Hi Swistle!

This is baby girl # 3 and we don’t plan on having more children. Our last name is pronounced In-Stiss but starts with an E and ends in the spelling “ice.” Our daughters are Tilly (Laura Tilson) and Lulu (Louisa Susan)- all of those names being family names, tributes to grandparents and parents.

I would like this baby to be named in a way that honors my grandmother, whose name was Frances Bernice, but who always went by “Bea.” My name is also Frances but I go by Franny.

Our first choice became Beatrice because I like it more than Bernice and the nickname “Bea” can honor my grandmother. Then we realized that with our last name this may not work: “Bee-ah -triss In- stiss” – both names end in the same sound and also both share the same last letters “ice.”
Now we feel we cannot use the name- do you agree?
My husband also thinks that “Bea Instiss” just doesn’t roll off the tongue/ sound right.

Our new favorite choice became Ruth- Ruth Bernice or Ruth Frances- nickname Ruthie.
This name popped up as one we both have always liked and we feel it fits in well with our other daughters’ names. It is a (distant) family name and I worry it doesn’t hold as much “meaning” as the other names we’ve used. Also I’m sad to walk away from using the name Bea. I do love the name Ruthie though and have for some time.
I consider the name Ruth a classic/ biblical name but I’m wondering if it will become “trendy” this year with many families honoring Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

Final option that I’m still toying with- I have always loved the name Blaire for a girl-
Blaire Frances nicknamed Bea or Frances Blaire nicknamed Bea. My husband does not feel that Bea is a nickname for Blaire like it is for Beatrice or Bernice. I worry that Blaire doesn’t fall into the same category as our other daughters’ names (traditional yet whimsical? I don’t know how to categorize them!)

Can you provide any insight into what name would be best for this new addition?
We just continue to go in circles!

Other family names we’ve considered: Tucker, Mary nicknamed Mae or Minnie, Frances with another nickname (could Annie, Nan or Nancy be a nickname for Frances?)

Other names we like: Martha, Clementine, Poppy, Daisy

Thanks to you and your readers for any help you can give us in naming this special girl! I promise I will give an update!

Franny

I started by trying to figure out a way to make Bea work for Blair (“Well, it’s like B., which would be a perfectly legitimate nickname for any name starting with B…”), but then started feeling like “Bea, from B., from Blair, for Frances-Bernice-called-Bea” was getting too many steps away from the honor name.

But I don’t think of Bea as a nickname for Bernice, either. DID it come from that, in your grandmother’s case? It seems like so many women of that generation had names like “Eleanor Ann, called Peggy” or “Margaret Mildred, called Dolly.” And I do think it’s possible to just DO that: Frances Blair, called Bea; or Ruth Bernice, called Bea. But it also makes me feel a little tired.

Wait. Wait wait. Actually, I don’t feel tired when I consider the option of naming her Frances Bernice, called Bea. Then it becomes FULLY naming her after your grandmother: both of your grandmother’s actual names, plus her nickname. AND, this then clicks into a naming practice more familiar to us with male names: your daughter would have the same first name as you, so it would be familiar/expected for her to have a different nickname to avoid confusion.

So that is my STRONG first choice: Frances Bernice, called Bea. Your grandmother’s entire name/nickname, and also your first name. An absolute total package of an honor name. I don’t really want to consider anything else.

But I don’t think you have to rule out Beatrice Instiss, if you prefer that option. I think it’s probably a little tricky to say, and Not Quite Ideal in its combination of sounds—but something I’ve noticed over the years is how VERY MANY names are Not Quite Ideal. If you look at the credits of a movie or TV show, or leaf through a yearbook, there are SO MANY names that, if they came up on this blog, we might all agree Don’t Quite Work—and yet! there they are! working!

This morning I was listening to NPR, and once again noticed Franco Ordoñez carefully saying his name. If his parents had come to us, I think quite a few of us would have recommended avoiding putting all those O’s together—but there he is, saying that name on the air, and if anything it’s catchy. Similarly, I might have advised against the name Windsor Johnston, explaining that I found the whole thing difficult to say with all those sturdy consonants—and yet, after hearing Windsor Johnston say her name again and again over the years, and saying it myself, I see how it gets easier with practice and familiarity.

I don’t worry about how a nickname sounds with a surname, as long as it doesn’t result in something rude or silly (the classic example is Ben Dover). Bea Instiss is fine, and would not likely be said very often anyway, and will sound normal once it’s familiar. And “Tilly, Lulu, and Bea” is a pretty unbeatable set of sibling nicknames.

I also love Ruth. I like Ruth Frances best, to honor you and your grandmother. I don’t think it would be possible for that name to feel trendy, even if it became much more popular. And if it DOES have a surge of popularity because of RBG, I think that would be touching and delightful, and that it might feel lovely to have your daughter one of that group. (I am getting a little choked up thinking about this.)

Still: my top favorite by far is Frances Bernice, called Bea. If it were my job to assign names to babies, that is the name I would assign to this one, and I would do it with decisive confidence.

Name update:

Dear Swistle,
I’m in disbelief that it’s taken me 3 months to write, probably the fastest 3 months of my life! Your response was just perfect and most of all made me excited to name our daughter again, it felt like we couldn’t go wrong. After your response I was almost 100% sold on Frances Bernice nickname Bea. However I just kept coming back to the fact that I don’t love the name Frances (even though it’s my own!) or Bernice.

I kept thinking about names that “don’t quite work” working. It is genius! I was overthinking the whole thing.
I love the name Beatrice and after speaking with my mom I felt like my grandmother would be so honored by a baby Bea regardless of her full name.

Your “not quite ideal” and “don’t quite work” theory also influenced us in another way. I’ve always felt like we needed to honor my mother in law who is such a great grandmother but both her first and middle name always “didn’t quite work” so were dismissed early in the naming process. Suddenly I was like I don’t care I want her to feel honored! When we got to the hospital I said to my husband “well this doesn’t “sound” right to me at all but I suddenly want to give the baby your mom’s middle name.” He was like that is so weird I was just thinking the same thing!

So our perfect miracle girl got her perfect imperfect name!

Beatrice Lynn “Bea”

Thank you and your readers for all your help!

Franny

Hello,

We can’t decide on a boy name to save our lives. My husband and I are expecting our second child in the next few weeks. This is our second child awe are waiting until delivery to know if he/she is a boy/girl. A friend had your help with naming their son a few years ago and she suggested we write you.

We have narrowed down our list (however still open to others) for each sex. Our last name is Schoenfeld pronounced “Show-in-feld”. Our first sons name is William Edward “Teddy” and we have a few names we can’t/not going to use due to neices/nephews already have those names. This include: Thomas (Tommy), James, Stephen and Andrew

As far a girls names we have come up with we have narrowed down to
Margaret Frances and call her “Francie”
Katherine Frances and call her “Kit”

We are struggling to find a boy name we love, can agree on and then figuring out a dilemma with neighbors and their names.

Henry is a family name but I prefer not to call him Henry. I am happy to use in name baby’s name though. My husband’s grandfather was Fredrick “Fred” and we both are open to using as a nickname.

Boy names:
Henry “Wells” Schoenfeld
Henry Whitaker “Whit” *favorite
Henry Fredrick “Fritz”
Sullivan Henry
Henry Tate and he would go by Tate -* Favorite

The problem with two of our boy names is that our next door neighbors have 5 kids and two of them are Tate (2.5 yrs) and Whit (7 yrs). We are friendly with them but not super close. Our children play together more than we socialize with parents Is it weird to name the baby one of the kids next door names?

Any insight would be helpful! Thank so much!!

Maggie

Do you want our input on the girl names, too, or is this a situation of “We’re all set, and at this point we’ll decide when we see her?” I’m half hoping it’s the latter, because I don’t know if I can decide between those two. Margaret is on my own list, so normally that would be my vote, but I’m not sure I can resist the appeal of Kit. Teddy and Kit! Well, but I also love Francie. Teddy and Francie! I guess in the end I would vote Margaret Frances, but it’s such a close race.

Now for boy names. If Henry Tate and Henry Whitaker are your favorites, I don’t think it’s weird that he’d share a name with the neighbor kid, especially with such an age gap (i.e., they won’t be in the same grade at school, even if these neighbors stay neighbors long-term). If I were you I would lean toward Henry Whitaker, first just because I personally prefer it, second because then he could go by Whitaker or Henry while playing with the neighbor kids, but also because it’s the larger age gap. If either Whitaker or Tate is a family name, that would be an additional point in its favor, especially since it gives you something to say to the neighbors. (If not, I would practice a light “Oh—yes, we’ve had it on our list for years! And of course your Whit/Tate just made us love it even more!”)

I also like Henry Frederick a lot. I hesitate in case he might want to go by Fred/Freddy, which rhymes with your first son’s nickname—but I don’t think rhyming nicknames is a giant issue, especially since both of them have so many other options here if they want to avoid that.

And I think Sullivan Henry is great (though I think Henry is better with the brother name and potential sister names), and Henry Wells is great, and I can see why you’re having such a hard time deciding, but I don’t think you can go wrong here. My own vote would be either Henry Whitaker called Whit or Henry Wells called Wells, with the final decision to be made depending on how much you want to avoid the neighbor situation.

Name update:

Hello!
Thanks so much for your help!
We welcomed Henry “Wells” Schoenfeld into our family on April 13th!
We used my husbands family name Henry as his first name however we are calling him Wells or as Big Brother Teddy calls him “Wellsy”.
Thanks again!
Maggie

Dear Swistle,

We are having our second baby girl in late August. Our first daughter is named Holly Clare Pederssen (middle + surname spelled differently)

We are having the classic dilemma of having used our favorite name for our first child and are bummed that we haven’t had the same clarity for this child as we did for the first. I’ve been reading your blog for years, and am a self-proclaimed name nerd. LOVE baby names.

Before we even conceived we said THE name for a 2nd baby girl would be Mabel Marais. It was done, that was that. Mabel is BOTH of our maternal great grandmothers’ names. Marais is after a city which we are very fond of, plus we think it’s beautiful with almost any first name we can come up with. Marais is 99.9% set in stone as the middle.

My issue is feeling like there are other options out there. Mabel is beautiful and meaningful to us, but I told my husband it just sounds “sticky” in my mouth. I know you know what I mean. Are there any similar names you can recommend that would be fresh to our eyes and ears?

Some of our (ok my) guidelines have been:
-No name ending with Y or IE as I don’t want to repeat the same sound our first daughter has
-No name ending in A (this guideline I’m not as “strict” on) I’d love it to end in really anything other than Y, IE, A, AH
-I don’t like names that can be shortened or nicknamed

I personally believe that our 2nd daughter’s name has the opportunity to make Holly sound certain way when they go together. It could create a more twirly, girly set of sisters (think: Holly and Mirabel) which I’m not so sure I like. For some reason I’m leaning toward a more androgynous sounding name, BUT wanting it to flow with Holly. I am not a fan of sibling sets that don’t make any sense together. And I’m always cognizant of the fact that it would be “Holly and _____,” but someday it could be “Holly, _____, and _____” if we have a third child.

Here are some names that have been floating around our house:
-Payton Marais (initials PMP, ehh?)
-Blair Marais
… Ok that’s really it.

We like both of those but are looking for more to test out with Holly.

For a boy I was loving the name Baker. (NOT after the football player) Others we loved were Hayes, Gavin + Corbin. We were convinced it was a boy until we found out. So when we learned she is a girl, we kind of went back to our baby girl name drawing board, per se.

Am I being annoying and should just go with the name we were so confident with before? Is there another name out there that is “the one?”

Thank you in advance for your wisdom and advice, Swistle and commenters!

I think it’s normal to re-think even a Very Decided name once an actual baby is on the way, and I also think it’s fun: why give up the thrill of the naming process, just because you may already have the right name? It’s especially pleasant, I think, to be able to think about it as much as you want, always knowing that if you get tired of the process, or stressed by it, you can go right back to the plan of Mabel Marais. And if it’s just cold feet, playing around with other names can sometimes help with that.

I wonder if you would like May instead of Mabel. May Pederssen; Holly and May. Or, and this would be my own preference, you could name her Mabel to get the family honor name, but call her May for as long as Mabel feels odd in your mouth. (I do know what you mean, and also my GUESS is that effect would fade with time/use.)

Payton strikes me as a mismatch with Holly. Holly is a name that was moderately common in my generation, while Payton was virtually non-existent; that’s probably part of it. But also: Holly is a nature name currently used only for girls in the U.S., while Payton is a modern surname name with unisex usage (though leaning more toward girls). It immediately hits my ear in this context as a brother name.

I can better imagine a Holly and a Blair. Even though Blair wasn’t much more common than Payton in my age group, there was a Blair on the TV show The Facts of Life, so it feels like it’s from a similar era. (I feel similarly about Drew and Reese: I didn’t go to school with any girls who had those names, but Reese Witherspoon and Drew Barrymore were on screen and made those names feel familiar and from the right time period.) It’s a little bit of a surprising combination, but not startling, and I think a third name could make a very nice happy assortment later on.

Holly and Mabel is a surprising combination to me, though SIGNIFICANTLY less so when I hear that Mabel is a family name on both sides. Holly peaked in the 1970s and 1980s, but I don’t remember Mabel coming to my attention as anything but an Old Lady Name until they used it for the baby on the TV show Mad About You in the late 1990s (and it was a startling choice on the show); more recently, it was the name of a quirky character on the TV show Gravity Falls. (Today’s edition of Swistle is apparently TV-themed.) The name Mabel had dropped out of the Top 1000 completely in 1964, and appeared again as a sort of alternative-vintage-revival choice starting in 2013, along with names such as Matilda. It’s currently almost exactly as popular as Holly (according to the Social Security Administration, in 2019 Holly was #479 and Mabel was #440)—but headed in opposite directions: Holly gradually dropping more and more out of usage while Mabel gradually gains. In another couple of decades, the generation gap may become more apparent—like siblings named Susan and Shannon, or Jessica and Ava.

It kind of sounds like I’m trying to talk you out of Mabel, and I’m not (I love the name AND I love a double family honor name); this is merely the downside of being CHATTY about baby names. I start looking into it, and typing what I find, and before I know it I’m talking about not-really-equivalent pairs of names (Susan, Shannon, Jessica, and Ava were/are all much too common to compare to Holly and Mabel, but they came to mind as representative examples of their eras). Holly, while a peer name for me, is not the same as other peer names such as Michelle and Shannon, nor the same as peer names such as Elizabeth and Sarah: while not a timeless name like Elizabeth/Sarah, it feels much more usable than the quite-tied-to-their-era Michelle/Shannon. Michelle and Shannon need to wait their turn to come back into style, and Elizabeth and Sarah are always in style, but Holly feels more like, say, Jillian and Veronica: just because they were used back then doesn’t mean they’re not still working great now.

Holly has a further advantage because it’s a nature name. Nature-type names come in and out of style like any others (Heather and Holly and Amber back then, Violet and Hazel and Ruby WAY back then and also now), but they have a certain permanence because of being Actual Things (and usually Actual Pretty Things). It also potentially gives us a nice way to tie sibling names together. Perhaps you don’t want to catch yourself humming “The holly and the ivy / When they are both full grown” day and night (and that’s a bit of a competitive song for siblings anyway), but Holly and Hazel, or Holly and Ruby, or Holly and Violet, have a pleasant little tie-in without being too cute (though it would be a good idea to think ahead to a possible third girl and whether you might feel pressured to go with another nature name).

So in short, I think those are the areas I’d be starting with if I were you: the Jillian and Veronica names (contemporaries of Holly that still sound great), and the Hazel and Ruby names (contemporary/vintage choices that fit thematically—especially if the theme is more subtle, as with a name such as Laurel). Well, and then I’d move on to “any other names that seemed like they’d work with Holly,” so this list is a bit of a jumble.

(Also, you will notice I ignored for the time being the preferences for avoiding names ending in -y/-ie/-a and names that could be nicknamed. This is partly in case you are moved to reconsider those preferences in the face of difficulty, and partly to make the list more widely usable by others in a similar naming situation.)

Abigail/Abby
Anna/Annie
Avril
Bethany
Bridget
Brynn
Claudia
Cleo
Darcy
Emily
Ginny
Hazel
Hope
Jill
Jillian
Jocelyn/Joss
Joelle
Joy
Laine
Laura
Laurel
Lynn
Mallory
Maren
Melinda
Melody
Morgan
Paige
Phoebe
Robin
Ruby
Sadie
Shelby
Susanna
Tess
Veronica
Violet

The group is going to differ on some of those, of course: one person’s “This name is still beautifully usable!” is another person’s “Wow, that is such a MOM NAME!,” is another person’s “I didn’t even hear that name for the first time until after high school!” It depends a lot on our own personal experiences with the names, and where we grew up, and how old we are, as well as our impressions of the name Holly (Holly Golightly is a very different impression than Holly Hobbie, which in turn is a very different impression than the Hollys I went to school with, who are now mothers of half-/nearly-/fully-grown kids).

But don’t let your eye skip past some of those just because they’re familiar. Lynn, for example: I recently encountered a small child named Lynn and was BLOWN AWAY by it. I hadn’t Truly Seen the name Lynn for DECADES: my eye just went right past it as the filler middle name of maybe a third of the women I know. But as a first name, and NOW! It’s trim and unexpected, familiar yet extremely underused, feminine yet not a bit frilly. Lynn! Lynn!

Or Robin. I went to school with more than one Robin, but all I have to do is say the name a few times to bring back the bouncy fresh birdlike sound.

Or Bridget. I only know one Bridget my age, and her name is so much fun for me to say, I have to be careful not to overdo it.

Name update:

Hello Swistle,

This past March, the same evening after I sent you my email request for naming help, we found the name Brynn and it was almost like it had a shining halo above it, saying, “this is her name.”

The following day, I read your response on your blog and it felt like fate that you had included it in your list of names to go with Holly.

Our (ten pound !!!!) Brynn Marais was born last week and we are so happy with our naming decision. Thank you for your input, and we also very much appreciated reading the perspective of fellow name-nerd commenters – you guys are my people!

Photos attached of the sisters Holly Clare and Brynn Marais❤️

Hi Swistle,

I’ve been an avid reader of your blog for years and am so excited to finally be submitting my own question. You and your readers always have great and decisive opinions that seem to make the naming process easier, and I’m hoping you can help with my dilemma.

I’m pregnant with my third baby, a girl, due in early May. Our last name sounds like Paddle. With all that’s going on now, (work, baby preparations, the virus, having two young children at home all the time,) picking a name for this baby has not been a top priority, until now.

I have two daughters: Theodosia Marie (Teddy) and Philippa Jean (Pip or Pippa). I love the class and sophistication of both their names, and the adorable nickname that comes with them. They are not made up by any means, just not in the top one thousand, meaning I’ve never met anyone with their names. (Although we run into a boy Teddy every once in a while).

The name category they fit into is kind of coincidental, I didn’t intend for this specific type of classical name group, but since we already have it going, I figure I’ll just continue it.

We have a kind of idea of what we like, and it’s between three names, (with the middle name being Rose):

Wilhelmina- seems to compliment the vibe of Teddy and Pippa’s names, and Willa/Willie is a darling nickname. I just seem to associate the name with Kaiser Wilhelm and it also feels really hard to spell. This is kind of our compromise name.

Henrietta- I feel like there’s a great nickname staring me in the face every time I look at this name, but nothing has ‘clicked’ yet (I don’t like Henry or Harry, is Hattie an option?). I really like this name, but I’m not sure this is the ‘one’. (Although this is my husbands favorite)

Augusta- I think this goes with the girls’ names, and I can’t resist the nickname. Teddy, Pippa and Auggie! I really like this, but my husband does not seem completely sold.

Other possibilities we considered are
Tabitha (Tabby) – too similar to Theodosia
Georgina (Georgie or Gina) – couldn’t agree on a nickname, Georgie vs. Gina
Dorothea (Dot) – too close to Theodosia
Eugenia (Genie) – Not a fan on the nickname
Winifred (Winnie) – LOVE Winnie, but freddy rhymes with Teddy
Rosamund (Rosie) – Rosie is too common
Elspeth (Elsie) – my girls think ‘Elsa’ when they hear Elsie

If I were to rank the top three:
Augusta
Wilhelmina
Henrietta

His rankings:
Henrietta
Wilhelmina
Augusta

Of the extra ones, I like Elspeth and Dorothea the most, but neither will probably work. He favors Eugenia and Winifred.

I know Wilhelmina is a good compromise, but I don’t want to settle for a name we’re both meh on when we love Theodosia and Philippa so much!

Any advice Swistle on how to pick a name we both love for our little girl?

Thanks for your consideration!

I love the name Wilhelmina, though I have the Dutch spelling Willemina on my list; does that spelling make it any easier and/or less Kaiser-Wilhelmy for you? I feel like it’s the -hel- that really takes it over the edge, difficulty-wise. And in addition to the nickname Willa, I like the nickname Mina.

I also love Augusta, though I would use the nickname Gus/Gussie; I wonder if your husband would like that any better?

And I love Henrietta. Hattie is definitely a nickname option, as is Hennie, as is Hettie, as is Etta/Ettie, as is Ree/Ria.

So I am not much help: I love all three names. As you say, Wilhelmina seems like the obvious compromise name; is it definitely accurate to say you’re both “meh” on it? If so, then you each have the other person’s first-choice name as a “worse than meh” name, which I’m afraid means you will need to start over with a new list.

I wonder if you would like another of my favorites: Millicent. Not in the Top 1000, but familiar and easy to spell. Adorable nickname Milly/Millie. Theodosia, Philippa, and Millicent; Teddy, Pippa, and Millie.

I also love Minerva: also not in the Top 1000, yet familiar and easy to spell. (Sometimes people say “It makes me think of Minerva McGonagall!,” and I think, “…Yes? Oh good! She’s a wonderful character!”) Theodosia, Philippa, and Minerva; Teddy, Pippa, and Minnie.

Florence has been catching my eye recently. Theodosia, Philippa, and Florence; Teddy, Pippa, and Flora.

Oh! Oh! CORDELIA. Theodosia, Philippa, and Cordelia; Teddy, Pippa, and Delia.

Or Sophronia, a name made beloved to many of us because of Five Little Peppers. Theodosia, Philippa, and Sophronia; Teddy, Pippa, and Phronsie.

Or Persephone. Theodosia, Philippa, and Persephone; Teddy, Pippa, and Percy/Persie.

Magdalena. Theodosia, Philippa, and Magdalena; Teddy, Pippa, and Maggie/Dolly/Lena.

Amaryllis. Theodosia, Philippa, and Amaryllis; Teddy, Pippa, and Rilla/Lissa.

Isadora. Theodosia, Philippa, and Isadora; Teddy, Pippa, and Izzy/Dorrie/Sadie.

I’d bring Winifred back into the running: yes, Freddie rhymes with Teddy, but you love Winnie; and if she wants to go by Fred/Freddie later on, she can decide for herself if it bothers her that it rhymes with her sister’s nickname or if she thinks that’s fun—and by then perhaps Theodosia will be going by Theo or Thea or Theodosia, so it won’t even be an issue. I wouldn’t give two siblings given names that rhymed, but nicknames are a different matter and feel like far less of an issue.

Rosamund may also warrant another shot. I’d be interested to know if others find the nickname Rosie to be too common. It’s virtually unheard of where I live (though Rose is extremely popular as a middle name), but such things vary so much by area. If you already know a couple little Rosies, that may indeed rule it out.

Name update:

Hi Swistle!

Our girl was born on April 24th and she is already consuming the attention of her sisters Teddy and Pippa. We named her Wilhelmina Rose, and for now she goes by Willie. (The girls also call her Mini sometimes because of how small she is :)) After her birth, we realized how much we did love Wilhelmina, and it really is the perfect name for our girlie. Runner up names were Georgina (Gigi), Winifered (Winnie) and Augusta (Auggie, Gussie). I also love Cordelia (Delia), but the husband was not too keen. :) Thank you so much to Swistle and commenters for your help. We now have a Teddy, a Pippa and a Willie, a Theodosia, a Philippa and a Wilhelmina, and we couldn’t be happier.

Much thanks,
The ‘Paddles’

P.S. I included a pic of Willie you can share with your readers –

Hi Swistle,
Long-time reader excited to get your input!

We are expecting a baby boy shortly who will be joining sister N0a Vi0let and brother Levi J@mes. We have a strong preference for Hebrew names and a general preference for shorter names given that he will sport a double-barreled last name (similar to Burklee Stirring). I tend to like less common names that are still approachable – i.e. easy to read/pronounce correctly. My husband favors more mainstream names, but has been surprisingly open-minded this time around (third child perk?).

Our top contenders are Amos, Elon, and Shai.

I love Amos though my husband is having trouble seeing it as anything but a 18th century Puritan.

We both love the sound of Elon but really don’t want the association with Elon Musk – given how rare the name is and how unpredictable he is as a public personality, it feels like a big risk. We feel like the association wouldn’t be as strong with an alternative spelling of the name (Elan, Ilan, Ilon), but worry that it wouldn’t be pronounced the same way – we like the long vowel and emphasis on the first syllable. Also wondering if the pairing with Levi is tongue-twister-y?

Shai (pronounced shy) is a longtime favorite that’s always in the mix, but we have reservations about using it given a relative with the same name (a mix of superstition and not wanting it to seem like an honor name when it’s not).

Middle name will be a family honor name (TBD) and if this baby was a girl, top contenders would be Ruth (called Rue) and Adele.

Would love your thoughts on all three names as well as any other suggestions.

Thank you!

I reluctantly agree with your assessment of Elon. It is too bad when someone with a very distinctive name also rises to uncertain-future fame/celebrity.

And I also reluctantly agree with your assessment of Shai. I do think it would seem like an honor name. I also see pronunciation/spelling issues, not at a deal-breaking level but not insignificant either.

I am not familiar with Hebrew names, and so I am hoping commenters will be able to help with more suggestions!

Name update:

Hi Swistle,
We’ve got a two-for-one name update! We loved going through the comments and suggestions on your post and came to the same conclusion as you and many readers – Amos is a fabulous name and Elon and Shai just didn’t work for us. Amos Sylv@n was born in late July and his name’s meaning of “carried by God” had special significance given that he was born via a surrogate (pretty much the closest we get to angels on earth!).

The story’s twist came a couple weeks after I wrote to you when I discovered that against all odds, I too was pregnant. So last week, we welcomed another baby boy, less than three months apart from “big” brother Amos. We started with a blank slate for names having ruled Elon and Shai out – every single one we considered came from the comments section of your post! We landed on Samuel M@yer and are so excited to welcome him to the family.

Thank you to you and your thoughtful community of name sages!
Rachel

Hi Swistle,

Big time nerd fan of your blog here. I’ve been reading every post religiously for years, and when I initially found your website I went back and read all the archives too! The time has finally come for me to write in on my own…eek!

My husband and I are expecting our first child in May, a boy. Our biggest issue seems to be our differing tastes. We do have some overlap, but the overlap seems to be only with names we both sort of like. We both hate the names the other person loves. Meaning, we are left with just an “okay” feeling about all our top contenders.

Any advice for how to select from just okay names, that neither of us feel passionate about? Both of us are losing our enthusiasm which saddens me, as I’ve looked forward to this process my whole life. As you’ve advised before, a name really only needs to be a perfectly good name, but I’m struggling with it not being a name that makes my heart flutter.

I keep hoping our unicorn name will suddenly appear out of nowhere. This is seeming more and more doubtful, as we’ve been having name conversations for a while, and no unicorn so far. I’m hoping you and your readers might be a source of sparkly rainbow-y name magic that my research has alluded me?

Here are our considerations:
· Middle name will be Roberts after my maiden name. Last name is four syllables, T——i. I have proposed using Robert as the first and calling him Robin, but neither of us really like the name Robert, and I worry about bestowing equally “important” names on future children.
· We live in the US, I’m white, my husband is Indian. He feels it would be nice to have a name that is recognizable in India, although it’s not required. He doesn’t feel super tied to Indian culture, but we will be visiting family there often. It doesn’t even have to be spelled the Indian way, if there is a more common American spelling. I know international suggestions are not your forte, but like I said, this isn’t required, and this understanding will help frame our list below.
· My family is big on genealogy and has Welsh ancestry. My husband also likes the idea of a Welsh name (he thinks it would provide a convenient excuse of not giving an Indian name). We also both tend to think Welsh names are cool, but of course we like different ones. Also, obviously not required.
· We seem to like “R” names. I love Rhiannon (also my own middle name) for a girl. I don’t want to be a one-initial family, so I’m nervous about the future if we choose an R name this time.

Current compromise of *just okay* names:
Bodhi (Indian name)
Dean (Deen is an Indian name)
Harvey (we both like)
Kieran (Kiran is an Indian name)
Ruben (Rubin is an Indian name)
Vaughn (we both like)

His favorites:
Avery (I actually don’t hate it, but it’s SO common, I just can’t get on board)
Keanu (yes, after the actor, eye roll)
Niam
Rhodri (“Rod-dree” – he found this on a list of Welsh names and fell in love, I actually don’t hate it, but its just so rare, seems like it would always be mispronounced)
Rowan (this one feels too trendy to me)
Royce (too much car vibes)

My favorites:
Addison
Beau (hoping if we use Bodhi, we can use Bo as a nickname, he feels it’s a dog name)
Bryce
Heath
Loren
Rhys (swoon! But would definitely rule out Rhiannon. It seems like there should be some compromise here with Royce/Rhys but we are at a stalemate)
Rhett (he really hates this one)

Unicorn that unfortunately had to be ruled out:
Asa (the one name we both loved! But it’s a family name that has a baggage associated with it)

Indian-friendly names that have been ruled out:
Aric/Adric
Ash
Jay (Jai)
Neil (Neel)
Sean (Shaan)

Help! Our styles are all over the place and we are feeling lost. We need a wise guru to comb through this mess and provide some sage and stern advice. Perhaps some new suggestions, or some fun exercises/activities to help us find passion amongst our current choices?

Thank you!
ST

P.S. – I promise to email an update. I too feel so unfulfilled when posts go without!

To pick out a detail first: I don’t think if you use your maiden name for a first child that you need to find something equally Important for future children. It is extremely common for a firstborn to get an Important name (Jr./III/etc.; a family name handed down for generations; the best honor name) and extremely common for the reality of it to be that one name IS more important than the others, and that is why it was used first. Fortunately, from the children’s point of view, Important Names tend to be a little iffy: it isn’t as if the firstborn will definitely sashay around saying “I got GRANDPA’S name and YOU didn’t!!” From the children’s point of view, maybe the honor name is Better, or maybe getting one’s own name (or a more current name, or a more popular name, or a less popular name, or WHATEVER) is Better, or maybe they will not care much about any of it. But if you want to use a tip from a friend of mine: what they did was deliberately use The Most Important Honor Name for the secondborn, figuring that firstborns DO tend to sashay around talking about being oldest, so this way each kid got something. (As it turned out, though, this meant their firstborn is oldest AND, in the view of the children, has the Better name, so there’s really no way to predict/win this game.)

To select another detail: I too worried about feeling pressured to keep going with a certain initial, since our boy-name choice and girl-name choice started with the same letter and we wanted to use both names. I was relieved when our second child was also a boy, so there would definitely be a gap between the uses of that initial. (Though then I fretted that people would think we were having a third child “just to get a girl,” so this is another situation where apparently there was no winning.) Well, and then it turned out that by the time we DID have a girl, we’d changed our first-choice girl name anyway. A slightly risky way to solve/prevent this issue is to use a non-R name first; then after that, you can feel free to use as many R names as you want, without it making a pressurey theme. But I preferred the method of bracing myself ahead of time (unnecessarily, as it turned out) for saying “Oh! No, that was a coincidence: we just happened to like two names that started with the same initial.”

Okay, let’s finally look at the lists. I feel like you two have SO much potential for finding something. Avery and Addison are both unisex surname names. He has Royce, you have Bryce and Rhys. He has Rowan, you have Loren. And, as you’ve mentioned, you both seem to like R names. And you both sound very flexible and accommodating about the Indian/Welsh name issue. Really, you’re both VERY GOOD. It makes me hope we can find you something! …Or, that if we fail, you will nevertheless succeed without our help!

My first suggestion is Rory. It’s a unisex name similar in sound to Rhodri and Loren.

Next let’s browse some -ce/-se names:

Chase
Francis/Frank (this is because Frances came up in my search result)
Jace
Lance
Laurence (Loren + ce)
Pierce
Terrence/Terry
Vance
Vincent/Vince

I feel like at least half of those are not your style AT ALL, but I included them anyway: sometimes a not-right name can prompt someone to think of a better option.

Now let’s look at some surname names!

Alcott (perhaps not with a T___ surname)
Alden
Ames (a bit of the sound of Asa?)
Beckett (perhaps not with a T___ surname)
Brennan
Crosby
Darby
Darcy
Ellis
Emory
Harris
Hollis
Keane (I’d sell this as a little secret nod to Keanu)
Keaton (this one, too: “It’s sort of like Keanu, but less obvious!”)
Kellen
Lawson
Miller
Nolan
Perry
Reid
Wesley

Again, I am not thinking that these just SMACK of your style, but perhaps they will lead to other ideas.

I want to make a case for Avery. When a couple is having a lot of trouble choosing a name together and is beginning to lose their enthusiasm as you describe, I think it can be helpful to drop any preferences that are possible to drop. And I know you’ve seen me go off many times on the concept of popularity, and how it isn’t what it used to be. The name Avery is popular, and it’s even MORE common because it’s popular for girls as well as for boys. And it might be that in your own circle there are already too many Averys, and I can understand that. But if it’s more that it just feels too popular, I urge you to see if you can put that out of your mind, just as an experiment: if the name Avery were uncommon, would you start to feel enthusiasm for it? IF SO, see if you can nurture that little sprout of enthusiasm, see if it has the potential to grow. In situations like this one, I think we should nurture every tiny sprout.

A similar sprout to nurture: the Bodhi/Bo idea. (Although Bodhi with T______i feels like A Lot to me, so feel free to skip this if you don’t want to talk your husband into it.) Your husband thinks Bo is a dog name. Can he…get over that? Like, just DECIDE to get over it, the way he presumably would if someone said “I think of Royce as a dog name”? Maybe no, and that would be fine, just as it’s fine if you can’t get over the popularity of Avery! But if he could try it as an experiment: imagine if the name Bo did not seem like a dog name to him, had NEVER been used for ANY dog—would he start to feel enthusiasm for Bodhi/Bo? and would you, too? Give that sprout a little attention and see if it grows.

Rhodri is a sprout I’d like to nurture, but it feels like there are too many issues. The spelling. The pronunciation. The utter lack of usage in the United States. The possibility of it ruling out Rhiannon. The combination of it with the surname. The -i ending, which in the U.S. is used mostly for girl names. But it’s a nice sound, and I like that your husband chose it from Welsh names, and it sounds very much like the much more familiar name Audrey, so it OUGHT to work. We couldn’t respell it, could we? Rodrey? I don’t know; it feels like that detracts from its charm, and also would be mistaken for Rodney.

I’m interested in the name Niam. Does it rhyme with Liam? If so, I think that could be a very neat way to get a name that is quite different while also feeling quite familiar.

I would like to fish Adric out of the discard pile, though I would spell it Aidric. It feels like a crisper, fresher version of the more common Aidan and the somewhat dated Eric.

And I see a lot to love on the Just Okay list. Dean! Harvey! Kieran! Ruben! Vaughn! Just because SWISTLE loves some names doesn’t mean YOU TWO will love them—but on the other hand, sometimes hearing that someone else loves a name can be like water for a sprout, too. I have had Dean, Harvey, and Ruben all on my own list, and Dean and Harvey are still on my list, and Harvey in particular is a name of my heart, and I think Dean is particularly good with your surname. And I don’t know if it’s the same for you, but I just never get as excited about boy names as I do about girl names, and even though Paul and I are moderately compatible baby-namers, it still always comes down to more like “Which of these names do I feel most SATISFIED with?”/”Which of these names do I feel most WARMLY toward?” as opposed to “Which name do I most LOVE?” And, once a Pretty Satisfactory List has been assembled, I find that the lowering of standards leads to its own levels of fun. Like, here we go, perfectly good names, let’s just Pick One, no real pressure—and once that shift has happened, and I am looking at my Okay names on their own spectrum (with no “Names I Hate” on one end, and no “Names I Love But Can’t Have or Haven’t Found” on the other end), I can start to get more enthusiastic about the decision. (And, in one case, once we were at the Just Pick One stage, I DID think of another name I felt more enthusiasm for, and sold it to Paul, and we used it! …But pretend I didn’t say anything, because you don’t want to be HOPING for that to happen.)

And it can be fun to play the games you’ve seen me recommend, and I think those games are MORE fun with Just Fine names, because it can be more like Discovering Your Joint Preferences rather than Battle of the Passionate Favorites. Write them each on their own little half index card and put the cards near where you spend a lot of time, and just sort of lay them out in various ways and consider them and sort them. Or flip through them one a day and pretend each day that you’ve decided to use that name, and try it out in various ways the whole day, and refer to the baby that way to each other, and think about telling that name to friends/family/receptionists/teachers, and see how you feel. Have each parent rank the names (names may share rankings, so that for example you could have two names ranked #1, three names ranked #2, one name ranked #3, and so on) and see if there are any that are low for both of you or high for both of you. Write each first name out with the middle and surname, in printing and in cursive, maybe in a bunch of fonts on the computer, and see how you like the look of it; write the initials and see what you think. Make one of those little bracket things people use for sports and see which names win. Draw a name out of a hat, and pretend it’s the name you have to use, and see how you feel. Find famous people with each name and see if any of those names can coax you into liking the name even more.

There can also be room to put Flutter names in the middle name position, especially when the couple is using only one parent’s family’s surname. Perhaps your husband can’t settle on Rhys as the first name when he loves Royce, but would go for it as the middle name to balance things out.

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

Baby Boy T——-i arrived a few day ago on our anniversary! Three years and a family of three! Your letter and all the comments were very helpful. A lot of folks suggested Robert(s) as the first name (nn Bo), and while I’m normally a huge fan of giving the maiden name as a first name when possible (if I was a commenter I probably would have suggested this too!), ultimately we just didn’t like the name Robert enough to justify the honor. We went to the hospital still undecided, but by using your activities had narrowed it down to Dean, Bodhi, and Asa (we got the ok to add Asa back into the running). We tried calling him by each name for a few hours at a time and finally decided on Dean Roberts T——- i. To you and those that wrote about not focusing on finding a name you are passionately in love with, but instead reframing to find a name that you and your partner are mutually happy with, thank you! As soon as I thought of it in this new way (Discovering Your Joint Preferences), it was so satisfying to choose a name we both bonded over together, which is how Dean came to be.

ST