Dear Swistle,

I’m Krista and my husband is Jordan, and we have a two-and-a-half year old daughter named Fiona Maisie. Our last name is H0lmes. I’m currently 30 weeks pregnant with our second baby girl (due May 7). We absolutely love Fiona’s name and feel like it is pretty perfect…but now we’re totally stuck. I feel like because we like Fiona Maisie so much, we’re paralyzed by the pressure if coming up with something “as good” for baby girl #2.

Fiona’s name was almost Elise; Adelaide was also a contender. Maisie is an honor name, after my great-great aunt who was an awesome lady. If this baby was a boy, he would have been Nial James (yes, only one L). My husband has always liked Nial – since he was a kid – and I like it too, so that was that. James is an honor name, after my late father-in-law. For what it’s worth, I’m not a fan of Niala/Nialla.

This baby will be our last and we are seriously considering using James as her middle name, but whether we do or not will depend on what we decide on for her first name. Fiona has adamantly declared that her sister’s name is Lula. That’s what we refer to her as right now and the nickname will likely stick, but we’re not fans of any of the obvious names for which Lula could work as a nickname (Tallulah, Lucy, Luana, etc.). We’re not concerned about this – Fiona’s nickname has emerged as Bo, so having another kid with a nickname that’s totally random and not associated with her real name isn’t a problem.

We would like to find a name that is familiar but not common, easy to pronounce, and goes well with Fiona. I would like to try to stay away from names ending in –h or another name ending in –a, and if possible would like one that starts with its own unique letter (not K, J or F). The currently names that we’re considering are all over the map:

Margot – if this name could stand alone it would probably be the winner, but we’re not huge fans of the double “o” sounds in Margot H0lmes
Sibyl
Reverie
Ainslie
Maeve
Imogen
Carys – starts with C, which sounds like K
Aila – ends with a
Meredith – ends with h
Eisley – too hipster? Also, I’m not sure it goes well with Fiona

My husband also likes Leighton and Avery, but I’m not a fan.

Names that we like but can’t/won’t use: Eilidh (ay-lee) – love how this sounds, but the fact that it is hard to spell makes it a deal breaker; Elodie; Louise/Louisa.

Please help! The more we talk about names, the farther away from a decision we seem get. We would love to hear what you and your readers think!

xo Krista

I have the perfect name: Eloise. It is SO PERFECT, there is almost certainly a reason you have had to rule it out. But just look at this QUALITY LOGIC supporting it:

1. Fiona and Eloise both have three syllables, are similar in style/whimsy/awesomeness, and have the shared long-O sound. You say you don’t like the double-long-O of Margot H0lmes, but Fiona H0lmes has the same double-long-O thing, so my guess is that what you don’t like is the two-syllable/second-syllable-long-O situation, or maybe it’s the “go home” sound that is formed by Margot+H0lmes specifically.

2. Eloise is basically Elodie + Louise, both on your like-but-can’t-use list. It’s also similar to Elise, one of your frontrunners last time.

3. Lula would not be a crazy nickname for it.

4. It starts with its own unique initial and doesn’t end in -a.

5. I think you like the S-pronounced-Z sound: Maisie, Ainslie, Eisley.

The sister pairing of “Fiona and Eloise” just THRILLS me. I am feeling almost physical pain at the idea of you not using it. But because your lists circle SO CLOSELY to Eloise without mentioning it, my guess is that you HAVE thought of it and can’t or don’t want to use it.

In that case, let’s look at the other options.  My top favorite from your list is Imogen. I love it. Fiona and Imogen. I could almost get over the pain of losing the name Eloise.

My second favorite from your list is Meredith. I know you said you don’t want a name ending in -H, but I’m wondering if you’re thinking of the rule of thumb that suggests not ending a first name with the first letter of the surname—an overly sweeping rule meant to avoid an unpleasant clash/blend of sounds. In the case of -h/H-, and particularly when it’s -th/H- I don’t see any clashes or blends.

More ideas:

Annabel
Audrey
Beatrix
Bianca
Cecily
Clarissa
Claudia
Eliza
Genevieve
Lorelei
Lydia
Matilda
Minerva
Nadia
Ruby
Sabrina
Twyla
Winifred

You will notice I’m leaving in names that end in -a. I’m keeping that preference in mind, but so MANY great girl names end in -a, and it doesn’t bother my ear at all to think of two sisters with -a names.

Name update!

Hi Swistle,

Eloise James was born on May 19.  My husband likes to make fun of me about the fact that after months and months of agonizing over this decision I ended up blissfully following the advice of a bunch of strangers on the internet – and I wouldn’t have it any other way!  Imogen and Margot remained contenders right up until the end, but ultimately she is definitely Eloise.  Her sister still almost exclusively calls her Lula, so it looks like that nickname will stick around for a while yet.

Thanks so much for your response, and to your readers for all of their thoughtful comments!

xo Krista

Hi Swistle!
I wrote to you when we were pregnant with our second (baby boy, Theodore). We are currently expecting our third in September, and we are fairly certain of the baby’s first name for each gender. However, I wanted an opinion on the middle.
Our 4 year old daughter is Adeline Elizabeth (Elizabeth for my middle as well as my mom). Our 2 year old son is Theodore (nicknamed Theo) Justus (for my dad and my grandpa). When we were pregnant with Theo, my husband didn’t want a namesake (other than giving our kiddos his surname). Since then, he’s changed his mind and would like to pass down his name (Ryan) as a middle. I’m completely fine and supportive of that. If it’s a boy, his name will be Henry (nicknamed Hank) Ryan.

My question is do you think, if this baby is a girl, would she mind having Ryan as a middle name? Her first name would be Eloise. So, full name would be Eloise Ryan.

When I try to imagine having Justus (my dad’s name) as my middle name, I’m not sure if I’d like it (I’m actually fairly certain that I wouldn’t like it). However, Ryan seems to be an easier name for a girl to carry than Justus. We’ve always preferred traditionally feminine names for girls, so maybe that’s why I’m having a hard time with this.

We would like more kids (ideally 4 total), so it’s possible we could get another future son. However, nothing’s guaranteed, and this is important to my husband. What do you think? Should we use Ryan as a middle regardless of gender for #3?

Thank you for any advice or opinions,
Katie

I think part of the issue is that Ryan is an easier name for a girl to carry than Justus (though I think Justice would work nicely for either boys or girls), but I think an even bigger part of the issue is that naming trends have changed to better allow for it. When I was a child, I would have been fairly appalled to have a “boy name” as my middle name, but then as I grew up there was that whole fad of girls on TV being called Sam and Alex and Teddy and Frankie, and then the whole thing felt different. I think NOW if I had a “boy name” as my middle name, I’d think it was pretty cool—depending on the middle name (e.g., Wesley yes, Robert no, James yes, Paul no). In any case, the name Ryan is familiar enough for girls that it wouldn’t surprise me at all as a middle name even WITHOUT the honor name situation, and I think it sounds nice with Eloise.

But if you’re quite sure you’d like to have another baby after this one, I think I would save the name Ryan. My reason has less to do with whether Ryan works for a girl, and more to do with keeping sibling names comparable. If Adeline Elizabeth has a fully feminine name with honor names after women, and Theodore Justus has a fully masculine name with honor names after men, it feels most pleasing to me that a baby girl named Eloise should have a fully feminine name with honor names after women. (I suggest Katherine, so that each daughter has one of your names.) I’m not saying it’s crucial, or that I think it’s a huge big deal—only that it would be my own choice because of being pleasingly consistent. If this baby is a girl, and then you are expecting a fourth child who will likely be your last child, THEN I’d say use Ryan as the middle name no matter what—because at that point, the part about being pleasingly consistent loses out to the priority of getting to use the name.

Name update:

Hi Swistle!
Thank you for your advice and everyone’s input on our middle name question. We decided to go for it and use my husband’s name regardless of gender. We did end up with a little girl, so Eloise Ryan was born on September 26. We all like her a lot. :)
Thanks again!
Katie

Hi, Swistle! I love, love, love names and am excited to finally be able to write to you! Apologies in advance for going on at great length.

I’m Stephanie (usually Steph to people who know me well), he’s Jacob (Jake to everyone except government authorities); our last name sounds like Angle, but with an E instead of an A. We’re expecting our first child, a boy, in April. We’re lucky in that we seem to have generally similar name tastes—we like established, traditional-but-not-too-boring, old-man-but-not-TOO-old-man names. But doesn’t everyone these days? My taste leans slightly fustier than Jake’s—his initial favorites were Jack and Joseph, which are perfectly lovely, classic names but just don’t sound very fresh to me anymore.

After lots of negotiation, we’ve narrowed down our list to four first names:

August: By far J’s favorite. My least favorite (though I do like it quite a bit, or it wouldn’t be on the list at all!). J thinks he can sway me with the fact that this is a “family name” on my mother’s side—well, yes, it does appear in my family tree, but the most recent relative named August was my grandfather’s grandfather, so the association is pretty diluted by this point.

Simon: I love it, but I think I love Theodore and Wesley more, so this seems likely to get dumped.

Theodore: One of my favorites, maybe even slightly more so than Wesley. I adore either Theo or Teddy as possible nicknames (not so much Ted, but I can live with it if he chooses it himself when he’s older). One tiny issue is that my father’s beloved cat is named Teddy, but at the risk of sounding heartless—the cat is almost 13 years old, so I don’t really think it will be an issue for too much longer, you know?

Wesley: My other favorite. Extra special because it was my grandfather’s name, although that’s just sort of a nice bonus—there’s no particular reason to honor this grandfather over anyone else. Problems: J tends to pronounce it Wezley, whereas I prefer Wessley (he says he can train himself to pronounce it my way…); J can’t stop quoting “Shut up, Wesley!” from Star Trek.

For a middle name, I’d really like to use my maiden name (now my own middle name), @nderson. My parents gave me my mother’s maiden name as my birth middle name, so it feels like a meaningful continuation to me. However, J isn’t crazy about surnames as anything but surnames (I don’t care for them as first names myself). I think if I “let” him have August as the first name, he would let me use @nderson in the middle; ironically, I don’t love the combination August @nderson and would probably be more inclined to choose something else to go with August. If he “lets” me have Wesley, I’ll probably have to give up @nderson as a concession, since Wesley is already a family name for me. Other family names (from both sides) that we would consider as middle names are Miller (my mom’s maiden), Jack (J’s paternal grandfather’s middle), Joseph (J’s dad, also J’s maternal grandfather’s middle), and Eric (my dad—I don’t really care for his name, though, unfortunately). We don’t want two middle names.

Other boy names that made our original list but were rejected for various reasons (mostly because J liked them a lot less than I did!): Basil, Caleb, Calvin, Colin, Felix, Gabriel, Gideon, Henry, Hugo, Leo, Liam, Lucas, Luke, Milo, Noah, Oliver, Oscar, Owen, Philip, Sebastian. We actually LOVE the name Basil but ultimately decided against it, mostly because I really don’t like the sing-songy matching endings in Basil Angle. I also love Jacob! But neither of us wanted a Jake Junior, not to mention the fact that the extreme popularity was a concern. And I ruled out a lot of E names because I generally don’t care for the alliteration with our last name, and any name ending in s because it would honestly drive me crazy to see people constantly misusing apostrophes with it!

We’re hoping to have one more child eventually. We found out this baby’s sex quite early, so we never really even discussed girl names, but for reference, some of the girl names I love are Amelia, Cora, Eleanor, Elizabeth or Elisabeth, Jane, Julia, Margaret, Mary, Miranda, Penelope, Rose or Rosemary, Simone, Sylvia or Silvia… If I had to choose right now, I would probably push for Margaret, to recall both my mother’s name (Martha) and her mother’s (Margery). And J would probably end up conceding, since my mother passed away when I was only in my mid-20s and he knows how important honoring her is to me. (I really, really wish I liked the name Martha itself, but even my old-fashioned leanings only go so far.)

Well! That was a lot of information—I hope not too much! Just typing it all out has helped me realize that I think MY number one choice would be Theodore @nderson Angle-with-an-E. But if J doesn’t go for that, what other combinations would you or the readers suggest? Are there any concerns with any of our names or combinations thereof that I haven’t thought of? Do any other amazing names that we’ve overlooked come to mind?

Thank you so much for your time! I so appreciate your thoughts, and I promise to write with an update after he’s born!

Cheers,

Steph

I will start with this: that your email has set off in me a giant tower of flame on the topic of men who confidently use their own family surname for every single child, but act all MEH about using the wife’s family surname even as a middle name for one child. HOLY BATS. Do I understand correctly that (1) you have given up your own family surname in order to take your husband’s family surname and (2) you have further agreed that all of your equally-related-to-both-sides-of-the-family children will have HIS family’s surname? I am about ready to PASS A LAW saying that men in this situation should BEND OVER BACKWARDS to make concessions that allow the wife’s family surname (and/or other family honor names) to be used in some way. (And I hope you will all forgive the usage of words such as husband and wife and man and woman in this rant, since obviously this is an issue that can happen to any set of parents, but BOY it really feels to me as if this is a HETERO MALE HUSBAND issue more than anything else.)

I’d like to say /rant, but I’m not sure I’m done. I am not sure why this particular letter is the one that pushed me right over the edge; it’s a matter of accumulation and timing rather than specific content. I am so annoyed that anyone who gives up such a GIANT PIECE OF FAMILY IDENTITY would have to fight AT ALL to get a LITTLE BIT of it passed on to her OWN CHILDREN. Oh, your husband doesn’t LOVE the style of surname-names? SUCK IT UP, HUSBAND BUTTERCUP.

This is not “a surname name,” it’s YOUR FAMILY SURNAME. You should not have to give him his family’s surname AND his first choice of first name in order to get your family surname included anywhere at all.

Here, I have a suggestion, and this is easy since you’re on Baby #1: if he dislikes surname names SO MUCH that your family’s surname cannot be used even as a MIDDLE NAME for ONE child without bargaining and negotiation, then let’s switch over to YOUR family surname. He can take your family surname for himself too if he likes, his choice, but all the children will have YOUR family surname. There! That can be the deal: he gets his preference for no surname names in the first/middle positions, and you get your preference for your family being included in SOME TINY WAY. AAAGGHHHHHHHHH I AM SO ANNOYED RIGHT NOW

********Intermission********

All right. All right. I have had a cup of coffee and a raspberry danish, and I am ready to address the rest of the letter.

Let’s just start by saying I kick out of the arena his “Wah, but I don’t really like surname names” objection. Really. I don’t want to hear any more about it. I’m surprised he can make himself say the words at all. I’m surprised he isn’t the one who CAME UP WITH the idea to use your family surname. “Oh, honey, no, don’t give up your surname just to honor the patriarchy. …Oh, you think it’s the best of the bad options? Well, if you really think so. But then I think we should AT LEAST use your family name as a second middle name for all the kids—and let’s choose honor names from your side of the family. And also please allow me to express my immense gratitude at this sacrifice of

********Intermission********

Okay, cool washcloth applied.

From your list of four, it looks to me as if Theodore is the best choice: most loved overall, fewest issues overall. If you choose August just to get your family name as a middle name, I QUIT. I QUIT THE WHOLE NAMING BUSINESS. I QUIT ALL OF LIFE. I

********Intermission********

Wesley is a great choice, and if it was the top favorite for both of you, I’d say go for it. But I’m remembering when I loved the name Hope, and within thirty seconds of me mentioning it, Paul had made about eight hope-related jokes/references, and I thought “We can’t live this way.” I would want to keep Wesley on the contender list, but your husband’s surname honors your husband’s family, so I don’t think using Wesley should rule out using your surname as a middle name. In fact, I don’t really think at this point that ANYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD should rule out

********Intermission********

I agree with you that the cat-named-Teddy thing is just fine. We had an older cat named Oliver when I was pregnant with my youngest, and Oliver was a name high on our both-love list. We both thought that would be fine—a little funny, but that’s all. You’ll take a few pictures of “Teddy and Teddy,” and it will be adorbs. Theodore @nderson Angle. Lovely.

Another thing I like about it is that all the other names on your list go so well with it. Perhaps the name August will grow on you even more, and a second boy could be August Wesley. Teddy and Gus (*HEART EYES*).

The only only only reason I can think of for not using your family surname as this baby’s middle name is that you might prefer to save it in case the second child is a girl. It feels particularly sweet to me to pass on that tradition: you have your mother’s maiden name as your middle, and your daughter would have yours as hers. Theodore Wesley Angle and Margaret @nderson Angle.

Name update!

Hi, Swistle! I’m able to send you an update much sooner than I’d expected, because Baby Boy Angle-with-an-E decided to surprise us by arriving on March 25, a full month before he was due! We hadn’t made much more progress on his name by that point, so we took our list of four to the hospital and spent a day and a half trying to figure out who he was. But none of those four felt quite right, so we scrapped them all and started over again.

Eventually it occurred to us that March 25 is the Feast of the Annunciation, which inspired us to take another look at Gabriel–which had been on our original long list but gotten tossed for trivial reasons back when we were tossing just for the sake of narrowing down the options. And since our last name even means “angel” in German, it seemed meant to be (although hopefully subtle enough to not be obnoxiously cutesy!). So our boy is Gabriel @nderson Angle-with-an-E, and we love it. (The initials GAE did give me pause for a moment, but the name feels so perfect otherwise that we decided to not care–it’s a statement *against* homophobia, anyway, because “gay” isn’t an insult. :) )

Thanks so much again to you and the commenters for all the fun conversation!

Cheers,
Steph

Our first was hard to name. We had 5 names, all of which my husband loved, but none felt ‘right.’ Once she was born both of us just KNEW she was Olivia. Even though it was neither of our top names.

Hoping for similar success with our second girl, but we can’t even get a list of 5. My last name is Wendelborn. Olivia is Olivia Park (a family name, and its short, Olivia is a lot of syllables).

We have the following but none feel right:

Peyton (I dont like boy/girl names, but my husband loves it).
Sloan(e) (too manly? we also like it without the e so people dont say “sloan-ey” but everyone says the e makes it a girl)
Addilynn (I dont love)
Ella (too spanish?)
Emma
Lucy (this and Emma above seem kind of boring)
Saylor (I love it, but my husband doesn’t, and I”m scare to commit to an unusual name if he isn’t on board)
Rowan (same as Saylor, means little red head, and would only do it if she has red hair (very likely) but might need another red head name)
Amelia (family name, lots of good nicknames, I dont love Amelia, but as far as family names Amelia and Olivia were sisters)
Claire
Caroline (this and Claire, pretty but a little boring like Emma, Ella, etc)
Charlotte (pretty name, but no quick nicknames when talking to her, we call Olivia “livi” when we need a quick name)

We’re all over the place. Help!

I was curious about the usage rates for Sloan/Sloane. Here’s what we have for 2014:

Sloan: 336 F, 72 M
Sloane: 874 F, 6 M

So while it does look as if parents opting to use the name for a boy strongly prefer the Sloan spelling, and parents opting to use the name for a girl somewhat prefer the Sloane spelling, both spellings are used for girls and I think you could take your pick. I’m hoping we have a commenter who has experience with the Sloane spelling; I wouldn’t have expected people to pronounce it Sloan-ey, but I haven’t had experience with it to know.

The name Sloan(e) doesn’t seem manly to me; I’m familiar with it as a name used mostly for girls. It is quite a change from the syllables/style of Olivia. I wonder if it would make a good middle name? It seems nicely similar to Park. Something like Olivia Park and Amelia Sloan is pleasing. But perhaps you have another good family name for the middle.

I wonder if you’d like Fiona or Sophia or Josephine? They all remind me of the sounds of Sloan and Rowan.

With the sister name Olivia, my favorite name for a possible redhead is Rose. Olivia and Rose. So pretty. And Rose Wendelborn sounds spectacular to me: I want it for my own name.

I love Olivia and Amelia together, and I love that the namesakes were also sisters.

Olivia and Charlotte are great together, and a quick nickname for Charlotte is Lottie. Livi and Lottie! Charming.

Ella doesn’t feel Spanish to me. I like it in style with Olivia, but it feels maybe a little L-heavy with it: Olivia and Ella feels like I am making a lot of the same sounds, except that Ella has fewer of them. I also find Ella Wendelborn a little difficult to say.

I like Olivia and Claire together, too. I like the way they LOOK together, too. Not that that’s important, just appealing.

If I were in charge of your list of five, this is how I’d do it:

Sophia
Amelia
Charlotte
Claire
Fiona

plus Rose as a bonus name, if she’s a redhead or even if she’s not.

Name update!

First of all, you have no idea how much your advice and your reader’s advice helped. Ella was ruled out pretty quickly – Charlotte was a top contender, and Sloane we still loved, but it never really ‘went’ with Olivia. Even though we didn’t take everyone’s suggestions, it took us from ‘all over the place’ to a handful of solid name suggestions.

Ms. Emma Alexandra Wendelborn was born last Tuesday. With her strawberry blonde hair, and big sister Olivia’s love for the name Emma on our list, it fit her perfectly.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Dear Swistle,

I am four months pregnant with our second girl (did the early blood test) and desperately want some input on our naming situation. My husband and I have been married for almost six years now and have been constantly playing the “What would we name our future children?” game. We have a long list of boys names we love and we generally like and dislike the same boy names. HOWEVER. In six years of playing this game, we came up with exactly one girls’ name and we’ve already given it to our first daughter: Lydia Belle. The name Lydia has been my favorite since I read it in a book when I was nine. When I told my husband what it was, I *may* have prefaced it by saying, “If you hate this name, part of me might die.” He said ok, suggested the middle name, and there was never any question about our daughter’s name after that. Around the same time we discussed my favorite name my husband said his favorite girls name was Jennica and I was…not enthusiastic. I love classic girls names like Charlotte, Emma, Isabelle, etc, and to me Jennica is a solid 90’s name. I told him that I didn’t hate it (I really have nothing against this name, I’m fine with the way it sounds and all, it’s just not my style) but it definitely wasn’t in my top ten. I also said I’d be more amenable if we spelled it Jenica (more traditional spelling that was used in places like Russia before the 90s).

Well after we found out we’re having another girl, my husband starting referring to her as Jenica. When I protested, he said, “But we used your favorite name, why can’t we use mine? You said you were ok with Jenica. Lydia wasn’t in my top ten, but you really liked it, so I said yes.” The problem is, he has a point. And there aren’t any other names I’m REALLY liking right now. I have a few I like, but none of them are grabbing me, so part of me agrees with him. I’m ok with the name, and I don’t have one I love, so why not let him use his favorite name? The other part of me, though, doesn’t want to use a name I’m not in love with. I’ve been poring over name lists and discussing names with my husband, but today he admitted he is having a hard time giving any other name a fair shot because of how much he loves Jenica. He’s told me I could give her whatever middle name I want, but he’s really feeling that Jenica is the perfect name for this girl. I felt exactly the same way about Lydia, so I understand where he’s coming from. What would you do? Any great suggestions of names similar to Jenica that I could get him to love? Or should I start learning to love it for his sake? Does it sound too 90s to anyone but me?

Oh, and a few notes: I dislike the nicknames Jen and Jenny. Also, our last name is Van Leeuwen (pronounced van loo-en), so neither of us wants to use a name that is hard to pronounce or spell. The only name we both kind of like is Anaelle (pronounced on-eye-yell), but we’ve already agreed that if we used it, it would have to stay in middle name territory (for above reason).

Any advice would be great! Thanks!

Megan

It WOULD be nice if your husband could have his first choice this time, since you got your first choice last time. But it’s difficult to compare how much he liked the name Lydia to how much you like the name Jenica; it could be that it’s not at all a fair swap. And the quickness/easiness with which he agreed to Lydia, compared to the difficulty you’re having with the name Jenica even though you really, really want him to give him his choice this time, tells me it is indeed not a similar sacrifice.

I am influenced as well by agreeing with you that the name Jenica sounds a little dated: it makes me think of Jessica and Jennifer and Erica and Jenna and Nicole, while Lydia is a current vintage-revival choice.

Well. As I was trying to figure out what to advise, it occurred to me that Jenica also reminds me of Annika, which is a much more current choice, and is similar to the name Anaelle you both like. I like Lydia and Annika together in a way I don’t feel about Lydia and Jenica, and the nickname Annie has a sweet classic sound. Liddy and Annie! I have a strong feeling about this, like I want to grab a fistful of your shirt-front in one hand and your husband’s shirt-front in my other hand and say “ANNIKA” very intensely until you both nod.

It is great when baby-naming can work out perfectly fairly, but it rarely does: one parent cares a lot more about names, or one parent has better family names or a better family, or one parent’s surname is used for all the children, or WHATEVER. I do feel it’s important for you both to feel happy about the names, and I hope your husband WAS and IS happy about the name Lydia—but whether or not he was/is, I think the fairest of all is for you both to be happy with this next child’s name. You are being so understanding and well-intentioned about this, and it makes me even more hope that this all works out beautifully for both of you.

For now I suggest giving everything a little time. I suggest that he pretend there is some reason Jenica is off the table (for example, he could pretend that your first daughter had been named Jenica), and see if he can find more names he likes WITHOUT trying to compare them to the name Jenica. And in the meantime, the name may grow on you—or perhaps you or he will come up with another option you both love. I don’t think it would be a good idea to commit to it when you’re uncertain AND there’s still lots of time left.

Name update:

Hi Swistle!

I wrote in over a year ago about my baby naming dilemma and I’m finally back for an update! First, my brief explanation of why it took me so long to get back to you. My husband is in medical school and had applied to transfer schools. My daughter was born on July 4th and on July 5th my husband was notified that he had been accepted at his new school and needed to be there by the 14th. We packed up everything and were on our way by July 12th with a 20 month old and an 8 day old! It’s funny to look back on now, but it was definitely super stressful. All the excitement and stress of moving made me completely forget about coming back to update you, so I apologize that it has taken so long!

I read your advice and all the comments and was surprised by the number of people who thought Jenica fit with Lydia. I showed it to my husband as well and he was a little annoyed that I made it sound like he just AGREED to the name Lydia and insisted that he really liked the name, too, he just didn’t go on about it since I was already sold. I pointed out that there was no way I could have known that since he didn’t tell me in the first place! Men. We sat down and made a deal about the name: For two weeks, I would call the baby Jenica whenever I thought about her or talked about her. In exchange, he would spend those two weeks calling her his second favorite name (which happened to be Mira). After about a week of this, he suggested using the middle name Rose and at that point I knew he was going to get his favorite name because part of me loved the sound of Jenica Rose. At the end of the two weeks I couldn’t imagine calling her anything other than Jenica. Even my old favorite names didn’t seem to fit her anymore. I still wasn’t head over heels in love with the name, but I knew it was her name. My husband was a little shy of committing to the name, though, because he was worried that my dislike/apathy for the name would make me resent it. So in a weird twist of fate, I had to convince HIM that we should name her Jenica. She’s now eight months old and we definitely picked the right name for her! The more I hear it the less dated it sounds to me and I’ve had many people tell me they love her name and/or the spelling. Oh, and since I dislike the nickname Jenny, we call her Jena for short!

I’ve attached two pictures, one of Miss Jenica Rose at six months old and another of her with her sister Lydia Belle (age 2) when she was seven months. Thank you again for your advice!

Dear Swistle,

Our fifth baby and likely last baby is due at the end of March. My husband and I typically have a very hard time coming to an agreement on names and this time has proved to be no different. We have a son Charles Martin IV (nn Huck), son Isaac Scott, daughter Katherine Elizabeth (nn Kate), and son Seth Ulysses.

I would like to use my maiden name Keller. I also like the name Elliot but not nearly as much as Keller. My husband likes the name Xavier. His 2nd choice is Henry. My husband says that Keller is a last name not a first name. I pointed out that many last names have become first names throughout the years. I am not a fan of either of his choices – Xavier – the fact that it is pronounced with a Z not X (I’ve asked around and everyone seems to have a differing opinion on how to pronounce it) and Henry is more popular than I would like. I know it is popular but I would consider Andrew (nn Drew in honor of a friend). Husband likes Oliver.

We do not want names that end in “n” as our last name ends with an “n”, not a super popular name, and something that is easy to spell (I grew up spelling my name). I like names that have an “L” in them as our last name begins with “L” but not first names that begin with “L” (too alliterative for my taste).

If we were having a girl – we would have used Caroline or Charlotte.

Help us come to an agreement or rather – how can I convince him to use my maiden name?

Thank you!

Am I assuming correctly that your first child is named after your husband? That is, that his names and his family tradition were used for your first child, presumably as he wished? If I were you I think I’d lean on that a bit here. It is a BIG DEAL to essentially allow previous generations of your husband’s family to name your firstborn, and I believe you deserve a little more of a reason from him for not using your maiden name than “it’s a last name not a first name.” Pardon me, husband, but Charles and Martin are ALSO surnames, as are Xavier, Henry, and Oliver.

And am I further assuming correctly that all of your children have your husband’s last name? That is, that his family name is being carried on in every single one of their names?

One reason I chose to do this question is that indignation gets me going, as demonstrated already in this answer. The second reason is that by purest coincidence, so pure and so coincidental that I will not blame you if you pause to wonder about my honesty and integrity, I encountered a Keller yesterday. It was in a natural context, where I overheard the name being used; my mom and I refer to that as “the mall test,” based on early experiences hearing names used at the mall and finding our reactions were not always as we’d expect. For example, sometimes we’d overhear a name on our favorites list, and hearing it used was what knocked it right out of the running; other times, we’d hear a name we didn’t even think we liked, and suddenly felt it was an extremely awesome name.

Where was I? Oh, yes: I was waiting for an appointment, and one employee called out to another employee nearby, “Keller, do you have those test results?” And I thought, “!!!!” The Keller in question was a grown man, and my impression was unexpectedly favorable. That is, if I had tried to answer this question before that experience, I might have fretted that Keller sounded feminine because of the name Kelly; after hearing a man called Keller, my impression was that it was unisex leaning masculine and worked very nicely on a guy. Checking current U.S. usage, I see that in 2014 there were 29 new baby girls and 168 new baby boys named Keller. (That is, the FIRST NAME was Keller. Point this out to your husband.)

A third reason I chose to do this question is that there are few things that give me as much of a thrill as when it works out to use the mother’s maiden name as a child’s first name. Oh to have been born a Wilson, a Simon, a Davis, a Clark, a Charles, a Henry—rather than a difficult Dutch surname that would make a terrible first name! The name Keller represents a style shift from the sibling names, but I feel as if the explanation makes it completely reasonable—and it helps that your Charles is called Huck.

I will not attack your husband for not wanting to use a name: if he really dislikes the name Keller, I’d reluctantly agree that he should have more of a say in it than I should. But I do think he needs to make sure that he is being fair. “It’s a last name” is a reason that does not coincide with reality: yes, it’s a “surname name,” but it is in fact being used as a first name, as are many other surnames. And if my assumptions are correct about him wanting to make your first child a IV, and about using his surname for every single one of your children, then I believe he should WANT if at all possible to make room for your family name. If “it’s a last name” turns out to be a fake reason and the real reason is that he dislikes the name, then perhaps Keller could be used as the middle name.

Name update!

Dear Swistle,

Our sweet boy Peter Augustus was born 3 weeks ago.  I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated reading through your post and the following reader comments.  A few readers mentioned the importance of marital harmony when picking a name and that really resonated with us.

Peter was a name on both of our lists – actually the only name in common – and Augustus is in honor of a family member.  As much as I really wanted Keller for a first name, I was a bit hesitant as I was called killer a few times growing up.  I didn’t like Peter Keller (too many -ers) and felt that Augustus matched our 4th child’s middle name (Ulysses) as both being a bit of a wild card.  Thank you so much for your help.

Dear Swistle,

My husband and I are expecting a baby girl in early February – our first and maybe only child. I’ve been nerding out on name blogs since before I got pregnant, but it’s hard to find one that works in reality. Neither of us want a popular name – nothing in the top 100 or so. However, we keep coming up with names that are relatively rare but perhaps too similar to popular names. Ideally, I’d like a longer, elegant name, with a two syllable nickname ending in the -ee sound to call her at home. I’m picky about nicknames – I don’t like ones that sound too common or sound like a boy’s name. Our last name sounds like Phl@th.

My husband really likes Lenora (ranked around #1600 in 2014), which I think is lovely, but the issue is with what nickname to use. He says Nora, but when you combine the number of girls named Nora (#49) and Norah (#163), the name “Nora” actually ranks in the top 25. So if we call her Nora, or if she decides she wants to go by Nora, we would have inadvertently given her a popular name. Other potential nicknames are Nori, or Lennie, which is also problematic because it sounds like the nickname for an old man Leonard. Some alternatives to Lenora we are considering are Lenore, which doesn’t flow as nicely, and Leona.

Our other top name is Mirah. Again, the name itself is fairly rare (together, Mira and Mirah ranked around #600). However, it sounds very similar to more popular names such as Mia and Mila, so I worry that Mirah would still seem trendy and not unique. I’m also having a hard time committing to Mirah because it’s only two syllables. We don’t want to lengthen to Mirabelle because someone close to us has that as a last name. We are considering Vera as an alternative, but we don’t like it as much, and Vivi might be too trendy of a nickname.

We considered Rosalie, until I discovered that when you add up all names that include some form of Rose, there are about 7,000 girls who could go by Rose/Rosie as a nickname, which is essentially in the top 25. We also like Violetta, pronounced Vee-oh-letta, but Violet is climbing in popularity, and it would be too annoying to us that it would often be mispronounced with a long i sound.

Other names I like that my husband vetoed: Felicity, Fiona, Melody, Miranda (another way to get to Mirah), Camilla

I would love to get some perspective from you and your readers about whether our favorite names come off as too popular or trendy.

Thank you!
Julia

Lenora makes me think of the name Linnea (lih-NAY-ah), nickname Linnie.

The spelling Mirah is not one I’m familiar with; I wouldn’t be sure how to pronounce it. My first guess would probably be like Myra, because the spelling makes me think of the name Micah. If I knew it was a short-I sound, I might think the emphasis was on the second syllable, like the words hurrah and mirage—not because I’d think that was likely, but because the puzzle-solving part of my brain would be wondering why the H was at the end, as I would if I saw the name Kirah or Emmah.

I think it’s normal to be attracted to the sounds that are currently popular, even if you’re looking for a less popular name. Lenora feels unusual to me, but the nickname Nora feels very current. Mirah, even with an unusual spelling, feels current to me, fitting in with Kira and Lilah and Aria and so forth. The best way to avoid names that are popular (or could become popular) is to choose sounds that are not currently in favor—but that means choosing a name many people won’t like the sound of, including you. I’m not sure it’s worth it.

Remember that if you restructure the rankings by adding up spellings, nicknames, etc., you have to restructure ALL the rankings. That is, if Rose and Nora are added to the Top 25, they kick out two names that are currently residing there. Or, perhaps they themselves get kicked back out of the Top 25, by other names that would join the Top 25 if we combined spellings/nicknames.

I think it’s excellent to use the available data and to make sure you’re not falling into traps—but a number that looks large when it’s national (such as 7,000 girls who could theoretically use the name or nickname Rose) can be hard to figure out at the local-school-classroom level. And there’s no way to predict the particular local classroom, either: we’ve had only one Rose and one Nora in all the kids’ classrooms combined, but another commenter could easily report that her child has had Roses, Rosalies, Rosies, and Noras in every single classroom and extracurricular.

I suggest asking yourselves this question: “Which name do we LIKE BEST?” Pretend for a moment that popularity is not an issue. Pretend it doesn’t matter if your daughter occasionally encounters another child with the same name, or if her name is occasionally confused with another name, or if other people think the name you chose is popular or trendy. When your minds are as clear as you can get them, think: “If we could use any name we wanted, which one would it be?”

The thing is, you CAN use any name you want. You can use the name you like BEST. And if other people also like that name, that’s happy! If other people think the name is trendy—well, I agree that’s annoying. But if you’d used a different name, other people might think the name was weird, or boring, or trying too hard, or silly, or any number of other things people think about names.

Name update!

Our daughter Mira Lark “Phl@th” was born earlier this month. We were still debating her name the day after she was born — we also considered Lenore or Miranda in the hospital, but decided to go with Mira because even though it’s not perfect, we kept coming back to it and it seemed more right than the others. I told myself to stop caring that it sounds trendy. The feedback from you and your readers about how the h confuses the pronunciation in Mirah convinced us to drop the h. We chose Lark because I like irreverent word names for middle names, my husband likes birds, and it flows well with the first name almost like a three syllable name. Interestingly, the scientific name for a genus of larks is Mirafra, which was a pleasant coincidence. Although we didn’t want to use Mirabelle as a given name, I’m using it as a cute nickname for her.
Thanks for the help!
Julia

Hi Swistle!

My husband and I are expecting our first baby in mid June. We’re both from large families and are hoping for around 6 of our own.

We’re fairly traditional in terms of taste in names, but like the more unused classics. I’d say that our theme is “British Parliament:” names that sound like they could belong within old, established English families. Our last name is English/Scottish and rhymes with Eaves, starting with R.

The problem is that we’d like to name the baby after my husband, if he’s a boy. His name is Tyler James, and though I’m okay with having a junior, I’m having trouble deciding what to call him so he’ll fit in with the names we’d like to give future children (i.e. a brother named Winston). Tyler is too ’90s to me, not to mention confusing around the house but I’m not a big fan of calling him James, because of a negative association and because of the double S sound when you add in our last name. I’d be okay with nicknames for James, just not TJ or JT.

Would love your thoughts and advice- chances are, even if this baby is a girl, we’ll run into our “junior” situation one day!

All the best,

Madeleine

The more I work on baby-naming questions and issues, the more I notice that SO MUCH of choosing names boils down to making choices that eliminate other choices. On one hand, of course that’s what it boils down to: when you choose one name, you are not-choosing all the others. But it took me a long time to realize that the same thing happens with preferences, and with style categories, and so forth: certain choices rule out other choices.

Your letter is an excellent example: you want to use traditional/British/classic names, AND you want to have a junior, AND you want sibling names to coordinate. Because your husband’s name is a modern surname name and not at all traditional, British, or classic, something’s got to go: the three preferences can’t all be met. You can have a junior, and also give the rest of your children British Parliament names, if you give up the preference for sibling-name coordination. Or you can have sibling-name coordination and British Parliament names, if you give up the preference of having a junior. Or you can have sibling name coordination and a junior, if you give up the preference for British Parliament names. The trick is to choose which element of the three is least important to you.

Doesn’t that sound simple? But we know it isn’t, not at all. For one thing, the desire for a junior may not be evenly spread between you. You mention that “we’d” like to name the baby after your husband, but then you say you’re “okay with” that. So it may be that of the three elements that can’t co-exist, your husband would rank “having a junior” as most important, and you would mark it as least important.

The proposed solution seems to be to give your husband a junior—but then never call the child by any of his own names, because those names are not your style and/or have negative associations. This is where I start to ask just how important it is to have a junior, and WHY it is so important: at the point where you are giving a child names you don’t like and won’t use, the price of having a junior seems too high for the value received. At some point I think the line needs to be drawn: “We wanted this, and under different circumstances we could have had it, but in these actual circumstances it is not going to work even if we try to force it. It is sad, but there it is.”

It is probably increasingly clear that my own vote for least-important element is the junior. But if there is no getting around that, then my vote is to name him Tyler James and call him James. James goes just fine with names such as Winston: it may be plainer and/or more common than you’d prefer, but the style coordinates and doesn’t clash. The concern about the repeating S sound seems so minor compared to the other issues at stake here, I think it’s a well-worthwhile trade: a minor preference abandoned so that you can keep all three major ones.

Only you know if you can get past the negative association you have with the name James. But it seems to me that if you don’t like the first name and you have a negative association with the middle name, that brings us back to the idea that sadly it is just not going to work to have a junior in this situation. Perhaps your husband could be mollified by using Tyler as the middle name for one child and James as the middle name for another.

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

You (and your incredible readers!) helped us out on your December 28th ’15 post. We had our baby boy on June 21st and named him Tyler James. So far he’s being called Jay and James and we’re both happy with our choice!

You eloquently explained the issue of conflicting preferences in names and led us to some meaningful discussions for priorities in naming our brood, so thank you for that. We are also planning on using some of the terrific suggestions for names in the comments for future kids, so thanks to all!

Madeleine

Hi Swistle!

I have been reading your blog for years, and my husband and I are thrilled to be expecting our first baby in May – a girl! We compiled a large list of names and have narrowed it down to five, but none seem to stand out.

If we were having a boy, his name would be William. The popularity of the name bothers me a bit, but it is a family name, so I feel we can make an exception. I also like Charles. We would like to keep William as an option for a future boy, and we hope to have two to three children, although after IVF we know nothing is guaranteed.

Our finalists are:
Margaret
Camilla
Eleanor
Juliet
Rosalie

Names I love but my husband vetoed include Anna, Grace and Lydia. Names my husband loves but I vetoed include Eliza and Amelia. Our last name is Peters@n.

Our top joint picks from this list would probably be Eleanor and Camilla. We both love Eleanor but I am quite concerned about it’s rapidly rising popularity. Camilla is nice as well, although perhaps a bit too “royal” with a potential brother named William? I love Margaret (nn Greta), but I don’t know that I can get my husband fully on board. He has a negative association with another common nickname for Margaret.

We would love the opinion of you and your readers. Nothing seems as perfect or obvious as William for a boy!

I do think Camilla with William has a strong royal feeling—particularly if you may also want to use Charles. William itself is so diluted through common usage that it doesn’t seem too royal on its own (even, I think, with another common-and-also-royal name such as Margaret or Henry), but for many of us, royal Camilla is a strong association. In addition, Camilla and William have a lot of shared sounds, including the entire -ill- sound. In fact, each name has only one unshared letter.

I wonder if you’d like the name Millicent. It’s similar to Camilla, but loses the royal association and gains some different sounds. It has the sweet nickname Milly/Millie.

Felicity is another option, and seems similar in sound and style to many of the names on your list.

Or Cecily.

Margaret and Juliet make me think of Violet.

If possible, I think you shouldn’t let the increasing popularity of the name Eleanor scare you off. It’s a lovely name, and I think it goes very well with your surname and with potential future brothers William and Charles.

Would you like Eloise? It’s similar to Eleanor and Eliza.

Name update:

Swistle,

I have been meaning to write as our little one is over five weeks old! We went with Eleanor, despite the rising popularity. I only had a mild meltdown when the 2015 social security list was released and Eleanor continued its rapid ascent. :) We are calling her Eleanor or Leni, which helps alleviate some of the popularity of Elle, Ellie, and Nora.

At the end of the day, Eleanor was the name we truly loved, and if we are lucky enough to have more children, I feel it pairs well with William and our other top choices. Thanks to you and your readers for your thoughtful comments!