Hi Swistle! Hoping you and your readers can help me out. Sabine is tied right up there as one of my favorite girl names. I first heard it in Germany, where it’s pronounced “suh-BEAN-uh” (it is also a French name, but pronounced “suh-BEAN” in France. We prefer the German pronunciation). But, here’s my quandary: would people who hear it just think that the baby’s name was Sabrina?

I love(!) this name, but really don’t want to saddle a child with being misheard all her life when she introduces herself.

Ta!
Robin

I think the bigger issue is that people will think the name is spelled Sabina (if they hear it) or pronounced sah-BEEN (if they see it). If you were spelling it Sabina and asking if it would be confused with Sabrina, I would be shrugging and saying, “Well, sure, sometimes it will be, but many names are mistaken for other names, and all you have to do is make the correction.” A Claire can be mistaken for a Clara, or a Kristen for a Kirsten, or an Alissa for an Alicia, and I wouldn’t let that stop me from using any of those names. Parent and child both get accustomed to pronouncing it very clearly the first time and to correcting it periodically, and it isn’t a big deal.

However, in your case you wish to use a familiar name with an unfamiliar pronunciation. This is not a perfect example (it’s a more extreme case), but it’s similar to naming a daughter Caitlin and wanting it pronounced the Irish way, which is more like Cathleen: in that case I would advise spelling it Cathleen, rather than trying to override the already-familiar U.S. pronunciation of KATE-lin. And that’s the same suggestion I would make for Sabine: I would spell it Sabina, if that is how you would like it pronounced. I would consider that a matter of translating the name into the American English alphabet, as we’d change Annike to Annika, or Eoin to Owen.

I’m definitely not saying I think names should always be spelled as they are pronounced. You would not catch me, for example, advocating that Chloe should be spelled Cloey or Daphne should be spelled Daffnie, just to help out American English speakers. American English speakers have become accustomed to many names that are not spelled as we’d pronounce them phonetically: Chloe, Daphne, Isla, Zoe. But in this case you are trying to use a name that is already familiar with one pronunciation and asking to have it pronounced a different way. It would be like using the name Daphne and asking people to pronounce it Daff-na; or bringing the name Chloe here after we already had a name spelled that way but pronounced Clo. It’s not impossible, but it’s an additional hurdle: you not only have to teach people how to pronounce it, you have to override how they are already pronouncing it. (Note: this may not be relevant if you live in an area of the U.S. with a large German/Dutch population.)

But spelling it Sabina is such an obvious solution to the problem, it leads me to this question: Do you have a particular reason you don’t want to? It can definitely happen that a small change makes a huge difference in the way the parents feel about a name: many of us, for example, are likely to feel very differently about the name Catherine versus the name Kathryn, or Claire versus Clara, so you are in good company if you feel the same way about Sabine versus Sabina.

If the only way you like it is if it is spelled Sabine, I think you can decide it’s worth the hassle—but I do think it will be a hassle, more than the usual hassle of Kristen/Kirsten or Sophia/Sofia.

Name update:

Hi Swistle!

Baby girl was born September 25! A surprise to both my husband and I was that we couldn’t quite figure out her name; with her brothers, the names seemed to fit them straight out of the womb. Part of the problem was that she had been dubbed “Hortense” in utero, and initially no other name felt as right. 😂 We bandied about names for the better part of a week – Marguerite, Aletheia, Thea, Colette – but ultimately came back to what we had thought all along. Baby girl has been Sabine Nina-Elaine for almost a week now, and it fits her perfectly. Thanks to you and your readers for all your advice!

Robin

Hello!

I love the Swistle community! The help we received during my first pregnancy was a highlight for me and helped me solidify my choice to use Esther Elizabeth as our first daughter’s name. We chose the names to honor two amazing grandmothers.

Based on the difficulty of that decision, we didn’t have a huge base of family names we loved to choose from. Now we want to stay with a family/traditional name, but are debating what the right choice will be.

The most popular front runner for most of this pregnancy has been Edith. I like the idea of Esther and Edith (two baby grannies) I also like the nn Edie. I just feel like I have to keep looking to make sure it is perfect. Edith was a beloved great aunt on my mother’s side and I believe it would be an honor to her children to use her name.

If I go with Edith I was debating if it would feel more regal or powerful if I went with an alternate spelling such as Edythe, then her nn could be Edy? The issue is that I don’t want her to always have to say “I’m edith with a y and an e at the end”. I just love how that spelling looks. With such a common last name as Davis I also like the idea of being more unique somewhere else. however I don’t want to burden a child with a fussy name.

In addition to our concern about loving the first name enough, i really wanted to use Rae or RaeAnn as the middle name to honor my mother. We had debated this the first time as well. An Edith Rae sounds very southern to us (not like that’s a bad thing!) and we were hoping for a more classic sound like her sister has.

Our due date is Feb. 18th. We would love hearing from this expert name community again.

Thank you.

My vote is to keep the Edith spelling, especially if that was the way the beloved great-aunt spelled it. I don’t think changing the spelling improves it, and it adds the fussiness complications you’re hoping to avoid. I think you could spell the nickname Edy even if you spelled the name Edith (just as an Addison can be Addi, Addie, or Addy), though my own preference is for Edie either way.

I agree with you that the mood of the name Edith RaeAnn is not quite the same as the mood of the name Esther Elizabeth. I think it will come down to which is more important to you, the honor name or the mood of the name. Those two choices sound as if I’m trying to say the honor name should be more important, but that is not how I feel about it: I think both things are important, and sometimes one thing wins and sometimes the other does. With my own kids’ names, sometimes I went one way and sometimes the other.

My own favorite here would be something like Edith Josephine. Do you have a Joseph in the family tree, perhaps? Or Edith Margaret. Or you could go all-out on E names and name her Edith Eleanor.

Getting back to Josephine/Joseph, that might be a good idea for finding more family names in general: see if any of the men’s names can be feminized. Henry/Henrietta, Charles/Charlotte, George/Georgia, Louis/Louisa, Francis/Frances, Philip/Philippa, Robert/Roberta, Frederick/Fredrika, etc.

If you are not quite set on Edith, it might be fun to discuss other options. Ruth, for example, is similar in style and shares the -th. I love the nickname Ruthie. Ruth Davis; Esther and Ruth.

Or Winifred. I so love the name Winifred. Winifred Davis; Esther and Winifred.

Sylvia is pretty. Sylvia Davis; Esther and Sylvia.

I have an unbroken track record of getting no one at all to agree to use Millicent. Shall we break that record? Millicent Davis; Esther and Millicent.

Name update:

Hello!  I have a name update.
We are so happy that our swistle email was answered.  We spent a lot of time contemplating this name and are so very grateful for everyone’s advice.

We chose Edith Frances Rae (two middle names) as the baby’s name.  As we are unsure if we will have another child I decided that I wanted to feel like I chose a name that I loved that wasn’t necessarily an honor name.  I have always liked Frances and am happy to be able to include it.  My father’s middle name is frank so it can also be a loose tribute to him.  I added Rae as a second middle name so I could have it included as a tribute.  I have 4 names so I felt this wouldn’t be so out of the norm.  Thanks swistle universe!

We are about 3 weeks out from having our 3rd child, a boy! We think we’ve settled on a first name but we’re really debating on a middle name. I would love to hear the vote of you and your readers. Our last name is is Kirpatrick with another K in there. We are pretty positive this baby’s first name will be Keller. As for middle names, we have 2 front contenders and cannot decide.

Option 1: Jonah. Keller Jonah.
My oldest son just turned 3 and since he found out he was having a little brother has been insistent on naming him Jonah. We have no idea where it came from, we don’t know any Jonahs, we don’t think he’s been exposed to the name Jonah at all. We think it would be pretty cool to honor that request by giving the baby the middle name Jonah.

Pros: It seems cute that the baby was partially named by his older brother.

Cons: Keller Jonah would not have any family significance, which our other two kids do (Our other two kids are named after my husband’s father who passed away and my mother who passed away)

Option 2: Barnett. Keller Barnett
Barnett was my mother’s maiden name and is my brother’s middle name, so there is family significance. I don’t love it, but I like it. My mom was already honored in my daughter’s name, but I guess there can’t be too many honor names? My brother would probably be happy, but he wouldn’t really care in the long run. I can’t decide if I like the look of the double letters in both names.

Pros: Family name like his siblings
Cons: The family name is from my side, which I kind of feel bad about. My daughter is named after my mother and sister. I feel like if we do another family name it should be from my husband’s mom’s side, but I don’t really like any of the names (I’ll list below)

Other options:
Richard (Husband’s middle name, MIL’s father’s name) -Keller Richard Kirpatrick sounds like a mouthful of Rs.
Powell (MIL’s father’s middle name) Keller Powell Kirpatrick doesn’t flow

Any boy names you can derive from Nancy or Anne? I can’t think of any.

So what do you think? Family name or name arbitrarily created by a 3 year old?

Any and all advice is appreciated!

Thanks so much in advance if you choose to address this question!

Kaeleen

Two of my many name-related soft spots are “names chosen by siblings” and “maiden names,” so this is a pretty happy question.

I don’t think it’s crucial that a whole name flows together nicely, but I do prefer a nice flow when all else is equal, so I tried saying both Keller Jonah Kirpatrick and Keller Barnett Kirpatrick aloud. I had a harder time saying the latter, but not a deal-breakingly hard time.

I have a slight preference too for the way the name Jonah keeps the name from being three surname names in a row. But again: slight. Not enough to make the decision.

I have a preference for giving everyone an honor name. But after breaking this preference with my own kids’ names and finding I cared less in the long run than I expected to, I have modified this preference to “everyone gets a similarly-good naming story.” That is, I think if two kids get honor-name stories and one kid has a sibling-chose-the-name story, those are equivalent. Especially when the parents are running out of honor names they want to use.

I also do like Keller Richard Kirpatrick, but I get the impression from the letter that it’s not a strong contender.

I can’t think of a good Nancy/Anne namesake, either. Some people like to match meanings, so that’s a possibility if it appeals. But it feels like less of a pleasing story to me than the other options.

I keep wanting to start a paragraph with “I find myself leaning toward…”—but then I change my mind as soon as I pick one! First I thought I felt more warmly about using Jonah, and then I thought I felt more warmly about using Barnett, and then back to Jonah, and then back to Barnett. If we were in the maternity ward with the new baby and you MADE me choose, RIGHT now…I think I would choose Jonah. But then all the way home I would be thinking, “Wait, was that right? Should I have said Barnett? Maybe I should call her back.”

Well. I had a similar conundrum with Henry’s middle name: three excellent choices and none of them had an extra edge over any of the others. What finally settled my mind was thinking that this meant there probably really WASN’T a “best choice”: we just had to pick one, and we were very unlikely to be sorry about ANY of the three excellent choices.

But what I think we should do here is a POLL! Polls are fun, and also it may sway your feelings—especially if you find you’re hoping the results will come out one way or the other. I had trouble deciding if Richard should go in there or not; I eventually came down on the side of no, but I think commenters should go ahead and say in the comments if they WOULD have voted for that if it had been an option.

[yop_poll id=”74″]

Name update:

Hi Swistle!

I had my baby and wanted to give an update! We wrote to you regarding his middle name. Keller Barnett, Keller Jonah, or something different?

After one commenter pointed out that Keller Barnett sounded like a law form, and another said she still feels sour that her older sister got to name her, we fell out of love with both. Neither felt right.

He went a couple days without a middle name but we ultimately decided on Lee. Keller Lee. Lee was my mother’s middle name, my maternal grandfather’s middle name, and my paternal grandmother’s first name. I initially didn’t like it because it felt like an overused name and because I was afraid it would make Keller sound like an adjective (kellerly?) But anyways, it actually felt perfect once he was here.

Thanks for all your help!

Help! I’m 30 weeks along with our second baby girl. Our first, Beckett Grace Martin, will have just turned 4 when she arrives. I loved the idea of androgynous first names with feminine middle names. My immediate first choice was Blake Elizabeth (my middle name was Elizabeth before marriage – I felt it was a mouthful with Beckett but I love it with Blake.) My husband wasn’t totally on board with Blake – worried it was too popular of a boy name. We brainstormed and he loves Clara. I worry it’s too popular (I have historically been anti-top 100 names) and now there is an animated movie coming out called Clara so this concerns me!

We need help! So with our last name Martin we don’t like names that end in -en, and my husband wants to make sure it’s easy for others to spell/pronounce – “a real name” he says! We don’t love names that start with M (Molly Martin) but we aren’t opposed to having two girls who start with a B (Beckett and Blake). Our third and fourth choices were Lana and Liv but we left them in favor of Blake and Clara. But I just don’t know if either will work. Any advice you have would be wonderful!

Thank you!

In the U.S. in 2015, the name Beckett was given to 99 new baby girls and 1,816 new baby boys: it’s a unisex name used mostly for boys. The name Blake is similar: in 2015, it was given to 748 new baby girls and 4,211 new baby boys. The name Clara, on the other hand, was given to 3,049 new baby girls and isn’t in the data base at all for boys: it’s less common overall than the name Blake, but with completely different usage. Lana and Liv are also both unambiguous names used exclusively for girls in the U.S.

I think the first step is to figure out how much this issue matters to the two of you. Some people care approximately zero, and would have two daughters named Max and Molly with no issue at all. Others care to the point of comparing usage on the Social Security data base. Most people are somewhere in between, I think: they don’t want to create a jarring effect, but they want to go with the names they love.

My own preference here would be to find something that is at least unisex, if not unisex-used-mostly-for-boys. That is, I think names such as Avery and Riley would work very nicely, even though those are unisex names used more often in the U.S. for girls. I would not be inclined to choose a name used exclusively for girls for one daughter, after I’d chosen a name used mostly for boys for another. So in this situation I’d cross off Clara, Lena, and Liv, without going so far as to say that I’d prefer the name to be the SAME type of unisex as the name Beckett.

It sounds as if your husband’s main concern with Blake is that it’s too popular of a name for boys—and indeed, it’s used for well over twice as many boys as the name Beckett. What if we looked at names in roughly the popularity range of Beckett? The name was #218 for boys in 2015, so I looked in that range and found these possibilities:

Brady
Elliot
Finn
Spencer
Tanner

I also suggest Ellis and Hollis: both of them, like Beckett, have the option of shortening to a girlish nickname (Beckett/Becky, Ellis/Ellie, Hollis/Holly), yet the full names are used more often for boys. I like both of these options very much.

Micah is another one used mostly for boys, but with elements that make it seem right for girls as well. I like the repeating CK sound with Beckett: Beckett and Micah. Oh, but that is alliterative with the surname.

For something more like Blake, I wonder if any of these would work:

Cole
Drew
Flynn (or Finn, from the list above)
Jude
Kai
Lane
Reese

Or we could look at more surname names: it’s a good way to tie the two names stylistically, without feeling as much pressure to find another name used mostly for boys.

Campbell
Crosby
Emory
Finley
Hadley
Jennings
Keller
Lennox
Padgett
Rooney
Sawyer
Winslow

Name update:

Hi! Our baby girl arrived on March 2 – we made it to 39 weeks!

I can’t tell you how much your post helped us! First, you and your readers gave us so many extra names to consider. We quickly added Spencer, Quinn, Cole, Lane, Campbell, Drew, Collin, and more to our lists to consider. We giggled that so many loved Elliot for Beckett’s sister’s name as this is her 24-year-old uncle’s name so we knew that wouldn’t go over too well with the family. :)

The biggest thing you made us consider though was finding a name that is at least unisex (or unisex used mostly for boys) so that we didn’t have one daughter whose name is used exclusively for girls and the other daughter with a name used mostly for boys. This helped us be more comfortable with stepping away from Clara. Even though we liked it, it just didn’t fit as well.

All of this is to say thank you for helping us land where we started – we ended up feeling more confident in Blake Elizabeth Martin. I love that Blake and Beckett share a B, K, and E, and that it’s one-syllable vs. two and that both girls have unisex-used-mostly-for-boy names. We’re very happy with our choice and can’t thank you enough for your time and talent to helping us name our baby!

Sincerely,
Kelly & Austin Martin

Hi Swistle. I need help naming my baby girl who is due at the end of January.

I love naming other people’s kids but have had the hardest time with my own. I have identical twin boys named Henry and Grey. Our last name sounds like the word myth with an S in front (think: the second most common American last name). When naming my twins, I specifically didn’t want matchy names- especially because they’re identical. I thought/think they balance each other nicely. Henry grounds Grey and Grey modernizes Henry (though Henry is trendier than I anticipated) in my mind. Adding a third name to the duo has me stumped. I feel like one twin name will be the outlier in style depending on which direction I go with a girl name. We will most likely have a fourth child. I used to think I cared more about a well-coordinated “sibset” but my taste in everything else leans a bit eclectic so I have let that go a little bit. A name we love is most important but I also want to like it with the boys’ names. Popularity statistics don’t always translate to real life in my experience so I’m not overly concerned with that either. Though, I think I can safely say I wouldn’t ever want to use a Top 10 name. That said, my girl name list is still all over the place and I’m having a hard time committing. My husband doesn’t really contribute names, he just says yes/maybe or no but is pretty easy to work with. I feel like no progress has been made for a while, though. And now I’m finding myself pretty apathetic about the whole process and I’m not sure why. Have I not found the right name? Do I need to see her first? When we finally settled on Grey and Henry (and their corresponding A and B middles) it was like the stars aligned and it felt just right, like I had solved a satisfying puzzle. I’ve not had that yet. So here is the list:

Perry- A longtime favorite of mine. My husband likes it but isn’t certain it’s “the name”. Probably my front runner but I’m second guessing myself. I like that all kids will share E, R, and Y in their names. Name websites put it in the “crotchety old man names that are cute for girls” section but to me it seems more akin to the Poppy, Posey, Piper set (all names I like, just not on my short list). EDIT: After writing this a childhood friend of my sister named her baby girl Perry! We were so surprised. I NEVER hear this name. She lives in my parents’ neighborhood and goes to church with them and we share many friends and acquaintances in common (and on social media, which is an eyeroll but also reality). I just don’t think it’s usable anymore. She’s very nice and might not mind but it would be startling, I think, for most people to hear me use it a couple months after her. I’m sad but my mind is 99.9% made up that I can’t/won’t use it. I just loved the flavor of this name.

Quincy- Super cute to me. My husband likes it. He prefers Quinn but doesn’t mind a longer given name.

June- Love this name. It’s the month of our anniversary. I’m having a hard time fitting my preferred middle names with it (but that’s not a deal breaker). I also don’t love a one syllable first with a one syllable last name but it’s also not a deal breaker. And I find myself especially attracted to one syllable names so I’m not fighting it.

Hattie- A cute family name. I don’t love the idea of shared first initials, but again, not a deal breaker. This one was well received by my in-laws and my husband had a more positive/enthusiastic reaction to it, as well.

Campbell- Another longtime favorite (before I even had kids) but I’m not sure it’s the one. I love surname first names. I though it was out of the running but my husband brought it up the other day and I remembered how fond of it I am so it’s back on.

Wren- Too similar to Henry? My husband isn’t sold. I love this name. It seems like the perfect girl name to me. But maybe not with my last name?

Greer- Too similar to Grey? There is a small town in our state called Greer that has a lot of meaning for us, especially my husband. I thought I gave up this name for Grey. I felt it was more important to name the male baby I did have versus the female baby I might one day have, which was the right choice. But I’m regretting it now, to an extent.

Frances- Another family tree name. The idea of a little girl nicknamed Frankie makes my ovaries glow. And I love every nickname for Frances. I’m just not sure Frances feels like my baby. But I want it to. The feedback I get when I mention this name is mostly forced smiles, raised eyebrows, and polite nods, which gives me pause.

Names my husband has definitely vetoed: Winnie, Louisa, Elouise, Caroline (he likes the nickname Coco but not Caroline and there are no other long names for Coco that we like), Fallon, Ivy, Arden, and Ada.

If this baby was a boy I was set on Roman. My husband liked Silas (though was worried about all the S sounds with our last name).

What would you choose from our list now that Perry is out? I decided June was my definite pick and have been telling people that’s her name but now I’m not so sure. I feel like I need to meet her first maybe? But I’m open to more suggestions. Nothing could make me more indecisive at this point- ha! Though I’ve entered and re-entered all these names into Nameberry and looked at similar names and lists of names containing my search I am left feeling like there are some I’ve missed or overlooked.

Thanks!

I’d be interested to know how many of us, seeing Henry and June together, think of the 1986 book or the 1990 movie. It seems like a faint connection, and you’ve been crowd-testing the name presumably without anyone bringing it up and you crossing it off the list as a result—but on the other hand, I have neither read the book nor seen the movie, yet I made the association and I know the gist of the plot. On the other-other hand, the names Henry and June ought to be familiar enough to have many associations beyond those. But back to the other hand, for me it’s like Will and Kate: each name separately doesn’t make me think of the royal pair, but the names together immediately do. But back to the other-other hand, it makes me feel sad to consider removing June. It’s such a great name. And I like the way it’s a word name like Grey, but more in the style of Henry, tying it to both.

Wren does feel too similar to Henry to me. And Greer does feel too similar to Grey to me, in appearance as well as in sound. I don’t think that means you CAN’T use them, but the slightly surprising similarity would be part of the package deal of the name.

Let’s see. If we do remove those for similarity, and if we also remove June, we’re left with: Quincy, Hattie, Campbell, Frances.

I love Frances/Frankie so much, and it seems to me that glowing ovaries is a very good sign. I also love that it’s a family name.

I might remove Hattie for its similarity to Henry: not just the starting H, but also the ending y/-ie.

Quincy and Campbell both seem like good options.

I’m interested in the split between the surname/unisex type names on the list (Perry, Quincy, Campbell, Greer) and the more traditional/girl names (June, Hattie, Frances). Do you find yourself leaning more toward one group or more toward the other? Would you be fine with a name from each group if your fourth child is a girl (Quincy and Hattie, for example, or Campbell and Frances), or would you prefer to have both names from the same group? The Campbell and Frances pairing appeals to me in this way: that Campbell has the feminine nickname Cammie, and Frances has the boyish nickname Frankie. Well, of course this doesn’t need to be decided right this minute, but I do think it can be helpful for the narrowing-down process.

Let’s go back to some of the names that are ruled out or might be ruled out, and see if we can find more options.

Perry is an interesting one. The sound to me is light and feminine; the look is out-of-style boy name. I’m also interested in the way the rhyming names are out of style: Barry, Carrie, Gary, Jerry, Larry, Mary, Sherry, Terry—except for Harry, but even that isn’t extremely popular. I wonder if you would like Percy, or Winslow. Percy may be too familiar as a boy name because of the Percy Jackson series. Winslow reminds me of Campbell in that it has a good feminine nickname (Winnie). Oh, but Winnie is on the veto list. Hm.

I’m finding it difficult to think of names similar to June. Jane and Jean and Joan spring to mind, but none seems sufficiently similar, and Jane with your surname seems almost tongue-in-cheek. Well, you know, maybe Joan, now that I think of it longer. I would definitely be ready to hear Joan again, and it has that little zing of surprise. Henry, Grey, and Joan. I do like that.

Or Sloane. Very different in style, but I thought of it because of Joan. Henry, Grey, and Sloane.

Or Luna. It has some similarities in sound, but the style is quite different. Henry, Grey, and Luna.

Rose is a name that’s in my own “similar to June” file, but such things are so subjective. Henry, Grey, and Rose.

Maybe Ruby? Henry, Grey, and Ruby. They all end in -y, which is interesting. Ruby has four letters (and could be considered a color) like Grey, but has two syllables like Henry. I love it with your surname.

I continue to be drawn to the idea of using a name that is a word name like Grey, but is more in the style of Henry. Something like Wren, June, Rose, Ruby. Pearl? Henry, Grey, and Pearl. Opal? Henry, Grey, and Opal.

Lane or Laine? Henry, Grey, and Laine. Cute nickname Laney/Lainey.

I wonder if you’d like Isla. Henry, Grey, and Isla. I might feel a little pressure then for the next child to have a name starting with F or J, to keep all the initials in that little section of the alphabet.

Lark is similar to Wren. Henry, Grey, and Lark.

Mirren is a bit like Perry, a bit like Wren. Henry, Grey, and Mirren.

That makes me think of Minerva, one of my own favorites. Henry, Grey, and Minerva.

Or maybe Cleo? Henry, Grey, and Cleo. Minerva and Cleo both feel to me like adding a third style, which gives you the Happy Assortment in sibling names, instead of having two of one style and one of another style.

The name Greer makes me think of Brooke Shields’s daughter Grier; her other daughter is Rowan. Henry, Grey, and Rowan. Though that rules out Roman if your next baby is a boy.

Name update:

I had the baby this week and we decided on June. We went to the hospital knowing it would be between June, Perry and Campbell. It was an obvious choice once we got to see and meet her- it fits her perfectly. I really appreciated reading everyone’s responses!

Dear Swistle,

As a fellow name nerd, I adore your blog.

When we first started thinking about future children many years ago, my husband and I decided on Edith and Henry, and we were happy to have that done and decided. Three years ago this month, Edith became a reality, and today she is an opinionated toddler. Her baby brother is now due at the end of March.

However, a ton of people must share our taste because since having our first baby, I have met so many tiny Henrys I can’t even count them all, including children of close friends and colleagues. We live in New York City at the moment but travel to the UK a lot, where it is even more common and at number 15 on national name lists. Popularity doesn’t bother me so much conceptually; a lot of nice names are very popular, but from a practical standpoint, I realize he would be Henry P. all throughout school and possibly within work cohorts as well. Also, Edith’s name feels a lot more fresh or as if we put more thought into it, and it doesn’t really seem fair.

I grew up with a very common first name in the 80s and absolutely dreaded the first day of school every year when I would have to go by “first name, last name initial” to account for all the other name sharers. Other people don’t seem to be bothered by their own common names at all. I wish I could predict my son’s preferences!

That said, we are considering some alternatives. Albert is a family name, and I like the nicknames Albie and Bertie, at least until he tells me to knock it off. My husband likes Phillip, and his English grandfather’s name – Ralph (pronounced “Rafe”), which would not be pronounced that way in America. I like it pronounced Rafe, but not otherwise. I like Arthur but he does not.

Do you have any advice or alternatives for me? We are going in name circles. Don’t like surnames as first names. Middle name will sound like Cadlier and last name sounds like Pairton.

Thank you so much in advance!

Former Henry-Lover

I see what you mean, and so I am torn. On one hand, I want to urge you to use the name you love/chose, even though it has become more popular; I love the idea of you choosing your kids’ names long ago and then those children actually coming to be. On the other hand, the gap between the popularity of the name Edith (#526) and the popularity of the name Henry (#29) is wide, and it sounds as if some of the shine has come off the name Henry for you; and if you were saying “But now we HAVE to use it because we chose it long ago!,” I would be arguing vigorously that you were under no such obligation. So. Where does that leave us?

Reading your letter a few times, my feeling is that you would prefer to use a different name at this point. Before we move on to that, I will make sure to say that I do think sticking with the name Henry is also a good, valid option. In the U.S. the name is only at #29 as of 2015, given to less than half of one percent of new baby boys: on average, that’s approximately one Henry per 13 classrooms (assuming a class size of 30, about 50/50 boys/girls). Because even the most popular names are given to a smaller percentage of babies now than they were in the 1980s, the name Henry currently has popularity equivalent to a name barely in the Top 50 in the 1980s, such as Dustin or Kenneth. You may have had a Dustin and/or a Kenneth in one of your classrooms when you were a child, but statistically speaking he would be very unlikely to have needed to use his surname initial. Still, if you are currently living in and traveling to areas with more Henrys than typical, it is possible your Henry would sometimes have another Henry in his class, and would need to go by Henry P. or Hank or Henry Cadlier or some other option. Could you ask your friends and colleagues with Henrys if there are repeats in their classrooms?

If you decide to choose a different name, I think Albert and Phillip are both fabulous choices with Edith. I have a soft spot for the name Albert, so that would be my vote.

I think Ralph-pronounced-Rafe would be a huge headache in the United States, and not one I’d want to deal with as either the parent or the child. I suggest considering it as the middle name, if Cadlier is not set in stone. Albert Ralph Pairton. Phillip Ralph Pairton.

Henry would also make an excellent middle-name option, if you are reluctant to let it go. Albert Henry Pairton. Phillip Henry Pairton.

I’m having a little trouble with the Social Security site this morning, but it appears the name Edith was last popular in the 1890s and early 1900s. I looked at boy names from that period and found these possibilities to consider:

Alfred Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Alfred
Edward Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Edward (not sure about both names beginning in Ed-)
Franklin Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Franklin (not sure about the sound of Franklin Pairton)
Frederick Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Frederick
Leonard Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Leonard
Louis Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Louis
Oscar Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Oscar
Robert Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Robert
Russell Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Russell

These are reminding me of a post we did the other day: Baby Girl or Boy Lutter-with-a-C, Sibling to Theodore and Edwin. Looking at that post, I’d also like to add Harvey: Harvey Cadlier Pairton; Edith and Harvey.

Name update:

We ended up with an Albert (Bertie)! Sometimes I still wonder about Henry and I think if we ever accidentally had another boy we’d probably still use it.

Hello! We are at a baby naming stand still! We are pregnant with our third and do not know the sex. We do know if it’s a girl, her name will be Maura Lotenia nn Lottie (first name is my MIL and second is my middle and is Cherokee for flower- so my family says). This has been our girl name every pregnancy. If we had more than one girl the other names would have been Roslyn Adele and Fiona Ruth- all honor names. My name is Azure and my husband’s name is Patrick J@hn.
We have two boys named Theodore and Edwin middle name Michael. Third boy will also have middle name Michael- honoring a friend who passed. Both go by their full first name the majority of the time.
My husband and I love the name Simon, but after naming Theodore we didn’t think we could do it.
Other names we have considered:
Franklin (my favorite, husband doesn’t like)
Thomas (family name on both sides and leader until- my Dad passed away this Sept. It was his middle name, but it would be awkward for it to be viewed as specifically honoring him as our relationship was complicated)
Phillip
Stanley
Lawrence
Louis

I have been reading your blog for 4 years since trying to name my first! I’m hoping that you or a reader can suggest something old fashioned, but fresh, that will catch my husband’s interest!
Thanks! Oh and due date is Feb 19!

I particularly love Louis from your list; that’s on my own “sad I won’t get a chance to use it” list.

Another such name on my list is Harvey. Theodore, Edwin, and Harvey.

I’d also suggest Frederick, especially since you mostly use full names. Theodore, Edwin, and Fredrick.

The -bert names are starting to meet that “old-fashioned and fresh” mark for me: one of my kids had a Robert in class last year, and I’m a fan of the name Albert. Theodore, Edwin, and Robert. Theodore, Edwin, and Albert.

I also find the name Alfred very appealing. Theodore, Edwin, and Alfred.

I think Warren fits the bill perfectly, except I’m not sure how it sounds with Edwin; I think there may be too many sounds in common.

I’m fond of Gordon; not only do I like the name, but it taps into pleasant Sesame Street memories. Theodore, Edwin, and Gordon.

I had never much considered the name Roger until I saw somewhere that Hodge used to be a nickname for it. HODGE. That is so cute. Theodore, Edwin, and Roger.

I might be ready to hear Douglas again, especially in full form like that. Theodore, Edwin, and Douglas.

Howard once seemed impossibly old-mannish to me, but now it’s starting to budge back into view. Theodore, Edwin, and Howard.

Name update:

Baby name update!
Our Third baby BOY was born at the end of February… We decided on Franklin Michael for the name!
We were between that and Donal (which was not on my original list).
If we ever have another, I’ll be writing for an opinion on Donal as a name! Thanks for all your help and suggestions!
Azure

Dear Swistle,
We named our first son Elijah. Our second son will be born on January 10th. Since we found out the gender, I have been very anxious about his name. My husband and I can agree on girls names but not boys! Gabe likes “Samuel” as the formal name, but would want to call the baby Sam. I like it, but don’t love it. When we had Elijah, my top pick was “Micah.” But when the baby was born we both looked at him and decided he looked more like an Elijah. My top pick this time (that my husband Gabe agrees to) is “Maxmillian” and we would use the nickname Max. I like it–but don’t love it like I love Elijah’s name, but I like it more than Samuel. I have many names I do love, but due to close family relationships–we can’t use as a first name (Dominic, Cameron, Sebastian). Names I love my husband won’t agree to are; Rafael, Jonah, Andre, Mattias, Mateo. My husband’s last name is Martinez which we are using for our children, so he doesn’t want the first name to be too ethnic.

I still love the name Micah, but it is my little bother’s name who has been estranged from most of the family for several years (he has a controlling wife who has cut off ties with most of his friends and family). I don’t want to honor him in any way by using the name, and since I have only seen him once in 11 years, it wouldn’t be a name conflict (Big Micah, Little Micah). My parents are so upset by the situation (my mom has nightmares about Micah’s wife), I think my mom is opposed to me using the name but is too polite to say. So it has kind of soured me on using the name Micah.

My husband’s brother named all his 4 kids with the letter “I” which I dislike very much. For that reason I would prefer this second baby have his own initial—not an “E.”

We both come from big Catholic families. My family is very tall so my parents named us unusual names so we would never be called “Big Bob” if there were kids in our classes with the same names.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. This boy is coming in 76 days! We are already booked with the hospital.

Anxious Mom Kendra

The name Elijah has had an interesting twist to its style path, as have the similar names Noah, Ezra, and Isaiah: they’ve gone mainstream. When I was a child, if I’d thought about what names would be good sibling names for an Elijah, I would have said it HAD to be another intensely biblical name; now, I would say it has to be something similarly hip and modern. It’s a good illustration of how subjective and shifting naming style is.

I don’t see any possible way to name your son Micah. Your brother’s name is Micah and you want to be absolutely sure not to honor him in any way; certainly naming your son the same name would be perceived as an honor. Your parents are deeply upset over your brother Micah’s estrangement from the family, to the point of your mother having nightmares; a grandson named Micah would be a constant reminder of the other Micah. Absolutely you should not use this name. Can we use a black permanent marker to cross it off the list right this second? I feel like crossing it off on my computer screen. Holy pete, definitely not Micah.

Are you set on Maxmillian for the longer form of Max? I think I would go with the more traditional Maximilian instead, unless you have a reason for using the other form (e.g., if it’s an honor name). Samuel/Sam and Maximilian/Max both seem like nice options. Eli and Sam, Eli and Max. It’s understandable if you don’t love the name Max as much as you love the name Elijah, since the name Elijah is already attached to your dear baby. But if it doesn’t seem quite right, let’s see if we can come up with more options to consider:

Aidric
August/Gus
Benjamin/Ben
Isaac/Ike/Zac
Felix
Jasper
Joseph/Joe
Malachi
Nathaniel/Nate
Ruben
Simon
Xavier

Name update:

Dear Swistle, Our second baby boy  was born on January 10th at 10:10 a.m. We struggled coming up with a name we both liked, my husband wanted Samuel/Sam, and I liked Maximilian/Max (the only name he approved on my list). We avoided using my brother’s name (Micah) because it caused pain to my family due to a long estrangement (Micah’s wife has isolated him from most family and friends, and he has allowed it).
We named our second son Maximilian Dominic Martinez. We almost left the hospital with no name since we couldn’t agree.  At the eleventh hour, my husband finally caved on Maximilian and he picked the middle name of Dominic (which happens to be my favorite name and the name of our littlest nephew!).  “Max” is the little brother of Elijah Blue (2 years, 4 months old).  Eli and Max.  We are adjusting to less and less sleep as Elijah wakes up often with Max at night, and isn’t very happy having to share his parents so far. We hope the next child, if we are so lucky to have another child, is a girl —only because we agree on girl names! Thanks for all your help and your readers help!
Kendra

Hi Swistle,

I’m 29 weeks pregnant and still struggling to choose the perfect name for our baby girl. After considering several, we thought we settled on Naomi as the perfect first name.   Our second place name was Kelly, which was still a little to British and gender neutral for our taste.  We’ve also considered Valentina, Cecilia and Jill.  Recently, I have decided that while I still love the name, Naomi does not sound nice with our last name Ramires. (Ramirez with an “s”)  The whole process seems to have started over again.  I have read several name books and looked at all of the websites and apps.  Nothing feels quite right.

My husband likes only names that sound traditionally/classically American or Italian. We both would like the name to be easily spelled and pronounceable.  Finally, it has to sound right with the last name Ramires.

We have three other stipulations:

– Can’t be in the top 50 most popular names of the year
– Can’t end in the sound “rah”
– Can’t be gender neutral

Should I just stick with Naomi and hope she gets a better last name someday?  Or, do I keep searching for the perfect name?  Is this just a normal part of the naming process?

Thank you for any help and advice you can provide.

Best,

Michaela

My vote is that there’s nothing wrong with the sound of Naomi Ramires. I’ve been saying it over and over, and it continues to sound nice to me. If Naomi felt perfect and nothing else seems right, I think there are two main possibilities:

1. This is cold feet. It’s normal to doubt the name once it’s chosen. There were options, they were considered…and now it’s over? Maybe it’s not right. Maybe we should think more. What if there’s a better name out there, and we just haven’t thought of it yet? Maybe we should start over.

2. This is not necessarily about Naomi sounding wrong with Ramires, but is instead about having actual doubts (as opposed to cold-feet doubts) about the name Naomi, possibly for reasons that need more poking around to discover.

From this distance, it’s hard to guess which one it is. It sounds more like cold feet to me, but I don’t want to dismiss it as cold feet if it’s genuine concern. If you really don’t want to use the name Naomi anymore, then it’s good to have this time to re-think. I might suggest taking a week off from thinking/talking about baby names at all, and then begin again.

But if you really DO want to use Naomi, and you HAVE gone back to the drawing board and you don’t want any other name, and your only concern is about how Naomi sounds with the surname, then I recommend this exercise: Get out a yearbook or an employee directory or a class list or a phone book, or fast-forward to the credits of a movie. Look at all those names. A lot of them are not ideal, if you consider them closely. And yet it doesn’t end up mattering: they just seem like normal names.

I don’t even see Naomi Ramires as non-ideal to begin with. But if it doesn’t sound quite right to you, it may still fall into this nice wide “non-ideal but absolutely doesn’t matter and just seems like a normal name” category.

I also recommend removing the word “perfect” from your baby-name search. I don’t think it’s a useful word, and I think it can unnecessarily increase stress. A baby’s name doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to be a good serviceable choice. If you happen to find one that feels perfect, then that’s a lucky bonus—but it doesn’t have to be perfect in every way to be an excellent and satisfying choice.

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

We decided on Naomi Raquel Ramires.  I was definitely having cold feet. Still struggling with the middle name, I decided to just let my husband choose. Naomi’s middle name is his sister’s first name. It is perfect. I couldn’t imagine her being named anything else.

Thank you!

Best,

Michaela

Hello Swistle,

I can’t believe I am writing to a baby naming blog, but I feel that I am just going in circles and need an outside opinion! I am pregnant with our second child, expected to arrive in about six weeks. We do not know the gender. Our last name is *eadows, starts with an M. We have a son, John Walker who we call J.W. If this baby is a boy, I *THINK* we are settled on William Randall (after both of our fathers), and we would call him Will. I’m not crazy about how common this name is, but I think with a classic like William, you can’t go too wrong. I also have always adored the name Henry, which happens to be my husband’s grandfather’s name, but it seems that lately this name has surged to such popularity, at least where we live, that I don’t think I can bear to use it. Another boy name option was Edward James, but I think we’ve ruled it out as we don’t love the nicknames associated with Edward, and the name Edward is a bit of a mouthful with our last name.

Now onto the girls names, which are causing us the most heartburn. I tend to love very classic, traditional names, but nothing that is too popular or trendy, and my husband likes nickname-type names – Lizzy, Maggie, Callie, etc. I would want to use a more formal name that could be shortened. That being said, I started the name search for this baby with the criteria that I did NOT want to use another name that was shortened to a nickname, because we already have a John Walker (who is called John, John Walker and J.W. by different members of our family, which can get confusing and we never know how to introduce him). My favorite girl name has always been Catherine, but I worry that I won’t be able to control her being nicknamed Cat or Cathy, neither of which I care for. My husband says he does not like Catherine enough to call her that. I also love the name Margot, but I do not think that it flows well with our last name (don’t love the double “o” sound). Right now, my short list looks like this (I have no idea why so many “C” names are on the list – that is definitely not a criteria). Several of them are trying to get the nickname Callie (which I know is traditionally a nickname for Caroline, but I just don’t love Caroline!) because my husband really loves Callie but I just don’t want to use a nickname as the given first name. So trying to compromise! While Louise and Catherine are both names pulled from our family tree, we don’t have any burning need to use any particular “honor” name for a girl.

Catherine Louise, nn Callie (is this nickname reasonable or a stretch? Would it be tough and/or confusing to make it stick?) – if it were completely up to me, I would choose this name and just call her Catherine, but my husband won’t be convinced. He would choose Callie Louise as the given name.
Clara Catherine, nn Callie (is this nickname reasonable, or a stretch?) Or just call her Clara?
Camille Catherine, nn Callie (Callie seems a more logical nickname for Camille than Catherine, but I prefer the name Catherine to Camille) My husband also likes the name Camille and would be willing to call her that – I like it but just don’t love it. I also do not like the nickname Cami.
Julia Magdalene nn Maggie (named exactly after my great grandmother, my mom’s beloved grandmother) I think the full name sounds nice with our last name, but I don’t love Julia as a stand-alone first name, and it’s another “her name is this, but we call her this”, which I would like to avoid if at all possible!
Margot Catherine or Margot Louise (this would be a very serious contender if I liked how it sounded with our last name – but I like Margot enough that I haven’t been able to rule it out completely)

Any help or opinions you could provide here would be appreciated!

Edited to add:

Thank you so much for posting my question today, the feedback has already been so helpful. I thought I would send in a quick follow-up, after reading some of the replies and questions. My son’s middle name ‘Walker’ is my father-in-law’s middle name and my husband’s first name. So, since the time I sent in my last email, I have somewhat abandoned the name William for a boy (since we’ve already honored grandfather William Walker with our first child!), and now I am loving Thomas Henry – that way I can still use the name Henry but in the middle name slot. My husband is also still pulling hard for Edward James, and calling him Eddy. So I guess we’re not as decided on boy names as I thought. On the girl names, a couple of readers have suggested Mary – that would definitely be a top contender, except for the fact that it’s my name! :) I am loving all the suggestions, thank you again! I promise to send an update when this little one arrives.

Considering you like classic/traditional names and your husband wants a diminutive, I do think the appropriate compromise is to give her a classic/traditional name with an available cute nickname. I know you’d prefer to avoid a nickname, but it seems to me that it’s a choice between (1) a nickname as a given name or (2) a nickname as an additional option—and if it were me, I’d prefer the option. The possible confusion of name/nicknames seems like such an ordinary level of confusion: so very many people either go by nicknames or have nicknames they don’t choose to use. I would also like to see her given a family honor name, if that is what you’re doing for sons (are either/both of John Walker’s names family names?).

I have trouble making the leap from Catherine to Callie, or from Clara to Callie—which is not to say you can’t give it a shot, but I do think it could be difficult to make it stick. And I think your concerns about the nicknames for Catherine have merit: I don’t think she’d be likely to be called Cathy unless that nickname drifts back into style sooner than expected, but I think it’s quite possible she’d choose to go by Cate or Cat later on.

If you want Callie, I suggest naming her Calista/Callista. One of Elizabeth’s classmates last year was a Callista called Callie, and I was surprised by how much I liked it. I’d use Louise as the middle name. Calista Louise -eadows; John Walker and Calista Louise; J.W. and Callie. Darling.

Another option is Calla. Calla Louise -eadows; John Walker and Calla Louise; J.W. and Callie. But Calla -eadows runs together a bit for me and sounds as if her name could be Callum. Overall, I prefer Calista.

Callie could also be short for Callan (like Alan with a C) or Calliope, but those seem outside your naming style.

It’s possible that the name Callie will need to be abandoned, if at this point it’s creating stress and making you feel trapped.

I think Clara is great: a nice classic name, but short and sweet enough to fit in with names such as Callie and Maggie. And I love Catherine in the middle name position, where you get most of the advantages but without the potential nickname issues. Could your husband call her Clarrie/Clary instead of Callie? It looks awkward written out, but I knew a little Claire called Clairy and it was quite cute in usage. Or would he like a nickname such as C.C./Cece? I am very drawn to the idea of J.W. and C.C.

Would you consider Louise as the first name? I just love it. Louise -eadows. I would want that name for myself. Maybe Louise Catherine -eadows.

Or Willa, if this is your last child and you’d like to honor Grandpa William either way. Willa Catherine -eadows, or Willa Louise -eadows.

I wonder if you’d want to name her Margaret and use Margo as the nickname? It feels like a much smaller issue to me if the nickname doesn’t go perfectly with the surname. You’d also have cute options such as Daisy, Greta, and Maggie. I realize I have gone from “ignoring your preference for avoiding a nickname” to “deliberately adding EXTRA nicknames for EXTRA confusion,” and I am trying to quit it but on the other hand I just love this. Margaret -eadows?? TOO WONDERFUL. I’d use Louise as the middle, and die happy. Margaret Louise -eadows; John Walker and Margaret Louise; John and Margaret; J.W. and Margo/Maggie/Daisy/Greta. I can’t write anymore, I am too overwhelmed by how much I love this.

Name update:

Hello! I just realized that I never sent in an update to my naming conundrum from a couple of months back. Wouldn’t you know it – after all those sleepless nights mulling over what to name what I was SURE was our baby girl, our second son was born on December 6. We named him Edward James, Eddy for short. I absolutely love his name – classic but unexpected and uncommon. Thanks again for all of your wonderful advice!