Hi Swistle,
I am a massive fan of your blog and have been an avid follower for many years (before I was even married or pregnant!)
I am pregnant and due in April with our first baby and this will also be the first grandchild on both sides
We haven’t found out the sex and have had a baby name list for a couple of years. We think we have settled on names for both boy and girl, but I keep having doubts about whether people will like them (I know we can’t please everyone) but I am worrying about peoples negative responses
We have chosen Thelma Jane for a girl, Thelma (husbands grandma’s name) and Jane (my grandma’s name)
My husband really likes the name and it just happens that they are our grandma’s names, but I am worrying about using an honour name (both our grandma’s are deceased) but I don’t want to offend my husbands other grandma (Sheila) or offend any of our parents if we have another girl in the future and don’t use any honour names for them.
For a boy we both really like Forrest, but we can’t decide on a middle name. We liked William, but cannot use this anymore. We also like James, (my granddad was called & christened Jim, so not an honour name, but is in a way?!) but don’t love the name…. and worried about it being too similar to Jane (middle name for girl, see above)
We want something a bit more common to go with the unusual name of Forrest.
I am very concerned about peoples reactions for Forrest. I keep going through stages of feeling determined that this is the name we both like and have liked for a couple of years, but then I go through stages of feeling really anxious and worrying about people mentioning the film Forrest Gump (not the reason we chose the name) or grandparents who only seem to like regal names (like William, Harry, George, Charles) there is nothing wrong with regal names, but not what we are looking for with a first name.
My husband is really settled on these names, I think I am too. But I keep questioning if other people will like them, I am worried they will have a negative reaction and then it will change the way I look at the name.
Other names we have considered for a girl:
Enid
Jovie (don’t like the ‘ie’ ‘ey’ rhyming of last of middle name and last of surname, my name is K@yley H@rtley, cant get much rhymier than that!)
Jerrica
Deryn (pronounced Derren)
Lavender
Nuala
Sylvie (same ‘ie’ ‘ey’ rhyming issue)
Emerald
Penelope
MarcellaOther names we have considered for a boy:
Zeke (don’t like how it sounds with the surname)
Malory
Selwyn
Parker
Morris
Sebastian
Kip (middle name)
Solomon
Evander (middle name)
Gabriel (middle name)
Alexander (middle name)We don’t like names beginning with H as we feel they clash with our surname and are hoping to have 3 children in total!
Any help or advice on the names we have considered and advice on middle names for Forrest would be really appreciated, really hoping you can help and thank you in advance :)
Many thanks,
K@yley and Jo$eph H@rtley
It is definitely one of the tricky parts of using honor names: many parents wonder if the people they DON’T honor will then feel NON-honored by implication. I’m not sure if there’s any good way around it, but this may be where the tradition of “only use honor names of people who have died” comes from: if you’ll never know if you were honored or not (or at least, not until after you’ve joined an afterlife and presumably have a renewed sense of perspective about such things), there can be far fewer hard feelings. And if the trade-off for being honored is that you have to be dead and never get to meet the sweet little baby namesake, it no longer seems like such an enviable thing. And that’s the spin I’d put on it if I were you: “We wanted to honor our grandmothers who never got to meet our little girl.” Implication: The actual lucky people here are the ones who get to know the baby.
Then if you have another child and don’t use honor names, I would do so with the self-assurance of someone who trusts that all the family members understand how such things work: using an honor name, or two honor names, doesn’t mean the parents will now go through the entire family name by name, making sure they have enough children to cover every single person. Using two great-grandmother names in no way commits you to using the other two great-grandmother names, or to using the four great-grandfather names, or to using all four grandparent names. And it is a familiar practice to give honor names to the firstborn but not to subsequent children.
I do worry about making sure sibling names aren’t too similar, but I don’t worry at all about the middle names being too similar. If you wanted to name siblings Jane and James, I would feel those were too similar; for middle names, I don’t see it as an issue. From your list, my favorite is Forrest Alexander. Or I like Forrest Henry or Forrest Robert. Forrest Joseph, maybe? Or perhaps your husband’s middle name would work? Or do you have a brother or uncle or father or grandfather whose name would be nice? I hope for LOVE-love for a first name, but for the middle I like to find something serviceable: in this case, something to meet your preference of finding something more common to balance the first name, and perhaps something to mollify anyone who doesn’t like the name Forrest. The middle name would also be a good chance to use a name you like very much but don’t want to use as a first name for whatever reason (not a good sound with the surname, wrong style, etc.).
I think it can be reassuring in a bit of a backwards way to realize that no matter what you name your child, a significant portion of the population will think you have made a poor choice. I know you know this, since you mention not being able to please everyone, but I’m not sure it has FULLY sunk in. That is: NO MATTER WHAT you name this child, some people won’t like it. NO MATTER WHAT. Which is what leads us to the other half of the saying: You can’t please everyone, so you’ve got to please yourself. You will not catch Swistle saying that this means you should completely ignore all of society around you: the child will have to wear this name in that society, and so by “please yourself” I don’t mean “shrug off valid issues, such as whether Chicky McBawkBawk is a name that will please the child as much as it pleases us.” But if you have decided on the perfectly nice names Thelma and Forrest, and those are your favorite names, it’s not going to solve the “some people won’t like the names” problem to choose different names; it will only change which people don’t like them, and for what reasons.
My guess is that even if you get your share of negative reactions to the name, it won’t alter the way you feel about the name any more than ANY set of negative reactions would have altered the way you felt about ANY name. There is “Oh, like Forrest Gump?,” and there is the flat little “Oh” of someone so bored by the name they can hardly comment, and there is the “THAT’S an interesting name” of someone who feels incorrectly that they are doing an excellent job being tactful, and there is the “Oh, I know SO MANY of those!,” and there is the “…How did you come up with THAT?,” and there is the “Oh! Is that…a family name?,” and the “Oh, yes, that’s quite a popular choice these days!,” and so on. It’s not so much a matter of avoiding negative reactions; it’s more an issue of picking the ones you’d rather deal with—and of realizing that even a negative reaction is a fleeting thing, and no one truly deep-down cares if you use a name they don’t love, especially as the years (or in fact MINUTES) go by and they find other things to occupy their minds.
Thelma in particular may require a brief adjustment, because it’s so rare these days. It was last in the Top 50 back in the early 1900s, which makes me suspect it is getting to be time for a revival: the usual pattern is Popular Name, then Mom Name, then Grandma Name, then Great-Grandma Name, then back to Popular Name. I remember when the name Emma was such a surprise (and remember when Julia Roberts named her daughter Hazel?), and Emma was last in style in the late 1800s along with Cora and Clara and Grace and Ella; the early 1900s (Ruth, Hazel, Martha, Louise, Pearl) are next up.
You may especially encounter an initial resistance from older generations, since to them it may be an “old lady name”: names the current generation sees as Great-Grandma-or-older names, older generations would naturally see as Mom or Grandma names. Emma and Henry were recently “old lady / old man” names, and my parents are probably not the only ones of their generation who still think of the name Henry as somebody’s elderly great-uncle. I found that my first reaction to the name Thelma was neutral surprise (according to the archives, the name has come up on this blog only twice total, and this is one of those two times), and that the surprise quickly tilted positive: my inclination was to encourage you to use it, rather than to try to talk you out of it. And I think “She’s named for her great-grandmother” is an especially charming assist for those who have a little trouble with the transition to the next generation of names (as all of us likely will have, in our turn): honor names are always in their own category of fashion.
If you use Forrest, some people WILL make the association with Forrest Gump: I don’t think that’s avoidable. They will say, “Oh, like Forrest Gump!,” and you will say pleasantly, “Oh—no, we just liked the name,” and that will be the end of it. Later on, a few people will say “Run, Forrest, run!” when he is running, but they will not intend it meanly; they will feel they are making a funny reference to one of movies’ most beloved characters. The same is likely to happen with people informing him that life is like a box of chocolates. (It can be a little lesson to us all about avoiding saying the first joke/association that comes to one’s mind.) You might be able to reduce the association by spelling it Forest, giving it a nature connection instead, but many people will make the association anyway. If I were you, I would consider it part of the package deal of this name: if that element will drive you crazy, I would look for a different name; otherwise, every name has its own set of issues, and at least the association is a positive one. Thelma may have a similar issue with the movie Thelma and Louise.
Name update!
Hi Swistle,
Thank you for featuring my naming query! I was so excited when i saw it on your blog :)
Our little boy Forrest James arrived on 16th April 2015 at 07:57am by emergency caesarian weighing 9lb 7oz
We absolutely love his name and it suits him perfectly. We have had a few, “oh what an unusual name” or “oh as in Forrest Gump?” or “oh what made you think of that” but we just reply saying thank you we just liked the name.
Please find attached a picture of our gorgeous little man :)
From the H@rtleys :) xx
I don’t think it matters as much what other people may think of the name as how your child eventually feels about her name. If it’s a name that is way out sync with the time and place she is growing up, it could be a concern. To me, Thelma seems to fit that category. Baby Name Wizard says of Thelma: “This is the sort of soft, squishy name that’s currently off the fashion map. Thelma’s a rather nice example of the style, almost like an endearment, but still it’s a tough sell.” BNW suggests these sibling names for Thelma: Pauline, Verna, Bernice, Irma, Arlene, Fern; Duane, Willard, Herbert, Merle, Lester, Cyril. If most of those names aren’t among your favorites, then you might want to reconsider Thelma.
For you, Thelma is the name of a beloved grandmother; others most likely would not be on board with it. Most of all, Thelma doesn’t seem to fit in the current spectrum of names — just too old, fusty and out of style. Did Grandma Thelma have a middle name you could use instead? Or you could turn the name around and use Jane Thelma Hartley if you’re set on including Thelma in the name.
Nameberry suggests: “If you’re desperate to honor an ancestor named Thelma, think Thea instead.”
Origin of Thelma: Literary invention for a Norwegian character
Popularity: 23% this week.
Hmm, I’m confused.
I don’t think the letter writer was at all concerned about the perceived “datedness” of her meaningful choice. Her sole concern was not honoring a living relative. Why pile on extra negativity?
If she uses Thelma Jane as planned, I think Swistle’s reasoning is spot on. Using the deceased Grandmothers’ names is a solid reason. It’s sort of a sweet courtesy to honor those who died before they could be an active part of a child’s life. Sheila will understand, I think.
For what it’s worth, I like Thelma! I prefer it to the newly re-discovered Mabel. It’s soft but tough.
I also love Thelma! Let’s bring Thelma back, people!
(I also like Edna, but my husband will never ever go for it).
I get what you are saying but the letter writer IS very worried about negative impressions of one name, so I don’t think it is out of line to gently point out that, currently, Thelma is sufficiently out of style that it may also garner negative reactions. I would use it as a middle instead of a first, personally- also because Jane is so wonderful! But if the possible negative reactions won’t bother the OP, I don’t think the name is unusable like Chicky McBawkBawk.
I like Thelma, too. My first impression was of a very old-fashioned name. Then I pictured a one-year-old with wispy hair named “Thelma,” and my thought was that it works. I think it’s come around the hundred-year cycle.
I like the sound of For(r)est Evander.
I like Thelma! (And I fully expect a lot of people NOT to, and well, screw ’em. They get to name their own kids.) Also, it’s a lot harder to express dislike of a name once it’s on a kid, and then if people do say something about it, well. I wouldn’t have a lot of kind words to say to someone who tells a kid’s mother or father that they hate what they named their adorable (!) squishy (!) newborn baby. I think a baby Thelma is sweet and maybe it’s that I live in a very urban area with a lot of hipsters around, but it would totally not surprise me on a kiddo at all.
I also like Forrest and I like it with James and it wouldn’t bother me to have a Forrest James and a Thelma Jane, but if it does, you can always change the middle name of the next kid assuming you would even want to use Forrest (James) or Thelma (Jane) for a future sibling.
When we were considering an unpopular name for our last son, it helped me to take a step back and think of him with another name. Our perfectly fine number 2 name. I pictured calling my baby this name for his whole life and evaluated my feelings. My feeling of regret over not using the name we really wanted made a solid decision for me. I think if you like Forrest, you should use it.
Chicky McBawkBawk: smile.
Adding to not-so-secret baby name list now…
I love Thelma Jane! I can just picture her playing with my Esther. I also love Forrest James – I agree that the middle spot is fine that they’re close. Also remember that sometimes the names you have picked out for this baby, even unused ones might not be THE name for the next pregnancy.
I think Forrest Gump is going to be a generational connection. There are going to be some people our age and older who will make it, but not really younger. Forrest fits in well with the Hunters and Foxes that will be in his class.
If you feel that people’s negative reactions will change your opinion of a name you love, don’t reveal the name until the baby is born. I had people make faces and go, “ugh!” when I told them our son’s name was going to be Sawyer. But if you present the name with a beautiful, darling face to go with it, people’s split reaction associations seem to disappear. That, or if they choose to still comment negatively on the name, they’re just flat out rude. We also got, “Oh, like off Lost?” “Nope, we just like the name.” We got that maybe three times the first couple weeks, but it hasn’t been an issue since.
Go with your gut. Yes, I thought of Forrest Gump and Thelma and Louise but it was short lived. As soon as people meet your children those associations will fade. I did also think of actor Forest Whitaker and think if you spell it Forest it will put a different spin on it. His mn is Steven btw and I like the contrast of off the beaten path with a classic tried and true middle name, especially James. I think Jane is a wonderful middle name and gives her a connection to her sibling without being matchy. Good luck!
I agree with Swistle that Thelma Jane and Forrest Alexander are perfect! I particularly like Alexander from your middle name list, because I feel it would appease your family members that like “regal” names.
Yes, Thelma is particularly unexpected, but in a good way. I would much, much rather meet a baby Thelma these days (even if it’s “out of style”) than meet a Mackynzee (which is completely in style, unfortunately). Plus, Mackynzee will be dated soon and Thelma will be coming around again. Your Thelma will just be ahead of the curve!
We have chosen honor names for our children as well, except only in the middle place. Most of them are not “in style”, nor necessarily OUR style. But we decided this: we would never regret GIVING our children honor names, but we very well may regret NOT giving them honor names. I wonder if that logic would help soothe you. Wouldn’t you regret not using your favorite names much more than you’d regret giving them a name not EVERYONE loves?
Honestly, the only persons whose opinions should matter (besides you and your husbands) are your future childs. While it is impossible to know what a future child will think of his or her name (and it may be different at different times in their life), we can make some educated guesses.
Your little Thelma would fit in fine in world where Iris, Hazel, Louise, Veda, Betty, and Edith are all names I have heard on little ones lately. While her name will clearly fit into one category that is popular now (vintage, great-grandmother names), it won’t stand out as particularly odd. And it is not one of the potentially over done vintage names that might mean she would know several others with the same name in her peer group (Evelyn, Vivian, etc). There is flexibility to the name. If your daughter feels she needs to be called something more trendy or hip at some point, Thea as a nickname would fit the bill. And I expect at some point your daughter will appreciate the family roots that her name speaks to, especially if she knows the story why it was chosen.
I think your son will like the strength and of his name and will not care a whit about a movie that came out long before he was born. As someone out, his name fits well with the nature names and surnames styles that many use today (Archer, Hunter, Saywer, etc). Forrest is a name that I can see on judge, a doctor, or an athlete so iit would not limit your son in anyway.
Ultimately, I think both your choices are very sound. Thelma Jane is lovely and while I like Forrest James, I also think Forrest Alexander sounds great.
It’s always interesting to see how different people’s opinions are on the unusual-ness of a name. I wouldn’t peg Forrest as being unusual at all, I knew several Forrests growing up and know at least two in the five and under age group right now.
I agree with Swistle that the similarity of Jane and James isn’t an issue if they are both being used as middle names.
I agree that the public’s and ultimately your child’s take on his or her name will depend largely on where you live. If off the beaten path vintage revival names are popular where you live, Thelma will be fine. In my neck of the woods, where boy names all seem to rhyme with Aidan or are Old Testament revivals, and girl names are mostly the in style classics (Emma, Charlotte, Sophia, Isabella/e) or surnames, a Thelma would be more of a shock.
My second son, now 8 months, is named Forrest Benjamin and I have had such wonderful responses to his name. It was a loose tribute to a family history in the forestry industry and the middle name is an honour name for a deceased grandfather. We had a very small number of comments about Forrest Gump within the first couple weeks after he was born but now he is the reference point for Forrest for many people. I also agree that the connection will be totally generational – his older cousins have little to no connection to that movie. We love his name and I think it is just a wonderful choice :) I also love Thelma – my first choice if we had a girl was Alma which I think has a similar feel :)
For what it’s worth, I have a good friend who named her son Forrest, and 6 months into knowing the baby, every time I say or hear it, I can’t help but think of Nathaniel Bedford Forrest, who was the founder of the Klu Klux Klan. I think people of color are MUCH more aware of this link than people who are of Caucasian descent,for what it’s worth. I know for my husband and myself (and many of our friends), anytime we hear the name we wonder if the family who named their son “Forrest” chose it despite or because of the association (he was also a famous Confederate general). The beginning of Forrest Gump the movie actually goes over this history too – the character Forrest Gump was actually named for that general. It’s so unfortunate but I do think there’s an unavoidable association.To my mind it can be fixed entirely by taking the extra “r” out, so it’s clear the baby is named for a forest and not a Forrest.
I’ve been trying and TRYING to get into the name because I love our friends and I know in my heart they never ever would want their sweet child’s name to be associated with such a terrible man, but I’m still not quite there. Maybe as the little one gets older and is talking and walking and playing I’ll have enough associations with him that the original association will fade. I do feel compelled to give you the heads up that for some of us, the name is associated with people who are (or at least might be until we get to know them well enough to know better) comfortable with a certain racist worldview.
This was my immediate connection, too, with Forrest. It sucks, because the name itself is lovely, but yeah, I thought of the KKK founder right off.
I was just going to come here to say this, and caution that if you use Forrest, don’t do a middle name of Nathan.
Honestly this is absolutely the first association I have with this name.
You have eloquently stated the discomfort I have with the name Forrest, so I will just say that I agree.
However, I LOVE Thelma Jane. I’m actually caught off guard by how refreshing Thelma sounds, and I love that she could go by TJ if she ends up being a little tomboy. Plus the family connection is wonderful. How lucky that the names of grandmothers in two different families go together so well!
After thinking this over, I would like to amend my agreement to say that I would not assume somebody naming their baby Forrest would be likely to have a racist worldview (unless there was other evidence to support that idea), but I would make the unpleasant association with the movie Forrest Gump (which, admittedly, I didn’t care for) and the Nathaniel Bedford Forrest connection. So it’s kind of like if somebody named their baby Sanders, I would immediately think of fried chicken but I would not necessarily assume the name was given as an homage to the venerable founder of KFC.
Wow! I had no idea about this connection with the name Forrest and was going to weigh in that I liked it, but this information has swayed me. I’ve always thought of it as more of a hippie name, but now knowing this history, it taints it for me. I would never want to give my child a name that someone might assume I had given them to honor a racist. Thanks for the education!
Having grown up in the south this was also my first association with the name Forrest, but I don’t think it makes the name unusable, just a good point to be aware of. The name and word forest dilute the association. I hate to be a downer, but this would be important to me to know.
As for Thelma, I think it is great, and agree that it is due for a revival. What a great combo of honor names: Thelma Jane. I used to have a friend we called T.Jane.
I am probably swayed because Forrest is a family name in my family, but I can say with quite a bit of certainty that the world is full of Forrests who are not named after the Confederate general…just like its full of Grants and Lees. Forrest is a surname that goes back to Jamestown, so inevitably there are many of them throughout history. I suppose you could argue that, like Hitler, one man ruined the name for all time…but I think you’re better off not making ugly assumptions about the provenance of baby’s names.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Forrest_%28colonist%29
I didn’t read the original comment about NB Forrest as casing ugly aspersions as much as pointing out a unavoidable association. If you name your kid Forrest for a family member, way less people will pick up on that than the NB Forrest connection – and there are PLENTY of folks out there who still think NB was a swell guy, just google him.
Seems like a very relevant point to bring up in baby naming. My last name is associated with a South African family famous for their participation in apartheid – and therefore we have a whole SLEW of first names we can’t use due to historical associations. Sucks, but better than giving your kid a name that links them to someone terrible, even if that’s not the intent.
I agree, the commenter doesn’t imply that these parents have any bad intentions whatsoever in considering the name Forrest, which I think is really important to remember. But I also think its worth pointing out that someone who assumes that parents of boys named Forrest had bad intentions is going to be wrong a lot of the time, and I think that being wrong should matter to them & maybe make them consider ditching their assumptions as un-useful. This is a name that has been in the top 500 for most of the last century; there are tens of thousands of men with this name. It’s not going anywhere (except further and further away from its Civil War connotations).
The negative connotation is with the name Forrest, not the parental intent. A lot of people out there still do name children after NB Forrest (and he is the second entry when you Google the word Forrest.). A lot of people will assume that he is named after NB Forrest. Some of those people will approve of the association, some of them will not. Nameberry even references NBF in their Forrest entry. The association is still mighty strong.
This reminds me of the post and discussion around the name Cohen.
Forrest seems to me versatile and not overly used; nice choice. Thelma makes me think of Thelma from the Jeffersons which only dates me. While I see you have gotten a fair amount of reassuring replies-I’m more w/ Patricia’s post above (tho I didn’t find it at all unkind). I am someone who changed her own first name in young adulthood (having used my new chosen name for a year prior to making the legal change). I found it uncomfortable to be ‘Ruth’ while knee deep in Jessicas, Lauras, Kims, Dawns, Karens, Lisas, Dianes, Christines, Tracys, Debbies, Micheles, Pattis, Amys, Melissas, Andreas, Pams, Carolyns, etc, etc!! I don’t in any way mean to be unkind about your thought process or who you hope to honor. Just trying to be candid that it can be uncomfortable for a child to have a name in a style very different from their peers. I loved my sister’s name (Samantha, 6 years younger) and my parent’s other choice for me had been Beth, which would’ve been in my comfort zone. I hope this explanation has been of help to you, as you do seem to be seeking feedback. A nice compromise might be ‘Thora in honor of our grandmother Thelma’. Best wishes to you and your family!
I certainly didn’t mean for my post to be unkind, but wanted to give feedback to the OP:
“We think we have settled on names for both boy and girl, but I keep having doubts about whether people will like them (I know we can’t please everyone) but I am worrying about peoples negative responses.”
I happen to think there will be some resistance to Thelma, whether openly stated within the parents’ hearing (most likely not unless it’s a very close relative) or not. My comments were based on that and also the opinions of two very well-known and respected baby name sources, the authors of Baby Name Wizard and Nameberry. Also, I have a similar naming situation in my extended family with a “vintage” name (others would just say “old” name), and yes, there have been questions of “why did they name her ________?” The mother of this baby girl worked in nursing homes when she was younger and her list of favorite names, especially for girls, reflects that. I don’t think the mother ever cared that much if others like the name or not. ( I myself have never been a fan of this name, and while the baby (now about 18 months) is darling, that really hasn’t made me love the name.)
I’ve found the general public not as “forward thinking” as many on baby name boards are. Impressions of certain names can also be generational, with younger people sometimes having an entirely new take on a name that older family members feel less than positive about. This doesn’t mean the parents shouldn’t go ahead with the name. But they are “worrying about peoples’ negative responses” and, openly and honestly, I think that will happen, although most likely if they wait to announce the name until baby Thelma is born, I doubt that they will *hear* many negative responses.
Well now I just really want to know the name of that baby you are talking about!
Patricia, I really didn’t mean to come across as jumping down your throat on that one! I was just worried about dissuading her from a name she has a personal connection to. It was a pre-coffee response fueled largely by my own love of the name Gertrude ;) (pretty universally disliked but very meaningful to me!) I didn’t read the “worried about people’s responses” as broadly, but it’s a valid point.
I would stick with Thelma Jane and Forrest because those are the names you really love. For a middle, I like Alexander, Gabriel, and Sebastian from your list.
As to Forrest: having read Anonforthisone and Helena’s responses above, I’d spell it with one R, but apart from that I think it’s a great choice – unusual but familiar. I really like it with Evander – Forest Evander H@rtley is awesome. (Really, I’d like it with any of the middle names you mention.)
I feel the same way as Leah does about Thelma. My name (not my username here) was much more popular in a previous generation than it was in mine, and I felt really alienated and uncomfortable because of it in the same way as Leah describes. My grandmother’s name is one of the names that Patricia lists as BNW’s sibling suggestions to go with Thelma, and although my grandmother is one of my very favourite people, I would not use her name as my hypothetical daughter’s first name – I’d put it in the middle name spot, or use her middle name, maiden name, or surname somewhere. I know it’s a totally personal preference – just wanted to share my thoughts since this is an issue I’ve thought about a lot. I would much prefer to see Thea or Thora than Thelma itself.
Patricia’s suggestion of Jane Thelma H@rtley sounds lovely, and I feel that Jane is a more timeless, versatile name. Both Thelma and Jane would have been popular in the early 1900s, but I know I’ve seen and heard Jane a ton more than Thelma in the meantime, so it feels like a classic name rather than a name from a particular generation.
Sheila comes from the name Celia – Celia Jane H@rtley would be very nice, too.
Also, I’ve got to say that I’ve ADORED Emerald from your longer list for years now. I can never use it myself because it clashes with the surname, but I would seriously love to see it get more use. Emerald Thelma Jane H@rtley would be stunning, and if she didn’t love her unusual name, she could go by Em, Emmy, Emer, or Emma. And Emerald and Forest feel really complementary together as siblings and yet don’t sound too matchy.
I hope that I didn’t come off as unkind about the name you’ve selected – I fully respect the process that got you to it, I just wanted to explain my perspective as a person whose name made them uncomfortable in the same way as I fear Thelma’s could for her. Best of luck to you!
I really enjoy the name Thelma. It was a pleasant surprise to see that name mentioned. I think Thelma Jane is an absolutely adorable name and you should stick with it.
I’m waffling a bit on Forrest. I immediately think of Forrest Gump, and after reading the post about the leader of the KKK, I’d be more hesitant to use the name. I don’t think grandparents’ potential reactions should enter into the equation; it should be a name that you and your husband like. Would you consider moving Kip to a first name slot? I think that’s a fantastic name as well, and I think it pairs well with Thelma. Here are some other ideas for a boy:
Conrad
Daniel
Theodore
Lionel
Samuel
Ephram
Seamus
I have a friend (he’s 25 years old) named Forrest, and I think it’s great…it’s uncommon yet familiar, at least in the South where we live. I’ve never made the Nathan Bedford Forrest connection, and I grew up near the city where he was born.
I’ve never encountered a Thelma. I would bet that she will be in a kindergarten class with a bunch of Hazels, Viviennes, etc, thought, which should help her feel confident about her name. You could always name her Jane Thelma and call her Thelma. If she got to school with a bunch of Maddys and Emilys, she could always decide to go by Jane everywhere else but her family could still call her Thelma. My middle name is Louise, which is from around the same time period as Thelma. I never went by that name in school or anything, but it was kinda fun that my family liked to call me some variation of that name….I am a huge fan of using family names but think it’s good to balance it with a more current name for the sake of the kid.
I think you’re in a little bit of a tough spot, and I empathize with you. Let us know what you choose! Good luck!
I have a son with an out of style name (Robert, called Robert), and the response I always get is: Oh is that a family name? But like Thelma for you, it is a family name. Robert is named for my deceased grandfather. I love the connection to someone deeply important in my life, and I feel like it makes my grandfather(s) present to my son (his middle name is for my other grandfather.)
All this to say, 1. I don’t think people will be too resistant, but they probably will say something about Thelma, and you can answer honestly or give them the side eye. 2. The comments will be oblique enough that you will probably be able to simply answer and take them as you want them to be rather than as they are meant. Which is to say, you asked me whether my son’s name is a family name because you think it is ugly and out of style. You asking made me think about my beloved grandfather for whom my son is named. I am indebted to you.
On Forrest, I noted above in response to anonfornow, but I honestly cannot get passed Nathan Bedford Forrest on that name, and would feel similarly to anon when being introduced to a baby Forrest. If I had named a child Forrest, I think I would constantly be saying, Forest like the trees, not Forrest who started the Klan, which is a tough way to introduce a kid. You may not think the connection is all that clear however, and if you don’t make that connection, I would think it is a nice name. It was somewhat reassuring to hear from someone in the south that the connection is somewhat dilute even near to Forrest’s home town. Ideally it will get dilute enough that someday there are many different associations to drown out the bad ones.
I just named my baby Clover and the reactions have been mixed to say the least. But . . . many people didn’t like my daughter Miriam’s name, and even more hated my daughter Harriet’s name. Only my daughter Emeline has avoided mass disapproval. On the flip side, many people have loved my daughters’ names. My point? Swistle is right. You just can’t make everyone happy.
As for Thelma–it feels totally ahead of the trend. Excellent. Forrest is a family name and I love it. I realize there are negative associations with the KKK guy, but there are negative connections with so many names that I wouldn’t let that stop you. Most people have known a person named Forrest. If the KKK guy’s name was a one use only like Oprah, I’d be more worried about it.
Go with your gut. Love your choices! Avoid name regret!
I meant to say that with my daughter Emeline’s name, I don’t deal with people not liking it but instead deal with mispronunciation. It is pronounced “line” at the end but I constantly have people assume it is “leen” or “lyn.” You can’t win!!
I think Jane Thelma sounds great with your last name. Thelma as a first name is a little too vintage for me, though it is growing on me. Theresa, Thea, Theodora, Dorothea, or Althea sound more modern to me. But if you love Thelma Jane, I say go for it! I also love Emerald Jane for you.
I’m sorry to say, but all I can think of with Forrest is Forrest Gump, which would bother me if I were a kid. I think it’s perfect for the middle name spot, though, especially spelled Forest. James Forest sounds great, though that would rule out Jane as a first name for a girl. From your list, I also like Sebastian and Soloman. Would you like Thomas (which could also honor your husband’s grandmother) as a middle name? Best of luck to you!
There is a character named Thelma in the Francis book series that my children love. Thats the only Thelma I know, and I would be hesitant to use it quite yet. I like Enid off your list much more, or even Alma or Mabel as suggested. Maybe by your third child Thelma won’t be such a stretch…. that said, its your baby to name and its quite possible she could have the personality to pull the name off with great aplomb!
I have a name that was at its peak 30 years before I was born (#6 in the 1940s) and I grew up as someone with a Fussy, Old-lady, “mom” name. I did not like that much. But I don’t see this happening with Thelma, since it peaked in the 1910s. Older people will see it as an outdated and older name, but I think she will be right on trend.
I really like your name choices. I know a Forrest and didn’t even think of Forrest Gump until you mentioned it (which seems kind of silly in retrospect). In regards to the Forrest mentioned above, I’ve never heard of him or was aware of that fact, I might consider changing the spelling to one “r” just to take a further step away from that. I like Forest James. My daughter’s name is Juliet and she just started formal schooling this year and has no idea who Romeo is…it just doesn’t come up that often. I’ve had a short explanation ready for years now in case some one asks her to explain to her and no one has.
Thelma is an interesting choice and I like Thelma Jane. My family isn’t particularly crazy about my second daughter’s name, but after a few awkward comments when she was first born they have tactfully kept other things to themselves. My daughter is three now and they have settled on nicknames or pet names that are comfortable for them and that is fine with me, no reason to make a fuss. You will have a baby and dozens of other things to worry about, name her what you and your husband like and try to let the rest roll off!
I feel the need to comment on this, only to balance out some of the disapproval for “Thelma.” I never would have come up with it, but I love it! I can just picture an adventurous little Thelma, or a dainty little Thelma, or a someday lawyer Thelma. Precious!
Thelma Jane: brilliant, confident, friend to all
Forrest Evander: masculine, thoughtful, decisive
Great taste in names! You’ve nailed it; now just own it. The mild anxiety you are experiencing comes from naming your first child, but take heart that you are doing well!
Best wishes and please keep us up to date when your little one arrives!
I myself strongly prefer Jane Thelma rather than Thelma Jane, but then, I have come around toHazel and Henry despite strong “old people name” associations with both. Eh, can’t wrap my head around Thelma.. I keep rrying to imagine a cool teenage Thelma, and falling short.
Forrest, now, Forrest I can get behind. I find the association with the Klan founder interesting, because the reference I hear is to Forest Whittaker, and I would have spelled his name with 2 r’s before this conversation. It would not be a deal breaker for me, honestly, and I wpuld keep the double r.
I love Forest Alexander with your surname. I would drop the second “r” to avoid negative name associations.
I actually love Thelma Jane. I think it’s unexpected and sounds surprisingly fresh to my ears. I have no trouble at all picturing a little girl named Thelma. The nickname Thea has been mentioned, but I also think Elle would work too. Love the idea of TJ for a tomboy! I think it is a really lovely choice, especially as an honor name.
Lavender and Emerald are interesting choices. I don’t know if I would pair either of those with Forest since they are all colors: Emerald and Forest green.
My oldest son has a much loved and timeless name that is a family name on both sides. There were still people who didn’t like it-my husband’s side didn’t like that we were using a nickname at all, my side didn’t like/thought it weird that his nickname was only used occasionally. They got over it.
My youngest son has a name that is firmly in “old man” territory. From stranger’s I often get the “Oh! Is that a family name?” My grandmother liked it (it was her grandfather’s name) but everyone else on my side hated it. My side was at least polite enough not to complain too much. My husband’s family hated it & were much less polite about it. My MIL refused to use his name at all for about the first 6 months, she and my SIL begged me to let him go by his middle name, etc. But, they got over it.
I share this with the intent of emphasizing that Swistle is right. Some people won’t like the name and this is true when the name is super popular (top 10) or very uncommon. Some people just like to complain. But in the end, they all get over it. The name becomes the kid and everyone moves on. Use the names you love. FWIW, I like both Thelma and Forrest (though I also really like the nature connection of Forest).
I like Thelma and I like Forest (one R) but not on siblings. They don’t seem to match. If Thelma didn’t like her name one day I think having a sibling with such a different style would make it worse. Esp when I look at the other girl names you like. Imagine sisters Emerald and Thelma vs Thelma and Enid. What about James Forest? Or Jane and Forest? I’d spend a little time thinking about other sibling names before I committed.
All that being said if you stick to honor names you are in a better spot if kids feel unevenly named in the future. We named you after people we loved, style be damned!
As the above commenter stated, it does seem that the LW has a wide range of styles on her list. Which is fine, as long as she realizes it!
For example, the gender benders (Deryn for a girl, and Malory for a boy) are quite different from the vintage revivals Thelma, Enid, Jane, Morris, James, and Sylvie. A third category on her list seems to be “nature-y” names: Lavender, Forrest, Emerald. And percentage-wise, many more of her boy names are “common” than are her girl names, ie. half of her boy names are in the top 100, while only one (or two) of the girl names are.
And I just have to say: Enid! It’s in my top 3, and I just adore it, but have never heard it on another child!
First time commenting just to encourage you to use Thelma! I love it. What a sweet spot: vintage feeling, unique but not hard to spell or pronounce. Also, it approaches the “-ella” sound that’s so familiar these days. I bet that makes it a little more approachable, even sub-consciously, than, for example, Enid.
Also, guessing from “honour” that the letter writer may be from the UK or Canada? In which case, Forrest Gump and the KKK founder are much more distant associations. I wouldn’t use it, as an American (and if you recall, if people think about Forrest Gump the movie, they may remember that the character says he was named after the confederate general, thus taking them to that association quicker than you might expect). But there it may be different.
I love Thelma Jane and I think it’s perfectly appropriate for a baby born this decade. To me it sounds old-is-new-again trendy, in an up-and-coming but not overused sort of way. It likely will never be a top 20 name, but that’s not what you are looking for anyway. The fact that it honors both sides of the family makes it even better.
I also agree with Swistle about honoring only the deceased. It’s a common practice in a lot of cultures (including my own family), prevents any hurt feelings, and avoids the confusion of having several people with the same name in the family. BUT, if you say that is what you are doing with baby #1, don’t go naming baby #2 after a living family member or there will be many more hurt feelings.
I have also experienced the “wrong name for the generation” pain, being a Deborah born in the 80s. All of my friends had moms named Debbie (usually from Debra, ugh). I was actually jealous of all of those Jennifers as a kid. But that, and what Leah/Ruth and Calla described, is different. We all had mom or grandma names, which is very difficult for a child. Thelma is more of a great- or great-great-grandma name, so there will be very few older ladies still wearing it. It also sounds similar to other names this generation – Thea, Emma, Ella, Layla, Tessa, etc. I don’t think you have to worry at all about her not fitting in.
As for your boys names…. I’m not a fan of Forrest/Forest, mostly because I don’t like noun and verb names much. It creates a visual association that has nothing to do with his personality. That being said, this isn’t my kid, and if you love it I do think you should use it. If it makes you nervous, put it in the middle spot. You can always try it out as a call name, and if you don’t like it go back to the official first name. From your list, I like Zeke and Morris. Morris actually sounds quite a bit like Forrest, but I think it’s a lot more versatile and is the perfect sibling to Thelma. If you don’t like Zeke with your last name, maybe Zane? I just wouldn’t use it with James because it’s too rhyming.
And speaking of James, it makes a lovely first or middle name, and does honor your grandfather even though it wasn’t his given name. I think you could really use any “J” name as an honor name for him. Also, it could be fun for all of your kids to have “J” middle names if it works out that way.
One last thing about honor names… If you give one to one kid, I think it’s best to give at least one honor name slot to all kids. The worst part about being a Deborah in the 80s (with an equally dated middle) was that there was no reason for it other than that my parents liked it, whereas my sister had an honor name. I know I would have liked my name a lot better if it had a connection to someone special, or perhaps I would have gone by my middle if it were an honor name. Instead I was jealous of my sister for having a better name than me AND an honor name. You don’t know which name will go over better with the kids, but you can at least be fair about the honors.
I agree with all of this about Thelma. I think to this generation of kids, it’ll sound similar to all the Ellas and Elsas and Emmas without being overused. And I actually think most of your names go together as siblings just fine. Thelma (and Forrest, but I am ready to shut up about Forrest) last peaked in popularity in the 1910s, when parents were being very inventive with names.
1. I just read your letter carefully and it looks like you didn’t ask for opinions about Thelma as a name, so I don’t need to share mine–but to the extent that some people have already provided theirs, and will continue to do so throughout her life, I’d like to point out that Thelma doesn’t seem like the kind of name that’s unlikable for a reason that will harm your child. By contrast, if you gave her something with a misleading spelling or a negative association–something that would make her life a little more difficult–and did so knowingly, that would be a little bit cruel; but this is the kind of name where people who don’t like it will simply say “Not my style” and move on. I’d be hesitant to use a name in the first category, but don’t think you should worry about using one in the latter category. She’ll be fine, and the name will be special to you, and likely to her as well.
2. But…I put Forrest (with two Rs) in the former category. Forest, with a single R, is a noun name, and I think it works fine. But when you add a double R, taking away its noun meaning, you’re taking ownership of all the meanings that relate to the double-R spelling–and that includes both Nathan Bedford Forrest AND Forrest Gump (who was named after him; this cannot be denied!). As a person of color (or otherwise, I should hope), I would be very, very disappointed in a friend who used this name knowing it had such ugly, painful associations for so many people, some of whom my son would meet throughout his life.
Not every person of color will share my opinion, of course, but for the sake of discussion, I’d react to this about the same way I’d react if I found out a friend were going to give her baby the initials KKK (unintentionally). I’d point it out to her and ask whether she’d thought of the association. If yes, obviously a problem. If no, and if she didn’t then decide to change it, still a problem–“I haven’t been negatively affected by institutional racism so it doesn’t bother me to use a name that others will associate with it” is a viewpoint many would find offensive. Now that you know the association some will make with the name, you are no longer able to choose it innocent of that fact; you have to decide whether you’re okay with the assumptions people will make about your choice (either that you are openly honoring General Forrest or that you don’t feel personally bothered by the context).
(And “So many others use it, so it seems okay”/”The KKK isn’t relevant today” also don’t work for me–the KKK still exists, maintains a presence all throughout America, etc.; there absolutely ARE people who use the name Forrest to pay subtle tribute that they know will escape many people’s radars.)
Hello again-it has since occurred to me if you plan to use Forest at some point for a possible future son, than Thora as an alternative from Thelma would be too rhymey for some’s taste. I’ve liked the Jane Thelma option some have raised. While I see the appeal of Hazel, Violet, Mable, Maude, Harriet, Louise, Beatrice – Thelma sounds to me in a different category, more along the lines of Edna, Lois, Ida, Ursula-all fine names but for a different taste. My niece is named Lilith which has been a lovely variation from Lillian or Lily alone. Thelma also seems very different from Forest should you opt to use them both should you have children of each gender. Finding it difficult to think of calling Thelma the teenager as another commenter mentioned rang true for me, too. Maybe it’s just right for your family though? That’s all that really matters. And my parents eventually got over my decision to change my name, though it stung a bit, I know. It was by no means a light decision. Good luck to you!
While Thelma might not work with other middle names, I think Thelma Jane is awesome.
I also like For(r)est quite a bit. My first association is with Forrest Whittaker, who, for some reason, I associate with positively. If you are not in the US, I doubt anyone would even think of the KKK association; it falls under “random fact” and not obvious problem in my opinion. If you are in the US, it might be worthwhile giving the KKK connection some consideration, or selecting the Forest spelling. As others have noted, Forest Alexander is a really nice name for a boy or a man.
I haven’t had a chance to read through the other replies, but wanted to say that among my first thoughts is that Thelma seems to be an outlier in the group of girl names you like. I don’t foresee a sibling set of, for example, Thelma and Jerrica. Although I do think Marcella and Thelma seem a likelier pair. I wouldn’t rule out Thelma on that alone, but I think it’s important for you to look at since you’re setting a style precedent. :)
As for Forrest, I love it. I don’t think you’ll encounter much resistance, but you’re sure to get “Run, Forrest, run!” when baby starts walking. Don’t let it bother you- it’s a great name, and that’s just a familiar cultural reference at this point. I think using James does honor your grandparent, even though his name was Jim. And it doesn’t bother me at all if you use Jane as a middle for a girl and James as a middle for a boy. Hardly anyone will know their middle names, anyway!
Use the names you love. Once they’re pinned on a little person, everyone will come around. :)
P.S. Now that I’ve read some comments, I see the references to a KKK Forrest, and I’ve never known about him. I still don’t know who he is. And I grew up in an area with a somewhat active KKK group.
I had similar hesitation on how people would react to my daughter’s name. Honestly, all of her family members find a reason to love it because it was introduced to them along with an adorable baby. (Eg my very formal, conservative grandmother says “it was Princess Anne’s daughter’s name!”) We do occasionally get the “is that a family name?” – bonus you can say yes! And, “that’s interesting” … But that comes from acquaintances and frankly I have opinions of their kids’ names.
In short, go with what you love (Thelma, Forrest). I think the names we envision for our children inevitably grow into their personalities. Zara is everything I thought her name implied, and then some ;)
I have an honor name that has never been in the top anything but is also (and completely unrelated to my family) the name of a famous foreign leader. So, for most of my life, I’ve been asked, oh are you named after ____? I just say no, it’s a family name. I’ve never particularly liked my name but my mom loved the person so much that I never could disrespect that and ask to be called something else. Plus I have no idea what else I would want to be called. Swistle could do some “rename me” blog posts for people who don’t like their names! ;)
I love the name Thelma! In case you want to spin it as a name you love, rather than an honor name, here’s my experience with that.
My husband and I decided to name our son Arthur. After we made the decision, but before he was born, I discovered that my husband’s great-grandfather and great-uncle are named Arthur. We tell anyone who asks that it is not after an ancestor on purpose, but it is a fortuitous coincidence.