Hi Swistle,
I’m a long time reader of your blog and planned to write in for help with my daughter, but ended up not needing it – because of you! I was introduced to her name (Carys) on your blog about a month before I got pregnant. It tugged at my heart and, by some miracle, DH liked it too. Even after saying it a million times over the last 3 years, I still feel a little jolt of excitement every time. And the name fits her perfectly – she’s spunky, frills-free, and beautiful inside and out (so far, anyway). It’s hard to compete with all that!
I think I need you this time. I’m having a BOY and am due in May. I know that’s a long way off, but boy names are impossible and I need time to “try on” all of the finalists for a little while. This is definitely our last planned child.
First, IF we can’t come up with anything else, he will likely be named Rich@rd J0$eph 0$term@n, 4th (sounds like Austermun). It’s a strong name, but there are problems with it. Most importantly, I’ve hated the name Richard since I met my first one at age 8. I’ve also known more Richards than any other name. DH goes by Eric (thankfully!) because his mom didn’t like it either and he’s always been annoyed by the disconnect between the names. Upon finding out his real name, EVERYONE asks why he goes by Eric (it’s a complete coincidence that they have the same root). Thus, he refuses to do the same to his son. I proposed we call him Joseph, but DH doesn’t like it. So, we’re left with RJ, which DH and MIL think sounds “down country” or whatever. DH doesn’t have strong feelings about using the name as he barely feels like it’s actually his name, but I’m sure we’ll get some pressure from FIL once we tell him it’s a boy (DH is the ONLY boy in his generation on either side of his family).
Because I’m a name nerd, I presented DH with a list of almost 200 names that I would be willing to consider, which I’d narrowed down from the 2013 SSA file of names used at least 5 times. DH eliminated more than half right away, including several of my favorites (Aidric, Clark, Cedric, Dashiell, Everett, Wesley) and then I eliminated more that I didn’t actually want to consider and we are left with a list of possible new favorites (at least for me and he hasn’t objected). It seems, however, that I have some sort of issue with each name…
Miles: it’s a distance measurement and I have a FB friend with an infant son named Miles – seems trendy
Theodore (Theo): not crazy about the meaning – we aren’t all that religious, also seems trendy
Alexander (I want to call him Alec, DH prefers Alex): the polar opposite of popularity and nn potential from Carys, which seems unbalanced
Elliot: seems trendy and Carys’ best friend at daycare has a little brother named Elliot. I’m not friendly with her mom, but it seems weird – although this leads to a cute story about Carys saying for a long time that she wanted her own Elliot
James (James): again, the polar opposite on popularity from Carys
Zachary: there are a couple in Carys’ classroom
Calvin (sometimes Cal): not sure Calvin 0$term@n has good flow, don’t like that it ends with -n
Evan: not sure it flows with 0$term@n, and I know a few little ones
Russell (sometimes Russ): reminds me of Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, though not really in a bad way (I thought Little Russ was cute when I was a kid); might be too stuffy?
Garrett: Carys and Garrett are too similar with their dominant sounds
Simon: same issues as Calvin
Even though he hasn’t gone so far as to say it, I think these are DH’s additional favorites: Dorian, Graham, Malcolm, Cullen (he had forgotten about Twilight and may have changed his mind after being reminded), Conrad, Caspian. I’m surprised by these, but he probably only likes them because they are connected to some video game or fantasy character.
I can’t figure out if meaning is important to me. It was with Carys, but only because I already loved the name. Felicity was our 2nd choice for her and I always thought it would be neat to name a 2nd daughter named Felicity so I could have “love” and “happiness” – cheesy, but adorable. I’m not sure if we would have gone with Felicity this time had he been a girl. We tried not to discuss names before finding out the sex.
I noticed after saying both names together a lot, that Eric and Carys have very similar sounds and it might be nice to get a name that has some sort of connection to my name (Michelle), which is one reason I like Dashiell. However, this is not that important in the end.
Middle name options are Richard or Kn0wle$ (my maiden name). Carys’ mn is Elizabeth after my MIL. I think I’d rather use Kn0wle$ to give a nod to my family, but it’s cumbersome with 0$term@n. Also, Richard seems so obvious because it gets 3 specific (and worthy) people.
I had been hoping to be able to find something as rare as Carys but not strange, just beautiful and interesting. Once people get that her name is Carys and not Cara or Carries, they love it. Unfortunately, DH eliminated my preferred rarities and I’m not sure I can handle his.
I guess I’m looking for help with arguments for and against these names and for advice on what works best with Carys. I’m also open to other suggestions, but feel like I’ve seen almost everything since I’m familiar with the entire SSA list.
Thanks for reading!
This is one of those opinions that’s really easy to give from a safe location outside the situation, but here it is anyway: if you hate the name Richard, and if your husband doesn’t care if he has a namesake or not and doesn’t like any nicknames/alternates for the name, then Richard should not be the default name. In fact, if I were you I would rule it out decisively right this minute. If necessary, your husband should go have a frank talk with his dad right now, so that the joy of your son’s birth is not compromised by anyone feeling shocked disappointment. It sounds like your father-in-law is the only one who wants this (though your mother-in-law may have a feeling of “Crud, why did I have to go through with that if the tradition was just going to die out anyway??”), and his vote is not strong enough to carry the day here. Scratch it off the list, I say! Scratch it off! End this silly tradition that is only being done because it’s a tradition and not because anyone wants the name! You are at least the second generation of mother who didn’t like the name. The tradition will end eventually anyway, and it might as well be with you guys.
Whew. Swistle should perhaps apply a little lavender oil to her temples until she can regain distance and perspective. She is getting a little bossy.
Ahem. What were we saying? Oh, yes: we were looking for a non-Richard name for this little boy. The next thing I’d consider is whether your husband’s family would appreciate having the blow softened, or not. Some families would feel a little better if you named the child Joseph, or gave him the middle names Richard Joseph (or just Richard), or gave him the initials R. J. but with different names (such as Russell James). Other families would feel that was insult added to injury. I think my own favorite, for a family that would feel better rather than worse, would be to choose a first name you love and then use Richard Joseph for the two middle names: ________ Richard Joseph 0$term@n. That way you get the entire Family Name, just with one part added (the new first name) and one part removed (the number at the end). It’s not The Same, but it’s Something.
Another possibility is to use a DIFFERENT male family namesake. The original Richard Joseph has been extensively honored at this point, as has his son, so now we could give someone else a turn. Your mother-in-law’s father? Your father? Either of the baby’s other grandfathers? A brother or uncle? This shows you’re not breaking a tradition of family honor, you’re just giving someone else a share of it.
Another fun possibility to consider, if it works with the first name choice, is to give your son the name Eric as his middle name: not your husband’s given name, but the name your husband feels is his name—and probably the name he would in fact have been given if your mother-in-law and father-in-law weren’t following a tradition.
This makes it fun to consider the name Leo, so that his first name and his initials would be the same. I also think Leo is very nice with Carys. Leo Eric 0$term@n; Carys and Leo.
Or perhaps these sorts of ideas won’t work for your husband’s family, or won’t work with the names you’d like to use, in which case we’re starting from scratch. You’ve done such careful research already, I’m reluctant to make suggestions: it seems like anything I’d suggest, you’d have already thought of. However, we’ve noticed before on this blog that sometimes hearing the idea supported by others can make a difference.
For example, if you like Miles, but you don’t like that it’s also a noun and also the name of a Facebook friend’s baby, I wonder if you’d like Milo? Perhaps you long since eliminated Milo for other reasons. But I love it with Carys. Milo Eric 0$term@n; Carys and Milo.
I don’t worry very much about name meanings. I suppose I might hesitate if a name meant something very unpleasant, but many, many names have been assigned religious meanings I don’t bat an eye at. People who ARE religious may get extra satisfaction out of using those names, but I don’t worry that anyone will think those meanings were intended. My own name means Christian, and yet I don’t feel as if anyone I met would think that was on purpose, or that it would communicate anything about my religious preferences.
Both Theodore and Miles are in style, but neither one seems trendy to me: they’re both doing the thing names with long histories do, where they come gently in and out of style with the years.
I think if you were having a daughter and considering the name Isabella, I might have concerns about the popularity/nickname gap between that name and the name Carys. For a sibling of the other sex, it doesn’t bother me at all. Many people have different styles for boy names and girl names, so if I met a Carys and an Alexander-called-Xan (or whatever), I wouldn’t think it was odd. A bigger hesitation for me is that the two of you prefer different nicknames. Some couples can work around that, and others can’t.
I feel the same way about the popularity of James: Carys and James seems like a perfectly reasonable sibling set to me. I like it.
I think of Isaac as “the next Zachary.” Isaac 0$term@n; Carys and Isaac.
Elliot goes into the Theodore/Miles category for me: not trendy, just a name with a long history having another turn being in style. I think the connection to Carys’s best friend’s brother is sweet.
Or would you like Emmett?
While I generally prefer to avoid repeated endings, I think it’s significantly different when there are different numbers of syllables. If your name were 0$tm@n, I might feel like Evan 0$tm@n and Simon 0$tm@n and Calvin 0$tm@n were a little choppy (though still okay to use). Because your surname instead has three syllables, I think it gives the name a nice tied-together sound, and I like all three name possibilities.
Russell stands out to me as an excellent choice with Carys. It has a similar level of unexpectedness yet familiarity, which seems like it’s one of your preferences. Plus, it sounds a little like your name, which would be fun because of the Carys/Eric thing. I know a Russell the same age as one of my kids, and his name has struck me again and again as being very usable and pleasing.
I’d also take Graham and Malcolm from your husband’s unofficial list. They too have that nice combination of unexpected and familiar.
Another option to sound somewhat like your name would be Mitchell. It looks quite a bit like Michelle, but the sounds are quite different. Mitchell 0$term@n; Carys and Mitchell.
I think you have a great list, and that at this point I’d suggest letting all the names simmer for awhile. Maybe do some ranking games, where you and your husband each pick your five favorites, for example, or each put the names in order from top to bottom and see if any of the names can be eliminated. Spend a day concentrating on one particular name, and see how it feels to you: do you find yourself trying to find reasons not to use it, or do you find yourself feeling very reluctant to cross it off the list, or just what? Go down the list as if you’re going to cross each one off in turn, and note which ones you don’t really mind crossing off, and which ones give you heart-pangs. Find some pictures of babies online, and try the names on them like little outfits. I think of every name in the world as having at least one issue, so it may also help to go down the list and see which issues bother you more, and which ones bother you less.
I remember when Paul and I were naming Henry, that was when we had our longest list of “These are all good but none are the obvious leader” names. We narrowed it down to seven, and I spent a lot of times playing games with the names. I put the list on the wall next to my desk, so my eyes could drift to it. After awhile, some names just floated to the top and some just sank to the bottom: I’d notice that every time we discussed them, there were a few that we really did like, but that those few NEVER came out ahead of the others. Eventually we got the list down to two names, then added one more, then finally had our winner—but I think we would have been happy with either of the other two finalists, too.
There’s also some chance your husband would come around to some of the favorites he eliminated before, which could make the decision clearer.
Name update!
Carys’ little brother showed up on May 21. After trying several times to make lists and discuss what we wanted, nothing persented as “the one” and we basically stopped talking about it until the very end. We did know all along what it would be, but couldn’t commit. Every time I brought it up, my husband would suggest alternatives like Helveticus (super helpful).
We settled on Alexander (Alec) Kn0wle$. It’s a compromise to have the formal name, but call him Alec instead of Alex. It turns out that Alexander is a family name – my great great and great great great grandfathers were Alexander. They also happened to be Scottish, which helps tie in our nn choice. I love it when these things work out without even trying (we found out after naming Carys that DH’s family has Welsh ancestry).
Another bonus, I haven’t had to spell it for anyone yet – a nice change from Carys.
