Author Archives: Swistle

Baby Girl Brown, Sister to Frederick

66 Replies

Hi Swistle,

I’ve been reading your blog for years and my husband and I finally feel the need for some advice for naming our baby girl, due at the end of July. She will most likely be our last baby. After looking through name lists for years I’m definitely getting name-fatigue and am worried we’re overlooking something.

Our son is named Frederick Miles, nicknamed Freddie and sometimes Fred. We like traditional familiar names with nickname potential and aren’t too popular: both my husband and I have very common first names with a very common last name. Frederick really hits that sweet spot for us and we were hoping for another name with similar history and current use. We both love that we haven’t met other little boys with his name. For middles we prefer not to use honor names, just something that we like that flows with the first name.

We do have a few rules and preferences No repeated first initials M, R, or F – this is a non-negotiable for my husband. Nothing too Biblical/religious. I like strong sounding, non-frilly (warrior-queen) girls’ names that don’t end in ‘a.’ Most of the little girls I know have an ‘a’ sound at the end of their name and I prefer something more tailored – but it is not so much a rule as a preference. Also, nothing that sounds like a play on words with our last name, word names, color names, although my husband thinks that’s cute. He tends to like more feminine, whimsical names for girls. There are a few names we both like. If Freddie had been a girl he would have been Winifred, but obviously we can’t use it now which is heartbreaking. We have almost agreed on Harriet Faye, nn. Hattie which I like but don’t know if I love. My husband liked the name Harriet first and I’ve come around to it – plus it checks every rule and preference box.

Names I like:
Gertrude (I know it’s controversial but I LOVE everything about it. Nn. Gert/Gertie, Tru/Trudy or Rudy! This one has been hard to get over.)
Margaret (M-name; a little too common but I have loved it for years, so many nickname options!)
Beatrix/Beatrice (Bea, Bebe, Trixie)
Prudence (Prue, too religious sounding for my husband)
Katherine (Kit; not quite rare enough)

Names my husband likes:
Violet (Vi, Vivi)
Cordelia
Pomeline (Pom-Pom, way too cutesy for me)
Helen (nn. Nell, Nellie)
Juniper (Junie)
Penelope (Penny)

Names we both like/our short list:
Harriet (does Hattie sound too similar to Freddie?)
Josephine (concerned it’s getting too popular; nn. Josie)
Clementine (two pronunciations; don’t know if we love Clem/Clemmie)
Wilhelmina (husband loves, but I’m concerned it’s a mouthful and hard to spell; nn. Willa, Billie, Minnie)
Georgia (nn. Georgie; too southern for us? Is Freddie and Georgie too Harry Potter??)
Olive (nn. Ollie or Liv; getting more popular and Olive Brown breaks the rules – but we both still really like it)
Annie (we love this but would only use a longer form and can’t find the perfect one)
Juno (Junie; style outlier for us)

Should we stick with Harriet or are there other names we should consider?

Thanks for your help!
Rachel

 

I think Frederick and Harriet is a HEART-EYES sibling set. I think Hattie is not at all too similar to Freddie.

I wish I could suggest Millicent, but it breaks the repeated-initial rule. I love it with your surname; I love it with the sibling name. Nickname Millie.

I wish I could suggest Florence, but it breaks the repeated-initial rule. I just love it, and I think it has that tailored sound you like.

Another nickname option for Clementine is Minnie. Visually it wouldn’t have occurred to me, but verbally it works. I think as long as you want the Oh My Darling pronunciation, you won’t have many pronunciation issues; if you want the -teen sound at the end, you will probably have to accept a certain level of pronunciation-correction as part of the package deal of the name.

I wonder if you’d like Imogen. Nicknames Immy or Midge or Genny.

I had Wilhelmina on my own list, but Paul and I both come from predominantly Dutch families, so we were considering the Dutch variation Willemina, a spelling I prefer anyway: it’s the “hel” part of Wilhelmina that just feels like Too Much to me, spelling- and pronunciation-wise.

Georgia doesn’t feel too southern to me. The state certainly is in the news a whole lot right now; I don’t think that would stop me from using the name, but it might give me pause. Freddie and Georgie wouldn’t have made me think of Harry Potter, but we need to ask the people who read those books again and again, because there are a lot of people in that category, and they’re all reading those books again and again to their kids. But also, I don’t mind as much when the issues are with nicknames: if the Fred and George association turns out to be (1) a constant issue and (2) unpleasant for them, they have other name options that avoid it.

A name in a similar category as Georgia for me is Augusta. It ends in -a, but more in a Georgia/Wilhelmina sort of way. Nickname Gus or Gussie.

Looking at Margaret and Gertrude, I wondered if you’d like Gretchen.

Looking at Gertrude and Prudence and Juniper and Juno, I wonder if you’d like Judith. It’s a bit cutting-edge, because it’s not quite time for it to come back, but I think it would surprise people in a good way. There’s the usual nickname Judy, or there’s also Jude.

I love Cordelia from your husband’s list. I encountered a real-life Delia and the name struck me very positively. I like how Frederick and Cordelia sound together: all those matching consonant sounds, assembled so differently.

I love Beatrix from your list. I would think the whimsy of the alliteration with your surname might please your husband.

Penelope and Josephine make me think of Philippa. I like the way it gives you sibling-name alliteration without actually repeating an initial: Frederick and Philippa, Freddie and Pippa.

Penelope and Josephine and Wilhelmina make me think of Philomena, but I like that less than Philippa, mostly because I am still reeling from the cuteness of Freddie and Pippa.

I have been going back and forth about whether I should suggest Persephone. Frederick and Persephone; Freddie and Persy. Definitely there would be spelling/pronunciation issues, but perhaps worth it!

 

 

 

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

It’s time for our name update! There was so much great feedback from you post and all the comments that inspired Mike and me to revise our finalist list. We ended up with 4 names that we couldn’t decide from and went to the hospital hoping one would stand out once we met our baby girl. The names were Harriet, Beatrix, Wilhelmina and Josephine. Mike had loved Harriet the most from the beginning and when I spent the first few minutes with her, I knew she was our Hattie. We went with Harriet Faye and it has all of the qualities we wanted in a name: strong and traditional, familiar but uncommon, and just a bit nerdy. We love it so much now on our 3-week-old and wanted to thank you, Swistle, and all the commenters here for the positive feedback that helped to reinforce our choice.

Warmly,
Rachel

Our Favorite Baby Names Starting with C

61 Replies

Here is the game we are playing:

We are going to pretend that we are naming a baby and that the name MUST start with a certain letter, and so we will need one name starting with that letter for a boy and one name starting with that letter for a girl, or else one name that would work for either, EVEN IF we don’t like any of the names that start with that letter enough to Actually In Real Life choose them. It is just a game where we place artificial restrictions on reality in order to create the kind of tension that makes games fun—like when you have to choose what foods you’d eat if you could only eat three foods for the rest of your life: the fun is in thinking it over AS IF it were a real forced decision, while KNOWING it is not. There is a baby! It MUST be given a name with a particular letter! That is the game.

After that basic concept, we can decide our own sub-rules, based on what makes the game fun and not stressful. Some examples:

• I’m not planning to play that the name has to fit with the names of my other children or with the surname, though this would be an option for anyone who would LIKE to play it that way; I think I will have more fun if I pretend it is a stand-alone baby and that the surname is not an issue, though I may change my mind as we go. (And if I narrow it down to a few options and can’t decide, I might use siblings/surname as a tie-breaker.)

• It is also fine to narrow it down to a few finalists without getting to The One Name.

• The boy name and girl name don’t have to work TOGETHER: we are only naming ONE baby, so you’d only use one or the other. But you MAY play that the names have to work together, if that’s more fun.

• It is fine to wave aside issues such as a friend who already used that name, a famous person with the name, etc., if that makes it more fun and less stressful to choose. This is just pretend, so you can pretend that those things aren’t issues if you want to. (Or you can let the issues stand as they are in real life, if THAT is more fun.)

• We can also all make our own decisions about whether the names have to be ones we think we’d ACTUALLY USE in that hypothetical scenario, or just our FAVORITE names starting with that letter, regardless of whether we think the names are practical; I am not sure which way I will play it, and I likely won’t be consistent.

• If you already have a child with a name starting with the letter we’re working on, you get to pick again from all the names that remain; you don’t have to choose your child’s name as your favorite just because it WAS your favorite: this is a FRESH baby, and you wouldn’t give it the same name as your existing child. (If you would normally prefer not to repeat an initial within a sibling group, you can just pretend that’s NOT a preference for the sake of the game.)

• You can do as much or as little explanation as you like in your comment: you can just list the names you chose, or you can explain your process/preferences/reasoning/runners-up, or whatever is most fun.

 

Today’s letter is C. For girls I already have Celeste, Claire, Clara, Clarissa, and Cordelia on my list. I also like Catherine and Cecily and Cora. I like the sound of Charity and Clarity. I love the name Claudia, but it’s the name of Paul’s ex. I didn’t realize how many girl C names I liked until this post. If I’d had to choose a C name when I was actually naming my actual girl, I think we would have chosen Clarissa. Naming one now, and with the idea that we can ignore things that would be complications in real life, I think I’d like to choose Claudia.

For boys, I already have Charles and Calvin on my list. I also like Caleb. I like Clarence because of a book; I’m hoping to see it come back soon, along with Laurence and Florence and so forth. I choose Charles, called Charlie: that was one of our finalists for Henry, and I’m not excited about it, but I still like it and feel like it’s a good solid choice, and that’s all I ask of my boy-name list candidates.

 

Now you! If you want to! Only if it’s fun and not stressful! Feel free to adjust the game-play to be fun and not stressful!

Names that Are Gender Neutral Leaning Masculine

42 Replies

Hi Swistle,

I am writing at the request of my cousin, who has a non-baby but still-naming question, if you’d be open to assisting. My cousin’s name is Trudy with a J, but they are non-binary and are looking for a name that suits them better. They have been using Jay as an interim solution and are planning to use it as a middle name going forward, so the letter J does not otherwise need to be honored. They have also considered Jude as a first name, but are concerned it doesn’t feel different enough from Trudy with a J.

Generally, Trudy likes names that are gender neutral leaning masculine and has a strong preference for a name that is able to be shortened to a nickname. The current frontrunner is Ryan (with the nickname “Ry”). Names they like but don’t feel quite right include: Wyatt, Evan, Emery, Cole, Dylan, Clarke, Austin, August, Ray/Rae, Wilder, Brennan, Teagan, and Leo.

More broadly they like Y sounds like in Ryan, E sounds like Evan and Emery, L sounds, and R sounds. They also like the idea of a nature-related name like Sage.

We are hoping you might have some additional suggestions or other thoughts!

Best,
Decca with a B and Cousin Trudy with a J

 

I instantly seize upon the idea of using Jude. It meets the preference for a name that is gender-neutral-leaning-masculine. It’s similar to the given name, in a way that would make it a fairly easy switch, not that that’s our primary goal, and in fact it sounds like the goal is to make a bigger change, so I understand if this is actually a con rather than a pro. It also doesn’t meet the preference for a nickname (though J. would still work—or J.J. with the middle initial). Still, this reminds me of when parents pick of their family surnames as a joint/new-family surname, and then it happens that the OTHER parent’s surname makes a great first name for one of their kids: it’s just so nice when it works out so easily/nicely, and it’s not common for it to do so, which makes me want to GRAB it when it’s available. In this case, it seems fairly rare that the given name would yield such a lovely unisex alternative so easily, and so my inclination is to leap on it. But! I am picking up from the letter that this idea is the kind of idea that seems perfect on paper but is not clicking in real life, so I will lend my support to it in case it is still an option, but otherwise we will move on to other possibilities.

You don’t mention your cousin’s age, but one thing that feels important to me when choosing a new name is to choose something age-appropriate. The name Wilder is what made me think of it: it’s a name that was virtually unused as a first name until the last decade or so. Encountering it on a grown adult would be startling and might invite unwelcome follow-up questions (“Wow! How did your parents choose that?”). But this is my own preference: some people would prefer to have a name doesn’t draw attention / start conversations, and others don’t mind and/or would even like the attention/conversations.

Another issue I like to consider is how easy the name change is to announce/explain, and I expect there would be a wide range of preferences on this, which is one reason it’s good to think it over ahead of time. If I imagine changing my name from Kristen to Kris or Christian, both of those feel fairly simple and undramatic, which is what my own preference would be; if I imagine changing my name to Panther or Sterling, those feel more difficult, and well outside my preference for causing a stir/reaction. But others wouldn’t mind the challenge or the reaction, and/or would even like it.

Ryan is a terrific option. The usage is definitely neutral-leaning-masculine, and it would suit a wide range of ages. Ry seems less like a nickname and more like a pet name (I think of nicknames as something you could write on a name tag or school paper, like “Sam” or “Charlie,” while a pet name is something someone might call you verbally or in a text, such as “Em” or “T”), but the important thing is that it satisfies their own definition of a nickname.

I am noticing as I look for more name/nickname combinations that a lot of names with nicknames tend to have pretty gendered usage, and it’s the NICKNAMES that tend to be gender-neutral—which is the wrong way around for what we’re looking for. Nicky can be for everyone, but Nicole is used only for girls and Nicholas only for boys; Alex can be for everyone, but Alexandra is used only for girls and Alexander only for boys; Sam can be for everyone, but Samantha is used only for girls and Samuel only for boys; Charlie can be for everyone, but Charlotte is used only for girls and Charles only for boys; Lou can be for everyone, but Louise/Louisa are only used for girls and Louis only for boys.

And gender-neutral given names tend not to have nicknames (Lee, Drew, Casey, Grey, Sage, Lane, Riley, Reece, Rory, Quinn, Avery, Teagan), or else have nicknames that feel gender-specific: for example, Emerson can be used for anyone, but Emmie feels feminine; Elliott can be used for anyone, but Ellie and Lottie feel feminine; Hollis can be used for anyone, but Holly feels feminine.

There are exceptions, of course, it’s just that they’re harder to find. Cameron is a pretty perfect example: the name itself is gender-neutral, and so is the nickname Cam. Alex is gender-neutral; the nickname Al leans masculine. Finley is gender-neutral leaning somewhat feminine (though I would have thought leaning masculine if I hadn’t just looked up the numbers); the nickname Finn leans masculine. Campbell is gender-neutral; the nickname Camp is more masculine, the nickname Cam neutral, the nicknames Cammie/Bell/Bella feminine. Micah is gender-neutral-leaning-much-more-masculine; the nickname Mike leans much-more-masculine. Callan is gender-neutral-leaning-much-more-masculine; the nickname Cal is gender-neutral-leaning-more-masculine. Parker is gender-neutral; the nickname Park is also gender-neutral (and kind of nature-y!). Skyler is gender-neutral; the nickname Sky is also gender-neutral (and kind of nature-y!).

Let’s let Park/Sky segue us into finding more nature-y options. …Actually, I’m not finding much. Nature names such as Fern and Meadow and Willow are used overwhelmingly for girls, while nature names such as Forest and Jasper and Stone are used overwhelmingly for boys, to the point that none of them feel gender-neutral. River, perhaps: that one is gender-neutral-leaning-masculine; no good nickname, though. Ocean is gender-neutral; again, no good nickname. Perhaps Laken with the nickname Lake? Larkin with the nickname Lark? Cedar—but no good nickname. Fielding? That feels like a reach.

This is the point where, when I am helping parents name a baby, I start to wonder if the reason they’re struggling is the same reason I’m struggling: that the preferences are working against each other. That is: it may be that if we look at the field of names that are neutral-leaning masculine AND have a good nickname, we will have given ourselves too tiny of a list to work with, and that’s why we’re stuck. Nicknames tend to go with more gender-specific names; gender-neutral names tend to be less likely to have nicknames. Nature names tend to lean feminine and tend not to have nicknames. Etc. Sometimes the next step is to rank those preferences to see which are most important (and/or identify which preferences seem to be eliminating otherwise-loved names most problematically)—and possibly eliminate a preference altogether, if necessary to get to the names we love and want to use.

Sometimes this can be resolved by loosening/modifying a preference rather than eliminating it: e.g., expanding the definition of “nickname,” which your cousin has already done by allowing Ryan/Ry. Perhaps this expansion would include initial nicknames, such as R.J. and E.J. and so forth? Having the middle name Jay makes this beautifully easy.

Or I wonder if a surname name is the way to go here? A LOT of those are gender-neutral, and many maintain a gender-neutral feeling even if actual usage tips one way or the other. And if there is a good relationship with the family, it may be possible/pleasant to pull a surname from the family tree. Here are some other surname candidates (including a few already mentioned):

Alcott/Al
Alder/Al
Ashton/Ash
Barrett/Bear/Barry/Rett
Beckett/Beck/Bex
Blakely/Blake
Callahan/Cal
Callan/Cal
Campbell/Cam/Camp
Colby/Cole
Elliot
Ellis
Finley/Fin
Gibson/Gib/Gibs
Holland/Hol
Hollis/Hol
Keller/Kel/Kells
Merrit
Miller/Mills
Percy
Perry
Quincy/Quin
Reilly

One of our favorite tests around here is “the Starbucks test,” which is where you order a coffee (or anything where you have to give your name) and tell the barista the name you’re considering: Ryan, or Lake, or Miller. It gives a perfect low-investment opportunity to try on a name: see how it feels to say it, see how it feels to perhaps have to repeat/spell it, etc. In a pandemic, this may not work as well—but perhaps SOON, and/or perhaps in the meantime for take-out orders!

Baby Girl or Boy, Sibling to Elliott

16 Replies

Hi Swistle,

Hoping you can help us out!

I am due in 2 weeks with my second baby. I haven’t found out what the baby’s sex will be but am hung up on boy names.

Baby boy names at the top of the list are Nathan, Finn and Nicholas. Others which we have rejected for one reason or another include Hayes, Henry and William.

Our last name is of British background with an -er ending, think Cooper.

If this baby is a girl, she will be Kate or Hazel. I would say our naming style is pretty traditional with perhaps a soft spot for 80s names. We probably will have 2 or 3 children.

My daughter is named Elliott. If my daughter had been a boy, she would have been named Nathan. A few months after Elliott, my sister had a baby and named him Ethan. With Ethan as our nephew (who we are close with), is it acceptable to name our child Nathan? This is the only factor holding us back. We love the name Nathan and would mainly be calling him Nate.

Finn feels a bit trendy to me and I love Nicholas but not Nick or Nicky, so am reluctant on it. William got ruled out as it’s the name of my husband’s grandfather and I don’t love the idea of naming baby after anyone. Hayes is a bit trendy and I always thought “Haze” so we nixed it. Henry got the axe as the “r” sound is difficult for me to pronounce in my heritage language so a translation or transliteration of the name or any name with a “r” sound would be hard for me to pronounce in that language. We have ruled out names ending in “-er” due to our last name also ending in “-er”.

Opinions please on the Nathan and Ethan dilemma plus any other suitable names in the vein of my taste are welcome! Thank you so much for the help.

 

I think it’s totally fine to use the name Nathan. A cousin named Ethan seems like a non-issue to me: the names may have the same ending, but they sound and feel enough different—maybe not enough for siblings, but enough for cousins, even close cousins who spend a lot of time together. And if you would call him Nate, that makes it even less of an issue.

Another possibility is using the name Nathaniel: you could still call him Nate, but it removes even the tiny worry that matching name endings would be a problem. But I don’t think this is necessary at all: if you prefer Nathan, I think you can go right ahead and use Nathan.

Other names I wonder if you might like: Benjamin, Calvin, Nolan, Simon, Wesley, Wilson. But it seems to me you’ve already found the winner with Nathan.

The girl-name options catch my interest: the name Elliott/Elliot has unisex usage in the United States, and is currently used more often for boys; Kate and Hazel, on the other hand, are used exclusively for girls. [Note: according to the Social Security Administration, there were 6 new baby boys named Hazel in 2019—but in that same year there were 15 new baby boys named Sophia, 11 new baby boys named Elizabeth, 12 new baby boys named Olivia, and 14 new baby boys named Isabella, and yet it still feels accurate to say that all those names are used exclusively for girls.] If I saw a sibling set of Elliott/Kate, or Elliott/Hazel, I would assume brother/sister. This doesn’t mean I would advise deliberately choosing names you like less than Kate and Hazel, just to match the usage of the name Elliott—but if you WERE looking to expand your list of girl-name options, I might be suggesting names such as Keaton and Darcy and Finley and Hollis and Reese and Teagan.

 

 

 

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

I have time to provide an update and love reading others’ so here we go.

I wrote you 2 weeks from my due date and was stressing because I was sure 1- I was having a boy and 2- that you may not answer my question before I had the baby.

Well, thank you for your comprehensive and clear answer and also for all the thoughtful commenters. The insight was so helpful and timely, as I ended up having the baby 6 days before my due date. Reading everything took such a load off.

The baby was a girl so the Nathan/Ethan dilemma became irrelevant. We named her Kate, which we know will likely make Nathan obsolete if we have a third and it’s a boy. Given we are unsure about the future of our family, we’re more than ok with this trade off.

Thank you so much again for your expertise and your help, and for that of the commenters! I so appreciate it.

Baby Girl or Boy, Sibling to Ethan and Sophia

20 Replies

Hi Swistle,

My husband and I are expecting our 3rd child, and we don’t know the gender. We’ve essentially agreed on Eliana for a girl, but for a boy I’m torn between 2 names- Nicholas and Benjamin.

Our first two children are Ethan Justin (Justin after my husband) and Sophia Grace.

I loved these names because of their sound but also because of their meaning. Ethan “strong” and Justin “righteous” and Sophia “wise” and Grace “graceful”.

So I have a strong and righteous boy and a wise and graceful girl and it fits both of them perfectly. Now with number 3 we are a little more established, but and I love that Nicholas means “victory of the people”, and I like that it can go with middle name John (after my Dad).

Benjamin is my husbands first choice, and I have to admit it has really grown on me. It seems to flow better with the name of our other kids.
What I don’t like is it’s meaning “son of the right hand” or “son of old age”. Also, I don’t want his initials to be BJ so I wouldn’t use John for a middle name. Most likely I’d use Alexander.

I’d like to know what you think of when you think of these two names and experiences with people with these names.

Thanks very much

 

What I think is that name meanings are fun the way horoscopes are fun. I always look up the meanings of names I’m considering for my own children, just as I look up their zodiac signs once they’re born—but I don’t think of it as something that Actually Signifies anything, and I wouldn’t let name meanings decide the names I chose, any more than I’d let zodiac signs decide the timing for trying for a pregnancy. It’s fun when the meaning enhances a name, but not a deal-breaker when it doesn’t. I think it’s nice that your first two children’s name meanings enhance their names for you, and fun that so far it’s working out that the meanings seem to fit with who they are. But if you and your husband both prefer the name Benjamin, I absolutely would not advise letting the meanings of the name candidates overrule your preference. So that is where I am starting from, but I know we have lots of commenters who are more into name meanings than I am, so this is where I think the group-project element of this site really pays off.

I think I’d start by looking a little further into what is it you like about the meaning of the name Nicholas, “victory of the people” (or, elsewhere: “people of victory” or “people’s conqueror“). I can easily imagine contemporary applications that would make this meaning feel like it was referring to triumph over evil/injustice, and/or more generally to justice/strength/righteousness—but my mind also goes toward the violent and war-like elements of those concepts. It feels like a veer from the virtue meanings of strong, righteous, wise, and graceful.

And I’d want to look a little further into what you DON’T like about the meanings of the name Benjamin. I dabbled a little, and one theory seems to be that “son of the right hand” is a reference to strength, in which case the name Benjamin coordinates particularly nicely with the name Ethan. More generally: someone on your right hand is someone you can trust and depend on; to be seated at someone’s right hand is to be given the highest possible honor. And the other possibility, “son of old age,” feels comforting and nurturing to me; again, a nice combination with strength/righteousness and wisdom/gracefulness—and a nice way to be careful that we are not thinking of boys as having one set of virtues and girls as having a different set.

It seems to me that the main loss, if you use Benjamin, is John as the middle name. I think of B.J. as problematic initials mostly if they’re the first/last initials (i.e., noticeable to other people), or if the parents plan to call the child by first/middle initials (or think others in their circle might do so). If not, I think you could still use John as the middle name—but if it persists in bothering you, I do understand: I have similar aversions among my own name preferences. Alexander is nice; is it an honor name? Does B.A._. work okay with the surname initial? Are there any other honor names from your side of the family that would work well? Could your name or your middle name or your mother’s name or your maiden name be given, in its own form or in another form (Paula/Paul, Louise/Louis, Brianne/Brian, etc.), to balance the honor of using your husband’s first name for one of your other children? Or perhaps you would want to find a middle name with a meaning that makes you happier about the meaning of the name overall; if you haven’t already discovered it, I recommend The Completely Reverse-Dictionary of Baby Names for this (though double-check the meanings with other sources).

As names considered without their meanings, I think Nicholas and Benjamin are equivalent names: both have been so widely used, and over such a long period of time, that their associations are pleasingly diluted. Both have good nicknames; both go well with the sibling names. And I think that both are friendly, solid choices that would serve a person well throughout their life.

Baby Girl Shays-Potter, Sister to Innis

54 Replies

Wise Swistle,
We would love your help deciding on a name for our daughter who is now 8 days old and still nameless. We have narrowed it down to our top two options but just cannot choose. I know it’s very short notice but even if you haven’t got time to answer I’d love it if you just posted our question to hear what your commenters think as everyone always has great ideas here!

We have a son called Innis (spelt differently but pronounced like that), which is a Scottish name that means river island. We are English/French (me) and Scottish (my wife). We deliberately chose a Scottish name for our son as I carried him and we wanted the connection to my wife’s family but that’s not a requirement this time. Baby’s surname will be double barrelled and sounds like Shays-Potter (initials C-P). Middle names will be after our grandmothers and we don’t mind about the overall flow, we just want to pick the first name based on its own merits.

Our top two options are Sorrel and Tarn. Sorrel is my absolute favourite name and I love the idea of a plant name for a baby born on the first day of spring. My wife also really likes it but is worried it sounds like sorrow, especially in her accent, and she finds it slightly hard to say. Tarn is her preferred option, and is more meaningful for us as a family. The word tarn is used in Scotland/northern England for a mountain lake, and we like the water connection with her brother’s name and the wild/outdoorsy feel as we are keen hikers and lovers of nature. Tarn is also a river and area in France where we went on our first holiday together, so has a joint Scottish-French connection as well as nice memories for us. I do love it but am worried it’s too short (all the names I love are at least two syllables, even though I do love Tarn I feel somehow that it’s not ‘me’ if that makes sense) and not namelike enough. Is it too out there?

Sorrel is the name of my heart that I would be devastated to let go of but I don’t want to use it and for my wife to regret it so I’m leaning towards Tarn. She in turn is leaning towards Sorrel because she thinks (probably accurately) that I love it more than she loves Tarn (which was originally my suggestion) and she doesn’t want me to regret not using Sorrel. So we are at stalemate! We are planning on having one more baby after this so could save either but obviously can’t guarantee it would be a girl. If this baby had been a boy (we didn’t find out until she was born) we would have used Guthrie.

Sorrel is currently 4001st in the name ranking for England, Tarn has been registered a few times for boys but never for girls. Innis’s name is 3411th in England but 83rd in Scotland. (If you’re interested you can track name rankings for England and Wales at names.darkgreener.com).

Other options we’ve recently eliminated but could reinstate if we can’t agree between Sorrel and Tarn: Delphi, Petra, Odette, Vesper.

We’ve reached a point where we feel stuck in our own echo chamber and just really want outside opinions on how these names come across to other people!

Thanks so much,
Izzy

 

If I put it through the “Which name would I want for myself?” test, I choose Sorrel. Tarn to me sounds almost indistinguishable from the word darn, and reminds me of the words tarnish and torn; sorrel doesn’t sound like the word sorrow the way I say it. Sorrel sounds somewhat name-like, even though it is not currently used as a name in the U.S., because it sounds like Laurel and Coral and the surname Norrell; I can’t think of similar names to bring Tarn into the name realm. But these are United States English impressions of the names, which may not apply.

I know she’s already 8 days old, so this suggestion could feel like too large a step back, but I do think it might actually help to kick out both Sorrel and Tarn, especially if we’re at the point where both of you feel like you can’t even use your own first choice because of how it would make the other parent feel.

Just yesterday we covered Our Favorite Names Starting with D, so Delphi from your list catches my eye, though I’d make it Delphine. Odette would be my next pick: unusual but familiar.

 

 

 

Name update:

Thanks so much for posting our question! Just wanted to let you know we decided to go for Sorrel. All the positive comments helped my wife feel more sure about it. We’re still saving Tarn for a future daughter though despite nobody seeming to like it! It was actually quite reassuring to see how many of the problems people had with it were specific to an American accent/background (e.g. I’ve never heard of the word tarnation). We have a few more years to psyche ourselves up anyway! For now we love Sorrel’s name, she is our hopeful little springtime sprout. Thank you!