Hi,
My husband and I are struggling to come to an agreement on a name for our first daughter who is due very soon, in March 2021. The baby’s last name will sound like Marvey, but starting with H. After long discussions, we can only agree on one name. I am French and my husband is American; we both like the French version of Jane: Jeanne (pronounced Zhann or Jhann).
However, we live in the US and are concerned about how it will be pronounced here, either Jean/Gene or even Gee-Ann. We are okay with Jean but wonder if it will be confusing for her to have two very different sounding names, one at home and another in the world, or if she’ll end up correcting people constantly. And we definitely don’t like Gee-Ann. Is it likely people might call her Gee-Ann if we spell it Jeanne? Should we just give up on this name to spare her a lifetime of frustration or do you suggest going ahead with it, or perhaps changing the spelling…?
We really appreciate your thoughts or if you have other name suggestions. For inspiration, I like Eleanor, Adele, Anaïs (dropped because of another pronunciation issue…) and my husband likes Miranda and Anna.
Thank you!
C.
I do think she will be called Jean very very often (I don’t think anyone will ever GUESS Zhan; many people won’t even be aware of it as an option), and that she will have to correct people constantly and/or decide not to bother (such as with receptionists and baristas and other situations where it doesn’t matter and there’s no long-term gain in making the effort), though her inner circle will learn to say it Zhan. And if you are okay with having two pronunciations, and okay with correcting people when it seems worth it, then I think it’s fine: a constant mild issue, but not a big deal if you don’t find it irritating. I don’t think she will find it confusing; I think she will grow up with those two pronunciations and it will seem completely normal to her.
My guess is that she would be called Gee-ann almost never, but perhaps someone who is or knows a Jeanne could weigh in. My feeling is that, despite knowing that Joanne is pronounced like Jo-anne, we all know that Jeanne is pronounced Jean—except for the occasionally mental slip, such as when someone sees the name Evan and briefly pronounces it Even or Yvonne before realizing.
Another issue is that I think her name will be misheard as John: for example, on the phone if you are saying Zhan Marvey, I think it will happen pretty often that someone will write down John Marvey.
For me, this would all be Too Much to be worth it. But people vary widely on their tolerance for mispronunciations/corrections, and “My mom is French!” is a quick and adorable explanation she can use, and it would not take long for all of you to get into the habit of saying “It’s Zhan: J-E-A-N-N-E, Zhan” and “Oh, actually it’s pronounced Zhan—it’s French.” (I wish Jeanne D’Arc was an easy reference, but unfortunately I hear her name almost exclusively said as Joan of Arc.)
You may also sometimes get the pronunciation with a long e on the end. Maybe this is southern, but I know two unrelated people named Jeanne who pronounce it like genie. With so many French crossover names to be had, I also wouldn’t choose this unless there was a super compelling reason, but it is a beautiful name if you don’t mind the corrections.
I’ve never heard Jeanne pronounced as Gee-anne, but mostly as Jean and occasionally as Jeanie.
I like the French pronunciation — that really changes plain Jean for me, but I probably would not use it for a daughter since she most likely would end up being Jean or Jeanie, unless she was up to constantly
correcting others.
You mentioned you think of Jeanne as the French pronunciation of Jane. Why not name her Jane and call her” Jeanne” in the family?
This is how I would pronounce the name, as the only person I’ve met with this spelling g pronounces it this way. From the Southern US as well.
I was coming to say this. My husbands cousin is Jeanne, pronounced genie
Yes me too! I’m a southerner and I know only Jeanne’s pronounced Jeanie.
I would definitely say “Jean,”and the surname wouldn’t give the hint that it should be the French pronunciation. I would personally go with another name, and use Jeanne as the middle, but that’s me. I might change my mind if she would have a french surname.
I have a fairly common French name (as you can see), and live in Canada, and had tons of people mispronouncing it growing up – Rennie, Reenie. And my parents weren’t even going for the French pronunciation (with the rolling R.) Now, I don’t get as many mispronunciations, though many mispellings (Rene, Renne), even when people have the name right in front of them in their inbox ;-) I’ve actually had other Renee flat out confront me that I’m saying my name ‘wrong’ – “it’s Reenie” like what? But, even with all that – and the added issue of French-speaking people getting angry with me for not being fluent when they learn my name – I’m glad to have this name. It ties me to the French-Canadian part of my family and my grandmother chose it for me. However, I will say I vowed never to put my kids through the same. But now, having two school-aged kids, the variety of names we encounter every day is so so different. People are more respectful about taking a moment to check on how to say a name or spell it. I have friends who have chosen french names for their kids and use the anglicized version for school and true version (and speaking French in general) at home and their kids seem fine with it. Example: Audrey is Odd-ree at school, but Oh-dray at home. We also have French Canadian friends who introduce themselves with the anglicized version except when in French-speaking company. Example: Simon is Sigh-mon at work and See-mo at home. I’m not that was super helpful, but thought I’d add my two cents. I’d expect your Jeanne to get Gene or Genie most often and yes, people would overhear you calling her as John. But nothing is insurmountable about that if it’s the name you love love the most!
This is hard. As an American I will say that Jeanne is such a confusing name for me already because sometimes it’s Jean and sometimes it’s Jean-ie and I never know which!
I went to school (late 70s) with a Jeanne and we definitely pronounced it Jean-nie, but this is making me wonder if that’s how her parents wanted it said! I think this is a situation where it really depends how much the idea of differing pronunciations would bother you.
I think you will get Jean and Jean-nie in about equal amounts (I would read this as Jean). I don’t think you have to worry about Je – anne.
Personally, I struggle often with first names like this, that are pronounced one way in a certain culture, and the person with that name is of that culture. For example, I have a colleague who is of Armenian descent who pronounces his name with an accent that is unfamiliar (to me) and difficult to match. I am never sure if I should try and mimic that accented pronounciation, or if that comes off as disrespectful/offensive? Or, go with the more “American” pronounciation that is just slightly different.
I think you may have the same issue with Jeanne. It’s not like Jose, for example, where most people will know the expected pronounciation and are really unlikely to say it with a hard J. Most people are not going to guess “Zhan” and then, if corrected, may feel very awkward about trying it in a French accent.
As others said, not unsurmountable, but this will be a lifelong issue for your daughter. I say this has someone who has spent 40 years correcting people on the pronounciation of my very American first name, which is just one vowel sound off from its more common variants.
I think putting Jeanne in the middle spot would be a perfect compromise with this name. Miranda Jeanne is beautiful!
I am also French so this problem has come up for me as well. I think people will pronounce it either Jean or Genie pretty consistently. If you know you are going to stay in the US and your daughter is raised in an americanized environment (school, friends, etc.), I would choose one of the other great options out there.
From your list, I really like Anaïs a lot. That would definitely be my first choice.
My daughters are named Eloïse and Mirabelle, if that helps with some French names that work in the US.
So glad I see folks saying Jeanne is “genie”. The Only folks I know with this spelling say it as “genie.” And I really REALLY REALLY think “Zhann/Jhann” will sound like John to most people! Really really.
Funny you got rid of Anaïs bcs pronunciation– I think it has a much clearer one than Jeanne.
Have you considered Giana, prn “JOHN-a?”
Or add a short second 1st name, like Jeanne Marie middlename or Jeanne Adele middlename, to make it clearer she’s not John.
Maybe Alexandra nn Zan or Xan.
As French/american household (in France) i definitely think people would call her Jean or jean-knee. We went for names pronounced the same in both languages
My kids have authentic Russian names, and my advice is go for it! The people who know you and know your daughter will get it right, and everyone else will screw it up – until they learn.
You’ll get used to saying a little phrase that helps native English speakers remember the name, and then it’ll stick. For you, I’d say, “Jeanne… like Sean but with a Zh sound.” (because the name Sean or Shawn sounds a lot like the French pronunciation, and that helps it be memorable for the new person). In our family, we have an Aleksei… which people always mispronounce as Alek-see… until I say, “If there were an Alex A and an Alex B… this is ‘Alex A’. Aleksei.”
As for the phone thing and someone writing it down as John… I just don’t think that’s a problem. You’ll say, “I’m signing up Jeanne Marvey. That’s J-E-A-N-N-E, Jeanne.” nbd.
Beautiful name! Congratulations!
I grew up in New Orleans, where people are used to expecting French pronunciations, and my dance teacher was named Jeanne. Many people did call her “Zhann”, though I don’t know if they got it right on the first try. But a lot of people persisted in calling her Jean or Genie even after knowing her for a long time. And some people just couldn’t get the pronunciation right, so it basically sounded like John when they said it. (I never heard Je-ann, though!)
So, I would say if it was that difficult even in a place with a lot of French heritage, it would be really hard in other parts of the country.
I have a friend named Jeanne and she pronounces it “jean”. It would never occur to me to pronounce that Jee-nee.
FWIW, I also have a daughter named Eva and have a Frenchophone/Anglophone household, so when we named her, we pronounced it “ehh-va”. Then she was born and people were like “wait, eee-va or ehhh-va” and we were like “whichever, it’s cool” and that didn’t fly. People really wanted us to tell them. So we committed to eh-va, which we liked better, and now our 10-year-old daughter is, indeed, stuck correcting pretty much everyone (new teachers, doctors, etc) but she does it very confidently and it annoys her a little but not enough to let eee-va slide. Most people get it pretty quickly, and she doesn’t seem scarred.
I also had a friend named Jade, who grew up in a Fracophone/Anglophone (Canadian) family and she seems to switch between “jay-d” and “zhah-d” pretty comfortably depending who she is speaking with. So that’s evidence it can go the other way, too. :)
Would Jeannine work as an alternative? The English pronunciation would be much more like the French.
Two of my all-time favorite girls’ names would work well in either English or French, so I have to throw them out there: Celeste and Estelle!
We speak French at home, but live in the US. My son is named Edmund. We chose the more common English spelling because of where we live. We introduce him as Edmund to others in English but at home call him “Edmond”. At his French school he calls himself Edmond. It doesn’t bother him to switch back and forth and he understands which language he is responding to and he is only 4.
Similarly, I would name a daughter Jane, and pronounce it “Jane” to English speakers and “Jeanne” to French speakers.
Hope that makes sense.
As a middle school teacher, I have lots of students every year that I don’t know how to pronounce their names (many families who speak English as a second language, mostly Spanish, Hmong, Somali and Karen as their first language) on the first day of school. I’ve had very few French speaking families, so I wouldn’t know how to pronounce Jeanne right away. I would guess either Jean or Gee-anne. That being said, I would write down how your daughter told me it is pronounced and not say it incorrectly again. If it’s the name you love, I say go for it and insist on the correct pronunciation!
I would just use whatever name you love and go from there. My name is Joanne and people spell it wrong all the time, call me Joan, Joanna, Joanie, you name it. My daughter is Maria and I have to correct her ped office every time we go and they call her Mariah! Every time! Even if I spell my last name for people they spell it wrong. Do what you want!
I am torn on this. We named our daughter Livia at a time when Olivia was in the top 10 (it might be still!), and I have never not had to correct people, which is annoying but not a deal-breaker (we didn’t even think of the issue before we named her). The exception, though, is that most of her teachers see it printed before they ever meet her. This obviously won’t be a help in your case, and I do think it’s a somewhat bigger deal for a child to have to correct almost every teacher she ever has. That said, my daughter has gotten used to having to correct people (although she doesn’t bother in casual settings), and she loves her name, so. And I do think people are getting better at not assuming when it comes to spellings and pronunciations.
If the expected mispronunciations are NOT something you want to deal with, though, I love the suggestion of Miranda Jeanne, above.
My name is plain Jean (I often tell people “like pants, not like Simmons” when they try to spell it with a G). I am in my mid-30s and in all those years have never had anyone mispronounce my name, although I did have one poetry professor, on the first day of class while taking attendance, ask, “Jean or Zhan?”
I suppose it’s also thinking about how many people will be verbally introduced to your child first and how many people will read it and need correction: either way there’s a level of effort involved. Either folks will be uncertain how to spell it, or will need their pronunciation corrected. However, I think once that initial correction has taken place, it will not be a problem. If you both love the name and it’s the only one you agree on, it seems like it’s worth the effort.
I feel like I also want to add (immediately after posting) that it’s not like there’s 1000 Jean/Jeanne’s running around. I once knew a Jeanne my age, and otherwise most Jeans have a good 30+ years on me. So it’s not like the people she meets who know 10 Emma’s, but she is Emma pronounced Emmay or something like that. She will probably be the only Jeanne that anyone knows and I think that’ll help to stick with the pronunciation you want (as in, it’ll still require one correction but I think that one correction will stick).
I think the one drawback of the name is that it is spelled exactly like the American name that has such a different pronunciation. My husband is from Germany and we gave our firstborn a German name but spell the nickname phoenetically so that people use the correct pronunciation. This way he has the same sounding name in Germany and the US and our German family and friends know we use a slightly different spelling for the nickname. It’s worked out really well. His longer name is always pronounced the American way but that’s only ever used at doctors offices/official business. I’m not sure exactly how you could accomplish the same with Jeanne but it’s worth mulling over. Also I think Anaïs I beautiful and since it appears french, people are more likely to slow down and ask for pronunciation. Good luck
I know an adult Jeanne and nobody gets it right. Ever. For me, i would avoid it. I wouldn’t avoid Anais though. With Jeanne there is a conflicting “american” pronunciation. With Anais, it’s obviously the name requires a different pronunciation and People won’t assume the know how so perhaps they are more likely to ask vs assume and I’d prefer that.
My neighbor is named Jeanne, and she pronounces it “Jeanie” (JEEN-ee).
In general, I love names that are pronounced in a non-English way, and I’m motivated to say people’s names exactly right. However, I find myself anxious trying to say “Zhann/ Jhann” correctly. I’ve practiced it maybe 10 times since I started reading this post, and I’m pretty sure I still don’t have it exactly right. I remember meeting someone with the name “Eugenie,” which she pronounced “ew-ZHANN/JHANN-ee,” or something similar. After I attempted it several times (annoying her and making me anxious because I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t duplicate the sound she used), I gave it up and stopped using her name. Maybe most Americans would be better at making that particular sound than I am.
It’s not just you. I’m not good at those sounds either.
This may not be the answer you’re looking for, but I’ve met a Jeanne who said she does get called Gee-Ann a fair amount. I think maybe because it looks like Deanne with a J?
The most common mispronunciation in the US would probably be Jean, though.
That being said, I am a proponent of people not watering down their culture to make easier for others, names included. I have met a few people who go by slightly different pronunciations of their name depending on the context (i.e. Laura in both English and Spanish).
And in case it’s at all helpful, here are some more names you might like based on your list:
Elodie
Margot
Mira
Mireille
Mirabelle
Marielle
Melisande
Anaya/Anaia
Estelle
Yes, count me as the “almost never” person that thought it was pronounced Gee-Anne. Oops. That’s embarrassing but I’m glad I know now.
My name is Jeanne pronounced Jean-E. I was named after my grandmother, Emma Jeanne, who was often called the nickname “Jean-E” (she was from the South).
Rarely ever has someone pronounced my name correctly on the first try which I understand because it doesn’t have an “ie” ending. Most of my life I’ve gotten Jean, G-Anne (I think because of the name Joanne), or Jeanine. I just got accustomed at a young age to correcting people and grew to like my uncommon name.
For reference, I’m in my early 40’s and have not known anyone else my age with my name (pronunciation or spelling), and my dad was in the military so we lived in many different parts of the country.
I agree with many of the posters. I was a French major and consider myself to be a francophile, and I would say Jean or Jean-ie in the US. I have two adult friends who are Jeanne and both go by Jean-ie.
Love the suggestions of Margot, Elodie and Estelle. Or maybe Colette, Delphine, Camille, Marielle, Mirabel, Nadine, Juliette, Sybil, Severine, Claudine, Yvette, or Yvonne? Love Adele if that is still an option.
I think Anais will garner some confusion and might even provoke teasing (anus).
One thing that saddens me is when someone has to give up their culture because they moved countries, and consequentely are unable to transmit such culture to the children. I understand that Jeanne may cause too many problems, but I don’t see Jane as a good option either. With surname “Marvey” a French first name would be wonderful and representative of half her heritage!!
Adele is great! Adele Marvey!
Some options for a US kid: Estelle, Juliette, Carine, Lisette, Lucille, ***NOELLE***, Odette,
Vivienne and Yvette. (I love accents, however my keyboard said “not today” :P ).
A friend had the super French “Marie-Louise” on her list, but wanted something “different but still familiar”. I suggested Marie-Louisa. Maybe Anna-French name is an option?
+ Angeline!
I grew up with a Jeanne and a Jeanie and they were pronounced the same. They were also getting called Jeanine and Jenny a few times from people who didn’t read carefully. My guess is that they will be correcting people a lot, you just have to decide if that’s what you would want.
I have a friend whose daughter is Genevieve. Her family pronounces it the French way, which to my ear sounds pretty much like “jen viev”. But everyone else (teachers, friends, coaches, etc.) pronounces it the way more commonly heard in America, jen-uh-veev. I’ve noticed that’s how she introduces herself to new people. She is almost 9 now and has never seemed confused by this and in fact I think she likes having two different ways to pronounce her name. I imagine it might be similar for a Jeanne.
I live in Louisiana where the French pronunciation of Jeanne is quite well-known and I’ve never known anyone to have issues with it. Zhahn. It’s how we say it. I also have a French name (possibly Cajun French?) pronounced Uh-ZHELLE and no one struggles with my name, either. Outside of Louisiana I have to explain the pronunciation once or twice but after that people get it and are usually very complimentary of it. I say go with Jeanne if it’s what you love. It’s truly a non-issue in South Louisiana.
Gorgeous name, Angelle. I just remembered how popular Desiree was a while back, and everybody seems to know how to say it (I’m 44 from MN).
I understand your dilemma. We are a Russian-American family living in a German-speaking area, and it’s been so tough weighing out how much mispronunciation we’re willing to deal with when choosing names. I’ve accepted the likelihood that our daughter Frances/Francie may have her name Germanicized by her German-speaking peers and be called Franzi; I decided that was an acceptable price of admission to use my favorite name. Additionally — and this is important for you to consider — she may eventually PREFER that pronunciation/spelling in order to blend in better with her friends, just as your daughter may eventually prefer to be called Jeanne-pronounced-Jean when she’s out in the English-speaking world with her American pals. I think you have to come to terms with the likelihood that she will be called Jeanne-pronounced-Jean in most non-Francophone contexts, and that she may get sick of correcting people and even begin to prefer the English pronunciation to the French one. If you are fine with her having, essentially, one name in French and another in English, great. If not, I think you have to choose another name. You can’t force the people around you to pronounce the name in a way that doesn’t feel natural to them, although I’m sure most will do their best, and you definitely can’t be sure that your daughter will stick up for the intended pronunciation of her own name day in and day out. Maybe she will! But you have to be okay with it either way if you want to use the name. Bonne chance!!!
As a Jeanne (pronounced Jean), I get called Jean and Jeannie equally, occasionally Janine, and once in a while Jee-Anne. It’s frustrating. If you put another pronunciation in the mix I think it will consistently be a thorn in her side.
I know that kids who are raised in bilingual households/raised speaking one language at home and one elsewhere are very good at code-switching and knowing who in their life speaks which language. I imagine this may be similar – “at home and with family and close friends, I’m ‘Zhan’ and at school/elsewhere I’m more likely ‘Jean.’” But yes as others have said it will probably require either lots of correcting or acceptance of the fact that some people won’t get it- or both!!
So I don’t have anything new to add to the Jeanne discussion but did want to add that in the US there’s a popular kids cartoon that’s been airing for 5yrs, give or take, called The Amazing World of Gumball, and the main characters’ little sister is names Anaïs (she’s a pink rabbit), which would probably help with familiarity of the name quite a bit.
My only context with French vs. English pronounciation of names is French class. Our first class we chose or were given “French equivalent” names. Being a mega introverted socially anxious 11 year old, I was not a fan of this (or class participation in general) so the teacher gave me my name, which I’ve forgotten. I remember one of the many Jennifers was Genevieve (pronounced JHAN-vee-ev) and Peter became Pierre. Someone also brought up that peter en francais means something you shouldn’t name your kid.
IMHO, name pronounciation can vary so much, and there are ways to have fun with it if it’s not too annoying, or to mitigate the annoying-ness. My name is common but no one understands it over the phone, so I use Kathy when I order take out. Spoiler alert: my name isn’t Kathy. My brother has the same exact issue; he uses Jim.
More names :)
Avril
Aurélie
Élise
Fabienne (tbh my only exposure to this name is Pulp Fiction)
Léonie
Sylvie
The name Jeanne is beautiful. I personally would use 2 different pronounciations of the name – Jean when speaking English and Zhan when speaking French. I’ve lived in English, French and German speaking areas, and I think that’s the easiest approach when dealing with names that are pronounced differently in different languages. Susan/Suzanne for example, or my own name Lisa (pronounced Leeza in German).
Of course, if you choose to use the French pronounciation exclusively, you should do that! People just have to get used to names that they maybe aren’t familiar with. Trends are definitely going this way.
But I think if you found Anaïs to be too problematic, then I think Jeanne would cause even more problems if it is only to be pronounced the French way. With Anaïs, people might say AnNAY but would at least maybe pause to ask because it is not a common English name. Whereas I think people would immediately jump to Jean or genie, especially with an English surname.
I think one of the problems with the Zhann/ Jhann pronunciation for English speakers is that we really almost never use the aspirated J sounds in everyday language, and as someone who has had to adopt a different language with aspiration, it is still a hard sound to say. Personally when I first read the question, my mind kept default to Jeanine despite not having that extra in there.
All that being said, if her name is Jeanne pronounced Zhan/ Jhan friends, family, teachers, and everyday acquaintances will know how to say her name after a time or two, and you or she will need to correct as necessary other people. If that is an acceptable tradeoff, then it seems fine.
I think the mispronunciations would get really, really annoying for both of you… I love the other French names commenters have suggested, here are a few more I love:
Celeste, Clara, Amelie, Gabrielle, Genevieve, Iva, Simone, Vivienne, and Kathleen (biased bc its my name)
I know a middle-aged Jeanne – she lives in the DC metro area – who uses the pronunciation you prefer. It’s a little bit of a pain for her, but she says after introducing herself twice to most people they usually get it. I say go for it.
My grandmother was NEVER called gee-ann–always Jean or Jeanie (like I Dream of Genie). I just don’t think gee-ann is a thing.
I agree Zhan will be heard as John A Lot. That would personally bother me more than using both Jean & Zhan.
I actually know two girls named Jeanne-Marie in the U.S. Maybe the second part of the name helps to give a hint, but they rarely get their name mispronounced after they clarify the correct pronunciation the first time.
I’m not sure if only people over a certain age would understand the reference but perhaps “it’s pronounced Zhan, like JonBenet Ramsay, but spelled J-e-a-n-n-e” would help clarify the pronunciation/spelling when needed. But then again I wonder if that’s too tragic of an example or if people would then think you named your daughter after her if you said that.
I think it’s too inconvenient tbh. If you like the Zhan pronounciation maybe you’d like Zion? It has the strong Z sound and it’s unlikely to be confused.
I think you could pull off Jean pronounced Zhan if you compared it something that Americans almost pronounce the French way. Jeannette is almost a ZH- sound to a lot of us, and you could work with the way people. Or “Jolie,” or “Jean Valjean” from Les Miserables (I don’t have the right keyboard settings to do all the accents).
Any excuse to listen to Hugh Jackman, right?
Or “Jeanne rhymes with Sean” might help people remember.
I think the world is changing, people are more accepting of different cultures and are willing to put in more effort to get name pronunciation right. It’s good to be exposed to other cultures and heritage, it adds a richer existence to the melting pot of American life. Maybe for take out she has a different name. When it just doesn’t matter, I often give a different name when ordering things verbally.
I’m Canadian (English Canada, very far from French Canada) and would obviously default to Zhan. I did go to school with a Jeanette (pronounced the French way but nicknamed Jeannie with the English pronunciation). If you don’t mind Jean or Jeannie I would go with it, introduce her to people your way, but accept that it may not happen. (Disclosure: I gave my daughter a name that’s practically unpronounceable in English; she has an English nickname used by all English speakers we know. I’m a firm believer in honouring culture and your own preferences).
That said, I think in some ways it would just be easier to teach people to say Anaïs.
I live in New Orleans and am not French-speaking, but I completely read Jeanne as zhan. That’s how we pronounce the feminine Jeanne and the masculine Jean. I was an adult the first time I ever heard Jeanne pronounced genie and it was someone from northern us and I was shocked that they would pronounce it that way! So if you want it pronounced correctly, come live down here! :)