Michelle writes:

Hi Swistle! My husband and I aren’t having a baby yet, but I have a question about the name Helena. I love it and would definitely consider using it if we were to get pregnant and find out we were having a girl. The only issue in having is I’m not sure which pronunciation I like most (Heh-lay-nah or Heh-lee-nah) or which most people would say on first glance. I was hoping you could put up a poll to find out (I also think this would help me figure out which I’d prefer, if I was disappointed/happy in the way the results ended up). Thanks!

I have also heard a third pronunciation, which is like HEH-leh-na, with the emphasis on the first syllable instead of on the second—sort of the rhythm of Eleanor, or like Helen with an -ah on the end.

My own favorite pronunciation is heh-LAY-na. The name Elena (with the eh-LAY-nah pronunciation) has been on my own girl name list.

Let’s have a poll over to the right! …Wait. Do you want a poll about which pronunciation people like the most, or about which one they’d use at first glance? Let’s have TWO polls, one for each question. [Polls closed; see results below.]

Samantha writes:

I love your blog and naming style, and I am hoping you can help us out. My name is Sam and my husband’s name is Danny and our last name is Giddings. We are expecting our second daughter at the end of May and are kind of stuck. I absolutely love our first daughter’s name: Magnolia Jane (we don’t use a nickname yet, but if we start it will likely be Nolie or Mags). Magnolia has a special meaning to us, it’s unique without being too weird – plus she has her own Grateful Dead song – I just think it’s perfect.  I hope to find a similarly awesome name for baby girl #2.

We are set on a middle name, which will be June after our grandmothers. I am not concerned about the one letter difference between it and Magnolia’s middle name since they will both be named for special people. However, when it comes to first names, I don’t want to repeat the same first letter or ending sound.

Here’s our short list of names:

Penny (just Penny, not short for anything) – Our top name thus far

Clementine – We both love it, but hate all the possible nicknames and Clementine is quite the mouthful

Charlie – This is would make an adorable girls name, but am hesitant because it may be hard to carry and I’ve also seen it as a nickname for Charlotte, which is quite popular (I think). Also, it rules out both Penny and Clementine if we go for a third and it’s a girl

Jude – We’d have to change the middle name for this one, but my husband just brought it up and it’s growing on me

If she were a he our short list would be River and August. Samson was our top boy name until it dawned on me that as Sam, my son would literally be the son of Sam.

Can you help us? I would be forever grateful!  I promise to email you an adorable picture with an update right after she is born. 

It’s not relevant for this baby, but if you have a son later, he’ll be the son of Sam no matter what you use as his first name. Using Samson for him might cause some confusion (because of having two Sams in one house), but avoiding it doesn’t take away the son-of-Sam issue: your name will still be Sam, and he will still be your son.

From your list, I think the only name that fits with Magnolia is Clementine: they’re both long, feminine, unusual names, and Clementine doesn’t seem like any more of a mouthful than Magnolia. Penny-short-for-nothing seems too nicknamey and casual with the long and fancy Magnolia. Charlie has the same problem, plus it’s used more often for boys while Magnolia is used exclusively for girls. Jude would be nice for the song issue, but it’s a short snappy mostly-boy name next to a long fancy only-girl name. It’s not that sibling names must coordinate, but it’s nice to avoid the kind of contrast that suggests different expectations for each child, or that causes them hassle.

If you hate all the nicknames for Clementine, it’s not quite the issue it would be if you hated all the nicknames for Elizabeth: there aren’t any familiar, natural nicknames for Clementine. I think you’d end up using the full name as you do for Magnolia, and maybe a non-name-related nickname would happen naturally over time. Or even though I see only Clem and Tina listed as nicknames, Minnie seems like it would work just as well, and it’s similar to Penny. Or you could call her Darlin’. Or it would be a big stretch, but I suppose you could call her Charlie.

Do you have a special reason for wanting to use just-Penny and just-Charlie, after giving your first child a non-nickname name? For example, did the name Magnolia seem like a good idea before the baby was born, but since then has felt too long or too fancy or too feminine for your style? Magnolia and Penelope are a good sister pair, as are Magnolia and Charlotte to a lesser extent (larger popularity difference; maybe Magnolia and Charity would work better). Maggie and Penny would also be a good combination. But once you’ve gone with Magnolia (and so far haven’t used a nickname), it makes for a startling contrast to switch.

Unless you’re deliberately trying for a style change or a startle factor, I’d look for something more like:

Anastasia
Anneliese
Arabella
Athena
Augusta (rules out August)
Aurora
Bianca
Briony
Calliope
Catriona
Cecilia (song)
Christabel
Clarissa
Delilah (which would rule out Samson) (song)
Emerald
Eugenie
Eveline (song)
Felicity
Francesca
Genevieve
Giselle
Gloria (song)
Gwendolyn
Imogen (probably not with June)
Isabeau
Isadora
Jemima
Josephine
Juliette (song)
Juniper (probably not with June)
Karenna
Lissandra
Livinia
Lorelei (song)
Persephone
Philippa
Philomena
Romilly
Rosabelle
Rosalie
Rosalind
Ruby (song)
Seraphina
Susannah (song)
Tuesday (song, sort of)
Valentina
Veronica (song)
Virginia (song)
Vivienne
Willemina

Many of those end in -a, but I left them anyway in case what you meant was more that you didn’t want to match the -lia. So many girl names end in -a, I don’t think of it as a noticeable “matching” thing the way it would be if both names started with M.

J. writes:

Hello! We’re looking for some help deciding on a name for our baby girl due in June. Her older brother’s name is Wyatt. We would like to use a family name, Rose, for her middle name. Our two favorites right now are Stella and Tessa. Our last name is similar to Thorstenson. Which name sounds better with our last name, and is there one that sounds better with Wyatt? Also, we are not set on either of these names so if you have any other suggestions they are quite welcome! We like names that are not overly popular but also not too “out there”. Other names we have considered are Clara, Savana, Maisie, and Freya. Thanks so much!

and

I’d just like to add a few things.  First, our last name – Thorstenson – doesn’t roll off the tongue so nice.  So I’d like to find a first name that comes out smooth and simple and flows well.  I think that is the main thing keeping us from committing to Stella – Is Stella Thorstenson a bit of a tongue twister with the two sets of “st’s”? And same with Tessa – is there too much of an “s” sound? Also, we are pretty set on having Rose for her middle name, so with such a short middle name and longer last name I feel that a two-syllable first name might flow best (although you are the expert on that!).
So our biggest issues seem to be finding a name that flows nice with the middle and last name, as well as finding one that sounds consistant with brother Wyatt`s name. Like I mentioned before Clara, Savana, Maisie, and Freya are some other names on our list.  More names we`ve considered are Maya, Olive (although our good friends have named their dog this, so I`m thinking that name is off limits), Aubrey, Zoe, Samara, Marylou (I love this but husband doesn`t quite as much, plus it doesn`t sound great with Rose) and Anya. I don`t know that we have a consistant style, as there are some old-fashioned names and some newer names on the list. We`d prefer a name that is timeless and one that will grow well with her (sound good as a baby, child, and adult name – this is what is keeping us from committing to Maisie or Zoe, do they sound too childish?).

Your opinions are greatly appreciated! Thank you!

Both Tessa and Stella seem a little tangled to me with Thorstenson. It’s the Thorstenson part that’s doing most of the tangling—but adding more S and T sounds seems to increase the problem. I don’t think either of them is BAD with the surname, though.

Clara is the one that stands out to me, not only because it avoids S and T sounds but also because of the pleasing early American sound with Wyatt. But for some reason, the L sound (or maybe it’s more the L blend) does something similar to the S/T sounds for me. I was thinking maybe Cora instead, but the repeating -or- sound doesn’t appeal to me.

So then I think maybe Freya. No S, no T, no L; nice with the surname; nice with the middle name; nice with the brother name. But I think Stella or Tessa (or Clara) would also work fine.

Kristin writes:

please please tell me what names you think bo (for a girl) could be a nickname for.  like, since elizabeth has a million nicknames: eliza, liza, eli, bette, bette, bess, liz, lizzy, elle, ella, bitsy, bee, bebe, betsy, and so on and so forth, could bo work? 

i’m open to random suggestions.  i heart bo.  bo.  swoon.  see? 

i couldn’t imagine using it “as is” but i would love a list of options that i might be able to squeeze it out as the baby’s nickname…  i’d love to know what you & your peeps could come up with.

I know an Isabelle whose family calls her Isabeau (her grandpa started it as a joke, and it stuck); from there it would be a short leap to Beau/Bo. But it seems like that’s a route to the nickname that would need to happen on its own, as it did for that family; it’s harder to picture putting “Isabelle (Bo) Andrews” on a birth announcement. (Though maybe that would work. Hm.)

I could see it coming from Sophia in the same way: Sophia to So-bo to Bo. Again, it seems like this would have to happen on its own.

Same thing once again: Zoe to Zoe-bowie to Zo-bo to Bo.

I don’t know if it would work for Elizabeth or not. It comes up pretty often here that someone will say “If Peg can be a nickname for Margaret, then why not [random nickname] for [any name]?” Well, because it’s not how it works, that’s why. For the most part, when a nickname comes about on its own, it’s considered a legitimate/traditional nickname; otherwise, it’s not. This is not to say you can’t pair up any name and nickname you want: you definitely CAN do that, and many people DO (and some of those then STICK and become accepted/traditional)—but the Margaret/Peg reasoning doesn’t back it up. Using a non-established nickname is a choice that comes with other people’s furrowed brows: they’ll get used to it if you want to use Zoe as a nickname for Elizabeth or Ella as a nickname for Lillian, but they won’t think it makes perfect sense the way they do when they hear of a John going by Jack. It’s not entirely fair that it works that way, but it’s something to take into consideration when choosing a name/nickname combination.

Here are the only girl names in the Social Security Administrations database for 2011 that have the letter combination “bo” in them:

Arbor
Bobbie
Bodhi
Bonita
Bonnie
Bora
Bostyn/Boston
Bowen
Bowie
Deborah
Ebony
Harbor
Rainbow

I can see getting Bo from Bodhi, Bonita, Bowen, Bowie, Ebony, and Rainbow. It also might make an excellent fresh nickname for Deborah, if you wanted to honor a Deborah in the family without the confusion of two Debbies; people are more flexible/accepting about unusual nicknames when honor names are involved. 

In 2011, there were 18 new baby girls named Bo, and another 27 named Beau. I see another 13 named Isabeau.

Isabeau is an interesting possibility. I’d need to think about that for awhile. It seems like it would cause some confusion—but on the other hand, many names come into style as variations on names that feel too popular to use: Madison leads to Addison which leads to Adelyn; Ava and Evelyn lead to Avalyn, etc. When a sound sounds good, we look for other ways to use it. Beau is masculine in French—but we’re not speaking French, and in any case Bo/Beau is your goal so I already know that’s not an issue.

[Edited to add: According to the book The Best Baby Names in the World From Around the World, the name Isabeau is used in France for girl babies. The Baby Name Bible and 100,000+ Baby Names also list it as a French girl name. None of them list it as a boy name. I’d say this crosses out what I said about beau being masculine in French, if even the French themselves don’t consider -beau- too masculine for a girl’s name. This may be one of those “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing” things, where we’ve all learned that it’s “beau for boys and belle for girls”—but without knowing the actual language well enough to draw any conclusions from that, or to understand fully how it applies. This is one reason I don’t try to do baby name consultations for other languages/countries.]

My favorite route would be to consistently refer to the fetus as Bo during the pregnancy. Then name her anything you want and call her Bo, saying, “Oh, we started calling her that when she was still a fetus, and it just stuck!” Plenty of kids still get called Bean or Peanut or Bear for that very reason, and it’s a simple story that lets people quickly unfurrow their brows about it. I think even Little Miss Overly Picky About Nicknames (that’s me) would accept that easily.

A. writes:

We are due in a couple of days and have been agonizing over first names for our little girl. She’s our first child. I want to use Elizabeth as her middle name after my Granny. My husband wants to use Lynn as her middle name after me. We both are open to picking either one based on first name choice, but we don’t want to use either name as a first name. Also, our last name is Ford and really no girl’s name sounds good to me with Ford.

We have two names we like:

Avery Lynn – we both love this name. I’m having a hard time with it because of popularity. We don’t know of any Avery’s but from researching it, it appears trendy and popular, which I don’t want. I really don’t want her to be Avery F. in school.

Emery Elizabeth – I love this name and it’s my husband’s second favorite, but he really doesn’t want to give-up Lynn and I don’t like Emery Lynn.

I’m also not a big fan of nicknames. I will always use her full name.

Help, please!

Avery is indeed popular: #18 in 2011, and likely to be even higher when the 2012 Social Security Administration statistics come out in May.

Emery is currently much less common, but climbing even faster than Avery did: Avery went from “not even in the Top 1000” in 1988 to #465 in 1995; Emery has gone from “not even in the Top 1000” in 2004 to #272 in 2011. To boil down those numbers: in their first seven years in the Top 1000, Emery made far more progress than Avery did, and so may possibly continue to move even more rapidly to where Avery is now.

However, even if that DOES happen, an Emery born in 2013 will not have anywhere near as many Emerys among her peers as a 2013 Avery will have Averys. For comparison, in 2011 the Social Security Administration records 7303 new baby girls named Avery and 1162 new baby girls named Emery.

Both Avery and Emery are likely connected to the popularity of their Top 10 more traditional versions: Avery is the modern surname equivalent of Ava; Emery is the modern surname equivalent of Emma. If you like Avery and Emery, I wonder if you’d like Ellery (the modern surname equivalent of Ella). It’s not yet in the Top 1000, but has a very similar sound to the other two names. Ellery Elizabeth Ford.

Or Ellison. Ellison Elizabeth Ford.

Or Brinley? Brinley Elizabeth Ford.

Or Waverly: it’s Avery with a W and an L, and it’s not even in the Top 1000. Waverly Lynn Ford or Waverly Elizabeth Ford.

Or Everly, not in the Top 1000 yet either. Everly Elizabeth Ford.

Delaney is ranked in the 200s and seems to be hovering right there—no lunging for the Top 10 or even for the Top 100. Delaney Elizabeth Ford.

Emery Elizabeth, Ellery Elizabeth, and Everly Elizabeth all bring Emily Elizabeth (from the Clifford stories) immediately to my mind. But the Clifford TV show was popular at my house when my eldest child was a toddler, so I’m not sure everyone’s mind would leap to this, nor is it a negative association.

Kayleigh writes:

This isn’t a question about what I should name my baby, or if a name I’ve chosen is okay, or anything strictly like that. It is, however, a question about names. You recently had a question sent by someone named Kayleigh, which happens to be my name, and all of the names she said she liked are on my list, as well… and it’s something I’ve noticed among other people in different name forums who have similar names. So my question is this:

How much influence does a parent’s name have on their naming decision for their children?  Obviously, things like a father named Samuel Jones VII is going to bear rather heavily on the naming of a son, but what about other things- are women with common names more likely to choose unusual names, or will they be more comfortable with a trendy name because they turned out fine? Will someone with a name that lent itself well to nicknames be less likely to name their child something that will also allow that? Have you noticed any trends like that in your questions and in your readership?

Thanks so much!

One thing I can imagine playing a role here is the way certain names go with certain ages. For example, a mother named Kristen or Jennifer is likely to be in a different age range than a mother named Brittany or Courtney—and so two mothers named Kristen are more likely to have favorite baby names in common than a mother named Kristen and a mother named Courtney: in the years between them, naming trends will have changed.

Another issue is that we tend to notice people more if we share a name with them. If I’d posted a question by someone named Brittany who shared your naming tastes, it would have caught your attention too—but it likely wouldn’t have caught it as firmly, or stayed with you as long. Same thing if I’d posted a question by a Kayleigh with different naming tastes than yours: you’d notice it, but that information would be more loosely filed than a double hit like same name AND same tastes. Over time, this can give an exaggerated feeling of correlation.

What I’ve noticed about the connection between naming tastes and the namer’s own name is that every combination can be used for a cause/effect explanation—even if those explanations come out completely opposite. So for example, one person will say, “I had a really unusual name, so I want something unusual for my child too,” and the next person will say, “I had a really unusual name, so I really want something traditional and familiar for my child.” (I notice similar things with parenting experiences: one person will say, “We had sweets around all the time when I was a child, so I got in the unbreakable habit of eating them” and the next person will say, “We had sweets around all the time when I was a child, so they were never a big deal and never became important to me.”)

I have wondered if naming tastes are set up largely by a person’s own family/community. This would be one possible explanation for how people with similar names tend to like similar names: if a person grows up surrounded by people named Margaret and Elizabeth, they’re likely to have a different idea of what a “normal name” is than someone who grows up surrounded by people named Oso and Grove—and a different feeling about what the reactions of their family/friends would be to a name they’re considering. But that’s when the previous paragraph kicks in, because some people grow up wanting what they think of as a normal name and/or wanting to fit/please their circle, and some people grow up wanting the opposite.

Definitely I think some of our naming tastes come from our own names—but I think our experiences with our names are so varied (“I hated it!”/”I loved it!” for two people with the same name) as to cancel out the effects. If I were to ask people to say in the comments section how their names affected their tastes, I think that’s what we’d see: a nice even split between, “Well, my name definitely affected my tastes: I always wanted a nickname, so I gave my children names with nicknames” and “Well, my name definitely affected my tastes: I hated my nickname, so I gave my children names without nicknames.” How we feel about our names affects our decisions—but how we feel about our names is more connected to us than to our actual names.

********

What do you think? Have you noticed any connection between parents’ names and the names of their children? And if so, what issues do you think enter into that connection?