Dear Swistle,

My husband and I are so excited to welcome baby boy #3 into our family this February, but we are in desperate need of help with his name. You (and your readers’ comments) were a tremendous help to me in naming our second child back when I wrote to you in June 2012 (“Baby girl or boy Fable, sibling to Sawyer Benjamin“) that I decided to write again.

My name is Jocelyn and my husband’s name is Brian, last name rhymes with Fable. We currently have two sweet and silly boys, Sawyer Benjamin and Reed Wheeler. I have a strong sense to continue the surname/not-very-common naming trend as with Sawyer and Reed, but can’t seem to find anything that we both agree on… and trust me, I’ve read ALL the lists in the Baby Name Wizard book! Also not sure if I want another -er name, in order to not leave out Reed. Hudson is super cute, but is my nephew’s name (as is Fletcher).

We both almost agreed on the name Brooks, but discovered the sad connection to the character Brooks from the movie Shawshank Redemption, unfortunately ruling out that name. Other names I am somewhat drawn to are Brennan, Beckett, Brady, Grant, Parker, and ones that my husband has suggested include Hunter, Forrest, Henry, and Jack. Neither of us are crazy about the other’s list, however, leaving us stumped. If the baby were to be a girl, we would hands down agree on Madeline… but of course, this was not meant to be easy :) Any suggestions are MUCH appreciated!

Thank you,
Jocelyn

I will be gone most of the day today (Edward has an appointment with a specialist, so I will spend a big part of the day clenching my hands on the steering wheel and trying not to panic about all the Big City Drivers driving crazily around me), so this is the perfect day to do a letter I originally planned not to choose because my answer was going to be so short I wasn’t sure it was worth it.

My answer is this: that even though I’ve seen The Shawshank Redemption several times and have also re-read several times the short story it’s based on, the Brooks connection didn’t occur to me—and hasn’t occurred to me even though the name Brooks has come up fairly regularly around here. Even once the connection was pointed out, it seems like a very weak one, and also a positive one (albeit sad). The movie is 20 years old now and the short story it was based on is over 30 years old, and surname names are popular; so even though Stephen King remains a current cultural figure and his books remain popular for re-reading, I don’t think anyone would think you intended the connection to that particular character. If I DID have reason to think the connection was deliberate, I’d think, “Oh, yes—that sweet, sweet man.”

So my advice is to go with Brooks if you love it. But I’ll also post this in case Brooks would have been out anyway and you’d like more suggestions.

Name update!

Hi Swistle!

A much postponed name update to my 11/6/14 post “Baby Boy Fable, Brother to Sawyer and Reed.” We have happy and healthy baby brother #3 named Beckett Henry “Fable”.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my two requests. I found it so helpful and exciting to hear from you and your thoughtful readers!

Thanks again!!
Jocelyn

Hi Swistle,
My husband and I have been debating this particular baby-name quandary for years, and now that we’re relatively close to starting a family I’d really like some outside opinions. We agree that we would like to use family names for our children, but our preferences differ wildly. My husband would rather we gave our kids culture-spanning classics, whereas I’m drawn to heritage-specific names. For the record, our families have been in the US for one and three generations respectively, and our last name is his family’s Ellis Island adoption. His argument is that our overly common surname lends a comical effect to heritage choices (his go-to example is Juan-Pablo Jones, which I honestly don’t find that jarring!) He also thinks that trying to pull off an ethnic name rings of cultural-appropriation, even if that culture is historically our family’s. I think our surname justifies using a more daring (in this country at least) given name. Getting him to talk about it seriously has been like trying to put socks on a cat. He gets squirmy and distracted, and pulls the “we’ve still got time” card, when all I want is to have my hypothetical children’s names decided a good year in advance so that I can devote that corner of my brain to other things. Is that too much to ask, Swistle? But honestly, I’m not sure how to go about convincing him just yet. For one thing, what if his claims are valid? Am I so distracted by pretty, foreign-sounding names that I can’t see a potentially awkward situation in the making? I’d love to know your thoughts on pairing an ethnic family name with a run-of-the-mill surname. Are there any situations in which you think it should be avoided?

Sincerely, H

It’s very likely your husband will be much more willing to discuss these issues when a baby is on the way. (Or, if he’s like Paul, sometime in the third trimester.) In the meantime, discussing them with others is EXACTLY what this blog is for.

I think it’s unnecessary for him to bring cultural appropriation into it when what you’re discussing is using names FROM YOUR OWN CULTURES. It sounds as if his concern is that other people will THINK it’s cultural appropriation: that is, if someone didn’t realize your cultural background, they might think you shouldn’t have used the name. I am generally on the side of worrying what other people think and of taking into account the society we live in (I don’t want to give a child a name that will make people think badly of her or of us), but this doesn’t seem like an issue here. First/last-name incompatibility could happen any time the parents didn’t come from the same cultural background, or any time a surname gets married out of usage. It seems like even (or especially) people hyper-aware of cultural appropriation issues would also be aware that the current particular surname doesn’t tell the story of the family background.

One possibility that may be more trouble than it’s worth is to go back to the family’s pre-Ellis-Island surname. But this doesn’t solve the problem if you want to use names that represent YOUR heritage. And I assume he doesn’t want to argue that only the surname branch of the family can be represented.

Furthermore, matching the first name and surname can lead to another problem, which I’ve heard referred to as the “just off the boat” problem: Juan-Pablo Rodriguez might encounter more trouble in life than Juan-Pablo Jones. It SHOULDN’T be that way, but it can be.

So far it sounds like I’m absolutely against your husband, but actually I see his point; it’s only that I think his arguments don’t fit or help his point. If I were him, I’d stick to saying that I just don’t like the way it sounds when the first name and surname have a cultural clash, or when a very unusual/exotic first name is paired with a very plain/common surname. I have a very Dutch surname, and combining it with, say, a very French or very Chinese first name, gives a combination I find comical/jarring/unpleasant. It’s not that I worry people will think I’m trying to steal from another culture (for example, let’s say my family’s heritage was French or Chinese, and I had taken my husband’s Dutch surname); it’s just that I don’t like the sound of it. And “not liking the sound of it” is a completely legitimate reason not to want a certain kind of baby name: there’s no need to escalate it beyond that.

What I’d suggest, if you both would like to represent your family/cultural backgrounds but he doesn’t like the way your favorites sound with the surname, is to use those names as middle names—perhaps with a culture-spanning family first name. I think if I were you, I’d offer this in the form of a compromise: you’ll put the names in the middle name position, but then you get to choose ones that sound even more culturally representative. For example, I love the Dutch name Thijs (pronounced Tice, to rhyme with ice), and it’s a name from Paul’s cultural background AND mine, and it fits culturally with our surname—but we didn’t want to use that as a first name in the United States, where it would cause no end of hassle. If I’d had my heart set on using it, it would have made a spectacular middle name.

Name update:

Hi again Swistle!
I wrote you the “Juan-Pablo Jones Problem” letter a few years ago, and I’m pleased to report that we successfully named a baby with minimal injury to ourselves/others! Yours and readers’ advice was very grounding, so thank you. I was really stirred up about “solving” the name at the time, but it was useful to be reminded that hearts, minds, and circumstances change once a baby is a reality. The news that we were expecting a girl coincided with a dear friend of ours falling ill, and despite all the grand declarations I made in my original email (calm down past self!) it became more important to us to honor her with a namesake than worry about the name clashing. We used our friend’s name in the middle and chose a name off the family tree for her first. And despite being a name derived from two different cultures, one of which is decidedly not ours, I can’t imagine our sweet 0ttili@ N@ida (pronounced Nye-ee-da) Jones as anyone but herself. I love her name in a way I don’t think I could have been if I’d stuck to my stipulations. She’s a reminder of our deep roots, and the most recent ones.
Sincerely, H

Help Swistle!

We are having our second child, a boy, in four days and still don’t know what we are going to call him. He’s been called Baby Brother throughout the pregnancy. Our first child is a girl named Hannah Claire. Her middle name is a namesake for a dear family friend and Hannah both my husband and I instantly loved. Our last name is Burt0n.

We like traditional / widely recognized names that are not too overused.

I love Holden for a boy but I don’t think it works with our surname. I also like Finnegan and Finn but again struggle with the N sound at the end.

My husband likes Noah for a first name. Noah reminds me too much of “No” and I imagine myself shouting “No, Noah!” at the playground! Perhaps this association would fade though?

I’d like to use my Grandfather’s name James as a namesake but as a middle name since it’s so popular now. My husband is considering it for a first name, since we haven’t thought of anything else we can agree on. At any rate James is the only name on the yes list at the moment.

Samuel is also a contender, though we have a few girl relatives who go by Sam or Sammie.

We both come from large families and a lot of the typical traditional names have been used (Matthew, Daniel, Richard, Charles, Thomas, Nicholas, John, Anthony, Alexander, Benjamin, Jacob, etc.)

Any thoughts?!

Many thanks,

Sarah

This post has some feedback in the comments section on whether “No, Noah” is an issue: Baby Boy Smith, Brother to Carson Michael. I don’t think it would be a problem. A bigger issue for me is that Hannah and Noah both end in -ah and both have strong N-sounds: they sound and look very similar to me, almost like rearrangements of each other. I don’t think that would need to rule out the name Noah, but since it also reminds you of “no” and you’d prefer to avoid overused names (it’s currently the most popular boy name in the United States), it seems like it isn’t the name you want.

I vote for James. It’s less common at #13 than the #1-ranking Noah (18,090 new baby boys named Noah and 13,416 named James in 2013); you both agree on it; and it’s a family name. I love the names Hannah and James together, and I think James Burt0n is a wonderful name. Perhaps Noah would work as the middle name? James Noah Burt0n.

Name update!

It was so great to see your response and everyone’s comments.  It was helpful to have new suggestions we hadn’t considered before.  In the end, we decided on Samuel James, which I love – though we do still call him Baby Brother quite often!  I can hardly believe he is already 3 months old.  Thank you again for the input!

Relevant facts:

• My husband has an unusual three-letter name.
• Our last name starts with S, which is also the third letter of my husband’s first name.
• I am due late December with #4, and we’ve decided not to find out the sex of the baby this time.
• This is our final child, we have a naming pattern with the other three of “first name we liked, middle name family name.”
• The girls family name we liked last time (when we had a boy) was Alice.
• If we name a baby _________ Alice S________ that gets us reaaaaaaally close to initials that spell my husband’s first name
• This is cool, right??? My husband and I both think so!
• Butttttttttt………..and there had to be one………..there are only two girls names that start with C that I like-not-love (Cora and Clara) and lately I’ve even been toying with NOT using Alice (though I think ultimately we will.)

So here’s where I need help. Can you think of any other “C” girls names that are similar to Cora, Clara (or our other kids – Patrick, Lila, Joel – not super popular but not weird)? OR, can you release me from the desire to HAVE TO USE a name that starts with C?

Relevant info for a boy: we are NOT considering the naming pattern for a boy, but would welcome boys name ideas similar to:

Leo
Emmett
Elliott
Caleb
and of course – Patrick and Joel

Help me Swistle!!!!

I will start by making a suggestion I know you have already considered, so it is a little silly to make the suggestion at all, except that sometimes around here we’ve found that it works. Here it is: I love the name Alice with this sibling set, and so I suggest it as the first name. But I know it’s common for a previous frontrunner to not seem quite right for a subsequent child, so I won’t push. But Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Alice—I love it.

The next step is to discuss some good C names for girls, and then after that I’ll work on removing the pressure to choose one of them. Cora and Clara are both great: I love both of those.

Another of my favorite C names is Celeste, but I suspect that would be too much S-sound with your surname. Cecily has the same issue.

Colette, maybe? Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Colette. Hm, it may share too many sounds with Joel.

Or Corinne. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Corinne.

Or Cleo. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Cleo. It bothers me a little bit that Joel and Cleo both have four letters and share three of them.

Claudia works, I think. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Claudia.

Camille would be pretty. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Camille.

Carys may not work with Alice, which is too bad. Carissa instead, or Clarissa? Clarissa is one of my own favorites. But it might have too much S-sound to work well with your surname.

Oh, perhaps plain Claire? Similar to Clara, and takes away all the S of Clarissa. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Claire.

I like Cressida, but I wonder if it’s a little too unusual for the sibling group; also it has the S issue.

Well, my favorites are still your top two, Cora and Clara. I have a slight preference for Cora with Lila, but it’s only slight.

Now for the reassurance. While I agree that it is quite fun and interesting to have a child’s initials spell your husband’s name, I don’t think it’s fun/interesting enough to be worth choosing a name you only like, if there are names you love. It’s the sort of gimmick I do enjoy (like when twins have matching initials or reversed first/middle initials), but it doesn’t feel irresistible. I think in the long run you would get more satisfaction out of choosing a name you loved.

Also, it would break your naming pattern, which of course is fine, but it’s an argument to use if you’d LIKE to talk yourself out of it. (If you wanted to be talked INTO it, and if you found a C name that you liked well enough to use, I’d instead be saying you were still meeting the spirit of the naming pattern: names you liked plus a family-name connection.)

One possibility is to just get CLOSE to the idea: you could give her the same three letters in a different order, for example (Alice C. S.), or use your husband’s name (or a feminine form of it such as Cassie or Cassandra) as her middle name.

I think my strategy at this point would be to set aside the initials idea for now, and look for first names you love. If you find some, then weigh it: “This name we love, or this name we like-don’t-love with the fun initials?” If you find only names you like, then it’s a different situation, and may help make one name pull ahead of the others: “This name we like-don’t-love with fun initials, or this name we like-don’t-love without fun initials?”

For boys, I’m going to copy the list down here again so we have it to look at; names similar to:

Leo
Emmett
Elliott
Caleb
and of course – Patrick and Joel

A name we had on our finalist list for our youngest child may work here: Alan. We’d watched a television show with a very appealing Alan Alda doing the hosting/narrating, and then of course there’s Alan Rickman. It comes to mind because I saw it in action on a child for the first time just this weekend: I was in a store, and a mother called her elementary-school-aged son Alan, and I thought “That works!” It’s a slight surprise, without seeming weird. It’s similar in sound to Alice, and I think it goes well with brothers Patrick and Joel.

I wonder if you would like the name Calvin? Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Calvin.

Or Henry. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Henry.

Or Wesley. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Wesley.

Or Timothy. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Timothy.

Or Malcolm. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Malcolm.

Or Graham. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Graham.

Or Edmund. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Edmund.

Or Callum. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Callum.

Or Gideon. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Gideon.

Or Micah. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Micah.

Or Philip. Patrick, Lila, Joel, and Philip.

Name update!

First of all, I was completely swayed by you and your commenters and decided that we’d buck the C-A-S initial idea and go with Alice Rose for a girl.  I loved it, I dreamed it, I wanted it – and then we had a BOY!

Elliot Baxter (Baxter is the birthplace of my grandmother – she hated her name so we went a little creative to honor her) was born December 19, 9lbs 3oz and 21 inches.

Picture attached!

Thanks for your help – I am totally mourning the loss of Alice, but we love our Elliot.

Michelle

Hi Swistle-

I’ve been reading your blog for a long time. As a 1980 Jennifer, I find naming trends very interesting. I also knew after naming our first son, that if we were to have any more male children, we’d be in trouble and would need your help.

My husband is Benjamin (Ben) and my 4yr old son is Noah Jacob. As one of many Jennifers, we didn’t pick Noah because of it’s popularity. It really was the only name we could agree on that we both liked (neither loved). My husband liked it a little more than me; Jacob was husband’s favorite name that go round. What we do like about Noah’s name is that all 3 names have very different sounds. Our last name is Herman, that starts with an S. The biblical theme is purely coincidental. DH is Jewish and I was raised Catholic but neither of us are very religious.

Baby boy #2 is due in January and we’ve begun looking at names with some trepidation. We think we are pretty set on the first name Matthew. I like it a bit more than husband, but it was a contender last time around and again pretty much the only name we are both in agreement on.

We are struggling in the middle name spot. I’d like something with a bit of a harder sound to balance the “thew” and “Sh..man” sounds. My pick is Elliot; I don’t love the name, but I like the sound. DH likes Issac in the same vein; I’m not as keen on this one. Secondary question: both of these would spell MES and MIS respectfully. I don’t think either is a deal breaker, but I know you are less a fan of initials that spell something. Should we worry about this?

The other thought is to honor a family member. DH’s middle name is Samuel, named after an Uncle Sam. He was close to his grandfather so we’ve been playing around with that a bit. Family names on my side have been well represented with other family members.

DH’s grandfather’s name was Sanford N. *herman. Apparently, his name was originally Samuel; when starting a business here in the US he changed his name to Sanford because it sounded more businessman-like and chose the middle initial N. However, he didn’t like the name Sanford and went by the nickname Shep exclusively. As far as we know, Shep was just chosen without significance like Skip, Buck, etc. What would we chose as the name? Samuel is out since DH has never liked it, Grandfather didn’t like Sanford, and Shep is a made up nickname. Should we use Shepard? Though I’m worried about the biblical theme of Matthew Shepard; we aren’t planning on any more children but it just seems odd in comparison to our actual personalities. Is Shep a stand alone name? Should we use pick another S name (though we’ve been through the list without any grabbers)? Do we worry about the alliteration of the middle to last name? My guess is we let that go if we are doing an honor name.

Here were possible contenders for this baby. Our girl name most likely would have been Lila.

Mine:
Alexander
Andrew/Drew
Gray (vetoed by him)
Max (vetoed by him)

Husband:
Adam
Caleb (vetoed by me)
Joel

Thanks for your help!
Jenn

It’s true I don’t generally like initials to spell anything, but MES and MIS don’t spell anything, unless there’s an acronym I’m not familiar with. I suppose we could say they spell MESS and MISS, sort of, and with initials such as FUK I would indeed consider even the misspelled word an issue—but with MES and MIS, I don’t think of mess/miss, and it doesn’t bother me even when I do.

I think if you wanted to honor a Samuel who changed his name to Sandford and was known as Shep, you could probably pick any of those three names. I’d lean toward whichever one most brings the person to mind; I’d also lean toward Samuel, since that’s a triple family honor name: your husband, your husband’s uncle, and your husband’s grandfather. I don’t think I’d be likely to use Shepherd—not because of religious issues (I had to think for a moment to figure out why it would be religious, even though I grew up fully immersed in Jesus-as-shepherd metaphors), but because it seems to go a step too far from the honoree: the name situation is peculiar enough (he chose the name Sandford himself, even though he didn’t like it, and then chose an unrelated nickname) without making it even more peculiar. But we could instead think of it this way: once we’re such a distance from the man’s original name, what’s one more step? And you wouldn’t need to say the whole story; you’d just say the middle name was Shepherd, “after his great-grandfather.”

Certainly Shep can be a stand-alone name, particularly for the middle name, particularly for an honor name: it would be a somewhat unusual choice, but easy to explain (“Named for his great-grandfather, who was known as Shep”) and it wouldn’t be likely to come up often. Matthew Shep Sh_____ is perhaps not ideal in sound, but it’s fine. If you did want to lengthen Shep, and you wanted to reduce the shepherd connection, you could spell it like the surname instead: Matthew Shepard Sh_____. I do think that’s handsome, though it reminds me of the sad Matthew Shepard story.

But if your husband doesn’t like the name Samuel, and you don’t want to use the name Sandford because the man who chose it for himself didn’t like the name, and Shep/Shepherd/Shepard doesn’t seem right either, it may just be that this grandfather is not a good candidate for an honor name.

It does seem simpler to choose one of your other favorite middle names. Since your husband liked the name Noah a little more than you did and also got his favorite name as the middle name, it seems as if the most balanced plan would be to use one of your favorite names as middle name this time around: Elliot, perhaps, or maybe another name off your first-name list. Matthew Alexander $herman is nice.

Name update!

Hi there-
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions on naming our second baby boy. Matthew David was born a few days early on Jan. 14th weighing 7lbs 9oz 20inches long.

Using a family honor name pretty much went out the window once my husband learned that he was also named after his grandfather’s original name and he didn’t need to be honored again. David was picked for the middle because of the harder sounds we both liked. We are enjoying our new family of 4 and think his name fits him perfectly.

Thanks again! Picture attached with big brother, Noah
Jenn

Hi Swistle!

I’m SO. EXCITED. to finally be sending you my own baby name question, after reading your blog for at least 7 years and your baby name blog since its inception.

Even more exciting? TWINS. They’re quite likely identical, so anything that makes their names too matchy or hard-to-keep-separate is out for us (not the same first letter, definitely not rhyming), but I’d love it if there’s some subtle connection.

We have two names that my husband and I both like, maybe love, and have had in mind for a good long time. It kind of surprises me that I latched onto something so quickly, so I’ve resisted closing the case. We’ll probably not decide for sure til we meet them.

Top contenders:
Eleanor nn either Ella or Nora
Beatrice nn Bea — okay with the alliteration, many in husband’s fam have names that start with B. He goes by Bo, so is it cute that her nickname (and full name with nickname) would be so much like his, or weird?

Others that we love:
Madeleine — maybe too close to my name?
Everly nn Eve — maybe too Southern (though we are Southern, and do love the Everly Brothers, but maybe not enough to give them what appears to be a namesake?)
Louisa nn Lula / Lou
Adelaide or Adeline nn Delia / Ada
Olivia nn Ollie — out because someone else in the family has dibs!

Another strong possibility is that we could call one of them Cole, which is my last name; I didn’t change my name when we got married. After some tense conversations, I’ve accepted that the girls’ last name will be the same as my husband’s, Bedingfie!d. (Aside: does ANYONE out there agree with me that giving one my surname and one my husband’s is even an option? I get horrified looks from most people, including my husband, when broaching this, but it’s the only FAIR thing, isn’t it? Won’t identical twins already have enough in common? I do grant that they could consider us to be crazy later on. No matter, pretty much vetoed. Don’t worry, folks who think I’m insane.)

But I’ve always thought Cole could be a very cute girls’ name. I like it when I give my name as Cole and get the impression the other person thinks it’s my first name and I’m all cool girl. But given how much more common it is as a boys’ name (3432 M, 13 F in 2013), I don’t feel like it’s okay to give it as a girl’s first name by itself. We looked at possibilities for names for which it could be a nickname (Colette is my fave, Nicole, maybe Colleen), but don’t love any of them. So maybe just Cole as a middle name to go by? But then should only one of them get my name as their middle? If one is going by it, it would be weird to give it as a middle for both, right? Maybe two middles, one first, one secondary? (Thanks for this post https://www.swistle.com/babynames/2014/08/01/baby-girl-l______-sister-to-daniel-danny-and-thomas-tommy/ on the logistics for your family with two middles!) We have a few family names we love that could get in the middle name game, primarily my husband’s grandmother, Lita, who’s an identical triplet, but also two great-aunts of mine, Ruth and Virginia.

May have more kids later… not sure I can think about it with a house remodel still not finished, and two (!!) newborns en route in the next few months. Due date is December 6, so we hope they’ll stay put at least til November. On the chance we do end up with a boy someday, some boys’ names we like: Milo, Emmett, Hugo, Oscar, Finn.

So — help with middles, any ideas that could trump our faves, any cute connections between names aside from general stylistic compatibility?

Thanks so much! Can’t wait to send pictures! I mean, I can wait, especially as long as we still have sheetrock dust in our house, but I’m very excited about the update to this post!

Cheers,
Marilyn

I think Eleanor and Beatrice are wonderful twin names, and it’s my favorite pairing from your list. I like the subtly matching -ea-. I think it’s cute and not weird to have a father Bo and daughter Bea. If you were to decide it was too similar, my second favorite set is almost a tie: Eleanor and Louisa, with Eleanor and Adelaide/Adeline right behind. The one thing that makes Eleanor and Adelaide/Adeline my second choice is that you’d prefer nicknames for Adelaide/Adeline that I think could be tough to implement, and she might end up Addy. I also like Louisa and Adeline—but again, it sinks lower on my list because of nickname issues.

Cole is dramatically different in style from the rest of your list, and it seems like trying to call one twin Cole immediately creates a tangle of issues. I think my top choice would be to use it as a middle name for both girls (and all subsequent children).

If you were strongly motivated to call one twin Cole, I would suggest this:

1. Beatrice, called Bea, would share ties with her dad’s name because of the similar nicknames/alliteration,

2. So then Eleanor would share ties with your name, by being named Eleanor Cole and called Cole (the Elean- part of her name also sounds similar to the -ilyn part of your name).

I would choose a different middle name then for Beatrice, perhaps Lita (another tie to her dad’s side) or Marilyn (so that each girl would have a part of her mother’s name).

Or if you decided you loved the name Colette, you could have Beatrice (called Bea, a tie to her dad) and Colette (called Cole, a tie to her mom). Perhaps Beatrice Lita and Colette Ruth.

I do think giving twins different surnames is a startling idea. I think it would be a statement not worth the ensuing confusion. The symbolism seems tricky to handle: surnames are packed with meaning, which is why it can be so incredibly annoying/upsetting to give up our own, or to give our children our husband’s family’s name. Applying those issues in such a dramatic and potentially divisive way to twins’ names makes me feel uneasy.

If the girls are going to have their father’s surname, and you have kept your surname, this makes me vote a second time to give them your surname as a middle name. I think it would also be an excellent name to keep in mind for a possible future son. (I think it would be fine to use it as the girls’ middle names AND as a son’s first name. I would think of it as “including your surname somewhere in each child’s name.” If there were to be a second son, I would use it as his middle name. Or I might decide to use it as a middle name for all the children, and not as anyone’s first name.)

Middle names. My favorite option is to use your surname AND an additional middle name, so that preserving your surname doesn’t mean losing the fun of choosing middles. I first thought to ask what Lita’s sisters’ names were, but then realized it would be awkward to use two triplet names and leave out the third. So: Lita, Ruth, and Virginia. I think my favorite would be to use Ruth and Lita, since they’re both four letters.

Eleanor Lita Cole and Beatrice Ruth Cole
Eleanor Lita Cole and Louisa Ruth Cole
Eleanor Lita Cole and Adelaide Ruth Cole
Eleanor Lita Cole and Adeline Ruth Cole

Another option, since the children will have your husband’s surname, is to use both names from your side of the family. This feels roughly even to me: two middles come closer to the impact of one surname.

Eleanor Virginia Cole and Beatrice Ruth Cole
Eleanor Virginia Cole and Louisa Ruth Cole
Eleanor Virginia Cole and Adelaide Ruth Cole
Eleanor Ruth Cole and Adeline Virginia Cole

Name update!

Hi Swistle!

Thanks so much for all your sweet thoughtful input on our daughters’ names. Everyone helped us seal the deal on Eleanor and Beatrice. In light of wanting Bo’s maternal grandmother (an identical triplet) to be a namesake, we looked up my maternal grandmother’s name, Rhea, and realized she’s in Greek mythology as the mother of Romulus and Remus! So we ended up with Eleanor Lita Cole Bedingf!eld and Beatrice Rhea Cole Bedingf!eld. We’re calling them Nora and Bea. Merry Christmas to you all!

Hello Swistle!

I’ve been following your blog for a long time, well before marriage, children, and the like. I never imagined needing your assistance, given my long lead time on coming up with a name, but here we are, seven weeks out from the due date (11/7), and I’m getting cold feet (about the name, not the child. Whew.)

We are keeping all names close to the vest, so I find myself unable to talk through any of this with someone, and it’s beginning to play with my 3rd trimester brain. I would so appreciate your thoughts. We are not finding out the gender and would like to go in with 2 names for each and see what the wrinkly little person looks like. We’re good on boys; need some help & possible reassurance on girls.

I am a Sarah and my husband’s name is Michael, nn Mike. (Yes, why we are two children of the mid-80s!) My name is a family name, after my father’s sister who passed away (she went by Sally). Both our middle names are our mothers’ maiden, which is a traditional special to us that we thought we’d continue, though it hasn’t happened in our picks thus far. My maiden name is She@n, pronounced Shee-h@n. Mike’s middle & his mother’s maiden is Un, a name with origins in China. We are from Catholic families (mine Irish, his Filipino) and as such, have some names that are very common to us that are off limits because we do. not. need. another. Patrick.

We feel pretty confident about our boy names: Oliver Hind3ry Am0s and Theodore Francis Am0s. Oliver is a name we discussed about in hushed tones and excitement the night we got engaged, when we spoke about our potential baby names for the first time. Hind3ry is my middle name, my mother’s maiden, and a side of the family that to which I am extremely close (much closer than to the She@n side). It would ‘sub’ for our maiden name tradition. Theodore (nn Teddy or Theo) is a name we are drawn to and in doing genealogy research, found out my husband’s great grandmother was named Teodora. Francis is my grandfather’s middle name, and he was such a special man that it’d be wonderful to have my son share part of his name. Putting the honor in the middle feels like a special secret between the generations.

Girls… enter the cold feet.

We had settled on Margaret Un Am0s. My mother and sister are both Margarets (Margie and Megie, respectively) and it’s a beloved but not overused name in my family. (Most, if not all, have gone by nicknames, including Peggy). Since it would be an honorific first name, I would not use my maiden or my middle name/mother’s maiden, as then it would be the exact name of either. (Bridge too far.) She would share a middle name with my husband and have matching initials, MUA, with him and her paternal grandmother. It’s good, right?

The hang-up with Margaret is the nickname. I had, for years, liked Molly for Margaret, even though I know it’s not traditional. (I’m blatantly stealing the nickname from Mary, but see Catholic roots above. No more Mary’s please!) But now I’m getting nervous. It feels so… cutsey. I think the “y” ending is throwing me. Can we have a Judge Molly? A President Molly? A Molly who walks into a boardroom of older men and is taken seriously? How much, if any, attention should we pay to the slight drug association? Many of the common nicknames of Margaret (Meg, Peg, Maggie, etc.) are off the table for various reasons. My husband has veto’d Greta. Is ‘Mim’ too out there as a possible nickname? On a scale of one to very, how desperate do I seem?

The other girl name is Audrey Amos. I do love this name, have a dear childhood friend as the only Audrey I know, & enjoy the alliteration since I was a Sarah She@n for so long, but we are stuck on the middle. Audrey She@n Am0s sounds so serious – I think? Hind3ry is too many “y’s”. Adelia is a family name from waaaay back and I do like it, but it just doesn’t feel as special as I have no ‘real’ personal connection to the ancient Adelia.

I have, in the past, liked more unisex names for girls, like Emerson and Addison, but they are not my husband’s cup of tea. I’d love to honor my grandmother, Wanda, but I just can’t with the Wanda.

We plan on having 3-4 children and unused names from this round will likely be future contenders.

I hope you have time to read my novella and share with your blog. I simply cannot think my way out of this one!

In your debt,
Sarah

The very reason many parents give for using a full name on the birth certificate is that the child then has something to fall back on later if the nickname is not serious enough. So for me, “Is Molly serious enough for future serious professions?” is not even a question that needs to be addressed: if it is not serious enough, she will be able to use Margaret. Judge Margaret, President Margaret, Margaret walking into the board room. No problem here.

The drug association, I also dismiss. It is fully possible that there are people whose first association with the name is drug-related, but I doubt this applies to a significant segment of the population. Even people who DO first associate the name Molly with drugs are surely also familiar with it as a girls’ given name, and so would not react as if you’d named your daughter Cocaine or Marijuana. Names such as Jack and John have far worse slang associated with them, and yet the names persevere.

A bigger concern for me is that you say all the usual nicknames for Margaret are off the table for one reason or another. Many children do go their entire lives using the nickname their parents selected—but many others choose a different nickname. However, maybe the nicknames are unavailable for reasons that your daughter will agree with, or maybe you mean they’re off the table as PLANNED choices but would be completely acceptable as just-came-about-on-their-own ones—things like, “My sister goes by Meg, and that would be confusing,” where it would not be the nickname you’d choose, but it would be completely fine if your 17-year-old Molly decided to be Meg when she started college.

You don’t specifically mention the nickname Daisy, though that may be included in “etc.” That one has some of the appeal of Molly, and seems like a particularly fun, Little-Womenesque choice in a family where there is also a Grandma Margaret and an Aunt Margaret.

Mim seems as connected to Margaret as Molly does, so I don’t see any reason you couldn’t use it—but I don’t see the advantage of using it instead of the nickname you prefer. One advantage of Molly is that a lot of people are confused about which seemingly unconnected traditional nicknames (Peg, Polly, Molly, Sally, Daisy, Jack) go with which full names, and my guess is that a fair number of people would think, “Oh, right, Molly is one of those seemingly-unconnected nicknames for Margaret”: I did it myself for a moment, and I’m more interested in names than the average person.

By the way, I like your whole concept of expanding the mother’s-maiden-name-as-middle-name tradition to include more maiden names. I think traditions end up being most pleasing and least burdensome when they’re FLEXIBLE. I think if I were you, I’d use a different family maiden name for each child—for the fun of it, and also to preserve as many family surnames as possible. Since the children will have their father’s surname, I’d be inclined to choose more names from your side of the family, but I wouldn’t be opposed to choosing an equal number from each side. (I would, however, be careful not to choose more from the father’s side.)
Audrey is also a great choice. I don’t think Audrey She@n Am0s is any more serious than Margaret Un Am0s, so that’s what I’d go with. Audrey Un Am0s seems like another good option. Or if you decide not to use maiden names for everyone’s middle, Audrey Frances would be a nice way to honor your grandfather. (But I’m very fond of the idea of a bunch of maiden names.)

I do think it’s most likely that this is cold feet rather than serious hesitation. Margaret and Audrey are both wonderful names with significance for you, and they go beautifully with Oliver and Theodore.

Name update!

Hi Swistle!

A quick update from the newborn haze: Margaret (Molly) Un Am0s made her way into the world on 11/09. The minute she landed on my chest she was a Molly; I just KNEW. (We didn’t even talk alternatives. After the difficult labor, my husband would have let me name her ‘Bob’ if I had wanted.) Thank you for all the thoughts, support, and wonderful nickname suggestions for Margaret. This blog and your readers are the best.

Cheers,
Sarah & Mol

Hi Swistle,

Help us please! My husband and I are unable to choose a name for our second daughter who is due October 6, 2014! We had front runners but then they got excluded for one reason or another. Our last name is Salvati (sal_vati), very Italian. I am of Hispanic origin and he is Italian and we live the Southwest so we wanted something ending in a vowel sound and off the beaten path but not so much so that you look at it and wonder who this person is. Our first child is Aliyah Marie. We have chosen Rose for the middle name because all of the names we like so far are kinda a mouthful.

The liked but dismissed names are
Selena Rose( I like but two daughters after dead singers?)
Zarina Rose( but she is currently a Disney fairy)
Alexa Rose( but then he decided it was too much like Axel Rose)

So we here we are with half a name and no place to go. Do you have any suggestions for our baby girl, sister to Aliyah? We may have another child but as of right now this one is most likely our last.

Thank you for considering our request
Monique

Alexa Rose has been eliminated for sounding like Axl Rose—but the name Rose seems to have been chosen only for its shortness/simplicity. Could Alexa be back on the list if you chose a different short/simple middle name? Alexa Joy, or Alexa Jane, or Alexa Kay, or Alexa Hope, or Alexa Grace? But Aliyah and Alexa are quite close in sound, so perhaps the name has too many strikes against it already to be salvaged through a changed middle name.

If you like Selena and Zarina, I wonder if you’d like Sabrina or Serena. They give a similar sound without the singer/fairy connections. Or perhaps Karina or Melina?

More possibilities:

Bianca (initials B.S.)
Briella (initials B.S.)
Callista
Chiara/Kiara
Clarissa
Mariella (a little difficult to say with the surname)
Mattea
Nadia
Oriana

Name update!

Hi Swistle,

I am so so so sorry it has taken me this long to send you a picture and update.

We choose Arya Rose Salvati, sister to Aliyah Marie Salvati. She was born Sept 26th ( my mom’s birthday) at 3:01am. She was 8lbs and 20 inches. Thank you so much for your help and your reader’s help. I very much appreciate it.

Thank you again.

Monique

Dear Swistle,

We have two girls — Lydi@ Jean (almost 5) and Eliz@ Anne (almost 2.5). Our last name is Trucker (without the first “r”). We’re expecting baby girl #3 the first week of November.

With our first, we came up with a list that we liked just from our brains. With our second, we looked through a baby name book and listed all of the names we liked (about 50!) and then we narrowed down from there. We went through several rounds, including one in which we picked our top 15 from a list of 30. We had exactly zero names in common. ZERO! We were down to about 5 when she was born. I think my husband was slightly traumatized by the whole natural birth experience (my first was a c-section). His defenses were low, so he just let me pick whatever I wanted. I did!

Both of our girls share the middle names of their grandmothers. Since this is our last baby, I wanted to include my husband’s (A@ron) name since we probably would have named a boy for him. We will likely go with “Erin.” I’m not too concerned with how the first name flows with the second since we call our kids just by their first name and random affectionate nicknames.

There are a lot of similarities of my older girls’ names:
— five letters
— three syllables
— ends in “a”
— I didn’t realize this until someone pointed it out, but they have the names of sisters in Pride and Prejudice (Lydia, Elizabeth) so there is always Mary, Kitty or Jane!

I am not stuck on any of these similarities as requirements for the third — and definitely not attached to the literary connection — but I do like the end in “a.” My husband, on the other hand, is not entirely sold on that. I’d also like to avoid the same first initial, but it isn’t a deal breaker.

My husband prefers names that don’t have natural nicknames — like Becca for Rebecca. Not sure why… Maybe he is jealous that his name doesn’t lend itself to a nickname? ;) Nicknames don’t bother me. Our daughters have traditionally feminine names, so a unisex name would probably not work.

Just for added interest, we have three nieces (Clar@, Ameli@ and Juli@).

We clearly have differing views on names. For example, my husband likes Keylee, Chloe, Cynthia and Natalie. I prefer names like Cordelia, Greta, Adalaide and Sylvia.

We started out this baby naming with a list of 40 names, mostly the ones from the 2nd baby list. We’ve gone through three elimination rounds.

Round 1: We said each name and each person decided yes, no or maybe. Two negatives meant it got crossed off. If it was no and maybe, the maybe person got to decide whether to keep it on the list.

Round 2: Each person listed his/her top ten. Any not making the cut were eliminated.

Round 3: Each person listed seven names they would like to remove from the list.

We’re down to the following, but I fear it might take us until labor and delivery to go through enough rounds to settle on a name we both like!

Alaina
Chloe
Camilla
Celia/Cecelia
Emmaline
Moira
Natalie
Rebecca
Sara

Any advice? Are we missing a great option? Or do you have suggestions for Round 4 elimination?!?!

Best,
Lis@ (figured I’d end with an ampersand for the “a” just for continuity — haha)

I love your elimination rounds. I think you’ve come up with a very nice list, and I think you could choose any of the names and be happy.

If I were narrowing it down myself and LOOKING for reasons to remove names, I might first take off Alaina: when I say it aloud, it seems very similar to Eliz@ (spelling it Elena makes what I’m hearing more visual).

I might take off Chloe for being a somewhat different style than the other two, and for being much more common. I might take off Natalie for similar reasons.

I might take off Emmeline because it repeats an initial.

This would leave me with:

Camilla
Celia
Moira
Rebecca
Sara

Perhaps next I would remove Moira for being tricky to pronounce/spell, and Sara for the continual hassle of -a vs. -ah. It’s not that these are big deals (the continual hassle of Kristen/Kristin hasn’t made me wish I had a different name), just that I’d be looking for ways to pare down the list. This would leave me with:

Camilla
Celia
Rebecca

Your husband doesn’t like easy nicknames, so I would probably take Rebecca off at this point. Maybe Camilla, too: Cam, Cammie, and Millie all come easily to mind when I picture using that name on a daily basis.

This leaves me with Celia. I admit being drawn to it for symmetry in addition to the other reasons, such as going well with your style and not going against any of your preferences. I love that then all three girls would have five letters, three syllables, and end in -a; that just seems fun to me. Plus, I love the name Celia and I think it fits very well with the other two, and I think it’s great with your surname. I just like it best overall: although I did this post in elimination style to match the theme, my actual process was to read the list and say “Oooh, Celia! That’s my definite favorite!”

Another 5-letter, 3-syllable name ending in -a is Fiona. I love that one, too.

If you wanted to deliberately break the theme, I might suggest Cecily and Cora and Alice.

Let’s see the commenters’ elimination rounds!

Name update!

As suspected, we waited until we were actually in labor and delivery on October 29 to decide our daughter’s name. I loved all of the comments and suggestions from readers. I was so tempted to go with Nora after several people pointed out that it is Aaron spelled backwards. But we agreed on Celia Erin. I am so happy with her name! Thanks for your help!