Dear Swistle,
I read your blog religiously and with the recents posts involving mother’s last name issues and feelings of resentment/pressure surrounding names, I decided it was time to write you myself. My situation is a two part question. I will try to be brief but I have a feeling it’s going to be long so feel free to cut it down if necessary!
I am currently pregnant (due in April) with our second child, a girl. We have a two year old son named James Reave (spelled differently). He goes by James exclusively and is named for my dad. His middle name is my husband’s beloved grandmother’s maiden name. I love his name and am happy to have honored the people we did. The resentment sets in when I start to think about his last name. I did not change my last name upon marrying and as I am the last member of my family to carry the name, I have particularly strong feelings about it. I always secretly imagined my husband taking my name and my children carrying it on, and though I did mention this desire occasionally, it was never seriously discussed as I think my husband and I both realized we weren’t willing to deal with the fall-out that would inevitably occur if we broached the subject with our families. Looking back, I wish I had cared less about what others thought and had had the courage to push for a real discussion on the matter. We contemplated giving our son my last name as a second middle name, but were hesitant to saddle him with such a long and clunky name. When it came time to fill out the birth certificate paperwork, I was too distracted to care much one way or the other and it wasn’t included. We almost gave him my last name as his only middle name but because we were naming him after my dad, it seemed strange for him to have my dad’s exact name with my husband’s last just tacked on the end. Hyphenating would have been the ideal compromise but both of our names are long and cumbersome and it would have made for a 20 letter last name. My last name also sadly doesn’t make for a desirable first name. I thought that I would just move on from this but as I begin to register him for activities and preschool, I am constantly reminded that we don’t share a name and it makes me sad. I am tempted to take my husband’s name but I feel like I’m giving up some of my identity and there is also the unfortunate issue of my name sounding terrible with his. My question is, should we at this point legally change our son’s name to include my maiden name as his second middle name? Do you know how much of a hassle that is at this point? Is there another solution I haven’t considered? I had thought that perhaps if we had another son we would just give him my last name as his middle but we are having a girl instead and it’s just not the name I envision for my daughter. Which brings me to my next quandary.
Ironically, in light of the conundrum surrounding my last name, my mother’s family has a matriarchal tradition of naming each first girl after her mother, Sarah. Although I go by my middle name, my first name is Sarah. My mother, grandmother, and great grandmother were all Sarah and the line of Sarahs continues further back still with a couple of all male generations mixed in. For as long as I can remember, my future daughter has always been referred to as Sarah by everyone in my family, as if there were no other option. It’s only now that we’re expecting a girl (who will almost certainly be our last child) that I have come to realize that we actually do have a choice in the matter. I’m torn because I love the idea of continuing this tradition that makes me feel connected to my mother’s family but on the other hand, I feel like I’m giving up the opportunity to pick my only daughter’s name. Sarah is a fine name but feels slightly plain and overused to me and as it is my mom’s name, it seems a bit strange for both of my children to be called the same names as my parents. I realize we could move Sarah to the middle name position, but that seems to water down the tradition somewhat. We have considered naming her Sarah and calling her Sadie, but we’re just not sure Sadie feels quite right. Where we seem to have landed for the moment is to name her Sarah but call her by a middle name of our choosing. My hesitation with this of course is the hassle that comes with being named one thing and called another. I have been frustrated by this my entire life and to now be contemplating doing it to my daughter feels a little wrong. On the other hand, I survived it and can now appreciate the significance and meaning behind my name. The name my husband and I keep coming back to is Sarah Emmeline. Emmeline, though not a family name, feels special. I like the connection it has to multiple suffragettes and women’s rights activists as well as it being the name of the title character in a book about female independence that I enjoyed reading. Additionally, it was the name of my first cabbage patch doll, and as a result, it’s a name I have always had a soft spot for. While I do love the name, something is keeping me from completely committing. It is definitely my husband’s first choice and he has told our son the name, who has now taken to calling her Baby Emme in the sweetest little voice that melts my heart. But is Emme too cutesy? Will Emmeline constantly be mispronounced? (I prefer the Emma-line, rhyming with pine pronunciation). Does it work with James or is it too uncommon alongside a top 10 boys name? Does it sound like a trendy, made-up name as one of my friends suggested? Other names we like but that don’t feel quite right are:
Clara
Celia
Charlotte
Kate
Eliza/Elizabeth
Linnea (I love, husband hates)
Adeline
Isabella (family name but too popular)
Cora
Maggie (we don’t like any of the longer name options)
Georgia (if we had a boy, George would almost certainly have been the name so I want to hang onto it in case a boy were to come along)I’d love to hear your thoughts on the best option for us. Please feel free to suggest new names or ones from our list that we should reconsider. I’m sorry for the incredibly long post but I would be so appreciative of any guidance you may be able to offer on these naming dilemmas! And I’ll be sure to send an update!
Thank you!!
L.
As time passes, I feel increasingly incredulous at the way I considered Paul so progressive just because he was WILLING TO DISCUSS other options than going with his surname. And at how both of us concluded that there was nothing else that was worth the hassle and confusion—as if “having someone periodically make an incorrect assumption about our surname” would have been so terrible, and “me having to give up my family name and use his family name for ALL OF MY CHILDREN” was so much lighter a load.
And I can’t believe I felt as if I were really getting my way to have my surname put in as the children’s second middle name. Not even their first middle name, but the SECOND one. The one that gets left off of many forms that don’t have room for two. I’m still glad we did that rather than doing nothing, but it feels like being grateful for crumbs.
My hope is that the way you and I are feeling, which is the way I have noticed a lot of other adult women feeling, is a feeling that will move like electricity down to the next generation of women: that THEY will think, “Why would I give up my OWN name and take HIS name?? That’s insane!” and then also NOT give all the children his name so that she ends up the only one not in the family surname club. My hope is that if we as a society can’t come up with a fair solution that makes sense for every family, then we as a society are going to make room for a lot of different ways to do surnames, and that most of those ways will equally represent both parents (and/or average out to equal representation), and that we as a society will stop acting as if that’s weird. We’ve had comments on surname posts that make me wonder if there’s something in the water—like, women commenting that they don’t think using the father’s surname for the children should in any way mean the mother should get any more say in the rest of the name, because that’s just normal and doesn’t count. AS IF THAT IS NOT, AT ITS CORE, THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION OF THE ENTIRE PROCESS. Which family do these children belong to? Which family matters? Who is head of the family, as symbolically shown by his spouse and children taking his name? What name goes over the door, on the mailbox, in the phone book, in the newspapers? What name goes onward down the family tree, and which one is abandoned? THIS STUFF MATTERS ENORMOUSLY.
In moments of regret and societal despair, I have fantasized about dropping my husband’s surname from my own name and from my children’s names. I grew those children in my body, I have done the vast majority of their care over the years: if they must be marked with one family name or the other, they should be marked with MINE. It is interesting to me that when I do consider this, what I worry about is the apparent symbolic attack on Paul: if I drop his surname, if I give his surname to the children only as a second middle name, how can that represent anything but the most enormous slap in the face? (This is when I pause, wondering if anyone else is thinking as I then do about what an enormous slap it is to the mother and the mother’s family, when her name is preemptively stripped from her and from all her future descendants.)
About your son’s name. I feel almost weary as I root for the option to change his name to include your surname as a second middle: it feels like so much trouble, and for crumbs, and I don’t know how much hassle is involved but I expect a fair amount, and I hesitate to push anyone to deal with city hall about anything, when I myself would almost rather perish. But—when my eldest graduated high school, and they read his full name and one of those names was my birth surname, it is hard to explain how glad I was. I did not even slightly wish we had given him a shorter or less complicated or nicer-sounding name; if anything, I only wished we had hyphenated, so that we could have heard my name every day instead of once in 18 years. It gave me this feeling like…like names are IMPORTANT, not decorative. Like they are HISTORY and they MEAN something! Yes, there are names that would have been PRETTIER, but my family name doesn’t need to be pretty in order to be important.
There was a girl in Rob’s graduating class who had an almost startlingly complicated/clunky hyphenated surname. I am trying to think of an example that would communicate the feeling/sound of the name without giving away anything about the name, and I am failing. BOTH surnames are impossible to spell and pronounce. One of them is four syllables, the other is three. They don’t sound good together. And yet, weeping my way through the graduation ceremony, I thought, “Why didn’t WE do that??” Her name doesn’t have to “sound nice.” Her name communicates her ancestry, and IT INCLUDES HER MOTHER. Why is “sounding nice” more important than “INCLUDING HER MOTHER”?
How often, I wonder, do women drop the idea to use their own surname for the children because the name doesn’t sound nice? Compare that to how often we decide not to use the father’s surname just because it doesn’t sound nice. I went to school with a kid whose surname was Butt, and another whose surname was Dick. If those had been the mother’s surname, would there be a chance in hell of the children having those names anywhere within their names? But because it was the FATHER’S surname, it was worth the constant embarrassment. This is one of the many ways we reveal our beliefs about the relative value and importance of the parents’ surnames.
Every family that starts with anything except One Woman + One Man has to figure out the surname thing without falling back on the tradition of male names dominating, AND THEY ARE ALL MANAGING TO FIND SOLUTIONS that don’t involve one of them getting credit for agreeing it sucks that the only sensible solution is to go with tradition. One Man + One Woman families have some significant catching up to do in this area.
I am about to suggest an idea that I didn’t have the courage to do myself. I’m essentially saying to you, “I played it safe and went the nice comfy easy route that everyone understands, but you, YOU, should do the uncomfortable thing.” So I’d like to start by saying that you can trust me to 100% understand if you DON’T do it and instead do exactly as I did. I truly, deeply get it. But if we forget for a moment what the norms are, and we just look at the situation we have in your one single family, here is what we have:
1. Your husband, with his own birth surname
2. You, with your own birth surname
3. Your son, with your husband’s birth surname
4. Your daughter, with ______
Society is a mess, but your one single family can be balanced, surname-wise. If you like, you could change your son’s name to include your surname as a second middle name, and give your daughter her father’s surname in that same position. You and your husband could change your own names, taking the other one’s surname as a second middle name. (Perhaps wait and do this later, when the kids are older and it isn’t such a major ordeal to even get to the store for eggs, let alone get to city hall to do paperwork. You can make a date of it, maybe for a significant anniversary, while the kids are in school: first city hall, then lunch, then maybe a museum.)
I don’t know how to vote on the Sarah tradition. I have mixed feelings about naming traditions: on one hand, I find them touching and cool; on the other hand, they can cause such unnecessary pressure—and why does one person gets to name all the future generations? I strongly believe everyone should get to name their own babies. And especially when things get to the point that no one is actually using the revered name in daily life but instead just putting it on paperwork, it starts to seem like maybe no one really wants to do this tradition and it should stop. And I agree it seems odd to have your two kids named after your parents. I’m going to put this in list form:
1. The name Sarah would only be on the paperwork.
2. This was your own naming situation, and it has frustrated you your entire life.
3. It feels a little wrong to you to do this to your daughter.
4. The name Sarah feels plain and overused to you.
5. You lose the opportunity to choose your only daughter’s name.
6. You don’t like the idea of your two children having the same names as your parents.
Weigh this against the downside of using Sarah as a middle name: it “seems to water down the tradition somewhat.” It absolutely DOES dilute the honor, but perhaps it is high time for that dilution to happen, and well worth it.
But I can also see how, for various reasons, you might decide to continue the tradition. In which case, I am strongly in favor of Sarah Emmeline, called Emmeline. Emme is not too cutesy; if it becomes too cutesy, you will stop using it and use something else (Emmeline, Emma, Em, Ems). Emmeline will occasionally be mispronounced/misspelled, but within normal range. It works beautifully with James and doesn’t seem too uncommon next to it. It is not a trendy or made-up name; your friend was mean to say that, as well as wrong.
I feel like you are under a lot of pressure here. There is the intense societal pressure to use your husband’s surname for the kids. There is intense family pressure to use the name Sarah for your daughter. And now you have pressure from Swistle, trying to make you give your daughter your own surname AND dilute the family naming tradition. All of this while you’re pregnant.
Well. I will say this: my own vote is for Emmeline Sarah YourSurname (or, if you change your son’s name to James Reave YourSurname HisSurname, then Emmeline Sarah HisSurname YourSurname). But if you go with Sarah Emmeline YourSurname, or Sarah Emmeline HisSurname, I will understand. There is no one single option that is obvious and solves all the issues and makes everyone happy, and all of us have to weigh the pros and cons and then choose the solution we think will give us the least grief in the long run. I believe I may have chosen wrong, but that doesn’t mean it would be the same for you.
Name update:
Dear Swistle,
I’m sorry for the delayed update but wanted to let you know our final decisions after the birth of our daughter! I can’t thank you and your readers enough for your kind words of encouragement and affirmations that my feelings and desires were valid. While I absolutely loved the idea of passing my surname on to my daughter (and am excited to see a recent poster going this route), I couldn’t stop myself from thinking, “But what about James?!” I realized it was all or nothing for me and decided it was more important to me for us all to be a cohesive family unit that shared a name. Being an only child with divorced parents probably contributes to this extra strong desire for unity :) We decided it made the most sense to make my surname the second middle name for all of us. Not incredibly original I know, and I agree with you Swistle, it feels like crumbs. While this was not my ideal solution, I feel satisfied enough with this arrangement and will look forward to hearing my surname read aloud at my children’s graduation ceremonies. Unfortunately, it seems I’m not doing much to further our cause, but I do hope that others will have the courage to challenge tradition and that societal norms will have changed enough for our daughters to have an easier time making these tough decisions.
As for the first name/middle name debate, your comments and the comments of your readers truly helped free me from any sense of obligation I was feeling about using Sarah and I decided to see what felt right when we met her. When I saw her, I knew I wanted her to be a part of the (now seemingly unending) line of Sarahs. I know I’m just kicking the can down the road, but in that moment it felt like an honor and not a burden to be able to pass along the tradition and to share something special with her. I’ll do my best to make it clear to her that this tradition does not need to continue! So Sarah Emmeline (called Emmeline or Baby Emme) it is. Thank you again!!
L.
This definitely makes for a situation that requires initial explanation at schools, etc., but I grew up with a family where the (only) girl had the mother’s surname and the (two) boys had their father’s. It worked and seemed normal! I think that was their parents’ compromise. It’s not too late for you to try this! In fact, it’s the perfect time. The children’s middle names were each the other parent’s surname.
I think you should legally add your surname to your son’s name as a middle name. You clearly feel strongly about it. How difficult it will be I think depends on the state but it seems absolutely worth it and you will be so happy when it’s done.
So, I agree with Swistle: Emmeline Sarah HisSurname YourSurname. (I agree that it’s time for Sarah to move on to the middle slot.)
I also think Emmeline sounds like The Name. Your misgivings are normal, it’s hard to feel confident you’re making the right choice when you’re pretty sure it’s the final chance you have to name a girl. We had a somewhat similar thing happen with the name we picked, Alice. We named her after several really admirable women named Alice (Coltrane, Neel, Waters, Munro…) and my husband loved the name, but I felt uncertain a few times. After we started calling her Alice when I was around five months pregnant, that feeling went away fast. It helped, though, that we are considering having at least one more child.
Good luck! Excited to hear your update!
Seconding all of this.
Also, YES Swistle! Excellent response.
Yes! Coming here to say the same thing. I know a girl who shares her mother’s surname, and her brother shares the father’s.
Sarah Emmeline nicknamed Emme sounds fine to me, not especially cutesy, if it’s pronounced like the award. After all, that award is pretty serious.
My husband’s name rhymes with Ducking, something he has always hated, for all that it has a decent meaning in Irish. It’s his father’s mother’s surname (since FIL was a smidge pre-marriage) but his father’s father’s surname is just as bad, and MIL was delighted to drop her surname as soon as she could do it without reprocussions. (very long story) DH doesn’t want to be the one to take up the “I took my wife’s name” discussion with his parents, so he still has his and just hopes people accidently call him Mr. MyName. As a result, our kids are MyName-HisName and have been told they can drop either if they want when they’re older.
My aunt kept her surname when she and my uncle got married. They had two children, a girl and a boy. The girl has her surname and the boy has my uncle’s surname. I don’t know whether they planned that the first child would have hers and the second would have his or if the sexes of the children had an impact on it, but what I do know is that it has never really been a problem or issue for any of them. The kids didn’t have to do much explaining of it growing up, and as an adult of course it makes no difference whether you have the same surname as a sibling. They even did this despite the fact that my aunt’s surname is something that would be considered undesirable, along the lines of Dick or Butt, though not quite as bad. All that to say, I’m in complete agreement with Swistle that the baby should have Mom’s last name.
I also agree that Sarah can go to the middle name spot without much conflict or regret. And Emmeline is beautiful, has wonderful meaning behind it for you, and will be a great name. As far as pronunciation, I think it will be okay too. There are tons of people named Madeline and some pronounce it like the girl in the old house in Paris and some pronounce it like Lynn. Emmeline seems similar to me in that regard and I don’t think it’s a deal breaker.
That said, you have some great other choices too! You can’t go wrong. Congratulations and good luck!
I just want to state that I love Swistle’s response to this letter. It is so on the mark and renews my anger that I didn’t get the name I wanted with my youngest. I wanted to make his first name my maiden name, Miller, but my husband flat out refused. He is now 17 and I am STILL BITTER – If not MORE BITTER. I will say if you are going to change your son’s name, do it now. Once he’s older he will need to have a say it and may not want to do it.
Swistle. Your response on “The last name issue” brought tears to my eyes. For a variety of good and personal reasons, I moved my own last name to a second middle name spot and took my husband’s last name. I don’t regret taking his, but I regret thinking it would be such a hassle to just hyphenate or have two last names. I miss having my last name in the last name spot.
One thing for the writer to consider: you seem burdened by the obligation of naming your daughter Sarah. Perhaps it would be a gift to your daughter to relieve her of that obligation by breaking the tradition now. Emmeline is lovely, though—in the first or middle spot.
“Perhaps it would be a gift to your daughter to relieve her of that obligation by breaking the tradition now.”
Oh. That’s a lovely thought.
Agree with Linda. Beautifully put, Jean!
We (lesbian couple) gave our kids a hyphenated last name. It’s on the long side (five syllables, fourteen letters) but it sounds pretty good and hasn’t really caused any inconveniences for them. It just kicks the problem down the road, though, assuming they have kids someday. Somewhere along the way surnames have to get dropped or everyone will have a long string of them.
I do think for straight couples giving boys the dad’s surname and girls the mom’s is an elegant solution, with or without using the other parent’s name as a middle. It wouldn’t be equal in every family, but it would be roughly equal in society.
As for the first/middle name, I agree Emmeline Sarah might solve the awkwardness of using the middle name, while keeping the connection to your family. It does sound like Emmeline is the name you most want to use as her given name.
Actually, over many generations, it has been calculated that using gender to determine who gets which parent’s last name will eventually lead to some surnames becoming more common for one gender over the other (which I believe is not a good thing). My preference is either use a random method or say that the first child will get one parent’s last name regardless of gender and alternate afterwards.
I agree with the other commenters – this is a great post, Swistle. You’ve put into writing things I’ve been thinking about ever since I got married. Honestly, I didn’t think about feminism that much until I had to decide what to do with my last name when I got married. My husband never had that dilemma. And then the same thing happened when we had our first child. To the letter writer, it’s incredibly frustrating and emotional and I share in your frustration. Swistle, now you’ve got me wondering what last name we should use if we have another child!..
I love Swistle’s suggestion to give this daughter her mother’s surname! I especially like how, as some of the previous comments have shown, this would mean that not only these two children, but also all the other kids around them, will grow up with more flexible ideas about surnames. Thinking about it makes me a little teary (though I certainly empathize if you don’t feel willing to lead in this way).
I was SO GLAD to get rid of my maiden name. It’s ugly and clunky and I grew up with an abusive father. I expect your feelings are different if you grow up in a healthy household. I don’t feel any ties to that name and would never consider it for my kids.
That said, I love my current name and with 3 daughters, I tell them all the time: “DO NOT change your name unless you find a better one!” This usually leads to a fun discussion on last names and which one would trump ours. (There aren’t many.)
I have long maintained that when people marry, they should either combine names to create a new one or choose the BEST name. If you’re unsure, *I* will choose for you. This way we can add new names and weed out the Pimpletons, Rapers, and Weiners.
One of my more patriarchal coworkers and I were talking about this and I explained my theory and then he earnestly told me that it would have crushed him if his wife didn’t take his name because his name being passed on was SO IMPORTANT to him and I was like, “YOUR LAST NAME IS SMITH.”
Sorry, none of this was really helpful to the writer. I like the name Sarah Emmeline, FWIW. And I always remember Swistle saying that at some point, the name being passed down thing needs to change and why can’t it change with you? There’s no shame in that.
I love the name Emmeline so, so much. A friend named her child Emmeline and it was cute on her as a child, and surprisingly grew up with her very well. It didn’t sound too cute as she got older.
Regarding the Emma-Lynn vs Emma-Line… I think this is something that you may have to correct once or twice, but I think most people will grab onto the correct pronunciation quickly.
I love Sarah Emmeline if you chose to go that route.
My kids’ names are hyphenated since both my husband and I strongly wanted them to have our names. I have never regretted it. I really like that we have a family name: I am MyFirstName MyLastName, he is HisFirstName HisLastName, and collectively we are The MyLastName-HisLastNames. I am zero worried about what happens in the next generation. When they are adults, my kids will figure out names that suit them/their children/their partners as they grow new families and I will be 100% supportive (or fake it) whatever that ends up being.
For the poster, I think the solution of using your last name for your daughter is both elegant and fair. I like the idea of Emmeline Sarah HerLastName very much. Emmeline Sarah is beautiful.
It sounds like you have exactly the same approach as us! And I’m absolutely not worried about future generations – I want them to have the freedom to make the best choice for them and their families.
In my family, I am that generation. It’s a tricky problem, but I far prefer it to the one most people here seem to be facing. In my case my (genderqueer) spouse dropped most of his estranged father’s last name and just kept the one syllable that was the same between that and his mother’s maiden name. The bit of my last name I get from my father is also one syllable and we could easily smush them together and then hyphenate that with the name I get from my mother. It would make a perfectly serviceable. But leaving my mother’s name out and just hyphenating the two one syllable names makes a name that feels perfect and coherent and *us* in a way the longer one doesn’t. We’re not on the brink of kids yet but when I think of them, I think of them with that name. It feels entirely equitable between my spouse and I, but I feel bad about leaving my mother’s name out when there’s a good solution that includes everyone. I know my mother won’t make any kind of fuss no matter what we do, but I do think there would be pain for her in us leaving her name out or even dropping it to the middle. My partner has been clear he’ll help me think it through, but since they’re my names it’s ultimately up to me how I want to pass them on. I’m conflicted, but it’s a good problem to have as problems go.
I have 3 cousins who all were given both parents’ names as their hyphenated last name. They are all now adults and married. Boy cousin now goes exclusively by his mom’s last name and his wife kept her name. Girl cousin 1 still goes by the same hyphenated last name and her husband kept his last name. Girl cousin 2 took her husband’s name when she got married, so now they both have his last name. I just thought it was interesting that each of them made different choices as adults.
I know a family in which the parents kept their own surnames. The first child (a girl) has the mother’s surname, the second child (another girl) has the father’s surname, and the third child (a boy) has a hyphenated surname. They are all grown now, and it always seemed quirky and cool to me, and not weird or complicated.
I was coming here to suggest the same thing Swistle already did! My cousin has 2 girls, and one has her last name, and one has their dad’s last name. I was startled the first time I found that out, then was like DUDE THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE WHY DON’T MORE PEOPLE DO THIS IT IS SO SENSIBLE!?
I am also strongly in favor of Emmeline Sarah YourLastName. I would find absolutely nothing odd about a family who gave their children different surnames. I actually quite like the idea of the girls carrying on their mother’s name and the boys carrying on their father’s. I think our traditional naming structure is going to be the next thing to evolve – much like women voting and owning property, going to work, being the breadwinner, etc.
Honestly, this makes me appreciate the Spanish naming conventions so much. (I’m not Spanish, but my husband is by heritage.) No name changing at marriage, and everyone has one surname from each dad and mom. Sadly this doesn’t solve the OP’s dilemma nor many others, but the Spaniards had this issue figured out.
Yes! Swistle I love your response! I kept my name on marriage (which was after our daughter was born anyway) and we double-barrelled her name. Is it catchy? Not particularly (although luckily my name is really short, which helps balance out my husband’s very Germanic name. Think Gilbert-Pool, kinda). But even if it had been even longer and clunkier we still would have done it. I’m not willing to go through life feeling that I’m not equally represented in my children’s names, and neither am I willing to give up my name.
We’ve had SO much criticism on both fronts – from friends who argue that when our double-barrelled daughter marries a double-barrelled man, what will they caaaaaall themselves?! Cue hand-wringing. And also from extended family who refuse to address me as anything other than Mrs Husband-name.
But what I’m trying to say is that even though I worried a bit about cursing our kid with a hefty name before she was born, every time I hear it or read it I’m reminded we made the right choice. If I were you and it was making me sad, I’d go right ahead and change it. It’s really not that much of a hassle in the UK, if you’re US based I can’t imagine it would be that different?
Just to add: I know of two double-barrelled people that got married – a Dudley-Smith and a Peirson-Webber – and they both picked their favourite and become the Dudley-Peirson’s. Problem solved!
I’m not going to vote on this matter for you, but I will share my story of changing my toddler son’s name after there was an error in the second middle/last name arrangement.
We proofed the birth certificate paperwork, noted an error, but it wasn’t fixed. We didn’t realize how widespread the error was until after he turned one, at which point we couldn’t just “fix” the birth certificate, but had to go through a legal name change procedure. In our state, Colorado, that meant —
1- obtaining a copy of the incorrect birth certificate (~$20)
2- filing paperwork and paying approximately $200 in fees at the courthouse
3- appearing before a judge at a prescribed time to explain why we are requesting the change
4- publication of the name change in a newspaper (our judge waived this requirement for us)
5- taking the certified name change decree back to the birth certificate office to get a new bc ~$20)
6- taking the new bc and name change docs to the social security office (my new least favorite place on earth…)
…and ta da! My last name is now a second middle and no longer an accidental first last name. It was bittersweet, but this was the compromise we had worked out. In my husband’s family, there is a tradition to not give a middle name and our kids have two, one of which is my last name (I didn’t take his name when we married). It’s not perfect, but we both decided we could live with it!
I think the easiest thing would be just for you to hyphenate your last name. Then when you sign little Oliver Smith in as Jennifer Owen-Smith you will still have that visible connection that you were wanting. As for just taking his name, that is an option too. I definitely debated not taking my husband’s name but I did and 11 years later it is a non-issue and I am so glad we did. We also talk a lot about how the Parleer Family acts this way or that way and how the Parleer Family Does NOT tell lies etc etc and I like that we are on one united front, last name wise. (Also it is slightly scary to post when all the above opinions are all on the same side of the fence – so I just want to say that I honestly don’t care what anybody does and am not saying my way is right, just sharing our experience).
As far as Sarah, I think it’s actually kind of a perfect first name in this instance because it is so plain and neutral. Lots of fun middle names go with it. I think it this case, I would try to think ahead 5 years and see how you *think* you will feel then. Will you regret not using Sarah??? Or regret giving in and using it? In my own experience, I have actually regretted not using the family names. And in one instance we changed it only slightly (David to Davis) and I regret that too.
Good luck! You have two big decisions to make but all of your options are truly fine – don’t stress. :)
I love the name Emmeline. I think Sarah Emmeline sounds great, but I also like Emmeline Sarah for you, if you prefer it. I don’t have a strong opinion on surnames, but I think Sarah & Emmeline, in either order, are a wonderful combination.
I took my husbands last name because I liked the way it sounded better, but if my last name was better I would have expected him to take it (my old last name was very similar to Waffle).
It was important to me to have everyone in the family have the same name so that we could refer to ourselves as a united front. Similar to “The Murphy’s”.
I have met families where the daughter has the mothers last name and the son has the fathers last name and I think that is a great alternative if having one “family name” isn’t important to you.
As for changing your sons name to include yours, if it is really important to you, do it! For me, personally, I like having a shorter name and I think having two middle names would annoy me (but your kids probably won’t think twice about it because that’s just what their name has always been).
I LOVE the same Sarah Emmeline. Sarah is such a beautiful, classic, timeless name. I just used the middle name Emmeline for my daughter (same pronouciation; and in part due to the positive association of Emmeline Pankhurst). I also had someone mention that it sounded made up/trendy (before she was officially named) but it is a classic, beautiful name and I’m so happy we went with it. Emmeline Sarah is beautiful as well! Can’t go wrong either way! Maybe wait until she’s born to see what she looks like and then decide?
In summary, do what makes you happy :)
I was coming to say that in my state I believe it is about $400 to do a name change. There is a packet you get from a court house to fill out, you hand it in, and then they initiate a request for a hearing. You have to appear in court on the day they give you. I don’t remember anything about the newspaper, but there is the back and forth with getting all the new certificates/social security card/ etc worked out.
Sounds like the different surnames for each kid is getting quite common! My nieces have different surnames, my BIL & SIL say they chose whichever surname went better with the name they loved. It was the source of a game / competition of “how many Smithes are in the room as opposed to Joneses” when the the girls were young, but now in their teens it’s just a family story they love to tell. They live in a smaller town so everyone knows they’re sisters anyways. Long story short – I like the idea of your daughter having your surname.
Another story is I changed my youngest daughter’s middle names when she was 6 months old, but I’m afraid the process likely won’t be relevant as I’m in Canada (it was super easy and cheap if done before 1 year old.) One of the reasons was I felt we had pretty well covered both of my inlaws and my father in our girls’ names, but nothing for my mother. So my youngest’s second middle is now my mother’s middle name (also a very predominant name in her name) instead of my surname. I kept thinking of my surname as my family tie, but in fact it has nothing to do with my mother (especially as she is now remarried.) That didn’t sit well and I’m glad we made the change!
I think there are so very many ways to name a child these days and it’s so fascinating and personal. And there is no right – just right for your child.
Good luck! The strongest voice will be your own, obviously, but I vote for Emmeline Sarah
My votes:
Add your maiden as a second middle to your son’s name. Heck, I would even advocate for you adding it as a second middle for all of your children regardless of gender. It might be a mouthful but won’t be used all that often.
I would personally go with Sarah Emmeline. It feels a shame to break the tradition (esp when she can go by her middle on a daily basis) and I like the flow a tad better than Emmeline Sarah. If you end up not using it as a first, I would def advocate for you using it in the middle. Oh, and love Emmeline and I don’t find Emme/Emmy to be too cutesy.
If you’re still wanting to have Sarah as the first name but find it too plain, it would work great as a double-barreled first name! Something like:
Sarah Beth
Sarah Blythe (this would bring some spunk to Sarah!)
Sarah Bells
Sarah Brynn
Sarah Kate
Sarah Jo (or Josephine)
Sarah Bea
Sarah Maeve
Sarah Mae
Sarah Kaye
Sarah Faye
Sarah Jane
Otherwise Sarah Emmeline (called Emmeline) or Emmeline Sarah with whatever surname you want is beautiful!
If my son had been a girl, we were going to use the double-barrel name Sara Rose.
Also Sarah Quinn!
One more vote for Emmeline Sarah! Go with what you love!!! :)
Also, would you consider a variation/relative of Sarah as a first name? Sarai, Sarina, Suri, Sari
Similar sounding: Seraphine/Serafina/Seraphina, Zara
Also, Sarah nn Sally is very sweet and not that much of a hassle to explain. James and Sally are cute together!
I’ve been thinking about this topic a lot. For me, in a way, it seems less meaningful to put Sarah in the first spot if you’re going to just “ignore” or “cast off” the name and call her by her middle name. If you put Sarah in the middle, in a way it feels more complete, and truly part of her name.
I love your answer, Swistle. I kept my name when I got married, and we gave our first child my last name as second middle name and his as last name. But I’m pregnant with second (and final) child and I am strongly considering putting his last name as second middle, and mine as the last name. I don’t think it matters to me if the baby is a girl or boy as far as choosing a last name. So much to think about!
My husband and I both hyphenated when we married. We put my name first for reasons of flow and because his last name is goofy/embarrassing (B@ng). Though I don’t, as it turns out really like having a hyphenated name. It requires a good bit of spelling and explaining.
When we had our daughters, we ended up using just my last name for them. There were a lot of reasons for this: a cumbersome hyphenated name (where both names aren’t particularly common), the goofiness of hubby’s last name, and a difficult relationship with my father-in-law’s family. We’re also feminists, which isn’t the reason we did what we did, but it gave us actual options when it came to naming. Conveniently, while we don’t have the same exact last name as our daughters, we have the first part in common–so there’s been very little confusion (and only some hurt feelings).
My take, based on my experience: there should be a lot more pragmatic and open-ended discussion about last names at marriage and with the naming of children, with more options on the table. Whatever the solution is, if it’s made fairly and equally, I think that goes a long, long way.
I didn’t change my name when I married. My husband didn’t care at all. But when I got pregnant with our son and we started discussing surnames it got heated and complicated. One thing I knew for certain: I did not want my children to have my husband’s surname and only his name. In fact, I internally bristled every time my grandmother-in-law talked about baby HisLastName (and when she calls me MyFirstName HisLastName). I very much wanted to give my children my last name for a variety of reasons. I do think, when it came down to it, my husband would have agreed to give my name to children. But I knew he would be doing it because I’m stubborn and it would always hurt him just a bit. When it came time to fill out the birth certificate I told him to put the portmanteau we’d made up on the paperwork. He was thrilled.
We refer to our family as either the “MyLastName HisLastName family” or the “Portmanteau family”. A few people haven’t been thrilled. A few still don’t know (aforementioned grandmother-in-law for one). But most people seem to think it was a great, fun, and unique solution. LO is still a baby and no one questions his parentage when he’s being toted in a sling but I expect that we’ll come up on some issues as he grows. I doubt those issues will outweigh how good we feel about the name, though.
It’s so great to hear from all these other families whose kids have different name. I kept my name. Our daughter (firstborn) has my husband’s last name and my last name as a middle. Our son has my last name and my husband’s as a middle.
To be honest this was not the super easy decision that it seemed to be for a lot of commenters. My husband was resistant at first — he saw my point but he was the last male in his family and really wanted his son to “carry on the name.” I almost gave up the argument several times, because for him it seemed really personal and for me it seemed more like an abstract principle — I want to live in a world where men aren’t the only ones to pass on their names, but I hated the idea that insisting on this would hurt the man who *I* loved.
Finally, I made my case one final time and told him how important it was to me to have my son carry on my last name. Then I told him that ultimately it was his decision — that if it really meant so much to him, he could give his son his last name, and that I would be a little upset but that I would get over it. We were in the hospital, just minutes before we were scheduled to leave. I handed him the paperwork. He filled out the birth certificate packet, then handed it to me, crying. He had given our son my last name. I was so incredibly proud of him at that point.
His parents ended up giving us a LOT of pushback — they wrote us a very angry email the next day, which was awful. They’ve come around now (by which I mean they’ve stopped talked about it). And actually, their resistance brought my husband completely over to my side — now he is 110% excited that we gave our son my last name, and wanted to send his parents academic articles about how passing on the son’s last name reinforces a long history of treating women as property (I told him this was probably NOT the best strategy for bringing his parents around, and so he held back).
Anyway, I’m very glad we did it. And glad to hear it worked out for so many other people.
PREACH!!! This may be your best response ever, Swistle. So many issues that we as a society rarely discuss, if even consider. Why do we not care about women’s last names? (And I hate the excuse that women’s last names are just their dad’s last names. We never disparage men’s names in the same way.)
To share my own situation, my husband and I both kept our last names when we got married, no discussions needed. When we got pregnant years later, we discussed for MONTHS what to do with the baby’s last name(s). We considered hyphenation but it would have resulted in a 7-syllable 18-letter combo which felt like a lot to saddle a kid with, especially since neither of us was willing to hyphenate and carry such a long last name. We went back and forth about giving one in the middle spot and one in the last, but debated the order. In the end, the decision came down to the fact that there were/are tons of Mylasts – in my family tree & in my city (all distantly related). My last name is well represented. My husband is the last of the Hislasts in the U.S. His cousins and siblings all have different names and his nieces/nephews as well. He didn’t want his last name to die out. So, I compromised and put my last in the middle spot and his last in the last spot. I know that is a common compromise for man/women couples, but I was happy that we really discussed all the options and did not just go with the default with no other considerations! In the end, it works pretty well. My daughters both have my last as their only middles, so my last is on all of their government and school documents. They say/use my name frequently and love being the only “Mylast Hislast” people in the world. But I love hearing about families that break patriarchal naming traditions!!
My kids have my last name as a second middle name. I am happy enough with the decision, I suppose. I picked their first & middle names from a list we had both agreed on. At the last minute, my husband got cold feet about our 3rd (& last) child’s name and wanted to pick a different first name. I told him that was fine, but he only got to pick her first name OR her last name, not both. So if he wanted his first choice for her first name, she would get my last name. He decided he liked the name I picked after all, so all our kids have his last name.
Oh Swistle! Such a strong feminist plus a traditional nuclear family mom. I love that combo.
L., I hope that you find a name and a way forward that is true to the family that you are in the midst of creating.
Whatever you choose will be right, because it will be what you chose. It might surprise others initially but for your children (and eventually for others who care about you), it will be your family’s normal.
Some more surname examples: I grew up in a town where very few children shared a surname with both parents. I can think of one girl who had a brother and (half-)sister called (names analogous to) William Rose and Rose Williams. There were at least two more surnames among her other (half- and ‘full’) siblings. I even went to school with a brother and sister with no surname!
My brother and I have a hyphenated surname, ‘Motherslast-Fatherslast’. Both are unusual names in Australia. We use the full name for official documents, my brother uses Motherslast the rest of time and I use the full thing or occasionally just Motherslast. Our other brother has his father’s last name.
We don’t feel any less like a family, and no one else has ever been confused about our relationships with one another (or, if they were, they hid it well).
Whatever feels right for you will work.
In regards to the Sarah tradition, again: whatever you choose will be OK. Sarah Emmeline isn’t too cutesy. Emmeline Sarah is lovely. So is Emmeline with another middle. I love naming traditions, though I might feel differently if I felt I had no choice but to use a particular name. But if you don’t use Sarah, you’re not breaking the tradition – you’re pausing it, changing it from a rule to a tradition. Those male-only generations didn’t end the line of Sarah’s, and neither will a generation or two of Sarah-in-the-middles, or even some Sarahless generations. Your daughter can choose to follow the tradition, but you will have given her the freedom to participate without the weight of obligation.
A last anecdote: I have a friend who I’ll call Jane Margaret Lastname. She told me she comes from a long line of (names like) Jane Margaret, daughter of Margaret Jane, daughter of Jane Margaret, and so on. I pointed out that her mother’s name was (a name like) Mary. Oh sure, she said, there’s some Marys in there too. Traditions are resilient, and a few Marys in the mix won’t leave your daughter disconnected from her family or history. If you teach her about the tradition and tell her why you chose her name (whatever that’s choice may be), she will always know that thought and care went into her name.
You’ll do great – the fact that you’re worrying about this shows that whatever you choose will be well-considered and meaningful.
I love you so much, Swistle. This is SUCH a perfect response.
Me and my partner have decided that when we marry, he’ll take my surname. We decided this early on in our relationship and it’s so set in stone now that I bought him a wallet with his future initials embossed on! I wouldn’t have changed my surname either way but he was eager to take mine – not because he hates his own but because he loves mine, he loves me and he thinks it’s more important to honour my lineage. I forget whose idea it was in the very beginning but there was no talking him into it – he feels strongly about re-adressing the balance and looks forward to being a Marks.
Both me and my brother have my mother’s maiden name as our second middle name. It was a real fight for my mother: my father had registered my birth and not included it so I was issued an original birth certificate without the name but she insisted it be re-done to include it. I really valued having it as part of my name, especially after my parents divorced. It was something that was extremely important to me growing up and I think that your children would feel the same. I would actually like to include my mother’s maiden name in any future children’s middle names too but I think we’d probably have my partner’s maiden name instead! That seems more fair, hahaha!
I think Emmeline Sarah HisSurname YourSurname is the one. I’m really just here for some extra moral support, L. Hope you’re reading all these comments and feeling stronger for them. You can do it!
The Indian naming system, at least in the part of India that my parents are from, takes is a step FURTHER with the patriarchal symbolism. Not only is it expected that the woman and the entire family takes on the Father’s surname as the family name, but we are expected to take on the father’s/husband’s first name as our middle names.
For example, my, my brother’s, and my mom’s middle names are my dad’s first name. My dad’s middle name is his dad’s middle name.
My mom’s younger cousins who grew up in the states and just recently had got married/had kids have already started to break that tradition, which I so grateful they have. They faced criticism from family members all over the world, but they’ve paved the way for future generations. I could never go from having my dad’s first name as my middle name to having my husband’s first name as my middle name. The symbolism of that is just something I can’t stomach.
The point I’m trying to make is, I’m loving all the family’s who are trailblazers and paving the way for future generations of woman who are tired of having their family name dropped from existence (essentially), at least for her direct descendants. I’m loving that you are not putting the misogynistic pressure on families to have boys, other wise your “family name will die out.” What kind of BS is that?!? Am I not part of the family? Does me being a girl make me any less part of the family? Does me being a girl mean that my family has died at my generation if I don’t have any brothers/male cousins? It’s asinine and I’m so proud and grateful for all the families that are doing it different!