Hi Swistle,
An acquaintance (husband’s coworker and his wife) are expecting their third baby. They have two adorable children with pretty “normal” names; recognizable, relatively easy to spell, easy to pronounce, etc. Their last name is [ ].
Yesterday, there was an office baby sprinkle for the family (we got together for a meal and everyone brought them diapers). During the lunch, they revealed the name for the new baby: [ ].
I’m all for people choosing names to their tastes, and I know that I’m not going to like everyone’s names (and that’s fine!), but I can’t believe they haven’t thought how terrible [the name] sounds. Like it sounds like someone is [cheating or scamming a commendable organization]. I’ve been saying it out loud over and over since yesterday and I can’t shake how troubling it sounds to me.
We’re seeing them again this weekend and I’m wondering if this is something I should mention to the mom-to-be. All I can think of is if the name is brought up in conversation, I could just say, “Hey, did you consider that the baby’s name sounds like this? Are you and Husband comfortable with this?”
I feel so awkward about the entire thing. Am I overreacting to my impression of this name? Do I just stay quietly to the side and watch this unfold? I’m leaning toward keeping my mouth shut and learning to contain my cringes whenever we see them.
Thanks for your help!
CC
I’m uneasy about posting someone else’s baby name here, so I’ve removed that part. It’s too bad, because having an example really helps when considering the issue. On the other hand, many of us have probably wondered a similar thing about a totally different situation, so perhaps we could just discuss more generally whether it’s a good idea to speak up when you see an issue with a name that has not yet been officially given to a baby.
Here are the reasons FOR speaking up:
1. The parents may seriously not have thought of the issue, and may agree it’s a serious concern, and may end up with serious name regret later if they don’t realize the issue ahead of time.
Here are the reasons AGAINST speaking up, at least in this particular example:
1. It seems like the kind of feedback people generally dislike.
2. They haven’t asked for feedback.
3. They haven’t said it’s a name they’re considering, they’ve said it’s the name they’ve chosen.
4. As people living with that surname, it seems likely they’ve thought of the issues with it.
5. There really isn’t any good way to say it. Asking if they’re comfortable with it seems to imply that the only natural answer is “No.”
6. I think most of the possible outcomes of such a discussion are going to be negative outcomes.
I think what we’d need here is a balance scale to figure out whether the possible reasons to speak are worth the possible reasons against it, but the trouble is we can only guess at all the weights and measurements. On one side we’d put “How serious a problem is this?”—and as we know from letters and comments on this blog, there is wide disagreement on this kind of thing. One person’s “Oh, man, stay WAY away from THAT!” is another person’s “Who cares? You can find a problem with ANY name.” And there are all the places in between: for example, parents noticing the issue but concluding that it’s worth it for this particular name.
On the other side of the scale we’d put “How likely are they to shoot/resent the messenger and/or be thrown into unnecessary doubt and turmoil?”—and again, we just don’t know. If they were to easily change the chosen name and thank you with great relief, that would probably be okay; if they keep the name, they may always remember you as a person who disliked their baby’s name and tried to talk them out of it. Or they may decide in the end not to change it, but spend the rest of the pregnancy feeling very unhappy and stressed about it. Or maybe not! Maybe they’re extremely laid-back people who believe in frank talk and would easily shrug off anyone’s input if they didn’t agree.
Here is how I think I’d think it through, if it were my husband’s co-worker’s wife:
1. I am uncertain how big of an issue this thing bugging me actually is: would it seem like a problem to LOTS of people, or just a few? This is not something I can know; I can only guess.
2. I am distant from these people, relationship-wise.
3. If it IS a big issue to a large number of people, and they have been telling everyone the name, SURELY someone has already pointed it out to them.
4. If not, that still doesn’t mean it needs to be ME who says something.
That is, I think I would let the “How serious of a problem is this?” side of the balance scale be in charge of automatically generating a response from someone other than me. If it’s a big deal, someone else will say something: there are always people who don’t give a single thought to whether or not their input would be welcome (*thinks briefly of my late mother-in-law*). And if it’s not a big deal, then no one will say anything and I will be glad I didn’t either.
It’s a tough call, though. Even with my strong interest in baby names and all my careful attention to detail, we realized only a couple of years after one child was born that we’d given initials that spelled something (in a license plate / text speak kind of way, or else we would have noticed it earlier). Luckily it wasn’t anything BAD. But if it HAD been bad, I would have been glad to have noticed it beforehand. And perhaps my husband’s co-worker’s wife would be the perfect person to point it out: none of the baggage of hearing it from my mother-in-law, for example.
I say TELL THEM. From the time I’ve spent following this blog, I’ve realized I am relatively hard-nosed on this topic, and almost entirely unmoved by any considerations of how the parents will FEEL about your assessments of their taste. A child will have to wear this name for his entire life, or until he/she is old enough to change it–it’s not an outfit the parent is wearing or a piece of artwork on the parent’s wall. So the fact that the parents might be hurt or made uncomfortable by a criticism of the name simply does not matter (except for relationship reasons–but a true friend can be honest about something he/she thinks is important, like a potentially very bad name, no?).
Of course, this is within reason. If the name is Jane Smith, and your issue is that you find it boring, I say let it go. If the name is one that references something of which the parents are not aware, or that might cause other people cultural discomfort (Jemima, Cohen, etc.), SPEAK UP! If all goes well, the child will go places his/her parents never have, will experience things his/her parents never will. The fact that the parents weren’t aware of a possible negative judgment of the name they’ve chosen does NOT mean the child won’t be affected by that judgment.
Yes, the parents should get the final choice, but the beauty of raising a child in a community (of the sort that would be kind enough to organize an office sprinkle for a new baby) is that parents don’t have to rely on their own very limited judgments and opinions for all parenting decisions!
/rant
One other thing: I DO think it’s the responsibility of a caring parent to look for a name where the “Oh man, stay WAY away from that”s are relatively insignificant. No name will be liked by all, but there’s a big difference between looking for a judgment-proof name (impossible) and looking for a name where the judgments are few and non-substantive (possible). Use a reasonableness test. If the judgments you’re getting indicate offense/well-established negative meanings/the possibility of future discrimination against your child, that’s one thing. If the judgments are about how the name sounds with your last name/how many other children in your area have the name, feel free to disregard.
I would advocate for radical acceptance. If it is the finalized name, announced as a piece of information at a celebration, then they aren’t soliciting advice.
Or, perhaps, only say something if you’d say it about an infant. “Are you sure Slutterella is appropriate?”
SLUTTERELLA I AM DYING
Being that this is your husband’s co-worker and his wife and NOT immediate family, I personally would not say anything. I considered my coworkers friends but I would be offended if they said something about my child’s name. Perhaps the parents DID consider your concerns but they still didn’t care. I can see why you would feel awkward saying something to them which is why I wouldn’t. If it doesn’t feel right, don’t do it. This is also a great example of why a lot of people don’t even share names now is because they don’t want others input!
Exactly. I’m trying to picture this conversation. “Hey, um, Coworker, my wife says your baby name is terrible and wonders if you’ve ever said it out loud?” How does that possibly end well? “Oh, my goodness, Coworker, your wife is right? However did I miss that? Silly me, I guess it’s back to the drawing board!”
For everybody’s sake, nope. The name has been announced, and if officially their lookout. If this was a close friend or relative, then I might think differently. But too many degrees of separation here. And really, what’s the worst that can happen? They name the kid that, and a. nobody ever tells them that the kid sounds like a crime (hmm.. Conner?) because it really doesn’t occur to other people, b. people begin to snicker every time they hear the name, and they promptly nickname the kid, or c. they jump hoops to re-name their kid. If it’s c., then you nod and say, oh, dear, I wonder if that might be the case, but I know your hearts were set on it.
If seeing them again soon I would say “Oh, so you mentioned the name will be X – what is the story behind it?” and depending on the answer (“It is an old family name”, “we just came across it and loved it!”, etc.) I would know whether it would be okay to say something or not. And, if you choose to, just make sure it is with a light touch (“Ah, that is so great – I’m sure you’ve already considered that is sounds like X, will there be a middle name ?”).
I love this idea! I think that this is a way of sort of getting to the bottom of, yes they are aware of what the name implies, or no they are clueless and maybe you could say something.
I would not say anything to them. I would be offended if someone criticized my name choice.
I am super curious now! I really advise you to NOT say anything. If it is that bad, perhaps some family members will bring it up. I can think of few real life examples of people warning someone off a baby name, and none of the parents responded favorably or changed the name. Plus, if they do name the baby that after you mention your concern, it will be super awkward. That’s not the kind of thing the mom is likely to forget. Save yourself the grief.
I feel quite confident it is something like $windle Church or similar. Which sort of SOUNDS like a plausible name and is pleasing to the ear, but… I see the LW’s point.
I was thinking “Con Charity” myself.
Ha!
NO- I would NOT say anything. For these reasons;
-it’s their choice
-it could lead to hurt feelings
-it could hurt the working relationship for your husband or negatively affect his career if they are offended
-let someone else point it out if it is that obvious. Even if they have not shared with others, they will announce it once baby is born and if it’s that awful, someone will likely comment- best not you to burst their bubble!
I think you should relax and realize that this particular issue is not your job. If you were a sister or a very close friend, it might be different. But you’re not. It IS your job to love and support and trust this family. Second guessing parenting decisions by spouses of colleagues seems – out of bounds. In addition, some people give out “decoy” names so as not to announce the real name beforehand; others change their minds.
Good point about the decoy name!
For all the reasons Swistle laid out, I would NOT say anything. If it’s The Name already, saying something seems likely to cause hurt feelings and/or lingering irritation toward you and/or stress throughout the remainder of the pregnancy. Those negatives outweigh, in my mind, the chance that (if the issue is a Big Deal) no one else has mentioned it to them already.
(And I am dying of curiosity about what the name is.)
Since we’re talking about your husband’s coworker and their wife, I would say nothing at all unless I knew one of them reasonably well.
Now as to what I would say, I think it depends on what the problem is with the name. For instance if I just think it’s weird that the current children are George, William and they want to name baby number three AstroStar, I’d let it go, but maybe say something like, “Oh AstroStar! I would have never guessed that for this baby with your other names, is there a reason why?” And maybe they tell you their favorite cousin, AstroStar, died earlier this year and they want to honor them.
If it’s a problem of cultural sensitivity like in the Jemima or Cohen example mentioned above, I might encourage my husband to bring it up to them, if they’re close. Especially if the coworker isn’t originally from the US.
Cab you just send an anonymous note, or would they guess that is from you?!
I can speak from experience here. In my case, it was a friend and she technically asked for advice but I gave negative feedback on a couple of names (one of which she used!) and she still reminds me of it to this day many years later. Luckily she does it just to tease me/give me a hard time but I regret doing it – even though she asked for advice!! I was young and stupid because I realize now, after having my own kids, that it wasn’t my place to do so. She just wanted to have a fun discussion about names. Unless they specifically ask you “Can you think of any problems we might have with this name?” then I would consider it none of your business and move on.
No for all the reasons already stated. You cannot say something. If you were a close friend or sister- sure maybe. Not the wives of co-workers.
So curious about the name!
Hey everyone! Letter-writer here. Thanks for posting this, Swistle!
For the reasons, Swistle stated in her post, I’m not going to share the name on here (sorry, I know that a lot of you are curious and that it would help a lot). I should add that we are somewhere between acquaintances and friends; we’ve been at each other’s houses for small parties, but we go weeks without spending time together. Our husbands’ work community is very small, so it’s kind of a built-in community in itself.
After I wrote this email, I texted my cousins the name and asked their opinions; the cousins all live in other states and their paths will never cross with this family. They all agreed that the name wasn’t to their tastes and it wasn’t a great pairing of first and last name, but they didn’t have as strong of a reaction to the name as I did; I had to explain to one of them what my issue was with the name, so that clued me in that I was probably being a weirdo about this.
We also were at the coworker’s house for a BBQ over the weekend and the name is everywhere; their older children draw pictures for the baby, they have a pillow with her name, and the kids all call their mom’s baby bump by name. Clearly they’re attached to the name and me saying anything wouldn’t change that and would only make things super awkward going forward. Between that and my cousins’ reactions, I realized ti was much better to keep my mouth shut.
I’m so curious about what it could possibly be! I’m glad you made a decision that makes you feel comfortable.
Thanks for the follow-up and glad you were able to determine whether to say something or not. So there’s no way to give us clues as to what the first name of the baby is going to be or tell a name that would be similar?!
CC did a great job disguising the name in the post to avoid any problems with search engines, and I almost left it as it was. But I wondered, what if one of us happened to know this couple, and it got back to them, and they READ it? ACK. I know it’s a slim chance, but it was enough to stop me.
Ha, well that would be one way to let them know you hate the name they chose for their kid.
“Well, we had Slutterella* picked out, but then saw Brian’s coworker bash it on a baby naming blog.”
*Jessamy wins
I applaud your sensitivity and concerns Swistle!
I actually saw a family friend’s post here a few months ago (she’s due this week, maybe she’ll send an update!). It wasn’t controversial but she only disguised her last name a touch so it’s 100% obvious who it is. I’d be a little embarrassed if that were me even though she wrote nothing embarrassing. While I’m fully behind the logic of hiding this name so the mom or her friends won’t find the post, I think your readership’s love, devotion, and curiosity wins here. Ha, I had to try!!
I’m glad to see that the letter writer was able to get more perspective on the issue. However, I am firmly in the camp of never saying anything about baby names other than possibly, “Is there a story behind the name?” unless they specifically ask you for your opinion. You are not doing anyone any favors by commenting on their baby name choices, even if you think it’s bad. When we had our daughter, one of our top name considerations my family HATED. Every single time I saw them, they brought up how I shouldn’t use the name, how it sounds like “estrogen” and that I can’t saddle a child with such a horrible name. I just wanted to say, “Yeah, well some people think ‘Tucker’ is a legitimate name for a child. To each his own.” So, even if it’s a name just on the list of considerations, and even if it makes you think of another word every time you hear it, and even if you feel you have report, it is still no one’s business to say anything bad about a name.
Estrogen? I am completely baffled. I can’t think of any names that sound like Estrogen. Imogen is the closest I can come up with, and Imogen is lovely!
:) It’s a smoosh name. And that was part of the problem according to them, too.
I wanted to relay a story here in case some folks search later. A family friend laughs and laughs when telling this story and the story is retold a lot. Plus they have a very common last name, so I’ll mention it here. Taylor. The husband was a school teacher and was happily sharing the name they had chosen with his students. When Mr. T shared the chosen name – Jena – his whole class burst into laughter. He lives in a region where -or often turns into an -a sound. Basically, this name would sound like “genitalia” if said very fast. These two individuals were THRILLED to have been told that before they named their daughter Jenna.
This reminds me of Jennifer Nettles. I’ve met one, and there is also one in a famous country band. Jenn Nettles.
Oh my gosh, I’ve never thought of this about Jennifer Nettles! That’s too funny! And unfortunate…..
So this is a “Drew Peacock” situation, or a “not realizing Swyndall is a homophone for Swindle” situation? If it is either of those, please go ahead and say something. You’d be surprised how many people miss things like that. When I met my friend Ellie Gant (not her real name but similar) in our 20s, I asked about her name and she said no one had ever mentioned the word it makes. She asked her parents and they said it hadn’t occurred to them in 25 years and also no one had ever mentioned it to them.
On preview, I agree with the LW that once the name is out in the world in full force, it’s too late. But if it’s early enough in the process and you approach it without a judgmental attitude, the benefits outweigh the risks, in my opinion. Closeness of relationship doesn’t factor in for me – if they trust you enough to share the name they deserve your kind reaction, including letting them know if you notice something questionable.
Think of every obnoxious person who breaks out into song when they meet someone named Mandy or Jessie. Or the doofus who says, “Ruth? Like Babe Ruth?!?” Just embrace your inner doofus. Say it with all the innocence and ignorance you can muster. “Hank Tobber?! Sounds like Bank Robber, amirite?!?? HAHAHAHAHA.” This is best accomplished if you have food in your mouth when you say it. They’ll get the hint.
I agree with those who said you shouldn’t say anything. However, there are times to speak up. I love the name Amos and it never occurred to me that is sounded similar to another word until my hubby pointed it out. I would still have used it, if my husband had liked it, but it was definitely something to consider with that name. Also, my sister agonized about telling her BIL and SIL that the name they’d picked for their then unborn son was used mostly for girls. In the end, my sister decided that she shouldn’t say anything because she thought everyone knew that this name was mostly used for girls and she didn’t want to give offense. When little boy Harper was born, his dad was really upset that everyone assumed the baby was a girl when they saw/heard the name. They might have still chosen Harper, but it wouldn’t have been such a huge shock to them.
I think it depends. How hideous is the name, how potentially harmful to the child, and how close are you to the parents. It sounds like this letter writer has reached a decision she can live with and I’m pleased for her. :)
I live in the South, and I would use the name Jemima with no regrets. (particularly since it’s nicknames to Jemma, which makes it super wearable) So I’m not saying names with issues cannot be used, or that every name will be in everyone’s taste.
However, I know a child named Ske3t….and they call him Ske3ter, which while a super country
euphemism of a mosquito, it ALSO is urban slang for “to ejaculate”. I am positive the parents did not know this before naming him, but I think about it every time I hear his name. I knew his name in advance, but he has a normal first name and I assumed he would be called that, so I didn’t say anything, I am also not close with the parents.
The other child I know is named C0pe Hag3n P0pe. I did NOT know about this name is advance, or I would have said something. It’s a hideous name of a negative verb, that rhymes with his last name. I am also not close with these parents, and while I would have been kind about how I phrased things, I would not have been sorry to loose a friendship over that.
Ske3t is his name? Like, it’s his middle name that they use daily? Ske3t, like the target practice? All Ske3ter makes me think of is the best friend in the cartoon Doug from the 90’s. Modern day Richard? :)
One of my grandma’s nephews is nicknamed Skeet. Guy’s about 65. No idea where that came from.
But here’s the thing. You yourself would have no problem with Jemima, a name a ton of people would have an issue with. So there very well could be people you know saying, “does she not know about Jemima?” It’s a bit like Felicia, which was a fine name to call your kid except that it became a thing in the last could of years. Skeeter is a nickname I’ve heard all my life, it’s not the worst in the world. I don’t approve of that (or Boomer, Mr. Olympic Champion, really?) but it ain’t my kid.
Your other example makes me groan, but you were never going to change their minds anyway.
I’m in the “don’t say anything unless it is a sibling or close close friend” camp. My best friend or sister I would definitely say something. Sister-in-law maybe but probably to my brother. Anything else and I would stay silent. It’s not my business and if it is bad enough they will come up with a nickname and most people won’t know.
You’ve made a good decision but I’ll tell my anecdote. My real initials are R.S. After I was born my cousins pointed out to my parents the slang term ‘ratshit’. Mum was upset and wished they had used a different name (there was already tension about that). I’m happy with my name, glad they didn’t use their other choice and haven’t heard the slang in about twenty years.
I think the difficulty here is HOW you say it. Terms like appropriate, hideous, harmful or questions like “are you ok with this” are laden with judgement. Which, to me, at least, is not ok.
I think it’s ok to mention to an acquaintance IF you can say it in a non-judgmental way.