Hi Swistle
I love your blog!
We are expecting our first baby in February and it would be great if you could help us. We had a boy’s name picked out all along, but of course it’s a little girl. We are both from Germany but live in Australia. I’m Franziska but mostly go by Franzi, my husband’s name is André and our last name is Schemmel.
For a boy we had Charles (Charlie) Eric Arthur. Charlie because we love the name, Eric after my late brother in law and Arthur after my great-grandpa. It could have been so easy. For girls we have almost nothing.When we talked about names years ago we decided on Catherine (Katie) if we would ever have a little girl, but now that I’m actually pregnant it just doesn’t feel right. I never thought it would be that hard to pick a name and all the pregnancy hormones aren’t helping either.
André is dead set on Katie and doesn’t like anything else. It’s a nightmare.
Names I suggested but he vetoed are: Elizabeth, Amelia, Madeline, Savannah, Felicity, Alice, Josephine and Emily. I would love a little Lizzy or Annie or Fle, but no. It’s not that I don’t like Katie, she just doesn’t feel like a Katie or Catherine. But then I also thought she is a boy, so what do I know? J
Should we just go with Katie and be done with it? It’s not bad, he likes it and there is no other name that I really love as much as he loves Katie.
My second problem are middle names. Fortunately he is happy with whatever I pick. I’ve always loved Isla. That’s the only other name he would consider as a first name, but I’m quite hesitant as no one in Germany can pronounce it right, it’s so short and there are no cute nicknames. My grandma’s name is Gisela and I really want to honour her, but she doesn’t really like her name. I don’t like Giselle, so that’s out. One time I looked at her name and realised Isla is in there. If you cross out the G and E you have Isla! Is it too farfetched? Would it still honour my grandma?
For the second middle name I like Charlotte as it’s my other grandma’s middle name. I don’t want to use it as a first name, as we still want to use Charles if we have a boy in the future, but I love it as a middle name. Do Isla and Charlotte go together? Does it really matter if I love the names?
It would be amazing if you could help us!!!Thank you so much
Franzi
The first thing that needs to happen, it seems to me, is that your husband needs to release his death grip on the name Katie. The baby may or may not end up being named/nicknamed Katie, but insisting that it’s the only name he likes isn’t helping with the process—especially if his filter for all other names is “Do I like this name better than I like my top favorite name?,” resulting in automatic vetoes for all non-Katie names. In short: no, I don’t think you should name the baby a name you think of as “not bad” and don’t feel is right, just because your husband is being so insistent, especially when there is still quite a bit of time left in the pregnancy to think about names. I do think you should keep it in mind as an option, as you’re clearly already doing.
I’d suggest seeing if you can hit his reset button with an exercise we’ll call “Yes, But If She COULDN’T Be Named Katie.” Say to him that you realize it’s his favorite name, and that you’re not ruling it out at this point (this phrasing would, I hope, remind him that you certainly MAY rule it out), but that it doesn’t feel right to you, and that you’d like to use the next few months to explore other options to see if there’s something you both love. Ask him to pretend that the name Katie could not be used for some reason. Perhaps it would help him to pretend the two of you already had a daughter named Katie, and now you were naming a second daughter. Start again with the lists of names you like, and/or have him come up with new names he likes, WITHOUT the complication of comparing every name to the name Katie.
Since you’re planning more children, another possibility is that this baby is not Katie, but the next baby would be. That is, perhaps the reason it feels wrong to you is that THIS baby is Elizabeth/Lizzy, and the NEXT baby is Catherine/Katie.
If all of this fails and he remains stubborn about using Katie, I think one strong possibility for compromise is the double first name. For example, naming her Anna Katherine, and he can call her Katie and you can call her Annie. Or Eliza Kate, or Emily Kate, or any other combination that sounds good to you both and gives you both the nicknames that feel right to you. I don’t see any problem with parents calling a child by different nicknames; I think the most likely is that the child will choose a favorite as she gets older, or that one nickname will naturally take the lead as the one that fits her better.
Another possibility is making a deal: he gets to name this baby Catherine/Katie, but this means you get the final say on the next daughter’s name. This involves a bit of a gamble, but it may come to the point where the baby is about to be born and it is time to cut losses and maximize gains.
To me, Isla is not a honor name for Gisela, any more than Anika would be an honor name for Franziska. But different families have very different feelings about honor names, and so your grandmother may very well be honored by it—and you may be thinking, “But…I WOULD be honored by an Anika!” It sounds as if your grandmother is still among us; could you ask her what names would make her feel honored? It would spoil the surprise, but may be worth it. If you and she both consider it an honor name, then it works as an honor name.
I think that in most cases, a person who doesn’t really like her own name would nevertheless feel the full impact of the honor if the name were to be used as a baby’s middle name. I think it is unlikely that your grandmother would think, “Oh! Too bad I don’t really like my name.” Many people feel only neutral at best about their own names, and yet would still love to be honored in that way.
I do think Isla Charlotte is a nice combination, whether it’s first/middle or middle/middle. I’m more hesitant about the combination Isla Schemmel if Isla were to be the first name, but I think it works well enough; Charlotte Schemmel is a lot of SH and L, but it’s rare for the middle name and surname to be said together.
Name update:
Hi Swistle
Thank you so much for your help! After reading your post and all the responses I talked to my husband and we set the name Catherine/Katie aside for the time being. I didn’t think it would be that easy but how can you argue with an name expert? ;) It was so much fun looking for new names together. In the end we decided on Amara Isla (I know you said it’s not really an honor name for Gisela but I told my grandma about it and she loved the idea).
Her name was perfect and I loved everything about it until I held her in my arms. At first I didn’t even want to write you because I felt so silly but when I saw her for the first time I knew she is a little Katie. Catherine Isla Schemmel was born February 18th and we love her to pieces ;)Thank you so much for all your help!
Cheers, Franzi
I like the double name idea, like Swistle’s suggestion of Anna Katherine. In my version you’d both call her by both names (Annie Kate) most of the time, maybe even hyphenate it. Here are some similar ideas, using a few of your favorites, with nicknames…
Amelia Catherine (Mia Kate or Millie Kate)
Catherine Elizabeth (Katie Beth)
Catherine Josephine (Katie Jo)
Elizabeth Catherine (Lizzie Kate)
Emily Catherine (Emmie Kate)
Madeline Catherine (Maddie Kate)
Here are some more options…
Ava Catherine (Ava Kate)
Catherine Anne (Katie Anne)
Catherine Grace (Katie Grace)
Catherine Louise (Katie Lou)
Catherine Ruth (Katie Ruth)
Catherine Susannah (Katie Sue)
Isabel Catherine (Bella Kate, Isa kate, Izzy Kate)
Laura Catherine (Laura Kate)
Lucy Catherine (Lucy Kate)
Willhelmina Catherine (Mina Kate or Willa Kate)
I think Charlotte would work as a second middle with a lot of these.
I love Gisela! What a cool name.
Hallo Franzi,
I have been in a similar situation to you – our first baby was a girl when we were hoping for a boy, simply because we had our boy name all set, but couldn’t imagine having a daughter so we had several girl names at the ready. Our second child, we found out the gender in advance. It was a girl so alas, we still couldn’t use our boy name, and again we struggled to settle on a girl name since we couldn’t imagine a second daughter! After both girls were born, our tentative names came alive and were easy to decide.
What I’m getting at is that perhaps Katie will sit with you better once you meet your daughter after birth? Don’t rule it out!
Ich wünsche Ihnen viel Glück zum Baby! (ich lerne Deutsch!)
Ps we haven’t ruled out a 3rd child, but we’ve gone off our original boy name!
Normally I totally agree with everything Swistle has to say, but in this case I have a slightly different take on one very small element of Swistle’s response, so I’m chiming in! Swistle has a slight hesitation about Isla as a first name paired with your surname, but my opinion is that it sounds fantastic. To my ear, there really aren’t any repeating sounds, (except the “L” I guess), since the “S” is silent in pronunciation (are there multiple ways to pronounce Isla that I’m unaware of?). Anyway, my humble opinion is that Isla is very cute with your surname, and could be used as a middle or a first name. I’m sort of surprised at my reaction, too, because I’ve never really considered Isla to be all that great of a name, but something about it paired with the other names in your family, with your surname, and with the other names that you’ve identified as possible combinations, is very attractive to me!
Yes, the S is silent. For me it’s that the transition sounds mushy in my mouth: Isla Schemmel turns to something like Eye-lush Schemmel. It’s as if there aren’t enough hard consonants to go around, and my mouth has trouble managing it. But it doesn’t seem like a big problem, just something I’m not sure about.
I agree with Swistle that your husband needs to give up on Katie, at least for the time being. I might try a more direct route by simply stating that Catherine/Katie is off the table. If he can veto your names, you can veto his. However, the communication style that works in my marriage may not work in yours. You’ll have to figure out the best way to get the message across.
Another alternative might be to see if your husband would consider a Catherine/Katie variant. Perhaps something like Katrina, Caitlin, Carina or Katya would feel more right to you, while still being close enough to Katie for him.
I like Isla & Charlotte together. I don’t think using Charlotte as a middle would have to rule out Charles as a first. I know you said you don’t want Charlotte as a first because it would rule out Charlie later, but what happens if you never have a boy? You may want to consider how you’d feel to have to completely give up Charlie (and Charlotte could still be called Charlie). I think something like Charlotte Erica Arden would be a lovely tribute to an Eric & Arthur.
For a namesake for Gisela, something like Ella or Gia would make a more direct namesake than Isla. Ella could also be a nickname for something like Eleanor, Elizabeth, Estella, etc.
For different names that could yield a “Katie” nickname and that can be pronounced in German, how about:
Katrin or Katrina
Ekaterina
Candace
That being said, it is completely reasonable to veto Katie completely and start afresh together.
What about:
Annika
Anna-Marie
Mara
Etta
Lisbette
Eliza
Eleanor
Georgette
Jana
Emmeline
Fiona
Thea
Rosemary
Do you like Katerina? We know a little Katerina and it is very sweet on her. Gives you all the Kate/Katie nn options and would, I think, work well for your European relatives. The hard K, T and R work nicely with your softer last name.
I recognize that you’ve probably already thought of this, Franzi, but I’m going to to suggest it anyway. Would you consider using Gisela if your baby was exclusively called something else (except Isla)? Such as Ela or Sela? I feel they’re similar to Isla without the pronunciation difficulty, and her formal name would give a direct honor to your grandmother.
However, it still doesn’t solve your husband’s problem. Maybe you could choose Gisela and he could choose the nickname?
Good luck. Your taste in general is fantastic, so I know she will have a lovely name in the end!
Mmmmm….this is a difficult one.
I think your Husband needs to come to terms with the fact that Katherine/Katie may be vetoed as you are not 100% on board with it, this isn’t to say that you won’t be in the future, but right now it doesn’t feel right and it isn’t fair of him to remain so unmoving.
Katerina/Caterina is a good alternative but, if it’s the nickname Katie you have doubts about, isn’t really going to solve this issue.
Is sounds like you both like cute nicknames so maybe you could start there to work out a list of alternative names. Annie or Lizzie can be nicknames for Anneliese or Eliza. Ellie could also be a nickname for Eliza/Elizabeth.
You also mention that Isla is difficult to pronounce in Germany. What about Ada as an alternative?
Adaline/Adeline, or even Adelaide, as a first name with the nickname Addie would also be cute! Matilda with the nickname Mattie? Louisa nicknamed Louie! You could also honour your Husband with the names Andrea, Miranda or Amanda with the nickname Andie.
As for Gisela, which is great name by the way, I think your Grandmother would probably be thrilled if you used her name as one of the middles. Don’t we all love to be honoured?! Ha! You could use the name Ella with the nickname Ellie as an alternative.
Don’t get too stressed it’ll all work out in the end, it always does once that beautiful baby is in your arms.
Good luck!
What about a bit of a mishmash? I was thinking Kylie (KYE-lee) or Kyla. Have the sounds of Isla and Katie together. But I agree about your husband. He doesn’t have exclusive veto-ing power. If he can veto, so can you, and it sounds like (for now) you’ve vetoed Katie, which should be the end of the discussion. Good luck though. My husband was an extreme vetoer too. Eventually we found ‘the one’.
Katya Gisela Charlotte. *katie
I like Gisela. It’s unique and funky and it’s a namesake which is great. I love names that connect children to their history.
I like the idea of you finding a name you like that the nickname can be Katie. It’s a good compromise. I also like the suggestion of Katerina.
Congratulations on your darling baby girl with her beautiful name Catherine Isla “Katie”! It sounds like setting the name aside for a bit while looking for other names helped you realize that while you *could* choose another name, this baby really was meant to be Catherine “Katie”. And it’s so nice that your grandmother accepted Isla as a name within her name and thus a name honoring her. Perfect!
What a cute baby!
I wanted to chime in to say how much I love Isla as an honor name for Gisela, especially for honoring a living relative. Indirect honor names are wonderful.