Hello Swistle,
I’ve been reading your site for years, but never expected to need to send in a question. As a life-long name lover, feeling stumped on a name is new to me.
So here’s our quandary: a middle name for baby boy Frye, last name sounds like Tommy with a D. Baby is due at the end of November, on Thanksgiving. He will be our third and last baby. Big sisters are Josephine Louise (4 years old), usually called Jo, and Alice Lane (2 years old), called Alice and Al. Mom and dad are Lindsay and Gage.
Our naming style is classic and old fashioned, easy to pronounce and recognizable, preferably not absurdly popular (Alice is more common than we usually like). We’re not big on biblical names. We don’t typically use family names. Dad prefers more unusual names than Mom. Big sister Jo nicknamed the baby French Fry, which is how we got the idea to use Frye.
Other favorites on the list that don’t sound quite right as the middle:
Calvin
Simon
Griffin
Felix
Oscar
Basil
Rowan
AlexanderNames inspired by or related to nature are a plus. Names with literary significance are a plus as well. Our girls have literary inspired names (Josephine for Little Women and Alice for Alice in Wonderland) and it makes my book loving, English major heart happy.
Thank you for considering our question!
Sincerely,
Lindsay
The first thing I notice is that the name Frye with your surname forms the word “Fried.” When I pretend to be calling on the phone and I say the first and last names together, neither first name nor last is clear to me.
The second thing I notice is that the name Frye is an outlier for your reported style of classic, old-fashioned, recognizable. Frye as a name is not in current usage in the United States, and I’m not finding indications that it ever has been. I’m familiar with it only from the character Fry in the cartoon Futurama—and in that case, it’s his surname. The Social Security Administration, which makes available for public viewing any name that was used for at least five babies of either sex in a particular year, does not have the name Frye in its database for 2018. Nor for 2017. Nor for 2016. Nor for 2015. Nor for 2010, 2005, 2000, 1995, 1990, 1985, 1980, 1975, 1970, 1965, 1960, 1955, 1950, 1945, 1940, 1935, 1930, 1925, 1920, 1915, 1910, 1905, 1900, 1895, or 1890, and that’s where I run out of records to check. You would be choosing to use as a name something that is not currently used as a name in the United States, which is an absolutely fine thing to do, but not if what you want is a classic, old-fashioned, easy, recognizable name.
If you’re consciously choosing to break with your usual style, and ready to accept without irritation all the repeating/spelling/explaining that comes with choosing something very unfamiliar, then you have my full support and all the assistance I can give; and anyway you have said that you are looking for help with the middle name, not with the first. But I would like to suggest the possibility of using Frye as the middle name, where it can be an adorable story without being a hassle. Calvin Frye [T]ommy, for example. (Though that would give the potential for Al and Cal in the family, which I don’t mind with nicknames but I know some prefer to avoid. Fine, how about Simon Frye [T]ommy as the example.)
When I do a middle name challenge, I start by saying the first and last names aloud, again and again, to see if a RHYTHM for the middle name stands out to me. “Frye…[T]ommy, Frye…[T]ommy, Frye…[T]ommy,” etc. After awhile I might start feeling a “da DA da da” or “DA da” or “da da da” or whatever, filling in the gap. If nothing stands out particularly rhythm-wise, I switch to just trying a whole bunch of names to see what seems good: I will just take a baby name book and skim through it fast, trying every single combination until I get a feel for it. “Frye Aaron [T]ommy, Frye Art [T]ommy, Frye Abbott [T]ommy, Frye Abe [T]ommy…” and so on. I would jot down anything that seemed to sound right; and, after awhile, I sometimes find a certain sound begins to stand out to me: maybe I notice I like two-syllable names, or maybe I notice I want a strong consonant, or maybe I notice I’d prefer to avoid strong consonants, or whatever.
I also keep a sharp eye on initials: I prefer for initials not to spell anything, though I’m willing to bend if the name is worth it. For F_D, I’d prefer to avoid names starting in A, E, K, T, U, W. But for most of those, it’s not a deal-breaker for a name I really want to use, just something I want to take into consideration before making the final decision.
I don’t think the sound of first-name-into-middle-name is anywhere near as important as first-name-into-last-name, since in most cases it’s rare for the middle name to be said aloud. But I do take it into account somewhat.
I find one-syllable first names in general more difficult to find middle names for, as you might be picking up on from all this general information that fails to give any actual suggestions. The thing is, it’s so subjective. So if I were you, I would be starting in the A section of the name book and just going through the whole thing. Do it over multiple sessions so your brain doesn’t get tired and start skimming.
How did you choose your daughters’ middle names? If literary names are a plus, it seems like that would be a very good place to start if you haven’t already: favorite authors, favorite characters in literature.
From your list, Alexander is my favorite. I don’t love the initials, but they’re pretty harmless; it’s not as if we’re talking about Alexander Simon Smith. Frye Alexander [T]ommy is a nice rhythm. More possibilities:
Frye Alcott [T]ommy
Frye Augustus [T]ommy
Frye Benjamin [T]ommy
Frye Beckett [T]ommy
Frye Bennett [T]ommy
Frye Charles [T]ommy
Frye Christopher [T]ommy
Frye Eliot [T]ommy
Frye Emerson [T]ommy
Frye Ezekiel [T]ommy
Frye Finnegan [T]ommy
Frye Harrison [T]ommy
Frye Jasper [T]ommy
Frye Jeremiah [T]ommy
Frye Henry [T]ommy
Frye Gideon [T]ommy
Frye Jonathan [T]ommy
Frye Lawrence [T]ommy
Frye Lewis [T]ommy
Frye Malachi [T]ommy
Frye Matthew [T]ommy
Frye Nathaniel [T]ommy
Frye Oliver [T]ommy
Frye Sawyer [T]ommy
Frye Sebastian [T]ommy
Frye Sullivan [T]ommy
Frye Theodore [T]ommy
Frye Truman [T]ommy
Frye Whitman [T]ommy
With an extremely unusual first name, I’d personally lean more toward the familiar middle names: Benjamin, Henry, Jonathan, Lewis, Matthew, etc.
Name update:
Hi Swistle!
Just wanted to update everyone on our final name choice. Baby arrived a day before Thanksgiving and we didn’t make a final decision on his name until he was 5 days old. Josephine Louise and Alice Lane are over the moon about their baby brother Frye Marshall. We considered the reservations about Frye from you and your readers, and we strongly considered changing the first name in the weeks leading up to his birth. Once he was born, we just knew that he was a Frye after all. Our two year old greeting him with “Hi Frye!” On repeat when she met him for the first time reaffirmed our choice.
The middle name was a challenge. Even after he was born, nothing sounded quite right. My dad suggested my maiden name, Marshall, and my husband later said that he thought it was the right choice. We’re not usually ones to use family names, but nothing else was sounding right, and it does hold a lot of meaning. It sounds good, it has a nice flow, its balanced. It’s a name that I’ve always loved. I gave it up for my married name because it was so important to my husband, but I miss it. Plus, it’s a cool name and more in line with our usual naming style. If he decides that Frye is too out there for him, he’ll have a more traditional middle name that he can go by. Our Josephine decided just the week before last that she is no longer Jo, she is now Josie. So we’re all about the options here.
I’ve included a picture of the very excited big sisters holding baby brother.
Thank you for all of the help!
Lindsay
Second everything Swistle said about Frye. Don’t forget to do the Starbucks test!
Your daughters share a middle initial; would it be nice if your son did too? Lewis is nice for literary tie-in—you get both Lewis Carroll (if that’s nice too much Alice) and C.S. Lewis.
If you’re not AGAINST family names, Lindsay is great and very elegant as a masculine middle name. (Easier to pull off than a first.)
Personally I like 3-syllable options.
I think Frye is a really cute, unique name and I love the story behind it, but I also think it is slightly problematic with (T)ommy. It blends together in a way that I worry might be confusing and I can’t stop thinking it sounds a bit like a Japanese delicacy. I’m sorry!! I know you didn’t ask about first name. I think Frye would be an adorable middle name with any of the names you listed. I especially love it with Alexander.
I know the letter writer wasn’t looking for feedback on the first name but…I just wanted to throw in there that for me, almost every example made ‘Frye’ sound like a verb, and a moderately unkind one. What about just Rye? Or maybe Kai. Or Skye, maybe even Schuyler? Same/similar sounds, without the verb problem.
For me too. It’s probably one reason “Cook” is a popular surname, but hasn’t been used widely as a surname-turned-first-name.
If I heard it in the wild, I would probably assume Frye was a family name, to justify the slightly unfortunate wordplay.
Or Frederick Rye, thus the nickname FRye.
I also think that Swistle is spot on in her remarks, and all of her suggestions for a middle name are good.
Hm, I may be a bit out of line now, but I’m personally not so sure that using Frye as a first name is a great idea… It really brings fry/fried to mind (especially with your surname), and doesn’t pair well with beautiful, classic names of Alice and Josephine.
Maybe using Frederick instead of Frye could be an option? Josephine, Alice and Frederick would make a perfect sibset, and you can use Frye as a cool nickname (especially since Josephine is called Jo and Alice Al). But this is just my personal opinion, I really hope you don’t feel offended!
Great suggestion!! Frederick nicknamed Frye.
Or EPHRAIM, nicknamed Frye. (Though that one is biblical.)
I think I’d prefer to have either of those on my birth certificate. I actually like Frye (or French-Frye) a lot as a cute nickname.
I love the suggestion of Frederick with the nickname Frye! So cute and perfect with his sisters.
How about Francis or Frank, which actually mean Frenchman? Then you could nickname him Fry(e) and have Jo, Al, and (French) Fry. And, if Frye does not wear well as he gets older, he could always have Frank as a name or nickname that fits the style of your others. Jo, Al, and Frank.
I saw Basil on your almost-but-not-quite list and it made me think of Timothy. It’s a plant and a classic boy’s name, which ticks two of your boxes. Or maybe William. You could call him Sweet William as a family nickname.
It’s harder to suggest a literary name because I think that depends so much on the books you personally love, but I knew a family with a Harry (Harrison), an Alice, and a Lucy and I loved how all their names were from children’s fantasy literature (whether or not that was the intent– I was always curious but never asked). I probably wouldn’t use Harry as a middle with your surname (too sing-songy) but it could set you on a path of similar names.
I am only aware of Frye as in the boots, whereas I am familiar with your daughters’ names as names.
I haven’t read the comments but with your surname it really sounds like Fried Omi to me, like some sort of delicacy or something. What about the nickname Frye? Frederick nn Frye perhaps?
I know that’s not the question you are asking and I try very hard not to be critical of a chosen name!
So for the middle name I like classic names that go well with your daughters’ first names. What about Theodore?
I agree with Swistle comments about Frye. And with the preference for nature names, it starts to sound a bit like food or something. Frye Basil for example just doesn’t work (though it could be a gray name for a Thai restaurant). I’ll also suggest using Frye as a nickname for something else. I saw Frederick mentioned above, but the story behind Frye leads to more of the type of nickname that isn’t associated with the actual name. Think Tiger or Butch.
If you decide to keep Frye, I would absolutely suggest something recognizable and even common as a middle name. I grew up with an unusual name and there time I would have loved a popular middle name to fall back on. Not everyone wants to stand out, especially around those middle school years. I’d probably look for a nice traditional “standard” name like Alexander, Thomas, William, Robert, James, etc.
I just said Frye (T)ommy a few times out loud, and all I hear is Fried On Me.
So I feel bad that previous comments (my own included) have all piled on with respect to a point that wasn’t part of your question (the usability of the first name Frye), but the more I think about this, the more I wonder if the first name might really be the reason you’re having issues with finding that your middle-name choices “don’t sound quite right.” Frye/fry is such a specific, evocative word–it has a smell and a sound!–that perhaps Frye Calvin and Frye Alexander just don’t work for you at a psychological level. (And I agree with the above commenter that Frye Basil is a non-starter.)
Because, for example, if the name in question were Kai, all the middle names you’ve ruled out suddenly sound very nice:
Kai Calvin
Kai Simon
Kai Griffin
Kai Felix
Kai Oscar
Kai Basil
Kai Rowan
Kai Alexander
(Some more than others.)
Kai is not your style as described (although Frye isn’t either), but what about Ty, or Frazer/Fraser?
Or just Frye without a middle name, since they are not mandatory?
I had to reread the title of this post because I figured the question was about Frye. Also at first glance it’s very similar to Fyre as in Festival – though not sure how long that reference will be relevant. I like the suggestions of using Frye as a nickname or in the middle spot. Other ideas: Francis, Fritz, Francisco. Also if you like the Frye sound a more familiar name like Bryan or Briar might appeal.
I’ve been thinking it over, and it’s very difficult for me to find a middle name that works with Frye. I see why you are having so much trouble! (And you’re a veteran good namer!)
I find myself agreeing with a lot of others in the idea to scoot Frye to the middle… it’s unexpected and cool! I imagined him being called “small Frye” in, say, fourth grade by some bigger fifth graders, and the thought made me angry with the hypothetical fifth-graders. In the middle name spot, it keeps the teasing at a distance and the awesome factor cranked up.
Oscar Frye (T)ommy is just amazing. And Oz as a nickname?? Oh, SO literary! (It comes with the whole “great and powerful Oz” tagline!)
You’ll find just the right moniker for your little mister. Best wishes and congrats!
Yes to Oscar Frye, nicknamed Oz! Then you have three classic names with 3 two-syllable nicknames— Jo, Al, and Oz! Dreamy!
No matter what I put in the blank, “Frye ___ [T]ommy” sounds like a pro-capital-punishment chant about a criminal.
I’d go for Frye as the middle. It’s a cool middle name! And you could pick another name you love for the first! And call him whatever!
I’d also thought of Frederick nicknamed Frye so I’ll second that. All of your potential middle names go with Frederick as a first and middle names do not need to coordinate with the nickname. If not Frederick, there’s Wilfred. Or you have Griffin on your list, that might work too?
Agree with everyone that Frye is a lot to saddle a kid with and would be simpler to work with in the middle spot.
How about Glen or Glenn? A nice nature name, not too popular but completely identifiable as a name. Linden or Lyndon works well too.
“Our naming style is classic and old fashioned, easy to pronounce and recognizable, preferably not absurdly popular.”
So “Frye” is definitely easy to pronounce, recognizable, and not popular, but it’s not a classic name. In fact it’s probably about as far from a classic name as it’s possible to get without getting into random keyboard smash territory. I agree with the other commenters that possibly you’re getting stuck finding a middle name because you’ve chosen a first name that is outside your stated style preference, and that Frye might work better for you in the middle name slot.
I have to agree with what everyone else said about Frye. But I think it could make a great middle name! Using Swistle’s list rearranged, here are the ones I like best:
Augustus Frye [T]ommy – nn Gus
Benjamin Frye [T]ommy – nn Ben
Beckett Frye [T]ommy – nn Beck
Eliot Frye [T]ommy
Harrison Frye [T]ommy – nn Harris or Harry
Lawrence Frye [T]ommy
Lewis Frye [T]ommy
Sawyer Frye [T]ommy
Sebastian Frye [T]ommy
Theodore Frye [T]ommy – nn Theo
Whitman Frye [T]ommy
(I think Alcott is too close to Alice.)
I also love Oscar Frye!
Other ideas…
Fitzgerald Frye [T]ommy – nn Fitz
Everett Frye [T]ommy – nn Ev
Julian Frye [T]ommy – nn Jules
Ezra Frye [T]ommy – nn Ez, Ezzie
Silas Frye [T]ommy – nn Si/Sy
Dorian Frye [T]ommy – if you’re ok with alliteration
Ok – I’m clearly an outlier but I thought ‘Frye, cool name’. :) Stephen Fry is well-known here, which may be skewing my perceptions. I did have trouble though when I added your surname. You would have to cultivate a clear stop between the two to avoid the Fried sound. Caveat – I don’t have an American accent.
My thought was that Frye Samuel sounded good so perhaps a 3 syllable name?
Just another thought – I think the ‘named after the sister’s nickname’ thing is gorgeous if he grows up to like his name. If he doesn’t it is a potential source of tension. It could have the feel that you prioritised the daughter’s feelings about choosing the name over giving your son your favourite name. Lots of big siblings want to name the baby something like plum or jelly or spiderman – they are nice stories but rarely extend post pregnancy.
As I fellow English major, I LOVE your daughters’ name and I like the suggestion of giving your son on equally literary name. Some ideas:
Philip nn Frye or Flip
Francis nn Frye
Sebastian Frye
Edmund Frye
Walter Frye
Nathaniel Frye
Christopher Frye
Or Benedict Frye! I was going to suggest Lawrence but it made think of Friar Lawrence from Romeo and Juliet.
I would either put Frye in the middle or let it go down in the baby book as a memory of the pregnancy. I know lots of people who call the baby Bean because of an ultrasound photo but it doesn’t stick once the baby arrives. I’m sorry; I know this isn’t the feedback you expected. It just seems very problematic, and I’d rather see you end your baby-naming days on a high note.
Aye, that. Mom called my little brother “elf” when she was expecting him. What she didn’t expect was that his father would tack Elf to the end of the agreed upon name when at the hospital, without her knowledge. Mike’s been pretending it doesn’t exist for since kindergarten. Not that Frye would be as embarrassing as being a grown man with the name “Elf,” but it’s kind of a risk.
Frye is an unusual name, and when people hear unusual names, they tend to ask their meaning/origin.
So, you want to have a good answer to that, like a family name, or a significant name from your cultural backgorund.
Imagine your child answering over and over again, even in professional contexts decades from now: “My sister called me French fry”. To me, it’s just not good enough (it might even sound like he’s joking).
So, I suggest picking another name. Your middle name options are more like the naming style you describe.
I am going to be the lone person who loves Frye Tommy. I don’t understand the posters picking this name apart. I love how it sounds with the Jo, Al, Frye. So I hope you don’t get discouraged and talked out of a name that you love. I get that we like flow into the last name But come on. What a great name to yell at to support your child in a swim meet or soccer game. It is cool without trying.
My suggestion is Frye Fitzgerald Tommy
I like the suggestions of moving Frye to the middle or using as a nickname for something like Phineas Ryan
or Frederick. Though Futurama is a positive reference for Fry as a name for me.
Frye William
Frye Thomas
Frye Alexander
I think the story “your sister called you french fry” will be absolutely maddening for the kid if he doesn’t end up liking the name itself. The meaning is tender, but very juvenile. Another vote to pop it in the middle spot.
So sorry to jump all over your name choice, but I do think I would reconsider Frye. What about Franklin? It does lend well to the nickname of Fry/Frye, plus Benjamin Franklin, Franklin Roosevelt, and Rosalind Franklin, which aren’t exactly literary connections but are still great namesakes! Josephine, Alice, and Franklin. Jo, Al, and Fry (or Frank, should he want it, but I actually like Fry as a nickname for Franklin!)