Hi,
My girlfriend and I are expecting our second child this coming August and we’ve run into an issue name wise. We have one son together, Hunter Elliot with my last name, which is an alternate spelling of Richards, and she has a daughter Adriana Erin (goes by Adri) who has her last name which sounds like Antonetti.
We haven’t much discussed baby names yet because she is dead set on naming the baby Alice Valentina, Alice being a name which I happen to hate and think sounds extremely antiquated. It’s a family name of hers which I also find to be a little bit of an issue. Our son is named for a friend of ours (mostly mine) who passed away shortly before he was born, and my girlfriend’s oldest brother who had also passed away fairly recently. Alice and Valentina are two family members of hers who have passed away as well and I don’t have a problem with naming after dead relatives but I don’t want all of our children to be named after dead people, I find it a tad morbid. There is also the fact that when I wanted to name our son a family name of mine she shot it down instantly. I’m from Wales (now living in America) and it was a very distinctly Welsh-sounding name that she rejected because she thought it was too strange sounding, and didn’t like it. I don’t want to be immature and make it seem like I’m saying, ‘Well you did this to me so you can’t get your way either’ but I do feel similar about Alice, it’s very strange sounding with the names of our other kids.
I’m not sure if I should just relent or go with Alice, or try to suggest something else to her. I don’t want to upset or offend her, but I’m not exactly too sure how to bring up the issue. In preparation for that conversation, though, I was hoping you could help me find some names similar in sound or meaning to Alice that I could suggest to somewhat honor her relatives. My girlfriend is of Italian background so her family pronounce Alice as Ali-che and she was considering using Ali as a nickname. It would be nice to find a name that could possibly still have the Ali aspect, but would also sound good with Hunter and Adriana as well as our names, Trent and Jo. (I am also of Chinese background and she of Brazilian, so Eastern Asian and Latino/Portuguese names are not out of the question).
Thanks so much,
Trent
If you hate the name Alice, and if you have tried very hard to come around to the name because it is important to your girlfriend but you still hate the name, then you are right that it is time to have the “I’m sorry, but I can’t come around to this name and we need to take it out of consideration and look together for something else” conversation.
If she has been aware all along that you are not on-board with the name, this will be one level of conversation; if you have been letting her think that you agree to the name, things will be more fraught. Either way, I suggest bringing it up by asking pleasantly to discuss baby names, in whatever way makes sense for you as a couple. For example, Paul did not want to talk about names while the other kids were still up, and he liked to have some warning so he could get in the right mindset (I liked talking about baby names a LOT more than he did), so I would say, “Hey, can we talk about baby names for awhile after the kids go to bed tonight?” Or sometimes I would suggest that we go out to dinner and discuss it there; it makes for a calmer conversation, plus it’s fun to have a meal out if it’s doable.
There are two topics to discuss. Well, three. The first topic is the main one: that you have considered the name Alice, but it’s not working for you. The second topic is what other names would the two of you like to consider? And the third topic is the one that needs to be the backbone behind your discussion even if it is not voiced: that the job of choosing a name for a baby is up to both parents, not just one, and that the strength of her desire to use the name doesn’t mean she gets to use it despite your objections.
I see your issue with not wanting to make it seem like retaliation for her rejection of a name you liked. My hope is that because the process of choosing names often involves lots of name-rejections by both parents, that won’t seem to her to be a natural leap—and that if she DOES make that leap, that your assurance to the contrary will be sufficient. I recommend emphasizing that you know she loves the name and it’s important to her, and that you tried to come around to it because she loves it so much.
In fact, if she rejected a name you liked without seeming to give it that same consideration, it might be helpful to keep this concept in the forefront of everyone’s minds. Paul had a problem with insta-rejecting names, so what I did with him is say something like: “I have a name for you to consider. I really like the name, so I want you to give it a chance and not reject it right away. I’m just going to SAY the name and then we won’t discuss it for awhile.” Or sometimes I would give him a list of a dozen or so names I liked, and tell him to think about those for awhile and then we’d discuss it next week. This greatly reduced the number of times he said no to a name too quickly (and in one memorable case, caused him to choose as his Top Favorite a name he had previously vehemently rejected).
I am not sure you need to go into the discussion about the name Alice armed with Ali alternatives; I think it might be enough to go into it armed with the IDEA of looking together for Ali alternatives, so that you can find out what your shared priorities are before you do a lot of searching. In addition, I suggest bringing the idea of looking together for more names of her relatives. That may be a good area for compromise: honor names from her side, but names you DO like. Especially if the other children have honor names, and if this child will have your surname; if this child will have the mother’s surname, then I would be inclined to look for honor names from your side of the family. If possible, I recommend seeing if you can think of the names as “family honor names” rather than “names of dead people.” Or perhaps you can look for names that honor family members who are still living.
Remember that after you have this discussion, it is not your job or her job to come up with a name she likes as much as Alice; the only job is to come up with a name the two of you can agree on from the non-Alice names that remain.
Leave Valentina on the table for now if you don’t hate it. For one thing, I think it’s really nice with Adriana: how would you feel about switching the names? Sometimes a name that feels all wrong in the first-name position can seem very nice as a middle name. (I suggest the same for the Welsh name you liked, if there is another chance to use it.) Valentina Alice. Adriana, Hunter, and Valentina. She could still be called Ali (though Adri and Ali seem very similar to me), or Leni.
I like sibling-name compatibility too, but I recommend drawing the line at trying to find names that sound good with the parents’ names. Parents’ names are usually a generation out of date, and everyone knows you didn’t choose them. Even people who love sibling names to coordinate don’t expect the entire family’s names to go together, and it adds an unnecessary level of difficulty.
I love the idea of Valentina Alice (Val! Leni! Tina! OOOOH Vali!)
And I otherwise ditto all that Swistle said.
I love Swistle’s solution, because I adore Valentina. I agree with you that Alice is not going to work with your sibling set, mainly because I think it’s going to be hard to get anyone else to recognize it as the Italian pronunciation.
If Valentina doesn’t work for you as the first name, here’s a Portuguese one I love: Estela (like a star). Estela Alice, with the Italian pronunciation. I love the idea no matter what of keeping the girls’ names with an -a ending.
Do you like Alicia any better? It seems in line with your girlfriend’s choices of Adriana and Valentina.
It’s also worth noting that Alice is currently a vintage revival—it might hit your ear as an Old Lady Name, but it’s in the top 75 right now and climbing. It would likely not sound antiquated at all to the people in your child’s life (peers, teachers). That’s not to say that you should use it if you don’t like it; it’s just a point of accuracy.
Maybe Allison would be good choice? It’s a diminutive of Alice.
I read through most of your letter ready to recommend Carys, a Welsh name that I would fully expect to appeal to someone who loves Alice…and then I got to the end and saw that you’re pronouncing Alice Ali-che.
How do you feel about Italian (or Latinate if you decide to go with Portuguese heritage) names? One possible area of compromise I could see is that a name that you like or is significant to you, but the Italian version of it to “fit” with Adriana and what seems to be your girlfriend’s naming style. An added advantage is that you can totally name a daughter Margherita – for example – and call her Maggie, even if your girlfriend prefers to call her Margherita.
If you went that way, I’d be tempted to pair it with a clearly Welsh or Chinese middle. Alis could maybe work, Liling has some similar sounds to Ali, or you might be able to find a Chinese name with a meaning similar to Alice, which is noble, or that reminds your girlfriend of her family member.
I also thought of switching the order of Alice & Valentina. Valentina is a great fit with Adriana & something like Adri & Leni would be really cute.
If you haven’t already, you may want to look at baby naming stats for Alice. Here in the U.S. it is part of the vintage revival group of names & has been steadily increasing over the past several years. In 2017, it was ranked #70. It may seem “old” to you, but it will fit right in with the names being used for your daughter’s age cohort. Maybe a review of the name stats will help you to move past the idea of it being an old name. Of course, this may not help and you may find you still just don’t like the name, and that’s OK.
I would encourage you to worry less about the sibling names going together. Lots of people have different styles for boys vs. girls, name preferences change over time, honor names can be used, names from different cultures, etc. There are lots of reasons for sibling names to not perfectly coordinate & that’s OK. I think it’s more important to use names both parents like-and sometimes loosening the restriction on coordination can open you up to a lot of new names.
I’ll also point out that you didn’t seem to be as concerned with name coordination when you suggested a Welsh name for the last child. Your girlfriend’s objections to the name makes it sound like the name in question was not something that would be familiar/easy for people in the U.S. to work with (say Carys or Gwen). Hunter is a more modern surname/tradesman kind of name with English origins and it gets a fair amount of use in the U.S. Combining it with something Very Welsh doesn’t exactly scream coordinated sibling group. So I suspect that name coordination is not really that important to you. Or at least, it’s not something you are concerned with when discussing a name you like.
But… they hadn’t named Hunter yet so then Welsh name would only have to go with the daughters name?? Second baby names often cement the family style one way or the other.
There are, after all, some names that one partner would adore and the other simply cannot use, no matter how hard s/he tries to come to grips with them. I had to let one of my favorite boy’s names go because of my spouse’s very bad experience with someone of that name, no matter how much he loves my grandparent of the same name. (And he does, because she’s awesome).
For me, a lot of currently popular names are a bit dated, because they were the names of my elder grandmother’s cohort and they were -old-, lol, so I hear you on that. If you were iffy on it, I’d recommend ignoring that part (as someone with a toddler named Susan).
How about Alis (the Welsh form of Alice)?
Who would -you- like to name a child after? (That’s how we got a Susan).
There’s also Alys as a spelling of Alice (I think welsh but may be wrong). Depends how you feel about unusual spellings (at least it’s short!)
What about Alissa/Alessa?
Or maybe:
Angelica
Eliza
Veronica
Valerie/Valeria
Camilla
Beatrice
Catalina
Alina
Livia
Emilia
Miranda
I love Valentina with the sibling names!
When we were choosing names, I would get annoyed when my husband vetoed but didn’t have any other suggestions. So it is really helpful to be ready to jump in with ideas when she’s ready to start discussing names other than Alice.
Carys
Carolina
Lucia
Vivian
Bella
Paloma
Julia
Beatrice
Oooooh Paloma. Love it.
I had never heard the Italian way of pronouncing Alice before! Is it common where you live? Regardless, I think if you hate the name it is off the list. What about:
Alessandra
Ariella
Alisha
Valentina as a first name
What about Alessia? ah-less-ee-ah
Here to suggest Alessia! I love it in the sibset and I think could be a honour name for an Alice at a stretch. If you want an Ali, I think it totally works, although I agree with Swistle that it’s too close to Adri. Alessia also means “defending warrior” which I LOVE. And it’s my niece’s name so I might be a little biased!
You should not feel coerced to accepting a single name option to keep the peace. Let your partner know as soon as possible you do not like Alice as a first name.
To get to Ali, I would consider Alexa, Alexandra, or Allison. However, using Alice as a middle name is probably a better option.