Dear Swistle,
My husband and I are excited to be expecting our first baby in April and the sex of the baby will be a surprise! We have a shortlist of good girl names but are stumped on a boy name.
For girls, we like classic names that are now top 100 but not too popular, including Eliza, Josephine, and Audrey. Josephine and Eliza are also middle names on my side of the family, so I like the subtle honoring there.
My husband is named after his paternal grandfather and suggested we could name a boy after one or both of his grandfathers. His dad is named John and mine is named Wesley. These are both nice names that would fit with our girls’ name choices, as we do plan to have more children. Both sets of parents live nearby and will be involved in childcare. The baby will have my husband’s surname (sounds like Shultee). My surname will likely be a second middle name.
My questions/concerns:
1) Does giving a child an honor name that is directly used by living close relatives get confusing? I know men have managed this for years by going by Jr. or some nickname, but I still feel hesitant. This is a bigger issue with John (grandfather plus two great-uncles plus my parents having a dog named Jack) than it is with Wesley. It’s also a much greater honor than any of the women in our families would get with this baby if she were a girl (unfortunately, our mothers have names that would sound a little strange on a baby born today).
2) If we abandon using John or Wesley as first names, what else should we consider?
Others that have made our shortlist (though none feel 100% right) are:
Brody (Too 2010s? Would this clash with names for future kids?)
Ezra
Micah (Although we are religious, we worry this might sound a little overtly biblical- this applies to Ezra to some extent)
Thomas (and some other classic boy names that are like it- but I know so many people with this name that it doesn’t feel very fresh to me)
Stylistically, names like Oliver or Theodore would fit well if they weren’t so terribly trendy, particularly where we live.
Thank you for your votes and suggestions!
Allie
Oh! I can give one data point from my own personal experience! One of my children has the same first name as my dad and, when my kids were younger, my parents lived nearby and we saw them often and they babysat the kids and so forth. And what we realized was that only one person was affected by the duplicate name, because only my mom calls both my dad and my son by their first names—and even she only used my dad’s first name when talking with her peers. So for example, if we were in a family gathering, there was no issue: we all called my dad Grandpa or Dad, and we called the child by his first name. In that context, even my mom would refer to her husband as Grandpa or Dad when talking about him or to him, depending on who she was talking about/to him in front of. And if my parents were babysitting the kids, everyone called my son by his first name and referred to my dad as Grandpa, including my mom. But if my mom were talking with one of her friends, then she would have to say “[Name]…oh, I mean HUSBAND-Name…” or “[Name]…oh, I mean GRANDSON-Name…”—but that wasn’t a big deal either, because it was usually clear already from context: i.e., either they were discussing their husbands/marriages or they were discussing their grandchildren.
It can get more confusing in a situation where more people in the family have the name: for example, if the child has a grandfather AND an uncle with the name, which later happened in our family. But we all just refer to the uncle as Uncle [Name] when there’s any doubt—even those of us whose uncle he is not. It’s no big deal. And in your case it sounds like it’s GREAT-uncles, and it seems like their names would come up even less often.
The dog named Jack seems…less relevant. If the dog is a puppy, and so likely has many more happy years with us, it’s possible I might take it into account—but I doubt it. Especially because I want to encourage you to call the child John, not Jack, and I’m hoping the dog’s name will help me with that. I think you are likely to find that the name John has an unexpected/overlooked freshness on a baby.
But if you would like to lean on those issues as reasons not to use John, you have my full support because: I think you should use YOUR dad’s name. The baby will already have the surname of your husband’s family and, if the baby is named for his grandfather because his father was, then he is also following a naming pattern from your husband’s family. Let it at least be a name from your side of the family. The only thing I don’t love is the repeated -ey/-ee sound of the ending with the surname, but it doesn’t feel like a dealbreaker to me. (This is the kind of thing where I soothe my mind by leafing through a yearbook and seeing HOW VERY MANY people have names with repeated endings: it’s the sort of thing that stands out a lot more during the Naming Phase than it does later in life.)
If you decide to abandon the grandfather-name idea (and it would bother me too that there is no similar honor that would work for any of the names of the women in the family) (and DID bother me too when I went ahead and did it anyway for one of my own kids), then I would like to start by crossing Brody right off your list. I think it’s an outlier name for you. If you find it’s your favorite and you are pining to use it, I suggest making little imaginary sibling groups to make sure you can find combinations you like with it.
Ezra and Micah do tip a little more biblical than what you’ve got going on with your girl-name list, but I think they work fine and are not startling. I agree that Oliver and Theodore are better coordinated, but I see your point about the popularity—and it’s pretty common for parents to have a different naming style for boy names than for girl names. More possibilities to consider:
Calvin
Charles
Edmund
Elliot
Emmett
Everett
Franklin
Frederick
George
Grant
Ian
Jasper
Joseph
Julian
Leo
Louis
Miles
Reid
Simon
Warren
You are probably already thinking of this, but my FAILURE to think thoroughly about it when naming my firstborn has caused me to mention it on this blog whenever I feel the smallest impulse: be careful when naming your firstborn that you’re not using a name that rules out names you’d like to use later. For example! Let’s say you would rather not repeat any initials, and your absolute top favorite girl name is Eliza—then it would be good, if this baby is a boy, to remember NOT to use Edmund, Elliot, Emmett, Ezra, etc., unless you like one of those names BETTER for a boy than you like Eliza for a girl; and if your absolute top favorite girl name is Josephine, then you’d want to be careful not to use John or Joseph for a boy. If you use Ezra/Eliza, does it rule out using Eliza/Ezra, because of the repeated sounds? Oh, and even things like, if you name a baby Wesley, would it bother you to have the similar -ey ending of Audrey?
Name update:
Hello Swistle,
Thank you to you and your readers for weighing in on boy names for us! We appreciated the perspectives of those who used honor names in their families and the additional suggestions that people gave. We did end up having a baby boy! We named him Wesley John after his grandfathers. Our families were delighted and we think the name suits him well!
Many thanks!
Would you use Joseph or Elijah to honor the women in your family?
I have the same name as my grandmother and it’s never caused any issues at all. As Swistle mentioned, sometimes my grandpa or other adult relatives (great-aunts/uncles, my parent’s cousins, or even family friends) would have to clarify by saying “Granny ____” or using their nickname for her that I don’t use, but overall, no biggie! I love the connection to her and would really encourage you to use John/Wesley for your son.
If I were naming him, I’d go with John Wesley Shultee and call him Wes :)
Actually, having said “Wes Shultee” out loud I see how difficult it is to say… I’d like to change my vote to be in favor of Wesley John Shultee, no nickname :)
If you’d like the chance to use both honor names separately in the event of a second son, I’d vote for Thomas Wesley Shultee for this baby, and ___ John Shultee for a potential future son. If Thomas isn’t feeling like “the name” then I think another name with the same rhythm would work:
Bennett; Bennett Wesley Shultee (Bennett goes especially well with your girl names, I think, without being too popular)
Hugo; Hugo Wesley Shultee
Ethan; Ethan Wesley Shultee
Calvin, and Simon from Swistle’s list also stand out to me
You may be aware of this already, but John Wesley was the founder of United Methodism. If I encountered a child named John Wesley Shultee, I would assume his parents were devout Methodists. Since you are already wary of Biblical names, I would be mindful that this combo Carrie’s similar religious vibes!
I had the exact same thought. John Wesley strikes me as a *very* religious name.
What about Jonathan West Shultee? Really close to both John and Wesley so the honor name is clear but not on the nose for either. This buys you some space for the girl honor names in the future and gives you a chance at a different nickname… Jonathan nn Nate or Nathan? Nate Shultee / Nathan Shultee?
I agree Oliver and Theodore feel like your style based on your girl names. What about…
Samuel
Lucas
Benjamin
Oscar
Simon
Miles
Spencer
Zachary
Timothy
Maxwell
I also love Julian from Swistle’s list
Graham Wesley
Grant Wesley
Leo Wesley
Gordon Wesley
Duncan Wesley
Micah Wesley
Nicholas Wesley nn Nico
Colin Wesley
Cole Wesley
Samuel Wesley
Bennett Wesley
Robert Wesley (nn Rob?)
(Or the middle name Weston or West in honor of Wesley)
All nice names, and none of them rule out the three girl’s names you mentioned as favorites.
I would use Wesley over John, just because it’s from your side of the family and the baby will have Dad’s surname.
But fwiw, we were considering honoring a grandfather named John when I was pregnant with my second. As there was already an uncle named John (called Johnny by family to differentiate him from his dad) we would have called him Jack if we’d used that name. We also considered using John as a middle (Andrew John, for a grandmother Andrea plus grandfather John) or John-related names– Jonathan, Ian, and Zane for firsts. In the end, the only one of these ideas that made the short list was Ian, and then we didn’t have boy. I still have a fondness for Ian, though. I see it’s on Swistle’s suggestion list. From that list my second and third favorites are Louis and Simon.
I agree with Swistle about John as a honor name. Its lovely on a baby boy but I think your family needs representation too!
On Parks and Recreation, one of Leslie Knope’s triplets is named Stephen Westley (Westley like from The Princess Bride). Westley is considered a variation of Wesley. Stephen is underused in my opinion and I like the alliteration with Shultee.
Stephen Westley Shultee
Other suggestions!
James (similar to John)
Noah (similar to Ezra)
Alexander
Gabriel
Wyatt
John offers so many variants that I think that could be a fun route to go! Ian, Ivan, Evan, Shane, Sean, Zane, Jackson or Jonathan are all wonderful picks. Or maybe a similar sounding choice such as Jonah or Jonas? Baby would have a subtle honor name while having his own name at the same time. Weston or West are nice Wesley adjacent choices too. (We have an abundance of Johns to honor as well and we are going this route by choosing Zane)
I also agree that John Wesley comes off as very religious (founder of Methodist church) to me and also very cowboy outlaw (John Wesley Hardin) but not sure how familiar others are with the association, especially when most people won’t know his full name.
Good luck and please update us!
I wanted to add: after thinking more about you having Ezra and Micah on your list, I really want to push for Jonah! It feels John adjacent (and can also work as an honor for Josephine!) but fits nicely with your boy name style and while yes, it is religious, I wouldn’t automatically assume a Jonah is super religious; it’s just a nice name :)
Oh goodness, I really like the first comment to use Joseph or Elijah to honour Josephine or Eliza! That does of course rule out a sister Josephine or Eliza, so I echo Swistle’s caution to not rule out your absolute fave for one gender. And would those ‘unusable’ grandma first names – could those be tweaked for a boy name? Family tweaks are my favourite style. As in Connie could be Conrad, Darlene could be Dean, Jill could be Gilbert?
I am Team Wesley. For so very many reasons. And personally I don’t think Wes ‘Shultee’ is too awkward. We have a one-syllable S-surname and I find any one-syllable S-first names just aren’t ideal but that second syllable really keeps your mouth moving.
If you have you choose from your list, I love Audrey and Ezra together.
I have a child that shares a name with his Uncle. Which is a situation where both would go by their first names in family gatherings (rather than Grampa or whatever). And it’s a non issue. Occasionally I call my kid “My First name” but it’s so rare because context makes it irrelevant.
My kids all have honor names – first and middle – and it gives me great satisfaction. However we tried to avoid our parents (kid’s grandparents) because of fairness and the thought that one of them would have expectations and be hurt if not included. My family’s names are the first names because husband got the last name but I don’t think my husband noticed :). My third kid shares a middle name with husband/dad and great grandfather which is also his grandfathers first name. I have mild regret about this because Grandpa preened about the name in a gross way.
So it depends a bit on the people involved. I wouldn’t use paternal grandpa without maternal grandpa however I would consider maternal grandpa without paternal grandpa because you kid has paternal grandpas last name. So Wesley Joseph is fine, Wesley John is fine. But John Thomas is too much dads family, not enough moms family.
My extended family has lots of sons named after their dads, including one name used over 3 generations (all living for my whole childhood). The “grandpa/dad” thing helped for that 3-Gen name, and even extended family members could distinguish by calling family member “Uncle Dave” vs “David” (his son), for instance. Also lots of “Big Mike/Little Mike” distinctions. It is doable, if it’s what you want!
Your girl names are very similar to the ones on my list- great taste ;) we used John as a middle name and I have to say that it feels so fresh as a first name!!
Boy names I’ve liked:
Walter
Arthur
Joseph
Anthony
Frederick
OH and Conrad which I see in another comment. LOVE
For what it’s worth, I am named after one of my great-great grandmothers, and my oldest daughter is named after one of her great-great grandmothers. The symmetry was pleasing to me (and we liked both the idea of family names and the specific name). It would not have occurred to me to gender-flop this micro-tradition to name a son after one of his great-great grandparents, had I had a son, likely because my husband is not (to my knowledge) named after one of his great-great grandparents. (To the extent that we like family names, we might have gone that direction incidentally, but as I’m mentally rifling through the options, I think it’s unlikely.) All of which is to say, I think it’s fine to do this specific thing for a son but not for a daughter, although I don’t have a great rationale (and normally I am extremely hype-y about gender stuff in naming–never considered taking my husband’s name, for instance). But only if you want to (i.e. you definitely love the idea of using John/Wesley).
I second the person above who suggested Joseph or Elijah for a boy to name them for the women in your family, but only if you’d be seriously bummed if you didn’t get to use those names for girls if you ended up having only boys.
I wouldn’t worry too much about overlapping names. In my family we have a kiddo named “Sebastian” with an uncle named “Sébastien” and a second cousin with the female version. (The name isn’t actually Sebastian – just trying to find an anonymized version.) Context has always been very very clear about who is who – turns out there’s not a ton of overlap in sentences about a baby, a 40 year old man, and a 40 year old woman with the obviously feminine version of the name. (Not that this stopped a great- uncle of the baby from trying to unilaterally impose a random nick name on my son to “avoid confusion”.)
I always think Alistair makes a great alternative to Oliver … but maybe it’s too close to your own name.
Other names that are similar in style to Oliver and Theodore, in my mind at least, that are familiar but not common:
Laurence
Edward (or Edwin!)
Jonathan (great suggestion with the bonus of subtle honouring)
Nathaniel
Philip
I do really like Brodie (that spelling only), but I had an elderly relative by that name so it doesn’t seem at all timestamped to me.
Ok, for the first time ever, I skipped reading every single name suggestion and came straight to the comments to address this: “My husband is named after his paternal grandfather and suggested we could name a boy after one or both of his grandfathers” and “It’s also a much greater honor than any of the women in our families would get with this baby if she were a girl (unfortunately, our mothers have names that would sound a little strange on a baby born today).” His suggestion is that a boy get named entirely after his side of the family, and your side and the women get … nothing? That seems incredibly unfair. I would find the name of a female relative and use it. Bonus points if you can use it for a boy. Joseph and Elijah up top are great suggestions. Between the 2 moms and 4 grandmas, assuming they each have a first, middle, maiden, and married last name, there are 24 (potential) possibilities (obviously not all of them will work for a first name). Grandma Shirley becomes Sheldon. Deborah becomes Delbert. Barbara becomes Barrett. Or use one of their names for a middle name for a girl, even if it’s not your style. I think the warm feeling you’ll get by using a family name will outweigh your concerns regarding style (especially in the middle name spot!)
I just hate the assumption that his family (especially the males) gets all the choices and your side is left with nothing.
I forget there’s a Micah in the Bible and I’m in the choir! lol. So unless he’s got sibs named Abraham, Noah, Ruth, and/or Mary, I wouldn’t worry. Micah’s fairly obscure as prophets and judges go.
Both John and Wesley would work well, imo. Don’t worry about the Jack the dog. Just don’t use Jack as a nickname for your son. You can always use Johnny, his initials, or any of the variants on John instead. DH & his dad share a name (actually, it’s his dad’s middle, but he uses that almost exclusively) and honestly, there’s not that much confusion. If there might be, we typically use signifiers like Jr or Sr, or the blind one, or whatever. My name is also a frequently used family name, but we all have different nicknames. Zippy’s my favorite nn. Apparently, the name fit, lol. She died when I was very small and I don’t think we ever met.
I like the Elijah or Joseph idea too; they’d also be subtle honor names.
Why not use the grandfathers’s middle names for a baby boy? This would honor them while being “fair” to the female family members (who will only get honored via their middles).
Also, it avoids the repeating names issue.
Otherwise, I love Jonah Wesley Shutlee. Honors both grandfathers, adding just one letter to the names and avoiding name repeats and the John Wesley association.
I would put Wesley or Johnin the middle and pick a novel first. There seems a sort of symmetry in girls firsts being family middles and boys middles being family firsts.
Theodore and Josephine were both on the short lists we took to the hospital (and we came home with a little Josephine!). The other boy’s name on the short list was August (nn Auggie or Gus). Our long list included (in no particular order) Henry, Hugo, Angus, Frederick, Cecil, Thaddeus, Albert, and Evander.