Dear Swistle,
We have triplet boys and are expecting our fourth (and last), a girl. (Yay!) With the boys, we used family names for their middle names and tried to keep their first names in the same theme but with different first and last initials to give them their own individuality. I love that they are connected with their familial middle names but have distinct first names. The middle names are their two grandfathers’ names and my maiden name. (All the children and I have my husband’s last name as our last name.)
Obviously, we would like to continue this tradition with the girl, but we have two grandmothers to honor and only one child to name this time (which, honestly, thank goodness!). If the situation were reversed, and we had all girl triplets with single middle names and a boy on the way, I would have no qualms about giving him both grandfathers’ names as middle names. With a girl, however, I am less inclined to do this, as girls are more wont to accumulate even more names in life (for instance, my married name is my first name-middle name-maiden name (second middle name now)-last name (husband’s name). Of course, there’s no telling what my daughter will decide to do name-wise if and when she gets married, but I’d rather not run the risk of saddling her with a five name full name or of making her decide which name(s) to axe.
i would also not like to elevate either grandmother’s name into the first name spot. I don’t like the superiority it grants to one grandmother, and I would prefer to have the freedom to choose a name of our liking for the first name. The names in question are Elaine and Nina. I briefly thought of combining the name into one – Elainina – but that both feels like it doesn’t adequately honor either grandmother, and my husband informed me that in his native tongue the word translates roughly to “venison”! (ha!)
My mother has told me that we should choose any names we want, and that she will not be offended if her name doesn’t make it in (she is a very reasonable and unmanipulative woman, so I take her words at face value). My mother-in-law is less reasonable and more prone to histrionics. Sigh. I do not have a bad relationship with her, and would not like to engender one, but I also don’t want to determine part of my child’s name (and leave out my own beloved mother’s name) just on the basis of appeasing her.
So, is there some solution that I haven’t thought of here? What am I missing? Or is this just intractable?
Thank you so, so, so much, Swistle!
Robin
This is one of the troubles with honor names: not being able to honor everyone, and/or not being able to make it work out fairly. When we had our first son, we used the name of one of my grandfathers (the one I was much closer to) as his middle name. We didn’t know if we’d have any more boys so that we could use our other three grandfathers’ names: we just picked the one that was most important to us to use. At the time I don’t remember being much stressed out by it. We emphasized the honor name to the one grandfather who was honored, and didn’t say anything about it to the others, and also I was thinking no one would expect us to give the child all four of our grandfathers’ names at once.
But your case is a little different. If I understand it correctly, you have honored both of the children’s grandfathers, and now the plan is to honor one grandmother, which leaves out one of the children’s four grandparents while honoring all three of the others? Yes. I see what you mean. This is tricky.
I am generally disinclined to think ahead to what a child will do with their name upon marriage. I do give it a little thought, but it’s so impossible to predict how things will go. I gave all five of my kids (the girl as well as the boys) two middle names, with the understanding that any/all of the kids might choose to drop/add some names later on—and that that can be up to them. It’s a decision I feel they can handle, especially if I don’t make a big deal about it. Most people only use first/last in regular life, plus maybe a single middle initial for paperwork; it doesn’t seem to matter how many names are in between. And in your case, when I weigh “leaving out just one of four grandparents” on one hand, against “child might have to make a decision about how to manage names later on as an adult” on the other hand, it’s the one about excluding one grandparent that makes me feel stressy.
So I think that is what I would do here: I would give her both grandmothers’ names as middle names. I would do something like flip a coin to determine name order, and I would make that method known, if you want to avoid a feeling of ranking/superiority. I would leave it up to her what to do about those names later on.
But I also like the idea of combining the names. I like the sound of Ninalaine, if that doesn’t mean anything silly in your husband’s native language—or maybe even if it does: when there’s no solution that gives everything, this seems like a good place to sacrifice.
Or depending on the particular honor-name feelings/opinions of your particular families, you could start playing around with other things. Like both names have an N and an I and an A; would anyone feel honored by Ani? Or perhaps your daughter’s first/middle names could have the initials N.E. or E.N.
Actually, the more I think about this, the more I think THIS is what I’d do: use neither name. If anything needs to be said on the subject, say “With triplets we could use both grandfather names. But with only one girl—we didn’t want to favor one of you over the other. So instead we went with _______.” You don’t by any chance have a name that appears in both family trees, do you? Maybe you both have an aunt or grandmother or great-grandmother or great-aunt with the same name? Or do you have only one sister between you, so you could use her name? Or is there another family surname that could be used?
Another reason I like this Use Neither idea is that you have already honored two grandparents plus used your maiden name; honoring a third grandparent not only leaves out one grandparent, it makes one child’s name different. This doesn’t actually bother me, but it’s another excuse if you need one. We used names of our grandparents for two of the children’s honor names, but then split from that concept and went with other people (a parent, a friend, and a great-uncle) for the others.
But I want to say I also LOVE Nina Elaine. I know you don’t want to elevate one grandmother over the other, but it’s such a pretty name.
How do you feel about Elina? A combo name that’s a little less awkward than Elainina?
I don’t think I would worry at all about the possibility that your daughter might accumulate more names in the future. For one thing, that will be entirely her decision–and if she’s as tied to her middle names as you are, she may opt out; if she’s okay with lopping off a name or squeezing in additional ones, that’s completely up to her, too.
Furthermore, I think we have every reason to believe that the practice of wives’ adopting their husbands’ names will by then be much less of a default expectation and maybe even a quaint relic. The numbers have already changed a fair amount in the past 30 years; they’ll change even more by the time she grows up!
Long story short, I don’t think your using either (or neither) name will really make any difference in her decisions about whether to take on a future spouse’s name!
(For the record, I have two given middle names, will not be taking my fiancé’s name, and don’t consider those two facts even remotely related! It didn’t even occur to me till just before posting this comment that my own situation is relevant. I never think of my two middle names as a problem.)
I like Elina! Captures both equally and is very pretty.
yes! I was also going to suggest Elaina (pronounced ee-LANE-uh) as an alternative but yours captures the sound of Nina better.
I am Jewish and we often just use the first letter of an ancestor’s name as inspiration. So if there are E and N names you like better, that could be an option too. For E, I like Elizabeth, Emily, Eleanor, Eden, Esther, and Etta. For N, there’s Naomi and Nora and Nell (looooove Nell).
Is there something else of your mom’s that you could honor if using her name isn’t the most important thing to her? Like is there a song, saint, season, famous person, bible verse, flower, attribute, ancestor, color, etc. that is meaningful to her that could inspire a first name, and then your MIL’s name as a middle?
A couple other combo options that are further afield, but might do the trick:
Elaina (which sounds much closer to one grandma’s name but does in fact contain all but the first/last letter of each)
Nia (using the three letters that are in both names… this one sounds closer to the other grandma’s name)
Otherwise, I also would go with both names in the middle. Too many unknowns in the what-about-when-she-gets-married question to make a decision based on that.
I’d be inclined to use both or neither. But unless you love both grandmother names, I’d say use neither and just pick a name you love that has nothing to do with either grandmother.
This might be the perfect time to think way outside the box about honouring the grandmothers. If you do a christening or naming ceremony or anything like that, maybe you could let the 2 grandmas play a central, joint, starring role? Maybe you could arrange a photography session with both grandmas and the baby and get a beautiful portrait for the nursery?
I do think you are over thinking not giving a girl 2 middle names. It also has just a smack of sexism behind it that I think I would be bothered using “she’ll be more likely to change her name when she marries” as a reason not to just use both names. What if your daughter never gets married? Gets married and chooses to keep her full birth name? If she does marry & decides to change her name, it’ll be up to her to decide, and as parents, I think we should trust that our children will grow up capable enough of making those kinds of decisions.
You don’t want to use one name as a first name because it will elevate one grandmother. But doesn’t using only one name for the middle & leaving one name out still elevate one grandmother over the other? For me, the choice really boils down to A. Use both names B. Use neither name. In the case of using neither name, I think another family name is a good idea. Even better if you can find one that works for both sides of the family. If not, maybe look away from picking a name that honors an actual person you know & find something meaningful to you & your husband. Location, literary character, admired historical figure, name with religious meaning to you, etc.
I think in this situation, my personal preference would be to use neither name. Mainly because I wouldn’t want to mess with drama from my MIL. If you do use both, you’ll still be faced with the decision (and possible hurt feelings/drama) about which name is the 1st middle & which name is the 2nd middle. To me, it kind of sounds like it wouldn’t be worth the headache.
Ooh. This is such a tough one. When I first started reading, I was in the ‘Skip the Honour Names’ camp, but seeing that your MIL might be offended, it’s worth a lot, even if it seems unfair.
In our case, it ended up being all or nothing. My first daughter got a first name that honoured all four grandparents (although my mom only slightly as it touched on the second middle name of my grandmother that we never knew she had), my dad got the second middle with my maiden name, my FIL got the surname for her. I realized after my second daughter was born and named (in rather a rushed way) that we hadn’t honoured my mom (her first name is after my MIL’s mom.) So we actually went back to the drawing board with her middle names when she was six months old. And while to others it might have seemed trivial, I’m relieved and content to now see balance throughout my two daughters’ names (first name is a tweaked honour, first middle is one we just love, second middle honours directly.)
Too bad your smoosh idea doesn’t translate well. You’re getting some other great options that hopefully will land well! Ninalaine is quirky and fun, Elina seems clever and perfect, Elaina could also work on a dime though doesn’t show much of Nina. I love the idea of searching your family trees on the grandmothers’ sides for a shared name. Or do their middles or maiden names combine better? Or are they both born in a certain season or love the same flower or song or place? I’m sure we’d all love to help you brainstorm with more to go on.
My only new thought is to choose a middle name that means mother or grandmother, and then it’s a story to tell her about how you wanted to honour them equally but only wanted to give her one middle, so you found a wonderful idea in…. (look up mother meanings, like Dar, Mari, Moa, Maylis)…
Or could you do an El- name for the first and Nina in the second spot? Only if you find an El- name you love of course.
It sounds like you would like to honor your mother without causing a whole bunch of grief with your mother in law. What if you did something like ask your mom the name of her favorite grandmother and using that as a secret honor to your mother? You don’t even need to make a big deal out of it to your mother (if you want to keep it that far on the down low), she will probably get it, and you don’t need to tell your mother in law at all – you can just say it was a name on the family tree you both liked.
One other option is to also give this daughter you maiden as middle (I know you already gave it to one of your triplets). Giving the new child your middle would set up a nice complement among the sibs- 2 children get grandpa names and 2 get mommy’s maiden name.
I do also agree with Swistle that Nina Elaine is a beautiful name and you could totally do worse than simply honoring both of your mothers.
I’d use both and give her two middle names.
I’d either use both – Nina Elaine is gorgeous – or I’d use neither.
Why not your name as a middle name? My youngest, born last year, has two middle names. One is my sister’s name and one is my name. I thought it might be weird to have my name as (one of) her middles, but you know what? I like it. A lot. There’s a nice special mother-daughter connection there.
In this case, I would find a different honor name to use. It’s generous of your mom to say she wouldn’t be hurt if you didn’t use her name; that just makes me more unwilling to reward your MIL for being difficult.
It’s understandable that you would have different naming patterns for one girl than you would for triplet boys. If you cannot find another family member or friend, what about a name that is meaningful to you as a couple? A place you met or a favorite vacation?
Another vote for using neither. It just seems to be more trouble than it is worth. I love the suggestions of using your name or a name completely unrelated to either side of the family that means something to you and your husband.
I am a lover of family names, so my inclination would be to use both as middles, use Elina or Ninalaine as a single middle (I like both, Elina a little better), or (and this is what I personally would probably do) use Nina Elaine for first and middle unless I was head over heels in love with another name.
What about middle name Linnea or Lena?
Maybe Eliana or Elena as a middle name?
What are the grandmothers’ middle names? Any possibilities there? For instance, my mom and MIL’s names are very ’50s style (Linda, Debbie) but their middle names are Kathleen and Ann–much more doable!
Yes, I was also wondering this.
My middle is mom’s mom’s middle combined with dad’s mom’s first.
I never would have gone to Elainina? But Elaina would seem fine. Also enjoyed the suggestion of Elina.
Are we able to know the grandmothers middles?
Middle names are Dianna and Michaelevna (Russian tradition of giving children their father’s name as a middle name – for girls it’s with the suffix -evna (or -ovna, something like that) and for boys -ovich).
Yeah, Elainina was not meant entirely seriously – though I am amused that it turned out to mean venison! Elina and Elaina (and even Elena) are all very pretty and would work in a pinch, but I think I would prefer to use the names as an all or nothing.
I was hoping there would be some kind of shared meaning to draw from or something of that nature but it is harder than I thought! I do like the idea below of extending the tradition of naming after the father – Emilia? But there is no easy solution to this one!
You’re killing me by not including the names of your boys!
:) Boys are Roman, Alexander and Liev. Hubby is Russian, so we went with a Russian theme. Not sticking with that (at least not strictly) with the girl – more likely to give her a name with international flair that transliterates well to Russian but that is not exclusively Russian.
Thank you!! Great names! I have no suggestions but wish you the best!
Thanks! We are fond of them, obviously. It was a wrench choosing them, though – I just find boy names so tough (thank goodness #4 is a girl!).
Here is how I would rank the options if I were in your shoes:
1. Honor one grandma with a variation on their name as the FN and the other with her exact name as the middle name. For example, Elizabeth Nina or Naomi Elaine. That feels like about the same weight for each honor.
2. Honor neither of them. Choose a different honor name from higher up on the family tree. Ideally it’s a name that’s found on both sides.
3. Do a mash-up on both names. I like Eliana, Lena or Nell. You may even like one of the mashup options enough to be a FN, and can then choose another honor name as the middle.
4. Two middle names.
5. Break tradition completely. It’s your first girl. Your first singleton. Your last chance to use all your favorite names. You made the rules, and can totally change them.
I’m currently expecting our first child. If we have a girl her name will be Hazel Jane. Hazel is my husband’s favorite grandmother’s middle name and Jane is my favorite grandmother’s middle name. We picked Hazel as the first, because we liked it a little more. I don’t believe it’s elevating one grandmother over another. I would literally swoon if I was able to use Nina as an honor name. I think Nina Elaine would be gorgeous, and in the long run I don’t think you would be unhappy with that. Good luck!
I would use both as middles. Nina Elaine is gorgeous, and I think it’s more of an honor to use each actual name rather than a mashup.
I wouldn’t worry about it being too long if she gets married – she can make the decision of what to do then, and I wouldn’t let a hypothetical situation 18+ years in the future affect her name for her entire childhood and early adulthood.
There’s also this thing of being baby sister to boy triplets!! So awesome. For some reason, arming her with 2 middle names seems really appropriate with 3 older brothers, like, kid, here’s three names you’re going to need them!
Ha, good point!
I think that when your children have your husband’s last name they are already honoring his side. So if you, in your heart, want to give the baby your mom’s name (and not his mom’s), I do not think you should feel guilty at all.
However I see no problem with two middle names. You could even hyphenate if you really wanted just one (Nina-Elaine).
I do think if there is another relative whose name could be used that would be a nice option. For instance, perhaps your maternal grandmother, especially if your mother was/is close to her mother? I think if there was a little more generational distance, perhaps your MIL would be less easily offended by the honor name not mentioning her specifically.
Why reward you MIL for being manipulative and punish your mother for being reasonable? I think you should explain the situation to your Mom and together find a middle that more subtly honors her while leaving out both grandmothers first names.
For example, if I was in this siuation with my Mom, I would probably go with the middle name Nancy. This is not her name and use of it would mean nothing to my mother-in-law but we would that know my mother is an avid reader who loved the Nancy Drew books as a girl. My Mom has collected some of the books again to share with her granddaughters. So the middle name would honor my Mom and create a bind to her and my little girl that would not come across as a choosing one grandmom over the other.
Another vote for Nina Elaine, it’s beautiful and you can say you tossed a coin to see which went first.
What about Nina Elaine as a two name first name and use another name as a middle?
I like the idea of using your first name for your daughter’s middle. Or is there an obvious feminization of your husband’s name?
Very obvious! Husband’s name is Emil. ;)
What about using Emily or something like that for middle? After husband, obviously, encorporating Russian tradition (for husbands family, and in keeping with the boy’s names), and starting with an E like your mom.
Oh I like this idea – Emilia?
I am totally in love with giving her a middle to honor your husband. Even your MIL couldn’t argue with that!
I agree with so many of the previous comments!
Giving a girl two middle names is just fine.
I love Elina, which is a mashup but also a “real” name. It’s very pretty and has good cosmopolitan potential. Its function would be a little different from your boys’ middle names; instead of honoring one person, it celebrates the fact that the combination of your family and your husband’s led to this special child.
I also think you shouldn’t feel like you have to use a family name for your daughter just because you did so with your boys. Robin would be darling as a middle, or you could pick a different bird (Lark, Raven, Sparrow, Kestrel, Linnet?). Or, since she’s your fourth child, a name meaning “four” or “fourth” could be cute: Tetra, Tessera, Quarta. (I used an online translator to look up “four” in Russian, but it doesn’t seem very namelike.)
My 3 sons all have family names as middle names..our daughter is Elaina Michael. .Elaina, because I loved it and Michael because her dad loved that. She is 28 and it has never worried her that she didn’t get a family name. She knows her name was chosen because we loved it and it is hers alone. she shared her surname with her brothers and her paternal grandparents. Her relationship with her grandmother’s did not suffer because she did not have their name.
If you decide that you absolutely need to honor both grandmothers my vote would be use both. I would prefer Elaine Nina. ( to not give in to pressure from MIL ;) ) but In actual fact Nina Elaine does sound better..depending on first name of course.
I of course also thought Elaina but maybe not enough of Nina in there to keep MIL happy?– what about Ellaina (ella-ina)
A) Use both names. I’m sure your daughter will be a capable person in the future enough to make her own decisions.
B) Use neither. What about your GIVEN NAME (or a variation of it) or your own MIDDLE as your girl’s mn?
Another vote for your name as a middle name. You’ve raised triplets and gone on to have another, that’s well worth a tribute. It’s super common for boys to be named after their fathers, we should encourage this for girls too.
If it was me, I’d use both names. (Name you choose) (honor) (honor) (surname). I’m not digging the squish name options. When announcing, I’d just say the name. No explanation about the name order. If someone does raise that question, you choose the order because you liked the way the names flow/sound. If someone asks about which name she’ll drop upon marriage (like that is a given), I recommend looking puzzled and then have an answer that shows you totally comfortable with any choice she makes with her name.
My mom poo-poo’ed honor names when I was pregnant and then was moved to tears when we honored her.
I think 2 names is wonderful but if you only want one middle I’d use your moms. Tell MIL (if she dares say anything) that all 4 kids have your husbands last name so you wanted to balance out families. She’ll get over it.
I am named after both grandmothers- Christi is my maternal grandmother’s middle name and my middle name Fern is my paternal grandmothers first name. Neither of my sisters has an honor name at all. They never felt jilted or shorted. As a matter of fact I have always wondered why the youngest got stuck with the name since I have never liked my middle name. You could also do something like Dianna Emil which would honor both. Your mother’s middle name and following a traditional format to honor your MIL. I had an aunt named Emil so you could just use that or you could go with Dianna Emily or Dianna Emilevena, or some other name that starts with Emil. That would give them both the same level of honor. Also, if you want to use two middle names go for it. Both of mine have two middle names. Both middle names are honor names. If my girl decides that she wants to drop one or both and keep her maiden name as the middle or just keep her name and not take her husbands or never gets married, that ‘s her choice. I’m not too worried about it. My guy could decide to do the same thing. Who knows.