Author Archives: Swistle

Baby Boy or Girl Seer, Sibling to Theodore, Bernadette, Adelaide, Teresa, and Veronica

E. writes:

We are expecting our sixth child in June. Our last name is one syllable and begins with “S”, a simple English noun name that rhymes with “Seer”. We don’t know the baby’s sex, but if the baby is a boy, we will most likely name him Peter. We don’t have too many boy names that we like, so we don’t really need help with those.

But girl names are a different story… We have tons of girl names that we like, which is good because we currently have one boy and four girls. In age order, they are:

Theodore
Bernadette
Adelaide
Teresa
Veronica

For this baby we were initially juggling about 20 girls names, but now we have it down to six:

Agnes
Irene
Louise
Phoebe
Regina
Rosemary

My husband and I really like all six of these names. The kids are okay with all of them, but their favorite is pretty clearly Phoebe.

Our dilemma is that we can’t get past the drawbacks of each of them, so we are continuously debating them and are finding it impossible to narrow the list down any further. (Granted, Peter has its very real drawbacks too, but we nonetheless can’t come up with another boy name that we like as much.)

Will the “s” in Agnes run together with the “S” of our last name? Is the name too closely associated with “Despicable Me” right now? (Our kids think that it is.)

Hurricane Irene hit our area really badly (it knocked down a huge tree in our own yard and our neighborhood was without power for four days, there was extensive damage all over the place)… We love the name, but haven’t been able to get past that association… Do you think it is still closely associated with the hurricane for most other people too?

Does the “s” in Louise present a similar problem to the one in Agnes? Or is it kind of more of a “z” sound? Does it matter? Is it a poor choice with an “S” last name? Will a Louise be very teased? Geez Louise, Please Louise, Loo (as in toilet), Wheezy, things like that?

Is Phoebe too difficult to spell? When I think about it, many names are not phonetic — take for example the perennially popular Michael: the only reason we know how to spell it is that we have learned at some point, because it certainly isn’t spelled like it is pronounced — but still, will a Phoebe constantly deal with spelling and pronunciation issues? Or is it common enough that most people know how to spell it? Our kids think the name is a perfect fit with theirs, but is it a little off?

In the comments on all of the name sites, people constantly caution against Regina because of the “Canadian” pronunciation… What do you think? Is a Regina doomed to be teased for this reason in middle school health class, if not sooner? Some people claim that they think of the female organ every time they see the name.

And we don’t mind the herb association with Rosemary, we think it is nice… But we saw in the news that they are doing a mini-series remake of “Rosemary’s Baby” right now :( So will that very negative association be at the forefront of everyone’s mind if we name a baby “Rosemary” in a few weeks? I had been hopeful that most people wouldn’t even be aware of the movie from the 60s; my heart kind of sank when I first saw a news announcement about the remake.

There is more to say, but this is very long already so I will stop here… Thanks so much for any help you can give us!! We don’t mind going to the hospital with a couple of names still in the running, but right now we are feeling very conflicted, and we will appreciate any advice that we get.

(Oh, and middle names are not an issue because the kids all have the same middle name… My husband took my last name when we married, so the kids all have his “maiden” name as a middle :) It’s one syllable and starts with F. And also, our born kids all have nicknames that are used by the family, but the nicknames each developed over the course of their babyhoods, and we aren’t worried about the new baby’s nickname “fitting in” or anything like that.)

When choosing my own babies’ names, I found it comforting to notice that every name had its own set of upsides and downsides. There wasn’t a single name that had NO downsides: if it wasn’t too popular, perhaps it was a little too unusual; if it was easy to pronounce, perhaps it had several common spellings; or perhaps there was an association with a TV show or a biblical character, or perhaps it was hard to spell, or perhaps it combined with our surname in a non-ideal way, or perhaps we didn’t like one of the nicknames. But they ALL had SOMETHING.

It’s good to look at the downsides ahead of time, because they’re part of the package deal of each name. I feel sympathy for parents who choose a name without realizing how popular it is, or without realizing what a hard time people will have with the pronunciation, or without knowing about a strong association: I think it’s a lot harder to adjust to a downside when it’s unexpected.

Now that you’ve found the downsides in the names on your list, I think the next step is to look at the upsides. Which names make your heart leap up? Which names make your heart clench if you imagine not getting to use them? Are there names you find yourself looking for reasons to use? Picture a baby in your arms, and try each name; are there names that give you a larger rush of happiness? If you’ve narrowed twenty names down to six, it may be that you already feel equally positive toward all six. At that point, I’d probably start in on an actual list of upsides for each name (“Easy to spell,” “Love the sound,” “Reminds me of my aunt,” “Love it with the sibling names,” etc.), to see which lists were longer (though adjusted for weight: “My heart leaps up every time I think of it” weighs more than “Easy to spell”).

If you love all six names the same and can’t narrow it down any further, it appeals to me tremendously to imagine letting the kids choose the name. If the kids’ vote were divided, or if they loved a name that didn’t make your finalist list, I wouldn’t be as strongly in favor of it; but since they ALL love Phoebe best, I think it would be great fun to say “Okay!” I do think spelling will be one of the issues with the name, but I don’t think it will be a big issue: many of us have to spell our names.

If you want my personal input on the various downsides:

1. I don’t think it’s a large problem if the ending of a first name runs into the beginning of the surname, unless it results in unfortunate/confusing blends. The classic example is Ben Dover, which turns into Bend Over. Or sometimes the combination makes the first name sound like a different first name: Alec Samuel sounds like Alex Samuel, for example. With situations like Agnes Seer, where there’s just a little mushing of the S sounds but no resulting confusion, I think everyone just gets accustomed to putting a tiny pause between the first name and the last name.

2. I’m not sure if Agnes is too associated with Despicable Me or not, but it’s nice that it’s a positive association. I’ve seen the movie a few times and didn’t think of it, but I’d weigh a child’s opinion much more heavily than my own: the associations of peers will have more impact on the child’s life.

3. If you haven’t been able to get over the Hurricane Irene association, I think it’s a fair bet that others feel the same about it—especially if you’re living among the people most affected.

4. I think people will play with the rhymey possibilities of a name, but that the rhymes for Louise are non-upsetting. Rhymes such as Cooper/pooper and Lexi/sexy make me hesitate, but rhymes such as Please Louise and Anna Banana do not. The Lou/loo association doesn’t seem likely to be a big issue in the United States: perhaps a few of her peers will be familiar with that slang, but it isn’t widely used here. “John” is a slang term for toilet in the U.S., but even that isn’t something I hear much.

5. I’ve heard of the Regina issue often enough that now I think of it every time I see the name. It’s a pity.

6. I’m not sure what the effect of Rosemary’s Baby will be on the name Rosemary. It helps, I think, that Rosemary is not herself a negative character, and that small children presumably won’t be allowed to watch it. I think of the herb before I think of the book/film.

As I go through these, Louise and Phoebe seem to have the fewest issues. My own choice would be Phoebe because it’s the favorite of your other children and has the fewest issues of all. Let’s have a poll to see what everyone else thinks would be best:

[yop_poll id=”53″]

Name update!

Hello Swistle!

This is the mom of “Baby Seer” writing to let you know that I had the baby on June 29, and it was a girl, and we did name her Phoebe :) Many thanks to all of you!

The kids are all delighted with the name choice, plus they have really embraced the team concept and do feel that we named her as a team. They seem so far — if they use a nickname at all — to call her “Bee” sometimes because they also like to say “Honey Bee” and “Funny Bee” (and have even made up a little song along those lines :).

Thanks again!
Emily

Baby Girl or Boy Stinson: Choosing the Whole Naming Philosophy

21 Replies

Nancy writes:

I can’t stop reading your blog. I am four weeks from my due date without any sort of naming yet figured out, and could use all the help I can get.

A quote from an earlier post stuck me:

“A first baby’s name can cause extra anxiety because you’re also choosing your whole naming PHILOSOPHY.”

This summed up our problem naming – we’re not sure even what direction to head in, let alone specific names. For background, my parents named all five of their children with family names (my middle name is after an old family friend, but that’s the only exception in ten total names). We also have a tradition of naming the second son after the father, so if we do have two boys (a fairly big if, but we’d like to have a big family – four is the plan right now) the second one would be Philip. For reference, I’m Nancy – named after a great aunt.

My husband’s family doesn’t use family names, and he is less certain they need to be included. I would like to at least have a family name as a middle name.

With his surname (something like Stinson), we’ve felt that all names that end in -en, -an, -on, or -in are out, as they end up to rhyme-y. (For example my father’s name, Gavin probably wouldn’t work). Names that end in S are also not great, but I think workable (a possibility is Wallace Stinson, after my brother).

Another question is how soon is too soon to have a namesake? I like two of my sibling’s names, Sophie and Wallace, but they are both under thirty. I like the idea that then they have a sort of godfather/mother like position in my child’s life, but maybe it’s too much.

Away from family names, I also like some more modern names, like Wilder (for a boy) and August (for a girl). We also were considering the name Cedar (for a girl). We come from a woodsy place, so nature themed names are not uncommon.

The crux of the problem then, is that if we go with a modern or unique name, do the rest of our potential children need names that match? If we stick with family names for the first, are we stuck with family names forever?

Names we’ve considered (with relation to the baby):

Girls:
Margaret (great aunt)
Sophie (aunt)
August
Cedar

and Joanne (maternal grandmother) for a middle name

Boys:
Elliot
Paul (paternal grandfather)
Louis or Lewis
Wallace (uncle)
Crawford (great great grandfather, but also used recently for a first cousin of mine)
Wilder

Thanks for your help!

(As an aside, if this post is too long – once I started there was so much to say! – I’d love to get your or your reader’s opinion on my first question: How soon is too soon to have a namesake? In other words, can I name my baby after my brother and/or sister?)

At first I was going to say there was no such thing as too soon to use a namesake name, but then I took it to the extreme of “Well, what about naming the baby after the baby’s cousin born two years earlier?,” and I could see how that might involve additional issues. So instead I’ll say this: there is a period of time when using someone’s name could instead be mistakenly perceived as “stealing the name” (as it could seem in the example of naming after a cousin two years older), but that once that period has passed, it’s a wonderful option as a namesake name, and not too soon to use it. It might help to imagine your own aunts and uncles, and whether it would have felt weird for you and your siblings to share any of their names. I think the only reason it isn’t done more often is that it’s common for names from one generation ago to sound dated or boring by the time the next batch of babies comes along; the names of great-grandparents tend to be coming back into style and so are more likely to be chosen as honor names.

You’re also asking about whether sibling names need to match. The short answer is no, they don’t. The longer answer involves many factors, but I’d say it primarily boils down to your preferences. How much coordination would you LIKE to have? When you imagine your future family, do you feel fine with sisters named Cedar and Margaret, or does that not sit well with you? Would it bother you to have some children with family names and some without, or would that be fine?

In my own family, I found I was quite concerned about coordination at the beginning, and then less so later on. My first two children have first names that are very well coordinated, and each has a middle name that is a great-grandfather’s first name. This left me agitated when expecting the third child (which turned out instead to be the third and fourth children): Did we have to find another first name that coordinated as well as the first two did? but what if we don’t like any of those names? what if they’re getting so coordinated it’s starting to get confusing? Did we have to use another great-grandparent name for the middle name, or did it have to be a family name, or would it be wrong to use a non-honor middle name, or WHAT?

The outcome of all that agitating is that neither of the twins’ first names are the same style as their older brothers’ first names, though the styles are compatible. AND, one twin has a family first name and a middle name that’s an honor name but not a family honor name; and the other has a middle name that doesn’t honor anyone. So! We just took that mold and broke it right up. And I admit I was worried about it at the time, and so I am even gladder to report that it has so far caused no noticeable problems. No one has said to us, “Wait—so four of the kids have honor middle names and one doesn’t?” or “Wait—so you gave your FOURTH child a family name as a first name, but NONE of the other kids have family first names?” These issues turn out not to come up much in conversation, or even to be of much interest to anyone outside our immediate family. And although some kids have more honor names than others, when we tell them their Naming Stories we have stories to tell about every single name, honor or not, and there hasn’t been any “Nyah, nyah, I’m named for a great-grandfather I never met and you’re NOT!” or the like.

Where was I? Oh, yes: my overall point is that it’s up to you and your husband, and that I encourage you not to get too agitated about making the names come out the same. But my own personal preference is to keep the first names in compatible styles: for example, I wouldn’t advise having sisters named Margaret and Cedar, and would instead lean toward either the Margaret and Sophie direction OR the Cedar and August direction.

The possible future son named Philip adds a little complication, doesn’t it? Since you don’t know if you’ll have a second son, it’s hard to know how much to let the tradition influence your choices. How important is this tradition to you? How many generations has it been in effect? How set are you and your husband on going with it, if you do have a second son? Would you be willing to modify it in any way, such as using the name as a middle name instead of as a first name? These are the sorts of questions I’d consider when choosing how to proceed.

If you go the Cedar and August route for girls and then use Wilder for a first son, the name Philip now stands out rather vividly; it’s definitely an easy situation to explain (“It’s a family tradition to name the second son after the father”), but it could make it seem as if you don’t like Philip’s name and only used it because you had to. And of course you could instead have Cedar, August, Wilder, and then another GIRL. It feels a little frustrating to imagine carefully planning for a Philip by naming your first three children Margaret, Sophie, and Louis—and then having another girl. That would, however, be my own inclination: if I were absolutely decided that I’d use Philip for a second boy, and if I were planning a number of children where a second boy was statistically likely, and if I had two favorite name styles and one of them was compatible with the name Philip and the other style wasn’t, then I would use that as my helpful deciding factor for using one style over the other. Then I would consider my second-favorite style as middle names.

I guess the strategy I’d suggest is this: First, discuss the “second son named Philip” idea, and decide if you’re going to do that or not, and if you’re willing to modify that or not, and whether it would bother you if his name was the only name in the group that didn’t coordinate with the others. If, for example, you don’t want brothers named Wilder and Philip, but you ARE willing to modify the naming tradition and make Philip a middle name, this lets you consider Wilder Elliot and Crawford Philip.

Second, discuss how you two feel in general about the coordination of first names: try out some combinations (“Sophie, Wilder, Cedar, Philip,” “Elliot, Philip, Cedar, Paul,” “Louis, Cedar, Philip, August”) and see what feels right to you and what doesn’t.

Third, based on those decisions, choose the basic style of the first names. Are you going to go with coordination (Margaret, Wallace, Sophie, Philip; or Cedar, August, Crawford, Wilder), or a happy assortment (this is where you choose names from different styles, but avoiding three of one style and one stand-out), or one style for the girls and a second style for the boys?

Fourth, pick your favorite boy and girl names of this style for this baby.

Fifth, make a list of middle names: family names, names that don’t work as first names in the chosen style, any other names you might want to use. Pick the middle names you like best with your two favorite names.

With a larger family especially, I wouldn’t worry about making all the names coordinate perfectly: if your first baby ends up with a family first name and a nature middle name, for example, that doesn’t mean all the rest of the children have to have family first names and nature middle names. In fact, I might deliberately make the second child’s name a different kind of pairing, to keep from feeling stuck with a pattern or creating family expectations (“They used this name and that name, so I must be next!”). What I think works well is trying to balance the naming stories: if one child has “Oh, we chose your first name after Aunt Sophie, and your middle name we just LOVED and it reminded us of this beautiful area of the country,” and your second child has “Your first name we just LOVED as soon as we heard it and knew we HAD to use it, and your middle name is after your great-grandfather,” then I think everyone will be happy and no one will feel slighted. I think it’s more of a problem when one child has two names of huge and interesting significance and the second child gets a shrug and a “Huh? Oh, I think we just found it in a name book? or something? I don’t really remember.” And among those of us who love names, I doubt that is ever a problem.

Name update! Nancy writes:

Baby Stinson finally arrived last week! We were 90% sure of our name choice for a boy (Paul Crawford) but, of course, Baby Stinson turned out to be Baby Girl Stinson. We had a long list of possible names, but somehow naming a real live living being was much more daunting then naming a potential being in my belly. So it took us a couple days.

Ultimately, we went with family names. Sophie Joanne (after my sister and husband’s mother) had been on our list from the beginning, and then when my husband’s sister was visiting she suggested the name Sophie out of the blue (without knowing we were already considering it). I did call my sister Sophie to check that it would be ok with her first. It may cause some confusion, but it felt better to name the baby after someone then simply pick a name because we liked the sounds (we came very close to choosing Hazel Margret, with no family connection to Hazel).

Long story short, she is Sophie Joanne Stinson! And we are very happy to have her by any name.

Thanks for your all your help,
Nancy

Baby Boy/Girl Twins Wallis, Siblings to William (Liam)

31 Replies

A. writes:

We are expecting boy/girl twins this summer. We have a 2-year old son William who we call Liam. Naming him was a breeze because we always knew if we had a boy we wanted to name him after my husband’s late father. But naming these new babies is a different ball game.

We were leaning heavily toward Noah Luke for the boy and Charlie Jane for the girl (all family names which we like using if we can) but I have hesitations with each of those. Noah is so popular right now. Liam is very popular too but we loved it so much we didn’t care. We really like Noah but I don’t think we LOVE it enough to not be bothered that it has become more common. And we both think Charlie is darling for a girl but I worry that a) it might not be feminine enough since it wouldn’t be short for anything (we don’t really like Charlotte or any of the other names it might be short for) and b) when we list off all three kids names together it would sound like three boys: Liam, Noah and Charlie. We like the idea of actually calling her Charlie Jane a lot but I know the Jane will get dropped a decent amount of the time.

Now we are leaning more towards using Charles/Charlie for the boy with either Luke or Dean as his middle name (both family names). We really love Charlie and feel pretty confident we want to use it for one of the babies. Like Liam, even though Charlie is pretty popular/common, we like it enough that we don’t really care. And now we are considering Magnolia Jane for the girl and mostly calling her Maggie. My husband LOVES the name Maggie and I think it is pretty cute but I don’t know if I’m sold yet plus I wonder if Magnolia is too random and off the wall if our boys will have more traditional names like William and Charles? I like that the twins would be Charlie and Maggie which sounds more distinctly boy and girl and I think Liam, Charlie and Maggie goes pretty well together but we have talked this in circles so much that I am losing perspective. :)

Do you have thoughts on the Magnolia/Maggie idea and whether it fits in or any suggestions of other girl names we might consider? I tend to like more traditional or old fashioned names for girls and my husband tends to like cuter, more tomboy-ish names for girls so a more classic full name with a cute nickname is likely to suit both of our tastes. We are sold on using Jane as her middle name as that is a family name we love. (Oh, and our surname is Wallis.)

Any help you can offer would be amazing!
Thank you!

I liked your point about not being sure you love a name enough to ignore its popularity. I frequently encourage parents to use the name they love even if it’s a popular name, and so if you loved the name Noah and were going to use a name you liked much less only because of popularity, my first instinct would be to talk you out of that idea. But your clarification shows that’s not what’s going on here.

If I heard of the sibling group Liam, Noah, and Charlie, I would assume Charlie was a boy. In this case, it’s because the name Charlie fits very well in style as a brother name, but is a completely different style as a sister name. It’s common for parents to have a different preferred style for boy names and for girl names, and that generally works just fine; but in this case the particular girl-name choice happens to fall exactly into the same group of names as your boy-name style, which is what’s catching your eye as a potential issue. The style-match as a boy name and the style-mismatch as a girl name all but forces the name to click incorrectly into place as Boy. For this sibling group I prefer your alternate idea of finding a long feminine name with a short boyish nickname: if you loved the name Charlotte, you’d be all set.

I love that you can still use Charlie for the boy twin: it really is great with Liam, and the name Charles Wallis makes me think pleasantly of Charles Wallace (Wallace was his middle name) from the book A Wrinkle in Time. In fact, the Charles/Charlie and Magnolia/Maggie twin set seems beyond perfect to me (perhaps in part because Charles Wallace’s sister’s name was Margaret/Meg). William/Liam and Charles/Charlie are extremely compatible brother names/nicknames, and Maggie fits beautifully and is great with the middle name Jane. The name Magnolia is more unusual than William and Charles and a somewhat different style, but it’s a compatible style and not one that leads to confusion or clashing. And if you do switch Charlie from your girl-name choice to your boy-name choice, I think that makes it particularly fun that the new girl-name choice Magnolia includes all the sounds of the previous boy-name choice Noah. But if Magnolia continues to feel too adventurous for your tastes, Margaret/Maggie is terrific with William/Liam and Charles/Charlie. I like the way both twins would have the “ar” sound in their given names: Charles and Margaret. But I guess I would hesitate a little at making such a strong apparent reference to A Wrinkle in Time.

The only preference left out by Magnolia/Maggie (or Margaret/Maggie) is the preference for a boyish nickname. If you wanted to keep looking to find something a little more like Charlie, here are some possibilities:

Antonia/Toni
Augusta/Gus/Gussie (too much S with surname?)
Bernadette/Bennie/Bernie
Calista/Cal
Colette/Cole
Danica/Danny
Francesca/Frankie/Frank
Georgia/Georgie/George
Georgianna/Georgie/George
Josephine/Jo
Katherine/Kit
Louisa/Lou
Philomena/Phil
Matilda/Mattie
Theodora/Theo
Thomasina/Tommie/Tom
Veronica/Ronnie/Ron
Winifred/Freddie/Fred

Baby Naming Issue: Are Brylee and Breelyn Too Close for Sisters?

36 Replies

Gabe writes:

Hello!
I have a dilemma and I think it might be ridiculous but none the less I need baby name help stat!!

My wife is due June 10! We are expecting a girl we already have a daughter. Her name is Brylee Grace Rodriguez. We liked the idea of Hope for a middle name. An we came across Breelyn for the first name.

We have been calling her this for months but now I am thinking its so similar to Brylee. Am I overthinking it? Need help fast! I’ve been digging back into names but no luck! My wife and daughter were set on Breelyn.

Please help!!!
Gabe

Dad’s name is Elias Gabriel
Mom’s name Kayla Danielle

Names off limits
Maddison
Chloe
Ava
Giuliana
Danika
Elyssa
Danae
Dominique
Teagan

They seem much too close to me: both starting with Br-; one containing -lee and the other containing -eel; both including a Y. The names are made up of similar elements: Bree and Lee, and Bry and Lyn. They look at first like two different arrangements of the same letters. My mind immediately starts mixing and matching, getting Briley and Breeley, for example, or Brylyn and Brinley. I found that even after reading the letter many times and studying the names fairly closely, I continued to have trouble remembering which were the actual names under consideration: I had to keep looking back at the original letter. I would recommend noticing the sounds and letters you like, and seeing what other names have a similar sound. Keelyn, for example, or Aubree.

But name similarity can be subjective: one person’s way too close is another person’s adorably matched. Let’s have a poll:

[yop_poll id=”52″]

Name Updates!

Baby Girl Jane-with-a-C, Sister to Eliza Blakely

36 Replies

Lauren writes:

We are expecting our 2nd (and last!) child in 6 short weeks and are hoping you might be able to provide us your honest feedback and suggestions when it comes to finding her name. Our 19-month old daughter is Eliza Blakely and we had a relatively easy time deciding on her name, which we absolutely love. It was important to us that we find a classic yet spunky name, and the fact that the ‘E’ could honor someone very special in our family sealed the deal. Blakely is also a family name.

I would love to find another classic name with spunk and/or spunky nickname potential. I tend to like longer names when paired with our short, one-syllable last name of Jane but with a C.

Our leading contender is Lucienne. We would primarily call her Lucie (and I would love to also call her Lux, but my husband says I am alone on that one J). We have no French ties at all however, and I worry that choosing such a French name might then be a bit bizarre. I love the beauty of the name, probably in large part because it reminds me so much of Vivienne (nickname Vivi) which is a long-time favorite of mine, but only mine, if you catch my drift! Other names I like that my husband has vetoed: Vanessa, Charlotte (nickname: Lola), Talia, and Estelle/Estella. Our (only?) other joint contender at this point is Savannah. Like many women in my age group, I have loved this name since seeing the movie Savannah Smiles, and it was our runner-up choice when naming Eliza. Our hesitation in choosing Savannah is that it just doesn’t seem to fit with what I deem our ‘style’, whatever that means! It isn’t a classic name, but more of a modern beauty, and I fear I will end up feeling that it sounds dated and wish I chosen something more timeless like Eliza. I also wish it lent itself to a more obvious nickname.

Okay so that is the dilemma so far…but can we talk middle names too? My mother has been recently diagnosed with an advanced terminal illness. It is very important to me that we find a middle name that can somehow honor my mom, Terry, without using her actual name but perhaps a ‘T’ or some other variable. Currently I am leaning toward Tova (her Hebrew name), but have also flagged Terra or Tessa as possibilities.

That is a lot to chew on I know. Thanks so much for letting us pick your brain and for any name recommendations you can provide!

I think Lucienne works best. Eliza and Lucienne aren’t from the same style category, but they’re not from clashing categories either; and Eliza and Lucy coordinate perfectly. Whether it’s strange to choose a name from another culture depends on similar relationships between categories, and I’d say France and the United States aren’t the same but don’t clash either: Nicole, Danielle, Renee, Denise, and Noelle are all successful imports, and I don’t see any reason Lucienne doesn’t work too.

I agree with you that Savannah seems like a larger style leap.

Would you want to discuss the middle name with your mother, or is the honor a surprise? I’m wondering if she might be extremely touched to be allowed to help choose the name; and since you don’t want to use her actual name, she could give valuable input on what other names would feel like honor names to her. This would also give her more time to enjoy the honor, and a chance to have a long-reaching impact on her new granddaughter’s life.

If you’d rather it be a surprise, I love the idea of Tova. It feels like more of an honor than any other name that starts with T, and it gives you a little of the V-sound from Vivienne/Vivi and Savannah.

Baby Name to Discuss: Catcher

70 Replies

B. writes:

Almost 3 years ago we announced we were naming our baby boy Catcher and were immediately swamped with people telling us the name was a homophobic slur and that we absolutely could not name our baby Catcher. I was heartbroken to say the least and ended up changing the name. Some thing I’ve always regretted.

Now I’m pregnant again and I just met a baby named Catcher. My mouth dropped open when I heard it and now I find myself considering the name again. I love the name so much! I really want to use it but am really wavering back and forth as to what we should do.

I honestly had never heard the slur before. Do you think the name is unusable? Could we have a poll to see how many people had heard it used as a homophobic slur?

That’s interesting; I’d never heard that word used that way. I looked it up and did find that definition listed online. It seems to be more slang than slur: I didn’t find any mention of homophobic connotations. For comparison, I looked up a couple of terms I know to have issues, and they are listed as such: the word “fag,” for example, is listed with the notes “vulgar,” “offensive,” and “disparaging.” The word “dick” is listed with the notes “vulgar,” “slang, and “pejorative.” The word “catcher” (and the coordinated term “pitcher”) is listed only with “colloquial”: a casual term used in spoken language.

Because the baseball term is so familiar, and because I had to actively search for the other meaning, it seems like this would be a small issue. On the other hand, you have many people in your circle who are familiar with the term and feel it is an absolute deal-breaker. In that sort of situation, where the name had an intense meaning to my own friends and family, I think I would avoid the name even if it weren’t a problem in the culture at large. Do you like Fletcher or Thatcher or Hatcher?

But this still leaves us wondering how well-known this term is: Do adults know it? Do children know it? When people are discussing baseball games and the catcher and pitcher are referred to, is there snickering? I asked Paul if he knew the slang term catcher, and he didn’t. I was going to ask my two teenagers, but realized I didn’t want to have the resulting conversation right at that moment. So instead let’s have a poll:

[yop_poll id=”51″]

Baby Girl Pitzner, Sister to Kinley

58 Replies

K. writes:

I am super anxious because I just found out this morning that I’m being induced tomorrow at 7am and my husband and I can’t agree on a name for our baby girl! We currently have a 2 year-old daughter named Kinley Reese (I just love her name). Our last name is Pitzner. I would like a name for our second daughter that is different but not too off the wall. I also don’t tend to like super girly names but rather tend to like unisex or even boy names for girls – Alex, Dylan, Devan, etc. My husband isn’t as much on board with that though! I just love the name Presley for a girl but he hates it! Some of the names on my list are: Ryan, Devan and Blakely. My husband has mentioned Kylie, Kamryn and Jessa. Please help!

Baby Naming Issue: Is Simeon Too Close to Simon?

14 Replies

C. writes:

My husband and I are disagreeing about a name. I love the name Simeon, and while he likes it, it is too close to Simon (negative connotations for him) for him. I know it’s only one letter difference, but I feel the names are vastly different. What do you think? I searched the site, and it appears there are no other questions of this sort.

The names Simeon and Simon seem similar enough to me that if someone liked one name but couldn’t use it, I might recommend the other name. They seem different enough that I’d hope their differences were enough to solve the problem: the different number of syllables, the different rhythm, the short vs. long I-sound, and the additional vowel sound in Simeon.

But name similarity is in the eye of the beholder: if your husband thinks of the Simon association every time he hears Simeon, it won’t help to tell him the names are too different for him to do so: he’s already doing so, and isn’t likely to stop even if we were to all agree that they were very different, which we won’t all do. Certainly I’d consider them far too close for sibling names, for example.

For me the larger trouble is the similarity between Simeon and simian. I might instead recommend Silas or Cyrus or Elias or Gideon or Solomon or Leon or Roman or Nolan or Edmund or Eamon or Micah or Josiah or Isaac.

Baby Girl Self, Sister to Hanna, James, and Arty

23 Replies

S. writes:

I hope you choose my question, because I am seriously at my wits end. My husband and I are expecting our fourth child, a girl. We are that crazy couple that picked out names before we conceived, and with the first three it worked perfectly. We have Hanna Elise, James Lee (named after both our mothers) and Arty Nathaniel. We decided some time ago that we both liked Abigail, but we never could settle on a middle name. My husband would like to use Abigail as the middle name, still using it as the primary name, and put the secondary name first (he goes by his middle name, Brady, so it is not strange to him, but I really don’t like this suggestion). Our last name Self is so short, that I cannot find a middle name that flows well that we both like. My husband would prefer a one syllable middle name (because our last name is one syllable) if we put Abigail first. His top pick was Livia Abigail Self. It is pretty on paper and flows alright, but I think most people would think Livia was a nickname, AND it still pushes Abigail into weird second place. I like names with lovely meanings, and I would love a soft, gentle, feminine name. My top picks were: Emmeline, Irene, Cora, Rosalie/Rosaline, Amalie, Ella…

I agree with my husband that none of these sound great with Abigail first, but I am having trouble finding soft, feminine, classic yet not boring names with one syllable.

If you could offer any suggestions I would be very grateful!!

Some of your husband’s preferences are puzzling me. I would in fact avoid one-syllable middle names with a one-syllable surname because of the potential for a choppy sound, but that can just be a matter of personal preference. What puzzles me is that he wants a one-syllable middle name only if the first name is Abigail and not if it’s Livia, when Livia and Abigail have the same rhythm; and he’s campaigning to have Abigail, which is not one syllable, used as the middle name. It seems like it’s setting up this kind of loop:

1. Abigail can be in the first-name position, but only with a one-syllable middle name.
2. None of the one-syllable names work.
3. So we have to put the first name in the middle-name position.
4. But you don’t want that, even though your husband does.
5. So you have to look for a one-syllable middle name that works.

It seems that he would like the solution to be “So we have to put Abigail as the middle name.” But you don’t like that idea. So I’d cut through this fruitless cycle by making two new rules for the name search:

1. The first name will be put in the first-name position.
2. The middle name doesn’t have to be only one syllable.

If your husband’s top pick is Livia Abigail Self, then it seems to me like the choice that makes the most sense is to name her Abigail Livia Self, which has the same rhythm but puts the first name more conveniently in the first-name position. Another that would work with a slightly different rhythm is Abigail Olivia Self.

(Before we go any further, I want to make a note that with initials A._.S., I’m going to be avoiding all middle names starting with S.)

With the rhythm of Abigail ______ Self, I also like four-syllable names with the emphasis on the second syllable:

Abigail Cordelia Self
Abigail Elizabeth Self
Abigail Emilia Self
Abigail Felicity Self
Abigail Livinia Self
Abigail Magnolia Self
Abigail Penelope Self
Abigail Veronica Self
Abigail Victoria Self

I disagree that none of the names on your list sound right with Abigail first. Abigail Irene Self, Abigail Emmeline Self, Abigail Rosaline Self—all of those sound good to me. Your surname is a challenging one (especially combined with another strong L-sound in the first name), and unless you’ve found you routinely call your children by all three names, it seems like an issue that comes up during the naming process and not afterward. Mostly she will be either Abigail Self or maybe Abigail MiddleName if that’s something you tend to do in your family, but not Abigail MiddleName Self to anyone except her paperwork.

I also like the sound of 2-syllable middle names with the emphasis on the second syllable (your choice of Irene is perfect for this), but many of them have strong L sounds that seemed like too much L with the first name and surname (Noelle, Lucille), or start with S (Simone), or have too much S-sound with the surname (Cecile), or seem like they belong to an earlier generation (Nicole), or might feel overused as middle names (Marie).

Abigail Celeste Self
Abigail Eileen Self
Abigail Louise Self

If you both agree that one-syllable middle names are best:

Abigail Eve Self
Abigail Jade Self
Abigail Jane Self
Abigail Jean Self
Abigail June Self
Abigail Kaye Self

A few more possibilities:

Abigail Clarissa Self
Abigail Eleni Self
Abigail Eliza Self
Abigail Ellery Self
Abigail Fiona Self
Abigail Josephine Self
Abigail Julia Self
Abigail Katherine Self
Abigail Linnea Self
Abigail Marian Self
Abigail Miranda Self
Abigail Naomi Self
Abigail Rebecca Self
Abigail Violet Self
Abigail Vivienne Self