Dear Swistle,
I have been reading your blog for several years now and have been dreaming about the day when I could ask you for your advice about my own baby naming issue. I am not actually pregnant yet, but my husband and I are going to start trying to get pregnant in the next year, so I thought I could finally send in my question.
Happily enough we are set to go on a boy’s name. He will be Dev Avigdor. I know that’s a mouthful, and may be a cross cultural explosion, but it is bound to happen because my husband is from Nepal and my family is Jewish. Dev is an Indian/Nepali name that bears a strong similarity to a lot of Hebrew names for boys. We both love it. Avigdor is the Hebrew version of Victor, which is my father’s name. Jews don’t normally name their babies after living relatives but I feel strongly about honoring my father and I wanted to buck that particular tradition.
Anyway, I digress. The issue is with a name for a girl. I have loved one girl’s name for as long as I can remember. I think it all started when I read the book Great Expectations as a child, and just fell in love with the name Estella. My family is very into books and theater, especially British literature and theater, so I was raised with the heroines of Austen, the Brontes, and Shakespeare in my head. Needless to say the names I am most attracted to for girls are very feminine, romantic, and a little mysterious. Estella fit that perfectly because she was a stunningly beautiful woman in the book and slightly mysterious and untouchable. Also completely randomly, I have had a serious obsession with stars for my whole life. I’m sure it’s a pretty common affinity, but I have spent countless hours as a child and an adult staring up at the night sky in utter amazement. That the name Estella had the star connotation too was just icing on the cake. I have always planned on naming a baby girl Estella and hadn’t even considered other names. It also fits my popularity criteria, which is that I want a name that people have heard of and is easy to spell, but is also as far down as possible on the top 1000. I NEVER want a child to have to go by their first name and last initial in a classroom.
I brought up Estella as soon as my husband and I starting talking about names………and he doesn’t like it. He doesn’t hate it, but he says it reminds him of beer because his favorite beer is Stella Artois. I gradually started looking around and thinking of other possible girl names. I actually read on your blog about a woman considering the name Marina for her daughter and was very drawn to it. I like the water theme, I like the sound, and it seems to meet my popularity requirement as well. I mentioned it to my husband and he was completely on board. So we settled on it. I think it’s a lovely name, and I really have tried to get behind it 100%, but the truth is that every time I think about it, and do all the tests you suggest (imagine calling the doctor to make an appointment for her, or talking to her teachers about her, or even introducing her to friends) I keep thinking, but it’s not Estella. I don’t know how to let go. I am worried I will never have the same pride in saying Marina as I do when I think about the name Estella. I don’t want to regret such an important decision but I also don’t think I can force my husband into a name he doesn’t like.
Any suggestions from you or your readers on how to let this name go and be happy with our new choice would be endlessly appreciated. In case it’s helpful, our last name is pronounced Tah-pa, just like the Spanish appetizer “tapa.”
Thank you so much for the help!
My first suggestion is to not give up yet. During my first pregnancy, Paul completely rejected a boy name I liked. During my second pregnancy, I put that name back on my boy name list—and when I showed Paul the list, he chose that name as his top favorite, and we used it. (I did not mention to him that he’d rejected it before.) Since you are not pregnant yet, and when/if you do get pregnant might not have a girl, it is not yet time to grieve over the name. If I were you, I would just keep that name in the air around your husband: don’t push it or he might set his mind more determinedly against it, but continue to keep it on your list and let his ear get used to the sound of it. (And maybe get him some new beers to try.)
It’s common for someone to reject a name initially and then have it grow on them. We’ve even had letters where the writer says her favorite name can’t be used because her husband hates it (HATES it), and then when we get the follow-up, they’ve used that name because he decided he loved it after all. Perhaps you will have your first child in two years, and it will be a boy, and then it will be another three years before you have a daughter, and then your husband will still reject your favorite name, and then three years after THAT you will have a SECOND daughter and by then he will have come around to it.
So there is hope. But let’s deal with the situation where there isn’t: where it turns out that your husband never agrees to use the name as the first name for a daughter.
My first suggestion is to push for it as a middle name. It can be tremendously comforting to get to use the name SOMEWHERE, even if it can’t be as the first name. Middle names can be as active as you want them to be: you can call her Marina Estella or even use Estella as a nickname; you can decorate her room in a sea-and-stars theme; all the meaning you attribute to the name can still be right there as part of her name. It may not be as good as having it as the first name, but it will be better than not having it at all. Perhaps it will happen that your husband’s first choice is your second choice, and you will be able to use it as a bargaining chip: “Well…all right. How about if we use your first choice as the first name, and my first choice as the middle name?”
My second suggestion is to see if you can find another name that you love in the same way you love the name Estella, but a name that your husband likes also. Celeste, for example. It sounds much less like his beer, but still has the celestial meaning. It loses the image of the Estella in the book, but stunning beauty and seductive untouchability may not be an expectation you want to set for your daughter anyway.
My third suggestion, if the first and second suggestions don’t work out, is to feel the comforting cloud of our full empathy. Everyone interested in baby names has a list of names they can’t use, either because the name doesn’t work with the surname, or because the baby’s other parent says NO WAY, or because coincidentally it’s the name of their husband’s ex-wife, or because they run out of children before they run out of names, or because they have all girls or all boys and never get to use their top choice for the other sex. It won’t fix the problem to know your misery has company, but it might be soothing.
It might also be soothing to hear other people’s experience of names clicking into place once the actual child is here. I can’t guarantee it, of course, but my strong prediction is that if you have a daughter and name her Marina (or whatever name you decide on between now and then), you will not permanently think “But it’s not Estella” every time you say her name. Soon, in fact, you might find it hard to believe that you considered any name other than Marina, even if you continue to love the name Estella. “Ah!,” you might think, “It’s not Estella because THIS IS NOT ESTELLA. This is Marina! Maybe Estella will come later, or maybe not, but this right here is MARINA.”
I second the motion of not letting go yet. I had a similar situation Swistle mentioned. Thirty four years ago, pregnant with child #1, I proposed the name Bethany for a girl. Bethany was more unusual that many years ago and he promptly said “I don’t like it.” We had a boy anyway. Move ahead 3 years and to the second pregnancy. In the meanwhile, hubby had met a “Bethany”. She was a cute 8 year old and he became on board with the name. We did have a girl that time and named her Bethany. So, don’t give up hope at this point. There’s still lots of time.
Don’t let Estella go! I’d drop the discussion for now, and revisit when you’re pregnant (especially if you find out you’re having a girl). In my case, my husband rejected a girl name I really loved early on because he thought people would associate it with a popular TV show that by then had ended. I’m skipping over a long unnecessary backstory, but a fair amount of time passed, and when I got pregnant of course we started discussing names again. This time, I brought up the name again and he agreed almost immediately to it. This was before we knew we were having a girl, but when we found out, it seemed all the more perfect with the name I had suggested. He just didn’t have the same concern he’d had before. And now our daughter has the name I always wanted, and it’s perfect for her.
One thing that helped seal the deal was that we knew we were using his mother’s name for the middle name, so it was sort of like we each “got” something by using the first name I loved and the middle name he wanted. So if there is a way to make it feel like a happy compromise, maybe you can work that out when the time comes.
For what it’s worth, I know several little girls named Stella and I happen to also enjoy the beer Stella Artois, but I’ve never associated the girls’ names with the beer. The mind has a way of making these clear distinctions, and Estella wouldn’t even bring the brand to mind at all.
Oh man, do I empathize. I’m in the same boat, only with boy’s names. We more or less agree on a preferred style for girl’s name, but for boy’s we have different favorites that the other is just “meh” about. The one thing I would recommend *not* doing is letting your husband think you’re 100% on board with Marina. Now’s the time to enforce flexibility, before there’s an actual baby to name. Make sure he knows that it just doesn’t feel right to you, but that you’re willing to short-list it. If he thinks both of you are in agreement and gets attached to the idea of a daughter named Marina, you suggesting that actually you’re not in love with the idea might confuse him. If you keep Estella and Marina on the table for revisiting later, you may find his (or your) opinions change. Best of luck!
Ha! “I did not mention to him that he’d rejected it.” Yes! Use forgetfulness in your favor!
Totally agree with Swistle’s point-by-point plan. Naming and names are sometimes more fluid than we realize. Hypothetical to positive pee stick to ultrasound to first kicks to annoyingly big kicks to seeing your child’s face: lots of big shifts! Including name choices! Happy trying to have a baby! Such an exciting time.
I think it’s very common to have a name that you’ve loved your whole life that does not end up being the name of one of your children. At least, I grew up with my mom telling me about how she’d always loved the name Julie and planned to name her daughter Julie and then I was born and I was…Kerry.
I actually kind of wonder if its kind of an issue of NOT giving up your favorite name. When you name a child, first you have to share your favorite name with your spouse and then you hand the name over completely to your child who will have her own opinions about it. If your daughter is Marina, Estella can continue to be your favorite name. It can be the name you give to little girls when you make up stories to tell her, the name you pick when you play dolls, etc. (There are also advantages if you eventually have two daughters, at least one of which will have to not be named Estella). It’ll be a name she associates with Mommy, not the one she’s trying to make her own.
None of this is to try to talk you out of using Estella. Its a beautiful name and if you can get your husband on board, go for it. But I do think its ok if you don’t use it and just continue to love it.
I just want to reassure you that having an actual CHILD with your not-first-pick name makes a world of difference.
My son is Gabriel, which was very much a compromise name. It was on neither of our lists, and we came to it just maybe a month before he was born. Now I can’t even take seriously the top choice names that I had for him, even though I was SO SAD that they had been rejected.
Also, I feel your pain. My top girl names have all been rejected by my husband and I just get SAD about not getting to use them. But realistically I’m not going to have enough children to use them ALL anyways, so there will always be some names about which I feel wistful.
If you wanted to just let it sit for awhile though. I had through my pregnancies a girls name that I never got to use (only boys) and a boys name going in that became impossible once I had chosen my husband because they would be weird in the same family. So if you never get to use it, write a story one day with a heroine Estella.
You could also look at some celestial names in Nepali.
Star in Nepali is Tara. This is actually a really fortunate coincidence- since tara sounds like an english language name.
You could also consider moon- Chandra
OR Akashi (sky- girls name)
Ooof, yeah, same boat. My partner and I are planning to start a family in the next year and I’m Canadian and have had many favourite names FOREVER. But he’s Dutch with a very weird-to-the-Canadian-ear surname and we really need a name that doesn’t clash with the surname and that can be easily spoken in both Dutch and English. This eliminated any names with J, G, ch, th sounds or spellings in them. And I had to give up my favourite name of Chailyn because of the CH and also because my guy just straight up hates it.
I did find I was able to open my mind to other names in a way I couldn’t previously, once I knew Chailyn was off the table. And now, if he all of a sudden decided Chailyn was the perfect name, I don’t think I’d even choose it anymore because I’ve found new favourites that I prefer. So for me, I decided to table Chailyn as a name that was still my favourite, but since I couldn’t use it I started to look for my next favourite name. So maybe don’t try to replace Estella with another name you love just as much, but rather just find your next best favourite. Out of all the names possible, your 2nd favourite name will still be one that you love very much! And it will probably grow on you over time as you accept that Estella can’t be used.
I like what everyone said about not giving up yet though, since you’re not pregnant. Maybe he’ll come around.
My husband doesn’t care for the name I always thought I’d name a daughter. I might be able to convince him to use it as a middle name someday, but with time I still think of that as “my” girl name, I don’t think of it as “our” girl name. So it’s gotten easier. And I’ve found other beautiful names too.
I have two stories about naming my children that relate to your dilemma:
1) I really liked the name Louisa and suggested it during my first pregnancy. My husband vetoed it. Then we found out the baby was going to be a boy and didn’t have to figure out a girl name after all, so I dropped it. 2 1/2 years later I was pregnant again, this time with a girl. Louisa was still on my list, but I didn’t suggest it for months because I figured the answer would still be no. But we couldn’t find anything else we both really liked that worked with our last name, so one afternoon I casually said, “What about Louisa?” And much to my surprise he said, “I really like that!” I didnt remind him that he had rejected it before, i just said “Hooray!” and started figuring out a middle name. Our Louisa is almost 6 months old now! So, as Swistle said, give it some time. You never know if your husband might come around to it.
2) On the flip side, my husband and I both loved the name Julian. When we would talk about hypothetical babies, we agreed that if we had a boy he would be Julian. But then when I was actually pregnant for real with a baby boy, it suddenly just didn’t feel right. I still don’t know why, I just had a feeling Julian wasn’t his name. My husband was baffled, but he humored me and we looked for another name, and our son ended up being Sebastian. I still lIke the name Julian very much, but my son is so not a Julian! So you never know what will happen!
Best of luck!
Would Estelle work for you? It’s very similar to Estella and may not remind your husband of the beer.
I am kind of having this issue in reverse. We had a name that we agreed on initially, but then my husband fell out of love with it and I am having trouble letting go.
Before my husband and I even conceived our first child, we had two girl names picked out: Margaret with the nickname of Greta or Eleanor with the nickname of Nora. We thought they’d make a good sibling pair and that they both paired well with our boy name picks. We waited until birth and ultimately decided that she was a Margaret with the nickname of Greta. Part of this decision, for me at least, was that I liked Eleanor more as a “little sister” name if we ever had another daughter.
Flash forward. We are pregnant with our second daughter, and my husband cannot get behind the name Eleanor anymore. He doesn’t like the nickname Nora anymore (and doesn’t like Ellie, Ella, Nell, Nellie, Nella….etc either), AND feels strongly that Eleanor needs a nickname. As much as I have tried to convince him otherwise, I can’t get him back on board with Eleanor, so I am coming to terms with the fact that we won’t have a little Nora. It’s really hard because we had previously-agreed on it, and so I feel like I am losing a daughter!
Oh, I did this to my husband, although it sheerly hypothetical at this point. We have a daughter “Lizzie” and thought “Katie” would be a good second girl name. When we began trying for #2, I decided I couldn’t stand Katherine anymore and struck it. It was sort of fun to go back to the drawing board.
What about Lena or Lana or Layna as a nickname?
My husband and I had a fairly unusual name picked out for our hypothetical first daughter that we both not only agreed on but liked. Imagine my husband’s surprise when I decided during my pregnancy that the name would be all wrong (for the daughter we were now having but hadn’t met yet) and would make her sound like a Disney princess. We picked something else, settled it for sure a few hours after her birth, and even though I have some regrets (it is basically a top-ten name minus a single letter, so she will be correcting people her entire life), I can’t think of any other name I’d rather she have. Imagining our original choice on her is bizarre now.
Some people love a name steadfastly, but it’s amazing how much can change both during pregnancy and after you take that first look at your child. It always drove me crazy that my husband never wanted to “settle” our naming issues during pregnancy, but since my second daughter ended up with the second-choice name on our short list, I think he may have been on to something.
Don’t give up, but definitely keep looking.
With our oldest daughter, I had mentioned what would eventually become her name years before I was even pregnant and his response was something along the lines of “meh.” I sort of gave up on ever having a daughter with that name and started looking for others. After searching through what felt like every name in the history of names, I found another name I could love as much as THE name. However, when it came down to picking our top choice for a girl, my husband felt that all the other names we were discussing just weren’t right and he was all for my initial longtime favorite. Go figure!
With our second daughter, I suggested another name I had loved for a long time – but he just wasn’t feeling it. Once again, I kind of gave up on having a daughter with my top name choice and started looking at other names. The entire pregnancy I worried because we could NOT agree on a girl name. Well, after numerous lists and changing our top name numerous times, we ended up finding a name that we BOTH absolutely love! [It was a name that we hadn’t even talked about when naming our first – even though, as I mentioned, we had searched through SO MANY girl names the first time around.]
So, in one case, my husband eventually came around to my longtime favorite. And in another case, his not liking my favorite prompted a search that led us to a name that we both absolutely adore. I wouldn’t give up on Estella. But I also would keep looking – you may just find a new name to love!
I agree with keeping it on the list. My husband hated the name we ultimately had as our final girl name (ended up we had a boy). He said some really nasty things about the name as a first reaction. Once he realized I really liked it and that style of name in general he came around to it. Especially after he found other names he disliked more.
I did find narrowing girls names down to be extremely hard. There are so many pretty ones, and lots of similarities between names (Estella, Stella, Estelle, Celeste, Estee, Esme). So maybe branch out and look at other names too.
Any updates? I’ve been wondering how it turned out! How about the name Sandhya?