Dear Swistle,
This August we’re expecting our second child. We call Josephine (1 1/2) by her full name, though we are open to nicknames developing (my personal favorite being Posie).
For daughter #2, our top choice is Alice.
I’m wary of the way Alice sounds with our last name (pronounced like emmaus-without-the-E). I feel like the repetitive “iss” sound makes it sound oddly scientific/Latin, especially with the matching number of syllables.
We love the name Elise, but I would want to use it as a nickname for Elisabeth, a family name (both maternal great-grandmother and godmother/aunt of the baby are named Elizabeth).
My husband is completely against the idea of deciding on a nickname from birth/giving one name but having them go by another.
So it comes down to Elisabeth or Alice. Or, is it just Elisabeth? I keep struggling with the sound of the full name with Alice! Am I imagining an issue where there isn’t one?
Thanks for any input and advice!
Best,
Lauren
Extra info:
– We’re a Belgian-American family, living in Belgium. Classic names tend to sound good in both English and Flemish.
– Josephine is named after her paternal great-grandmother
– We like Julie, but don’t want two J-names
– We like Clementine and Olivia, but don’t feel like they’re right for this baby
– The middle name(s, we give two) don’t need to be considered
– we hope to have three children
I began by looking up how to pronounce Emmaus, and for those of you in the same boat, it’s roughly em-MAY-us or eh-MAY-iss, that’s the gist of it.
With that surname (minus the first syllable), I don’t like the sound of either Alice or Elise: the S-sound of the endings just hits my ear very wrong, especially with Alice where the vowel sound also matches, making something close to a rhyme. So my definite choice among the options is Elisabeth without calling her Elise. And I think Elisabeth is terrific with the name Josephine. And I love that it is honoring two women in your family.
I agree that neither Alice or Elise are ideal with your last name. I do like Elisabeth with Josephine. For some reason, I prefer another 3 or 4 syllable name. With Josephine, I like:
Annabelle
Alexandra
Caroline
Meredith
Isabelle
Victoria
I agree with Swistle. That S ending is a problem with Alice and Elise. I wonder how you would feel about Alicia? Or even Allison? Not sure how those work in Flemish.
Really, I do love Elisabeth and think it’s great with Josephine. Perhaps Alice could be a middle name?
Or you could use something else and Elise could be one of the middles?
What about Elsie as a nickname for Elisabeth?
As an Elizabeth, I vote for Elisabeth. I also don’t like how Alice or Elise work with your last name.
Elisabeth has so many great nicknames! Nicknames for almost every mood!
On the classic name front, I love Margaret (so many nicknames again!)
Georgette
Agatha
Rosalind (Rosalyn)
Vivian (Vivienne)
I rather like Elisabeth as well ;)
The sibilant sound at the end of both Alice and Elise sound like a lot with your surname.
Elisabeth is a gorgeous compliment to Josephine! Elsie is much like Elise, but it takes away the ‘s’ at the end. Posey and Elsie are adorable together!
Congrats and best wishes. :)
Another vote for Elisabeth. It is wonderful with the sister name and works well with your last name.
I’m for Elisabeth too! It’s lovely with Josephine, has a lot of nice nicknames. You can’t go wrong with it, I reckon.
I didn’t understand the last name, but if it’s “May-iss,” then Alice and Elise are both not working to me. Elisabeth works ok, esp if you do a nickname.
With Josephine, I love the above recs of Caroline, Meredith, Rosalind, and Vivian. Also: Tabitha, Claudia, Gloria, Julia.
I said the names together a million times, and if I’m saying them correctly, the Alice with your last name IS a bit rhyming, but I think Elise sounds quite nice. I also like the suggestion of Elsie, and I like Elsa, Eliza, or Liese as well. Do you need to use the full name if you prefer Elise which has the same root?
I’d like to point you towards your second choice Elisabeth “Elise” Emmaus-without-the-E. You both love the name and, unlike Alice, you don’t have any issues with the way Elise sounds with your surname. I think the link to her great-grandmother and godmother will be meaningful to your daughter. I also like that both your daughters first names will honour family members.
The one thing you have to contend with is your husband’s aversion to predetermining the nickname from birth or giving one name but having them go by another. To me these are, whilst similar, two separate things. I’m not sure which idea your husband struggles with but from your letter it seems more likely the latter. To me, a nickname is more of a preference that your daughter is called Elise, but she is still known by her full name in everyday life. In this case, both you and your husband should be comfortable with others calling her Elisabeth (as well as the possibility of other nicknames). If this is your predicament you have time come around to the charms of Elisabeth as a name in its own right.
If you only want to use Elisabeth for official documents, and for your daughter to be known as Elise at all other times, then one thing you could do to appease your husband’s concern is to choose Elise as her full name. This means forgoing your desire to use your exact family name in return for a more harmonious decision. The family honour is still there, it just won’t be as obvious. If using the exact family name is in fact extremely important to you, a trade could be done for your husband to have the final say on the middle names or the first name of your hopeful third child. As long as your husband fully appreciates why you are insisting on the exact family name, this situation seems achievable. After all, Josephine is named after his side of the family so you should have the same privilege.
Back to your first choice Alice. Are you imagining an issue where there isn’t one? It’s less of an issue and more a matter of preference. Your first job is to please yourselves. It doesn’t matter if others wouldn’t choose Alice or Elise with your surname. It’s not their child. People rarely think twice about the flow of other people’s names. We also don’t tend to say [first name] [surname] among ourselves as much as we think we do. However, the impression I get from your letter is that for you the negatives of Alice slightly outweigh the positives. The repetition and scientific sound of Alice Emmaus compete with and ultimately diminish your love for the name on this child. If this is true for you, then it’s about allowing yourself to let go and slowly accepting that although you adore the name Alice, for reasons outside your control it just wasn’t the right name for this child.
Some final encouragement for Elisabeth “Elise”. Swistle and other commenters have had similar issues with the name Elise but I, for one, think it’s goes just fine with your surname. The long “e” and the stress on the second syllable make Elise sound considerably better when paired with Emmaus. I don’t get any of those jarring scientific connotations as I do with Alice. Elise Emmaus sounds rather graceful to me.
Whether you decide on Alice or Elisabeth “Elise,” either way, you still have quite a few months ahead of you with this pregnancy to work through your dilemma. I look forward to your update!
Josephine and Elisabeth. Both have so many options for nicknames that can naturally develop. Love the combo.
My preference would be Elisabeth Rose or Naomi Rose. I really like Alice, but yeah, it’s a bit rhymy for my taste.
I have no idea how my aunt Betchen acquired her nickname*, but I rather like it. (There are _so_ many Elisabeths in my family, and I’m the only one who consistently goes by our full name.)
*My only theory is based on her dad being stationed in Germany for a long time, and I do wonder if maybe a toddler Betchen mashed up the end of her name with the German word for “girl” (Mädchen)