I would like to talk a little bit about two topics that come up fairly often in the comments section, and which I think are somewhat related. The first topic is whether or not any particular letter is real, and the second is the rate at which our advice is taken.
There are certain posts which can cause the reader to think, “Wait. Can this be real?” When I am going through the letters and deciding which ones to answer, this frequently catches my attention too. Sometimes it is the circumstance that seems unlikely; sometimes there is something that just seems off about the tone of whole thing. (Sometimes this tone can come from the writer trying to protect identifying details.) Other times, nothing in a letter catches my attention—but months later I will get another letter from the same email address, describing a completely different situation with different sibling names, and I will realize one or the other or both letters were fake.
You may well wonder if this bothers me, and there are times when it does: no one likes to feel foolish, and spending time sincerely answering a totally fake letter could potentially make me feel fooled, and therefore foolish. It generally doesn’t, however, and this brings me to the second topic. We’ll need to take a bit of a leap to get there, but stay with me and I will tie it all up together.
It is common for a commenter to get discouraged, when we get update after update where the letter-writer has asked for our advice and then seems to have decided not to take it. You might think this would be discouraging to me as well, and yet with very few exceptions it isn’t. This is for many reasons, from “feeling that sometimes the benefit of advice is that it reinforces the opposite opinion” to “feeling that sometimes the real benefit comes from seeing a variety of viewpoints” to “we NEVER all agree, and the letter-writer can’t take EVERYONE’S contradictory advice.” But another large part is because awhile back, when thinking about why it was that I loved writing here but didn’t like doing private consultations, I realized that although this blog APPEARS to be written for the benefit of the letter-writers, it is ACTUALLY written almost solely for the benefit of those of us who like to talk about baby names. The whole point of the blog was that I wanted to talk/think about baby names MUCH MORE than I had babies to name, so I wanted a place where I could spend time with other people who felt the same way.
I assume we DO all hope our discussions will help the letter-writers (and other parents experiencing similar problems)—but the real, true, deep-down purpose of each letter is to be a jumping-off place for OUR discussion. This is why I don’t mind taking a letter from someone who has a hypothetical question over a letter from someone in labor: because it is not really ABOUT how badly the letter-writer needs us, it is about how much we want to discuss the topic. There are days I cannot face explaining EVER AGAIN about how the #1 name of today is not of comparable popularity to the name Jennifer in the 1970s, and yet I would LOVE to talk about a dilemma I haven’t considered before, sent by someone who is not even pregnant yet.
Clearly, this is not something I want at the forefront of everyone’s mind all the time. It feels happier and more purposeful all around if the overall feeling is that the letter-writers need help, and we provide help. And yet I think it is happier and more satisfying and less discouraging in the long run to realize that is not the real story.
For one thing, it takes away the discouraged feeling when letter-writers decide against even near-unanimous advice. Even if no one EVER took our advice, WE still had the fun of discussing the topic and maybe continuing to think about it while doing boring chores, and also the fun of getting peeks into other people’s lives and situations and naming preferences/styles. (And this is why I hope letter-writers won’t feel shy about updating us, even if they decided to go a different way: I care very much about knowing the outcome, and little to nothing about whether it’s the same outcome I voted for.)
For another thing, it takes away the need to determine if a particular letter is really truly real before posting/discussing it. Not only would this be almost impossible to verify anyway, it does not matter: all WE wanted was the fun of discussing baby names, and we GOT that. If the letter-writer is someone not actually experiencing the described situation, they have gained nothing from our reply, and we have lost nothing—and we have still gained the fun of discussing the situation; and other parents in similar-but-actually-real situations have still gained the benefit of reading about it.
Truly, madly, deeply, I agree with all of this! I’m a big fan of all advice columns, especially yours and Carolyn Hax’s, and I spend a lot of time in the comments sections of both.
The column refrain among the commenters on Hax’s column is: “Questions written to advice columnists are better perceived as philosophical exercises than as actual, specific, real-life problems.” Because for one thing, the letters are often edited for space or written in such a way that they omit important details; and even if they weren’t, each can only provide one side of a problem that surely has many. And often, by the time a column appears, the problem in question has already been resolved. And of course, sometimes they’re obviously (or not-obviously) fake.
None of that matters. A letter about mother-in-law drama might be real or it might not be; the letter might provide every relevant detail or it might be heavily biased–but either way, it gives the commenters a chance to think and feel and dream about something that COULD be real.
Similarly, over here, I’ll probably never meet any of the babies whose names you help choose. But I’ve loved every minute of learning more about how other people think of the exercise of naming babies, and (in theory, someday) applying it to the naming of my own. I also love reading about why people love names I totally hate–that’s always fascinating, and it often helps me see them in a different way.
Generally speaking, I never expect anyone to take your advice or the commenters’ (and prefer to be pleasantly surprised if someone does). The only thing I hate is when a letter writes about a controversial name, one that lots of people view as racist or culturally insensitive, and then willfully uses it after the commenters point out that fact. It bothers me deeply that a person could choose a name for his/her child after being persuasively told that name was going to offend lots of people throughout the child’s life.
I think of this blog and other baby name forums more as “thinking out loud” or bouncing ideas off a sounding board, which is so helpful for achieving clarity of thought in some situations, even if your actual line of thinking doesn’t really waver. When you are the one soliciting advice, you’ve probably not yet had the opportunity to get so many diverse opinions from strangers, and your own reactions to their opinions can be very illuminating. Maybe you discover that you don’t actually care what strangers think of your name choices after all, or maybe all the negativity towards one name causes you to realize how much you like it anyway. We never get updates that say, “We chose a different name from what you all suggested and we hate it so much. We really wish we had taken your advice.” Now THAT would be discouraging!
Agree completely!
I think this is the way advice columns in general should work. Someone (god I don’t know who) wrote once that the advice seeking situation is hypothetical to EVERYONE who is not the letter writer themselves.
It doesn’t need to be real to be useful, I suppose is what I mean.
Well put! I’ve never been bothered when a writer (including myself!) didn’t take the advice offered here. I’ve always enjoyed the discussion and suggestions. Trying each one on for size is the fun!
Amen. I also think that it can be helpful to get input from different areas of the country and different age groups. I know that I am older than a lot of the posters here ( most of the folks I went to HS with now have grand kids although mine are 12 and 9) and I find I have a much different view point on names than many. I see so many letters worried about their child’s name being too popular and I don’t get it. I have one of the more popular names from the 70’s (not Jennifer but there are plenty of us out there) but it is an odd spelling. I remember being so sad growing up (really even now) that I couldn’t find any of the little personalized things with my name (spelled like I spell it) on it. Now that almost seems like a goal of some parents. But there are lots of names that nobody was using when I was dreaming of names for possible babies that I like that I see here. And of course I love all pictures of tiny babies. Keep on with the good advice.
For what it’s worth- I was one of those who wrote in over 3 years ago when naming my baby girl and I did take Swistle’s advice along with most other reader’s advice! This is one blog I check ALL THE TIME and value. Even though a writer may not take our advice- it is fun to get new naming ideas and perspectives . THANK YOU SWISTLE for the time and energy you spend on this blog- it truly is my favorite blog. I’m a devout reader and participant!
The Sylvie question was SO fun I didn’t care if it was real. I read it and the updates out loud to my mom. I do know two babies (now kindergarteners) that we helped name, and everything about this blog is delightful.
Me too!
And I think this is the best way to think about the service this blog performs. That way it is all win-win.
<3 you Swistle
This post – and the content, and the points made in the content – are why I continue to read this blog despite having no new children to name! Such fun to see what people are contemplating! Such fun to discover issues people are having! Such fun to read your response! Such fun to learn the outcome!
I submitted a hypothetical (and was SO DELIGHTED to have it posted and addressed!!!! SO FUN!!!!) and I love those posts as much as the ones that are asking for a real imminent baby.
I think what it comes down to is a combination of interest in the topic and a deeper interest in your take on things.
I think that even if a particular letter isn’t real, that doesn’t mean that the particular issue (or a similar issue) isn’t a real issue for somebody. I know people questioned if the Tale-of-3-Sylvie’s letter was real, but does it really matter? Certainly the question of cousins having the same or similar names does come up for people, so the discussion that took place because of that letter will likely help somebody along the way. And it was fun to discuss options and consider the opinions other people have about the matter.
Agree (even though I’m one of the letter writers who greatly benefited from being chosen–I took bits and pieces of the advice, and the discussion made me realize what was most important to me). Even though I don’t comment very often, I read every post and the comments for the fun, and often add to my list for future children from name combos that are suggested.
I’m considered baby name obsessed among friends (natch), and rather than using nymbler or the like, I now Google Swistle + a few of the names the couple likes. It leads to even more names plus a wonderful discussion, so I love it even more than the baby naming sites.
So your point is well taken here, love these discussions and am always fascinated where people end up, no matter where it is!
It is very easy to mistake not following advice with not listening to advice. If someone writes in that they have always loved the name Jaxon and can they still use it if the baby’s last is Jackson, they are likely to get advice that it is not the best idea. If the update comes in that Jaxon Thomas Jackson has arrived, it doesn’t necessarily mean the advice was ignored. It may mean that the writer weighed the advice against other considerations and decided that love of the name outweighed the obvious drawbacks.
Those who get frustrated when advice is not followed should not be offering advice.
My favorite aspect of participating in this blog is putting myself in the shoes of the letter writer . It is fun thinking about what would I do if. …. My two sisters and I were having babies at the same time and wanted to use the same name or I had started a pattern of vowel names with my first two or I wanted to use a family name my husband didn’t like.
Letter writers provide the jumping off point for great thought exercises. If they benefit from the advice given, it is a bonus.
When I was pregnant with my kids I would spend hours going through the comments of so many posts looking for name ideas. I never wrote to swistle but her comments and all the commenters posts were part of my name journey with all my kids. Now that I am done having children my joy of baby names is still going strong through this blog. I love reading the posts writing down ideas and thinking or names. I believe readers and posters all benefit no matter what.
My response to the posted dilemmas and their updates definitely helps clarify my thinking on naming my own children. I have been very satisfied with the updates on babies Abel and Olivia. I was so happy that the parents had chosen names that met so many of their requirements. As I contemplate names for my little boy due this summer, it helps for me to realize that meeting all my requirements (unique initial, continuing a theme, etc) does bring me a lot of joy even if they aren’t truly necessities. So though I am unlikely to write for swistle for help, the posts definitely are influencing my decision making along the way.
Hi Swistle
I had a baby boy last year and discovered your blog while debating what to name him. I was so pleased when one of your posts was about naming the younger brother of a Will (my first son’s name) and the name I was thinking about (Drew) was suggested in the comments for the sibling name. I live in South Africa and have pretty much never crossed paths with a Drew before – it’s pretty uncommon here! – but it gave me comfort when it was suggested!
So even though this is my very first comment, thank you for the blog and helping anons like me!
Agreed! I wrote in when I was pregnant with my daughter (who is now 7.5-where-does-the-time-go?) (https://www.swistle.com/babynames/2008/08/15/baby-girl-foster-2/) and though I didn’t really choose a name that was discussed, I certainly enjoyed the discussion a lot and I really appreciated everyone’s responses. Even though I don’t comment very often, I read every post and most comments and thoroughly enjoy the hypothetical-type scenarios and questions. I often add to my list of names for hypothetical future children based on the discussions here.
So I am glad to hear that you don’t get discouraged when people don’t follow your advice, Swistle. I was hesitant to write in with my update because I was worried about disappointing you. Good to know that it’s the process that’s the most fun, rather than the result and I am glad that you are still deriving enjoyment from writing it, because I am certainly doing so in reading it.
This post basically sums up why I enjoy reading your posts so much. I love reading your perspectives, and I appreciate so much that you often find a different perspective (as opposed to the knee jerk typical perspective). Thank you.
I have to admit, I’ve written from the same email address and changed the name of one of my children to protect privacy but did choose a name similar in sound and ending if my letter had been chosen. That said, my letters haven’t been chosen and maybe this is why. Who knows?! I still enjoy reading the letters that come in and the comments regardless. When it’s time for another child (we have three boys), maybe I’ll try again and maybe I’ll choose to pick a similar sounding “pen” name again for my children to protect privacy?! Or maybe that will keep the letter from being picked.
Wow, I agree with all of this. I didn’t comment on the Sylvie post, because it seemed so obviously fake to me and I felt slightly annoyed about it because apparently I’m just that pathetic! But this follow up was perfect, and I agree that this blog is really for us to talk baby names -real scenarios or not. And I can imagine myself as a 13 yr old writing something like that and loving getting a response – so good on you, Swistle. Not only did you handle the whole thing charitably, you also convinced this old Scrooge to come around to your side. :)
I wasn’t sure that the Sylvie letter was real, but it didn’t matter. I had fun considering the possibilities and then reading the updates. Thanks for this blog and thanks for all you do, Swistle!
I really thought the Sylvie letter wasn’t real but I loved it anyway!
I have thought that maybe people think my comments are made up because if you put them together they aren’t consistent. We have a rule that we don’t use our kids real names online (ever) but I do want to comment sometimes so I change the names. For example if my son’s name is Mark (it isn’t) and the poster asks about using a name more popular in the eighties I might say Matthew was fine for us, but on another post if some asked about one syllable names with one syllable surnames I would say that Tom worked fine for us… the situations are real but the names I use as examples aren’t. I try to use names that are close but not too close. It gets tricky as I have 4 kids with really different names.
I hope this is ok! Gosh – what if it isn’t? I can’t use real names as they are too googlable when put together as a group.
Swistle – am I allowed to do this on your blog? I promise everything else I say is true!
Anna from Waltzing more than matilda profiled my family for #4 and we took her advice to heart and followed it to the letter.
I wouldn’t be able to tell if people were using real names or not, so we don’t have any sort of policy about that. What I do with my own kids’ names, when I want to use one in an example but don’t want to use the real name, is to say something like, “My son’s name is a name similar in popularity [or sound, or style, or whatever the situation is] to Riley”—and then make my point from there. So for example in your case, you could say “My son has a name that was Top 10 [or Top 20, or whatever] in the 1980s and has dropped since then, but it’s working fine.” Or “My son has a one-syllable first name with our one-syllable surname, and it works fine.” Descriptions rather than decoys, I guess is the gist of what I do.
To me, it seems the height of arrogance to assume the letter writers should actually follow the advice of Internet strangers. We are a sounding board, and in the end, they should please themselves. And while I can’t imagine fighting with my sisters over a name, hey, if someone wants to spend their time writing a letter, ok, I’ll add my .02 if I have them. No skin off my nose.
I didn’t know I was a name nerd until after I started reading this blog, but I love to play with and think about names here.
To be more fair to the internet strangers, we are talking here about REQUESTED advice. I completely agree that unsolicited advice from internet strangers can be ignored (unless clearly applicable, as in “Whoops, you have a typo”), but I think it is understandable if some in our midst feel a little discouraged when our advice is solicited, and then we spend a fair amount of time and effort carefully considering the question and giving our best answer, and then it appears to have been a waste of time. My contention is that it is NOT a waste of time, for many, many reasons (including the sounding-board one)—but I don’t think arrogance is the reason some of us, over time, feel discouraged by the cumulative results. This is why I think it is better to think of the purpose of the site as “a place for us to discuss baby names,” instead of thinking of it as “giving help to people who are begging for our help.”
We end up in the same place, for sure. The thing is, since each letter writer is an individual, cumulative results are immaterial. And without specific call outs, none of us will know which comment actually swayed the LW – maybe it was the first suggestion, maybe it was the 9th person saying, no, please don’t, all I hear is blank…..
i did not mean the “arrogance” remark to offend, in any way. TBH, it never occurred to me that people would be disappointed, but people are entitled to their feelings. At any rate, I very much enjoy this blog, and the discussions, so thank you.
*Insert clapping emoji here*
I am so incredibly relieved to see this post. I just started reading your blog here (and have been devouring it – I just love it!), and have been wondering how you feel when the updates show the letter-writer went with something completely different than what was so thoughtfully advised by you and/or the readers.
It’s so amazing to find someone else who loves names as much as (if not more than!) I do, and you’re so articulate about it and I just love reading your posts.
I grew up loving names, and had notebooks filled with possible baby names. I sometimes dipped into them to name a pet or a character in a story I was writing, but I’ve always saved my favourites for my future children. In middle- and high-school I would save up and use my allowance/earned money to buy baby names books (that I would then hide from my parents as I had this ridiculous notion that they would think I was pregnant). I still spend hours every week or so researching names and making notes of my favourites (with their origins and meanings, and other variations).
My partner of ten years (we started dating in high school) had to get over his fear early on that I wanted kids young as I talked about baby names so often – luckily it’s now considered completely normal by him, and he often comes to me to help him name his video game characters. We’re now at the point in our lives where we’re not actively trying for kids, but nor would it be a complete surprise if I did become pregnant.
All of this to say that I could easily see myself writing to you for advice, as my partner and I have very different naming styles (I especially love Scottish and Irish names, such as Aoife or Caoimhe, while he doesn’t care for their spellings and prefers simple traditional English or French names, such as Emma or Sophie – which are beautiful names! Just not my preference); however I would feel such guilt if I did write to you, and you responded with such helpful thoughtfulness, only for us to go in a different direction entirely, that I might worry myself out of writing to you in the first place.
Anyway. All this to say thank you for writing this blog and being so understanding and passionate about people and names, and also I’m sorry for commenting on an old post!