We are expecting a third daughter at the end of February (coming up fast!), and since you were so helpful in helping us name our last child, I thought I’d ask for help again.
Our daughters are Avila Marie (sometimes called Avi like Abby) and Rose Therese Eowyn (usually called Rosie). Our last name is Carrot-with-an-M, and we’d like to have more children.
My husband and I have very different naming styles: his name ideas are often outside the top 1000, while mine tend to be names in the top 100 or just outside of it. (We do have one unifying thread, which is that we pick names of a saint that we really like. But since 95% of people we meet don’t know who St. Teresa of Avila is, this unifying factor is often not noticeable.) You can probably guess that Avila was my husband’s favorite name (my choice would have been Claire.) And Rose was my favorite name.
Well, here we are with unnamed baby three, and we have narrowed the field down to three names:
My favorite names are
Tessa (nn Tess)
Genevieve (nn Evie, which is really close to Avi).His favorite name is
Zelie (we’d pronounce it like “jelly.”) From what I understand, it’s a currently popular French name derived from the longer name Azelie, (which means Azalea…a nice floral tie-in with the name Rose.)At various moments we have said “yes, let’s do it!” to each of these three names, but then we keep coming back to the table again. I want to pick a name and be done!
Here’s my dilemma. My husband has been going through a difficult time the last few months, and it has made it hard for him to be excited about this pregnancy (obviously, it will be easier when she’s here.) This makes me want to say yes to Zelie–just because it means to have him in love with her name. (Also he’s talked about the combo of Zelie Louise, which is fun and zippy to say.)
On the other hand, I find myself hesitating just when I want to say yes to the name Zelie. My hesitation stems from how long it took me to love the name Avila, even after she was born (though I do love it now.) I still have a momentary flicker of resignation in the doctor’s office/new neighbor/party event where the person I’m talking to hesitates and says, “what is her name again?” and then proceeds to call her something else unintentionally. Then again, it’s mostly adults on the periphery of our lives who have this problem. Other kids always seem to easily grasp her name.
If we did go with the name Zelie Louise, here’s what I’d love to know:
1. Would you guess that you said the name Zelie like “jelly”?
2. Does it seem too much of a nickname-y name to you? We could name her the full name Azelie, if that was better, and call her Zelie. Or is that just giving her two unpronounceable names to grapple with?
3. The name we’d probably use if we have a boy in the future is Blaise. Does Avila, Rose, Zelie, and Blaise make the name Rose stand out as an outlier?
Thanks for your help!
This seems like a great question for a group answer, since there are so many parts of it that will be completely subjective. I wish the polls still worked. I will put a poll on Twitter, but that’s unsatisfying because of how many people aren’t on Twitter. But it is better than nothing. And in fact, it might be better than a blog poll because it’ll get some votes from people who are not baby-name hobbyists, which may give a more accurate representation of what you’d find in the public at large. Well, on to my subjective answers:
1. Would I guess that the name Zelie was pronounced to rhyme with jelly? No. With that spelling, similar to Amelia rather than to Ellie, I would first guess ZEE-lee. One could argue that it would be more accurate to say that the spelling is like Amelie, but that requires knowing that the name Zelie is French and also knowing how to pronounce Amelie; I feel like the segment of the U.S. population who would know both of those things is…small. But this is why this is a great question for a group: we may find there are tons of us who would have gone straight to Zelly. Here’s a link to the Twitter poll, for those who can use it; I will post the results here when it’s over. [Poll closed; results:]
[Of the comments on the 3-tweet series, there were 2 comments saying Zellie, 7 comments saying Zeelie, and 5 comments saying Zaylie, plus several comments expressing uncertainty between two options.]
2. Does it seem like a nickname-y name? I am going back and forth on this, and I think it’s because I’m unfamiliar with the name. A name like Ellie seems too nicknamey to me for a given name, but a name like Julie does not; it’s hard for me to figure out which one Zelie is more like. And again: SO SUBJECTIVE! The next person could say the exact opposite: that Ellie seemed like a given name, but Julie was clearly a nickname. I think if I can’t decide if it’s too nicknamey, that means for me it’s NOT too nicknamey.
3. Does this sibling group work with a possible future child named Blaise? I’d say yes, except that Rose and Blaise sound similar to me. But perhaps that is the very thing that helps tie the name group together. I do think the name Rose is going to stand out a little no matter what, just because it’s so familiar and the other names are less so.
4. You didn’t ask this, but I’m adding it: Do I think you should let your husband have his choice for the baby’s name because he’s been having a rough time lately? No. I think you should find other ways to comfort him. Get him a treat the next time you’re at the store, let him choose which TV show to watch, let him choose what you’re having for dinner. Choosing the baby’s name may improve his excitement/mood in the few weeks between now and the time the baby is born, but the name is forever.
If you’re looking for a compromise that lets your husband choose his favorite name but reduces the things you’ve found a little burdensome about unfamiliar names (the continual repeating/reminding/spelling/etc.), I wonder if it would work to spell it Zellie. Then you could say “Like Ellie, with a Z!” I think it would also significantly reduce mispronunciations: when I see Zellie, I immediately guess it rhymes with Ellie/jelly.
If you would like to instead look for a compromise that lets you choose one of your favorite names, I think Zelie makes a delightful middle name choice. Some combinations might need a little work (e.g., Tessa Zelie is not ideal to my ear), but adding another middle name could help with that (e.g., Tessa Claire Zelie).
You don’t mention Louise as a first-name option, but I love it and the similar name Louisa, which is apparently a saint name. Louisa Zelie? Avila, Rose, and Louisa.
Another possibility is Lucilla. Saint name, unusual, shares some sounds with Zelie, has the easy nickname Lucy.
One of my own favorite saint names is Winifred, and I love it so much with your surname, and it gives you the nicknames Winnie and Freddie. Avila, Rose, and Winifred. LOVE THIS.
I wanted very badly to suggest Josephine: it has some things in common with Genevieve, without the awkward similar-nickname Evie. But then I realized it just swaps the Avi/Evie issue for a Rosie/Josie issue.
Another option might be to name her Azalea and call her Zellie as a nickname. Here is what I like about this option:
1. It gives your husband a very unusual name, while giving you one that most people know how to pronounce.
2. It makes a link between the unusual name Avila and the more familiar flower-name Rose.
3. It gives you a nickname that isn’t too similar to Avi.
Here is what I don’t like about this option:
1. Avila and Azalea are more similar in appearance/letters than I would generally prefer for sibling names. (Though they do sound very different.)
2. For me, Zellie would not be a natural nickname for Azalea. (But I think it works fine.)
Name update:
It was great to read all of your thoughts and comments about the name Zelie! I think deep down I worry that when other people hear my baby’s unusual name, the initial response (even if not spoken aloud) is disapproval. So it was affirming to have so many people comment on the name, not one of whom said, “Are you nuts?! Don’t do it!”
Posting my letter also reopened the naming conversation with my husband, who really wanted to make sure that I was fully on board with whatever name we chose. I thought about ways that might help make the name Zelie Louise feel more like my choice also, and I liked the idea of giving the baby a second middle name in honor of my dad Norman. In the end, we decided to wait until the baby arrived to make a final decision.
I often find myself talking to the baby during labor, and this time I kept calling her Zelie—and that was pretty much the clincher for me. By the time she arrived I felt good about her name: Zelie Louise Nora. Thanks to all of you for your thoughts!
I 100% agree with all Swistle’s points. (Although I would have pronounced “Zelie” like “zeh-LEE.”)
I love the idea of naming the baby Azalea. Hazel might be another choice that is more familiar like Rose, but has a fairly natural way to get the Zelie nickname.
Congratulations!
Commenting today just because of this pronunciation! It seemed VERY clear to me from moment 1 that the instinctive pronunciation is “zuh-LEE” (maybe because it looks French and so the brain jumps to names like “Marie?”) but I didn’t see anyone else say that! Thank you for this validation :-)))
I really like Azelie Louise with the nn Zelie and like Swistle suggested would say Zelie like Ellie, instead of jelly. Also, I like the suggestion of Azalea but I like the French spelling better.
I have a very unique name and have to spell it and correct pronunciation all the time but I love my name and you’ll find new ways to explain how it sounds and at times, when is not important, like at Starbucks, you just say say “yes, like that” and move on.
I saw the Twitter poll before I saw the post and I voted for long e, because of the single L. I was surprised to see I was in the minority.
I like Azelie or Azalea or Hazel (from a previous commenter, very clever) better for the full name. I also like the idea of switching the order to use Louisa as a first name and putting Zelie (or a variant) in the middle name slot.
As a person who immediately knows that a girl name Avila refers to Saint Teresa of Avila, I would not find the sibling set of Avila, Rose, Zelie, and Blaise surprising. It does seem that three of the four names suit your husband style and only one suits yours. I would pronounce Zelie like Zaylee to match the French St. Zélie, but would not be at all surprised to learn that it was being pronounced to rhyme with jelly. I’m familiar with other girls that use that pronunciation.
I wonder if you might like Zelda, with the nickname of Zelie? It’s very sweet and zippy with your girls’ names, and it’s a nice bridge between the less-familiar Avila and the more common Rose.
Love this!!
I think Azelie Louise would be lovely – but I too would automatically pronounce Zelie Zeh-lie, French-style. I’m not a fan of the Zellie option but that’s probably because I’m a name purist!
I have a 15 year old niece named Zelie! She pronounces hers “ZAYlee”, but she also has an accent on the first e. That being said, I do think she commonly has trouble with people knowing how to pronounce it. But she doesn’t seem to mind, and I think it’s a beautiful name to look at.
Not to pass the buck, but this seems like a great post to mention the blog Sanctanomina: it seems tailor made for your dilemma. Lots of Avilas, Blaises and Zélies, but also lots of Roses and Catherines and Marys. And lots of questions about blending!
My own suggestion would be to choose a Marian name. So many good ones!
In answer to your questions: yes, yes and yes. I’d pronounce it “right” but i do think it’s nickname-y and i do feel Rose is a MAJOR outlier in that set.
I’m dying over Louisa though. She fits right in 🖤
Or Azalea as a compromise but i don’t love having two flowers and three daughters.
What about Adelaide or Cecilia if Louisa is a no go?
I recognised Avila and Zelie (like Jelly) right away, so I might not be a good sample, but I think your should use it if you love it. As a fellow “my heart sinks a little bit every time I have to clarify my child’s name” (Xavier) parent, I share your pain. But Avila shares this problem, and you still love it. I wouldn’t change my son’s name, even though it is annoying. “Zelie like Jelly” is at least fun and memorable (better than “Saoirse like inertia”). My impression is that Zelie is increasing in popularity so that might help too.
If you don’t love it… not sure. I have already (secretly) decided that I would let my husband use his perfect girl name if we have a daughter, even though I don’t love it, because I think it would help them bond.
Rose is a little different in the sib set, but not in a startling way, and to those who know her full name (who are usually the people who matter) it’s obviously not an outlier at all!
I love so much about this post because so MANY of my family names as well as top picks are on here. So I’m just going to list out my favorite baby names as inspiration maybe?
People That Exist Whose Names I Love:
Marion Louise
Tessa Rose
Ariana Louise
Other names on my top lists:
Adélie
Genevieve
Juliette
Claire (as a middle name, mostly)
I would have guessed Zelie like “ZEE-lee” but only because I didn’t know it was a French name (which, as a francophile / have a French degree / studied in France I am finding very disappointing about myself ;-) ). Anyway, I love the name! I would go with Azelie nn Zelie because WOW Azelie is such a beautiful name (this may come from idolizing Amelie growing up…). Or I like the suggestions of Azelea or Hazel nn Zelie as well, but I think you’ll end up with a lot of Zellie misspellings that way, which isn’t necessarily a reason not to do it, just something to take into consideration.
I am Catholic and recognized Avila and Zelie at once. If I encountered an English speaker with this name, I’d probably ask “Do you say it like zay-lee or zell-lee?” I love the suggestion of Zelie Louise, especially since Zelie and Louis were the parents of Thérèse, so the name honors a saintly family. And yes, Blaise seems like a natural sibling!
Thanks for all your comments on my questions, and I’m looking forward to seeing the Twitter poll results! I’d love to hear thoughts on Swistle’s point #4. What DO you do when you both like the other person’s baby name suggestion well enough to use it but deep down you like your baby name more? I know the tried-and-true advice is to go back to the drawing board, but what if you’ve been doing that for eight months and are still keep coming back to the same names? I guess so far what we’ve ended up doing is taking turns having the final say, (although of course the other person gave the stamp of approval on the name that was less their style.) Would YOU pick a name for your baby that the other person loved just because they loved it (and obviously you thought it was a good name too, even if not the one you would have picked as a single parent)?
The answer to your last question: sure! Left to my own devices, my second daughter would have been Delia Lenity. Left to his own devices, my husband would have named her Margaret Mayberry. Her name’s Cora Mayberry (full saga here: https://www.swistle.com/babynames/2017/09/15/baby-girl-stussman-without-the-t-sister-to-anna/ ) because we compromised. I didn’t pick Margaret, though, and he didn’t pick Delia. It helped that we loved multiple names, of course–I think that’s the best course of action. He loved Margaret, but I only liked it; vice versa for Delia. I also loved Elizabeth; he also loved Maya; we could have gone with any of them. We just didn’t go with the *favorite* name of either one of us.
Is there anything that you both love? Even if it’s not your most-favorite?
In that case, I’d wait to meet her. In my experience she either looks or seems like one of names on the table or neither (then you start over) . I never hear people say “we both still felt like our name was the best” :)
A fairly popular book, Children of Blood and Bone, has a main character named Zélie pronounced ZAY-Lee. My initial pronunciation would be the same, possibly because I have been reading the series. However, I do agree with Swistle that the Zellie spelling would lend to your preferred pronunciation.
I immediately thought of the money transfer app Zelle
So I probably wouldn’t use it.
When I first read the twitter poll, I saw “Zellie” and thought rhymes-with-Ellie. Then I re-read the name as “zelie” and I would pronounce it “Zee-lee”. I voted rhymes-with-Ellie since it was my first instinct. But in reality I’ll either spell wrong and pronounce right, or spell right and pronounce wrong category. (I used to have a co-worker named “Rossy” and pronounced “Rosie” and she ran into a lot of the same thing.).
I Love Louisa or Tessa or some of the other name options. I also agree that you should separate the hard time your husband is having with the naming issue. It’s just, it seems a little more placing importance on your husband and how he is doing than on your future daughter and what she needs.
I don’t know anything about saint names, but I do know a girl called Zanthy (though the typically spelling is Xanthe). For Zelie, it does seem like a nickname to me. I absolutely love the previous suggestion of Zelda with Zelie as a nickname though. Zelda Louisa is lovely and the nickname makes perfect sense.
I like Zelie; I’d probably guess zay-lee but I actually like zelly better so I’d be happy to be corrected. My first thought on seeing your list though is that Tessa would be so so good with a sister named for Teresa of Avila and another sister who has Therese as a middle name! It’s so subtle and so obvious all at once! Also – ok maybe this is a MAD STRETCH, but I like stretchy nicknames, and I think that Tessa with any L middle name (like, say, Louise) could be called Zelie/Zelly as a zippy family nickname that might end up sticking outside of the family too. Say Tessa Louise fast! I can hear it.
A note about kids, when you grow up with a kid with an unusual name, you don’t realize it until later. I had a Tika (TEE-kah) in my grade school and had no idea her name must have been surprising for our parents.
I think I’d prefer Tessa or Genevieve (who you could also call Viv, Genie, or even Jenny which in her age group would be highly unusual), or Azelie to Zelie. The first two lean more towards my own taste, and the 3rd feels more French and less unfamiliar, even though I don’t know either name. I think Azelie’s also a better bridge between Rose and Avila (and Blaise) than Zelie.
This is so true. I had lots of kids of immigrants in my elementary School classes and it never occurred to me that their names were “different.” And I see it again today with my kids–they are unphased by the names in their classes!
I would not know for sure that Zelie was French or saint. I would feel uncertain, but my first guess would be ZEE-lee and I’d be guessing it short for some childhood prononciation variation of Cecilia/Cecily. Clearly wrongly, but that was my first take! I think Azelie is beautiful and Zelie better as a nickname because it seems nickname-y to me. I also like Tessa.
I’ve often thought Elizabeth could take the nn Zelie, which might offer a nice compromise. Also, St. Zélie’s given name was not just Azélie, but Marie-Azélie, which might feel like a better combination of Avila’s and Rose’s styles (Zelie as a nickname) — having Avila’s middle name be Marie isn’t a problem, since giving all daughters a Marian name is very traditional for Catholics (Rose is one too!). Or maybe Mary Azelie? I think I love that even more! Finally, the commenter who pointed out the Teresa thread in your older daughters’ names was brilliant! For that reason, I love Tessa! (Though it could be hard to keep that going with future daughters.)
I know a spunky and sweet girl named Azalea, who almost exclusively goes by Zellie. I love it!
I’m seconding the reference to Children of Blood and Bone. It is an EXTREMELY popular young adult novel, and soon to be film series. Possibly on par with Hunger Games if they do a good job with the films! I wonder if that might make you feel better about Zélie’s popularity? I would definitely pronounce it Zay-Lee. I like it a lot! It’s on my list too.
Add me to the list of someone who knows a few Zelies. They all pronounce it ZAY-lee. One of them has sisters named Chiara and Kateri. Maybe one of those is your style?
Oh I love Tessa sooo much. I have a Tessa in my class this year, and she is sweet and so smart and spunky. She’s the kind of girl that kids and teachers all love. I like all the names you suggested, but Tessa / Tess is my favorite!
I read the name Zelie in my brain as ZAY-lee. But, if you told me it was a nickname for Azelie, I would definitely pronounce it like Zelly, assuming that the full name would be pronounced AH-zel-lee. I hope that makes sense. That said, I don’t think the name Zelie is too nicknamey at all.
At the risk of being unhelpful I want to say that you have some fantastic name options here and you can’t go wrong with any of them. Azelie Louise or Zelie Louise = swoon. Genevieve “C”arrot is so pretty I die a little. Tessa! So cute. Any of these go with a potential future Blaise.
And, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with favoring a name because it’s your husband’s favorite. I would say differently if it was a name you really disliked and/or your husband was pressuring or guilting you into it. But none of that seems the case here. It seems like this is a name you like almost just as well as the ones on your list. And the facts that (1) it’s your spouse’s favorite, and (2) your spouse is having trouble feeling excited for the baby and this could help with that are both perfectly good and valid things to take into account when choosing a name. Obviously it has to be something you both like, but if the fact he likes it and needs a little something extra to get him excited makes you like it a little more then I’d say that is admirable and lovely and it makes me a little misty just thinking about it.
Good luck!
So long as Mr. Carrot’s troubles aren’t clinical like mine were. Even in my darkest spot, I could see random kind moments and random funny things, like my nausea over communion wafers(wth???) but nothing but therapy and zoloft could allow me look forward to my daughter’s birth.
Some Catholic context here:
1. Zelie Louise is for St. Zelie and St. Louis Martin, parents of St. Therese
2. There are 3 major saint Theresas: St. Theresa of Avila, St. Therese (known as the little rose) and St. Theresa of Calcutta (Mother Theresa)
So if they choose Tessa, they can pick Mother Theresa as the patron saint, and get the 3 Theresas lol
And if they choose Zelie, the name is already tied with her older sister’s name, Rose.
A nice bridge name would be Felicity – a saint name that’s not unheard, yet not top 100.
I also like Stella Maris for this family – it’s a common first name, and a nature name like Rose, yet the first+middle is super Catholic, like Avila. Her dad could call her Stella Maris, but on some occasions she could be introduced simply as Stella.
Or Marigold: you get St. Mary, a flower name like Rose, and a name that’s not on the top 1000.
Genevieve could go by Ginny or Geneva (Geneva gets you a city name, just like Avila), instead of Evie.
And I’m sure this mom already thought of this, but Avila can always be introduced as Ava on some occasions.
Thank you for the catholic context! This was helpful :)
1. I pronounce Zelie more like “zeh-LEE” than “ZEH-lee”. I know of one Zellie (pronounced like “jelly”) and two Zelies (one like ZAY-lee and one like zay-LEE).
2. It does seem nickname-y to me, but I also know that St. Zelie was born Marie-Azelie. I’m not sure the general public would know it was originally a nickname. I know of one Azelie (nn Zelie) as well, but I do think it is unnecessary, especially because you’re already worried about pronunciation.
3. Stylistically, Rose does stand out as a bit of an outlier. But with a Catholic context, all of these names seem like siblings to me (I know many such sets in real life).
I would pick a name that the other parent loved, provided I at least liked it as well. However, I don’t think you should feel obligated to do so.
How about a different nickname for Genevieve? Genna would work well with Avi and Rosie. Vivi is less likely to be confused with Avi than Evie is. Neve could work.
I obviously love the name, as I adopted it for my nom du commenter, but I do think Evie and Avi would be difficult.
I really love the suggestions of Zelie as a nickname for Hazel and for Elizabeth but I also like it on it’s own. I do think Rose will be an outlier in style with Zelie, Avila and Blaise but I don’t think many people would notice that. In regard to what to do when both parents love different names, I’m of the mindset that the person who is pregnant and delivering the child gets more say but I know not everyone would feel that way!
So, I like Zelie. My natural inclination would be to pronounce it with more of a French intonation (zuh-lee or even zay-lee) but I think I could learn quickly to say it more like Ellie.
I do know a young lady named Zella if you’re looking for an alternative. Zella Louise, nn Zel or Zellie, would be very sweet.
One suggestion: Malou. It’s a French name short for Mary Louise. When I saw Louise as the middle I instantly thought of it, because Mary and Louise are both easy to say and somewhat common but Malou is unique and fun and just plain cool.
My first thought was to pronounce it “Zaylie”. Of the suggestions, I love the idea of Hazel called Zellie. It seems to me to be the best option to both go well with Avila & Rose and to get husband’s desired name/pronunciation as well. Can’t wait to hear what you decide!
I like all of your options (and I would also pronounce Zelie as “Zeh-lee”), but since you’re still not 100% sure about it, here are few more possibilities (all of them are saints’ names):
Clelia
Faustina
Viviana
Ida
Paula
Veridiana
Sabina
Silvia
Emilia
Juliana
Clara
Helena
Beatrice
Eulalia
Gemma
My friend has a baby Zelie pronounced “Zeh-lee” and the dad is from France, I think it is a beautiful name!
What about Zelie Therese or Zelie Claire? In times like this I like to remember Swistles reassurance that all of these are excellent, serviceable names and you are just trying to pick your favorite from many great options! That took the stress off of my last baby naming endeavor!
This isn’t a saint name but what about naming her Zoe? It’s more common like you like but it has the Z sound he likes and it goes with Blaise and Rose. It doesn’t go the best with Avila but I don’t think most people would notice and if on the off chance they did they’d probably just assume that your style has changed as you’ve had kids. Off your list I’d go for Tess.
Zoe is a saint’s name! There’s St. Zoe of Rome, and Zoe was also the birth name of St. Catherine Laboure (Catherine was her religious name).
Not being familiar with the religious context, Zelie seems like a trendy name. (I know trendy can read two ways, so let me be clear…. I mean a la mode, stylish, contemporary.). Avila and Blaise fit that category too. Like you are picking names that mirror the current top 100 but are more unique (which is also a modern inclination). Ava, Miles, and Amelie/Ellie…Avila, Blaise and Zelie. In fact this fits your goal. You like top 100 he likes outside the top 1000. So for me Zelie fits with those two names. Rose does seem like the outlier, but frankly I probably wouldn’t have spent much time wondering and I’m here!
Pronunciation, I wouldn’t have known but would have tried zuh-Lee.
As for hubby getting to pick, I guess it depends on how permanent this “bad time” is. If ephemeral, no. If it is something that will limit her long term relationship with him, then yes. It becomes more of his gift to her.
Best of luck
My husband suddenly came up with a name we had never even considered 2 days before my son was born. It was not a name I liked, but I didn’t hate it either. He was convinced it was the name. We used it, putting our previous front runner as his middle name instead. I was unsure – it felt strange to introduce my baby by this name I had never even thought about 2 days earlier – but after a while I grew used to it and now I love it.
All this is just to say a name can unexpectedly charm you once its associated with your baby. If it means a lot to your husband, it can grow to be meaningful to you too.
If Zelie Louise, then:
1. Would you guess that you said the name Zelie like “jelly”? Yes
2. Does it seem too much of a nickname-y name to you? Nope, just seems Catholic.
3. The name we’d probably use if we have a boy in the future is Blaise. Does Avila, Rose, Zelie, and Blaise make the name Rose stand out as an outlier? Nope, not at all. Seems like a very Catholic family with great name style.