Author Archives: Swistle

Baby Girl Black or Cohen

Dear Swistle,

We want to name our baby girl-to-be after my grandmothers. She’s our first child, so no siblings. She’s due this fall. We don’t know yet what her last name will be, since my husband and I have different last names, but it will be either Black or Cohen.

Together, my grandmothers’ names were: Geulah (pronounced Guh-oo-lah), Rose (nickname Ronnie), and Naomi. We would be happy with a combination of any two of the three names for the first and middle name, but want the first name to be after either Geulah or Rose. We don’t need the names to be the same as my grandmothers’ names, just similar enough to know who the baby is named after.

We don’t want to use the name Geulah, but like the idea of a name that starts with G and has an L in it. I was looking at names and found the name Geila (pronounced Guy-lah), which I think is beautiful (and my husband likes too), but we worry it might be too hard to pronounce and people might pronounce it Gay-lah (we live in the US). We don’t really like the name Gail.

We like the name Rose as a middle name, but not as a first name (similar for Naomi), but again don’t need the baby to have the exact same name as her great-grandmothers.

Generally, we want to avoid names that are too trendy or too common, but also don’t want to name our child something that no one can pronounce or understand. Our minds are spinning trying to think of good name options, and I love your advice so I was hoping you’d have suggestions for good name combinations! Thank you!

 

At first glance this looks like an interesting and solvable math puzzle: Here are three names A, B, and C; you want to use any two of the three; the first name must be either A or B; the middle name can be A, B, or C. We can almost picture the show-your-work area of our math worksheets, where we would have to write the equation and remember to indicate that after we choose the first name we need to remove that option for the middle name. This is going to be fun!

We begin working. Let’s see. The first name must be A or B—but A is difficult and you don’t want to use it as-is, and other versions of it are either similarly difficult or else you don’t like them. Well, okay, that’s simple enough: we will use B! …Oh, but you don’t want to use B as the first name. Hm. *scribbles and erases* *thinks* *scribbles and erases* *thinks* *raises hand to ask the teacher for help*

You want to honor your grandmothers by using their names, but you don’t actually want to use their names as first names. This is a completely understandable situation, and it happens to many, many parents. One common option is for parents to use an honor name they don’t like as the middle name, and choose a name they DO like as the first name. A second option is to use a name they don’t like as the first name, but use it with a nickname they DO like (Geulah/Lula, Rose/Ronnie, Naomi/Mimi). A third option is to give up on honoring grandparents in this way, and instead honor them in other ways. My favorite for you is the first option: choose a name you like as the first name, and use one of the three grandmother names as the middle name. If you’re planning to have more children, save the extra names for them.

Or there’s that other option you mentioned, which is to look for substitutes for the names. That’s a path I normally avoid, because I feel it dilutes the honor so much. My own name is Kristen; if a baby were named Kinsley after me, I wouldn’t feel that was any connection at all to my name, even though it starts with K and has an I, S, an E, AND an N in it just like my name. But my opinion on this is far from universal, so let’s look for some names that start with G:

Gabrielle
Gaia
Galen
Galina
Garnet
Geneva
Genevieve
Georgia
Gia
Gianna
Gillian
Gloria
Goldie
Grace
Greta
Guinevere
Gwen
Gwendolyn
Gwynne

None of these seem to me to capture the essence of Geulah; the ones that seem closest to me are Gaia, Galina, Georgia, and Gloria. I wonder if there just aren’t enough G names to find what we’re looking for. Maybe a name like Julia or Abigail or Lula or Twila or Tallulah or Eulalie would be more reminiscent. Julia Rose Cohen. Abigail Naomi Black.

If I encountered the name Geila, my first two attempts would be rhymes-with-Layla and rhymes-with-Sheila. I would not get to the Guy sound without help. Let’s see if we can think of some words/names where -ei- is pronounced like long-I; that’s usually what I need to help me across a pronunciation hurdle. I thought of Heidi and Lorelei and Eileen and Reilly—but those aren’t helping enough in the face of Reid and Ryleigh and Leighton. Geiger and Geisel should REALLY help—but I’m thwarted by geisha. My eye also skips from the Ge to the L, making me think of gel and compromising what I know must be a hard-G.

The name Geila is completely unused in the U.S. right now, and that is probably the heart of my problem: if I KNEW a Geila, it wouldn’t take me long to remember how to pronounce it. The first few times I would say to myself “Like Eileen!,” and then after that it would just seem natural, the same way I’m able to remember Lorelei and Leighton and Leigh without mnemonics. But if I were the one named Geila, who had to be the first Geila everyone met, I think I would get very tired of pronouncing and spelling my name.

For these and other reasons, my inclination has been to stick to Rose and Naomi. Naomi Rose is gorgeous—but you don’t want to use Naomi as the first name. So, Rose Naomi. But you don’t want to use Rose as the first name. So then let’s look for Rose-like names:

Azalea
Cosette
Dahlia
Flora
Hazel
Iris
Josie
Primrose
Romy
Rosa
Rosalie
Rosaline
Rosella
Rosemary
Rosie
Rowan
Ruby
Violet
Zinnia

Plus all the double-name options: Emma Rose, Ella Rose, Anna Rose, Mia Rose. Would Mia Rose or Mimi Rose or Noa Rose seem like Naomi + Rose? Would Lula Rose or Julia Rose seem like Geulah + Rose? Would Rose Noelle seem like Rose + Naomi?

Or would you want to work with Ronnie? You could go Rose —> Ronnie —> Veronica.

Or what about this option: a name you like as the first name, then pick TWO grandmother names as middle names, but use them as they are. FirstName Naomi Rose Surname. Or Firstname Geulah Rose Surname. Or whatever combination sounds best with the chosen first name and chosen surname.

 

 

 

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

I wanted to update you on the name we ended up choosing for our daughter: your post and the comments were all very helpful, and we ended up going with the name mentioned in the very first comment (and others!). We’re Jewish, so it’s common to have a name variation to honor someone. Our daughter’s full name is Galia Ruth Cohen Black. We were able to get the G-L and similar meaning for the first name, and an “R” for the middle name (and we gave her both of our last names!). We decided that Galia, while it isn’t common in the US, sounds like “Talia” so will be recognizable enough. For her middle name, we were going to use the name “Rose”, but Ruth Bader Ginsburg died just before she was born so in honor of her we changed our daughter’s middle name last minute (literally–we decided this in the hospital the day she was born!).

Thank you again!

Baby Girl Emayiss-without-the-E, Sister to Josephine

Dear Swistle,

This August we’re expecting our second child. We call Josephine (1 1/2) by her full name, though we are open to nicknames developing (my personal favorite being Posie).

For daughter #2, our top choice is Alice.

I’m wary of the way Alice sounds with our last name (pronounced like emmaus-without-the-E). I feel like the repetitive “iss” sound makes it sound oddly scientific/Latin, especially with the matching number of syllables.

We love the name Elise, but I would want to use it as a nickname for Elisabeth, a family name (both maternal great-grandmother and godmother/aunt of the baby are named Elizabeth).

My husband is completely against the idea of deciding on a nickname from birth/giving one name but having them go by another.

So it comes down to Elisabeth or Alice. Or, is it just Elisabeth? I keep struggling with the sound of the full name with Alice! Am I imagining an issue where there isn’t one?

Thanks for any input and advice!

Best,

Lauren

Extra info:
– We’re a Belgian-American family, living in Belgium. Classic names tend to sound good in both English and Flemish.
– Josephine is named after her paternal great-grandmother
– We like Julie, but don’t want two J-names
– We like Clementine and Olivia, but don’t feel like they’re right for this baby
– The middle name(s, we give two) don’t need to be considered
– we hope to have three children

 

I began by looking up how to pronounce Emmaus, and for those of you in the same boat, it’s roughly em-MAY-us or eh-MAY-iss, that’s the gist of it.

With that surname (minus the first syllable), I don’t like the sound of either Alice or Elise: the S-sound of the endings just hits my ear very wrong, especially with Alice where the vowel sound also matches, making something close to a rhyme. So my definite choice among the options is Elisabeth without calling her Elise. And I think Elisabeth is terrific with the name Josephine. And I love that it is honoring two women in your family.

Baby Girl Rock-with-an-L: Veronica or Rose?

Hi Swistle,

My husband and I are expecting our first baby in early August and it’s a girl! Her last name will be Rock-with-an-L.

Because of our surname I’ve always thought I would try to steer away from single syllable names and other word names.

Even before we were married and anywhere near trying for kids, our girl name was always Veronica. It’s still on our list but after it being “the name” for a hypothetical baby for so long it’s started to lose its appeal to my husband but I am not ready to give up on it quite yet.

The name we both love and are leaning towards using is Rose. Naturally, it goes against all my “rules”. It is one syllable, and it is another word name. Does Rose Rock-with-an-L sound too choppy? More importantly does it sound like a description? A rose coloured lock, or a rose shaped lock? Or am I over thinking it?

The other girl name we considered is Josephine/Josie but decided we liked Rose and Veronica enough to leave the list at those two options.

She will have two middle names: Kelly (my middle name, and my moms maiden name) and Zofia (Sophie in polish after my husbands grandmother)

Rose Kelly Zofia Rock-with-an L
Or
Veronica Kelly Zofia Rock-with-an-L

Our boy names were Declan, Henry, Calvin, and Jack (unusable with Rose obviously) but didn’t really have a clear front runner before we found out the gender.

Thanks for your help! I will send an update when she arrives!

 

I think those are both terrific options. I don’t think Rose Rock-with-an-L sounds too nouny; it does sound nouny, but it doesn’t sound to me like it describes anything. I think it sounds nice, and memorable in only a good way, and I like the way it LOOKS too: two 4-letter words, both with an O as the second letter. Excellent name. I love it.

But Veronica! Oh, I love it TOO. And with the surname! I perish.

How will you choose? HOW WILL YOU CHOOSE?? I really think the only solution is to have two girls so you can use both names.

Let’s have a poll on Twitter; it’s not perfect, but it’s what we’ve got. Go to the poll on Twitter [poll closed; see results below:]

 

 

 

Name update:

Thanks for posting our question/your suggestions! Rose Zofia Kelly was born earlier this month and Her name suites her perfectly! We’ve been calling her Rose, Rosie and Rosie Posie so far :)

Baby Boy B., Brother to Elizabeth (Lizzie) and August (Gus)

Hello!

We are expecting our third kiddo (a boy) and cannot agree upon a name from our very limited list of ideas so far.

My husband and I are Jenny and Bryan, last name is two syllables and starts with a B. Our daughter is Elizabeth Louise (Lizzie) and our son is August Charles (Gus).

We like classic / traditional names that can be shortened to less common or punchy sounding nicknames. There is family history to both first and middle names of our first two children. In hindsight, we wished we would have not used Charles as a middle name for our first son so that this baby could be Charles (Charlie or Chas) which is a family name. We are also feeling much more pressure this time around to select a name that goes well with the sibling set and that follows the trend of going by a nickname of the given first name. Names that we have considered but that we cannot commit to or agree upon include:

Henry (nn Huck) — though Henry by itself seems so popular right now if Huck doesn’t stick and we don’t care for other nicknames for Henry such as Hank.
Ezekiel (nn Zeke) which my husband says sounds too biblical compared to our first two.
Archer (nn Archie) — perhaps too popular now with the royal family association?
Jack
We also considered Theodore (Theo) until this baby’s grandma chose that name for her cat.
Sullivan (Sully) — though we like the nickname Sully, Sullivan seems to break the mold of the more traditional sounding names of the first two.
Sidney (Sid) which my husband doesn’t care for as a boy’s name.

Other family names we could consider as middle names but probably not as a first name unless we came up with an unconventional nick name would include:
Thomas
Robert

Thank you for your help!

Jenny B

 

I am interested to see if commenters will have good fresh nickname options for Thomas/Robert. I have heard of Robin as a nickname for Robert; and there’s Bertie, which is starting to sound cute again. My kids go to school with a boy nicknamed Robbie, which felt at least a little fresh to me.

I’ve been noticing a little uptick in the use of old-fashioned nicknames such as Johnny and Jimmy and Timmy and Eddie, and I wonder if any of those would work for you. Because the trend has been for kids to go by their full names, even standard nicknames such as Bobby and Tommy are starting to sound fresh again.

I think the concern about Huck (or any nickname) not sticking is a valid one: it’s wise to make sure you’d also be happy using the given name. The name Elizabeth is so popular, the popularity of Henry seems like less of a concern in this case. One thing I particularly like about Henry is that because it ends in -y as many nicknames do, it has a sound that goes with the other two names either way: Elizabeth, August, and Henry; Lizzy, Gus, and Henry.

Ezekiel does feel biblical (and much more distinctly biblical than Elizabeth, even though Elizabeth is also a biblical name); but biblical names have become so mainstream, I think it isn’t too jarring. And I think Gus and Zeke are terrific together. It does bother me a little how much the names Elizabeth and Ezekiel overlap in letters/sound/emphasis. But Lizzie, Gus, and Zeke is fabulous.

It’s hard to predict the effect of the royal family on the name Archer. I remember with previous royal babies Charlotte and George, there was a shying-away from those names: we got many letters saying “Oh no, we’d decided on Charlotte/George, but now we can’t use them!” Elizabeth, August, and Archer; Lizzie, Gus, and Archie. That’s pretty great!

 

I can’t tell from the letter if you want to stick to family names again this time. If not, I’ll mention a few others that came to mind.

I think Cal would go very nicely in this group. Elizabeth, August, and Calvin; Lizzie, Gus, and Cal. Or same grouping, but nickname Vinny.

Or Wes. Elizabeth, August, and Wesley. Lizzie, Gus, and Wes.

Or Ned. Elizabeth, August, and Edward; Lizzie, Gus, and Ned. Oh, or same grouping, but nickname Ted/Teddy. I like that! Lizzie, Gus, and Teddy.

Or Freddie. Elizabeth, August, and Frederick; Lizzie, Gus, and Freddie.

Or Frankie. Elizabeth, August, and Franklin; Lizzy, Gus, and Frankie.

 

If you continue to struggle, I suggest dropping some of your preferences. After only two children, no pattern is so established that you should feel forced to continue it. If this time there is no good nickname, or the nickname comes from initials instead of from the first name, or the name is less traditional or the nickname is less punchy—all of those things are fine, and not startling or unusual.

Baby Girl Taylor, Sister to Judson and Willa; Goldie for a Non-Blonde?

Hi!! We are expecting our 3rd and likely final baby (a girl) in June. We already have a son Judson and a daughter Willa. We are drawn to more vintage names that are not common but familiar. Our last name sounds like “Taylor.” We can’t seem to decide on the one!

I really love the name Goldie but think it may be strange if our baby is born with dark hair. (Our son is brunette and daughter are blonde so theres a 50/50 shot. Thoughts? We have thought about Marigold with the nn option of Goldie but not sure if it goes with siblings’ names.

Here are some other names we have tossed around:
Flora
Rosie
Daisy
Clementine
Delilah
Hazel
Siena

Middle name will likely be Lennon to honor a family member.

Would love your thoughts on Goldie and other potential names to complete our sibset!

Thank you!!
Caroline

 

I am intrigued by questions of name/appearance. This question has come up with other such potentially-interpreted-as-descriptive names (Rudy for non-redhead, Ruby Rose for a redhead, Annie for a redhead, why can I only think of redhead-related examples), and what I find intriguing is that the question can go either way: i.e., we can equally well ask if it is odd if a child named Goldie DOES have golden hair or if she DOESN’T. Like, maybe it starts to seem a little too much like those old stories in which three sisters have white, brown, and black horses named, respectively, Whitey, Brownie, and Blackie; or maybe it’s like if someone had a brown horse named Blackie.

Well. I know hair genes are complicated (and also this is a name blog, but I am feeling caffeinated and chatty so let’s have a digression), but it is my impression from casual observation that a lot of kids with blonde hair grow up to have brown hair, particularly if there are any brown-hair genes in the family. That is, my Norwegian friend’s family has blonde kids who will all likely be blonde as adults, because my friend and her husband are both blonde as adults. But in my family, where Paul and I both had versions of blonde hair as children but now his hair is dark brown and mine is light brown, I didn’t expect any of our blonde children to make it to adulthood with blonde hair. If it is similar in your family, and I think it must be if you have a dark-haired child, then the question of whether it’s odd to have a non-blonde person named Goldie is pertinent no matter what color hair she’s born with.

My own feeling is that I think I would RATHER use the name Goldie on someone who was not likely to have blonde hair. On a blonde person, the name Goldie reminds me in a small way of the nickname Blondie: descriptive in a way that could seem reductive. On a person with any other color of hair, it clicks in as a Bobbsey Twins / jazz era nickname name like Flossie and Dixie.

I love the name Marigold, and I love having more options for names/nicknames. However, if you’re only considering Marigold to get to Goldie, I don’t think that’s necessary. Judson, Willa, and Goldie; Judson, Willa, and Marigold. Those are both good combinations.

However, the stand-out name to me from your list is Flora. It goes beautifully with Willa, and has no issues with hair color or being nicknamey. Judson, Willa, and Flora.

 

 

 

Name update:

Hi! I wanted to send an update to share that we welcomed our beautiful daughter,
Marigold (Goldie) Lennon on 6/17/20.

She was born with a full head of dark hair and just knew she was “Goldie” no matter what color her hair is/will be. We love Marigold and love that she’ll have more name options.

Thank you so much for all of your help naming our girl!

Caroline

Baby Girl Thompson, Sister to Madeline (Maddie)

Hello!

I’m due this summer with my second child, a girl, and my husband and I are in the throws of the great name debate of 2020. Our first, named Madeline, nn Maddie, and a mutual decision and we both love her name. This time around, we have two different top choices, and very few names are jumping out at us. To complicate matters, we both love a good nickname, but I’m getting a little sick of the “ie” names, which is a little limiting.

My top choice:
Juliet (nn Jules or Jet (is this a stretch? I think its fun))

His top choice:
Chloe
Virginia (nn Ginny)

Other names we like:
Penelope (nn Penny/Poppy)
Gabrielle/Gabriella (nn Gabby)
Savannah

We do not want a name that starts with a B, E, or V (I feel more strongly on this than he does). Any other recs? Thank you so much!

 

The only name standing out to me as an odd choice with Madeline is Virginia—and I’m not sure I can even put a finger on why. Visually they’re so nice together: approximately the same length, a nice overlap/difference in letters. Part of it is the startling usage gap: Maddie/Addie names have enjoyed a surge of popularity in recent years, while the Ginny/Jenny names are having a well-earned rest. The name Virginia has been almost completely off of my own personal name radar (which may mean it is due for a big comeback soon), but I hear about Maddies all the time. It gives me a personal feeling of Name Difference that may have nothing to do with the actual compatibility of the names; these impressions are so dependent on the particular names in our particular social circles.

Still, from your husband’s list, Chloe makes a lot more sense to me: like Maddie/Addie names, it is enjoying some popularity right now. “Maddie and Chloe” seems right as a sister set. A downside of Chloe is that it doesn’t have a natural nickname; another downside is you mention being a little tired of -ie names, and it has that sound.

I like the way the name Juliet spins the name Madeline: from contemporary favorite to vintage charm. Madeline and Chloe are current sisters; Madeline and Juliet could be in a historical novel. They’re visually appealing to me together. There’s still a bit of a popularity gap. Hm. I’m aware of how very subjective all this is, but if you’re asking for our own personal opinions, and you are, I like Madeline/Maddie with Juliet/Jules best of the options discussed so far. I think Jet is one of those cool nicknames that depends on the child: on some kids it’s not going to sit comfortably, and on others it’ll be a natural fit.

I think your whole “other names we like” list is great. I don’t have a sense for how far down your preference list those are: is it that Juliet is by far your first choice and Virginia/Chloe are by far your husband’s first choices, and the other names are only technically in the running; or are you both pretty prepared to forsake your own favorites for the joint favorites? Madeline and Penelope, Madeline and Gabrielle, Madeline and Savannah—those all make sense to me as sisters. There are some nickname options if you want to avoid the -ie/-y sound: Nell for Penelope, Ella for Gabrielle/Gabriella, Vanna/Anna for Savannah.

More names to consider, if you haven’t already:

Abigail/Abby
Amelia/Mia
Annabel/Anna/Bella
Audrey
Charlotte/Charlie/Lottie
Clarissa
Eloise (I like the literary tie-in, but it starts with E)
Grace
Josephine/Josie/Posey
Katherine/Kate
Laurel
Lucy
Noelle/Ella
Nora
Rosalie/Rose/Rosie
Sabrina/Bri/Bree

I included a few that don’t have good nicknames. Part of the reason was that I wondered if a solution to “we love a good nickname”/”we’re tired of the -ie thing” might be a standalone name with a nicknamey quality: Lucy and Nora, for example, can be used as they are or can be used as nicknames, so maybe they satisfy the nickname urge as they are. (Though of course Lucy still ends in the -ie sound, so maybe that gets us nowhere.) And part of the reason was that sometimes even if a name isn’t Right, it can remind people of OTHER names that ARE right.

 

 

 

Name update: Juliet (Jet)

Baby Rhymes-with-Fenwick, Sibling to Alice: Willa Katherine?

Hi Swistle!

I am due with my second baby in June. We don’t know the sex, but if it is a girl my husband and I both love the first name Willa. In debating middle names, we’ve somewhat settled on Katherine. However, my question is: Does Willa Katherine sound too much like Willa Cather, the famous author? Does it matter? I know she’s not incredibly well-known today, but I feel like those who know, know, and she’s definitely history’s most famous Willa.

If the general consensus is yes I would love some other suggestions for a middle name that sounds nice with Willa. I feel like the middle name has to be somewhat sophisticated – for example, I love the middle name June, but Willa June started to sound a little too “down on the farm” for me. I hope that’s ok to say.

My older daughter’s name is Alice. Our last name rhymes with Fenwick. Would love your opinion and help with other options!

Best,

Emily

 

For me, Willa Katherine strongly evokes Willa Cather—enough so that it almost has a jokey/wordplay sound to me. But I do a lot of reading and I work in a library, so I might not be representative. I wonder if for most people, the association would just make the name sound right, without them knowing why it seemed to go together so well.

Whether it matters is another topic, and depends on things like whether you think the middle name will be used much, and whether you’d be pleased or annoyed by people mentioning the association to you / thinking you did it on purpose / thinking you did it accidentally. Do you think you’d want to call her “Willa Katherine,” or do you think you’d always call her Willa and the Katherine part would disappear between the birth announcement and high school graduation?

If it were me, I would want to find another option–but with regret, because Willa is a little tricky to find a middle name for, and Katherine is such a lovely fit with it.

Willa Bethany
Willa Caroline
Willa Celeste
Willa Claire
Willa Constance
Willa Cordelia
Willa Eleanor
Willa Florence
Willa Frances
Willa Genevieve
Willa Harriet
Willa Margaret
Willa Noelle
Willa Rosalie
Willa Violet

 

 

 

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

I wanted to give you a name update on the Willa Katherine/Cather situation – I had a big healthy baby boy! Ha! It was extra exciting because a doctor had referred to the baby as “her” during an ultrasound (after explicitly saying she would use the male pronoun) then apologized, all flustered. So I was certain it was a girl, and the eventual surprise was even more exciting since I have an older daughter. I contacted the doctor afterwards thinking I had read too much into her reaction and she confirmed, no, she got it wrong and thought he WAS a girl! So lots of surprises all around. Oh, and his name is Benjamin James, and he goes by Bennie :).

Thanks for including my email on the blog!

Emily

Baby Boy Pain, Brother to Aaron and Charles; What Do You Do When a Surname Has a Meaning, Especially a Negative Meaning?

[My last day of work was one week ago yesterday, when we were thinking “I wonder if the library might even CLOSE because of this!” Reshelving library books is not a job I can do from home, so I have some time on my hands. Those of you in a similar boat, I suggest we use some of that time to name some sweet little babies.]

 

Dear Swistle,

Our surname is pronounced like “pain” though it is spelled differently. This has made choosing a name difficult! I’m wondering how you navigate situations where the surname has meaning and in our case, not a pleasant meaning?!

We are expecting a boy early summer to join two boy siblings. We’ve used up our list of boy names: Aaron and Charles (nn Charlie) and are in need of help with this third one (and likely final).

An example of the issue we’re running into is that some names simply are off the table because of their meaning: Miles, Grant, Will (if went by that nn for William), and others because of combo / initials in general: Peter (and anything starting with a P or T).

I tend to fret perhaps more than warranted about this issue. For example, after naming Charlie I realized someone could make the connection that a Charlie horse causes pain which could be a source of teasing. Friends tell me that is far-fetched. My husband said he has heard every variation of teasing with the surname growing up and it doesn’t matter what the first name is-they will be teased. He said he was called a pain, painful, even window pane??

We intentionally named our boys with multi-syllable names that likely wouldn’t be shortened to single syllable nick names with a softer initial sound also to lessen the severity of the sound of our surname which is compounded by the severity of its meaning.

Are there other / different things we should keep in mind?

In terms of names to consider, our list is painfully short (pun intended):). While it’s super popular now, I love James but it does have a different ring than a multi-syllable name and almost rhymes (my husband is against it). Other favorites of mine include Henry, Harry (has the issue with both Harry and “Pain” having meaning and could be a huge source of teasing!), and my husband’s hands-down favorite, Benjamin (over time would probably be shortened to Ben which then is one-syllable and has a similar ending as the surname, and Ben also meshes weirdly with the beginning of our surname, in my opinion).

I’m also wanting to be sensitive to sibling names not sounding too similar, so an -ie or -y ending might be off limits because of Charlie?

I, especially, like classic names, and dislike super trendy names, even if classic. For example, Theodore, Sebastian, etc are off the table as there are a bunch of them where we live. My husband likes classic names that are a little more common than I do, but we both want names that could generally be spelled by someone over the phone (though this is an interesting criteria now as so many variations in spelling have become popular that even my husband’s common name of Brian has been misspelled more often than not, recently).

Other names we are potentially considering include Joseph (though it’s my brother’s name and probably would be shortened over time to Joe), Wesley (though kinda popular, rhymes with Charlie, and may be shortened over time to Wes which in addition to being monosyllabic, bleeds weirdly into the surname, in my opinion), Roland (issue with ending of D sound going into P of surname, and again could sound like “rolling pain” which wouldn’t be good!!).

If we were having a girl, names we’d consider include Lydia, Valentine, Josephine, Caroline, Louise, Meredith.

We plead for help with this “painful” issue!!

Many thanks,
Michelle

 

Let us start with a suggestion that will not work in this particular situation—but we do these posts in part to help others in similar situations. The suggestion is this: use the other parent’s surname. The infrequent usage of that option is as amazing to me as that we have had 45 male presidents and male vice-presidents in a row. I went to school with a girl whose surname was Dick, and a boy whose surname was Butt. We don’t have to live this way when we have another equally valid surname to use.

Well. In cases where the family surname has already been chosen and it is a surname with a negative meaning, I think you are exactly on the right track: carefully test out first names and their nicknames/initials, and try to pick the least teasable options. Your husband is certainly right that the surname will result in a certain level of teasing no matter what, but he’s wrong that therefore it doesn’t matter what the first name is: there’s no need to add MORE teasing to the situation. But I also agree with your friends that Charlie to charlie horse to charlie horses causing pain is too big of a stretch to worry about. It’s hard to imagine the taunt: “Ha ha, I have a CHARLIE HORSE! Which hurts—or, as you might say, CAUSES PAIN! Nyah nyah, Charlie (Horse Causes) Pain!” No self-respecting bully would try to make that fly.

I think Henry would be great. Henry Pain sounds excellent and doesn’t increase the tease factor; Aaron, Charlie, and Henry is a great set of brothers. Having a similar-sounding ending to Charlie seems like a non-issue. I say do it and be done with it!

I think Benjamin Pain is good too, and that Aaron, Charlie, and Ben makes a great set of siblings (except it makes me want to put them in ABC order). I agree with you that Ben Pain is not ideal, but I don’t think it’s at a dealbreaking level: it’s just slightly odd, and with nicknames I feel like the flow doesn’t matter so much.

I like Joseph, too, and I think Joe Pain sounds kind of cool.

“Rolling pain” is not a thing, and Roland/rolling sound pretty different anyway, so I don’t think that’s an issue with Roland. (I wondered if you might instead be thinking of the similarity to rolling pin, but I’d say Roland Pain doesn’t sound enough like rolling pin for that to be an issue either—even if rolling pins were a negative thing.) I do have a little bit of trouble going from the -d to the P-, but not enough trouble to rule the name out. I would pretty quickly just get used to putting a tiny pause in there: Roland.Pain.

I really think Henry is the answer, but let’s see if we can find some more candidates to consider.

Elliot Pain; Aaron, Charlie, and Elliot
Ethan Pain; Aaron, Charlie, and Ethan
George Pain; Aaron, Charlie, and George
Jared Pain; Aaron, Charlie, and Jared
Joshua Pain, Josh Pain; Aaron, Charles, and Joshua; Aaron, Charlie, and Josh
Luke Pain; Aaron, Charlie, and Luke
Nathan Pain, Nate Pain; Aaron, Charles, and Nathan; Aaron, Charlie, and Nate
Nicholas Pain, Nick Pain; Aaron, Charles, and Nicholas; Aaron, Charlie, and Nick
Nolan Pain; Aaron, Charlie, and Nolan
Seth Pain; Aaron, Charlie, and Seth
Thomas Pain, Tom Pain; Aaron, Charles, and Thomas; Aaron, Charlie, and Tom (starts with T.)

(HENRY.)

Baby Twin Boys Sexhour, Brothers to Aliyah

[The kids have started online school, and I need things to do while they’re doing that. Let’s name some babies.]

My wife and I are expecting twin boys at the end of March. We have a difficult last name (sounds like sex-hour). We often find we like a name (Abel, as an example), only to find it DOES not work with this difficult last name! You can have fun finding awful combinations that’s for sure! We’ve had many a laugh….

Both of our names begin with “A” (Annie and Allison) and our older daughter’s name also starts with “A” (Aliyah). We would like to continue in the “A” name tradition. It would be nice to have 3 names that all begin with a different “a” sound (long a, short a, schwa), so we are looking for a short a name.

We have already chosen one name: Avery. And, we know both middle names– John and Lee. We especially like the name Alden, but a cousin named her young son that already so we feel we can’t also use it.

To complicate matters, I have been a teacher for almost 15 years and try really hard not to name my kids the same name as any of my former students. That may not be possible, but perhaps!!

Names we have considered and rejected for various reasons:
* Abel
* Aiden (in all forms)
* Alwyn
* Ashton, Asher and all the Ash names
* Armani
* Adrien
* Adler
* Arley

Names we are considering:
* August
* Afton
* Alton

We just haven’t seemed to find the name that “feels right” and works with “sex-hour.”

If we were having another girl, we would have named her Avery as well! Gender neutral names are important to us, but not a requirement.

Thanks for your help!

Alyson and Annie

 

Here is the difficulty with this question: It’s not hard to go through the entire A section of several baby name books, so if I go through the entire A section of several baby name books, I will not be discovering anything you haven’t already looked at a hundred times. In some situations, I think, “Well, but it can help to hear a name differently if someone else suggests/supports it!,” and I think that’s often true, but it sounds like you have been very thorough.

I suspect the trouble you’re running into here is that you have too many preferences to ALSO want the name to “feel right.” That is, if you were working on a puzzle that required you to find a name starting with short-A, that went with Aliyah and Avery, that worked with the middle names John/Lee, that didn’t duplicate the name of a student or relative, and that went well with your surname—you probably could find some candidates. But if it has to be all those things AND you have to love it and it has to click into place for you—then such a name might literally not exist, so none of us will be able to find it.

This means stepping back in the decision process to see if any of the preferences can be removed. Which are the preferences that are most often tripping you up? Like, when you find a name that makes your heart pound, what are the most common reasons it doesn’t go on the list? Doesn’t start with A? Wrong sound of A? Doesn’t work with the middle names? Duplicates a student’s/relative’s/friend’s name? Are there any preferences you’d be willing to rethink?

For example, I know you want everyone’s name to start with A. How badly do you want that? Do you want it enough that you would choose an A-name you’re not enthusiastic about over a non-A-name you love? This would be the perfect moment to break with A names, if you’re willing to reconsider the name Avery.

I know you want short-A. How badly do you want that? Do you want it enough that you’d sacrifice a name you like better?

These are questions I can ask as if the answer would be “No!”—but I don’t think the answer will necessarily be no: there are many preferences that lead parents to choose a less-liked name over a more-liked name. But I think it helps if the parents know that trade-off may need to happen. Otherwise they can go around in circles, trying to make it so their favorite names fit the preferences, or so that the preferences result in most-loved names. Sometimes the preferences and the most-liked names are incompatible.

If you keep your preferences, then I think you have already narrowed down the list and the choice is now among August, Afton, and Alton. That is a happy little list! Those are all great names. And I think there can come some relief at that stage of the process: I remember trying to choose one of my son’s names, and thinking, “All of these are good options. I don’t have to FALL IN LOVE, I just have to choose one of these nice names.” It happens to many parents and may have happened to you with Aliyah’s name: the name BECOMES the child, and it can be hard to remember having had any doubts about the name or having considered any other names. Even a name that doesn’t feel like it has the shining support of an angelic chorus can feel very different when it is on the beloved baby.

I considered not giving an opinion on which of the three finalists was my own favorite, since at this point I think the best strategy may be for you two to think to yourselves, “Okay, if it is going to be one of these three, which one is it?”—without a bunch of confusing input from others. But “a bunch of confusing input from others” is the very reason for this site! So after saying that I think all three names are good solid choices and any of them seem great to me, I will say that of those three names, my definite favorite is Alton. I love it. When I picture it on a little newborn, I get damp eyes. Little Alton! I want to squeeze him! Avery and Alton! I like Avery John and Alton Lee, to avoid the Elton John sound and to distribute the unisex names more evenly.

I also love August, but when we are dealing with a tricky surname that includes an element of time, it seems like adding a month-name emphasizes the time element. And Afton I think is getting unfairly marked down only because I’ve never met an Afton and the name isn’t familiar to me yet; that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t love it within five seconds of meeting a baby with that name. But the unfamiliarity combines with the difficult surname to make something I have to spend extra mental energy figuring out what I’m hearing (half ton sex hour? after sex hour?), which is a downside with a difficult surname.

 

 

 

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

We really appreciated all the help we received from you and everyone who responded to our post! We welcomed our twin boys on their Mama’s birthday, 3/27/2020 at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. Avery John and Allston Lee both weighed exactly 6 lbs to the ounce at birth! They are happy, healthy, and well loved by their big sister! We had one of those “aha” that is the name we like moments when Allston came to us. We looked up the meanings of the two names and they are connected. Avery means “elf king,” and Allston means, “elf stone.” It seemed like the names were meant to go together!

All the best!

Alyson and Annie