Dear Swistle—
This should (hopefully) be a quick-ish question! To cut to the chase, my partner and I are expecting a baby boy in mid February and are, as of recently, concerned with 1) the usability (period) of our current top choice, and 2) the name’s usability alongside our daughter’s (significantly less whimsical) name.
I’m Lara and my partner is Jamie. Our 1.5 year old daughter is Dorothy May (called Dorothy, Dot, or Dottie depending on the day). Dorothy was named after my grandmothers (Dora and Katherine called Kathy) and Jamie’s mother (Maria called May). She has Jamie’s surname—which sounds like Flower without the F—as will this baby. For a middle name this time around, we are set on Gus or Gustaf after Jamie’s grandfather (his full name was Gustaf but went exclusively by Gus).
The baby’s potential first name—our current frontrunner—is Theseus.
A few questions. One, is this name usable? Or is it too mythological, whimsical, grand (etc)? We love the length, melody, and fact that it can be shortened to Theo (or even Teddy maybe) if our son decides it’s too ‘out there’ when he’s older. We don’t think the Greek myth/hero association is an issue necessarily, however, we are aware that it might be too much weight for a kid to carry. We’re also aware that the name shares similar sounds/roots with Dorothy—though is pretty stylistically different—and cannot decide if this is an issue or not. (If the baby mostly goes by Theo, I see no problem with Dottie and Theo together, but who knows.)
We love the name but feel we’ve entered an inescapable echo chamber, here, and would appreciate external (non-familial) advice. Any insight you or your readers have would be helpful! If not Theseus/Theo, we would return to our initial lists. Mine is: Atticus, Cyrus/Cy, Jacoby, Tobias/Toby. Jamie’s is: Leonard/Leo, Francis/Frankie, Felix. This will definitely be our last kid so potential future sibling names aren’t a part of the equation. And if the baby were a girl we would probably have used Beatrice.
Thanks for all your help :)
Lara and Jamie
I started by checking the Social Security Administration‘s database to see the current usage of the name Theseus: in 2020 (the 2021 figures should be out this May), the name was given to 22 new baby boys. So it is not unused, but it is very rare.
Next I gave it a day or two to settle in. I pictured a classroom of second-graders, and imagined that one of them was named Theseus. At the grocery store, I looked at store employees and various fellow shoppers and imagined finding out that one of them was named Theseus. I mentioned the name to the kids to see what they thought. I imagined bringing my child to the doctor’s office and saying “This is Theseus; he has a 2:00 appointment.” Or calling to make him an appointment, and giving the name Theseus. I imagined a man at Starbucks, ordering a drink and giving the barista the name Theseus.
I associate the name with mythology, of course—but more importantly, I don’t associate it with ANYTHING ELSE: there is no other Theseus in my experience to dilute that association. “Theseus—like the mythological king, like the Ship of Theseus, like the guy who killed the minotaur” is the only clarifying reference. Like Odysseus, like Sisyphus, like Prometheus—these are mythology names, and for whatever reason we don’t see them used much for current children. (Though perhaps now that we’ve dug out many of the less-familiar biblical names and made them mainstream, mythology will be next. I can picture using Perseus/Percy. And I know a child named Athena.)
I find it difficult to say with the surname: Theseus Flower-without-the-F.
It reminds me of the word thesis.
Here is my own opinion: I would not use it, and I would not want to have that name for myself—but I don’t think it’s unusable. (And how else do we bring fresh names into usage, except by USING THEM?) I do think it is the sort of name where the parents would need to not only tolerate but WELCOME a steady stream of reactions and questions. It’s not a name that can be given casually: it’s an attention-getting name, and everyone who hears it will know that the parents knew that when they chose it.
I think it helps that it is somewhat similar to the popular name Theodore. I think it helps that some people will know the name from mythology, so they won’t be starting from scratch. I think it is absolutely CRUCIAL that it works to use the nickname Theo, in case the child is not the sort of person who enjoys having an attention-getting name.
But I think it would work better as a spectacular middle name. And in fact, what I would suggest is swapping the names you’re considering: Gustaf (or just Gus) Theseus Flower-without-the-F. Dorothy and Gustaf; Dot and Gus. It bothers me that then the first AND last names are from one parent’s side of the family (that also bothers me if it’s the middle and last)—but Dottie and Gus is so good.
Name update:
Dear Swistle—
Happy August and hope you’re doing well!
I wrote to you back in January about naming our son (top choice at the time was Theseus), brother to Dorothy, surname Flower-without-the-F.
Well. It’s been almost half a year since that letter, and I realized the other day we never updated you on the outcome of our mini conundrum.
Our son was born in February and is almost 6 months (wild!). We were very inspired by your readers comments—thanks immensely for all the assistance—and ended up choosing a suggestion we hadn’t previously considered.
We scrapped Theseus (just felt a bit too out there after reading your note), and went with Ignatius instead! Ignatius James is his full name.
We switched the middle to honor my father, as per your suggestion about balancing honor names. James also happens to be a fun nod to Jamie’s name, so it worked perfectly.
We’ve actually been calling him Gus—trying to make it stick! Oftentimes he’s also Iggy. Dorothy is smitten. As are we :)
Thanks again for all your wonderful advice. We appreciate it.
Our best,
Lara and Jamie
I also love the idea of swapping middle and first! You could even use August, Angus, Augustine, Fergus, or Augustus with nn Gus which would still honor your relative.
Dorothy and August
and
Dorothy and Fergus
are particularly adorable.
Yes, I was coming to suggest August or Augustus, which are classical without some of the challenges of Theseus. I would use Theseus for a middle. I think it could also be hard for kids to pronounce–either your son could have trouble saying his own name, or his friends could. With lots of kids using F for Th, it could sound like Fece-us which is not a very nice thing to be called!
Normally I’d be all for Theseus — I love bringing back historical names that have fallen out of use, like I seriously tried to talk my husband into naming our oldest Athelstan — but the contrast with Dorothy is bothering me enough that I don’t think I would do it. When I imagine a Christmas card (or other family letter if you don’t do Christmas!) signed “Lara, Jamie, Dorothy, and Theseus” it just doesn’t work for me.
I had the same idea as Swistle, that Gustaf/Gus as the first and Theseus in the middle would be great! From your list of other names you like, I also LOVE Felix with Dorothy, they both feel the same kind of cool vintage to me.
We knew a little Athelstan! I was unfamiliar with it. My kid pronounced it Apple stand.
I think swapping the names is a v good idea. Theseus is a LOT of name to saddle your kid with. It’s a lot compared to his sister’s name, it’s a lot imagining saying it at Starbucks.
I live in a large southern city. In my child’s public elementary school, there are children named Apple, Lemon, Owie, Phoenix, Nyx, and Thaddeus. (I also have a dear adult friend named Thaddeus – which sounds similar to Theseus – and fits him perfectly.) Because we’re in the south and an urban neighborhood, there are also a wide variety of names from different cultures as well as southern classics like double names and surnames as first names. Theseus would work just fine here – my 4th grader who did a mythology unit in class last year said it’s “super cool”.
Of course your mileage may vary if you live in a different fort of place. But I say go for it if you love it.
Cosign on this! My kids go to school with Titus, Athena, Marigold, Sheriff, and Zeke. If this is OP’s naming environment too, I think it’s no problem.
If Theseus was a name from your side of the family, or something significant to you, it might lean me to encourage you to use it. But if your plan is to call him Theo or Teddy anyways, I’d defer to another name to get there (Edmund, Edwin would be cute with Dorothy to get to Teddy.) Or go with Theodore or Theo and call him Theseus as your family nickname? Or use Felix and call him Feo? I do love Gus. Is there a name from your side or your life that could lead to Gus? Like the suggestions from others?
Sorry, I’m on the wouldn’t pass my ‘would i like to wear that name my whole life?’ test group.
I don’t know if Feo is a common nickname, but just wanted to note that it means ugly in Spanish. Wouldn’t be my nn choice living in the US at this time.
lol. Wow, I had no idea. Obviously I agree to avoid that nickname! Was just thinking it’s close to Theo. My nephew used to pronounce his name Feo when he was younger…
It’s not unusable, even if no kids were named it last year, so long as you don’t mind wildly different naming styles in your kids. I know a family who actually did something similar. Think Doreen and Athena.
I’d probably still go for something like Gustav or August Theseus nn Gus or Theo. Probably not Angus or Gus, though. Gus Theseus rhymes in my accent, and that’s not my cup of tea.
One of the characters in the ‘Fantastic Beasts’ movies is also called Theseus (Theseus Scamander, brother of Newt Scamander), so that is another association that came up for me. Not sure whether that would make a difference, though! I agree with Swistle that the name is usable, but that it could definitely raise some eyebrows.
I like it best as a middle. I’m trying to imagine calling the kids for dinner, and the names blend together very easily – “Dorothy! Theseus! Dortheseus!” (Unless you only use nicknames, as Dottie and Theo work well.)
Gustaf is adorable. And it’s a family name! I would not pass up such a perfect opportunity!
This is a lot of name, and I worry about little ones who often pronounce “th” as “f.”
Ooof, yeah, it could become “feces” pretty fast. That in itself makes it a dealbreaker to me.
I’m not super knowledgeable about mythology so the name doesn’t lean strictly that way to me. I don’t dislike it. I even like it more than Theodore. You clearly love it, go for it. I also love Gus.
My kids are grown and the one I agonized over using an unusual name for has one in every single one of her classes, sports teams, etc. The one that had three of the same name in his first daycare has since not known another. You never know. Go with what you love.
I also am not super knowledgeable about mythology, but like the name. Especially if you were going to use nicknames the majority of the time.
I love everything Swistle has had to say. I will only add that Theseus reminds me a lot of Thaddeus and wonder if you might like it.
I like a lot of the alternatives Swistle and others have suggested– using Theodore, Thaddeus, or switching up the first and middle for Gustaf Theseus. I also like pretty much all the names on your second string lists, but Toby and Felix especially.
Tobias, nn Toby, I meant.
How is Theseus pronounced? It is not intuitive to me, nor is the spelling. To give a kid a name that’s not easily spelled or pronounced seems like a recipe for challenges through life. I like all your other options as well as the idea of using Gus as a first name. Could do Augusten, Augustine, or August if you want something more substantial than Gus and use Gus as the nickname.
it’s THEE-see-us, where the “thee” part is a soft “th” (like “three” without the R), not like the old fashioned pronoun “thee” or “these”. I am not sure if we are allowed to post links here, but if you look it up on Forvo, there is an American English recording that is exactly the way I have always heard it.
I like the name, but it would be one of those “brave” choices. You could be setting a new trend, bringing Theseus back into use! Or your kid could dislike the uniqueness and get sick of fielding questions about the Ship of Theseus all the time. I agree that it’s probably safer as a middle name!
If not Theseus, do you like Theophilus? Similar length, melody and grandeur without the mythology … Possibly more intuitive pronunciation … Still gives the potential for Theo and Teddy (perhaps even Phil/Pip?) … Might be more similar to Dorothy in origin/meaning if that matters, but not as much as Theodore and for two children using different nicknames it might be a nice link?
While the combo of Theseus and Dorothy would bother me some personally I wouldn’t see it as deal breaker, it’s not like they’re going to spend the rest of their lives living together or being introduced together.
And if I met a baby Theseus I just assume the parents had some parents or grandparents of Greek descent since those names are still used culturally there but in my experience they’re usually pretty delighted to see other people use the names as well. I have a Greek friend who shared photos of my own baby Ulysses as baby Odysseus to her grandparents and they were tickled by it.
And aside from pronunciation issues the two biggest responses I get are “Oh! Like Ulysses S. Grant!” Or asking if my husband is Hispanic, apparently the name still has some usage in South America (my bff has an uncle Ulisses and my moms coworker has a toddler nephew with the name as well, both SA immigrants)
So I’d say go for it!
Doesn’t pass the ‘would I want the name for myself test’, but I FREAKING LOVE swistle’s suggestion of flipping them and going with Gustaf Theseus nn Gus! Gus and Dot! Dorothy and Gustaf! IT’S PERFECTION. And super cool middle name. Please use Gustaf Theseus!!
I think it’s just a bit too much of a name to saddle a kid with but that’s just my opinion. It doesn’t pass the “would I want this name myself” test for me plus for some reason I just keep hearing “feces” everytime I read it. I’m sorry, I don’t mean to tear the name down! I do really like the idea others have mentioned of going with Gus Theseus or Gustaf Theseus instead. Gus and Dot are great together! Or August “Gus” is very sweet too!
Also I just want to throw out Ignatius as a suggestion. It feels kinda clunky cool and might fit your style. Ignatius and Dorothy. Ignatius Gustaf. Ignatius “Nat” and Dorothy “Dot” or Iggy and Dottie. I think Gus could still even work for iGnatiUS. Lots of nickname options!
We have an August Ignatius :-)
So a biased vote for some form of Gus in the first name spot. Also, I feel like Theseus is one of those names people will forget the *exact* name often. Even with August he gets called Austin and I always wonder why people so easily make that same mistake. We always assume unique names will stand out enough for people to remember but I guess if there is a more common sub people make that mistake. So maybe he might get called Thaddeus by mistake his whole life.
I think I reached the same conclusion as Swistle on Theseus and Dorothy together. But have you thought about Thaddeus? Does that appeal?
i don’t like the way it blends together with dorothy, and wouldn’t want the name for myself, but i think it is useable if you are very attached.
beatrice being your girls’ name option made me wonder if you’d like benedict nn ben?
Having older kids and teens influences my opinion. I have found I have little (no?) Influence on how my kids end up using their names. The result from me is that two kids picked nicknames I didn’t expect and in doing so ended up with very similar sounding names.
For you that means not just considering Dottie and Theo (your choice) but also Dorothy and Theo (potential), which I find incredibly similar.
I’ve decided with my kids that it doesn’t really matter (because the age of taking name ownership is also the age where you stop being described as part of a sibling pair). But it is an issue I never imagined when they were small.
I do like Perseus and Percy and Dottie are similar but without the common th and O sounds.
It also bothers me.that Dorothy comes from Dorothea (and twins with Theodora), which is connected to Theo in my mind. You might like that. I find it bothersome that Theo isn’t short for the matching piece (Theodore).
I like it.
Yes, it’s a bit out there, so you’ll have to be ok with questions and spelling.
Your willingness and established pattern of using nicknames helps immensely to make it workable. He’ll have options, and if a childhood lisp makes it problematic, you can just move to the nickname.
This really depends where you live. We’re in suburban Chicago, in a very mixed area (racially and religiously). In my kids’ classroom, the name “Theseus” wouldn’t seem like an unusual choice at all. We have (to my knowledge) not a single repeat name in the entire grade, with lots of beautiful names from all over the world.
Dorothy is an English name of Greek origin (Dorothea), so this actually makes sense to me as a sibling set. Particularly if he’s using a typical English nickname, like Ted or Theo (which also comes from Greek).
Sound-wise, they do hit my ear a bit strangely together. I think it’s the repeat TH-EE sounds. Dorothy-and-Theseus. Dorothy and Theo match so well in style that they sound almost boring, but I do think it works. Ted or Teddy has a more unusual, vintage sound to it.
Dorothy and Teddy. Dottie and Ted. I really like that sibling set.
Anyway, I think it’s entirely usable, and I quite like the name. Best of luck!
The ending of Dorothy and beginning of Theseus are the same. I hadn’t really realized that until now! I’d end up blending them together and calling the kids “Dortheus.” Which happens sometimes with siblings; adults get tongue tied and the names mix together, but to have the common “thee” sound makes it easier for that to happen.
I am a big fan of something like “Augustyn Theseus,” which is all kinds of distinguished and perfect. I think Theseus IS usable in the first name position, it’s just not a name I would want for myself, as where Augustyn Theseus is. Either way, he is sure to have a fun name! Good luck!
I admit that my first thought of Theseus as a name was one of surprise and for about a day, I thought it was not usable.
But then I thought about all of the other names that, just a few years ago, were deemed not usable and yet now are very popular options. According to the US records, Athena (girls) and Orion (boys) has exploded in popularity over the last ten years. Apollo, Ares, Achilles, Adonis, Atlas, Paris are in the top 1000 names. And, really, as more and more parents want something classical yet unique, these type of names will be used more often.
So I say, if you want to name your son Theseus Gustaf, go right ahead! It is a “big” name but really, Theodore is a “big” name, too, — we are just used to it. I have a son named Benjamin, but that felt too “big” for him as a baby and toddler so we call him Benji. This is why many parents give their babies and younger children family nicknames. It helps a child “grow in” the big names.
I’m here to support Theseus “Theo” Gustaf.
Dorothy and Theseus, Dottie and Theo, Dot and Thee
And now I’m getting excited about little a few Cadmus, Evander, Icarus, and Zephyr or Acantha, Calliope, Echo, and Pallas running around the school yards in a few years!
I want to say go ahead and use it. After all there are children out there named Odin and Atlas and Athena, and I’d be more comfortable using Theseus than an actual god name. But yet it doesn’t pass the would-I-use-it test. Neither do any of those other names I listed though.
I feel like you and your husband both like Roman names (Atticus, Felix, Tobias), there must be some common ground you can find. Marius? Darius? Lucius? Claudius? Quintus?
Would either of you like Phineas? Dorothy and Phineas, Dottie and Finn.
We know a family whose oldest has a name similar to Dorothy, maybe slightly more popular. Their son is named Titus. And people ask about it every time they introduce their kids. Every time. It’s just such a striking mismatch, a wild style difference. This family says “Titus is the only name we could agree on” and that’s that. we were at a class party and I heard them explain Titus three times.
My sister has two girls, one with a top 100 classic girls name, the other is Saylor. She has to explain how she chose Saylor on occasion, so it’s not like every sibling set with divergent names has this issue. But I think Theseus would be like Titus, where people cannot help but ask “Is Theseus a family name?”
As a sibset I like the idea of a Frankie to go with Dottie, second favorite would be a Lennie.
I must have missed this post originally but as the mother of an Ignatius (and Ulysses haha) I LOVE this name update!
I’ve recently been name crushing on Gus as a nickname for Ignatius, so it makes me so happy to see someone actually using it!