Hi Swistle,

I’m writing on behalf of my sister and brother-in-law (with their permission, of course). I’ve been reading your blog for years and know you can help.

They are expecting their second daughter in July and are struggling to find a name they both like. Their first daughter’s name is Harvest and she often goes by Harvee. Harvest’s name has special meaning to them and they love it because it is very unique. Their last name rhymes with Tanley.

They would prefer another name that is as uncommon as Harvest. My BIL strongly does not want a name that appears on the Social Security list. They would love another name that starts with H, but it isn’t an absolute. A fun nickname is also important to them and they like words repurposed as names (like Harvest).

They have only really come up with three possible names, but can’t agree on them.

Haven – my sister’s favorite and has special meaning to them, but my BIL says it is too common
Holland – my BIL’s favorite, but my sister hates the nickname Holly and thinks it would be unavoidable
Henley – they both like, but it is too sing-songy with their last name

Please help, Swistle! My niece needs a name!

By “the Social Security list,” I will assume your brother-in-law means the Top 1000, rather than the entire list.

The most fun option to me was finding a repurposed H word, so that’s where I started. In fact, I spent a highly enjoyable 45 minutes or so going through the entire H section of the dictionary with William (14) and Elizabeth (9). I recommend this activity: not only do you create a list of actual candidates, it is surprising how long it continues to be fun/funny to call out the non-candidates: “Hyperbole!” one of us would say; “Perfect!” another would reply. “Honeybee!” “Hedgehog!” “Helicopter!” “Hydrochloric!” We all ended up in very good moods.

Here’s what we got in 45 minutes:

Halcyon; Harvest and Halcyon; Harvee and Hallee
Happen; Harvest and Happen; Harvee and Happy (William votes no on this)
Harmonic; Harvest and Harmonic; Harvee and Nicki
Heliotrope; Harvest and Heliotrope; Harvee and Leo
Henna; Harvest and Henna; Harvee and Hennie (would likely be confused with Hannah)
Heritage; Harvest and Heritage; Harvee and Harry
Heron; Harvest and Heron; Harvee and Harry
Hickory; Harvest and Hickory; Harvee and Kory
Homily; Harvest and Homily; Harvee and Millie
Honesty; Harvest and Honesty; Harvee and Nessie
Horizon; Harvest and Horizon; Harvee and ?
Hyacinth; Harvest and Hyacinth; Harvee and Hydie/Heidi
Hydrangea; Harvest and Hydrangea; Harvee and Hydie/Heidi

My favorites are Heron, Homily, Honesty, and Hyacinth.

And here are the ones we considered but then decided not to put on the list: Halo is a pretty sound, but the associations with angels and video games seem tough to handle. Harbor seemed good, and can be a synonym for Haven, but it’s probably too similar to Harvest, and I couldn’t think of a good nickname (Harby sounds too much like Harvee and Harpy). Harken had possibility (similar to the name Larkin), but again shares an entire first syllable with Harvest, and the nickname Hark seems harsh (and at our house, would lead to endless jokes: “Hark! It’s time for dinner!” “Hark! I see your shoes!”). Harlequin is pretty, but seems too steeped in meaning/symbolism; same with Harrow. Harmonica and Harpsichord might be too silly. Harp might be confused with the much more popular Harper, and the nickname seems like it might be the unfortunate Harpy. Hasten shares so many letters with Harvest, and I couldn’t think of a good nickname, and also I found that when I see it as a name I suddenly have trouble pronouncing it (it looks similar to Kristen). Heartily could be pretty, but a little sing-song with the surname; we also liked Hearten and Heartland, but the nickname Heart has an unfortunate crude rhyme. Helix sounds name-like, but also sounds like “he licks.” Holiday seems perfect, but has the nickname Holly.

The strategy we used today is the same strategy I’d recommend for adding non-H names to their list. The dictionary makes a daunting baby name book, but the H section went surprisingly quickly once we got into it.

[Edited to add: Trying to go to sleep tonight and thinking about this question, I thought of the name Orchard, nickname Orrie. Or Starling. Or Spring.]

Name update!

Hi Swistle,

My sister and brother-in-law welcomed Haven Elizabeth to the family in June.  They took everyone’s comments to heart and we had such a good time going through all of the suggestions the post generated.  In the end, they were encouraged that Haven isn’t too common; it became the front runner due to the special meaning for their family.  The name fits her perfectly and nothing is sweeter than hearing big sister Harvest talk about Baby Haven.  Thanks for all of the help!  Attached is a picture.

Thanks,
Brittany

Ok here’s the deal…
Our last name is T!lt – not a love for me but chose the guy, not the name.
We have a 3.5 year old daughter – Molly Cutler (goes by Molly)
And a 1.5 year old son –
Thatcher O’Shea (goes by Thatch/ Thatchy/Thatcher)
Baby No. 3 will be here on our anniversary! – Oct 21st – and we aren’t finding out the gender.
I’ve heard your advice ab thinking of potential sibling names when picking your first baby name and well… I didn’t. I broke a cardinal rule of adorable sibling sets by changing genres (I’m as irritated by this as anyone) however independently I LOVE their names.
We are pretty set on the boy name – Shepherd O’Shea. Feels similar to Thatcher to me. Good nickname, occupation name in a “nonobvious” way.

It’s the girl name that’s giving me anxiety.
We will use Cutler again as a middle – perhaps odd I know.

I love the name Maggie and would absolutely use it however my husband had a childhood dog named Maggie so he’s not 100%

Everly – I love it but rising popularity bothers me
Halsey
Linden
Greer
I worry that these names are odd for a girl whose sister has such an obviously girly name.

For whatever it’s worth my husband is Michael and I am Cassidy and we are… Stumped.
Help us pls!

Looking at the list of four finalists and imagining what I’d GUESS if I saw the names with no other cues, I’d guess:

Everly: girl
Halsey: not sure at all
Linden: girl
Greer: girl

In order of perceived femininity, which is very very subjective:

Everly
Linden
Greer
Halsey

I had a little trouble ranking Linden and Greer: I’ve only encountered Greer as a girl’s name, while I’ve only encountered Lyndon as a boy name and haven’t heard of any girls named Linden, so Greer seems more obviously GIRL to me. And yet the look and sound of Linden seems more FEMININE to me; and although I’ve only encountered female Greers, I know it can be used for boys (60 new baby girls and 18 new baby boys in 2013). So I went back and forth about how to put them in order.

I looked it up just now, and Linden is even more unisex than I thought. In 2013, the Social Security Administration reports 65 new baby girls and 53 new baby boys named Linden. (The spelling Lyndon adds another 17 new baby girls and 136 new baby boys; the spelling Lynden adds 33 new baby girls and 28 new baby boys.)

Halsey is interesting. It’s not a name I’ve ever encountered, and it’s not in the Social Security Administration’s data base at all for 2013. It reminds me of names such as Haley and Kelsey, so it should strike me as Girl—but something about it is throwing me off. It could be the Hal, but that doesn’t catch me with Haley. It could be that it makes me think of Halston, a male designer. It seems like a surname, so I think that makes me want to put it with the name Thatcher. But if I picture the name Halsey on a boy, it doesn’t seem quite right, so I think if I had a longer time to look at the name I’d ultimately guess girl. I think pronunciation will be a larger concern: Hal to rhyme with pal, or with ball, or with pail? and then is it -see or -zee? My first guess was Hal-like-hall and sey-like-zee: HALL-zee.

If I were choosing purely on the basis of which name seemed most feminine to me, I would choose Everly. Despite the Everly Brothers, the name hits my ear as entirely feminine, like Evelyn and Beverly. The current usage is entirely girl: the Social Security Administration reports 804 new baby girls with the name in 2013; it’s not in the data base at all for boys.

You rebuke yourself for changing name styles between Molly and Thatcher, but I think those are very compatible in a sibling set. I prefer not to change styles between two brothers (Thatcher and then, say, Andrew, or Billy), but having different styles for the boys and the girls in a family seems just fine. I would still avoid clashes, or styles that seemed to say something about differing expectations (girls named Poppy, Trixie, and Lulu with brothers named Theodore, Everett, and Sebastian), but I think the names Molly and Thatcher go very nicely together, and wouldn’t have thought of it as changing styles. And I think your choice of the name Shepherd shows a consistent style for boy names.

For girl names, one thing you have going for you is that Molly is a name that goes with a lot of styles. I had trouble thinking of a clash example for the previous paragraph. Molly and Everly are different styles (one traditional/early-American and the other modern/surname), and yet I don’t think they clash per se. They feel similarly energetic and neither of them seem overly girly-girl.

Molly and Linden, Molly and Greer—those both seem fine too. It’s a style/popularity change, but not a style clash. I think Molly and Greer makes a great sister pair: I like how they both have double letters, and they’re both five letters long. Molly and Linden strikes me favorably, too: definitely a change in style, but I don’t get the “off” feeling I get with, say, sisters named Clarissa and Cameron, which feels like the set-up for a sitcom about a princess and a tomboy.

I feel less sure about Halsey, but I think that’s because I feel less sure of the name overall. If it’s a family surname, I would think it a far better choice than if it’s a modern invented name.

I also like Everly best with the surname. Everly T!lt. Linden T!lt. Halsey T!lt. Greer T!lt.

Because you like Maggie, though, I wonder if we could find something you like that’s closer in style to Molly. My first association is with early American names, and with names that used to be nicknames (Molly was a nickname for Mary) but are now also/primarily stand-alone names. Names such as:

Betsy
Daisy
Eliza
Ginny
Katie
Kay
Libby
Lily
Lucy
Maisy
Mandy
Milly (not with Molly)
Mindy
Nancy
Nora
Polly (not with Molly)
Sadie
Sally
Tessie

But I don’t at all think the name needs to be “nicknamey”: Molly has been stand-alone for so long, many people don’t even know it used to be a nickname. So I’d add a ton of full names to the list: Abigail, Clara, Anna, Violet, Charlotte, Phoebe, Hannah, anything from the vintage revival category. I suspect, though, that most of these are too popular for your tastes.

I wonder if you’d like the name Darcy? It seems similar to Molly, but it’s not common at all: not even in the Top 1000 for 2013. Darcy T!lt; Molly, Thatcher, and Darcy.

Or Delaney? Surnamey like Thatcher and Shepherd, but feminine. Delaney T!lt; Molly, Thatcher, and Delaney.

Linley has some of the sound of Linden, but currently used only for girls. Linley T!lt; Molly, Thatcher, and Linley.

Name update!

Just remembered I owned you an update as I was nursing the newest and decided click over and read your blog…
The baby came early! On October 12, 2015 Shepherd O’Shea T!lt joined us and our hearts – and hands! – are overflowing!
Thank you to you and your readers for pointing out things we hadn’t noticed with the potential names!

Hi Swistle!
I’ve been reading your blog since I was pregnant with my son who is about to turn four! When we started talking about having our third child, I knew we would have to enlist your help! Choosing names is really hard for us because it’s difficult to find one we can see ourselves saying a hundred times a day!

Our last name sounds like SO-fee-oh, my name is Jackie and my husband is Anthony. We have two children and I’m pregnant with our third and last, a boy, due mid-April.

We have a son named Ian Thomas. We chose Ian because it was a classy name that hadn’t had a surge in popularity lately. Timeless in a way, but not boring like other names you hear constantly. His middle name is his great grandfather’s name and also his father’s middle name. Our daughter is named Reagan Caroline. We liked Reagan because it had just enough spunk with plenty of sweetness. Her middle name is a combination of my mother’s name, Linda Carol. This baby’s middle name will most likely be Jack; as I am named after my grandfather, Jack.

So all that to say, in the very last days before our children were born, we picked the only name that we liked saying over and over and also that seemed like a person who would be in our family. It was a coincidence that they both ended in -an. Now it seems like -an names look best with the other two. I’d at least like an “n” sound in there somewhere I think.

My husband is very particular with names, but he doesn’t give much criteria on why he likes a name or not, only that it doesn’t seem like his son! So it’s been tricky to come up with names that he likes.

We will have a few names that are on the “like” list, but after a few weeks of thinking about it they get crossed off for one reason or another.

Names that we both still like:
Colson – I like it a little more than my husband does. Interesting name, but there are several ways to spell it. Is it too similar to the popular Colton and would get mistaken?

Kellan – Husband likes it a little more than I do. I know it’s a boys name, but the Kell beginning reminds me of Kelly, even though Kelly is not popular for girls at all anymore. Also, when said quickly to me it sounds very similar to “kill him” so that’s not great. But it does match our other kids’ names very nicely.

Simon – a new name to the list. Classic but unique, just not sure if we can get passed the “nerdy” connection that the name seems to carry. Also, since our last name starts with an S I’m not sure if it’s too similar to Simon Says. But it is a nice name.

I like the name Anderson but my husband isn’t a big fan. I don’t like that’s it’s three syllables and a very strong surname still. We generally try to stay away from three syllable names because they get nicknamed very quickly, which we aren’t a big fan of.

Names that are out because of close friends or family: Logan, Declan, Brayden, Nathan, Landon, Jameson, Hudson, Benjamin, Corbin, Gavin

Names crossed off the list for various reasons:
Carson – we’ve only met girls with this name now
Owen – too close to Ian
Jackson or Carter – presidential connection with our daughter’s name
Connor, Xander, Leland, Evan, Colton, Lachlan and Dawson are all names my husband dislikes
Colin – can’t get passed that it sounds like call-in’

So the perfect name for us would be: clearly a boys name, spelled only one way generally, have an N in it, two syllables – That’s the perfect list but we know we may need to compromise!
I’d appreciate any advice you or your readers can give! Please help!

Thank you!
Jackie

I think we are up to this challenge. If, however, the post and comments prove to be unhelpful and you are right back where you started, I suggest going back to your original selection criteria: a name you like saying over and over, and that seems like a person in your family. It will be fun to look for a name with a N, and two syllables, and only one standard spelling—but those three preferences seem much less important than the other two, especially with a picky husband and a long list of rejected/unusable names, and they may be why you’re stuck. I looked at name after name that failed at least one of those preferences; when I get that “solving a logic puzzle” feeling, I’m likely to advise paring down the PREFERENCES list instead of continuing to pare down the NAME list.

My first and favorite suggestion is Calvin. It has two syllables, it has the N, it has one standard spelling, it’s clearly a boy name, it’s timeless but not boring—and yet it isn’t too similar to Ian or Reagan and, other than the N, has completely different sounds. It also reminds me of some of your other options (Kellan, Colson, Gavin, Colin). Calvin Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Calvin.

My next suggestion is Quentin. Two syllables, N, standard spelling, clearly a boy name, timeless but not boring—plus super-cool initial. Quentin Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Quentin.

Henry may be too familiar now for your tastes, but I like the way it fits many of the other preferences, and I like the way the position of the N reduces the matchiness of the set. Henry Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Henry.

Finn is only one syllable, but coordinates visually with the length of the name Ian. It may be too much F with the surname, and may not work if you do decide to use Jack as the middle name (perhaps Jackson would work instead). Finn Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Finn.

Oh, I think I like Griffin better, and that’s two syllables and reduces the F problem. Griffin Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Griffin.

Malcolm has no N, but the M and N letters/sounds are similar, and the style goes well with Ian. Malcolm Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Malcolm.

Similar to Kellan is Kieran. It removes the Kelly/Ellen issue (though by substituting a Kiera issue), and also the “kill him” issue (though I don’t hear that when I say it). Kieran Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Kieran.

Corin may be too similar to the Corbin you can’t use—but if not, it’s a nice way to get Colin without the call-in. Corin Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Corin.

If it is too similar, perhaps Torin.

Or wait, Tobin. Tobin Sofeeoh; Ian, Reagan, and Tobin.

But my top choice is still Calvin. I love it, and it solves the logic puzzle.

Name update!

We loved your idea of Calvin and were almost settled on it but decided to wait until he was born to make the final call. We thought about his name for a few hours after he was born and decided to take your original advice of finding a name that we wanted to say and that fit in our family. I’d like to announce that we named our son Kellan Jack. It seems to fit him perfectly, and also compliments our other kids’ names nicely. Thank you so much for you and your readers’ help, it gave us a way to think about the names differently.
-Jackie

Hi there!

I’ve been reading your blog for years, long before marriage and kids. My husband and I will be welcoming our first child in July. We will not be finding out the sex of our child prior to delivery.

My husband’s name is Karl, and his father is Carl. My name is Maribelle (pronounced like the Spanish Maribel or phonetically Ma-ree-bell in English.) Our child’s and my husband’s last name sounds like Tolland without the T.

If we have a girl we plan to name her one of the following names:

Mariana
Marielena
Mariella

We firmed our girl names rather quickly as it is a family tradition to name girls with an M name in my family, and my husband was quick to jump on board. We feel the girls names we have selected work in English, Spanish, and Italian- the three languages spoken in our home.

Now, for boy names we can’t agree decide. We are struggling to come up with boys names we both like.

My husband wants a Karl-like name that isn’t Carl or Karl. I want to incorporate my dad’s very Hispanic name Jaime (Hi-me) into our potential son’s name but not necessarily as a first name. Ideally the name would also sound good in Italian and Spanish but at this point those requirements aren’t too high on my list.

My husband likes only the following names which I dislike for one reason or another but mostly because I already mentally associate someone in my life with them and/or find the name too Hispanic.

Charles
Carlos

I like the following names and my husband strongly dislikes them.

Lucas (he has agreed to using it as a middle name)
James (similar to Jaime)
Carlson or Karlson
Claudio
Gabriel (our niece is Aubrielle and he feels this would be too matchy)

I have searched exhaustedly for different variations of Carl or a name that sounds remotely similar to satisfy my husband to no avail.

Can you suggest some boys names that may satisfy his desire to have a son named Karl without being Karl, sound good with a last name similar to Tolland but without the T, and potentially is well suited with the middle name Lucas?

Thanks a million,
Maribelle

The only other options I can think of are Carlo and Carlton; I’m hoping commenters will have more ideas.

Oh, another possibility would be a double name, such as John-Carl or James-Carlos.

I wonder if there is any way you could come around to the name Charles. It depends, of course, on your particular association with the name. But sometimes associations can be weakened: one way is to dilute it by finding a whole bunch more people with the name:

Charles Babbage
Charles Barkley
Charles Darwin
Charles Dickins
Charles Lindbergh
Charles Schulz

And so on.

It’s one of the hardest things in baby-naming, I think, when a strong preference (in this case, for a Karl-like name) doesn’t result in any names the parents particularly like or can agree on. At this point, the search for The Name That Satisfies the Preference and Also We Both Love It is very likely a search that’s going to leave you stuck in a never-ending loop. Instead it comes down to weighing the merits of two incompatible preferences: do you want to go with the preference for a Karl-like name, or do you want to go with the preference for a name you both like? Hardest of all will be if the two of you disagree on which preference should take precedence.

One possibility for compromise is this: if your husband is getting his way on a Karl-like name, perhaps he could be more open to your suggestions of how to get there. It seems as if right now he wants the Karl-like name AND he wants it to be only a name from his two-name list. Carlson seems like the best possibility for a name that would please both parents: he gets a Karl-like name, and you get a name you like. If he really can’t tolerate Carlson, and you really can’t tolerate Charles or Carlos, it may be time to concede defeat. Perhaps Carl/Karl/Charles/Carlos could be used as a middle name instead.

Name update!

Hi Swistle!

After more than 72 hours of labor, choosing a name didn’t seem as difficult as it once was for my husband and me. We recently welcomed a boy to our family and named him Lucas Carl which satisfied both my husband and my preferences. So far we haven’t had too many problems with pronunciation in any of three languages spoken by our friends and families.

Thanks again to you and all your followers for your suggestions as they were instrumental in helping my husband switch from “must have Karl like first name” to maybe it’s better as a second name.

Dear Swistle,

I’ve enjoyed your blogs for years, though I’d never pictured myself needing to write to you for baby-naming help until my husband and I started talking more seriously about names when we found out we were pregnant with our first (and probably only) this fall. He had plenty of girl names that he loved, but exactly ZERO boy names that he even liked (he briefly considered the name Vaughn when he saw it somewhere, but that passed, and I wasn’t a fan), and none of the many boy names that I suggested sounded any good to him either. So when we had the option of finding out our baby’s sex when we did one of the non-invasive cell-free fetal DNA blood tests at 10 weeks we agreed we wanted to know so that we could either give up on looking at boy’s names or buckle down and find some. And we learned that we’re expecting a boy!

After a couple months of looking for new names and lobbying for ones that my husband initially shot down that I still like and think work well with our last name (Henry, Calvin, Paul, Peter, Ian, Lloyd, Grant), asking friends and family for fresh ideas, etc, I’ve found ONE new name that has caught our eyes: Asher. When I first found it on a list of names from the Bible (we’re not religious, but I know there are lots of names in there) I had no idea it had made lists of “top” or “most-searched” baby names recently (yours is the only baby-naming blog I follow, and I was never looking for a most-popular-type name so those were not the sort of lists I’d been searching for). When we realized we should pay more attention to the SSA’s list, we were both shocked to find out some of the names that we thought of as uncommon that are actually top-10 names right now, like Liam. We have a few friends with kids but most are child-free, so we don’t know a ton of babies right now, and we’re reluctant to ask our friends about how much they’re seeing the name Asher around here (Chicago area), as we’d like to keep the baby’s name under wraps until he’s born. We don’t want to pick a name that will be very popular very briefly and then sound very dated, so we wouldn’t want to use Asher if we find out in May that it skyrocketed to the Top 10 last year, but our son is due in June and I don’t want to be falling in love with this name for him for the next few months and then have to switch gears and scramble for another option a few weeks before he’s born, so I’d really like to have at least one more name on our list soon. I know you are not interested in trying to predict the future popularity of a name, but you’re so aware of trends and have seen how names on these most-searched lists have gone before, so I hope you could consider this opportunity to 1. address the trendiness of the name Asher and 2. help us find at least one more name that we somehow haven’t found yet.

My husband is David/Dave, I’m R3n3 (yes, with only one e after the n, my parents had no idea they were giving me a masculine name, it was the early 70’s and they thought they were being creative by putting one e at the end instead of two; they actually also put an apostrophe after the e on my birth certificate/Social Security card and my family continues to use the apostrophe to this day, though I dropped it in my 20’s). Because he has a common name, he’s turned off by names like Henry/Peter/Paul because he thinks of them as too common (I’ve pointed out that a kid named Paul today would never encounter as many Pauls as Dave (born in the early 70’s) encounters Daves; he also has another reason to not want Paul so it’s definitely out, but he still uses the too-common reason against Henry). Because I’ve had to deal with an uncommon, wrong-gender name, with an apostrophe at the end of it (and I won’t even get into the pairing of that with my very unusual and difficult to spell/pronounce Polish maiden name), I’m drawn to names that are easily recognizable as (in this case boy) names and have only one expected spelling. Asher is actually an outlier for me, but there is something about it that I am really liking, and it is the only name my husband likes (though he is also now on the fence about Calvin).

Our only other rules are that names that end in an s sound unfortunately don’t work with $utherl@and (ie Curtis, Felix), and all B names are out because of the initials BS. Ideally we wouldn’t use a name that starts with D or R, since we do like to use our initials, but as hard as it is to find a name at this point, that would not be a deal-breaker. Something about Calvin doesn’t sound perfect with the last name (maybe the EN/IN sound at the end with the AN sound in the last name?), the names that sound best to me have one or two syllables and totally different sounds from what’s in our last name, but at this point I’m trying to make as few rules as possible. We have no family names we want to use. I like John but we have too many adults in our life with that name, friends have used Jude and Oscar so those are out, other friends have chosen such unusual names that I’m not even worried you’ll suggest them. We’ll choose a middle name after we have a first name, might go with Michael (for a dear friend of mine who passed), but finding our kid a first name is our primary concern.

Thanks for reading, we’d really appreciate your and your readers’ help, and we promise to send an update with a photo as soon as the baby is born!

R.

Oh shoot, I just remembered one more rule is that the first name has to work with the last initial S. We ran into this with the name Levi, where the S forces you to think of the jeans– Levi S.

If I think to myself, “What are my impressions of the name Asher?,” here’s what I’ve got, in the order they come to mind:

1. A revived biblical name, along the lines of Ezra and Elias and Noah. Added benefit of not sounding particularly biblical, for those who would prefer to avoid that.

2. A “stealth popular” name: feels very unusual but there are a surprising number of them.

2b. But is #2 true, or is that something I read as a prediction? Because I don’t know any Ashers at all still. I asked the kids, and they don’t know any Ashers either. Maybe this was one of those names that created a lot of buzz but that’s all.

3. A next-generation name, as when we still like the sound of a name but it also feels dated or overused, so we try to find something that is similar yet different. Madison and Madelyn lead to Addison and Adalyn, for example; or, when Emma and Ella feel too popular, people look for other names starting with Em- and El-. I wonder if Asher came into fashion because we were not quite done with the name Ashley, combined with the celebrity of Ashton Kutcher, combined with the search for biblical revival names. It feels both fresh and familiar, a lovely combination; plus it has those long roots, so it isn’t an invented or overly modern name.

4. The -er ending makes it fit well with the surname style and the occupational-name style, both of which are in fashion now.

With a list like this, where I’d start is with 2b: IS Asher very popular? I feel like those “hottest search” lists can save parents from the mistaken impression that they are the only ones to think of the name, but they can also panic parents unnecessarily: the names people are interested in or want to talk about are not necessarily the names they use for their children. “Hotness” is difficult to translate into usage numbers. So, let’s look at the actual data for the name Asher:

(screen shot from SSA.gov)

The name was in very light, barely-Top-1000 use back in the 1880s and for one year in the 1890s (I haven’t included that part in the screen shot because that makes a lonnnng chart). The name then dropped out of the Top 1000 until it popped up again in 1983 and 1985; it came back and stayed back starting in 1992. Since then, you can see it has made significant progress up the chart—but not at a speed I’d describe as breakneck: it took more than two decades to go from virtually-unused to nicely-familiar.

I am always interested to see where a name STOPS. Many, many names come roaring into fashion, and that doesn’t scare me a bit: that’s how names WORK. We use one batch for awhile, and then a new batch becomes more appealing and we switch to those: I don’t even WANT to use a name that doesn’t sound nice to the current ear. But where the name STOPS is a very interesting and potentially important detail. A name might come into fashion and keep going until it gets to #1, as names such as Emma, Sophia, Isabella, Noah, and Jacob did, each at their own pace. Or a name might come into fashion and then hang around in the 100s or 200s ranks, where it is familiar but still unusual.

The name Asher has spent the last few years just sort of hovering: #113 in 2011, then #108 in 2012, then #104 in 2013. When the 2014 data comes out in May, I’ll be interested to see if it’s at, say, #106, or if it’s made the jump into the Top 100, or if it even ends up at, say, #128. I wouldn’t expect it to be in the Top 10.

One appealing feature of very old names is that it’s hard to apply the word “trendy” to them even if they become very popular, or even if they can be said to be part of a trend (such as the “hip biblical” trend). It’s similar to clothing fashions: even if navy blue blazers are considered particularly fresh and stylish one spring, and even if “nautical prep” is listed as a trend, it doesn’t feel quite right to use the word “trendy” for the blazer. For something to be trendy, there needs to be a flash-in-the-pan element, and that’s difficult to use when something has been in and out of the pan for thousands of years.

When parents have a too-long list and want to find ways to pare it down, I start looking harder at surname compatibility and the flow of the name. But when parents have a too-short list, I shift priorities. Calvin $utherl@nd sounds fine to me: I see what you mean about its possible imperfections, but I see the imperfections here as non-deal-breaking, and the name has so many things going for it that I’d keep it on the list.

Same with Felix and Curtis. I like names not to run together too much, but those don’t cross my “too much” line with $utherl@nd. One thing I look for is whether the run-together/blend matters at all. That is, are we talking the classic example of Ben Dover, where we really don’t want our child called Bend Over? Or is it more a case where two letters create a slight issue in the mouth when we transition from the one to the other, and it’s nothing embarrassing or upsetting? For me, Calvin, Felix, and Curtis all fall well within the second category with $utherl@nd: I’d be well willing to accept the minor imperfections (if they even ARE imperfections).

Here is an exercise I found exceedingly helpful. Do you have any yearbooks lying around? (I choose yearbooks rather than, say, the credits at the end of a movie, because I find the photos make things even clearer for me; but if you don’t have a yearbook, film credits or phone books or employee directories work well too.) If you do have a yearbook, page through one and look at the names. Notice how many of them are not perfect—and how little it matters in most cases. Once the name is attached to a person, most of them just seem like regular names, even if you can find things less than ideal about them. Jacob Butterfield kind of buh-buhs, I guess, but it just seems like a name. Evan Dylan is definitely one I could have advised against, and yet when it’s on a ninth grader it just doesn’t seem to matter very much. Calvin $utherl@nd and Felix $utherl@nd might not have even caught my eye with this exercise, let alone alarmed me or made me wonder what the parents were thinking.

I was already wondering if I should encourage your husband to reconsider Ian, and then I used the example of Evan Dylan in the previous paragraph; those two things together made me wonder if Evan might be a nice one to add to the list: it’s a little like Ian from your list, and a little like your husband’s former name-crush Vaughn, and a little like Calvin. Evan $utherl@nd.

Or Gavin. Gavin $utherl@nd.

I don’t suppose I could talk you into Harvey? I’ve loved it since Sabrina the Teenage Witch. Similar to Henry, but much less common. Harvey $utherl@nd.

I also suggest Karl. It’s a name I haven’t had much luck promoting, but I still think it’s worth a try. Karl $utherl@nd.

Name update!

Dear Swistle,
Thank you again for your and your readers’ help back in February when my husband and I were considering Asher for our son’s name.  After several weeks of feeling like his name was going to either be Asher or Calvin, we both lost interest in both of those names, neither seemed right.  So I started reintroducing names that I had liked but had been shot down early on, and this time the name Ev@n suddenly struck us both as just right.  When looking for a middle name, it occurred to my husband that Ev@n had two letters from each of our names, so he used an anagram generator to see if there might be a middle name that used the rest too, and it turned out that we loved the middle name that we found for him that way.  I’m pleased to report that two weeks ago we welcomed our dear Ev@n ®eed into the world!

We are expecting baby girl #2 in July. Her big sister’s name was so easy for us to come up with. We both loved it immediately. She goes by Emerson, Emmy or Em. This time we are having more trouble agreeing. We want a name that isn’t too out there, but also isn’t extremely popular. Because Emerson is gender neutral I don’t want to go with anything super feminine, I don’t think they would go together. Some of the names on my short list are:

Marley
Quin
Charlie
Shelby
Paige

Those are the ones my husband and I agree on, but none of them really jump out at us as ‘the one’. He came up with one over the weekend that has me intrigued. Finley Margaret. Originally when he said it I thought it sounded a little too masculine, but it’s definitely growing on me. The middle name starts with an “M” for his mother who passed away last year. I could also use some help with girl middle names that start with an M! My favorite boy’s name has always been Finn, and since this will be our last child, I like the idea of incorporating Finn into a girls name.

Thanks for any help!
Julie

It sounds to me as if Finley is a perfect fit. Here’s how the name Emerson looked in 2013:

Emersen: 45 F, 10 M
Emerson: 1509 F, 973 M
Emersyn: 595 F, 16 M
Emmerson: 170 F, 22 M
Emmersyn: 71 F, – M

About 2,390 new baby girls and about 1,021 new baby boys: unisex, but currently used more often for girls.

Here’s how the name Finley looked in 2013:

Finlay: 18 F, 41 M
Finley: 1089 F, 562 M
Finnley: 113 F, 176 M

About 1,220 new baby girls and about 779 new baby boys: unisex, but currently used more often for girls.

Finley Margaret strikes me as a charming combination, and I like the way it lets you salvage your favorite boy name. I also like the way both girls have modern/unisex first names and traditional/feminine middle names. More M-name possibilities:

Finley Mae Burton; Emerson Grace and Finley Mae
Finley Maeve Burton; Emerson Grace and Finley Maeve
Finley Maria Burton; Emerson Grace and Finley Maria
Finley Matilda Burton; Emerson Grace and Finley Matilda
Finley Meredith Burton; Emerson Grace and Finley Meredith
Finley Michaela Burton; Emerson Grace and Finley Michaela
Finley Miranda Burton; Emerson Grace and Finley Miranda

But Finley Margaret is my favorite.

Name update!

I gave birth to Finley Margaret on July 10th. Thanks to everyone for your feedback. People seem to love her name and it really fits her. Now our family is complete!

Thanks so much!!
Julie

Hello,

We are expecting our second child, another son, who is due at the end of April. As with our first child, we are struggling with boy names. Our first son turned two in January. With him we didn’t know his sex until he was born. The girl name came easily, but we didn’t have our boy name until after he was born. His name is William August. Most people, including us, call him Will, but he has a Grandpa that has never called him anything but Gus, which I love.

This time we know we are having a boy but still we struggle. Obviously, I want a name that goes well with William, but William can go a few different ways. Royal, cowboy, American traditional…

Here are some things I love about Will’s name.

I love that it is timeless. It is common/popular now, but it has always been common/popular. I like that it doesn’t feel like we are trying to “bring back” an old Grandpa name. I love that it has a nice formal name with a cute but still manly short name. And I love that the short name is kind of trendy and modern while the long name is classic and traditional. I love how his middle name gives his full name a more modern feel too. August is trendier but still old, which I like.

I would love another name that I can love for all (or most) of the same reasons I love William August.

Here are some names we have considered, discarded, or won’t/can’t use. Did I mention my husband is very opinionated about names??

Names we both like: Malcolm (Mac), Arthur (Art?), Milo, Calvin (Cal)

Names I like (but hubby is against for one reason or another): Samuel (Sam), Louis (Lou?), Jack, Oliver, Nicholas (Cole), Lucas (Luke), Marshall

Names hubby likes (but I’m against for one reason or another): Charles (Charlie), Gordon (Gordy), Henry

Names you would think we would like but aren’t crazy about: Daniel, James (at least for a first name), Michael, Matthew, Jacob, David, Joseph, John, Christopher

Names close friends have used recently: Alexander, Benjamin, Thomas

We would like to avoid super Biblical names if possible. If it helps, our girl name has always been Alba Josephine. Our kids use my husband’s last name – a one syllable name that starts with an S.

Are there any names left? We are stuck. I will end with saying that a lot of the names I have discarded in my mind I could see myself falling in love with. When I was pregnant with my first, I never thought I would grow to love the names William and August as much as I do now. So maybe there’s hope!

If you are willing, we appreciate any advice you may have!

Thanks!

Emily

This is a letter that has occupied my mind. I’ve been trying to think of names that are like William, but William really does seem to be a special case. How is it that a name can sound fresh when it hasn’t left the Top 20 since the start of the Social Security Administration’s records in 1880? Well, it just does, and I don’t think other names can be held to that standard. I wrote a whole post with suggestions but kept getting bogged down: one name was great but didn’t have a good nickname; another name was great but definitely a little Grandpa-ish; yet another name had a great nickname and didn’t sound Grandpa-ish, but didn’t feel fresh to me either.

When I find myself going in circles like that, I stop and reevaluate: am I looking for something that exists, or am I spinning my wheels because what I want is something I can’t have? Right now, my theory is that you’re stuck because you’re looking for something that may not exist: a name you love, that you love for the same reasons you love the name William, that isn’t ruled out for any other reason. Considering how small the pool of timeless names to choose from is, and adding an opinionated partner to work with, and then ruling out names for various reasons—well, as I say, this is the point where I stop and reevaluate.

I think from here there are two paths:

1. Give up on one or more or ALL of the characteristics that make a name similar to the name William, and instead choose a name you like for different reasons. It can be fun to like names for different reasons, and makes for good naming stories. (“We liked YOUR name because it’s timeless yet fresh, and we liked YOUR name because of George Clooney. Mmmm, George Clooney. …I mean because it’s timeless yet fresh.”)

2. Go through the list of timeless names (your current candidates and others not on your list) again and again until you start to develop love feelings for one or more of the new or discarded candidates.

The first path would lead me to throw all my backing behind the name Henry, IF the reason you ruled it out was something such as a lack of nicknames you wanted to use, as opposed to something such as a horrible association. I just LOVE William and Henry together. I think it may be my absolute top favorite pairing with William. I don’t have too strong a Royal Princes association with it, in part because the names are so common, and in part because I always think of the younger prince as Prince Harry; many people don’t even realize his name is Henry. The nickname issue would probably be the biggest hurdle for me if I were you: I don’t think of Henry as HAVING nicknames. I know it DOES have nicknames (The Baby Name Wizard lists Hank, Hal, and Harry), but none of those feel natural to me: even if I picked one (I’m theoretically keen on the nickname Hank, since I have a dear relative named Henry/Hank), I don’t think I’d end up using it. I’d just call him Henry, and maybe hope another nickname would evolve naturally.

If Henry is out, that same first path would lead me to throw out everything and start over, as if this were your first baby and you were just making lists of names you liked, without putting any of them through the “Is it the same as the name William?” filters. I would even include on your list names that don’t go with William, since those might lead you in new and useful directions.

The second path, on the other hand, would lead me to suggest going through the list name by name, talking up each one that seemed like a good idea, giving yourself time and reasons and opportunities to fall in love. I’d suggest exercises such as imagining the name written in cute preschooler handwriting on a drawing (I’d go so far as to find a child-handwriting font and mess around with it), or imagining William calling the baby “Baby _____,” or looking at pictures of cute babies online and trying the names on them, or going over again how you never thought you’d love the name William as much as you do.

I am about to suggest my children’s pseudonyms, pretty much one right after another. They come to mind because William is also one of the pseudonyms.

I wonder if you would like Robert. That’s one that, like William, doesn’t seem to go away. One thing that makes it different than William, however, is that its popularity is currently in a slow and gradual decline. It was in the Top Eleven (darn you, 1881 and 1887, for preventing me from saying “Top Ten”) from the start of online Social Security records in 1880, until 1989. Even now, it has only fallen as low as #62. William and Robert; Will and Rob. One thing I like about it is all the other cute nicknames, like Robin and Bobbin and Bertie and so forth. (I’m imagining modifying the lyrics to “When the Red Red Robin Comes Bob Bob Bobbin’ Along.”) One thing that’s interesting to me about the name Robert is how much it grew on me: when I first used it as a pseudonym for my firstborn, I didn’t even like the name, but now I do. I like calling him Rob. It’s pleasing to me that I know Roberts my grandfather’s age, my dad’s age, my age, and my children’s age.

Next Swistle-kid-pseudonym to consider: Edward. This is another that I don’t think I would have considered as an actual name, but then I used it for a pseudonym and now sometimes I wish I HAD named the twins Elizabeth and Edward! What a great pairing! I don’t know if I would have used a nickname or not. Eddie, perhaps, or the more deliberate choices Ned and Ted(dy). William and Edward; Will and T…. oh wait. Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure. Hm. I guess that would rule it out for me.

I see I am already out of pseudonyms to recommend.

I think it would be worth exploring the possibility of using Benjamin even though your friends used it. William and Benjamin; Will and Ben.

From the list of four names the two of you agree on, my favorite is Calvin. That is in fact my favorite for you of all the possibilities on your list or off it. I think it comes very close to duplicating what you like about William: the formal, non-Grampa-ish full name with the friendly boyish-but-great-for-a-man-too nickname; the timeless feeling with the modern freshness.

For a middle name, I might look for something more common, so that William has a common name followed by a less-common middle name, and Calvin has a less-common name followed by a common middle name. I would do this mostly for the satisfaction of it; that is, if I found a less-common middle name I liked better, I would certainly go with that. But William August and Calvin James has a very satisfying balance, and I enjoy that kind of thing.

Or, I would do my usual middle-name-finding exercise, which is to skim lightly through the baby name book (something like The Baby Name Wizard with a selection of names, rather than a name dictionary with tens of thousands of them) saying the names to myself very rapidly (“Calvin Aaron, Calvin Abel, Calvin Abraham…”) and pausing to make a list of anything that catches my ear.

Or, I would go through the list of names you have already, looking for one that can be salvaged. Sometimes a name has to be discarded as a first-name candidate because of something that is not its fault, such as that it sounds too close to a sibling’s name or creates undesirable initials or is a name someone else just used. It can be satisfying to salvage one of those for the middle name.

Name update!

Dear Swistle,

I wrote to you back in February seeking name advice for our second son. You featured my story as “Baby Boy S_____, Brother to William August” on 2/18/2015.

Well, our little guy decided to come 11 days early on April 14, 2015. He was born without a name even after all the thought and discussion, hours and hours of thought and discussion! I guess we work better under pressure because we decided on a name shortly after he was born. We named him Charles Archer and have been calling him Charlie. William August and Charles Archer. William and Charles. Will and Charlie. Grandpa will surely call him Archie, so Gus and Archie. I love.

I want to thank you again for your advice. I was determined to find a name that I loved for ALL the same reasons I love our first son’s name, William August, but you helped me realize that perhaps I was searching for something that doesn’t exist, especially with so many already discarded names. While we seriously considered using your suggestion of Calvin (it was one of just a few names that went to the hospital with us), you had also inspired me to look back at my (extensive) “no” list and reconsider some classics. Charles/Charlie was one that my husband has always liked, but I had put in the “no” bucket because of a past association. However, when I revisited it later on, it grew on me quickly, and I began seeing our son with that name. Archer kind of came out of nowhere, but I think fits nicely.

Thanks again for your help! And a big thanks to everyone who commented as well. A picture of our boys is attached. :)

Emily

Hi Swistle !

I’ve been a devout reader of your naming blog since we were pregnant with our first, who’s 3 now, and would love your advice ! We have two boys, Harrison John (3), who sometimes goes by Harry, and Emmett Matthew (1). We are due with our third, and probably last, in April. Our last name sounds like Walker. We decided not to find out the sex this time, but if it’s a girl she will likely be Hazel Lucille or Hazel Marguerite.

The problem is, we’re having trouble coming up with a third boy’s name we love just as much as Harrison and Emmett. The boy’s middle names are family names, so we will likely go with Paul (after my grandfather) for the middle name this time. The short list of names that both of us like includes, Augustus, Leonard nn Leo (family name), Ezra, and Maxwell nn Max. I find myself obsessing over which name sounds best with Harrison and Emmett, and worrying that none of them “feel right”. Augustus is good, but it just doesn’t feel like THE name. Leonard I like, but I worry it’s too out there and doesn’t fit a squishy little baby. Ezra I like a lot, but it doesn’t seem to flow with our naming style. Maxwell, I like, but worry it’s too popular compared to our other boy’s names. In general I tend to go for more “old fashioned” names.

Maybe you have a suggestion we haven’t thought of ? Some other names I love but we can’t use for various reasons include, Oliver, Thaddeus, Theodore, Bennett, Everett, and Henry. Please help ! Am I over-analyzing simply because naming three boys is hard ? Maybe no name will feel like “the name” as much as I think it will, but April is quickly approaching and there’s no name in sight !

We’re in desperate need of your wisdom :)

This may or may not apply to you, but if it DOES apply, it can be a comfort: When you were searching for your second child’s name, was it hard to find anything you liked as much as your first child’s name? And has that issue now been resolved, and you love both names? I think it is nearly impossible to find a name that measures up to the names of already-born-and-beloved children. The names Harrison and Emmett are no longer NAMES to you: they’re CHILDREN. No name can measure up to that, until it too is a child rather than a name. Instead of looking for a name you like as much as the first two, I suggest making this subtle shift: look for the name you like best of all the available options.

I would be interested in knowing which name is the frontrunner at this point. If I were trying to rank “good,” “like,” “like a lot,” and “like,” my guess would be that Ezra (“like a lot”) is currently your first choice. If I met a sibling group containing Harrison, Emmett, and Ezra, I wouldn’t find the style shift startling: it IS hard to name three boys, and the styles are compatible. I am slightly bothered by the repeated short-E-and-two-syllables of Emmett and Ezra, but not enough to cross Ezra off the list: the other sounds in the names are so different.

Leonard seems like the current second choice. If Leonard seems a little too grown-up for a squeezy little bundle, I’d suggest calling him Leo (as planned) or Lenny until he’s a bit older. Or perhaps another baby nickname will occur naturally. “Cub,” maybe, from leo = lion.

The style gap seems larger to me with Leonard than with Ezra. Ezra, like Harrison and Emmett, is a name currently in style (not high on the charts, but in favor sound- and style-wise), and so all three names feel current. They were also of very similar popularity in 2013: Harrison at #161, Emmett at #173, and Ezra at #143. Leonard is not quite back yet; at #687 and falling, it feels out of step with the others. The nickname Leo brings it back into step, however. Harry, Emmett, and Leo.

“Doesn’t feel like the name” seems to me to take Augustus out of the running. You have probably already considered August, but I’d want to mention it again: it feels more compatible to me than Augustus with the other children’s names. Harrison, Emmett, and August. Nickname Gus if you want it.

I agree that Maxwell feels more popular than Harrison and Emmett, and it IS more popular: Maxwell was at #108 in 2013 and Max was at #111. But they’re not as high as I’d thought.

I wonder if you might like Nathaniel. Perhaps it will be more common than you’d prefer, but I like it with Harrison and Emmett. Nathaniel Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Nathaniel; Harry, Emmett, and Nate.

Or Sebastian. Sebastian Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Sebastian.

This may be a bit further out than you’d like to go, but I thought of Shepard if your surname is not a word. Harrison, Emmett, and Shepard; Harry, Emmett, and Shep.

Or Gabriel, if that’s not too much L with the surname. Harrison, Emmett, and Gabriel.

We were talking on Twitter the other day about the name Russell: a few of us had been pleasantly surprised to encounter it on children. It hits that “familiar yet uncommon” mark nicely, and then all three boys have double letters in their names. But maybe too much L with the surname. Russell Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Russell.

Or Clark, which may or may not be good with the surname. I like the descending syllables of Harrison, Emmett, and Clark.

Or Grant. Harrison, Emmett, and Grant.

Or Gage. Harrison, Emmett, and Gage.

Or Reid. Harrison, Emmett, and Reid.

Or Lincoln. Harrison, Emmett, and Lincoln.

Or Nolan. Harrison, Emmett, and Nolan.

Oliver, Everett, and Henry all tap right into my own name list. I wanted to suggest George (also on that list), but George Harrison may rule that out; I wanted to suggest Elliot, but that seems much too close to Emmett. I wanted to suggest Wesley, but it seems too alliterative with the surname.

Do you like Simon? Simon Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Simon.

Or Louis? I like the pronunciation that sounds like Lewis, and it’s on my Sad I Can’t Use It list. Louis Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Louis. Or maybe that merges too much with the surname.

We liked both Miles and Milo. Miles Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Miles. Milo Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Milo. Again, maybe too much L with the surname, depending on what it is.

Or Calvin? This was a favorite we had to rule out for other reasons. Calvin Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Calvin; Harry, Emmett, and Cal.

Or Malcolm. Malcolm Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Malcolm.

Or Gideon. Gideon Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Gideon.

Or Franklin. Franklin Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Franklin.

Or Frederick. Frederick Walker; Harrison, Emmett, and Frederick.

Name update:

Swistle ! For almost three years, your readers lives have indeed been an exercise in sad unsatisfied futility, in regards to Baby “Walker”. I JUST stumbled upon my own writing this morning when a friend, who is also looking for a suitable sibling name for Emmett, put two and two together and asked if I ever sent a question to Swistle… I couldn’t believe it ! You ended up posting my questions about naming our team green baby, the day before they were born… I was in the hospital for about a week and a half (stalking Swistle because we still hadn’t decided on a boy name) and our little one made their entrance 10 weeks early, the day after you posted our naming conundrum. Our third boy, Brooks Paul, was born 2/17/15, weighing 3 lbs 6 oz. In the end we decided we really wanted to find a name with double letters like Harrison and Emmett (you and a couple commenters both suggested the idea). We found the name while I was in the hospital, and instantly knew it was “the” name. He is a happy and healthy almost-3 year old now, running around like a mad man with his brothers Harrison John and Emmett Matthew. I attached my favorite picture from him in the NICU, about 5 weeks into his stay. Thank you, as always, for your wonderful advice

-Kelcy

Hi Swistle!

I have a middle name conundrum I would love some advice on! I’m due in June with a little girl. I have a boy named Arlo Randy. Arlo was just a name we liked and Randy is my husband’s father’s name who passed away while we were pregnant with my son (it is also my passed uncle’s name and my part of my brother’s name so it was a no brainer!) Our last name is like Fitzpatrick- but Kirk instead of Fitz.

Our baby girl’s name will be Thia. My mother’s name was Cynthia and she died when I was 22- I’ve wanted to use the second half of her name since then. I know it is not the traditional way to spell Thea- but it makes sense with the name it’s honoring, and it still is pronounced the same (people are familiar with ending ia- Sophia, Mia- right?) I am a little worried about that, but maybe not enough to change it?

Anyways, my real question is the middle name. I always thought I wanted to name my daughter after my grandma’s middle name, Viola. Thia Viola. My great grandma happened to be Cynthia Viola as well. So it would pay extra homage- maybe too much? Maybe this girl needs a middle name that is hers alone? Arlo has his own name and an honor name, so should Thia?

Another twist is that my grandmother turned kind of nasty when my mom fell ill and said some hurtful things to my siblings and me. For the 20 years before that, she was like a second parent (my mom was a single parent) but at the end of my mom’s life, she turned on us (and passed away 6 months after my mom did, so I didn’t have time to see if it was just grief making her mean).

So I’m all sorts of confused about honoring her, having 2 honor names, if Thia Viola even flows on it’s own or goes with Arlo Randy.

If we decide not to do an honor name, I like:

Thia Arwen
Thia Wynn
Thia Nelle (husband vetoed)
Thia Wells (husband vetoed)
Thia Violet (similar to Viola, kind of an honor nod?)
Thia Anne (my middle name. Husband’s mom’s middle name, though hers is without an ‘e’.)

If it matters, our boy name would have been Ramsey Lee or Keller Lee. Lee was my mom’s middle name.

Thoughts? Advice? I’m losing sleep over this and I have 19 weeks to go!

Thanks for reading,
Kaeleen

I did first read Thia as THIGH-ah. I think once I knew it was supposed to be like Thea, I would eventually get it right, and your explanation would help the spelling make sense, but as I was answering the letter I kept reading it wrong. It SHOULD read with the long-E sound to me, because of Olivia and Amelia and Aria and Julia and so forth—but for whatever reason, it didn’t. Maybe it has to do with the Thi- coming at the beginning of a word? Thiamin and thigh have the long-I, but thief has the long-E. (I think thiamin is the primary source of my trouble with it.) I wish we could have a poll, but the polls still aren’t working. I showed the name to Paul, and he said, “I’d first see it as THIGH-ah, but I’d know no one would name their child that, so then I’d guess THEE-ah” (“thee” with a soft TH, not the buzzy TH of the word “thee”). That sums up the way I saw it, too: I think I’d first see THIGH-ah, but then realize it HAD to be THEE-ah, or maybe TEE-ah (like the Th- of Theresa). It’s unfortunate that one of the possible mispronunciations involves the word thigh, making it somewhat more than the usual “more than one way to pronounce a name” issue.

The grandmother honor name is another complicated issue; I can see why it’s a fretful one. Is Viola pronounced with a VEE or a VYE? That would add another issue for me: if Viola has the long-I sound, it makes it even harder for me to say the first -i- correctly: the long-I of Viola, and the similar appearance of the two names, makes me want to say both with a long-I. But that is not likely to come up: most people won’t see the two names together on a regular basis. And of course if it’s VEE, that HELPS with the pronunciation of Thia—though then the combination seems a little sing-song.

I think I could go either way on whether or not she should have one honor name or two. One of my five children has two honor names, and those still feel like his own names—I think because we used relatively common names, so I’m accustomed to encountering them on other people, and so it feels more like duplicating than sharing. It also shows I’m not picky about sibling names being completely consistent: our plan was to use honor names as middle names, but then we found one we really liked as a first name, so we let our preference for the name take priority over the preference to make things consistent. Another family might do it the other way around, depending on how they rank their preferences.

I think for me, the combination of your mixed and stressful feelings about your grandmother’s last 6 months, plus your mixed feelings about using two honor names for this child when you used one honor name for the first child, might tip me toward a non-honor middle name. If you plan to have more children, perhaps Viola could be set aside for a possible future daughter.

I find that with a soft, vowel-ending name like Thia, I prefer more consonants in the middle name, especially at the beginning of the name: Thia Wynn and Thia Anne feel so soft, like I almost can’t get a grip on them to say them. Arlo is another soft, vowel-ending name, but then Randy has its nice consonants to balance it; I’d look for something similar for Thia. Thia Miranda would be the feminine equivalent, or Thia Violet from your list does it (but has the same long-I issue as the VYE pronunciation of Viola).

Because I found Thia Viola potentially misleading, pronunciation-wise, I might look especially for middle names that have the same -ia- as in Thia. But because the first and middle names are unlikely to come up together very often, and because your surname is nicely full of consonant sounds, neither of these two issues I’ve raised (consonants and -ia- matching) are ones I’d give heavy priority; more like tools I’d use to help me make a list, if I were having trouble coming up with one.

I wonder if you’d want to use Gracyn as the middle. I’d added Grace to the middle name list below, and then thought of the first half of your mother’s name. Thia Gracyn gets the whole Cynthia in there.

Thia Bianca
Thia Bridget
Thia Claudia
Thia Frances
Thia Grace
Thia Jane
Thia Jillian
Thia Jocelyn
Thia Liviana
Thia Louise
Thia Marigold
Thia Rose
Thia Rosemary
Thia Rowan
Thia Ruby
Thia Simone
Thia Valentina
Thia Victoria
Thia Vivian
Thia Winifred

Name update!

Hello Swistle!
Name update! I asked for some help naming my baby girl back in February! I was so appreciative of everyone’s advice!

We had our little girl on June 17.
We ended up naming her Thia Patrice. My sister’s middle name is Patrice, and I decided that my relationship with my Grandma just was too confusing to name my daughter after her.  My sister was elated with this news! I like the repeated sound of the -ia and -ice and I love that she’s named after the two most important women of my life.

Thanks again!