Dear Swistle
My husband and I are the parents of 3 beautiful girls:Clara Jane, Lydia Kierston and Valerie Ann. It seems like our 4th child would most likely be a girl, if it were a boy we have the name William David picked out. I have followed your blog for sometime and remember awhile back you posted about double Mary names. However, when naming Valerie most of our family and friends immediately said all the Mary names we picked out sounded like Catholic nun names. We aren’t Catholic and to be fair my favorite was Mary Agnes nn Maggie. Which I realize is very traditional. I still really love this name combination, but am wondering if people would respond better if we chose something like Mary Eliza nn Mellie? All of our girls have one name that is a family name and we are down to Mary which is a family name on both sides. Is there any way of sprucing up Mary and making it seem “fresh” as a double name? Or does Mary, as a stand alone name, work with our other naming choices? Thank you so much!
The double-Mary names sound very fresh and charming to me, and also quite Catholic. I’m not sure if they can be separated from that connection or not, but if they can’t be, is that okay? It seems like with a lot of names, our acquaintances can give dealbreaker-implying feedback along the lines of “Oh, that sounds like ____” or “Oh, that reminds me of _____,” even when those associations aren’t negative—as if no name with any association can be used. I think it’s worth asking the follow-up question “So what? Is that a problem?” (I mean, in your own mind, to evaluate your own feelings about the raised issues. Not to the face of someone who has remarked upon an association.) (Unless their tone of voice just steps on your LAST NERVE that day.)
If you use a name that sounds like “a Catholic nun,” that is unlikely to cause people to mistake your new baby for a Catholic nun. If you like, when you introduce the baby, you can say, “Her name is Mary Agnes: Mary for her [relative] and [other relative], and Agnes because we liked it.” If they say to you, upon hearing your baby’s name, “Oh, are you Catholic?,” you can say, “No: Mary is a family name”—and most people in your life presumably already know you are not Catholic. If you plan to call her Maggie, it may hardly ever come up.
Thinking it over further, I don’t think I know any double-Marys who aren’t Mariannes or Maryellens or some other combination that hasn’t been stripped of the Catholic feeling. There haven’t been any girls with double-Mary names in any of my children’s classes so far, either. If there WERE a Mary Agnes in one of my children’s classes, I don’t think I’d assume the family was Catholic: the name has too much vintage appeal for that, and I’d wonder if parents who WERE Catholic would find those names too old-fashioned/overused (and/or too evocative of former teachers), and would be leaning more toward saint names such as Felicity and Lucia.
I did a quick, statistically-insignificant 5-child survey in my house just now, to find out what school-aged children might think; my sample included a 2nd grader, two 4th graders, an 8th grader, and a 10th grader. I first asked if any of them had ever known a girl with a Mary ____ name. They all said no. I then asked if they would make any association with such a name, or assume anything about her because of that name, and they all said no. I said, “So you don’t think of that name as being Catholic?,” and four of them said no and one of them said “Why would I?” I wouldn’t describe our area as Heavily Catholic, but we have a large Catholic church and the school cafeteria doesn’t serve meat on Fridays, so we’re not Catholic-Free, either. If your area is similar, my guess is that the child’s peers will be more surprised by two names than they will be by any Catholic-nun associations.
I do think it would help to use a second name that is less often associated with nunneries. Mary Eliza as you suggest, or something like Mary Violet, Mary Sophia, Mary Olivia, Mary Alexis, Mary Louise, etc. But if your favorite is Mary Agnes, I wouldn’t choose something else just to try to get a better reaction. Mary Agnes is one of my favorites, too.
I’m not sure how I feel about Mary on its own in this sibling group. It seems quite similar in sound to Clara, and to Valerie. If I say the names together, Clara, Lydia, Valerie, Mary, I feel like I’m saying a lot of “air” and “ree.” Not enough, however, to make me say it doesn’t work.
If the combination names continue to sound not-quite-right for your family, and if the air/ree sound repetition doesn’t bother you, then I suggest Rosemary.
Or perhaps Mary could work as a middle name.
Or if Mary could also be Marie, Marie makes a very pretty middle name or a fresh surprising first name (though it matches Valerie’s ending).
Or else I suggest going back to the family tree to see if Mary is the very last possibility or if there are still others to investigate.
I find, though, that I am rooting for you to use a Mary ____ name. I really do find them charming, and I’m ready to start hearing them again. (It is perhaps worth noting that I have never been to Catholic school, however. I hear it is a very influencing experience.)
I like Mary Eliza, but do not like the nickname Mellie. I think she will be called Smelly for years, and that could be a hard thing for a little girl (especially in middle school). I do tend to associate the Mary ______ names with Catholics, although I didn’t until I moved to a very Catholic town. I think it is something that is really popular in the South (Southeastern US) and could also be associated as “Southern.”
I agree, it sounds more Southern to me than Catholic. I grew up in a very Catholic town (in Canada, though), and I didn’t know anyone named Mary ______. The main one that comes to mind is Mary Anne Spier from The Babysitters Club. :) I think it’s sweet and fresh on a little girl, though the name Agnes doesn’t appeal to me personally. Mary Sophia is pretty, and a great way to add some interest to the ubiquitous Sophia.
Recently saw a baby Mary Alice. Seemed “refreshed” version of Mary Ann to my ear. I love it, but Mary Agnes has the same ring for me too.
Love Mary Alice! Was going to suggest Mary Elise…
I read these comments quickly and changed “Mary Alice” to “Malice.” So I think I like Mary Elise better!
I love Mary Agnes nn’d Maggie. Also love Swistle’s observation that no one will be mistaking your baby for a Catholic nun (!).
Not sure how I feel about the repeating “air” and “ree” sounds…..I pronounce Mary a bit more like Merry and less like the a’s in Clara & Valerie. But I do pronounce Maggie with the same sound that’s also in Clara & Valerie, so this would probably end up be a consideration for me if I were naming. But the beauty of the name might outweigh the consideration.
I went to college with a young woman named Mary Marguerite, which I loved. She always went by Marguerite.
My MIL is Mary Margaret and we were all set to name my daughter Mary Catherine (Catherine being my mom’s name and my middle name) when my MIL told us not to. We are not Catholic, and it didn’t bother me in the least to use the double Mary name anyway, but apparently it drove her batty growing up with everyone making that assumption about her. Instead we named my daughter Hazel for my great-grandmother. I don’t really regret it, as my daughter is a perfect Hazel, but if I ever had another, I would go back to the double Mary name. I still love it! I think I’d use Mary Opal, for my MIL and a different great-grandmother. I say go for it!
For what it’s worth, I’m not Catholic and I don’t assume Mary-_____ names are Catholic. I don’t hear a lot of double-barreled names, so to me, that’s what makes Mary-Agnes or Mary-Eliza stand out. It feels vintage-y to me – I think of the movie Pleasantville, in which characters from the 1990s are transported to living in a 1950s TV show and the girls are all named Mary-Sue, Peggy Jane, Betty-Jean, etc.
Mary Agnes –> Maggie feels intuitive; Mary Eliza –> Mellie feels less so, because the second syllable in Eliza is stressed, so “elle” isn’t what a person hears first. I think Mary Eleanor –> Mellie would be an easier jump to make.
If you’re open to Mary alternatives/variants, I’ve always found Maria has a great lively-but-grounded quality. I know it still has a “ree” sound and ends in “-ia” like Lydia, but unlike Lydia, its second syllable is the one that’s stressed, so they don’t sound too similar IMHO. There’s also the possible nickname Mia there, if you like that, and I think it would appropriately honour someone named Mary.
Also, I taught in a large (protestant!) private school where double Mary names and double news in general were very common. I taught or knew of little girls named Mary Kate, Mary Beth, Mary Catherine, Mary Ralph, Hannah Kate, and Annie Grace. I loved it!
My 4yo son has a double first name – John Henry – and I love it. We’ve gotten a lot of positive comments on it, and despite my worries, it hasn’t been an issue at doctor’s offices, preschool, etc. to have him have a double-barrel first name.
I love the sound of Mary Agnes. I think it’s cute and fresh. I also have a neighbor who has an 8-year-old girl, Mary Rose. They’re not Catholic.
I love Mary Agnes nn Maggie, but I don’t know if I love it with your sibset? It seems more vanilla than your other girls in some way I can’t seem to articulate.
From Gail’s comment, I love the idea of Marguerite/Margaret instead. Maybe Marguerite Agnes nn Maggie or even Daisy? Or how about Melanie instead of trying to get Mellie from Mary Eliza? Kinda agree that the nickname Mellie has some risky teasing options though.
Do your other girls have nicknames? If they don’t, would it seem strange to you to have only one that does?
Clara Jane, Lydia Kierston, Valerie Ann and Marguerite Agnes seems lovely to me!
I know a 30 something Mary Jean, goes by Jean. But I’ve always liked her name. And it’s very traditional but never came off as uber-Catholic.
I think Mary Agnes gives more of a Catholic feel than many Mary namesbecause there is a St. Agnes and a play that was made into a movie about a Catholic nun who gives birth. That said, the movie came out in the 1980’s and I think it is mostly grandparents and older who would even associate the name with that movie,
That said Mary Agnes is lovely. But if I was going to select a double Mary name, I wouldn’t hide it by using a nickname that didn’t include Mary in it. I really like Mary Elizabeth nn Mary Beth, Mary Katherine nn Mary Kate, and Mary Josephine nn Mary Jo.
Oh, I love Mary Elizabeth, nn Mary Beth!
We named our daughter Mary Elizabeth nn Maisie.
We named her Mary after me and Elizabeth after my mother, grandmother and great grandmother who all shared Elizabeth as a middle name.
We are not Catholic and wondered if people would assume we were, but so far no one has asked (or cared).
We gave Maisie a second middle name that’s pretty oddball to make up for giving her two very conventional names. Interestingly, we’ve met two other babies named Maisie but not a single Mary or Mary_.
I think that Catholicism is sufficiently integrated into American culture that nobody will know whether you’re Catholic, you’re naming your daughter after a Catholic ancestor, or if you just think Mary Louise Parker has a cool name. Can I throw in Mary Irene as an option?
But I also think Mary by itself could be a great choice. The repeated sounds with Clara and Valerie don’t bother me at all, and classic, slightly old fashioned names seem to be the definition of fresh right now. I can think of plenty of mom-aged or grandma-aged women with double Mary names (ack! Mary Kate Olsen is 28), but not many who are just Mary.
I also had the Smellie Mellie response : / Sorry!
I will second the Mary Kate suggestion – as that was the first thing that came to my mind.
I’ll throw out Mary Jo – if you have a Jo/Joe to honor as well, maybe that would work?
From Swistle, I liked Rosemary – maybe Rose Mary to keep the double-barrel idea?
Of the ideas suggested I like the intuitive nickname option of Mary Agnes nn Maggie.
Another option is stand alone Mary as the first name with Molly as a nn option. I grew up with a girl who did this and most often people just assumed her given name was Molly.
Mae or May is also a classic nickname for Mary if you like this route.
I went to school with a Mary Emily and never assumed she was Catholic. When I was working at a children’s birthday party place I remember seeing a group of friends that had a Mary Martha, Mary Frances, and a Mary Thomas… I remember thinking it was odd that there were three Mary Somethings in a group of probably eight girls, but I don’t remember assuming they were Catholic.
I am not Catholic, but grew up in a Very Catholic area. My family was certainly in the minority when it came to religion. Mary Something reads as Very Catholic to me. My next door neighbors as a kid all had Mary Something names. Mom went by plain Mary & the daughters were Mary Claire, Mary Grace & Mary Katherine (they went by Claire, Grace & Kay). FWIW, Claire named her daughter Mary Agnes. Perhaps this could be an option for you? Name her Mary Agnes and call her Agnes (or Aggie). If what you really want is Maggie, I will suggest Mary Margaret with the nickname Maggie (though Mary Margaret is also Very Catholic). Or just move Mary to the middle spot & name her Agnes Mary.
For me, there are a small handful of Mary Something names that don’t read as Catholic. Maryanne (but only when written as one name) Mary Sue and Mary Ellen (and technically Lisa Marie I guess). Something like Rosemary could also work.
I’ll also suggest you look at other Marian names besides just Mary/Marie. Miriam (possible nicknames Miri or Mimi), Maria, Molly (traditionally a diminutive for Mary), Mia, Maura, Maureen, there are literally dozens of options that could work. And I think something like Miriam Agnes or Molly Agnes reads as more vintage/sweet than Very Catholic.
I think Mary is a perfect fit in this sibset– two names ending in A, two names ending in ie/ y. Mary Agnes sounds more potentially Catholic to me than something like Mary Alice, which sounds Southern. Both are lovely choices, so I think you have a lot of freedom.
As far as the Smelly Mellie comment– I’m a Janelle who is often called Nelly, and it was fairly easy to squash any Smelly Nelly comments pretty early on. My brother was another story… but I wouldn’t let that fear keep you from Mary Eliza if you love it.
I love Mary Agnes and I love Rosemary, too.
Here are some other names similar to Mary:
– Marietta
– Marion
– Maren
– Marielle
I do like Mary Agnes and it does sound Catholic, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I also like a lot of names derived from Mary– Mariah, Maura etc. And Rosemary was a good suggestion.
I went through school with a girl named Mary (so she’s 42 now). Her middle name was Margaret and her mother calls her exclusively “Mary Margaret” but no one else does. We all called her Mary, which eliminates any potential Catholic nun associations. And honestly, I never once thought “nun” when I heard her mom call her by the double name. I only thought “that’s a mouthful – such a long name”. Mary Agnes is shorter and thus eliminates that problem. I say go for it, if you like it!
For what it’s worth, I am a Mary(anne) and I am Catholic. My husband has a childhood friend with the name Mary Rachel (not exactly but close) who is not Catholic and it always seems odd to me. Every other Mary I know is Catholic. I love Mary names tho because I think it sounds very fresh and sweet. I do think that a double Mary name sounds Catholic to me because traditionally that is how Catholic families differentiated multiple Marys in one family. My mother was a Mary, and my paternal grandmother and paternal aunt are also Mary, therefore I needed a double name.
Swistle, it blows my mind that your public school does not serve meat on Fridays. That’s crazy.
I’m a bit confused. From your letter, I assumed your sibling set would be Clara, Lydia, Valerie and Mary Agnes (Maggie). I think they’re all great! I don’t know general convention for double first names. Would she then have a middle name as well?
That is indeed one of the sibling sets she’s considering. She also asked about using Mary on its own, or using other double-Mary names.
I am Catholic, and I live in a heavily Catholic area. (We’re a stone’s throw from Catholic University!) So … yeah.
Would I assume Mary Double was Catholic? Probably. The Mary Double Names that I know are. But then, hey, so are lots of kids that I know with names like Sam and Levi and Lilianna.
One thing that makes it less obviously Catholic is, I think, to use a more masculine middle: Mary Blair (as in the amazing Disney illustrator), Mary Blake, Mary Rae.
I’m not sure that’s your style, but thought it might appeal – it undeniably makes Mary Double Name feel distinctive.
Hello
I am currently toying with Mary double also. My mums name is Mary and I wanted to honour her. I am catholic and went to a school with nuns so Mary Agnes does sounds a bit ‘nunlike’ to me, also Mary Margaret. I like Swistles suggestions of Mary Sophia or Mary Louise (marylou as nn)
Personally I originally I had Marianne and Mariella (nn Mela) on my list but now I am looking at adding on a name to Mary and making it a double barrel name. Suddenly sounds fresh again.
Could you use the nn Mela for Mary Eliza?
– I knew a very glamourous Italian lady called Mela (it means apple in Italian I think and have always thought it was a charming nn)
We love the nn Lainey but dont like Elaine, I was thinking Mary Alaina, but that does give five syllables, possibly a mouthful for a little girl and I am not sure if the two names match in style. Lots to consider
When hearing a double Mary ______ name, especially when paired with an “old fashioned” name, ie Agnes, Margaret, Alice, etc., my mind automatically goes, “ah Catholic, probably Irish and Catholic”. (And then my mind thinks of Mary Catherine Gallagher). It’s not necessarily bad, but the association is there. Right not just Mary and then have a middle name? I like Mary a lot on its own and I especially like Molly or Mae as nicknames.
Good luck!
I love double Mary names as well. I am Catholic and went to Catholic school (I was born in the mid 80s, so I wasn’t taught by nuns though). It does hit my ear as more likely to be Catholic, but it’s not strong enough to completely assume a religious association. My favorite combinations (that are in the running for our third baby) are:
-Mary Beatrice (I love the idea of calling her Mary Bee)
-Mary Frances (might veer into the strong catholic association though)
-Mary June
My first favorite double Mary name was Mary Alice. However, it was a deal breaker for me when I thought of the possible nickname of Malice.
Oooo, I would THINK I wouldn’t like the Malice thing, but actually I do! It’s not the sort of nickname I can picture being a problem in the teasing years, or the kind of nickname other people would think of and use regularly/routinely; it’s more the sort of nickname I can picture a high school girl choosing as a comical and occasional nickname for herself. Tough/funny/”this is my motorcyclist/rockstar name,” rather than insulting/humiliating/hurtful. If you love Mary Alice, I wouldn’t let that stop you.
Haha, that is such a good way of thinking about it. I just put it back on my list. :)
I have a Mary Alice in my family and I think her name is just lovely.
I knew a “Marialyce” pronounced “Mary Alice” but I always wanted to call her Maria-leese.
I think Mary Agnes is adorable, and the nickname Maggie definitely takes away any hesitation I’d have about it. My main concern with a double-barreled Mary is simply that I think most people will tend to drop the second name, so you’d have to be okay with her being called just Mary quite often. I have a friend with a double-barreled name –think Sarah Jane — and she has to do a lot of correcting to get people to use both. But if you plan to call her Maggie most of the time anyway, that will be less of a problem.
I think both choices are lovely and I love double Mary names even as a non-Catholic, non-Southerner!
More double Mary names for future visitors looking for less nun more fun…(not that nuns aren’t fun–I’m sure!!)
Mary Ingrid (nn Mimi) LOVE THIS
Mary Gabrielle (MG)
Mary Blanche
Mary Odille
Mary Iris
Mary Louise (Millie)
My aunt is a Catholic nun and now lives in a convent retirement community. Many of her friends are named things like Sister Mary Thomas, Sister Mary George, Sister Mary Lawrence, Sister Mary Alice, Sister Mary Joan. These are ladies in their 70s and 80s, so those names feel vintage and charming to me, actually.
I would assume Mary Agnes would be from a Catholic family for this reason (but I feel neutral about that fact, so it wouldn’t especially bother or please me). However, I know other kids with double-barrel names and I don’t automatically think of Catholicism: John David, Michael James, Peggy Rose.
My sister-in-law is a 30-year-old Agnes and I am VERY fond of the name because I am VERY fond of my SIL. I think calling Mary Agnes “Maggie” is sweet.
I love the suggestion above of Mary Beatrice, nn Mary Bee. Swooooon!
I LOVE Mary Agnes.
In my family I have cousins Mary Alice, Mary Ellen, and Mary Beth. None of them are Catholic, although Mary Alice is Very Religious. I don’t think it’s her name that gives off that impression though. It’s her devout demeanor and life focus.
Outside of my family I know a few people named Marianne/Mary Ann/Maryann, and I know one Marybeth, and I don’t think any of them are Catholic either. I guess I haven’t given it much thought though.
One of my favorites has always been Margaret Mary. It was the name of a baby in Angela’s Ashes (so, spoiler alert, like almost every baby in that book she dies). Also, yeah, clearly Irish and Catholic so it doesn’t really speak to the “does this sound Catholic?” but to the “can you put Mary in the middle?”
I love Mary _____ names and have since Mary Kate Olsen walked on to the set of Full House. Mary Catherine nn Mary Kate? Yes, please.
I went to a small catholic all girls high school and there were many double Marys in my class. (For reference, I’m 25). Mary Catherine, Mary Kate, Mary Kathleen, Mary Elizabeth, Mary Grace, Mary Claire, Mary Caroline, Mary Rita, Mary Ellen, Mary Noelle… About 10% of my class was named Mary _______, though many of them went by nicknames. Given the environment I grew up in, I do find that I would assume that a Mary ______ would be catholic, but I don’t think it would be something I would think about often. I personally love double names, I think they have a lot of charm, and would definitely consider using one for future children. I think Mary Agnes is a great way to go!
If my baby was a girl (he wasn’t) we were going to name him Mary Clare or Mary Frances.
I’m not catholic but I’m fine with the assumption – it isn’t like it’s an insult or anything!
I asked my very devout catholic friend if there were any problems from a catholic perspective and she said absolutely not.
Mary double names just sound Southern to me. I live in Alabama and hear them all the time. Around here it’s fairly common to pair Mary with a family surname i.e. Mary Hampton, Mary Banks, Mary Vance, etc. I also hear the standard Mary Grace, Mary Helen, Mary Katherine, etc a lot.
I had to comment because my daughter’s name is Clara and if I have another she will quite possibly be named Lydia! (I like Valerie too, but it doesn’t work with my surname) Anyway, I love you naming style! That being said I personally am not in love with Mary Agnes or any or the double mary names. They do read catholic to me, and they just aren’t my cup of tea. I actually quite like Mary on it’s own, so that’s what I would go with of your choices. Or Marie. I have a friend who just had a baby Marie, and it is so refreshing and adorable as a first name on a little baby. I was surprised by how much I loved her choice. Good luck! Be sure to update us!!
I recently met someone named Mary Agnes (who went by both names, “Mary Agnes”), and my immediate thought was Ohmygosh, what a fabulous, fresh-sounding name — I love it! I suppose I made a slight (and not unpleasant) association with a Catholic nun, but it didn’t occur to me that Mary Agnes herself or her family were necessarily Catholic. What DID occur to me was that they had picked a really cool-sounding name!
*its not it’s,
I’d also suggest Mariel, one of my favorites.
I like Mary Agnes and Mary Eliza quite a lot. I love Mary Alice. Marian and Miriam are darling too.
We used Mary as an honor name after a Catholic grandma who didn’t raise her children Catholic and we are not at all Catholic. I grew up around a lot of Catholics, and if I met a mom aged person, Mary would maybe make me think of Catholicism. I’m an active protestant and there’s some sort of joke (maybe Garrison Keillor?) about how we Lutherans know about the two Marys in the bible and think of them as pretty much equally important. You know, the mother of Jesus and Mary who wouldn’t help with the dishes. Samesies.
I DO know several under ten girls named Mary, including one who uses a double name. (The second name is not a widely used name in America, but VERY popular in a European country that is not known for Catholics, its such an unusual name that I hesitate to post it here) I also know several double names girls that seem both charmingly old-fashioned and fresh and spunky. Some of them go by full given names, some use a shortened first name plus the second name, some even go by initials. I love them all!
I’m wondering how you chose Kierston? I would maybe explore that line of more international or not tradition first names, but I would not give up on Mary Agnes. It’s a wonderful name and perhaps you need to keep looking in order to confirm that it is the name for your new daughter!
Love Mary Agnes, love just about every Mary double barrel name. I am Catholic and would not assume that a child named Mary Agnes was Catholic any more than I’d assume an Asher or Ester was Jewish. I might make an assumption about religion for someone named Mary Anyname with a super Irish last name (like McGuire, O’Brian or Murphy) but then what? If Mary Anyname McGuire turned out to be any Judeo-Christian religion or even atheist I’d just shrug. If she was Hindu or Muslim I might remind myself not to judge a book by its cover then never give it another thought.
Plus Maggie is sweet.
btw I think a Mary Alice nn Malice might compete in roller derby. Love it
I have a friend named Marielle – Mary Elle? I think it sounds cute and trendy with the old fashioned twist of Mary.
My vote is for Mary Jane – adorable!
I love Mary Agnes on it’s own. With your sib set, not as much (not a deal breaker though!). I’d suggest Merritt Agnes (nn: Merry or Maggie).
On a side note, I do vaguely think of Mary Agnes as Catholic, but don’t think that matters, assumptions happen with every name!
I do really like Mary Agnes and I love using nn Maggie. I would, however, assume a Mary _____ was Catholic. I grew up Catholic and have many Mary ____’s in the family ( Mary Kay, Mary Joan, Mary Jean and just plain Mary in the first name and middle spot). I don’t think it’s a bad association and also one that is quickly washed away when you say you aren’t.
Well, I do think of Mary Agnes as a little more Catholic (like, Irish Catholic), kind of like Mary Catherine, Mary Margaret, Mary Francis, etc. But I wouldn’t automatically assume the girl to be religious, and it’s certainly not a negative association. I think it’s just Mary + saint name = Catholic-sounding name. Mary Agnes nn Maggie is wonderful, though, as would be Mary Sophia nn Maisie or even a Mary Emma or Mary Amelia (love the M-heavy double names).
Agnes is one of my very favorite names of all time. I knew an Agnes who changed my life. She was the sweetest, most generous, incredibly gentle soul. So, clearly, I’m in the ‘use Agnes’ camp. She’s a lovely lady.
Maggie is a darling nickname–clever with Mary Agnes.
I agree with others that there are some great traditional options for Mary: according to http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/Mary, there are 103 variant forms.
Best wishes as you welcome your next daughter!
My name is Mary Katherine, but I’ve gone by Katie since birth. I’m Catholic, and I go to a very prominent Catholic university where I hear Mary/ Mary ______ names ALL the time. If I met a little girl named Mary ______, I would wonder if her family was Catholic, but I wouldn’t assume it and it wouldn’t make a difference either way.
As a “closet” Mary ______, I really like my name. It used to bother me when I was little when teachers would call me Mary on the first day of school, but I’ve grown to like having a formal name and an everyday nickname. With that said, I would opt for you to use a double Mary name because it’s a sweet and refreshing choice, and if Mary Agnes/Eliza/etc decides someday that she doesn’t want two names, she could always go by Maggie, Agnes, etc as a backup.
I’m Catholic and attended a prominent Catholic university here in the US, and I honestly didn’t hear that many Mary ____ while I was there. I have one friend named Mary Patricia (Mary Pat) but I really heard way more Megan/Caitlin/Emily/Katie during my college years. If I heard a small child with a double Mary name, I think my first reaction might be to assume that she or the family is Southern rather than Catholic. I also think Mary Alice nn Malice might be the best thing I have heard all week. I say go for it!
I also have four daughters and all of their eight names are family names. As I had a very very dear Great Aunt Mary, a beloved grandmother Mary who died far too young, and a lovely mother-in-law Mary (who is a non-Catholic Mary Catherine), I was keen to use the name Mary for one of my girls. My struggle was that I didn’t want two people being called Mary in the same family, so I considered a double name which would combine Mary with another family name. I kept naming my girls other names as I could never make the Mary work just right. My third daughter ended up being called a different double name (Catherine surname, but we call her Cate surname).
In spite of the fact that we are southern (double names feel more southern than Catholic to me while I’m certainly aware of both associations), I thought two children in the same family called by two names was a bit much. However, daughter number four was due, my Great Aunt Mary was 104 and still going, and I was determined to use the name Mary. While I don’t get terribly hung up on matching sibsets, Mary seemed too short by itself compared to my other three daughters’ names and I still had the two Marys concern as my MIL was/is still alive and well. I thought I might just put Mary in the middle name slot, but I really really struggled to find a first name that worked with Mary as a middle name. We planned to bite the bullet, pair Mary with a family surname, and have two daughters with double names, but I just couldn’t do it. No solution seemed quite right. In the end, we chose Emmeline (a family name we had visited during the third pregnancy) as the first name and put Mary in the middle. I think they work beautifully together and that Emmeline matches the sisters’ names well. We call her Emmeline and Emme, but I also use Emmeline Mary at least once a day, as I love the sound of it and miss my Aunt Mary (she made it to 106!).
I think my point in all this is, that as common as Mary is, it can be difficult to work with because it is so common that we (collectively) have many different associations with it and that those associations create expectations as to how it should be used. But, I think that all of that seems to mean that it can be used in just about any manner and be easily accepted. I think it is a beautiful timeless name and that you should pair it or single it in any way that just plain feels and sounds right to you. I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the possibilities you’ve mentioned.
Swistle: I would love to see a post about names that pair well with Mary as a middle name; I’m guessing that I’m not the only one who found this tricky! It seemed that the only rhythm that worked was a three-syllable first name, but I might have just been narrow minded about it:)
Have you ever read the book Cold Sassy Tree? It is a charming book and the little girl in it was called Mary Toy. I always loved that! I like Mary paired with an unusual word/name like that….Mary Plum, Mary Dash, Mary Lore, Mary Ellis, Mary Vale, etc….
I just re-read your post and realized that a pregnancy containing a fourth daughter might still be theoretical; kudos to you for long-range planning, and I’m sorry if I made an incorrect assumption!
Just wanted to weigh in in favor of the single Mary. I have a one-year-old whose full name is Mary J@meson Lastname. We used Mary to honor my MIL, who I love, but at her birth I felt very meh about the name. Now I am obsessed! It seems so fresh and sweet on my little one, and people comment in positive ways all the time. Some relatives are trying to call her MJ to differentiate her from my MIL, but I am sticking exclusively to Mary. Love it! At home we call her “Mare” or “Mare-bear” which are cute too. FWIW, when I hear a double-Mary name I usually first assume southern rather than Catholic.
I love Mary Agnes! My brother is dating a college freshman named Mary Frances and even with Catholic grandparents on both sides of my family, I didn’t assume she was Catholic– rather, I was excited to find that she had such a lovely name!
And I can vouch for the fact that the devoutly Catholic families I know are choosing older saint names– my circle of friends and acquaintences include children with Jane, Augustine “Auggie”, Francesca “Frances” and the one expecting mom I know is considering names like Helena and Alice and Paul.
I’d be far more likely to assume a family was Christian if they had children named Ephraim or Judah, but Mary (even with Agnes) seems to be so classic (but underused as of late), that it falls in the same camp for me as names like Noah and Asher– I wouldn’t assume parents of those boys were Christian. And especially if you’re planning on calling her Maggie, it seems less of a problem. But on that point, is that a plan to CALL her Maggie and introduce her that way? “This is my daughter, Maggie”? Or is that a plan that friends and family would use the nickname but she’d be called Mary Agnes just as often and introduced by her formal name?
I only ask because we have a Théoden that we call Theo maybe half the time, but introduce as Théoden, and a Samuel that is Sam 90% of the time and is always introduced as Sam.
Well, I just adore Mary Agnes, and I have a deep fondness for Mary Eliza, as Eliza is my own middle name.
I know a 2.5 year old Mary Margaret D@isy, who goes by Maggie. It is just the sweetest name, and it works SO well on little ones these days. Her first Is Mary Margaret, with the middle being D@isy. Her two older brothers chose D@isy as her middle name, and no one in the family realized it was a nickname for Margaret until I mentioned it– they thought it was a fabulous connection.
I’m 28 and the name sounds a little Catholic to me, but it wouldn’t if I knew the family wasn’t. I love the name Mary, either as a double name or by itself! I think it’s very fresh and young-sounding (even though I have two aunts named Mary) and I love picturing the name on a little girl. Totally classic.
I’m 40 and grew up in Oklahoma, and the Mary _____ construction seems very Catholic to me. But I find it charming and attractive and I like the double name thing, which does feel Southern (and not out of place in OK either).
I can’t resist the opportunity to mention this family that has five Marys (and a company/brand/place called Five Marys Farms). Their daughters are along the left side of the page: Mary Frances (Francie), Mary Marjorie (Maisie), Mary Jane (Janie), and Mary Teresa (Tessa). The mom is named Mary too. http://www.campheff.com/
Mary is a sweet name on a little girl and I just love some of the double names, especially Mary Louise.
What about Mary Anna nickname Annie? I love how Mary Anna rolls off the tongue!
All the best!
I adore the name Mary, fwiw. If I had triplet girls, I’d name them Mary, Marie and Maria.
I’m a Mary Kate and growing up I never really got asked if I was Catholic. But that might be because people associate Mary Kate more with the Olsen. Now that gets mentioned ALL the time.
I was so excited and wistful to see this question! I have a 2 year old Mary. We wanted and M name, and loved Maggie, but Margaret and Magnolia were off the table. When Mary was five months old my MIL said “Well, you could have done Mary Agnes and called her Maggie” and I almost died. It is so brilliant and I so wish we had thought of it. Or Mary Agate, which is a little off the beaten path. So Mary Agnes called Maggie is a wonderful choice.
We also adored Molly, but for family reasons (in law girl friend) we couldn’t, but that is a great choice.
We thought about a double Mary name, but worried other people would think we were catholic. Note, I am not saying we thought it sounded Catholic, just that we thought other people would. I’m kicking myself for that now.
I am not Catholic-Free, ha!, in that I am Catholic, and it’s true that it was traditional a long time ago to name your first girl Mary. Then everyone did it and so you had to go by first and middle because there were just too many Marys in class! My mother’s name is Rose Bridget and her brothers call her Rose Bridget, as did everyone she went to school with. She always says when she went to (public) high school, they started calling her Rose and she was too shy to correct anyone so that’s when she started getting called just Rose. I know a ton of Marys but I don’t know many that actually go by Mary. My friend Molly is Mary, her mother Susie is also Mary Susan, my friend Jenny is Mary Jennifer, I mean, no Mary I know actually goes by Mary! My oldest daughter is Maria Kathleen, I liked the name and tradition of naming a daughter Mary but my husband liked a longer name so she became Maria which of course suits her perfectly, now.
Maria goes to school with a girl named Mary Lisa, which I love the sound of, it feels sort of unexpected. I also have a friend named Marybeth, all one word, and that’s nice, it uses Mary but doesn’t sound like Mary Margaret Flanagan, same as Marian. My cousin has a Mary Katherine, but she has only ever gone by Mary and she is 17 years old and I think the only Mary in her class. She also has a *very* Irish last name but they are not Catholic. In short, (too late) I think there are a lot of great options to use Mary Middlename and I don’t think it would make people assume you are Catholic (probably the fact that you have four kids will do that more, ha ha boo hoo) but there are also Mary-like names which are just as nice. Best of luck!
Another Mary Double Name chiming in. I share a name and age with the double-barreled Olsen twin. Misc. observations:
1. Is your last name simple to spell and pronounce? Mine isn’t. Some days the two first names + hard to spell last name is too much hassle. I’m slowly transitioning into Just Mary in my professional life for that reason. As a double-named, I personally wouldn’t give a double name to child unless my last name were of the Cole/Smith/Johnson variety.
2. “Where’s Ashley?” is FAR FAR more common than “are you Catholic?” but that’s probably specific to MK. Actually I don’t think I’ve ever been asked if I was Catholic, poss. b/c it’s so obvious that I am (names, Irish coloring, area of country, etc, school).
3. I am Catholic, and I’d assume a Mary Agnes who went by that in everyday life might be — same for a Mary Margaret, Mary T(h)eres(e)(a), Mary Cecilia, Mary Frances. I wouldn’t ask or say anything about it though!
4. My VERY FAVORITE Mary name is Mary Rose. I met a Mary Rose recently and marveled at how lovely and fresh it was. Doesn’t read especially Catholic to me, FWIW.
5. Most double names, including mine, feel perpetually little-girl to me (could be just me though! and I do think most of them are beautiful!). Another reason I’m going Just Mary at work.
6. Mary Agnes is a lovely name and I think you should use it if you want to!
my little girl’s middle names are Marie Suzanne, one after each grandma. Marie seems fresher than Mary.
My great grandmother was named Mary Agnes, and I’ve always loved it. She was the wife of a Baptist minister, so I don’t make the Catholic association. I think Mary Agnes, nicknamed Maggie, is brilliant!
I love all of these suggestions. I want to suggest a few of my own, but I’m sorry if these were already listed. I haven’t read this thread thoroughly.
• Mary Jane (just like in spiderman.)
• Mary Belle
• Mary Gwen (A little more out there, and I honestly just want to experiment with this name idea. I think it has a good ring to it. What do you all think?)