Swistle,
We really need your help in thinking of a name for our son, who is due in a few weeks.
Our first son’s name is James Nolan, so ideally it would be a name that went with James (but what doesn’t?).
We are stuck between Ford, Shepard, and Elliot. Eliot is a family name – I always thought I would save it for a girl, but what if my third and fourth babies are boys as well?! Better to use it now? It’s my mother-in-law’s maiden name, who passed away, but we named James after her – so I don’t feel like I HAVE to do a double honor. I’d rather give my family a shout out since we did not for our first baby. The middle name we want to use would be to honor my beloved stepfather, whose name ironically is Richard Burton. So we could do Ford Richard, Shepard Burton, Elliot Burton…some cool options there with a name like that!!!
My problem is that this baby doesn’t really feel like any of those names. How do you name a baby if you can’t get a sense of their personality? Do we wait? I hate game time decisions.
Are there any names along those lines we should consider?
I’m fine with you putting our last name because as you can see – it’s a doozy. It rhymes with HELLO.
Any help you could give that could help us name this baby before we enter divorce court (my husband suggested the name Doug last night. DOUG. Which is lovely but not the name of my child)….would be so appreciated!

Let’s look at each of the three options with the older brother’s name:

James and Ford
James and Shepard
James and Elliot

To me, Elliot is the most natural fit of the three: Ford and Shepard both look to me like jumps away from James in style and popularity (though definitely not style clashes). But if you think you’d be considering names more like Ford and Shepard for all the rest of the children, then I don’t want to make any effort to bring you away from that. Elliot would make a nice bridge name: a James, then an Elliot, then on to Ford and then Shepard.

I found when I was proof-reading that I had a change of mind on Ford: it fits well with James, I think, but changes the spin. James and Elliot are two classic gentlemen names. James and Ford are two one-syllable surname names. But I am not sure about Ford with the surname: not only do the -d/D- sounds bump/blend into each other, but it made me think of the possibly-too-obscure-to-matter word “bordello.” I notice Shepard, too, has the -d/D- issue. Even Elliot has a similar issue: the -t/D- does something similar when I say the name aloud. I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker, but it’s something I like to think about ahead of time.

I think I might like to see what other end-letters do with the surname. The -s (-z) of James is nice with it. Charles would be similarly nice. But I am not as drawn to a soft -s such as Thomas or Louis: the soft -s starts sliding into that D- to make a -st- sound.

Henry would be nice. Henry Burton Dall-low.

Or Philip. Philip Richard Dall-low.

Wait, is the name more like DELL-lo or more like dell-LO? It occurs to me that I’ve been saying DELL-lo, but that dell-LO is more likely. If the emphasis is on the first syllable, I find some names have a whimsical bouncing rhythm: Simon DELL-lo, for example, is the rhythm and sound of limoncello or lemon Jell-o. But if it’s more like Simon dell-LO, it loses nearly all the whimsy. Caleb DELL-lo is a little bit funny for a reason I have yet to put a finger on, but Caleb dell-LO is nice. And Ford dell-LO is not nearly as close to bordello as is Ford DELL-lo. And even a lot of the -d/D- and -t/D- and soft -s issues are considerably lessened if the rhythm is dell-LO: I go from thinking Louis DELL-o is not great to thinking Louis dell-LO is pretty terrific. Which makes me think it is probably dell-LO. And also the more I look at the three options, the more I think all three go well with James.

Well. I should probably delete everything and re-write, but instead I will soldier on and put down some more names I think sound nice with at least one version of DELL-lo/dell-LO.

Alexander
Anderson
Benjamin
Calvin
Clark
Frederick
George
Grant (-t/D-)
Ian
John
Louis
Oliver
Paul

To help decide whether to use Elliot for a boy or for a girl, I’d look at your other girl-name options: if you were to have two girls after two boys, what sorts of girl names would be on your list? Elliot is a unisex name with usage currently leaning more heavily towards boys in the U.S.; here are the 2017 numbers from the Social Security Administration:

Eliette: 50F
Eliot: 32F, 173M
Eliott: 72M
Elliette: 104F
Elliot: 493F, 2416M
Elliott: 575F, 2421M
Elliotte: 56F

Are your other girl-name options similar to Elliot? That is, do they lean toward Harper and Avery, Quinn and Riley? Or are your other options more like Margaret and Katherine, or Amelia and Charlotte, or Penelope and Cecily? If I think of siblings named James, Ford, Elliot, and Cecily, I assume James, Ford, and Elliot are boys; if I think instead of siblings named James, Ford, Elliot, and Quinn, I know I need more information before I can make a guess.

Name update:

Swistle, thank you so much for your help! Your readers’ input really helped us name our sweet boy, who came on December 12th! This is Ford Richard :)
He has such a stoic, sweet personality – Ford was the perfect name for him.

Dear Swistle

We have a toddler named Edward Felix Sounds-like-silver, who goes by Teddy. I love his name so much that I still sometimes get a thrill of satisfaction thinking about it.

Our next child is due this spring and if it’s a girl our top choice is Beatrice. However I’m slightly concerned that ‘Beatrice Silver’ is too sibilant. Or that it might become Beatrissilver in speech (not sure if that’s a problem though?). Please help, I think I might be overthinking this but I can’t tell.

We also would welcome any boy name suggestions. Names I like that my partner inexplicably does not:
Rupert
Oscar
Arthur
Hugh nn Hugo

Names my partner inexplicably likes that I don’t:
Paul
Mark (partner is not a Christian, I’m not sure where this New Testament theme sprang from)
Allen (‘with two Ls’, ok buddy)
Callum
Andre
David
Martin
Nathan
Ray
William (I like William by itself but not with Sounds-like-silver)

Any input much appreciated!
Kate x

I just said “Beatrice Silver” a dozen times out loud, and I can’t decide. Here is where I think this kind of issue falls: into the area known as It Doesn’t Really Matter At All, Unless Of Course It Matters To You. Beatrice Silver is a little sibilant, and the -ce runs into the S- a little bit. But it doesn’t make an undesirable word/phrase (such as in the famous example of Ben Dover) or cause a misunderstanding (the way, say, Liam Mason could sound like Leah Mason or vice versa). And I think what usually happens in these cases is that everyone gets accustomed to putting a pause-and-a-half between the first name and surname, instead of the usual pause: “This is Beatrice. Silver. She has a 9:00 appointment.”

My usual prescription for this sort of thing is to suggest the parents browse through a yearbook, or watch all the credits of a movie, and notice how many names fall into this same IDRMAAUOCIMTY category: it’s so many of the names! I was looking through my son’s yearbook the other day to see what a typical senior picture looks like, and I noticed name after name that has similar slight issues—and it really doesn’t matter at all. UNLESS, of course, it eternally bugs the parents, in which case it matters and they shouldn’t have done it. But my guess, my GUESS, is that that is rarely if ever the case.

We had a couple of things like this with our own kids’ names. One kid’s name blends a little with the last name to make a mildly undesirable word such as weep or sulk; I never notice it now, and no one else has ever mentioned it, and I only thought of it now when I was trying hard to think of examples. It only mattered to me during the naming process, and then never mattered again.

I just re-read and realized the surname SOUNDS LIKE Silver, so I used Blogger Privilege and went back to the email to check out the real surname, and I’d say the issue is even less with the real surname than with the stand-in: the sounds of the real surname offset the sibilance even more than the softer sounds of the stand-in.

Can you tell I want you to use the name Beatrice? I want you to use the name Beatrice. But I’m leaving room in case the -ce/S- thing really bugs you, and continues to bug you.

Okay *brisk clap*: boy names. With Edward/Teddy, nothing stands out to me from either of the two lists. It’s not at all necessary, but the FUN solution would be to find a full-name that goes with Edward, plus a nickname that goes with Teddy. Or else a name that goes well with Edward AND with Teddy. Actually, the name Paul would be pretty good for that: Edward and Paul; Teddy and Paul.

Before I start making a list, I would like to note something that seems to be happening in my area: the return of Older Nicknames. Do you remember in the 1990s when suddenly Sam and Max and Charlie and Joe started sounding fresh an in old-man kind of way? It’s almost hard to believe those names used to sound impossibly old-mannish/old-fashioned/stodgy, but they DID, and I REMEMBER when they did. And then they started to sound amusingly quirky, the kind of name you might give a dog, or might CONSIDER for a child but in a humorous, counter-culture kind of way (“What if we just name him MAX? or JOE?” “Honey, come on, you have to HELP with this”). And shortly after that, everyone was looking for long forms of those names so they could use them for their kids. And now they’re just ordinary names.

We have also recently been through a stage of No Nickname Required or Desired, where parents say things like “We want to name him William—but will people call him Billy?” and “We want to name her Elizabeth—but will people call her Beth?” and we have had to say again and again that not only can a kid get away without a nickname in this particular time period (in a way they COULDN’T, really, when some of us were growing up), but even if they DID get a nickname it certainly would be Will or Ellie rather than Billy or Beth.

ANYWAY, my point is that I have been hearing the next wave of Nickname Revival: names such as Johnny, Billy, Marty, Mickey, Pete, Tommy. The nicknames parents were avoiding are starting to come back into style. Most tellingly, some of my kids’ classmates are nicknaming or re-nicknaming themselves: a Charlie now wants to be known as Chuck; a Thomas wants to be known as Tommy; a Jack now goes by Johnny. Before long we may be receiving letters from parents saying “We want to name him William—but we don’t want him called Will or Liam” and “If we’re going to call him Billy anyway, should we just name him that?”

Now that you will understand why I am putting James/Jimmy on the list rather than James/Jamie:

Albert/Bertie
August/Gus
Charles/Charlie/Chip
Desmond/Desi
George
Harvey
Henry
James/Jimmy
John/Johnny/Jack (too Kennedy with Teddy?)
Oliver/Ollie
Phillip/Pip (possibly too whimsical with surname)
Robert/Robbie (I’m not quite ready for Bobby, but I believe it’s on its way)
Wesley/Wes

Name update:

Hello Swistle! Baby Boy Sounds-like-silver was born this Saturday. We’ve named him Albert Ernest (“Albert” isn’t quite as bold a choice here in the UK as it would be in the US) and are calling him Al. Thank you to you and the commenters for your help!

Hello,

I’m due with our second child in March. We do not know the gender yet. My husband and I have a girl’s name picked out but we are struggling to pick a boy’s name. Our first child is a boy so I think that’s why it’s been harder to decide on a baby boy name for our second.

Our son’s name is Judah Thomas. Judah holds significant meaning for us as it means “praise.” And Thomas is my husband’s middle name as well as a family name on my side.

We want our children to have names with significant meaning to us. We plan to have at least three children. And I want our children’s names to sound good when said together.

I also don’t like nicknames. I don’t want to name them something and then hope they will go by a shorter name.

The girl name we have decided on is Mae Elise. My birthday month is May and the Hebrew meaning of May is “gift from God or wished-for child.” My husband chose the middle name Elise and I like the flow of the name Mae Elise Beadle.

For boy names, I like strong but shorter, two-syllable names. I also prefer names with a “soft” sound like Judah as opposed to a name like Zeke. The middle name will be James (after my grandfather). Here is the list we are considering:

Milo- This is my husband’s favorite and while I like it, I’m afraid it’s becoming too popular. I’m also not sure of the combo of Judah and Milo.

Ezra- A Biblical name that means “helper.” I’m concerned the pair of Ezr(a) and Jud(ah) sounds alike but the endings are spelled differently which bothers me. Also, will our third child need the -a or -ah ending?

Asher- Another Biblical name meaning “blessed, happy.” No concerns about the name I’m just not sure if I’m sold on it.

Boden- Both my husband & father-in-law have the double B (first & last). My husband’s name is Benjamin Beadle. We like the idea of having a double B name to keep the tradition.

Lennon- My father’s name is Leonard (called Lenny) so we like the idea of honoring my dad with the first name. My concern is people may associated Lennon Beadle with John Lennon from the Beatles (which sounds like our last name). We were a bit worried about this with our first son also with Judah being close to Jude (“Hey Jude” by the Beatles) but no one has made that connection.

Thank you for your help! I look forward to your thoughts.

Sincerely,
Sadie Beadle

Generally I don’t turn my hand to questions that emphasize the meanings of names: it’s not a subject I know much about. But I realized this morning that then commenters who DO know a lot about name meanings hardly ever get to talk about them.

I did want to say that Mae Beadle sounds in my head like May Beetle—similar to June Bug. It’s a whimsical connection and perhaps not one that would be common for people to make, but it’s a potential hazard with noun names.

Name update:

Hello,

Just a follow up!

Asher James was born March 22, 2019 at 4:01 am. Thank you for submitting my original post. The feedback was helpful & we think Asher is the perfect name for our second son.

Hello,
Thanks in advance for your help. My husband and I are expecting a baby girl at the end of October and we are totally stuck for a name and it is really stressing me out.

We have a 3 year old son Jack, a name we absolutely love. Our last name is Murrie. Our girl choice for him was Fiona, this is still my absolute number 1 pick for a girl but my husband feels that it is “used” now and we need something new for our next child.

I am from the UK and have an unusual first name and it is important to me that our daughter not have to spell her name for people her whole life. I like the typical top 10 names but don’t want her to be one of 4 Charlotte’s in a class.

I like Kit as short for Katherine but Katherine is my MIL’s name and I don’t want to name my daughter after her, I think it will alienate my family. Likewise I think Elizabeth is lovely but it is already taken in the family.

I like Fiona so much because it is not at all common but it is not unusual and it doesn’t have multiple possible spellings. I really like Maggie and Molly but with out last name feel too limericky to me.

Do you have any suggestions to help us out?

Kind Regards,

The Murries

Fiona seems great to me. I understand it’s not uncommon for parents feel a name is “used” if they had it in mind for an earlier baby, but I think it’s worth putting in some mental effort to get past this if at all possible (I realize it will not always be possible). The name Jack is now used, but the name Fiona was not used last time because it was not needed. Could your husband find a way to think of the name Fiona as the name the two of you chose for your first daughter, as opposed to thinking of it as the name you would have used if Jack had been a girl? Then the name is not only still available but in fact has been specifically set aside for this upcoming child.

I wonder if it is the alliteration of Maggie and Molly that makes them not quite right with the surname, or if it is the matched endings, or if it is both. Let’s look for some names that match only beginnings OR endings, and also try to find some that match neither; let’s also look for some names that are more like Fiona:

Ada
Anna
Annabel
Annie
Bianca
Cassie
Clarissa
Claudia
Cleo
Daisy
Delia
Eliza
Elodie
Eva
Greta
Gwen
Josephine/Josie
Karenna
Kate
Lainey
Louisa
Lucy
Lydia
Mabel
Marlo
Matilda
Mika
Penelope
Polly
Sabrina
Sally
Sadie
Simone
Sylvia/Silvia
Tessa
Vivian
Winifred

Name update:

Thanks so much for your help, baby arrived last week and we did go with Fiona in the end after narrowing it down to Fiona or Katrina. I’m thrilled of course.

Hello,

I found your website on a mom group and I am just in love. I feel like you think and examine names very much the same way I do. The name game has been my favorite thing to do since I was in high school. Little did I know how difficult it is when the stakes are for real. Hahaha.

So here it is: I’m expecting #2 a baby boy in 7 weeks and I am finding boy names to be so much less inspired than girl names. My daughter is Georgia and while we hadn’t chosen it for sure when we went into the hospital it’s the name I always wanted and after my traumatic birth my husband finally agreed to that name! Yesss! It’s such a strong girl name that I’m having trouble with a boy equivalent.

Our last name is Rivas and as a biracial family I want American-ish sounding first names signifying their duality. It’s unfortunate since i love so many Hispanic boy names (Gabriel, Miguel, Javier, Angel) The next issue is that since my daughter and husband both have J sounding names I don’t want baby boy to have one and then they all match and I don’t. This is also unfortunate because I love most J names. I like names that are actual names and not made up or hipster.

Oliver, Benjamin, Liam were all my faves when I was preg with my daughter. I like old fashioned names. Now that I’m actually having a boy those names are ranking too high in popularity for me to feel good about choosing. Shawn Hunter is a name I loved from the beginning but someone pointed out and now i can’t get it out of my head that Shawn is a much weaker name than Georgia. Shane is an alternative and stronger but too similar to my name and would make our family look sort of egotistical. Hunter James is another one I’m liking as well but not quite sold. I always try to picture names on resumes or as CEO’s. Most of this pregnancy I have felt that he is Hunter in some capacity though.

I also love Connor but my husband feels that with our last name it sounds like an STD esp if you imagine over a microphone at graduation. Connor Rivas. Also names that I love but have been kicked out are William and Wyatt cuz then people will end up saying William Wivas and Wyatt wivas. Too hard to say properly.

Also liking Owen Maverick but my sister wanted to name the son she never had (2 girls) and has made it clear she doesn’t want me to use it.

We recently came across the name Phoenix and both love it. I love the E and O in the name which was also why I loved my daughters name as well. And also maybe why I like Owen. However Phoenix might just be too far away from “normal” for me to feel great about. And I can’t see it being good on a resume.

Husband loves Morgan and wanted it for our daughter as well. I’m not a fan but he thinks Morgan Phoenix is great. He also loves Ryder (he rides motorcycles)

Please help! I’m so afraid this baby will get a random name just to have a name and not anything loved or planned. I’m no closer to naming him than I was 6months ago!

Thanks for your time!

Rivas Family!

Is this the kind of morning when we want to discuss what it means in our society that gentler names are considered good for girls but “weak” for boys, or should we skip that conversation and instead just kick the idea directly to the curb? The name Shawn/Sean is a gentler-sounding name to me than Shane, but I personally don’t see any pressing need in our society to REDUCE gentleness in boys/men, nor have I seen good results from centuries of beefing up the idea that men need to display superficial strength-markers such as looking tough and sounding tough and even heaven help us having tough names.

Georgia and Shawn is a perfectly nice sibling set, and the person who “pointed out” to you that Shawn is a “much weaker” name is probably someone I would avoid discussing baby names with in the future. Or perhaps I would ask earnestly what they meant by “much weaker,” exactly.

Let’s also skip discussing at length whether it would make your whole family look egotistical if your son’s name was somewhat similar to yours. Men name sons directly after themselves, exactly duplicating all three names, ALL THE DANG TIME, and does society react by saying, “My goodness, what an egotistical family!” No, they do not. Shane is not too similar to your name if you love the name, but I don’t think you should use it just to avoid a gentler name.

If you are looking for an alternative to Shawn, I wouldn’t go to Shane anyway, I’d go to John. It has a similar sound to Shawn (and also to Connor), but in a form I don’t think anyone would think of as weak. Not that we want to cater to such attitudes. But it’s a good name anyway. Georgia and John. (This breaks your preference for avoiding J names, but hang on because pretty soon I’m going to try to talk you out of that.)

Or Saul? Georgia and Saul.

Or Simon. Georgia and Simon.

I am unsuccessfully biting my tongue about your sister claiming permanent dibs on a name she couldn’t use. I would like to think that in the same situation I would be SO HAPPY to have a nephew named my favorite boy name, instead of wanting the name enshrined and wasted on my Sad I Can’t Use It list. If your sister might have more children some day, I’m still not keen on anyone calling dibs on a name, but I will retract some of my critical feelings; if she is definitely, definitely done having kids, then I wonder if it’s worth re-approaching the topic with her. Was it just Owen she was planning to use, or Owen Maverick? If the latter, I wonder if it would help to change the middle name? Or what if you went with something like Rowen or Bowen or Nolan? I particularly like Nolan for you. Georgia and Nolan.

Or would you like Odin? I found it while considering the name Hunter and wondering if there was a god of hunting as well as a goddess.

Do you think there’s a chance you could come around on the G/J-sound-avoiding preference, perhaps if I wheedled a little? If your husband and daughter and son all had names starting with the same letter, I too would feel it was a little sad for you to be left out, and in your place I wouldn’t want that either. But if the initials don’t all match, that seems different to me, and I would mind it much, much less. It’s not as noticeable to others, for one thing: if I knew a family of Jason and Sarah and their kids Genevieve and Jared, I don’t know how long it would take me to notice that Sarah had a different starting sound to her name. Plus, in a situation where you’re really struggling to find a name you love, it seems like a poor idea to rule out a bunch of names you love. I suggest bringing the J names back into discussion and see what happens; if you continue to feel sad or left out, boot the J names back out.

I’d like to collect some feedback in the comments section on whether other people have trouble saying William Rivas or Wyatt Rivas. I tested both and didn’t stumble at all: my mouth wasn’t even tempted to say William Wivas or Wyatt Wivas. I just looked at the names and said them, same as if it were William Richards (no issue saying William Wichards) or Wyatt Rodriguez (no issue saying Wyatt Wodriguez).

I think Phoenix would be an excellent/fun middle name but a challenging first name, and River Phoenix would absolutely rule out Phoenix Rivas for me. I also think Georgia and Phoenix make a startling pairing. Many families have different styles in boy names than in girl names, but that is a huge style gap. I wonder if you would like the name Felix? Very similar in sound to Phoenix, but less challenging to use. Georgia and Felix.

Just for fun I made a list of some eo/oe names:

Gideon
Joel
Leo
Leon
Mateo
Theodore

That search wouldn’t give results such as Owen where the O and E are separated, but there are tons of names like that, and they were pretty easy to find just by skimming my eyes down the Top 1000 list at the Social Security Administration site:

Oliver
Joseph
Christopher
Cameron
Robert
Easton
Greyson

And so on.

The name Morgan is a unisex name currently used more often for girls than boys in the United States: in 2017, the name was given to 1,911 new baby girls and 362 new baby boys. I find I dislike the repeating -or- sound of Georgia and Morgan, but that’s a highly subjective thing and others may love the way it ties the two names together. I wonder if you’d like the name Rogan. Georgia and Rogan. Or Corbin? Georgia and Corbin.

Ryder is an interesting one to consider. On one hand, there’s a style gap with Georgia—but Georgia and Ryder is easier to take on board than Georgia and Phoenix: it’s a jump but not a flying leap. Ryder Rivas is alliterative, which could be a plus or a minus; visually, I also notice the five letters of each name and the way the Y and the V look similar. I wonder if you’d like the name Ranger. Georgia and Ranger.

It is certain that there are brands and loyalties I am utterly ignorant of, so it is possible this suggestion is a giant misstep for a motorcycle fan, but Harley and Davidson spring to mind as possible names. Georgia and Harley has a strong Southern sound to me. Georgia and Davidson seems like a very nice pairing, and the motorcycle reference is far more subtle.

Name update:

Hi,

I wanted to send in an update!

I named my son 10minutes before being discharged in the hospital! Oooof! One of the hardest decisions of my life! I cried afterwards. And truly as I had been afraid of his name kind of just got thrown at him. Shawn Jameson. It was almost Shawn Hunter and just as i was signing the name papers i asked my husband are you sure? And he sighed and gave up. Shawn Jameson is a combo of two names we both liked at some point and so that’s what it became. My little SJ is 7mos old and i still don’t love it and consider just going by his middle name but we’ll see.

Thanks for your help and ideas! I love having this post of yours to go back to and remember! Especially as I’m bugging my husband to add a third!

Hi Swistle,

I’m a 2nd time mama-to-be, and a long time reader. I’m due with a baby girl at the end of September, and have a question about honor names as middle names. What is the etiquette around telling the person you want to honor (she’s very much alive) that you plan to use her name as the baby’s middle name?

Some background info: My son Reece is 2. Our last name is very Irish, and also the name of a spice company. My husband and I both have family ties to the UK and Ireland, so we felt good about Reece (easier to spell than the traditional Welsh Rhys). His middle name, Patrick, is an honor name of sorts; my brother, my husband, and my husband’s father all have the same middle name.

This baby girl will also have a first name with strong UK ties. We have a couple of front runners, but no clear winner yet. All the names we like are 1 syllable.

My question essentially is this: When I was 8, my brother and I had an au pair from Denmark named Gitte (roughly pronounced Ghee-da), and while she only lived with us for a year, she became a big sister to me and a huge influence on my life. For the past 15 years, I’ve see her in person every other year, and we are in constant communication. She was the first person in my “family” to meet Reece, flying to be with us 4 days after he was born. I would love to give this baby her name as a middle name. But, do I tell her in advance that we want to do this? Do I ask her permission? Or just surprise her with it?

My husband and I have discussed it, and he knows how important she is in my life. He’s gotten close to her over the last 9 years that we’ve been together, so he’s on board with using her name as our daughter’s middle name. I think my family will be a bit surprised, since it’s an unusual name for Americans, but since it’s a middle name, I don’t think it’s a big deal that it’s foreign (am I wrong?). I ultimately think my family will be supportive of her middle name. My husband isn’t very close with his family, so we’re not concerned with their opinions (although we think they won’t like it).

One other factor is that Gitte herself is pregnant with a baby girl, due around Thanksgiving. I definitely don’t want her to feel any pressure to in turn incorporate my name (American top 3 name of the mid 80s) into her daughter’s name. Would that somehow be implied as an expectation if I give my daughter the middle name Gitte? Am I just vastly overthinking this?

I’d love your input, or any advice your readers have! Thanks so much!

I don’t think there is any particular standard etiquette for it, but I will tell you the method I strongly suggest:

1. Wait until the baby is born.

2. Announce the name.

3. When you announce it to the honoree, add a sentimental sentence about the honor name (e.g., “You’ve been like a big sister to me”) so they don’t have to ask, “Wait, is that after me, or…?”

Asking permission is unnecessary, and telling in advance is risky: every so often we get a letter from a parent who told the honoree about an honor name but now has a reason to change their mind. Even if you’re certain you won’t change your mind, waiting until the birth gives the whole situation more ceremonial clout: you’re announcing it as a done deal instead of as a plan for the future, and the natural drama of the baby’s arrival adds to the emotional impact.

I think you’re right that it’s no big deal to have a name from another country as a middle name; it’s a fairly common practice for parents trying to incorporate an ancestor name or a name from their own countries of origin. Middle names tend to disappear after the birth announcements go out, so it’s a great place for a name that might feel too challenging for daily usage.

I would share in your slight nervousness that she might then feel pressured to reciprocate—but I think it’s likely you and I are both overthinking that part. There are so very many factors in deciding to use an honor name, including the name itself and how it works with other chosen names, the priority of using other names, the preference for using or not using honor names, the input of the other parent, etc., that I think there is very minimal pressure IF ANY to reciprocate an honor name. I am trying to think how I would feel if someone had used my name as a middle name for their child while I was still having my children—and I think that EVEN WITH my natural anxiety and unusually high interest in baby naming, I would not feel pressure; at worst, I think I would feel a flicker of anxiety about it, and then would be easily able to talk myself through all the reasons I shouldn’t feel the anxiety.

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

I wanted to write back and provide an update.

Thank you so much for your insightful response, and to your readers for their input as well!

We decided to wait until the baby was born to share her name, and we’re glad we did.

Brynn Gitte was born on October 2nd, and we felt such joy sharing the news with namesake Gitte. She was surprised, but said she couldn’t be more honored and proud of the baby having her name.

Thanks again!

Hello Swistle!

I would love your help in tackling our babies(!)-naming issue. We’re having identical twin girls in September. My husband and I are really struggling to pick out two perfect names and I’m starting to get stressed out.

We have a 2 year old daughter named Evelyn (and we call her Evie, pronounced eh-vee). Our last name is DeMattia.

Before Evie, we always loved the name Luca, but we decided to keep it in case we had a boy. Here we are having 2 more girls (no more kids after this!), and we’ve decided we want to use Luca for one of the girls. So Luca is pretty much set. Now to find a name that goes with both Evie and Luca.

Here are the names we currently have in the running (top 4 being our favorites, others we like enough and could be happy with them):

Luca & Leigh
Luca & Livi
Luca & Emma
Luca & Emilia
Luca & Laine
Luca & Layne
Luca & Cate
Luca & Sophia
Luca & Reese

Leigh – we struggle with is it too plain? Seems more like a middle name. Is it too feminine in opposition to Luca (traditionally male Italian name)
Livi – we love this, and it’s 4 letters like Luca, but it’s probably too close to Evie. We could be set on this, but I don’t think we can do it since it’s so close.
Emma – is it too common and feminine, compared to Luca, which is not at all common for a girl? Love that it’s 4 letters, and like the looks of it with Luca.
Emilia – love the looks of this with Luca, but it seems like people pronounce it very differently. Is it too complicated of a name when you’re dealing with twins, especially? We like the uniqueness of this name.
Laine/Layne – Husband and I like different spellings.
Cate – like Leigh, is this too plain, especially with Luca? I like that Luca ends in “ca” and Cate begins in “Ca”
Sophia – too common?
Reese – does it work with Luca?

Would love your thoughts!

Many thanks,
Jordyn DeMattia (husband is Adam)

Normally when parents write and say they’ve decided X and want help with Y, I don’t like to go messing around with X because it’s not what we’ve been asked. But sometimes it seems to me as if X is the very thing making Y so difficult.

In this case, it seems to me as if the decision to name one daughter Luca is what’s making the whole naming decision so hard. And the fact that you had decided to save the name Luca for a boy, and are using it now for a girl because you won’t be having any boys, feels like an iffy reason to use it. It is possible that it would be better to add Luca to your Sad You Can’t Use It list (a list most of us have), just as you would have if your favorite boy name had been Benjamin or Jacob. But it’s also possible that I should back off from this issue, because your question is not really “What should we name the twins?” but more “What should we name Luca’s twin?”

I guess I will push on for the moment and suggest that, as an exercise, you pretend that the name Luca dropped out of the running for some reason—like, pretend a friend of yours had a baby girl this morning and named her Luca, and now you didn’t want to use the name. Then think afresh about what you would want to name the twins. Does that in any way clear things up? That is, do you immediately make several combinations you love, and feel happy and relaxed about the decision and no longer in need of help? Then I would conclude that it was the name Luca that was clogging up your process. But if not, if instead you are now doubly stuck because now you need TWO names, then I’d conclude that the name Luca was not necessarily the issue and we should continue on with your original question.

Which is what I will do now. Let’s go through the combinations one by one:

Luca and Leigh. I don’t think Leigh is too feminine with Luca, and in fact I think it’s a nice unisex option: the spelling Leigh has been used more often for girls in the U.S., and the spelling Lee has been used more often for boys, but both spellings are unisex. I enjoy twin names with something in common such as matching initials, so for me that’s an extra point in this combination’s favor. [Edited to add: Commenter Bff mentions that “Luca and Leigh” is quite similar to “Luke and Leia.” I think this rules out the combination for me.]

Luca and Livi. I definitely think Livi is too close to Evie. Also that in this sibling group, Livi feels like a nickname.

Luca and Emma. The popularity gap is startling here: according to the Social Security Administration, the name Emma has been in the Top Ten most popular names for girls for the last sixteen years, and it’s been the very most popular girl name for the last four years. Meanwhile the name Luca has not even been in the Top THOUSAND for girls. The name Luca was #130 for boys in 2017, so in this sibling group we’d have two girls with very common and feminine names currently used almost exclusively for girls, and one girl with a unisex name used much more often for boys. That doesn’t sit well with me.

Luca and Emilia. I am not aware of multiple pronunciations of Emilia; I pronounce it like Amelia but with more of an Eh than an Ah at the beginning. The spelling has a somewhat exotic/international feeling to me, which is very nice with Luca. I do think spelling would be a constant issue (as it is with many names), but not at all at a level where I’d cross the name off the list. One hesitation is that “Emilia DeMattia” feels tongue-tangling to me. I am also still not happy with having two names used almost exclusively for girls and one name used more often for boys.

Luca and Laine/Layne. As with Leigh, I like the unisex aspect of this pairing. Would you consider compromising on Lane? It’s nice the way both names would have four letters. Luca and Lane.

Luca and Cate. I like the matching -ca/Ca- too. But the name Cate/Kate feels so so so common compared to Luca. As a given name, Cate/Kate never got out of hand—but the name Caitlin/Katelyn gave us a saturated market. And there was a time when it seemed as if every single book had a Kate in it: it was such a perfect Everywoman name. Still, it’s a great name, and the Cate spelling looks so nice with Luca.

Luca and Sophia. Similar to my issues with Emma: the name Sophia has been in the Top Ten most popular names for girls for the last twelve years, and it spent three of those years at number one. Again, this gives us a sibling group with two feminine names used almost exclusively for girls and one unisex name used much more often for boys. Spelling it Sofia would give it an international appeal I like with Luca, but I still don’t like the imbalance.

Luca and Reese. I think this works nicely, and I like the unisex nature of Reese.

So let’s see. Your top favorites were Leigh, Livi, Emma, and Emilia. I would certainly cross Livi and Emma off the list, if it were up to me. [Edited to add: as above, I would now also cross off Leigh.] I would nudge Lane and Reese higher up the list.

Here’s another moment when I would suggest checking in with your preferences. Are you finding your happiness levels decreasing as we go along here? Are the names that work well with Luca mostly names you wouldn’t be considering except that you’re looking for something to go with Luca? If the name Luca were out of the running, would all of your favorites be names used almost exclusively for girls? If yes and yes and yes, I’d again suggest the possibility of thinking “Luca would have been our favorite name if we’d had a boy—but we didn’t have a boy” and starting over with names you love for girls. But if unisex names such as Reese and Lane and Leigh were on your list with your first daughter’s name, too, then I’d lean toward those this time around.

I will also add here that I think the search for two “perfect” names is unnecessary, and may be unnecessarily stressing you out. Your only job is to find two serviceable, useful names, ideally names both of you like a lot.

Name update:

Thank you Swistle and readers for your insight and suggestions on names for our twin girls!

After lots of consideration, we had the names narrowed down to:
Luca and Leigh
Luca and Laine

However, we just couldn’t decide which to go with, neither felt 100% right. So, we went back to the drawing board late one night, and magically came up with completely different names we loved, but had never considered before!

Our girls are:
Chloe Leigh
Callie Wren
(And big sister Evelyn Grace (Evie))

So although we still love the name Luca, it will remain on our “Sad You Can’t Use It List.”

Dear Swistle,

Hello! You helped us name our first baby (Beatrix Dare, nn Bix/Bixie, for whom we considered the name Aviatrix until y’all talked us out of it) and we’re back again for help with her sister, due in December. I’m falling prey to all the second baby how-to-live-up-to-the-first’s-name problems, and I know that it’s because Beatrix is now a person and not just a name, but I just keep feeling like I haven’t found IT yet, despite my endless research. Like, is there just a name I haven’t seen/thought of yet that’s perfect, or am I overthinking? As a refresher, our last name sounds like muh-HALF-fee, and the kid will have my wife’s maiden name as a second middle, so sounding like First Middle MAC-irish muh-HALF-fee.

The thing that sold me on Beatrix was the nickname Bix. We’re very nicknamey people, and I love a longer name with an unusual nn, preferably those kicky early 20th century-ish ones, like Kit/Birdie/Goldie, or something else that sounds like she’s a character in the Great Gatsby or maybe a wild west show? I also love a nature name and/or a word name and/or a very unusual name (hence my trying to make Aviatrix happen.) I’m okay with explaining a name – I thought Beatrix was safe, but I have to say “No, Beatrix, with an x” or “No, Bixie, like Dixie with a b” almost every time she introduces herself.

Currently in the running for firsts:
Opal (nn Ollie, b/c wife vetoed Opie)
Eilish (AY-lish, not EYE-lish, nn Ailey, like the dance company!)
Arden (nn???)
Juniper (nn Junie)
Avis (Mostly just to get to nn Birdie, but I don’t hate it as a name. We’ve also considered and nixed Paloma, Columba, Sparrow and Wren to get to Birdie)
Orlaith (OR-la, nn Goldie. Also considered Aurelia to get to Goldie)
Verity (nn?? Wife likes this one.)
Vesper (nn?)
Cedar (Wife doesn’t like nn CeCe)
Zora (nn Zosie)

Currently in the running for middles:
Salem
Nova
Bess (kind of an oblique honor name for several Elizabeth in our lives)
Jubilee
Maeve
Avalon
Swift
Astra/Estrella (her fetus name is Twinkle, so the wife likes star names)

The wife has unfortunately nixed my favorite, Wells; it’s nature/word name, badass female author name, kinda unisex, etc. Ticks all my buttons, but she’s not sold. We also like but can’t use Clementine, Ramona or Audre. The only name we agreed solidly upon so far is Juniper, mainly b/c she doesn’t love coming up with names and basically just wants veto power (which I’m fine with, she’s doing the hard work of growing the kid!). I like Juniper a lot, but I already know/know of 3 little Junipers just in my circle. This was one of the reasons Bix didn’t end up a Hazel, b/c the name just seemed to explode in popularity.

So, can you help us? Any cool/unusual nicknames you can think of or obvious nature/word/lady-adventurer names I’m missing? We’d appreciate anything you can come up with. Thanks and have a great day!

I just recently read Practical Magic, in which one of the aunts is named Bridget, called Jet. I’ve also seen Jet used as a nickname for Juliet(te). I like the way those parallel your first child’s name: a familiar but not overused first name with an unexpected cool nickname.

Other favorites of mine, but with nicknames not as distinctive as Bix: Winifred/Freddie and Frances/Frankie (or Francesca/Frankie). Beatrix and Winifred; Bix and Freddie. Beatrix and Frances; Bix and Frankie. Beatrix and Francesca; Bix and Frankie. (I read a book long ago that used Chess as a nickname for Francesca; I liked that while I was reading the book, but when I was talking about it to someone else, they thought I said “Chest” and that ruined it for me.)

Some of the names on your list seem to me to be good matches for the name Bix or for the name Aviatrix, but not as good with the name Beatrix. Wells, for example: Bix and Wells is terrific, but the style gap between Beatrix and Wells makes it sound like a sister/brother pair. Vesper and Cedar would both be interesting candidates to consider with Aviatrix, but “Beatrix and Cedar” would be another surprising sister pairing. Eilish and Orlaith are a big leap in difficulty/hassle as well as uncommonness/unfamiliarity. (And I had to look up the meaning of the name Orlaith to figure out how the name Goldie connected.) And Zora feels like a cool Zena sidekick, or a space princess (or BOTH!); Bix and Zora is an awesome space-princess warrior team (please someone start writing a script for that), but Beatrix and Zora feels like a there’s been an abrupt change in naming style, or that the parents’ naming style is “cool letters like X and Z and Q” (a perfectly legit style, but not as layered as yours).

The strongest candidates, I think, are Opal, Arden, Avis, and Verity. The first three in particular feel like contemporaries of Beatrix: names that have fallen out of common usage, but could definitely be the names of women in a historical novel.

…Well, I’ll be danged: in looking up the usage of those names, I find Zora in use in the early 1900s. The available data starts in 1900, where the name Zora is at #338 (99 new U.S. baby girls given the name that year); it never makes it higher than that, but doesn’t fall out of the Top 1000 until 1940. That goes to show you how an individual person’s impressions of a name can fail to line up with the actual usage: here I am assuming a modern/futuristic name when I should have been imagining historical novels (which doesn’t rule out the name having a resurgence in the time of space princesses, if you’re working on that script already). The name Zora was MORE common than Arden for early-1900s ladies, as was the name Zena. ZENA! I’m going to put up a 24-hour Twitter poll to collect more of an assortment of impressions before I publish this post; it’s not exactly scientific since I’m setting the answers, but I want to find out how other people see the name. …Okay, it is 24 hours later and I can put the poll here and finish this post!

A number of people responded that their own impression of the name was evenly split between early 1900s and space princess.

I wonder if there is still hope for the name Wells, since it’s your favorite and it goes so nicely with Bix. Perhaps Wilhelmina/Willemina/Willa/Willow/Jewel, nickname Wells? I particularly like Willa. Beatrix and Willa; Bix and Wells. Wills seems like the more natural nickname, but I don’t like the sound of Bix and Wills as much. And thinking of Wills as more natural might be enough to ruin Wells for me: once it feels as if it OUGHT to be Wills, Wells starts to feel forced.

For Arden, I’d be tempted by the nickname Arlo. Or Denny could be cute. I know a girl nicknamed Dinny, and it doesn’t seem at first glance as if it would work but it has worn well with time. It has some of the sound of Denny/Danny and some of the sound of Ginny.

The cute/clever nickname for Verity would be True. Beatrix and Verity; Bix and True.

I am more inclined, though, to look for cool nicknames that go with the letters/sounds of the given name, as with Beatrix/Bix: that is, Marigold/Goldie rather than Orlaith/Goldie, Gertrude/True rather than Verity/True. I am not good at discovering fresh versions of those (e.g., I knew Bea and Trixie as nicknames for Beatrix, but would not on my own have thought of Bix), so I am hoping readers have more suggestions. I will list some of the ones I’ve heard of, mixed with more familiar options; I will include options that won’t work in your particular case (such as Rebecca/Bex), so that we’ll have a more complete list for later reference:

Adelaide/Della/Del/Lady
Arlene/Arlo
Augusta/Gus/Gussie
Bernadette/Bennie/Birdie
Birgitta/Birdie
Bridget/Birdie/Jet
Caroline/Caro
Constance/Consie
Eleanor/Lennie
Eloise/Lola
Florence/Flossie
Frances/Frankie
Francesca/Frankie
Genevieve/Vivi
Georgia/George/Georgie
Gertrude/True/Trudy/Gertie
Guinevere/Vera
Gwendolyn/Dolly
Harriet/Hattie
Henrietta/Hettie
Imogen/Midge/Moe
Isadora/Zadie
Jocelyn/Joss
Josephine/Jo/Posy
Judith/Jude
Juliet/Jet
Katherine/Kick/Kiki/Kit
Lorelei/Rory
Louise/Lulu/Lou/Louie
Marigold/Goldie
Maureen/Moe
Millicent/Millie
Miriam/Mim
Naomi/Mimi
Nicoletta/Cole
Penelope/Pip/Nell
Philippa/Pippa
Rebecca/Bex
Rosamund/Romy
Rosemary/Romy/Rory
Susannah/Nan/Sukie
Theodora/Teddie
Violet/Lettie
Virginia/Ginny
Winifred/Freddie

I’m hoping there can be lots of additions to this list in the comments section. I know I’ve heard more nicknames of the Beatrix/Bix and Juliet/Jet type—names where I would not have thought of them myself, but when someone else thinks of them they seem fresh and appealing and give the name new life.

At some point, my own preference is to go ahead and use the nickname you want to use with whatever given name you like best, instead of trying to backfind a given name that makes the nickname work. For example, if you want Birdie, I don’t think you need to try to find a bird- or bird-related given name; writer Catherine Newman has a daughter named Abigail, called Birdy. If you want Goldie, I don’t think you have to go for names with a little-known connection to gold; you can instead name her Margaret or Geneva or Millicent or Katherine and then say “But we call her Goldie.” If anyone pursues it (and for the most part, people don’t care very deeply about other people’s names), you can say, “She just always seemed like a Goldie!” or “It just sort of happened!” or even “We loved the nickname but not any of the names that led to it, so [*mighty shrug*]” or WHATEVER you can say briefly and cheerfully. I think this works best when the given name is more familiar/traditional: for example, I probably wouldn’t name her Vesper but then call her Goldie, because that seems like Too Much For One Name. But a Margaret called Goldie has the familiar feeling of all those boarding school girls named Elizabeth or Mary Katherine and called Bunty or Kipper. I also think it works best if there is at least one strong sound in common: that is, I think Margaret/Goldie works better than Katherine/Goldie, because of the G in Margaret.

That’s unless you PREFER the Orlaith/Goldie and Avis/Birdie type connections. Those can be fun, too. I only mean I don’t think you HAVE to do that to get the nickname you want.

Name update:

Hi Swistle,
The baby I wrote you about turned one today (whoops, time kinda got away with me there!) but I wanted to send y’all an update. Thanks hugely for everyone’s amazing ideas, it was so fun to read through them again. We agreed most on the name Opal, and went to the hospital leaning toward Opal Maeve, nickname Omie (a compromise since her initials would be OMMM and the wife hates the way Opie sounds). However, during her (long, complicated) labor, my wife used a star outside as a focus through her contractions, and once the baby was here suggested we use Vesper for her middle. Sounded perfect to me (plus, you don’t say no to a woman who just spent more than a day bringing life into the world) so Opal Vesper joined our family on a chilly morning last December. She’s sunniest kid I’ve ever met, and we adore her utterly. We kept the nickname Omie, mostly just b/c we liked it, and technically her initials still spell OM. Here’s a picture of her around 6 mos. Thanks again!
Meigh

PS, our older daughter has a classmate called Catriona, nn Catch, that I think would fall right in with the cool nickname list you’ve got going!

Hi Swistle,

Long time reader, first time writer here.

I’m due with my second in September. We don’t know the sex. We have a daughter, who has the same name as the main character in My Fair Lady.

We chose names really easily and early this time, which is perhaps why I’m having second thoughts! The baby will have my husband’s last name – European name that starts with a Van and my last name as a second middle name. Middle name will be Belle or Mary if a girl and either Willard or Cyriel if a boy.

For a girl we were settled on one of Mazie/Maisie/Maizie/Maisy, but now I can’t decide how to spell it. I’m also concerned that I’m going to endlessly be having to spell out her name regardless of how I choose. I think I’d like to minimize this, but maybe I don’t care!

When I look it up on baby name wizard I can see that Mazie is the only one that’s been in the top 1000, so I think that makes it the traditional spelling. However, I suspect that Maisy or Maisie were commonly used as nicknames for Margaret, which complicates things.

I like that Mazie has 5 letters and includes a ‘z’, like my daughter’s name.

So I guess I’m looking for some alternate opinions on which spelling may be misspelt the least, or perhaps some reassurance that it doesn’t really matter. Or maybe I should just start over!

I also really love the name Frankie for a little girl, but hubby is lukewarm about it. We don’t agree on many girl’s names.

The name we have chosen for a boy is Frederick, but I tend to think of names in my head phonetically and now I’m wondering if I’d be better off spelling it Fredrik, which is how I would like to pronounce it. I like nicknames and will probably call him Freddie, if it’s a boy that is.

I’m hoping you and your readers can help me make a decision!

Thanks,

Alyssa

For me personally (this will of course vary from person to person because of our varied experiences), the spellings I am most familiar with are Maisy (from the cartoon mouse books/show) and Maisie (from I don’t know where, but my feeling is old-timey novels).

I am separately familiar with the grain-word “maize.” I find that the z-spellings of the name bring that word to mind.

Maisy is my own favorite spelling, undoubtedly because of the nice little mouse, and also because it looks like Daisy and so is easy for me to remember how to spell it. If easy spelling is a priority, this is the one I’d pick, because I could say, “Maisy: like Daisy, but with an M.”

The Oxford Dictionary of First Names lists only Maisie as its own entry, with Maisy listed as a variant spelling.

Current U.S. usage looks like this according to the Social Security Administration (2017 data; including spellings used for at least 25 babies):

Maisie 594
Maisy 178
Mazie 124
Maizie 90
Maizy 60
Mayzie 55
Maisey 44
Maizey 34
Maizee 32

I do think you will have to spell it constantly, but I have to spell my name (Kristen) constantly: some names are just like that. Picking one of the most common spellings will help, but people still sometimes guess mine as Cristin or whatever, and it’s fine: I know there are a lot of ways to spell my name. However, if you are someone who thinks of names phonetically, I wonder if you’d be happier with a name with a spelling that comes immediately to your mind, or with a name that has only one familiar spelling—and ideally, a name where those two things unite, as with your daughter’s name.

This seems like a good moment for a poll. The poll thing on my blog no longer works, so we are now giving Twitter polls a try: https://twitter.com/Swistle/status/1022828579216863240. It will only let me do four options, so I will do the four you mention—which, happily, are also the four most commonly used in the U.S. as of 2017. People who want to choose another option will have to say so in the comments; it is not a perfect system, but it is what we’ve got. [Poll closed; see results below:]

As for Frederick/Fredrik, I have in general such a preference for traditional/familiar spellings (and especially when the first child has a traditionally-spelled name), it’s hard for me to even turn my mind to it. Here is the 2017 U.S. usage:

Frederick 580
Fredrick 149
Frederic 47
Fredrik 20
Fredric 13
Frederik 10

If Fredrik is the dominant spelling in another country, you could use that as your reasoning; bonus points if it’s a country of ancestry for either of you. Or the spelling Fredrick would let you say “It’s like Fred plus Rick.” Otherwise, again, I wonder if you would be happier in the long run finding a name where the spelling in your head is the same as the usual spelling.

Name update:

Thank you Swistle for posting our question, you and your readers gave us a lot to consider!

Our baby girl, Maisie Belle, arrived September 28th. We are so in love and she fits her name perfectly!

Thanks so much for your help!