Hi, Swistle! I love, love, love names and am excited to finally be able to write to you! Apologies in advance for going on at great length.
I’m Stephanie (usually Steph to people who know me well), he’s Jacob (Jake to everyone except government authorities); our last name sounds like Angle, but with an E instead of an A. We’re expecting our first child, a boy, in April. We’re lucky in that we seem to have generally similar name tastes—we like established, traditional-but-not-too-boring, old-man-but-not-TOO-old-man names. But doesn’t everyone these days? My taste leans slightly fustier than Jake’s—his initial favorites were Jack and Joseph, which are perfectly lovely, classic names but just don’t sound very fresh to me anymore.
After lots of negotiation, we’ve narrowed down our list to four first names:
August: By far J’s favorite. My least favorite (though I do like it quite a bit, or it wouldn’t be on the list at all!). J thinks he can sway me with the fact that this is a “family name” on my mother’s side—well, yes, it does appear in my family tree, but the most recent relative named August was my grandfather’s grandfather, so the association is pretty diluted by this point.
Simon: I love it, but I think I love Theodore and Wesley more, so this seems likely to get dumped.
Theodore: One of my favorites, maybe even slightly more so than Wesley. I adore either Theo or Teddy as possible nicknames (not so much Ted, but I can live with it if he chooses it himself when he’s older). One tiny issue is that my father’s beloved cat is named Teddy, but at the risk of sounding heartless—the cat is almost 13 years old, so I don’t really think it will be an issue for too much longer, you know?
Wesley: My other favorite. Extra special because it was my grandfather’s name, although that’s just sort of a nice bonus—there’s no particular reason to honor this grandfather over anyone else. Problems: J tends to pronounce it Wezley, whereas I prefer Wessley (he says he can train himself to pronounce it my way…); J can’t stop quoting “Shut up, Wesley!” from Star Trek.
For a middle name, I’d really like to use my maiden name (now my own middle name), @nderson. My parents gave me my mother’s maiden name as my birth middle name, so it feels like a meaningful continuation to me. However, J isn’t crazy about surnames as anything but surnames (I don’t care for them as first names myself). I think if I “let” him have August as the first name, he would let me use @nderson in the middle; ironically, I don’t love the combination August @nderson and would probably be more inclined to choose something else to go with August. If he “lets” me have Wesley, I’ll probably have to give up @nderson as a concession, since Wesley is already a family name for me. Other family names (from both sides) that we would consider as middle names are Miller (my mom’s maiden), Jack (J’s paternal grandfather’s middle), Joseph (J’s dad, also J’s maternal grandfather’s middle), and Eric (my dad—I don’t really care for his name, though, unfortunately). We don’t want two middle names.
Other boy names that made our original list but were rejected for various reasons (mostly because J liked them a lot less than I did!): Basil, Caleb, Calvin, Colin, Felix, Gabriel, Gideon, Henry, Hugo, Leo, Liam, Lucas, Luke, Milo, Noah, Oliver, Oscar, Owen, Philip, Sebastian. We actually LOVE the name Basil but ultimately decided against it, mostly because I really don’t like the sing-songy matching endings in Basil Angle. I also love Jacob! But neither of us wanted a Jake Junior, not to mention the fact that the extreme popularity was a concern. And I ruled out a lot of E names because I generally don’t care for the alliteration with our last name, and any name ending in s because it would honestly drive me crazy to see people constantly misusing apostrophes with it!
We’re hoping to have one more child eventually. We found out this baby’s sex quite early, so we never really even discussed girl names, but for reference, some of the girl names I love are Amelia, Cora, Eleanor, Elizabeth or Elisabeth, Jane, Julia, Margaret, Mary, Miranda, Penelope, Rose or Rosemary, Simone, Sylvia or Silvia… If I had to choose right now, I would probably push for Margaret, to recall both my mother’s name (Martha) and her mother’s (Margery). And J would probably end up conceding, since my mother passed away when I was only in my mid-20s and he knows how important honoring her is to me. (I really, really wish I liked the name Martha itself, but even my old-fashioned leanings only go so far.)
Well! That was a lot of information—I hope not too much! Just typing it all out has helped me realize that I think MY number one choice would be Theodore @nderson Angle-with-an-E. But if J doesn’t go for that, what other combinations would you or the readers suggest? Are there any concerns with any of our names or combinations thereof that I haven’t thought of? Do any other amazing names that we’ve overlooked come to mind?
Thank you so much for your time! I so appreciate your thoughts, and I promise to write with an update after he’s born!
Cheers,
Steph
I will start with this: that your email has set off in me a giant tower of flame on the topic of men who confidently use their own family surname for every single child, but act all MEH about using the wife’s family surname even as a middle name for one child. HOLY BATS. Do I understand correctly that (1) you have given up your own family surname in order to take your husband’s family surname and (2) you have further agreed that all of your equally-related-to-both-sides-of-the-family children will have HIS family’s surname? I am about ready to PASS A LAW saying that men in this situation should BEND OVER BACKWARDS to make concessions that allow the wife’s family surname (and/or other family honor names) to be used in some way. (And I hope you will all forgive the usage of words such as husband and wife and man and woman in this rant, since obviously this is an issue that can happen to any set of parents, but BOY it really feels to me as if this is a HETERO MALE HUSBAND issue more than anything else.)
I’d like to say /rant, but I’m not sure I’m done. I am not sure why this particular letter is the one that pushed me right over the edge; it’s a matter of accumulation and timing rather than specific content. I am so annoyed that anyone who gives up such a GIANT PIECE OF FAMILY IDENTITY would have to fight AT ALL to get a LITTLE BIT of it passed on to her OWN CHILDREN. Oh, your husband doesn’t LOVE the style of surname-names? SUCK IT UP, HUSBAND BUTTERCUP.
This is not “a surname name,” it’s YOUR FAMILY SURNAME. You should not have to give him his family’s surname AND his first choice of first name in order to get your family surname included anywhere at all.
Here, I have a suggestion, and this is easy since you’re on Baby #1: if he dislikes surname names SO MUCH that your family’s surname cannot be used even as a MIDDLE NAME for ONE child without bargaining and negotiation, then let’s switch over to YOUR family surname. He can take your family surname for himself too if he likes, his choice, but all the children will have YOUR family surname. There! That can be the deal: he gets his preference for no surname names in the first/middle positions, and you get your preference for your family being included in SOME TINY WAY. AAAGGHHHHHHHHH I AM SO ANNOYED RIGHT NOW
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All right. All right. I have had a cup of coffee and a raspberry danish, and I am ready to address the rest of the letter.
Let’s just start by saying I kick out of the arena his “Wah, but I don’t really like surname names” objection. Really. I don’t want to hear any more about it. I’m surprised he can make himself say the words at all. I’m surprised he isn’t the one who CAME UP WITH the idea to use your family surname. “Oh, honey, no, don’t give up your surname just to honor the patriarchy. …Oh, you think it’s the best of the bad options? Well, if you really think so. But then I think we should AT LEAST use your family name as a second middle name for all the kids—and let’s choose honor names from your side of the family. And also please allow me to express my immense gratitude at this sacrifice of
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Okay, cool washcloth applied.
From your list of four, it looks to me as if Theodore is the best choice: most loved overall, fewest issues overall. If you choose August just to get your family name as a middle name, I QUIT. I QUIT THE WHOLE NAMING BUSINESS. I QUIT ALL OF LIFE. I
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Wesley is a great choice, and if it was the top favorite for both of you, I’d say go for it. But I’m remembering when I loved the name Hope, and within thirty seconds of me mentioning it, Paul had made about eight hope-related jokes/references, and I thought “We can’t live this way.” I would want to keep Wesley on the contender list, but your husband’s surname honors your husband’s family, so I don’t think using Wesley should rule out using your surname as a middle name. In fact, I don’t really think at this point that ANYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD should rule out
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I agree with you that the cat-named-Teddy thing is just fine. We had an older cat named Oliver when I was pregnant with my youngest, and Oliver was a name high on our both-love list. We both thought that would be fine—a little funny, but that’s all. You’ll take a few pictures of “Teddy and Teddy,” and it will be adorbs. Theodore @nderson Angle. Lovely.
Another thing I like about it is that all the other names on your list go so well with it. Perhaps the name August will grow on you even more, and a second boy could be August Wesley. Teddy and Gus (*HEART EYES*).
The only only only reason I can think of for not using your family surname as this baby’s middle name is that you might prefer to save it in case the second child is a girl. It feels particularly sweet to me to pass on that tradition: you have your mother’s maiden name as your middle, and your daughter would have yours as hers. Theodore Wesley Angle and Margaret @nderson Angle.
Name update!
Hi, Swistle! I’m able to send you an update much sooner than I’d expected, because Baby Boy Angle-with-an-E decided to surprise us by arriving on March 25, a full month before he was due! We hadn’t made much more progress on his name by that point, so we took our list of four to the hospital and spent a day and a half trying to figure out who he was. But none of those four felt quite right, so we scrapped them all and started over again.
Eventually it occurred to us that March 25 is the Feast of the Annunciation, which inspired us to take another look at Gabriel–which had been on our original long list but gotten tossed for trivial reasons back when we were tossing just for the sake of narrowing down the options. And since our last name even means “angel” in German, it seemed meant to be (although hopefully subtle enough to not be obnoxiously cutesy!). So our boy is Gabriel @nderson Angle-with-an-E, and we love it. (The initials GAE did give me pause for a moment, but the name feels so perfect otherwise that we decided to not care–it’s a statement *against* homophobia, anyway, because “gay” isn’t an insult. :) )
Thanks so much again to you and the commenters for all the fun conversation!
Cheers,
Steph
Star star star!
Slow clap Swistles.
Actual LOL over here.
I bow down to your awesomeness
This was the best Swistle commentary I’ve ever read.
So, I just want to share for devils advocacy’s sake, the story of me taking my husband’s name. We got engaged, I told him that I was going to take his name. (Actually, I’d be shocked if I waited until we were engaged). It wasn’t really a discussion. I don’t know what his opinion about it would have been, because it never really mattered to me.
I tried to pull the “but they’ll have your family’s last name” as a trump card when we were naming babies, and he told me that they could have a different last name if I wanted. I really was not at all open to them having a different last name. I liked his last name. I like how it differentiated MY family from my parents’ family, I liked that it was less common than my maiden name had been, right in that “traditional but different” sweet spot. Both of our daughters still have firsts and middles that were my choices, but not having a trump card meant I had to give up some names that he genuinely disliked.
Which is all to say, although I have heard many stories of women feeling pressured to take their husbands names, one should not assume that all women who have taken their husbands names were pressured to do so. (Unless I guess you believe in the powerlessness of women in the face of centuries of cultural conditioning.) If it helps, one of my closest friends is a gay man. He also decided to take his husband’s name. His husband’s feelings about it weren’t really a central part of his decision either.
I think Wesley is great, but wonder if the Wes Anderson connection would bother you. (The Star Trek connection seems like a fun one, to me.) I kind of want to find a masculinization of Martha for you. Martin? Wesley Martin would be very handsome.
Also, since you loved Basil, I wonder if it might be worth going back to Sebastian and imagine mostly calling him Baz.
I don’t think Swistle was trying to argue that taking the husband’s last name is a trump card in naming children, or that everyone who takes their spouse’s surname upon marriage is pressured into doing so.
Rather, if that was the case and the wife or other spouse who changed their name expressed a desire to use their unmarried surname in the name of one (or more) of her children, it would make sense to give that considerably more weight than a simple like or dislike of a style.
I agree, although I think that ANY name that was especially meaningful or significant to a wife should get that kind of consideration…it doesn’t necessarily have to be her maiden name.
I think that the point that it’s “her” surname not “a” surname is a key one, and that it probably leads to an important conversation about what the middle name is really for. Are they more worried about what people who will know @nderson is a family name will think (which seems to be the wife’s priority), or what people who don’t know @nderson is a family name will think (which seems to be the husband’s priority)?
A family surname that I might have wanted to use as a middle has become very trendy recently, and since trendy is not my style, it does make me want to go looking for something that’s equally meaningful to me but not so of the moment. But then I also think that the family significance should outweigh any passing impression a stranger might have….so I have sympathy for both sides.
I mean, of course whatever names the wife feels strongly about should be given due consideration by the husband. But like…I think it’s obvious that if the name being considered is any part of the wife’s actual birth name, then it makes the consideration more important than just any old name she found and loves. Her feelings are probably a little more tender since the name represents her family versus just a name she absolutely adores.
It’s not a perfect comparison, but say the father wanted to name the kid after his mother. Whatever that name is, it would probably be given more consideration than a name he LOVES but first saw in a video game.
Agree with everything in this comment
Just something to think about. It is not her surname now. She says that she took her husband’s surname so they have the same surname. And she didn’t give up her surname, she moved it to the middle name spot and dropped her mom’s maiden name which was her middle name. So if this tradition meant so much to her why did she drop her middle name and move her maiden name to that spot? How will she feel if her child decides to do the same thing? I think the name should be considered as a possibility but I don’t think that in this case it really has extra weight.
I think there are many women who choose to take their husbands’ last names for a myriad of different reasons, but that since it is commonly done in our society (US here, at least) that when mom suggests her maiden name as the middle that the person, likely the husband, who kept his name and passed down his name, should be accommodating. I don’t think that the fact that the husband’s family name was passed down should be used as a “trump card” but unless the maiden name was truly awful, the husband should STFU.
I think I get (maybe) where Steph is coming from. I added my husband’s name to my surname and agreed our children could have his surname only. He honestly wasn’t too concerned about surnames in general, I may have been able to convince him to take my surname even, I didn’t try. Though it was a huge deal for me to change my name at all.
That being said, I did want to honour / include my family history in our children’s names but DIDN’T want to name my children after someone in either family (for multiple reasons).
I don’t know if @nderson has a specific heritage associated with it for Steph, but we decided to choose middle names for our children from the heritage on my side of the family (instead of honour names). Anyway, just an idea and one that can be used for multiple children without them all having the same middle name.
YES. ALL OF THIS. YES. The child’s surname is ALSO a name choice.
I would like to use my surname as ALL of our children’s second middles, and I don’t even particularly like it. I just want that unity among us all. Option B is the children and I all hyphenate. “We all take his name and my name vanishes” is not an option, because it makes me unhappy and I don’t want to put up with it.
August @nderson Angle is not my favorite, but to be honest that’s more because of August Angle than anything—there is nothing objectively wrong with it, it just has almost-but-not-precisely-repetitive beginnings. AW-AH-EH. I like the name August very much.
Simon @nderson Angle is quite lovely. This may be my favorite, though if it isn’t yours, let it go.
Theodore @nderson Angle is a very good name. I love the sound of it.
Wesley @nderson Angle sounds quite nice, especially because Wesley is your granddad’s name. I did think of Wes Anderson, the director, but that’s not a bad association. And middle names are rarely said aloud.
I had always intended to hyphenate my last name. But we would have been the P0ur-Fr1ends.
(This is nothing to do with hyphenating your or your children’s names! More an ALAS that we felt we really couldn’t.)
I’m mixed!! For my own personal feelings…. I just like the name August but I LOVE the name Gus. Whereas I LOVE the name Theodore but just like the name Theo. Which is why, both of these were on our short list but we ultimately went with a different name. BUT you don’t have that problem with Theodore, but you didn’t mention nicknames at all for August?? What are your thoughts on Gus?? Having a Gus would totally make having an August worth it for me.
In comment to you saying you don’t like the sound of August @nderson…
1) Are you going to really be calling him by his first and middle name that often?? Most people just have it on paper but just use the first and last name regularly.
2) Gus @nderson is pretty cool sounding if you do want to use both
If your husband isn’t crazy about using @nderson as the middle name as it’s a “surname” would you guys be open to having two middle names?? Have a standard, non-surname middle name and then using @nderson as the second middle name… Like August Jack @nderson Angle OR Theodore Jack @nderson Angle. So you could almost argue that it is kind of like having two last names but obviously just going by the one?? We gave all of our kids two middle names and it has never been a problem. We decided we cared more about honouring both sides of the family vs. flow of the names since we never really say the full names out-loud anyways. PLUS… if you really wanted to, you could do this with all future kids and use the first middle name as whatever name you choose and then keep @nderson as the second middle name for all.
PS. After I wrote out Theodore Jack @nderson Angle I FELL IN LOVE. Sigh…. seriously,, that looks so amazing and I can see it on a little boy who is spunky all the way up to someone who could be a jazz singer or a lawyer or really anything in between!! SMITTEN.
Good luck and keep us posted!!
You are the best, the most amazing, etc. This is why yours is my favorite name blog ever, and if you ever quit blogging there will be such a big hole in my life!
PREACH! (insert prayer emoji hands here)
I kept my maiden name, husband was insistent that he pass down his name (which given the fact that he changed names when he was 12 after adoption seemed fair to me). But I get middle name rights, and they’re all family names from my side, since he wasn’t a fan of my maiden name as a second middle. Also, might I note that I’m the one carrying these babies. I am. Just me, thanks. None of that “we’re pregnant” crapola around here.
(Oh hi, I’m 20 weeks along, and sciatica has kicked in, and we don’t have a name yet and I’m feeling feisty. But that’s it’s own post for another time, I think.)
Also, I’m a vote for Theodore with whatever middle name you choose, OP. (Unless the baby is born in August, in which case, I take it back.) I missed how far along you are, but if you need to maybe explain in excruciating detail alllllll the things you get to deal with as you lug around a developing human being over the next few months.
Swistle, I laughed out loud reading that more than once. When we gave the kids hyphenated last names I was thinking of it as a stop-gap, one-generation-solution to the last name problem and by the time they grew up and got married surely more equitable traditions would have evolved. But our oldest is almost 15 and it doesn’t seem to be happening…
So, anyway, I’m all for @nderson as a middle for this baby (and maybe all their babies). Theodore @nderson E. is a very nice name. And Teddy and Gus would be a nice sibling set. They could even use Augusta if the second child was a girl. That way both parents get a first-choice first name (assuming he likes Augusta).
First of all, I LOVE Swistle’s response, and had to laugh at each intermission.
Second, you have excellent taste in names, and my list overlaps so much with yours (so maybe I’m a bit biased). I have a Teddy, and I think it’s an amazing name, Teddy @nderson Angle sounds fantastic. Wesley (also on my list) is wonderful, although I probably wouldn’t use Wesley @nderson. Maybe use one of your husband’s family names if you go with Wesley, and save @nderson for a second child? I like Swistle’s suggestion of using it for a daughter.
A favorite of mine is Winston, have you considered that?
Oh how I love you, Swistle. I shall make *HEART EYES* in your direction. :)
Love Swistle response and definitely *heart eyes* for Theodore @nderson.
I had to fight my husband on this one, but I stood my ground. My name as middle name. Apparently this is quite uncommon (and even not allowed) in many European countries, so his reluctance was cultural as well as personal (“it doesn’t flow as nicely” “too bad!”). Both issues were overcome and I intend to insist on the same for future kids. But it takes some stubbornness sometimes…
FWIW, I find Theo *Angle to sound a bit too rhymey when said aloud…?? But I could be wrongn about that. Teddy is adorable and can grow with age. I wonder if you’ve considered Caleb, Wyatt, Andrew, or Everett..I know you aren’t a fan of alliteration, but Everett Angle sounds dreamy to me! Ha! Best of luck.
Ps: @nderson sounds great with pretty much any name, I think.
This makes me wish that all couples committing to marriage had to come up with a new family name to honor their commitment. In terms of ability to compromise and agree on priorities, that would separate the wheat from the chaff in no short order!
Do most men secretly wish that their first son would simply be named after them, end of discussion? Maybe so…….Unless of course, they really did not like their name, or are feminist to an unusual degree.
Back to the four names. With a two-syllable surname, it’s always a strong preference of mine for the first name to have one, three, or four syllables because I think it makes for a better rhythm. (Of course, nicknames mess with this rhythm……). But on this basis, Theodore Angle would be first on my list. Otherwise, the names seem oddly interchangeable to me–meaning, these names are unsurprising, unobjectionable, totally on trend, yet so, so much better than Banjo, or Bertie, etc. But a part of me wants to argue for Timothy, or even Ptolemy–something I don’t hear every day.
I know very few first sons named after their fathers. Like almost none.
I got the impression Gail was referring to what fathers might WANT, not to what they end up getting.
I would love to see a poll on how many people discussed this as a possibility. Maybe it’s a location/cultural thing but it’s very surprising to me.
To clarify: I was imagining a scenario where it would be the wife who enthusiastically proposed that the firstborn son be named after the husband. I started wondering how many men would work up steam over this to the point where they’d consult someone like Swistle. As in, “I can’t believe my wife wants to name the baby after me! There’s so many better names!”; or, “And it isn’t fair to her heritage”. Versus how many would simply accept it in a smug sort of way.
Of course I get this isn’t what’s generally happening–it’s a theoretical exercise that attempts to reverse our tacit assumptions.
My husband did not want to name our son after him, including as a middle name. My MIL sighed when we told her the name of our second son…”oh, I thought maybe you’d use [husband’s name] as the middle name this time…” Gag.
HER sons use my father-in-law’s first and middle names in their own names. Her daughter does NOT use HER name in any way.
So glad my husband very easily agreed with using MY family names as middles! ;)
In any case, love your response, Swistle! @nderson makes a great middle name…this coming from someone who doesn’t love surnames as names!
One of the few unprompted things my husband said about naming our son was that he did NOT want a Junior. So, for my husband at least, this was a not a secret wish.
Never came up with my husband. Out of the nine of us (my siblings), only one spouse wanted a son named after him and that, I think, was in large part because he came from an awful/horrible/no-good/very bad/beyond-broken home and so our family is . . . the only family for their children. I think he wanted something of himself as we overwhelmed him with sheer numbers and family togetherness. (My parents have 48 grandkids and counting.) My sister didn’t want a junior and so their son has dad’s first name as a middle. Yes, the son also has dad’s last name but that really wasn’t even on the radar so it didn’t enter the discussion. I gave my oldest son my husband’s first name as his middle because I adore my husband and think he’s worth being named after.
I am 100% up for this. I didn’t take his name, and when we discussed what we would do for our children we let our preferences be known. His was for his last name, and mine was for the right to choose the first and middle names absent a veto, and that any honor names I chose were veto proof. It worked because my dude recognized that last name was choice he got to make
I absolutely love Margaret @nderson Angle , and I would be very tempted to “save” @nderson for a second child, in case that second child is a girl, because it’s so great. And you could still use @nderson for a second son, if you happen to have two boys.
Have you talked to your husband about whether he’d feel differently about @nderson as a surname middle name for a girl than he would for a boy? I think that could be a very interesting conversation.
I’m so glad you answered this the way you did. I too got all steamy when I read that Buttercup Husband didn’t care for surname names. All of my kids have honor names from my side as a middle name. No argument whatsoever from my husband.
I took my husbands last name although it was hard for me. My husband lost both of his parents at a young age through separate tragic incidents and his last name is an important tie to them. I have always been a fan of a family having matching last names so I decided to take his name. I didn’t realize until later that I think the whole-family-matching-last-names-thing is a cultural thing from my part of the country (i.e. people being judged when they don’t match) had I realized this at the time I may have done some more soul searching but OH WELL.
I say all of that to say that our son has my maiden name as a second middle name and we have established that any further children we have will also have my maiden name. Not perfect, but it works for us.
I would urge you to reconsider your aversion to two middle names. I never really liked it either, but when we got down to it it was the right choice for us and I don’t regret it. Although I do get a lot of comments on what a big name he has.
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE on the response. I love you Swistle.
This letter was fantastic for me, because holy crow do our naming styles overlap, and I’ve been struggling to find names that go with my (husband’s) (very hard to work with) last name! I am totally on board with @nderson as the middle for just about ANY of these names – it goes well with virtually everything, and I plan to push for my own surname-that-others-are-using-as-a-first-name as a middle for our kid too. I also love love love Wesley – it’s my own middle name, and for me additionally brings warm fuzzy references to the Princess Bride (although that is a Westley-with-a-T technically). If you get Wesley you absolutely should not have to give up @nderson! It goes beautifully, and this kid will never get called @nderson as a standalone name, so it’s NOT a surname-as-a-name.
I love you, Swistle.
Generally I agree with all of Swistle’s comments, though part of me wants to argue for Simon Joseph, since both those names appear on your choice-of-names lists and that’s MY son’s name, and I love it. (For the record my son has my spouse’s last name as a second middle and my last name as his last name, as will any future children).
I agree that while you shouldn’t have absolute say in first and middle names, there should be a VERY good reason for your husband to object to @nderson as a middle name, no matter what the first name. I would present it to my husband as, “He will be known his whole life by the same last name you, your father, and grandfather have always had. It’s very important to me to tie my surname in there as well, even if it’s just buried in the middle rather than proclaimed to the world for all his life. And I think we should pick a first name we both are really excited about.” It’s interesting to note that his original first choices for names were the names of his father and paternal grandfather, so your son would have had the exact same first AND last name as either of them.
I think all of your choices are excellent and that style-wise, you can’t go wrong. As another option, I would love to see you use Miller to honor your mother as well as yourself and that branch of your son’s family tree. Maybe you can use Miller for this middle and @nderson for a daughter or second son.
As another push your significant surnames in the middle slot, maybe you can look up how often they are ALSO used as first names, as well as how often some of your favorite first names also happen to be surnames, just to remind your husband that things are not so black and white.
My vote is for Simon because I adore the name, with Wesley being my second choice.
I wanted to bring your attention to the famous chipmunk brothers: Simon, Alvin, Theodore. Just in case you eventually end up pregnant with a 2nd boy, you may want to avoid the “Where’s Alvin” jokesters. :)
Ps I would also like to add the although I like Simon (our Oliver would’ve been a Simon had he come on his due date) I am so in love with Simone. So I’d hold onto that one for future daughter possible, although I do like Margaret!!
We named our second son Theodore (called Theo, born last summer) and get nothing but “oh how charming” and “I LOVE his name!” Completely unprompted for him and his brother Charlie. I absolutely love it and everyone seems to as well!
I also think saving @nderson for a future child is a great idea since your husband will care less and because @nderson is SUCH a versatile surname it can pair so nicely with girl names. Just saying….
Since your original choices are so great, no one has suggested another old man but not too old man name so I’ll mention my own son’s name: Frederick. It could work for you because Freddy is the new Teddy without the cat association and it contains Eric as a nod to your dad. If you hate Fred (we went there and it has been fun), Fritz is sort of a dashing nickname in the same way that Theo is. Frederick August Angle…Freddie Angle. So great.
Swistle, you crack me up. My maiden name is a common first name for males (but age 50+), and we have discussed using it, especially in the middle name spot. We have three boys (and one girl) and have not used it yet. My husband doesn’t like it as a name, and I am fairly neutral about it. I suspect that your (Steph) husband is like mine, if you want it bad enough and verbalize that to him, he will probably fold. (Also of interest, we had decided to use that name as a middle for baby #4 and *I* changed my mind after he was born and went with the name that my husband and I both loved equally. No regrets. He is the only kid with no family names anywhere and it was so fun to pick all the names, based on nothing more than our whims!). I do love all your choices, maybe with a slight preference for Wesley and August.
Awesome response, Swistle!
Love Theodore @nderson. Wesley @nderson is also great, if you don’t mind the Wes Anderson (filmmaker) association.
I’m in the same position as the letter-writer’s husband. We are using my surname for kids (and ourselves). I very much dislike my partner’s surname, but it’ll be the middle name if she wants. Or an honor name from her side, if she prefers.
Brilliant Brilliant response Swistle!!!! Choosing to use the father’s last name is a choice, and while it is the common one in our society, it certainly isn’t currently the law. And since the letter writer made the choice to change her last name to her spouse’s and chose to use his last name for their children, then I feel like he really needs to recognize that they have chosen *his* name twice, and maybe it is time to chose hers as the hidden middle name! Grrrrrrrr. I know many women are happy to take their husband’s name, but I get very grumpy when men just sort of assume that their wives will take theirs without realizing that they are, in fact, choosing to change their legal identity and that the males in our society don’t generally wonder if they might do that.
Sorry, preaching to the choir. I’m riled up.
On to the letter writer: Would Wesley be often called Wes, and if so, would the apostrophe issue bother you there too? I think you should hold out for your maiden as middle, and like Theodore the best also.
I must say I adored Swistle’s response to this letter. Hilarious!
This is a subject near to my own heart. My unmarried partner and I have one daughter and another child on the way and our arrangement is that they can have his surname, a mutually-agreed-upon first name, and middles (I used two for my daughter and will do the same for the next child) are my choice. With my daughter I chose family names from my side for the middles.
I love Theodore @nderson Angle. Love it! I’ll also suggest adding in a second middle name if that makes everyone happier. Theodore Jack @nderson Angle. I agree with an above poster that this name is swoon-worthy!
Good luck finding a balance that works for you and your husband!
🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼 Swistle. I believe this was the gist of a recent comment I made on another post. Spot on.
Steph has wonderful taste in names in my opinion and I honestly think any of these choices are great. I’m pulling for Wesley only because I have two generations of them in my family and it hits that traditional, familiar but unexpected sweet spot. Wes is also handsome in a grown up, gritty cowboy sort of way.
I have my husband’s last name and so will our children, however I never felt pressured into it and I embraced the change. That doesn’t mean he would dismiss a request to use my family names for a child. Being “traditional” shouldn’t make a man insensitive. He also has no interest in having a junior.
We gave our oldest my husbands surname as his first and my surname as his last. It just makes people very confused. Let’s say husband’s surname is Smith. People ask me, not infrequently, if our kids name is Smith Smith, because having my surname would apparently be weirder.
I have never commented here…..gasp! But, I LOVE this blog. I happen to have a Theo Wesley. Theo (not Theodore due to my husband’s aversion to ‘long’ names…slight eyeroll) because it was basically the only intersection of our name suggestions/likes AND Wesley in honor of my father. I love the names Theodore and Wesley. And either of them paired with @nderson work and allow mama to honor her side of the family. Can’t wait to hear what baby Angle with an E is named!
Standing ovation.
Swistle, you are the best.
Best.Post.Ever. I love the idea of saving @nderson for the second child in case you have a daughter.
Are there any cultural differences between Mom and Dad that might be contributing to the disagreement re: surnames as middles or firsts? For example, where I’m from it’s VERY common for family surnames to be used for first and middles. My husband is from a different region of the US where it is not common. He probably would have balked had I suggested using my maiden name as a first or middle (it’s a terrible name to pronounce, so this never came up), but he was 100% for using other family names on my side, which we did.
Swistle, I love you!
Seriously though, @nderson isn’t even a super-surnamey name anyway. Anderson Cooper combined with first names like Anders & Andrew makes it seem just as first-namey as others on your list (FWIW, August, Theodore & Wesley also get some use as surnames-look it up).
So August @nderson is lovely & reminds me of the character Auggie Anderson from Covert Affairs (very positive name association there). But you shouldn’t have to use a name you aren’t excited about just to get to use @nderson.
Theodore @nderson is fantastic! Distinguished and fun sounding at the same time. Cat connection is not a problem.
Wesley would be off the list because of the “shut up Wesley” reference. I just don’t think I could get on board with it after that joke, for fear the husband would keep it up. Also, we’re all geeks in my family, so even if husband refrained, a Wesley in my family would eventually encounter it anyway.
I do think the Teddy/Gus sibling set is adorable, so perhaps a reason to move August to the back burner for now. & while I wish I didn’t have to say this, if you get Theodore @nderson now, you could always plan to “let” your husband have August next time. Perhaps a bit sneaky, but whatever.
i don’t have a lot of opinions on the names (i will later after i stop laughing and raging but i do want you to know that i posted this on fb with the line “i am in love with how HULK PATRIARCHY SMASH this is.”
LOVE YOU SWISTLE.
Yes! I love everything you wrote, Swistle. I still get a pang of annoyance when I think of how I took my husband’s name. I do get a full on rage stroke when I get letters to Mrs. Husband’s Name. This week I got one!!!!! I am also very partial to Theodore, since I have one :) And I’m guessing someone else mentioned it, but I knew an @nderson and never thought it was a strange first name, i thought it was lovely, in case it was an option in the back of your mind.
I’m in the minority here, but I just don’t get why people get so worked up about last names. Of course, I’m assuming that there was no coercion when determining the way children will be named… which has been my experience for myself, friends and family.
I think once you agree to have a “family” last name – however it comes about (his, hers, hyphen, new mash up), that’s it. No trumping, no bringing it up as a “you got yours” scenario later on. I find that to be very petty. So, unfortunately, some of what was written in reponse to the OP rubbed me the wrong way. I feel sorry for the father, who’s only sin seems to be not liking @nderson as a name! Though compromise is often necessary when naming babies, I strongly feel that no one should be shamed into agreeing to a name they dislike.
On the other hand, I think that if you do choose to take the name of your partner, it should not be considered unusual to desire your former name as a first or middle name. It should be thoughtfully and generously conidered. Again, in my experience, this as never been an issue for those in my circle – my husband actively suggests my maiden name or versions of it when discussing names. I’ve totally resisted because I don’t want a goddess name for our kids.
Anyway, just wanted to give a different perspective. Jake, if you’re reading this, I don’t think you’re a caveman. :) From the comments above, I suspect my experience is the minority, and I hope no one yells at me over the internet! lol
Couldn’t agree more about the last name situation! If a family decides to all use the husband’s last name, in my opinion that does not give either parent more or less of a say in the first and middle names. The last name has become the family’s shared name. The family’s last name does not reflect the personal naming style of either parent so both should still have an equal voice in choosing given names! Anything else feels petty to me too.
Frankly, I advocate that ALL women and their children take on their mother’s maiden name.
Almost HALF of all marriages end in divorce. Of those that don’t, what percentage of those still marriages are happy ones? Not all of them, that’s for sure.
So for this reason, even if I was still goo goo happy within my marriage while being With Child, I’d totally stick with my maiden name for me and the kid(s).
That doesn’t make me A Downer or a Raging Feminist. It makes me A Realist.
Especially if I only had one or two with Mr Husband slash Partner and was still young enough to consider more with Mr Second (Third, Fourth etc Or partners or whoever you’e doing or have one the Lovely Jubblies with. I mean, just once can end up in more kids, you know? So why not PLAN for contraception failure and/or divorce and just COMMIT to having a homogenous name set for you and each one of your offspring? They’re statistically more likely to live primarily with you after the probable divorce slash separation anyway, so why do we statistically more often set ourselves up for “My eldest’s surname is Xxxxx, the next’s is Yyyy, and the little one’s is Zzzz, and mine is Jjjjj.” All of which is even more galling if the separation slash divorce sucked Big Resentful Ones, which they so often do) Husband.
My son took on my surname for none of those reasons though. My son has my surname because it is SO MUCH more awesome than his father’s. Seriously, five year old aibee, the future anti-feminist in a “Feminism? What’s that? And wth are you on about when you say “equal rights”? era was all “I’m never giving up my surname when I get married. NEVER EVER EVER. *footstomp*”
Now. As for naming for this little one. I putting my vote in for August.
August @nderson Angle with an E.
Alliteration City but oh my lands. SO AWESOME.
If my maiden name was Anderson, that would be my son’s FIRST NAME, full stop. It’s a great name, don’t let it languish in the middle spot. Then let Buttercup pick the middle.
Oh Swistle. How I adore you!
Poor Jake–the guy didn’t actually do anything wrong. Plus, the logic of this is a little skewed. If we convert to a society where any last name can be chosen (and I’m not against that in any way–it would just be another way to do things), then the last name can never be considered a permanent by anyone, so saying that a husband gets the last name doesn’t really fly. Already a girl usually only has the father’s last name until marriage, or uses her father’s last name until marriage. The names that are used longest are the first name and chosen-at-marriage last name. Therefore, if the husband wants an honor name–especially for a daughter–it is exceedingly unwise to count the last name as that honor name.
Since people are having fewer and fewer children, it seems to me that the best possible solution for people who like honor names is having the first and middle be honor names–one from each side of the family. Or, having two middle honor names with a mutually liked first name.
I don’t consider the name I was given at birth my “father’s name” – i consider it *mine*. Just wanted to call that out. The implication that women never have a last name of their own, only their father’s or husband’s, is offensive to me. My name, given to me at birth, is mine.
I agree, Liz. I was given a name at birth and it will be MY name until I die.
I just want to point out – not to disagree, just to highlight for discussion – that you are arguing a surname at birth is yours, NOT your father’s when it seems like the post is saying a husband’s surname when given to children at birth IS the father’s, and that’s a reason the father should concede on other names. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding, it just seems like we are arguing both sides.
I believe in one case we are discussing the fairness of the giving of the birth name when it is being decided: if one parent should have more influence, or if equality should be sought; if the father’s line is more important than the mother’s, or if they are equally important—those sorts of issues. And in the other case we are discussing what is true about the birth name once it is given: how that name is linked to our own identity; what it means to give that name up and take someone else’s; what it means to keep that name; what it means to pass names on to our children—or to not be able to pass names on to our children.
Not only are the two issues not on opposing sides, they are entirely linked—and in fact the latter is why the former is so important: our given names start as the name of one side of the family, or the other side of the family, or neither side of the family, or both sides of the family, or WHATEVER—but after that, they are just OUR NAMES. That is, to the parents, it’s one name versus the other name, but to the child (who then later becomes a parent and repeats the process) it’s MY OWN NAME. And it’s why the patriarchal naming system can be such a problem: if those names come consistently and/or “naturally” and/or by default from the father’s side of the family, it says something very subtle/insidious and yet very very clear about which side of the family is more important. This is further highlighted if the father’s surname is considered a given when naming the children, but the mother’s surname is considered an issue of personal taste.
“This is further highlighted if the father’s surname is considered a given when naming the children, but the mother’s surname is considered an issue of personal taste.”
YES
Thank you, that was much more eloquent than I would have been.
My husband and I are not expecting but we have an ongoing discussion about surnames; will we use mine, his, a portmanteau, a hyphenate, two names, etc.? We don’t know where will we end up but it was very eye-opening for my husband to realize that every argument he made in favor of using his name I could use in favor of using mine. Except for tradition, which is not strong enough an argument for me to simply drop my name from contention.
I understand why people dislike the patriarchial naming system, really, I do. However, historically, it was not necessarily to reflect *ownership* by the man, nor superiority of his lineag. Not recognizing the benefits to the child of patriarchial surnaming practices, the importance of which influenced the continuation of the tradition for centuries, is counterproductive.
When considering historical societal structure, using the male surname was the only way for the father to be identified and publically acknowledged as the father of the child and provider to the family. This imbued protection to the child and mother, especially when mothers were dependent on men. This is why bastard children were so vulnerable, and fought so hard to be legally recognized by their fathers. Especially when dad was the King (!), or what not.
Now days this protection is not always economically, legally, nor scientifically (DNA tests for contested paternity) necessary, and so different practices are becoming more common.
It’s funny how you can have a strong opinion about something, but be respond reasonably again and again, until boom! One day it just hits you wrong, and you can’t stop steaming about it. This post made me smile all the way through.
I really hope we hear back from the OP, because I am thinking of the myriad times I have taken my husband’s initial response as dogma, only to find out down the road that his opinion was nowhere near that strong. I was making a decision when he was making conversation. Given that a lot of husbands can’t really wrap their minds around the naming thing, I wonder if that was what happened. Which is not to negate Swistle’s reaction, which is also fair.
Personally, out of the three surnames I’ve carried ( my father’s, my stepfather’s, and my current,) my husband’s was the one I actively chose, so I dislike the suggestion that it was less than feminist of me to do so. OTOH, my husband’s family was dysfunctional, and my children’s names both honor my family.
Love the rant swistle, and that you gave yourself intermissions – slow clapping over here!
If J really can’t get past the surname thing, you could use Ander or Anders instead?
I doubt most kids would care what their middle name is. For most situations, she’d be Eloise LastName or Eloise R. LastName. I do agree that Ryan works better as a girl name than something like Robert. It has some use as a girl’s name and as a middle name for a girl, I suspect it’d strike some people as being a family surname middle.
I think the bigger issue is that Ryan for a girl isn’t really your style, and that’s OK. Have you & your husband talked about a feminine variant instead of Ryan? Namesakes don’t mean you have to always use exactly the same name. I suspect most men named Charles would be OK with a namesake of Charlotte, so perhaps your husband would be OK with something like Rylie or Rhiannon for a daughter? Or what about his middle name? Perhaps is has a standard feminine variant that you could use? Since the other 2 children have family names from your family (but not from your specifically), you could also explore family names from his family. So perhaps you’d decide to do Henry Ryan for a boy and for a girl you’d end up using the name of your husband’s mother or grandmother.
I’m late to the game but had to chime in because I’m pretty sure OP and I are naming twins. My son is J@ck J0seph. Other names we considered were Anderson, August and Wesley. My first girl choice is Amelia. We argued over using my mom’s maiden name as a middle name (P@tton). like seriously– get out of my head, OP! :)
Some other boys names we considered, in case it helps: Chase, Carter, Parker, Charlie, Henry, Logan, Holden.
Good luck!
Swistle for president.
Original Steph here—I feel so cool and famous because Swistle picked my letter to post! :) THANK YOU so much for the (hilarious) response, and for all the great comments. And special thanks to those who stood up for Jake, since I seem to have unintentionally misrepresented the poor man…I promise he is not a Neanderthal! It was completely my decision to take his last name when we married, with no pressure from him, and I love that he and I and our child(ren) will all share that name. And as Kim mentioned, it’s completely possible that I’m overthinking what to him was not actually a strong opinion, but, say, just a brief passing wish that we could choose another first name as the middle rather than filling that slot with a surname (something I’ve actually thought myself—as much as I do want to use my maiden, it’s definitely not as much fun as getting to pick out another first name!).
Anyway, I really appreciate all the responses! The Wes Anderson connection doesn’t really bother me (I think?); the Chipmunk connection did occur to us, so using Theodore this time would definitely rule out Simon for a future brother. :) I DO love Gus as a nickname for August, which I forgot to mention, although phancy brings up a good point that the apostrophe issue for Wes/Gus might also annoy me—ARGH, that hadn’t occurred to me. Lots to mull over, but I promise to send in an update once Baby Angle is here!
YES, SWISTLE. YES.
Big congratulations, Steph. What a gorgeous choice, full of meaning and heritage from both parents.
What a lovely name! And a lovely patron saint.
Congrats! I hope the well-named baby Gabriel is growing well.
This was a VERY satisfying update.