the parents having different surnames than their children, or the spouses having different surnames than each other, or of the family using a surname not previously used in their family trees, doesn’t seem to have greatly impacted their lives: so many people go different routes, I think society has adjusted to it. The two of you can do what you like best out of the options available to you from your own particular circumstances.

Name update!

Hi Swistle,

Thank you so much for answering my question on choosing surnames.

We were married last Saturday and were introduced as Mrs Emm@ V1ctory and Mr J0nath0n W@rren-Wh1te. The imaginary future kid will be a V1ctory-Wh1te so another generation can deal with hyphenation!

Thank you to your and readers for helping out. There are lots of options available and I think for my generation (early 30s) people do not necessarily expect a name change anymore. The general attitude in the comments seemed to be ‘do what’s right for you’ which was really good advice!

Thanks again,
Emm@

Update to the name update:

The hypothetical future kid became a real live baby this year – and was given my surname, at my husband’s suggestion!

E. writes:

We are expecting our sixth child in June. Our last name is one syllable and begins with “S”, a simple English noun name that rhymes with “Seer”. We don’t know the baby’s sex, but if the baby is a boy, we will most likely name him Peter. We don’t have too many boy names that we like, so we don’t really need help with those.

But girl names are a different story… We have tons of girl names that we like, which is good because we currently have one boy and four girls. In age order, they are:

Theodore
Bernadette
Adelaide
Teresa
Veronica

For this baby we were initially juggling about 20 girls names, but now we have it down to six:

Agnes
Irene
Louise
Phoebe
Regina
Rosemary

My husband and I really like all six of these names. The kids are okay with all of them, but their favorite is pretty clearly Phoebe.

Our dilemma is that we can’t get past the drawbacks of each of them, so we are continuously debating them and are finding it impossible to narrow the list down any further. (Granted, Peter has its very real drawbacks too, but we nonetheless can’t come up with another boy name that we like as much.)

Will the “s” in Agnes run together with the “S” of our last name? Is the name too closely associated with “Despicable Me” right now? (Our kids think that it is.)

Hurricane Irene hit our area really badly (it knocked down a huge tree in our own yard and our neighborhood was without power for four days, there was extensive damage all over the place)… We love the name, but haven’t been able to get past that association… Do you think it is still closely associated with the hurricane for most other people too?

Does the “s” in Louise present a similar problem to the one in Agnes? Or is it kind of more of a “z” sound? Does it matter? Is it a poor choice with an “S” last name? Will a Louise be very teased? Geez Louise, Please Louise, Loo (as in toilet), Wheezy, things like that?

Is Phoebe too difficult to spell? When I think about it, many names are not phonetic — take for example the perennially popular Michael: the only reason we know how to spell it is that we have learned at some point, because it certainly isn’t spelled like it is pronounced — but still, will a Phoebe constantly deal with spelling and pronunciation issues? Or is it common enough that most people know how to spell it? Our kids think the name is a perfect fit with theirs, but is it a little off?

In the comments on all of the name sites, people constantly caution against Regina because of the “Canadian” pronunciation… What do you think? Is a Regina doomed to be teased for this reason in middle school health class, if not sooner? Some people claim that they think of the female organ every time they see the name.

And we don’t mind the herb association with Rosemary, we think it is nice… But we saw in the news that they are doing a mini-series remake of “Rosemary’s Baby” right now :( So will that very negative association be at the forefront of everyone’s mind if we name a baby “Rosemary” in a few weeks? I had been hopeful that most people wouldn’t even be aware of the movie from the 60s; my heart kind of sank when I first saw a news announcement about the remake.

There is more to say, but this is very long already so I will stop here… Thanks so much for any help you can give us!! We don’t mind going to the hospital with a couple of names still in the running, but right now we are feeling very conflicted, and we will appreciate any advice that we get.

(Oh, and middle names are not an issue because the kids all have the same middle name… My husband took my last name when we married, so the kids all have his “maiden” name as a middle :) It’s one syllable and starts with F. And also, our born kids all have nicknames that are used by the family, but the nicknames each developed over the course of their babyhoods, and we aren’t worried about the new baby’s nickname “fitting in” or anything like that.)

When choosing my own babies’ names, I found it comforting to notice that every name had its own set of upsides and downsides. There wasn’t a single name that had NO downsides: if it wasn’t too popular, perhaps it was a little too unusual; if it was easy to pronounce, perhaps it had several common spellings; or perhaps there was an association with a TV show or a biblical character, or perhaps it was hard to spell, or perhaps it combined with our surname in a non-ideal way, or perhaps we didn’t like one of the nicknames. But they ALL had SOMETHING.

It’s good to look at the downsides ahead of time, because they’re part of the package deal of each name. I feel sympathy for parents who choose a name without realizing how popular it is, or without realizing what a hard time people will have with the pronunciation, or without knowing about a strong association: I think it’s a lot harder to adjust to a downside when it’s unexpected.

Now that you’ve found the downsides in the names on your list, I think the next step is to look at the upsides. Which names make your heart leap up? Which names make your heart clench if you imagine not getting to use them? Are there names you find yourself looking for reasons to use? Picture a baby in your arms, and try each name; are there names that give you a larger rush of happiness? If you’ve narrowed twenty names down to six, it may be that you already feel equally positive toward all six. At that point, I’d probably start in on an actual list of upsides for each name (“Easy to spell,” “Love the sound,” “Reminds me of my aunt,” “Love it with the sibling names,” etc.), to see which lists were longer (though adjusted for weight: “My heart leaps up every time I think of it” weighs more than “Easy to spell”).

If you love all six names the same and can’t narrow it down any further, it appeals to me tremendously to imagine letting the kids choose the name. If the kids’ vote were divided, or if they loved a name that didn’t make your finalist list, I wouldn’t be as strongly in favor of it; but since they ALL love Phoebe best, I think it would be great fun to say “Okay!” I do think spelling will be one of the issues with the name, but I don’t think it will be a big issue: many of us have to spell our names.

If you want my personal input on the various downsides:

1. I don’t think it’s a large problem if the ending of a first name runs into the beginning of the surname, unless it results in unfortunate/confusing blends. The classic example is Ben Dover, which turns into Bend Over. Or sometimes the combination makes the first name sound like a different first name: Alec Samuel sounds like Alex Samuel, for example. With situations like Agnes Seer, where there’s just a little mushing of the S sounds but no resulting confusion, I think everyone just gets accustomed to putting a tiny pause between the first name and the last name.

2. I’m not sure if Agnes is too associated with Despicable Me or not, but it’s nice that it’s a positive association. I’ve seen the movie a few times and didn’t think of it, but I’d weigh a child’s opinion much more heavily than my own: the associations of peers will have more impact on the child’s life.

3. If you haven’t been able to get over the Hurricane Irene association, I think it’s a fair bet that others feel the same about it—especially if you’re living among the people most affected.

4. I think people will play with the rhymey possibilities of a name, but that the rhymes for Louise are non-upsetting. Rhymes such as Cooper/pooper and Lexi/sexy make me hesitate, but rhymes such as Please Louise and Anna Banana do not. The Lou/loo association doesn’t seem likely to be a big issue in the United States: perhaps a few of her peers will be familiar with that slang, but it isn’t widely used here. “John” is a slang term for toilet in the U.S., but even that isn’t something I hear much.

5. I’ve heard of the Regina issue often enough that now I think of it every time I see the name. It’s a pity.

6. I’m not sure what the effect of Rosemary’s Baby will be on the name Rosemary. It helps, I think, that Rosemary is not herself a negative character, and that small children presumably won’t be allowed to watch it. I think of the herb before I think of the book/film.

As I go through these, Louise and Phoebe seem to have the fewest issues. My own choice would be Phoebe because it’s the favorite of your other children and has the fewest issues of all. Let’s have a poll to see what everyone else thinks would be best:

[yop_poll id=”53″]

Name update!

Hello Swistle!

This is the mom of “Baby Seer” writing to let you know that I had the baby on June 29, and it was a girl, and we did name her Phoebe :) Many thanks to all of you!

The kids are all delighted with the name choice, plus they have really embraced the team concept and do feel that we named her as a team. They seem so far — if they use a nickname at all — to call her “Bee” sometimes because they also like to say “Honey Bee” and “Funny Bee” (and have even made up a little song along those lines :).

Thanks again!
Emily

N. writes:

Help! My baby boy is 1 month old and we still have no name. We didn’t fully settle on a name before he was born, and now that he is here it feels even harder! Today is his one month birthday, and all we call him is baby boy. The problem is now that he is here, we need to find a name that fits him. He has 2 older sisters Eloise who is 3 and Annetta, whom we call Annie 1.5 years. His middle name will be Dennis (after his late grandfather) and Cao (my mom’s maiden name, pronounced Cow) and his last name will be Flegel. So “name” Dennis Cao Flegel. Conditions for his name.

Have more then one syllable that we can hopefully give him a nickname for when he is young. Eloise was called Lulu when she was a baby.

Either have his nickname or name be simple enough that my parents can pronounce, they are Chinese, and English is their second language.

Be not very popular.

Be an actual name.

His personality, he’s pretty mellow, never cries, sleeps well and tolerates the “love” his sisters bestows on him.

Help? Is that anything out there?

We originally liked Clarke, but it was too short, and now he doesn’t suit a Clarke. We considered Gabriel, but I think it might be too feminine. We also considered Charleston. And now we are considering Theodore-but just not certain on it yet.

Help, help, help! I’ll attach a photo of the baby boy and see what you can hopefully come up with. Thank you so much for your time and help.

I don’t know how we’re supposed to focus on this problem with that cute baby making those cute faces at us.

I think one reason names are commonly chosen before birth is that it is IN GENERAL easier to choose a name before all the issues of the actual person arrive on the scene. It is hard enough to figure out issues such as “What names do we agree on?” and “What issues are important to us in a name?” without also having to think “Which names are right for This Particular Person Right Here?” and “What does his current personality mean for his name?” In theory, it should work better to name the actual person on the scene; in practice, it can make it hard to concentrate.

For one thing, right now he is a baby. Babies do have temperaments, and there are many aspects of personality my babies showed when they were tiny that have persevered—but the dominant temperament/personality of a baby is “baby.” If I were to name a baby a name that worked on a baby, I would choose something like Mr. Froggypants, or Pookie, or Cutie McTummersons, or Sir Crankybritches. All of my babies’ actual names felt very awkward on them at first, and only came to fit them later on as I got used to both the name and the baby; instead we called all of them “the baby,” or names such as Sir Crankybritches. Was it the same with your daughters’ names, or did their names instantly click into place and feel right?

In fact, did you have this same trouble naming your daughters? If you did, how did you overcome the difficulty? If you didn’t have the same trouble, is it because this time it’s a boy name and you have an easier time with girl names? Is he your last baby? Is it that you have backed yourself into a corner with requirements that can’t all be simultaneously met? It sounds to me as if we need to diagnose what the problem is before we can effectively work on fixing it.

Let’s look at your other requirements:

1. “Have more then one syllable that we can hopefully give him a nickname for when he is young.” Do you have a reason that the name must have more than one syllable? If not, this requirement may be eliminating some great potential names. Baby Boy could be his nickname, if that’s what you’ve been calling him since birth. And many one-syllable names also have nicknames: George to Georgie or Geordie; John to Jack or Johnny; James to Jim or Jimmy or Jamie. Or nicknames can come from his initials: J.D., for example.

2. “Either have his nickname or name be simple enough that my parents can pronounce, they are Chinese, and English is their second language.” This I won’t be able to help with, but perhaps some of the readers are familiar with what is easier/harder to pronounce in Chinese.

3. “Be not very popular.” This is something we can sort for, although I encourage you not to eliminate names on the basis of popularity alone. Boy names were tricky for me, but went much more smoothly when I realized my taste in boy names was Top 50. And one benefit of choosing a common name is that it’s more likely to fit a variety of types of people: the associations of the name will be diluted.

4. “Be an actual name.” Easy enough.

Can you alter or loosen or eliminate any of your requirements to make this easier on yourselves? If the entire pregnancy went by with no decision, it could be a reasonable strategy to say, “Well, let’s wait until he’s born.” But now another month has gone by, and you say it’s in fact getting harder rather than easier. This says to me that continued searching for The Right Name is not working, and may be distracting you from some of the enjoyment of his baby days.

Do you have any family names you could use as the first name? Or would you want to use what you’ve got so far (Dennis Cao Flegel) and call him Dennis/Denny/Densy for now? If later you were to think of a better first name, you could add it onto the front of his name.

What would Eloise like to name him?

Gabriel doesn’t seem feminine to me. Gabriel/Gabrielle is like Michael/Michaela or Paul/Paula: I don’t confuse the masculine and feminine versions of the name. It has the great nickname Gabe, and I think it works well with the sister names: Eloise, Annie, and Gabe. My one hesitation is that Gabriel Flegel seems like a lot of L.

The name Theodore seems perfect. It has multiple syllables and a great nickname for childhood and beyond. It’s an actual name, and not too common. Theodore Flegel; Eloise, Annie, and Theo.

I could suggest other names, but it seems like after this much time you’ve probably considered all of them. Still, I will suggest some, including ones that don’t meet your requirements:

Anderson
Archer
Bennett
Benjamin
Brendan
Casey
Charles
Derek
Darian
Everett
Garrett
George
Gideon
Griffin
Harrison
Henry
James
Jasper
Jeremy
John
Jonathan
Nathan
Nicholas
Simon
Warren
Wesley
Wilson

Name update! N. writes:

Thank you so much for your help Swistle and to everyone else who chimed in.  This might be your quickest update!  We have officially named our baby boy Theodore Dennis Cao Flegel.  I think I just needed the reassurance.  Since we waited so long to name him, I felt that I needed to exhaust all avenues.  Theo fits our baby boy just right!  Thanks!

I have attached a photo of Theo and his big sisters, Annie (1.5) and Eloise (3).

(photo by Michelle Regner)

M. writes:

I would love your honest opinion and ideas. My husband and I are naming a potential boy (unknown sex, due in May) James, after his father. I think it is a strong handsome name and am very happy with it. The problem is the middle. I like unique, fun, a little different names-especially in the middle spot. He likes traditional names with meaning for us. I fell in love with the name Atlas but husband really hates it. He says he hates it because of the sad mythology and its in line with naming your kid Adonis, Hercules etc, its too powerful, it just sounds silly-the list goes on. I just like the sound, especially with James and it works for us b/c we love travel and aspire to keep traveling with our kids. He really struggles with picking anything that doesn’t have meaning to us so we have been trying to come up with clever names that have something to do with our love or our lives.

So the question is two part. I’ll give you our small list-none of which either of us are completely jumping at, and then I’d love to hear any suggestions. Our last name is Dixon.

James Webster (Webster is the town where his family cabin resides, many good memories there)

James Oscar (my greatgrandfather- we think he might have been an SOB so we’re pretty sure we want to name our baby after him)

James Forster (my greatgrand mother’s maiden name-a stretch since we didn’t know them or really anything about them, but I like that is reminds me of nature al la forester)

James Stellan (a mix of William & Stevens, two family names. I’ve been told this is too full of the ‘s sound)

I like Archer (but the raunchy cartoon ruined it), Brooks (but his friend named his son that), Fitzgerald (but he thinks it sounds too Irish) He suggests a lot of words in German or French that apply to us but they never sound right and I don’t think he actually likes them anyways. We love travel, nature, hiking/camping, literature, history, music…we’ve also contemplated Hemmings & Walden (for literary reasons), Hugo, Canon (he can’t get on board but I like it!), Amory (This Side of Paradise Character). Other names I like but he thinks are too “out-there” or he doesn’t like them for other reasons: Knox, Gray, Heath, Wilder. Family names from my side that we don’t want to include outright but wouldn’t mind a twist on include: Rudolph, Joseph, Ora, Alan, William, Stevens.

Thats basically it. We are naming a girl Charlotte Auden. We wouldn’t want to use Auden for a boy.

Any suggestions? I realize you don’t know us so matching our loves or lives isn’t easy but I thought i’d ask anyways. We’re getting close to the end (I’m already 36 weeks!) and I’m worried we’re never going to find a perfect fit.

Thank you!!

P.S. I realize I left out- this is our first baby and we have a dog named Henry & a cat named Olive.

If both the surname and the first name are from your husband’s side of the family, I would be very inclined to look for a middle name from your side. You have a great-grandfather’s name and a great-grandmother’s maiden name on your list, but do you have any closer connections? Perhaps the name of your father or grandfather, a brother or uncle or cousin, your own family surname?

Looking at your list of names you don’t want to use without changing them, I’d suggest Rudy instead of Rudolph. James Rudy Dixon.

Instead of Joseph, I suggest Jonas: it has a little of the sound of Atlas, too.

Instead of Alan, I wonder if you’d like Nolan. I’m not crazy about the choppy sound of it with the surname, but full names are hardly ever said aloud, and I see from other candidates on your list that this isn’t a sound that bothers you. (This is the same as the issue of “too much S”: if it sounds like too much S to you, then it’s too much S; if it sounds like too much S to someone else but not to you, then it’s not too much S.)

Instead of William, you could use Liam or Wilson or Wills or Wells.

Instead of Stevens, you could use Evans. But to me, all these suggestions feel like they suck the meaning/significance right out of the names. Since meaning/significance is very important to the two of you, it seems better to find something you can use in its original form, if possible.

If Archer is out, I suggest Asher.

If Brooks is out (though with middle names especially, I think duplication is fine if everyone is fine with it), I suggest Hayes and Wells and Felix.

If you like the sound of Atlas, I wonder if you’d like any of these:

Adam
Addison
Adler
Amadeus
Angus
Atticus
August
Augustus
Curtis
Cyrus
Dallas
Darius
Davis
Edison
Elias
Ellis
Hadley
Harris
Julius
Linus
Louis
Lucas
Madden
Marcus
Mathias
Moses
Nicholas
Patrick
Patton
Phineas
Sebastian
Silas
Thaddeus
Thatcher
Tobias
Travis
Watson
Wesley
Wyatt

Are there any names you considered as a first name but rejected for reasons such as not going well with the surname, or already knowing a baby with that name, or not liking the initials? Names that had to be ruled out as first names can often be salvaged as middle names.

Instead of looking for names that relate to the two of you, I wonder if there are names that include goals you have for him? James Felix could tie in to a desire for him to be happy and lucky; James Sterling could tie in to hopes for his character. More virtue-name possibilities:

Able
Constant
Earnest
Justice
Loyal
Merit
Noble
Worth

While the goal is to find something you’re both happy with, it sounds to me as if your husband could stand to do a little more compromising on this: the first name is thoroughly traditional and meaningful, which are his priorities. It’s also a significant honor name from his side of the family. For the middle name, which is mostly hidden and unused and so is a great place to be more adventurous/whimsical, it seems like he could budge a little toward your preferences: something perhaps a little more fun and different than he’d normally prefer, without going quite as far as Atlas. It might work to have him make a list of names he’d consider a little fun/different, and see if there’s anything on there that appeals to you.

Name update! M. writes:

Hi there! Just wanted to update everyone on our sweet baby boy. James Willis Carraway Dixon was born May 7th at 2:24p weighing 6lb 15oz and 20″ long.

After my question was published we took a long walk and I read every single comment out loud. Between when I sent the question and it was published we had been throwing around Willis (as a play on William) but it still seemed to be lacking the extra something I was looking for. We are huge F. Scott Fitzgerald fans and our life travels have in ways mimicked both himself and Nick Carraway’s from the Great Gatsby. In the book Mr. Carraway is a great story teller and an empathetic observer of people. He is a chronicler and see’s people deeply. We admire these traits and feel happy giving our son this name with multiple meanings to us.

We want to thank everyone for their helpful comments and kind observations. Cheers!

Ashley writes:

So, I am 6.5 months pregnant with my second child, due June 20. We don’t know the sex, but we are fine on girl names (probably Adele). Our 3.5 year old son is Gabriel Christopher. We had three criteria for naming:

– Not too popular (ie: definitely not top 10, or ideally top 20, right now – since Mike and Ashley, our names, were in the top 3 the years we were born. TOO POPULAR.)
– Not too uncommon or trendy (ie: he won’t have to repeat himself five times, spelling it to the credit card company as an adult won’t be a pain, etc)
– Not boring/plain (this is subjective, obviously. His name needn’t be creative & unusual, just not TOO plain.)

I liked that I didn’t know any other Gabriels, but that it wasn’t a name that was unfamiliar. So far he’s the only Gabe in his playgroup, at preschool, etc. But no one ever says, “Oh, interesting name.” So! It was the name for us. I mean, him.

Our last name is Cadaret – sounds like “cabaret” with a d.

For this child, we are stuck with boy names. Nothing is sticking. At ALL. To add to our above criteria, I’d ideally like another name that has a nickname (we call our son Gabe) and that isn’t too biblical (No Raphael and Gabriel. Nope.).

Our (my?) favorites:
– Luke/Lucas/Luca (young cousin named Lucas, so it might be Luca/Luke)
– Oliver
– Julian (worried it’s going to be mistaken for feminine)
– Jude (maybe as a nickname for Julian – but sort of a stretch?)
– Theodore (Theo!)
– Samuel
(We do like the following, but start to veer into too plain territory…)
– Zachary
– Charles/Charlie
– Matthew

Names liked but cannot use (because we have a LOT of young boys in my family, they’re a top 10 name right now, or my husband just hates it)
– Leo
– William/Liam
– Caleb
– Dominic
– Henry
– Amos

Middle name will be a family name, probably. Christopher is my husband’s middle name. We’ll likely be doing John, Michael, Anthony, Salvador, William, or Thomas.

Okay. That is a lot of information. I’d love to hear what you have to say if you have time/space in your posting schedule!

My very first suggestion is a biblical name: Isaac, nicknames Zac or Ike. Biblical names have gone so mainstream: when I was growing up, Noah would have been a startlingly religious name to use, but now it’s the fourth most common name for U.S. baby boys in 2012. If I met a family with a Gabriel and an Isaac, the biblical nature of both names wouldn’t occur to me—and I grew up the daughter of a pastor. But I’m with you on avoiding a household set of archangels.

Before we go on to discuss other names, I want to take a minute to discuss name popularity. The name Ashley was in the top three from 1984 until 1997. The name Michael was in the top three from 1953 until 2010. But even more impressive than rankings are percentages: at its peak in 1987, the name Ashley was given to 2.93% of baby girls. I didn’t go through all the years for the name Michael, but it looks like it peaked in 1969 when it was given to 4.66% of baby boys; even in 1987 (to match it with the name Ashley and give your husband a more statistically likely birth year), it was given to 3.27% of baby boys.

Those are ENORMOUS numbers, compared with today’s: in 2012, even the most popular boy name in the United States (Jacob) was given to .94% of baby boys; the most popular girl name in the United States (Sophia) was given to 1.15% of baby girls. To match the popularity of Ashley in 1987, we’d have to almost combine the top three 2012 girl names (Sophia, Emma, Isabella); to match the popularity of Michael in 1987, we’d have to almost combine the top FOUR 2012 boy names (Jacob, Mason, Ethan, and Noah). If I’ve done the math correctly (and I really hope so, because that was some very tedious math), the Top 20 in 1987 accounted for 33.5% of boy names and 26.5% of girl names; the Top 20 in 2012 accounted for 14.9% of boy names and 12.2% of girl names.

This is not to say we can’t look for less-common names, and we will; and I know what you mean about wanting something that feels more interesting. But comparing 1987 names to 2012 names is like comparing 1987 dollars to 2012 dollars: adjustments are needed or else the results are misleading to the point of uselessness. The number one most popular boy name in 2012 is used at the same rate as the 23rd or 24th most popular boy name in 1987: if you wanted to avoid the equivalent of 1987’s Top 20 for boys, you could still choose 2012’s Top 1.

I don’t know why I did three paragraphs on that, considering I have no Top 20 names to push on you. But if there are any names you really like but have eliminated purely on the basis of popularity, I urge you to reconsider. William is Top 10 right now and was given to .83% of baby boys in 2012; in 1987 numbers, this level of usage would have put it between #27 (Adam, given to .87% of baby boys in 1987) and #28 (Benjamin, given to .76% of baby boys in 1987).

As an aside, Benjamin is an interesting example for popularity changes: I see it is currently MORE popular at #16 while being used LESS often at .63%. In fact, would you want to consider Benjamin? Gabriel and Benjamin; Gabe and Ben. I really, really like those names together. Or Bennett, if Benjamin seems too familiar: Gabriel and Bennett; Gabe and Ben. Which makes me think of another idea: if William is too popular, I wonder if Wilson would work: Gabriel and Wilson; Gabe and Will.

Okay! Let’s get out of 1987. In 2010, the name Gabriel was #21, given to .63% of U.S. baby boys; in 2012, it was #24, given to .57% of U.S. baby boys—very similar numbers. Some possible brother names:

August Cadaret; Gabriel and August; Gabe and Gus
Calvin Cadaret; Gabriel and Calvin; Gabe and Cal
Darian Cadaret; Gabriel and Darian
Davis Cadaret; Gabriel and Davis
Elias Cadaret; Gabriel and Elias; Gabe and Eli
Elliot Cadaret; Gabriel and Elliot
Emmett Cadaret; Gabriel and Emmett
Everett Cadaret; Gabriel and Everett
Hugo Cadaret; Gabriel and Hugo
Ian Cadaret; Gabriel and Ian
James Cadaret; Gabriel and James; Gabe and Jamie
Jasper Cadaret; Gabriel and Jasper
Louis Cadaret; Gabriel and Louis; Gabe and Lou
Malcolm Cadaret; Gabriel and Malcolm
Milo Cadaret; Gabriel and Milo
Nolan Cadaret; Gabriel and Nolan
Ruben Cadaret; Gabriel and Ruben
Simon Cadaret; Gabriel and Simon
Wesley Cadaret; Gabriel and Wesley; Gabe and Wes

Name update!

Hi there! I am so belated on this update as my son is nearly 5 months old, but we did, indeed, name him Theodore James and call him Theo. We love the name and the comments on your post helped us decide!

We’ve already learned that people often think he’s Leo or have no idea what we’re saying, so I have to clarify, “Like Theodore,” but oh well! He can also become TJ when he’s older if he decides.

Thanks!

J. writes

We’re expecting our first child in July which we’re expecting to be a boy. Even if the ultrasound is wrong, we’ll be covered as we’ve a few girls names we both like (Abigail, Isabel, Emily, Annabel). We may use these if we have a girl when we (hopefully) have a second child.

Our last name is like Hefner, but with a Hay sound instead of a Heh sound. We both like traditional sounding names and my husband would like something with a ‘bit of history’ – though naming after a close relative (such as a grandparent) is out because (1) choosing one side over the other may lead to undue discord and (2) neither of us were overly close to our grandfathers. We’re both J’s so thinking we’ll avoid that as a first initial. I also don’t think I can handle an alliterative names (e.g. Henry, Harry…certainly avoiding Hugh!). I also worry about anything ending with a -er, -a or -ar due to the rhyming sound… e.g. Oscar Hefner.

Names on the current shortlist include:
– Benedict (nn Ben): worried it’s too ‘out there’ in its full version
– Benjamin: quite like this, husband lukewarm.
– Edmund (nn Eddie): husband doesn’t like Eddie.
– Humphrey: I’ve got issues with alliteration and lack of a suitable nickname; my husband thinks it’s brilliant!
– Jacob: like the sound but never met a Jacob who wasn’t the ‘naughty kid’; also don’t like nickname Jake
– Leonard (nn Leo): don’t like Lenny and in Australia this name is pronounced Len-ard
– Sebastian: husband doesn’t like nickname Seb
– Solomon: worried a bit weighty cf. Tobias & Benedict
– Tobias: I keep going hot and cold on this one. Love nickname Toby but worried Tobias is a bit weighty.
– William: is a family name in several ways on my side. Don’t mind Billy, hate Willy and not in love with Will.

Other ones that take my fancy but don’t quite work include Miles, Atticus, Theodore (used by close friend recently), Rufus, Oscar, Oliver, Lewis, Joshua, Joseph, Jasper, and Elliot (close friend used recently). I love, but can’t use as already belong to my siblings, Lachlan, Malachi and Reuben.

Husband has Ghanian (West African) heritage and traditionally his family use a Ghanian name with the format Nii Something as a second middle name. So we will use a format of first name, second name, Ghanian name, surname… e.g. Humphrey Miles Nii BlahBlah Hefner.

Would love some fresh suggestions! Feel like I’ve read every boy’s name in the history of the world and coming up with nothing we both love.

Thank you!!

Name update!

Hello,

Just an update on our little one. He arrived safely in mid-July and we settled on ‘William James Nii Lantei’.

Thank you for all the suggestions from the Swistlers!!

J.

Megan writes:

My husband and I are due with our first baby (a boy!) on June 18. We are at a stand off when it comes to names. Our last name is Veselka. It’s a Czech name that sounds exactly like it is spelled, but it stumps so many people. We have to spell it for almost everyone. His family is very Czech (grandparents only spoke Czech in the home.) My family is mostly English and Irish and I seem to be kind of partial to the Irish names. We don’t want a name that is TOO common since we both grew up with pretty common names, but we don’t want anything off the wall either. I think that’s every parent’s wish (except those crazy few.)

My husband’s name is Steven Rey. His dad’s name is Reynold and he goes by Rey, that’s where the Rey comes in. My name is Megan Anne. Simple, normal names. I want our son to have a name that is easy to pronounce and spell since he will most likely have to spell his last name for everyone already. This is the first grandchild on Steve’s side and the 4th grandchild on mine, all boys. That doesn’t really make a big difference, but it does make me want to kind of honor his side of the family some since this is the first.

Originally, my husband REALLY wanted to name our son Riggins, as in John Riggins, the old Washington Reskins football player who was his idol growing up. He loves last names for first names. I vetoed Riggins because, well, just no. I told him it’s a great dog name. We have been calling the baby Riggins kind of like you’d call him Peanut or something as a fetus nickname.

I would like our son to have his dad’s middle name, Rey, but I am not set on that. I’m not opposed to using other family names as middle names, whether they are from his side or mine.

My favorite name for our son: Emerson Rey
My husband’s favorite name for our son: Quinn (he hasn’t suggested a suitable middle name and I think Quinn Rey just does not sound that great)

We can’t seem to think of any other names we really like.

Here are some family names, both from his side and mine
Gordon, Emil, Robert, David, Henry, Jordan, Alden

So! Those are the details and I know I didn’t give you much to work with, but maybe you or your readers can help with some suggestions. Thanks so much!

Let’s start by taking a look at the name Emerson. I’m glad to have a chance to discuss it, because we received another letter awhile back asking if it was still a usable name for a boy, but I ran out of time that week and didn’t get to it; so if you’re thinking, “Wait, but I didn’t ask about this aspect of it,” that’s the explanation.

Here’s a look at the current usage of the name for girl (F) and boy (M) babies in the United States, and how it’s been changing over the last ten years:

2003: 324 F; 265 M
2004: 268 F; 266 M
2005: 683 F; 387 M
2006: 1068 F; 469 M
2007: 1079 F; 537 M
2008: 1161 F; 583 M
2009: 1016 F; 638 M
2010: 1009 F; 635 M
2011: 1149 F; 734 M
2012: 1301 F; 828 M

As you can see, the current usage of the name Emerson is unisex, rising for both girls and boys, with about half-again more girls given the name than boys. In 2012 in the U.S., it was the 364th most popular name for boys and the 244th most popular name for girls.

Alternate spellings should be factored in as well; there are more spellings than this, but I stuck to the ones with at least 20 babies given the name:

Emersen: 56 F; 12 M
Emersyn: 455 F; 8 M
Emmerson: 134 F; 9 M
Emmersyn: 57 F; – M

If we add those numbers to the 2012 numbers for the spelling Emerson, we have 2003 female babies and 828 male babies: more than double the number of girls than boys. The name Emerson fits well with the Madison/Addison trend, as well as with the recent popularity of Em- names for girls; for boys, it fits well with surname names such as Mason and Grayson.

Now that I’ve written out all this data, what is my point? It’s not that you shouldn’t use the name for a boy: tons of boys are still being given the name, and the usage is still unisex. But it’s good to know the numbers going into it. I have an acquaintance who named her son Mackenzie without realizing the current usage was primarily for girls (the only Mackenzie she knew was a male family member). It’s turned out fine (he goes by Mack), and she likely would have used the name anyway—but she didn’t enjoy the surprise of finding out after the fact.

I can’t tell from the letter how each of you feels about the other one’s top name choice. If the issue is that you each have your own favorite name and neither one of you wants to use the other one’s favorite, the most likely (and painful) solution is that both favorites will need to be scrapped and the search will need to start again—not for names you like as well as the names that had to be scrapped, but for the names you like best out of the choices that remain. Or maybe one of you would accept being the middle name choice: Emerson Quinn or Quinn Emerson. Or if you’re planning to have more children, and since both names work for both sexes, one name could be used for this child and the other for the next—though this is risky, as parents often feel differently about names with each baby. Or one of you might give up a favorite in exchange for another desired name: for example, would your husband agree to Emerson if Riggins could be the middle name? Would you agree to Quinn if you had more choice in the middle name?

One way to get more ideas for a shortish list is to chop up a name into the reasons you might like it, and then look for other names that match any of those pieces. Maybe you like the Em- sound of Emerson, in which case I might suggest Emmett and Jeremy and Remy and Emory—or Emil from your middle name list. Maybe you like the -son sound, in which case I might suggest Carson, Hudson, Lawson, Wilson, Samson, or Greyson. Maybe you like the unisex nature of the name, in which case I might suggest Avery, Rory, Rhys, Rowan, Finley, Casey, or Ellis—or Jordan from the middle name list, or your husband’s choice of Quinn. Maybe it’s something more general about the sound of the name, in which case I might suggest Anderson, Garrison, Harrison, Edison, or Davison. Maybe you like surname names, in which case I might add Davis, Bennett, Miller, Redford, Thompson, or Wells. Maybe it’s the poetry connection, in which case I might suggest Byron, Whitman, Blake, Tennyson, or Eliot. Maybe the name has another sentimental association for you, in which case I’d look for more names with similar associations.

We can do the same with Quinn. Finn, Quentin, Finnegan, Finnian, Griffin, Quincy, Zane, Flynn, Teague, Dean, Sullivan, Tiernan, Keane, Ian, Bryce, Kieran, Sean, Felix, Briggs, Seth, John, Casey.

Or there’s the game of baby-name-book surfing I like to play with The Baby Name Wizard: start with Emerson, and look at the suggested brother names: Everett, Paxton, Whitman, Beckett, Miles, Truman. Pick your favorite of those (even if you’re only so-so about all of them), and then look up THAT name and ITS brother names, and pick your favorite of THOSE. If you hit a dead end (for example, the name you like best doesn’t have its own entry), go back and choose again. Keep going until you feel like you’re narrowing in on a circle of preferred names or a preferred TYPE of name. Or maybe you’ll find that every name you choose belongs to the same one or two categories, so you can flip to the back and look more carefully through those categories. Another type of success is to think, “I really don’t like ANY of these names”—which may mean the name you’re looking at is an outlier for your style.

I keep finding treasures on your middle name list. Would you rather not use a family name as the first name? If you don’t mind it, I love Alden and Gordon especially. Alden would probably need to be spelled—but I think that’s okay. Both my maiden and married surnames have needed to be spelled every single time (and often more than once), and my first name also needs to be spelled every single time, but I wouldn’t say it’s been a big deal. Most first names (even easy ones) need to be spelled.

I think I’d add Riggins to the middle name list: I like Quinn Riggins, though then the name is very heavily chosen by your husband; I’d want to have an agreement in place to try to even that out with the next child.

Would your husband like to use John Riggins’s first name instead of his last name? Depending on where you live, John as a first name can be quite a fresh and surprising choice—like Mary for a girl, where it feels like such a common name but it’s not common at all for current babies. John has a similar sound to Quinn, and John Emerson Veselka would be a very handsome choice.

Name update! Megan writes:

Hi Swistle! On June 5, 2014 at 7:42pm, my husband and I welcomed Cameron Rey! He was 7lbs, 3oz, 20.5inches long, and perfect!

We decided against using Emerson and Quinn. After seeing all of the comments, we realized that even though WE might not consider them female names, the majority of people do. Cameron was suggested by someone on Twitter and we added it to the list. It wasn’t until I was in early labor that we decided for sure. We like that we can shorten it to Cam or also use the full name.

Thanks for your help and the input of your readers!!