Hi Swistle,
I have a question for you and your readers regarding hyphenated middle names.
A little background – we have four kids and are expecting our fifth, and likely last, baby in the fall. Our four kids are named Eli Michael (mn after my dad), Ezra Matthew (mn after my husband), Emmeline Kaye (mn after my mother-in-law) and Eben Jacob (mn after my grandfather). We pronounce our daughter’s full name as Em-eh-LEEN, but mostly call her Emme (pronounced like Emmie). The first names are all names that we loved and middle names all honor various family members. Now we are expecting another girl and will likely follow the pattern of choosing an E name that we like for the first name and a family name for the middle name. Our top choice right now is Eulalie, with Elisabeth and Edwina as distant alternatives. In terms of middle names, we’d like to honor my grandmother Ada. I like the sound of Eulalie Ada, but not nearly as much as that of Eulalie Ada-Rose. (Rose is not a family name, just a name we like.) Other family names we’ve considered are Bella (my other grandmother’s name) and Anna (my name), but I like Ada-Rose the most, I think.
And that brings me to my question. I know plenty of people have hyphenated last names, but what about a hyphenated middle name? My husband thinks I’m created unnecessary difficulties, but I like Eulalie Ada-Rose considerably more than Eulalie Ada Rose, and I like that a hyphen makes it clear that Ada-Rose are both part of the middle name and not part of the first name. But is it worth the trouble? What is the trouble, exactly? This is unchartered territory for us so I was curious if you or your readers had any insights.
Thank you! We really appreciate it.
I haven’t had to manage a hyphen before, so I will be very interested to hear what complications people with hyphens have had: do some forms not accept them? do some forms eliminate them? do people sometimes omit them accidentally, creating hyphenless mash-ups? etc.
But I HAVE dealt with a double middle name, so I can tell you two things that appeal to me right away about your hyphen idea:
1. It makes it clear that the two names are both middle names. We occasionally (at least, before I learned to head it off at the pass) had people thinking that the second middle name was part of a two-name surname.
2. It gives you ONE middle initial even though you get both names. We fairly regularly encounter forms that allow for only one middle initial, and it bothers me to have to pick one. Eulalie Ada-Rose would have the middle initial “A.”
And in your particular case, there is one more reason to favor the hyphen:
3. All the other kids have one middle name, not two; using Ada-Rose makes it feel like one middle name. It’s no big deal to suddenly break the pattern—but I say that with a deep forehead wrinkle. It would bother me a little, though I do feel that with The Last Baby you can pretty easily use the explanation “We ran out of babies but not out of names!” or “It was our one last chance to use Rose!” or whatever.
But also one reason to be against it:
1. All of the other kids have family middle names, and now this last child’s middle would be a family name combined with a non-family name. It dilutes the honor and changes the pattern. Especially if your Grandma Ada is still alive, I wouldn’t want to make her wonder why everyone else got their name honored as-is, but hers was modified. Again: it’s no big deal to break a pattern if you want to. But: deep forehead wrinkle.
Name update:
Hi Swistle,
Thank you so much to you and to your readers for posting our question regarding a hyphenated middle name for our fifth child whom we planned to call Eulalie. For nearly all of this pregnancy that was our top choice for our daughter’s name, but towards the last couple weeks my husband wanted to find something “less frilly and more solid”. We went back to the drawing board and both agreed that we liked the nickname Edie. Our baby girl was born on November 1 (just barely missing a Halloween birthday) and we were still going back and forth between Elodie and Edolie. We picked Elodie initially, but it just didn’t seem to match her spunky little personality. After spending a little more time with her, I new Edith was the right name for our little girl. For her middle name, I wanted to honor one of the women on my side of the family since our older daughter’s middle name is after my wonderful mother-in-law. Finally, we landed on Annabel as a middle name with Anna after yours truly and “Bel” after my late maternal grandmother, Bella. I am a bit sad that we didn’t incorporate my other grandmother’s name (Ada) into Edith’s name somehow, but I do love Annabel as a m.n. for our little Edith (I was also considering Adabel, but didn’t like it as much) and I know my late grandma Ada would have absolutely approved. Thank you again for all your advice. We can’t wait to take baby Edith home today and introduce her to all her big brothers and sister.
Best,
Anna
Is this an up/down vote? I have not personally encountered a hyphenated middle name, but my vote is yes for Ada-Rose
The older kids all have four syllables and this one would have six. Would that bother you?
I know it’s hard, when you have a super specific naming pattern and a lot of kids. It’s easy to feel painted into a corner. I feel like Ada-Rose is you feeling that exact pressure, that you would like to step out a little bit. Or do you think it’s because it’s your probable last child, and you just want to pull out all the stops?
I agree that Ada Rose and Adarose are different than Ada-Rose. I don’t know that the hyphen will cause any problems with forms. Do you feel like there is any way you can live without Rose? If not, I would just say go with Ada-Rose and let the world figure out how to deal with what’s before them. They might not be able to accommodate the hyphen on every form, but surely it’s not going to prevent her doing anything she wants in life.
This is so interesting. My parents gave me two middle names and hyphenated it and its gotten confusing because my social security card has no hyphen. But my birth certificate and drivers license do have a hyphen. Then my daughters birth certificate not only has both parents name spelled wrong but my name has no hyphen on that certificate. So I appreciate now knowing its at least recognized as easy to mix up, and not just me.
Our last child – and only daughter – has a hyphenated middle name, after her two grandmothers. Her three brothers each have one middle name (after their grandfathers and my maiden name, respectively). I love that it’s hyphenated, to make clear that, yes, these are both middle names. I’m with Swistle, though, that it would give me pause that the second middle isn’t an honor name. But it wouldn’t be a deal-killer for me.
My person preference, if I was naming this baby, would be keep only Ada as the middle name (to keep the family middle name consistent between all the kids) but use Ada-Rose as a family nickname especially if there isn’t a go-to nickname for Eulalie (U-lee, La-lee?) like you have for Emme.
My great-grandma was an Eula (pronounced Ewe-lah.) That may be a short version of Eulalie, and would make a decent nickname too.
Our daughter has a hyphenated last name. I don’t regret it and I don’t really know how else we would have done it (her only having my husband’s last name was a non starter for me and while he offered that she just have my last name, that didn’t seem fair either), I have to admit it can cause some issues. Some systems can’t pick it up. Weirdly the hyphen is entered as an apotrophe a lot. Sometimes her names get mashed in to one megalong name. We live in a society where more and more people are hyphenating, but we haven’t really caught up yet technologically.
That being said! You aren’t often entering middle names in to forms. I bet most of this won’t be an issue for your daughter. I say go for it.
I just want to agree with all of this. I have a hyphenated last name and each computer system plugs it in differently. This is occasionally an issue for me, but with a middle name I just don’t think it’ll come up often.
However, I have a slight preference for Ada by itself, mostly because I just really like Ada!
I hyphenated my last name when I got married, and I will say that I have been surprised by how many systems just can’t handle a hyphen. Sometimes it’s no problem, and sometimes I’m trying to sign up for Netflix or whatever and keep getting an error message every time I submit. The most annoying of these has been airlines. (Which makes no sense, because you would think when you’re flying and they’re asking for identification all the time they would want your ticket to match the name on your ID!) Now when I fly, I never know if my last name is all one word, or two separate names when I go to sign in to my rewards accounts.
But all of that said, I would imagine that a person has to write their full middle name very rarely on internet forms, so I would think it would impact your daughter even less than it impacts those of us with hyphenated first or last names. Unlike apostrophes, hyphens can be put on a Social Security card, so you won’t run into problems with that. (I’m still astounded that in this day and age the SSA can’t type an apostrophe on a SS card.)
I love the sound of Ada-Rose and think you should go for it!
Since it’s the middle name, which as Swistle has covered is not part of the legal name, I don’t think you should worry about any confusion or difficulty that might arise from the hyphen. It WILL be done incorrectly sometimes, and you will be subjected to the sight of Adarose or just plain Ada every so often, but that won’t change your (and her) understanding of what her name actually is.
On the other hand, I am compelled by Swistle’s counterpoint! If your grandmother is still living, I think you should consider using just Ada.
Any interest in Eulalie-Rose Ada?
I realized after sending this that a hyphenated first is a bigger issue. Ignore my last line above!
My sister’s name is hyphenated-think Anna-Lisa and like others on this thread, she has indeed encountered problems, from bizarre to lame, anytime her. And is entered into any database or typed on any form. Lots of headaches. She says she would never wish a hyphen on anyone and wishes she had just been Annalisa. BUT everyone else loves it and thinks it’s cool. So you just have to wonder if the headache for your daughter will outweigh your joy and I have to say, NO IT WON’T, especially I. the middle name slot where misspellings won’t hurt her heart as much as they would on her first name. Which…Eulalie will bring its own challenges so you’ll be ready.
Oh and looking at all my typos you can see what you’re up against, but that is MY fault not yours :)
My son is 3 & we gave him a hyphenated middle name…Rowland-Jackson. Both happen to be family names, but only added the second part after my grandfather passed during my pregnancy. We chose a hyphen because it simplified the middle initial issue (it’s R) & I didn’t want to be too confusing with 2 middle names. I was afraid if we used 2 separate middle names that the second one would be forgotten or left off due to space & whatnot. So far it hasn’t caused any issues, but we haven’t started school yet either. I say go for Ada-Rose!
I would use Eulaie AdaRose. No hyphen, but a capital R, no space.
Also to add, we have a 3 month old daughter & her middle name is just one we liked & not after anyone. I went back & forth, stressing over whether her middle name needed to be a family name or not because our son’s was. (We don’t have great names to choose from: Irene, Peggy, Phyllis, Thelma, etc). In the end, I said screw it & just went with what I liked even though it didn’t follow brother’s name pattern. We are only having the 2, so it isn’t as big of an issue as you might be facing. But in reality, most people don’t even remember middle names past their birth announcement. I don’t think your kids will be upset that they only have family middle names.
Ada-Rose for the win! It actually simplifies forms because, as Swistle mentioned, she only has ONE middle initial. (One of my sons has two middle names, and it’s been surprising how many issues this has caused!)
My middle name is hyphenated: Jean-Marie. I love it and have never had any problems or difficulties. When forms ask for a single middle initial, I use “J” but when I sign my name, my signature is: “{first name} J.M. {last night}”. I love having the double middle and like how the hyphen looks.
Ada-Rose is a beautiful middle name, and I like the look of the hyphenation, too, as opposed to “Ada Rose”.
My daughter is Genevieve Ada-Mae. I didn’t think of it much till I was filling out the hospital paperwork for her. The reason I ultimately chose to use Ada-Mae with the hyphen was so that Mae wouldn’t be dropped off, as I’ve heard some forms only allow one middle name and the second gets dropped. And I didn’t want it to be combined like ‘AdaMae’. I’ve had no issues so far, but she is only 3yo.
I sort of have experience with a hyphenated middle name: when I got married, I took my husband’s last name and moved my maiden name to be my second middle name. On my social security card there’s no hyphen, but our state can’t do non-hyphenated double names for drivers licenses, so it’s hyphenated on my drivers license…and therefore also hyphenated on basically all forms – bank stuff, healthcare stuff, etc. I do think the hyphen makes it very clear that it’s part of my middle name and not part of my last name, but I don’t really like hyphens in general so I’m not sure whether I would make the same choice knowing what I know now. That is totally a PERSONAL PREFERENCE and there is NO ONE RIGHT WAY to feel about hyphens. I just wanted to say it’s not a big deal to have a hyphenated middle name. (For some things you do need to choose one middle initial, and I agree with Swistle about it being easier to choose when it’s a hyphenated name.)
I don’t think you’re watering down the honor by including another name you like. I think it’s sweet to pair something so beautiful with a name honoring someone you love.
I won’t comment on the hyphenation, as there are others on here with more personal experience with hyphenated names. (Okay, maybe I will just add in that out of your options I would personally prefer the hyphen)
But I did want to suggest Ada-Belle as a possible middle name option, if you are keen on sticking to honour names; you could honour both grandmothers this way and it has a similar lilt as Ada-Rose
Swistle’s comment about the double-barreled name diluting the honour struck me. (And I’m not an honour name kind of person.) If you’re going to go hyphenated, what about using the two non-honour names you love as a double-barreled first name? Eulalie-Rose Ada.
I would have expected I’d vote no to a hyphenated middle name for the 5th child, thinking “better to keep the pattern,” but I absolutely love the sound and look of “Eulalie Ada-Rose.” It’s so sensational I give it a full double thumbs up.
My personal preference would be to just use Eulalie Ada as it’s lovely, it’s more simple and it honors your grandmother more closely.
However, if you go with Ada and Rose, I’d def either hyphenate or “smoosh” (AdaRose). My second daughter has two family middles (Emma and Marie) and we smooshed in order to get one middle initial and to avoid any possible hyphen issues mentioned by previous posters. So, her middle is Emmamarie. Def a mouthful but I am pleased we were able to use both honor names as I didn’t know if we’d have another girl down the line (we did, but was able to use another honor name which ended up being a smoosh name as well: Annelise to honor a friend whose double first name was Anne Elizabeth).
My husband wishes we’d smooshed Emmamarie even further to get Emmarie but I really wanted to more fully honor my two family members…and it’s not that different from more common smooshes like Annabeth, Annemarie, Annelise, etc.
Best wishes!
No real thoughts but some anecdotal evidence that might send you in either direction… My sister has a smoosh middle (think Maryjade). My mother was worried we would be jealous if she had two middles and we only had one. We wouldn’t have cared less. My sister has had various problems with people miss-reading the names/putting in an extra capital or a hyphen. As an adult she writes her names as two middle names except on offical forms. She also monograms with 4 initials.
My last child I wanted to use two family names but the initials would have been problematic so I put in a middle name that we just ‘liked’ to break them up. I like the name but wish I had used the family middle first as people drop the second middle all the time. Most forms only have room for one initial. So (example name) John Paul Benedict Smith would have been better as John Benedict Paul Smith in order to keep great-uncle Benedict’s name in use.
I think hyphens change the flow of the name and push the hyphenated names together. Ada-Rose to me is said quite differently to Ada Rose. So I think if you like A-R then you should go with that. I don’t see why Nanna Ada should be offended and it is quite common to add a diminutive to an honour name (even Megan Markle did that or it would be Archie Harry not Archie Harrison!).
All this is out if your surname starts with L, S, making the initials EARL/EARS/ in which case hyphenate :)
Frankly, I don’t understand the comments about upsetting Aunt Ada … I mean really. She is having a baby named after her. If the fact that she is associated with a rose is offensive, there are bigger problems than a baby’s name.
As for the hyphen, with a middle, I think you will miss most of the headache…. There is one initial. 98% of the time you don’t use the middle and when you do, you often control how it is pronounced. Aka graduation/marriage etc.
Lastly, if you can’t name kid number 5 the way you want when can you?!?
Ada-Rose is beautiful…. Use it.
I grew up with a hyphenated first name; my mother’s name plus a capitalized one syllable name. Along the lines of Mary-Jo. I do NOT recommend this, it causes headaches and form filling out frustration and credit card grief.
A middle name is different, it is usually just an initial on official forms. And Ada-Rose is so pretty, I vote yes, use it! You don’t want to leave it off, and then each time you say her full name wish that you had included it.
Love Ada-Rose. I love even more the suggestion of Ada-Belle, especially with Eulalie.
OP here.
Thank you so much to all of you for your thoughtful and honest feedback. Regarding my grandma Ada, she, very sadly, is no longer with us. She was an absolute angel and would have never taken offense to sharing the middle spot with another name. So that’s not a worry!
I do agree that we are breaking the pattern slightly, but I think that bothers me less than missing out on using the full middle name that we love. Also, this only occurred to me after reading your comments, but my maiden initials were A.R., which makes it even more perfect. Overall, I’m really happy to hear that having a hyphenated middle name will not cause much trouble down the road. Thank you for reassuring me!
-Anna
So now little Eulalie gets to remember great-Grandma and Mom with her name, perfect! I didn’t chime in before but Eulalie Ada-Rose is such a charming name. Glad you feel more comfortable using it.
From a British perspective – LOL! :-D
The UK top 1000 Girl’s names includes: Lily-Rose, Ellie-May, Lily-May, Lacey-May, Summer-Rose, Demi-Leigh, Amelia-Rose, Ella-Louise, Gracie-May, Ava-Mae, Ava-Grace, Ruby-Leigh, Millie-Rose, Olivia-Mae, Lexi-Mae etc etc. Around 40 names (with variant spellings included).
UK top 1000 Boy’s names includes: Tyler-James, Tommy-Lee, Alfie-James, Jayden-Lee, Riley-James, Tyler-Jay, Riley-Jay and even John-James.
Hyphenated names are, to us, totally normal, as they are to the French, the Spanish and many more. Normal, ordinary, completely reasonable and usual; an everyday part of everyday life. And bear in mind these are first names – a hyphenated middle name is so expected it’s not even a thing! If you see what I mean.
So I say – don’t worry, you just have transatlantic tastes! Go with it, and the administrative systems of the US are bound to catch up eventually.
Nice to see another Brit in the comments, haha! Are you baffled every time the Americans talk about how cute Graham is, too?
If you do Ada Rose only the A will be on the SS card. My son’s middle names are Armael Eadbhard and only the A is on his social. You might as well hyphenate, then it becomes a compound word, so only showing the A for Ada-Rose would be correct. As a few others have stated, since most forms only ask for the middle initial, the hyphen shouldn’t cause issues. Additionally, I have never seen a form that allowed more than one middle initial, which favors hyphenation.
It is possible things have changed since my kids were born—but they and I all have two non-hyphenated middle names, and in all cases both middle names are on our Social Security cards. And my driver’s license allows for two middle names/initials, and so does my passport, so those are two additional forms at least that allow(ed) it.
In my opinion, both versions break your naming pattern. Even though the hyphen makes it technically/legally one name, phonetically it still registers as two names for me. With that said, all things would be considered equal for me, I would go with Ada Rose. For some reason, I find it sweeter and more pleasing to look at.
I’m almost tempted to suggest you to just drop the “Rose.” You have such a strong naming pattern – “E” starting first names and honorary middle name (singular) that by the 5th kid, I would just go with it. Eulalie Ada is just absolute darling and simple and sweet and fresh. Good luck!
My vote goes to Eulalie Ada-Rose.
I have distant relatives who have used the similar name Eulalia with the nickname Lila for several generations.
I vote for Eulalie Rose. Four syllables like all the other kids and it sounds beautiful. I realise it’s not an honour name and the rest all have honour names but I bet you’ve got a Rose in your family somewhere!
Edith Annabel is gorgeous. Congratulations!
Edith is SUCH a great name. Swooning over here.