Dear Swistle community,
Thanks for considering my question! I am particularly eager to hear your thoughts as I am a solo mama by choice. Thus I have both all the power and all the responsibility in naming this kiddo (due to arrive early July, sex unknown). I have thought a lot about names for a long time, but have kept my lists private during pregnancy (I didn’t want a name I ultimately loved to be colored by close family’s opinions) and have had a couple names rise to the top. However, I’m feeling a lot of uncertainty committing to my boy name without getting some outside input from some name nerds – I’d love to hear your thoughts!
My last name is the month we are currently in (rhymes with “bay”) [note from Swistle: this email is from last month]. Given the shortness of my last name, I am very partial to a 3 syllable first name (that’s the case for my first name and I’ve liked it). For a girl I’m about 95% set on Josephine. Joseph is a family name and while I don’t want to have a “the third” for a boy, I do like this version as a girl’s name. I also really love that it gives the kiddo a lot of options in both length, style and “girliness” as they grow (Josephine, Josie, Jo, etc.). For middle names I’m considering Marion (a derivation of another family name) and Juniper (just love it, the sound, and the nature connotation).
With all that context here is my real question/conundrum. The boy name I’ve been holding on to all pregnancy is Orion. I like that it is short in letters, but has 3 syllables, I like that it is the constellation I can always find in the sky, and I think that it may be in that sweet spot of not too common, but also not too unique. But this is where I’m not sure –
Concerns:
1) will people hear it constantly as “ryan” leading the kid to have a lifetime of correction people,
2) is it common enough that people will pronounce it correctly (rather than or-ee-on) (I live in New England if that matters).
3) I like the nickname option Ori, however I am not Jewish and don’t want to appropriate
4) I’m not too up on my Greek classics – but the story of the hunter Orion is…not the most positive.
Most likely middle name is Thomas (a family name).
Other boy names on my list:
Finnian or FinniganGideon
Brendan
Callum
Solomon
Theodore
This is my first child. I am unsure if I will have another, so for now just want to go with what works for this kiddo.
Thanks for your thoughts and perspectives on whether Orion will cause problems and whether there are other contenders I should be considering! For what it’s worth I have Irish heritage and am often drawn to that type of name (other than these of course).
Oh! Coincidentally, I have light experience with TWO boys named Orion/O’Ryan (one of each—and it’s interesting to me how two names pronounced the same can have such STRONGLY different style feelings): one was the younger sibling of a child we had some playdates with long ago, and the other was the son of a woman I worked with for awhile. So I can tell you what my own experience was.
First issue: The first time I heard the name Orion/O’Ryan in passing, I did mis-hear the name—not as Ryan, but just in a general not-being-able-to-catch-what-the-name-was kind of way. When I heard the name of the second Orion/O’Ryan, my experience with the first Orion/O’Ryan helped me hear it, and I only wondered if it were Orion or O’Ryan.
Second issue: I’m interested to hear from commenters if anyone would have thought to pronounce it OR-ree-on: I’m so familiar with the pronunciation like the constellation that it took me a second to even understand how it could be pronounced another way. My guess is that this is a non-issue: that even if someone DID once in a while have a little neuron misfire and say OR-ree-on, it wouldn’t be often enough to be annoying.
Third issue: I don’t know enough about this (particularly if it’s a nickname rather than the given name Ori), and am hoping we have commenters who know more.
Fourth issue: For those who need to brush up on Orion mythology, two of his more famous attributes are (1) hunter and (2) rapist. The hunting thing will be highly subjective: some people see hunting as killing things for the cruel fun of it, others see it as participating in nature as God intended, and there’s pretty much every view in between. In Orion’s case, one of the stories of his death is that he was such an avid creature-killer that he had to be stopped by another deity before he killed all the animals on earth—so that doesn’t feel to me as if it falls into the “killing respectfully and gratefully and only when necessary for survival” type of hunting; it’s the “killing living things unnecessarily/wastefully for fun and sport” type of hunting.
The rape story is unfortunate; on the other hand, so many male deities have a story that involves rape. Not that that makes it better, but it’s not something that stands out as particular to Orion—er, not that that makes it better, either.
And there’s one of Orion’s origin stories, which is that he was born because a bunch of male gods peed into a bull hide and buried it. My guess is that most people aren’t familiar with that story, but it’s common to do a mythology unit in school at some point, so there may be an uncomfortable few weeks. Still, speaking for myself, I was very keen on mythology in high school, and I didn’t remember this little tidbit at all. And when I encountered the two O’Ryans/Orions in real life, the ONLY thing I thought of was the constellation.
I wonder if you would like the name Oliver. Three syllables, only one more letter than Orion, and the nickname Ollie. More names that came to mind:
Calvin
Darrien
Declan
Elliot
Everett
Frederick
Nolan
Simon
Sullivan
I wonder if you would like Jory…sounds like Ori, but Welsh rather than Hebrew, and connected to Joseph without being a 3rd. (I think technically it’s derived from George, which might dilute the connection to Joseph for me, but not for most)
Or would you like Orson?
I don’t love Orion. The underlying mythology would bother me, and the one Orion I know is in a family of Jayden/Kayden/Jaxon type names and so I think of it in that category….although obviously that’s heavily based on my own experience and might not apply at all in New England. I do have a daughter who was born during a meteor shower, and our birthday tradition is to go out and find a shooting star, so I can strongly recommend the kind of connection you’re trying to create. (Ironically, her name is May. I think there is a star associated with Maia but I am not good at finding it).
The only other thing I will say is that Josephine Juniper “Bay” is poetry and you should definitely go for it.
Some other ideas…
Jasper – not a star, but same sound as Juniper, same finding things together in nature vibe.
Polaris – is a star, three syllables, easy to find, no mythology baggage, but a little more out there.
Aster or Stellar – not a specific star, but I really like the sound, and similarities to the sound you like in Juniper
One last reply to point out Leo is a fairly prominent constellation you could probably learn to find, and the Big and Little Dippers are also Ursa Major and Minor, putting any name that means bear (Orson, Arthur, Christopher) into play for staying up late at night and finding his special constellation.
Or Leonard, nickname Leo. Leonard and Josephine make a great set.
I came across a mother with baby Orion recently and for some reason I immediately thought of it as O’Ryan even though I’d heard the name Orion before and never encountered an O’Ryan. Maybe because my husband is Irish. Anyways, no negative connotations came to mind, I thought it went well with his sibling names – Maverick and Sydney.
For me, the Orion origin story would be a no go. Otherwise, it’s a great name! Callum is also a great name, but with your last name, it might run together like “Calla (B)ay.”
I do like the suggestion of Jasper. And, I’ve met an Orson in the wild, and was pleasantly surprised by his name. I like Theodore from your list. Maybe Anders or Anderson? Xavier? Caleb? Jameson?
….. I never knew any of this mythology. Man, these gods were like the MMA meets Cinemax of the BCs. Came to say I’m New England, would (have before) easily recognized pronounced and enjoyed an Orion.
I know an Orion with a little brother Archer. Maybe that’s an easier tie in to the constellation without the baggage?
Though I don’t think Ori smacks of appropriation (though I’m not Jewish) the few Old Testament names you have in the list do hit me particularly as being biblically specific- Solomon, Gideon. I personally would avoid those. Love the suggestion of Sullivan and Finnegan.
So would add:
Archer
Garrett
Teagan
Dawson
Nathaniel
Beckett
Anderson
Yup, all that background on Orion puts it on the no-go list to me. Plus he’d definitely have some pronunciation issues, so strike two (if that we’re the only issue I’d still keep it as a contender.)
I love the suggestion above of Jory! I wonder if you could use Joseph Orion called Jory. Then you’d have the constellation tie-in to share with him (without the daily pronunciation) and the family tie, but his own daily name? Or Thomas Orion nn Tommy or Tom (T.O.M.) or if you want more whimsical Thor (using his first + middle names)?
I like Solomon and Gideon and Callum from your list, but feel Theodore and Finn-names are quite popular. And Brendan is solid but not as whimsical.
But let hope it’s a Josephine Juniper! So lovely.
I’d like to suggest Oran, an Irish name that eliminates many of the problems with Orion while keeping some of the sound. Meaning usually given as “green one”. The full-on Irish spelling “Odhrán” probably won’t work for you, but “Oran” is relatively widely used in Ireland (ranked 132 for boys in Ireland in 2020), and the pronunciation (AW-ran) is easy to explain.
I would also like to echo the love of other commenters for Josephine Juniper!
A name that gives me a similar impression to Orion is Albion.
There is a town near me in Michigan called Lake Orion with the OR-ee-an pronunciation which would definitely make the confusion more likely around here— but I would never have wondered or hesitated to go with the constellation
pronunciation before living in this area!
I’m from New England and I wouldn’t say o-REE-on. I was also fascinated by mythology in high school and I didn’t remember Orion’s background being overly problematic but… yeah.
That said, I like the name Orion. I think of the constellation and then of the Metallica instrumental, and then Cliff Burton. That’s probably just me; my Spotify plays Orion at least once a week.
Do you like the name Torian? I first heard it in the context of a video game character but google says it’s a variant of Torin (chief in Gaelic), or a surname for a family who lived near a thornbush (or something).
I like Finnegan a lot but I’m guessing he would be Finn pretty quickly, and Finn is everywhere. Not necessarily a problem but something to think about.
I like the suggestions of Jasper and Orson.
Other thoughts:
Riordan
Ronan
Donovan
Cormac
Gwydion :3
Cillian / Killian
Shamus
Josephine Juniper is beautiful. <3
Ooh, I love the name Torin!
I’m a little torn—on the one hand, I would not personally want a name with that backstory/association now that I know the story. But I also know that if I were to meet an Orion (before having read the backstory Swistle has outlined) I would not have thought anything negative about it, and the first thing that would spring to mind would be the constellation. Maybe you could put it in the middle name slot, so you still have the fun nature connection but maybe dilute the problematic associations a bit. I think Theodore Orion sounds beautiful, and, in the event you do have a future daughter, Theodore and Josephine are truly perfect together.
Good luck!
I wouldn’t think that Orion is off limits for everyone, and I certainly wouldn’t think negatively about parents who chose the name but it sounds like THIS parent is looking forward to lots of meaningful conversations with her child about where their name came from and what it means. And I guess my own experience as a parent is that things that feel like “well…what do you expect its Greek mythology” to us as jaded adults starts to feel different when you have a new little person with potential for a whole new perspective on the world.
I personally wouldn’t go with Orion due to the myth. That’s a personal choice, so no judgment on names like Juliet, Ophelia, etc. that I also personally wouldn’t go for.
Also, I am Jewish, and Ori is a Very Jewish name. I would 100% assume that the person was Jewish. Ori (OR-ee) only reads “practicing Jew” or “Israeli” to me. Non-Jews probably have no idea and it would not even register with them. Or is another Hebrew boy name meaning “light,” just FYI in case you do go with Orion and are interested in additional nicknames. Or is a name in and of itself!
Orion fits nicely into a Middle Name spot for me, though! I think it’s just the right amount of interest and unusualness for a middle name.
I am Jewish and agree with this, but to add I wouldn’t be offended or think it was appropriation if I met someone named Ori (or with a kiddo named Ori) who wasn’t Jewish. (That’s for me personally, of course other people might feel differently).
I don’t know much about the mythology of the name Orion, but I think it doesn’t have to be a dealbreaker unless it’s super important to you, as I think many people don’t know the history of the name. Orion is not a personal favorote name of mine (I prefer Ryan, and I’m slightly tickled by the porspect of O’Ryan), but if you love it I think it’s perfect. Orion Thomas (M)ay. I like the nickname Ry/Ri if that appeals to you.
If the history of the name is a deal breaker, I love the names Barrett, Silas, and Jasper for you. I think they all go nicely with your surname and I think with Thomas as a middle name, or even Orion. I also like all the other names on your list. Theodore is a favorite of mine, and both Teddy and Theo are darling nicknames. Finnian is another personal favorite of mine and the nickname Finn is lovely.
My feeling is that you love the name Orion so you should name your baby Orion. I would lean into him being named for the constellation rather than the myth and talk about how special stars are, how you can always see Orion in the sky.
I’m inclined to agree with Kate! I’m sure some people will know the Orion stories, but personally (and I think for most people) the first association is with the constellation. Lots of Greek mythology names are in use right now and most of them have negative stories associated with them, so I doubt many people would be phased by the name Orion. I think it comes down to whether it bothers *you* knowing the background.
To me this is similar to how names have personal meaning as well as official meaning. For example, my mom’s name is Catherine, which means pure. If I used that name, the connection to the person would be enough for me to ignore the meaning “pure” and associated ideas about women/chastity/etc, which I don’t love. If the connection to the constellation is strong for you, I wouldn’t be overly worried about the mythology angle.
I can’t comment on whether Ori is appropriate or not, but I think Ry makes a good nickname. I think there could be some confusion between Orion and O’Ryan, but that doesn’t stand out as a problem. And it wouldn’t occur to me to use the o-ree-on pronunciation. I think Orion has a really nice sound and it’s meaningful to you, so it’s got my vote!
I do like Finnian, Finnigan, and Theodore from your list too.
TW: R*PE, MURDER, ECT. AS RELATED TO ANCENT MYTH
Sorry for barging in here, but I just had to point out:
I don’t think the mythological association knocks Orion out of use… unless we’re also going to avoid almost all names from Greek mythology.
All of the male Olympians (Zeus, Dionysus, Hermes, Ares, ect) raped people in myth. The female gods raped people, too, on occasion, and they were completely unsympathetic to rape victims. Athena turned Medusa into a monster as punishment after Poseidon violently raped Medusa, and Hera routinely murdered women after Zeus raped them. They also murdered A LOT of children, which makes hunting animals seem pretty tame. One of the most famous stories about Apollo and Artemis features them murdering fourteen children to spite their mother, Niobe.
If anything, these characters are MORE violent and despicable in their Roman forms. But names like Juno, Diana, and Mars are very trendy.
My point is just that we don’t think parents who name their children Diana or Apollo are excusing rape, or promoting the murder of children. Obviously, your comfort level will dictate how you feel about this.
POINT OF INTEREST: There are two very famous people named Orion from the Civil War period. Orion P. Howe was a Union drummer boy, and one of the youngest recipients of the Medal of Honor. Orion Clemens was a staunch abolitionist who worked with President Lincoln, as well as the brother of Mark Twain. Maybe you’ll find those positive connections outweigh the distasteful myth?
I think Jenny made a really good point about the mythology surrounding Orion… It is not worst than other Greek/Roman (some very popular).
I have only met one Orion… She is the daughter of a friend. She was named after the constellation. I was always struck by tbe uniqueness and beauty of the name. I have never heard anyone mispronounce it and usually she gets tons of compliments. (“Cool name!”)
Personnally, if you love the name Orion for your boy choice, go for it! Thomas as a middle is a good option if he wants to use a more tradational name at some point.
PS: Josephine Juniper is a great name, too!
My neice who lives in Ireland named her son Orion. I think constellation and not problematic myths. I live in New England — no pronounciation issue. But if you’re off Orion
I have a Brendan named in 2004. ❤❤ Popularity is way down since then — less likely he’ll have classmates w name.
More Irish boy names that sound good w last name:
Cillian
Dermot
Rory
Ronan
Connor.
I think most would think of the constellation and not the bad myth associations but I personally wouldn’t use it because of them… I know an Orin, not three syllables but still lovely.
I really like the suggestions of Torin and Riordan/Rory. With the middle name Thomas I also think Nathaniel sounds great.
For me, I see Orion as very usable (interestingly I don’t like O’Ryan, which goes to show that people are fickle). Knocking out all of the problematic names from history/myth/religion would take a really long time and I don’t think many names would be left sadly.
I could make a big long list of currently used names from mythology that would be no go if we interrogate the mythology but I won’t because I don’t want to put people off.
I think a connection to a constellation would be wonderful and special and a name/connection that I would like to have. Go forth!
I think of the constellation when I hear Orion. It is my favorite constellation, and I get a small burst of pleasure every time I see it in the sky. I reflexively smile when I see those three stars in a row and trace up and down the constellation. I can see how nice it would be to name a son Orion, imaging myself looking up in the night sky and seeing those stars.
I think you should go with Orion Thomas or Josephine Juniper!
I agree with this. People will absolutely think of the constellation first and foremost, and it will be a positive association.
If Orion were my name, I would be happy with it on the whole and not see too many serious drawbacks. The name on your list that I would have a big problem having is Brendan along with any other names beginning with “B.” With a surname beginning with the same letter as the fifth month, the first and last initials would NOT make me happy.
Where my head goes first:
White supremacy. ORION (Our Race Is Our Nation) is a hate slogan and call to arms used by various white supremacy groups.
I’m not saying you should avoid it, and I think most people will think of the constellation first, but it’s something to be aware of before using the name.
Other ideas:
Tobias
Ciaran
Kieran
Rowan
Lachlan
Graham
Felix
Lucian
Julian
Luca
Ronan
Ellis
YIKES. I did not know that. I think knowing that would make the name unusable for me.
I came here to make sure someone mentioned this because I’d be devastated to learn of a white supremacy commendation after the kid was named (were it my kid).
I keep coming to this post and not leaving a comment because I can’t decide if the mythological story is a deal-breaker or not. I think pre-Me Too it would be easier to sweep under the rug, saying but all the Greek and Roman gods were rapists, but now my mind keeps catching on that fact.
I like Finnian, Finnegan, & Theodore.
I agree with so many other commenters that Josephine Juniper is utterly delightful, but I understand the pull of family names, too. Both are good choices.
I was planning on coming here to say that Orion seemed usable until Saraya’s comment about the white supremacy connection, and now I don’t think I would use it.
My main connection is the constellation, although I knew the myth stuff that Swistle mentioned. I think you would find that most people would pronounce the name correctly first try, because of the stars. As a Jewish woman, I would probably assume that an Ori was Jewish, but if I knew it was a nickname for Orion, I would not feel offended or like there was some great appropriation.
BUT the white supremacy connection is really way too much. I would ALWAYS be worried that people think that I was sending a coded message with the name.
Love Josephine for you. Not a fan of Orion. I pronounce it correctly but would assume you’ll run into at least some issues with that, although I don’t think it’ll be a huge issue.
From your list, I like Gideon best. I do love Finnegan as well but think it’s likely to be shortened to Finn which isn’t ideal with your surname. Ditto Callum and Calvin.
From Swistle’s list, I love Sullivan (Sully) and Everett for you. I think Declan and Oliver work as well.
A few others:
Tobin
Nolan
Jasper
Barrett
Garrett
Orion is a popular name around here (I am in a hippie nature attuned California location), so I am familiar with it as a name and don’t have any trouble with it.
I am a mythology nerd and didn’t remember the peeing on the bull hide bit. Also, my primary and overwhelming association is “the constellation” and not at all “but who was Orion REALLY”.
I don’t see it as a problematic name, but if we are going to dive into “was Orion a good guy” then maybe it’s not the BEST name.
I don’t foresee issues with pronunciation, can’t speak to appropriation.
“…but who was Orion REALLY.” LOL!
I also think of astronomy and Greek mythology when I hear Orion. The cool thing about mythic names is that it’s a negotiation between the original story and the modern imagination. Hence, Thor/Odin/Knut/Magnus, all Viking or Norse myth names, potentially associated with sexual crimes if we want to investigate, have been reclaimed for modern boys. This is progres.s. Would I name a child Harvey Weinstein Neiger right now? No. But there’s plenty of ground in between.
I really adore Gideon with your last name! Josephine for a girl is such a fabulous choice too. Best of luck!
Finnian Orion grabbed my heart and wouldn’t let go.
I like Orion for you and would think of the constellation only upon meeting an Orion.
If you can’t settle your doubts on the name, one name possibility that came to mind for you is: Caspian.
If you choose Orion, some people will absolutely hear Ryan. There will be a fair bit of repeating. I immediately think of the constellation first, the mythology second. I don’t think mispronunciation is going to be much of an issue. Stylistically, I’m not sure Josephine and Orion totally match, but they are in complementary styles, not clashing ones in my head. I think the nickname of Ori confuses the pronunciation actually and may heighten any confusion. The comment about the connection to white supremacy is concerning; I’d look more into that before using the name.
I really like Theodore from your list. Like Josephine, it has so many nickname potentials – Ted, Teddy, Theo, Teo, Todor. Theodore Orion is great. I think Solomon is a great name as well. The nickname Sol harkens to the sun, which is nice.
I’d be tempted to consider more celestial-inspired middle names for a Theodore.
– Theodore Blaze
– Theodore Comet
– Theodore Vega
– Theodore Rigel (brightest star in Orion)
I think the name Orion is fine, but has more baggage than the average name (white nationalist, mythical rape, nickname being from another culture, pronunciation issues). I’m not sure I’d want to saddle my own kid with that just because I loved the name. Life is complicated enough without a name that might cause issues later. I mean it’s not Adolph, but it’s not Joe either.
I live in new england and actually have a friend who had a baby a few years ago and considered the name Orion, last name very similar to the poster. In the end she chose Jasper.
I very much don’t like the name Orion. Even though I am familiar with the constellation I think I would assume the name was O’ryan which I really don’t like very much at all. I’m sure if you introduced the child as “Orion, like the constellation” most people would get it immediately though and that would alleviate my biggest beef with the name. I don’t mind the origin story at all for whatever reason.
As for the nickname Ori, I am a very much nonpracticing Jew but if I heard someone use that name I would pretty much assume they were Jewish. Given you would use it as a nickname short for something else I don’t think there is anything wrong with using Ori, but if the nickname stuck I think a lot of people would make that assumption as well.
Lastly I don’t love the connection to white supremacists. Obviously it isn’t as overt as a white child named “Aryan” or “Adolf” but if it lead people to question if my intention was to impart white supremacist ideology onto my child that would be a dealbreaker.
Looooove Solomon with your last name. Solomon Thomas “Bay”. *SWOON* Gideon is gorgeous as well. Callum, Finn and Brendan feel more common and therefore less special to me. If you decide that Orion isn’t right for you for whatever reason, I think Solomon and Gideon both have some of that same special something.
And I agree that for a girl, Josephine Juniper “Bay” is spectacular. *DOUBLE SWOON*