Update on Baby Naming Issue: Can They Name Her Mila and Pronounce It Myla?

Greetings, Swistle:

My husband and I are expecting a boy towards the end of February. We plan to have only one child.

We briefly discussed names before we found out the gender at 12 weeks but we both had initially agreed on Vesper or Vespera for a girl. Middle name for a boy or girl would be an honor name.

Since then, we have been lost. I have become obsessed with finding the “perfect” name and he finds a name he likes, attaches to it for a few weeks, and then gets bored with it. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and he wants to just choose a name when the little guy is here but I find the idea daunting and think it’s important to at least have a short list of names.

My name is a misspelled variation of a trendy 80s girl name. His name is a nickname variation of a classic boys name. Both begin with A and last name is McIntire. Neither of us want anything remotely common, but I prefer something still established and “usable” with a nickname variation that’s not too weird for a resume and he ventures into names that I consider not usable at all. We are in the United States and my ancestry is mostly Scottish, Irish and English while his is mostly Scottish, German and Spanish.

Current front-runners are Lucian/Lucan or Finan/Finnan. Lucian is derived from Latin, Lucan and Finan are Gaelic. My hesitation is whether they are too weird and whether the LO will be swimming in a sea of Finn’s in a few years. Lucas is classic but it seems Finn is trendy.

Other names that have not been completely vetoed are Killian/Cillian and Cassian. His favorites are Aquila, Quill, Achilles and Acacius. I also like Caius, Eamon, Cormac, Leander and Malakai but most don’t really work with our last name. My parents have resorted to calling the baby Jack and I love the name but it is way too popular for my taste and also doesn’t work with our last name.

Please help us. I will be happy to send an update if this child ever has a name.

Kind regards,

I was very amused by the subject line of your email (“An Impossible Couple Seeks a Boy Name”) and hope this post will not be far too late to help.

There is a certain joy in choosing a baby name without taking sibling names into account, and I am feeling that joy here. I think you have a lot of good/cool choices to work with.

I think the most difficult thing about naming the first child is really CONCEPTUALIZING the baby as a person. This is one use for The Starbucks Test, which is where you take one of the names you’re considering for the baby, and say it to the barista as if it were your own. It helps to bridge that gap between names that are cool and fun to think about, and names that work for a real actual person living life and ordering coffee. I think this is the sort of thing that may assist a baby-namer of your husband’s variety: it’s one thing to suggest Achilles/Acacius when you’ve grown up as, say, a Matt, and quite another to say it with your own voice to someone who has to write it on a cup.

Which is not to imply I think Achilles/Acacius should be off the table. No: name variety is lovely and I am fresh from seeing many, many classroom valentines-exchange lists containing many surprising names. It’s more that I think it’s a good idea to go into such a choice with a firm grasp of the context in which the name will be used once it is off of the ideas list and onto the actual person. “Can you change Achilles’s diaper?” and “Acacius, how many times do I have to tell you to put the toilet seat down??” and “Dinnertime, Aquila!”

Here’s another exercise for getting names to click out of the theoretical: Go to a public place where there is a wide variety of people of a wide variety of ages/types (a mall is perfect, if you have one near you). Bring your name lists with you, and sit where you can see lots of people (near the food court is my favorite). One at a time, take a name from the list, and apply it to a bunch of people of various ages. “That baby’s name is Killian. That toddler’s name is Killian. His father’s name is Killian. That elderly man’s name is Killian. The custodian’s name is Killian. The clerk at the crepes stand is also named Killian.” Does the name WORK? Do you think, “Yeah, that fits a nice variety of people!”

I know you’ve heard me say this a million times before, but I strongly encourage shifting the goal away from perfection if at all possible. Especially when you are naming just one child, I think there can be a feeling almost as if there is One Best Name, and that this is your one chance to use it, and that you must find it. But there are lots and lots of names that would work well for any given baby, and the parents’ only real responsibility is to choose something the baby can later write on their homework and say to the barista and give to the receptionist when they arrive for their appointment. A name can be a delightful, meaningful, beautiful thing, but it is at its heart a PRACTICAL thing, and so as long as you are making a good faith effort to give him a good, useful name, everything is going to be fine.

Lucian, Lucan, Finan, Finnan, Finian—those all seem to me to fit the bill. It’s hard to predict which names will rise to the point where their popularity may cause you regret; at some point I think the only thing to do is pick your favorite and hope for the best.

If you wanted to add more contenders to the list (and perhaps at this late point that would be unhelpful), I notice a LOT of K/Q/hard-C and L sounds in your lists. I might skim one more time through the boy-name section of a baby name book, saying each one aloud briskly and scanning for those sounds. Aidric, Alec, Arlo, Brannock, Brecken, Broderick, Calder, Callan, Calvin, Clark, Declan, Kellan, Lachlan, etc.

Hey Swistle, fun question for you. Sort of by happenstance, both our girls have historic names with bird nicknames. Katherine called Wren and Hilaria called Lark. (Okay, honestly it’s 30% full names, 20% Wren and Lark, 50% Doodle and Roo, from a lullaby I sing them.)

We are not currently expecting, but it struck me as a fun sort of lying-awake exercise: what other names have avian and/or natural nicknames?
I’d get particularly excited about something that led to the nickname Dove. Dora Verity? Paloma, I suppose. David!

B.

That IS a fun question, and a perfect one for a day when it feels as if there is some faint hope that spring may one day return to our midst.

I am fond of the names where the natural nickname Bertie can instead be Birdy/Birdie. I think it’s a lovely way to handle an honor name that may not quite have come back into style just yet (Roberta, Alberta). I think it also works as a nickname for Bernadette.

I have heard that that name Robin started as a nickname for the name Robert, and I haven’t been so charmed since I heard of Hodge as a nickname for Roger.

As I sit in the waiting room of a doctor’s office, I hear a receptionist named Avis saying her name again and again as she answers the phone, and I think about how uncommon her name is, especially considering how close it is to the much more common name Ava.

More bird (or similar nature-y) names/nicknames?

Dear Swistle,

I try to pay attention to initials, and we are considering a name that would spell DAB. I don’t mind the fact that the word is a fairly innocuous verb, but I am more concerned that a Google search of the word brings up a page filled with references to marijuana, and the dance/picture pose fad. I am not highly into pop culture, so I am seeking input to see if this is something that will be commonly picked up on. Will the dance/picture fad be old enough by the time the baby is old enough for conversation that it won’t be something that comes to mind amongst their peers? Perhaps your readers could share opinions on this?

Thank you

My vote is that this is a non-issue. My own preference is to avoid initials spelling things when possible, and I’m familiar with the annoying dab pose (I had to look up the marijuana term), and this still feels like a big shrug to me if you love the name.

When I’m trying to figure out if a naming issue is a problem (like when initials spell something, or when the first name blends into the surname), what I do is think about what bad thing could happen as a result of the initials/blending; I can’t picture anything very bad happening here. What if in elementary school your child’s peers find out their initials, AND people are still dabbing, AND those little kids know more than I do about marijuana vocabulary? WHAT THEN?? Nothing important, is what. And that’s IF they find out the initials! And if there WAS a “What’s your middle name?”/”What are your initials?” trend (there was at my school, but to be fair I was the one who started it and I have always been more than normally interested in names), there would definitely be other kids with slightly odd/funny initials to take some of the heat.

I should have asked my kids before they went to school, but I’m imagining what they’d do if they found out a friend had the initials DAB. Elizabeth’s group of friends (9th graders) does some mild affectionate recurring name-related teasing, and here are some of the things she’s mentioned:

1) Occasionally calling someone a funny mispronunciation of their name, especially if it happened in a group experience (e.g., the substitute teacher mispronounced someone’s name, or someone once mistyped the name in a group chat)

2) Occasionally pretending a nickname is short for a different name/word (e.g., pretending to think Addy is short for Advertisement)

3) Occasionally using a nickname the person doesn’t use (e.g., calling an Elizabeth “Betsy” or “Liz” when she only goes by Elizabeth)

4) Occasionally calling someone by their full name, especially if the middle name is considered by the group to be embarrassing (generally the vintage-revival or honor names we love here, so that I am constantly saying “But that’s a LOVELY name!” while Elizabeth rolls her eyes).

My guess is that there would be the occasional “Calling the person ‘DAB’ and then doing that dumb pose,” and that that’s all there would be to it—and that even THAT is somewhat unlikely to happen. (Elizabeth is more than typically interested in names, and the running name-related jokes are not happening in any of my other kids’ friend groups.)

Twitter poll: Are the initials DAB enough of an issue that they shouldn’t use the name? [poll closed; see results below]

Dear Swistle, Is Josie too close of a sibling name for Sophie? What about Zoey with Sophie? Too similar? I like names that end in the long-e sound (ie, y) but don’t want to end up with names that sound too similar.

They’re too close for my own personal taste—but it’s easy to think of tons of families I know who have used two names that are closer than I’d like, and it isn’t the sort of thing that is causing shock-waves throughout our community.

It’s not just matching endings but also a matching dominant vowel sound: both pairings of names include a matching OH-EE. Calling one of those names from a distance, I think you’re going to get both kids answering.

Sophie and Zoey are even closer than Sophie and Josie, because S and Z are very similar: S is the unvoiced version of the sound, and Z is the voiced one. So then it’s more like two and a half points of overlap: half a point for the first sound, then the OH, and then the EE—and with the same number of syllables in the same order. Well, and if you’re saying Josie JO-see instead of JO-zee, then that matches an S sound with Sophie, though in a different part of the name.

But lots of people LOVE similar sibling names and do it on purpose! There are people who have an Ella and an Emma! A Noah and an Owen! A James and a Jane! An Emily and an Amelia! So if you love the names, and you love them together, and you won’t be bothered by other people’s occasional confusion, then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with going ahead with it. They ARE different names, they just SOUND similar.

Twitter poll [closed; see results below]:

Twitter poll [closed; see results below]:

Update on Baby Naming Issue: Is the Name They Love (Calla) Too Unusual / Made-up / Not Really a Name

Dear Swistle,

I am pregnant with my first child, a girl, due in May. As a lifelong name enthusiast, I am astounded to find myself having such difficulty choosing a name for her. Our surname is long and Dutch and sounds similar to Vansanover. We are Americans currently living in London; we will more than likely be headed back to the US within the next several years, so we are most concerned with the popularity and perceptions of names from an American perspective.

We have narrowed our name search to three options, Bernadette, Florence and Felicity, with Bernadette being the current front-runner. I have always loved this name for its strong but charming meaning and the endless nickname possibilities (we particularly love Betty and Birdie but also like that she could choose something herself as she gets older).

The only thing holding me back from choosing Bernadette enthusiastically is that it has recently come to my attention that it is perceived as a Catholic name. Neither my husband nor I are religious. The religious connotation doesn’t bother us per se, especially since the meaning of the name is entirely secular. However, I realize her name will inform others’ perceptions of her, and I don’t really want everyone assuming she is a strictly observant Catholic without meeting her. My impression is that Brits are much more attuned to the Catholic connotation than Americans are, but it’s also possible I was oblivious to it in the US since the religious communities in my hometown were predominantly protestant. My British friends say it conjures an image of a mean old nun and that no one actually names their children Bernadette (i.e. it is only used as a nun’s religious name).

Her middle name will be Flynn, my mother’s maiden name, which seems to double down on the Catholic-ness.

How strong do you think the Catholic association with this name is in the US? Would you assume a girl named Bernadette came from a Catholic family? How much should this matter?

Thanks for you help!

Amy

HERE IS WHAT I THINK. I think there has been a major shift in using names formerly strongly associated with religion, and that this shift has happened within the last generation. I remember before my children were born encountering my first baby named Noah and being shocked, SHOCKED, that someone would use such a strikingly biblical name. I’d gone to Christian schools for middle school and college, and not even conservative evangelical Christians would use a name like Noah! Josiah, sure, and there were plenty of Davids and Sarahs and Matthews and Rebeccas, but not NOAH!

And now the name Noah is the number one most popular boy name in the United States, and there is no reason to assume the parents of any given Noah are religious. Also in style: Ezra, Elijah, Levi, Isaac, Asher, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Moses. Older generations may still find it a little shocking, especially if they are not baby-name hobbyists and so haven’t been keeping track of the trends—but the current kid-naming parents find these names completely mainstream/contemporary.

I used to think of the name Bernadette as Very Catholic. I’d known only two Bernadettes: a mom at the same daycare where I encountered my first Noah; and Bernadette-called-Benny in Maeve Binchy’s book Circle of Friends. I was also familiar with it as one of many Nun Names. All very very Catholic associations.

But now! Now if I encountered a baby named Bernadette, I might WONDER if the family was Catholic but, as with the name Noah, I would actually think it was more likely they were NOT religious. (Furthermore, I’d be DELIGHTED to encounter the name and its delightful nicknames.) I think it’s highly possible your friends who are appalled at this Mean Old Nun name are just in the same stage I was when I was shocked by a Noah, and that they will catch up soon. And I think in the U.S., even if people might at first wonder if the usage is for Catholic-related reasons, they will soon understand from other clues that it is not. I say it’s fabulous and I say USE IT. (But I also LOVE both your other choices, and would feel equally delighted to encounter either of those names.)

Hello Swistle,

I need help with a name for my third daughter. My first born is Brielle and my second born is Savannah. There nicknames are Bri and Savi. We will be expecting our little angel in May. My husband likes the name Brooke and Paige.. I am torn, as I dont know if its ok to have two B names and leave the middle child with an S name. I dont want her to feel different.

I would love any suggestions you can recommend.

Thank you,
Candace Filla

I am not worried about one child feeling left out or different because she has an S-name and her sisters have B-names: this seems like the kind of thing we worry about during the pregnancy and then it never ends up being an issue—or it ends up being the opposite issue, and her sisters are jealous that SHE has her own initial. (This is how I would have felt: mad to have to share, not mad to be left out.)

(If it DID ever come up, you could play the Same/Different Game: “Yes, Bri and Brooke start with Br-, and you start with S-. You and Brielle and Brooke all have double letters in your names, but you all have a different number of syllables: Brooke’s name is one, Brielle’s is two, and yours is three. You and Bri both have nicknames ending in -i….” And so on. You can include your name and your husband’s name to make the game more fun, and to widen the pool of people who don’t share an initial.)

I do worry a little about how similar the names Bri and Brooke sound: starting with the same letter-blend is more matchy than starting with the same initial. And I worry a little that Brielle and Savannah are highly feminine names, while Brooke and Paige are preppy, low-frill names. And I worry a little that Brielle and Savannah both have nicknames, while Brooke does not.

Popularity is another factor: Savannah was in style alongside Brooke and Paige a couple of decades ago, when the name Brielle was rare; but while Savannah has been holding onto its Top 50 ranking, Brooke and Paige have been diving into the 200s. Meanwhile, the name Brielle is rising, hitting the Top 100 for the first time in 2018. I think Savannah and Brooke and Savannah and Paige could work well as sister name pairings because of their earlier shared popularity, but that then Brielle feels like the odd name out. But if we look for other recently-gaining-popularity choices to go with Brielle, then the name Savannah could feel like the odd name out—especially if the little dip it took in popularity in 2018 turns out to have been the beginning of a decline. The good news: this is all looking very promising for playing Same/Different, since we’re finding ways to make EVERY name seem like the different one!

Finally, would the child’s surname be Filla, and is that pronounced like the way someone who dropped their R’s might say the word “filler”? I would probably avoid noun names that can sound like little jokes: Brooke Filla sounds like a riddle for a rainstorm, Paige Filla like a riddle for a writer.

I was going to make a list of more options to consider, but we don’t have much to go on: we have two names your husband likes, plus two names the two of you agreed on for previous children. I think what I would suggest is starting over: BOTH of you make lists, and see which names you like best with your first two daughters’ names. My own inclination would be to find another name with a nickname, but that would only be a preference.