[The summer schedule at our house is making it hard to keep up with posts, but I thought this one would make for a good discussion topic and poll:]

W. writes:

My husband and I are expecting a second daughter any day now and we currently have a shortlist of name possibilities. Our two-year old is Daphne Elisabeth (last name sounds like Cable with a “Kr”). My favorite potential name lately has been Phoebe since I feel like it coordinates so well with Daphne and has the same characteristics we love about Daphne, but I worry that it’s just too similar. Both names are Greek, both end in an “ee” sound, both have a “ph”, both two syllables. I can’t decide if the matchiness is a good thing or an eye-roll inducing cutesy thing.

Other first names in the running:

Juliet
Camille
Alice
Blythe

Middle name will be another longer, feminine classic like Caroline, Josephine, etc. We’re most likely done with two kids but on the off chance we had a third girl, I also wonder what in the world would go with those two and not sound out of place. So do you think Daphne and Phoebe pair well as sisters? Or do you think another name on our list (or not on our list) would coordinate better?

Thanks! I’ll send an update once we have her the first half of July!

[yop_poll id=”20″]

Brooke writes:

I’ve been following you for over a year now. Basically since we first
started trying to conceive. I’m finally pregnant and am excited to start
naming our baby!
However, I’m struggling with where to even start. I was just wondering if
you had an suggestions for books to use to start our list. I already
bought The Baby Name Wizard book, but it doesn’t seem as helpful in making
a list as it does in researching that list, once you already know a name
(or style) you like.
I think I’d like something more like a really long list of names we can go
through and either select or strike out. Do you have an recommendations?

thanks!

It will not surprise you to hear that if I could have only one baby name book, it would be the one you already own: The Baby Name Wizard, by Laura Wattenberg.

(photo from Amazon.com)

As you know, it has two main sections. The first section is a list of names; each name has a pronunciation, a snapshot of its popularity, suggested sister/brother names (which often end up being more like “If you like this name, try these”), and a brief discussion of the name. The second section is categories of names based on style.

I find it helpful for list-making because you can browse in the first section (the name list part) just as you would in a standard alphabetical-list-of-names book—but each name you look at leads you gradually to find your overall naming style. If you’re leafing idly through the first section and you think, “Oh! Alice! I like Alice!,” you can immediately see that Alice is in the “Antique Charm” and “Ladies and Gentlemen” categories. You can flip to those categories and look through them; maybe you will think, “YES. This is the style category I like: I love TONS of these names!” or maybe you will think, “Hm. No, this doesn’t really seem right.” And you will go on to the next name: “Oh, ALYSSA! I like that even better!”—and off you go to check out the “Lacy and Lissome” and “Turn of the 21st Century” categories to see if either of those are more like it.

Or you can look at the suggested sister and brother names. I played a game where I let each name lead me to another name. If I liked Alice, I’d find my favorite of the sister names (Clara) and go look that up; then I’d look in the sister suggestions for Clara, choose a favorite (Eliza), and go to THAT name, and so on. Sometimes I’d end up in a loop, right back at Alice or Clara again, with an excited list scribbled down and a feeling that I was definitely on the right path. Other times I’d start at one name I liked, but soon I’d think, “Hm. I don’t really like any of these sibling names. And even when I go back and do it over, I still end up where I don’t like anything. Maybe this name is a style outlier for me.”

The second most important book in my collection sounds more like what you’re looking for: I like to have a big huge name dictionary that pretty much lists alllllll the names. I look for a book with a huge number in the title, ideally ending with a “+” rather than an “001” (it couldn’t end up at 50,001 in any way that could be considered natural; either they had to plump up the list or edit it down). I have two: The Baby Name Bible, by Pamela Redmond Satran & Linda Rosenkrantz (authors of Beyond Jennifer & Jason, the name book that took the top of my head off back in the 1990s), and 100,000+ Baby Names, by Bruce Lansky (before that, I used his book The Very Best Baby Name Book in the Whole Wide World; I still own a copy, because 30,000 names seems more reasonable than 100,000 for browsing).

(photo from Amazon.com)

(photo from Amazon.com)

I use these for general browsing/hunting—but because they list SO MANY names, I find it overwhelming to go through page by page: my eyes glaze over and I’m not even seeing the names individually anymore. I use these books more often when I need a name that starts with a particular letter or letters and I want to make sure I look at all the candidates/variations/spellings. I also use them for meanings and origins.

However, when possible I double-check meanings and origins in the book I consider my most reliable source for such things: The Oxford Dictionary of First Names, by Hanks, Hardcastle, and Hodges. I don’t use it much for browsing, just fact-checking.

(photo from Amazon.com)

I have one more book I find fun: Baby Names Made Easy: The Complete Reverse-Dictionary of Baby Names, by Amanda Elizabeth Barden.

(photo from Amazon.com)

If name meanings are important to you, I’d recommend getting a copy: it has names sorted into meaning categories such as “Blessings & Gifts,” “Happiness & Joy,” “Intelligence & Wisdom,” and “Peace & Freedom.” (But double-check the meanings for accuracy.)

********

More name book recommendations for Brooke?

E. writes:

I had no problem choosing Baby #1’s name – Anderson Joseph (AJ ) Carnevale. It fits him so well, with just enough uniqueness, professional flair and snappy nickname options.

Now that I’m expecting Baby #2 I’m frozen on a baby boy name. I can’t seem to find a pairing that has the same qualities and pairs well with Anderson.

Scanning my list of names that haven’t been completely ruled out – but still don’t feel perfect – quickly shows that I have a surname addiction. I’d like to use a family name – Deshaies (DEE – SHAY – Z) as the middle name and all my first names are also surnames – TOO Much!

Jones Deshaies Carnevale

Fitzgerald (Fitz) Deshaies Carnevale

Reid Deshaies Carnevale

Miles Deshaies Carnevale

HELP!!

P.S. If the doc is wrong and it’s a girl, our lead candidate is Reece Deshaies Carnevale. Plan B – Lumen Deshaies Carnevale.

Three surname names in a row does seem like a lot of surname. I see two main available paths here:

1. Say, “Heck with it, I LIKE surname names!” and use three surname names.

2. Choose which is more important to you, a surname first name or the family-surname middle name, and then ditch the other.

My guess is that the reason you feel stuck is that you’re looking for something similar to your first son’s name, but you’ve started out with something completely non-similar: your first son has a familiar non-surname name as his middle, but you want an unusual surname name as your second son’s middle. Again, I see two main paths from here:

1. Say, “Heck with it! The names don’t have to be parallel!” and use the family-surname middle name.

2. Decide you’d rather have the names be parallel, and choose a familiar non-surname name for the middle name.

If you choose Option 1 for both, I’d suggest that with an unusual family surname in the middle name position, you go for one of the simplest and most familiar and least whimsical surname names for the first name—and/or another surname name like Anderson that’s already familiar as a first name. Fitzgerald Deshaies Carnevale seems like Too Much to me, especially paired with Anderson Joseph. Jones Deshaies Carnevale is my favorite from your list: Jones gives a balancing simplicity to the more complicated middle name and surname. I also like that Anderson would have AJ, and Jones would have JD.

Miller would be another nice choice. Miller Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Miller.

Or Sawyer. Sawyer Carnevale; Sawyer Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Sawyer.

Grant Carnevale; Grant Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Grant.

Bennett Carnevale; Bennett Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Bennett.

Truman Carnevale; Truman Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Truman.

Davis Carnevale; Davis Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Davis.

Wesley Carnevale; Wesley Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Wesley.

Grady Carnevale; Grady Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Grady.

Broderick Carnevale; Broderick Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Broderick.

Or this is my favorite of all: Everett. Everett Deshaies Carnevale; Anderson and Everett.

Jodie writes:

My husband and I are expecting our 2nd child, another girl, in September. Our first born is Ada Frances. Our last name sounds like Fiddle – only starts with a K.

We are decided on a first name, Violet but my husband and I are split between the middle name. My vote is for Violet Luella and his, Violet Stevie.

Other contenders that have been tossed around are:
Juno
Beatrix
Regina
Frankie (too close to Ada’s middle name?)
Hattie/Harriet
Remi

Thoughts? Suggestions?

An odd thing happens when I see Violet Stevie: my brain reads it as Violent Stevie. (This may be a side-effect of a frequent exposure to video game, comic book, and children’s book characters.) But I would prefer Violet Luella even if it weren’t for this little brain glitch: Luella seems to me to fit better with Ada, Frances, and Violet. The one mark against Luella is that it gives the complete name a lot of L—but that could equally well be used as a point in support of the combination.

My favorite of all the names you mention is Beatrix. I like Violet Beatrix Fiddle best for rhythm, style, sibling name coordination, and overall sound.

Let’s have a poll to see what everyone else thinks!

[yop_poll id=”19″]

A. writes:

We have a four year old daughter and a six month old son and though we are not currently expecting, do plan to try for another once the baby is one or so. We hope to have four children total.

My question is regarding an honour name. Both our kids have honour names for their middles – our son has his dad’s first name in the middle spot and our daughter has a double-barrelled middle that covers both grandmas.

If we have another daughter, I have a great aunt I would love to honour. She’s my late grandfather’s only sibling and never had children of her own. Her husband has children but they were adults and out of the house for years (possibly decades?) before my aunt and uncle married. My aunt is an amazing woman who was almost like a bonus grandma to all of her brother’s grandchildren. Her name is Betty and as far as I know, she has never gone by anything else except occasionally Bette.

Sounds easy, right?

Well. My husband has an uncle with whom he was very close as a boy. This uncle was the strongest (and practically only) male figure in my husband’s life. Then, he got married. His wife is well known in the family for causing drama, acting spoiled and just generally being bat-dung crazy. Over time, the uncle also changed drastically and now has a terrible relationship with my husband. They don’t speak and have nearly come to blows. Their family will not attend any family functions if we are there, do to some blown way out of proportion slight from a decade ago. My husband basically washed his hands of it and wants nothing to do with them. And guess what the wife’s name is?

Yup. Betty.

My husband is therefore 100% not okay with it for a daughter, even in the middle spot. So now I’m a bit sad.

Elizabeth alone doesn’t work for me. It’s too common of a middle name choice to feel like a real honour name when my aunt has never used it. I don’t like the idea of some other variant either because again, it’s not my aunt’s name. I’ve considered asking her what she would have named a daughter and maybe using that?

I considered her last name but her current one is my uncle’s and isn’t one that I really associate with her identity. Her maiden name is actually my maiden name and isn’t really suited to be used as a middle (it’s LONG) and also, doesn’t obviously connect the honour to her so much as it seems like I’d be honouring my father or grandfather.

Should I just let it go? Do you have any great ideas that I’m overlooking?

I think the “having a great person to honor” + “can’t use their name” is one of the saddest roadblocks to run into in baby-naming. But it definitely sounds like the name Betty is out, and I agree with your feelings about the other options.

Here is how I comfort myself in such situations: Using someone’s name for a child is a great way to honor them and tell them how you feel about them—but it’s not the ONLY way. If you haven’t already done so, I’d suggest writing her a letter telling her you wanted badly to use her name but couldn’t because of an unfortunate coincidence, and also telling her all the things you wanted to communicate to her by the use of her name. If you don’t already have one, you could also add a framed picture of her to your house: this would remind you frequently of her, as using her name would have.

Another idea would be to let her choose the child’s middle name. It’s a bit risky (what if she chooses a name you hate?), but would be a big honor and would keep her in the naming story: “My great-aunt chose that name. She was an amazing woman who…” etc.

Update on Baby Boy Farris-with-an-H: Are These Names Too Feminine?
Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl or Boy Turrawn: Narrowing Down and Finding More!
Update on Baby Naming Issue: What If You Like the Way a Name Sounds But Not How It Looks?
Update on Baby W., Sibling to Grady!

A. writes:

My husband and I are having a baby girl any day now. Early on, we realized we have zero similarities in name taste. We argued for weeks until finally he said I could name the baby and he would name the next one. After going through thousands of names, I became completely disenchanted and exhausted with names. Now, July 1st our baby is due, and I feel like I have given up. I hadn’t looked at names in weeks. Well, last week the name Alison came up from one of the original names that we had discussed. My husband likes it. I am fine with it, as it has a good meaning (noble birth) and it’s not weird or as common as Ava or Isabella. But, when we told family we were going to use it, they started saying, “How is Alison doing?” Everytime they say it, I cringe….that can’t be good..right? Names I liked before I got pregnant I don’t really care for anymore, and the very few names I did like either have awkward meanings (Azalea= dry flower) or have odd associations (Allegra= the allergy med). Her middle name is going to be Jean, because suddenly that’s what my husbands wants- after his great grandmother. Our last name sounds like ramble. I feel so upset that I can’t commit to a name and feel awkward every time I hear the name we have chosen. Other names I liked before ending up becoming bored with all names were: Alexandra,Allegra, Charlotte, Ada, Jane, and Ava. My husband liked Isabella, Lydia, Katrina, Erica and Natalie. We each disliked the other’s picks. If we have a boy he will more than likely be named Archer Phillip. But I don’t want to name my daughter something outdoorsy just because of her “possible future brother’s” outdoorsy name. Is it normal for me to feel the babies name doesn’t “fit” before she is even born?
Any sane, non emotional advice would be welcome.
Thanks!

Cringing whenever you hear the name Allison definitely seems like a bad sign—and yet I’m not sure what to suggest. “Disenchanted and exhausted” is a very good description of how you feel, and I don’t know if throwing more name suggestions at you (would you prefer Ellison? that would go nicely with the surname name Archer; or maybe Alice, for an updated sound?) is going to help. And yet I’m reluctant to reassure you: the level of dislike you’re feeling for the chosen name doesn’t sound to me like the usual cold feet. On the other hand, I remember how uncomfortable/awkward I felt with my kids’ names at first (I preferred to call them “the baby”), and I think the nurses at the hospital purposefully said the names a lot to help new parents get over that hurdle—so it’s hard to know where the line is between “It’s awkward at first” and “It doesn’t work.”

The first thing I think I’d do in your shoes is take away the “I’ll name this one, you name the next one” policy. I think that works great for some couples, but it doesn’t sound like it’s working well here. It also doesn’t sound as if it’s your turn, if your husband likes Allison but you’re cringing, and if your husband has chosen the middle name.

Or perhaps DON’T get rid of that policy, just make it your husband’s turn instead of yours? Actually, I think that might be what I’d advise trying as a first step: it would immediately take the pressure off of you. But do you think you could be happy with the name he chose, or do you think you’d continue to cringe and feel miserable in the long run, even if you got to choose the next child’s name?

It may be that in this case, you’ll have to work together. It sounds to me like you can’t do it on your own, and furthermore that you don’t want to. Also, I see a lot of overlap in your naming styles: I’d put Charlotte, Ava, and Isabella all on the same list; I’d put Ada, Jane, and Lydia together on another list; I’d put Alexandra, Katrina, Natalie, and Erica together on a third list.

It’s good to think ahead about sibling names to make sure you don’t choose something that, for example, rules out your top boy name in case you need it later. But I definitely wouldn’t worry about choosing something outdoorsy just because a future possible boy could be named Archer. For one thing, Archer can be considered outdoorsy, but it could also be considered a vocation name, a surname name, a fresh new name, an A name, etc. And I think it generally works fine to have a style gap between the boy names and the girl names in the family.

Would you be willing to drop the preference for a good meaning? If it’s a major priority, that’s something we can still work with—but this situation feels more desperate than that. Name meanings are for the most part as invented as the meanings of flowers and gemstones: names are names, and flowers are flowers, and gems are gems, whatever meaning a culture decides to attribute to them. Azalea means azalea, just as Ruby means ruby and Rose means rose; they also each mean “a combination of sounds used as an English-language name.” Alison is a diminutive of the name Alice; Alice is a variant of the German name Adelaide; the name Adelaide comes from the word “adal,” which means noble, plus the word “heid,” which means sort. (Source: The Oxford Dictionary of First Names.) But do the words “adal heid” and the name “Allison” have anything in common? I say no, which is why I generally dismiss baby name meanings as fun but unimportant.

Your naming styles really are quite similar. If you found you were arguing incessantly, it may be more a difference in discussion/negotiation/decision-making style rather than in naming style. One of the more common mistakes is for one parent to try to force the other parent to like a name, or try to argue that parent into liking it (“But you like Sophia! Why wouldn’t you like Fiona?? It’s practically the same sounds!!”). It might work better for the two of you to see if you can keep adding names to your respective lists until you stumble upon some overlap. Another method would be to use The Baby Name Wizard and look for STYLES you agree on, rather than individual names; then each of you make a list of the names you like in that style category and see if there are any duplicates.

Another exercise that sometimes works is looking at the lists and brainstorming similar names to see if both parents like any of them. “Similar” will vary considerably from one person to the next, but if it were my own list, it would start out like this:

Allegra
Arabella
Ella
Ella Grace
Ella Grey
Elle
Stella
Calla
Georgia
Gabriella
Alessandra
Lissandra
Alana
Anastasia
Elena
Eliana
Eliza
Ellery
Allison
Ellison
Emerson
Ellis
Alice
Annabel
Elise
Alessandra
Lissandra
Alyssa
Charlotte
Scarlet
Violet
Bridget
Margaret
Juliet
Greta
Colette
Harriet
Gretchen
Fern

…and so on. I wouldn’t stop too long to think about each name (“Is this REALLY similar to Allison?”), I’d just jot the names down as quickly as they occurred to me, and let each name lead me to the next name. When I ran out of steam, I’d start a new list for the next name one of you likes.