I’m 34 weeks along now, with baby #5 (due 1/3/15). Our boys are Urban, Charles, Levi, and Matthias. Gender of Baby #5 is unknown. Our last name is like SEE-wald (without the S). I’m Kim, and my husband is Brian.
If the baby is a boy, he’ll be Thomas. We haven’t settled on a middle name yet. I’m leaning towards using my mom’s maiden name (Larson) because we’ve managed to honor all our parents EXCEPT my mom with our other boys’ names. My husband, however, is insisting that we should just use her first name, Lynn, because (he says), “Lynn is really a boys’ name.” I say it USED to be a boy name but it is now very much in the girl name camp, and there isn’t any good reason to saddle our kid with a feminine-sounding middle name, especially when Larson is a perfectly respectable name on its own. What do you and your readers think? Am I right that Lynn is too feminine for a boy, even as a middle name?
As far as possible girl names, I finally got my husband to talk about the whole subject and make his own list. What a depressing exercise THAT was. I had so many lovely names I liked, and he has rejected nearly all of them, including my two favorites (Amy and Noelle). Let me show you his list:
*Theresa (nickname Tess or Tessa)
*Natalia – I like this for the Christmas connection, but it sounds too “foreign” to me; also, my best friend has a little girl named Natalie, so unless I loved this name to pieces, I would not go for it
*Georgia
*Isolde
*Margaret (probable nickname Greta) – also on my list, but I don’t know if I love it
*Marigold – also on my list, but I have a hard time picturing it on a real live person
*Amaryllis (possible nickname Rilla) – also on my list, but ditto what I said about Marigold, above; Amaryllis flowers are usually forced to bloom indoors in winter at Christmastime, though, so I do like that connection a lot
*Marietta (nickname Etta) – not on my own list, but I like it enough to consider
*Lucille (nickname Lucy) – LUCIA is on my list, for the saint whose feast day Scandinavians celebrate on December 13th (I’m part Swedish), but he likes Lucille better; I think Lucille sounds horrible with our last name
*Hannah – ANNA is on my list, but he likes Hannah better. I have at least FIVE good reasons why I prefer Anna over Hannah (though I don’t dislike Hannah at all)
*Esther
*Naomi – nice name, but with our last name it’s WAY too many vowels
My husband is also perfectly willing to use Irene or Helen (two of our grandmothers’ names) for a first name. I’m not a fan of Helen or any of its variations/derivatives, but I don’t know if I like Irene enough to use it for a first name. So I’m mostly thinking of these two names (and my mom’s name, Lynn) as potential middles.
It would be nice if everyone in our family had their own first initial, but if we did this, it would eliminate anything starting with M or L. If I strike out the names on Brian’s list that I don’t care for, that leaves us with …
Amaryllis
Hannah or Anna
Esther
I wish I was excited about one of these names, but I’m not. So maybe the “every man his own initial” preference needs to go out the window. Still, I find myself so unenthusiastic about our list. Why is that? Is it because this is probably our last baby (due to age – I’m 41)? Is it because IF the baby is a girl, she will be the only one, and I’ve set myself up to think her name needs to be something EXTRA SUPER SPECIAL and there just isn’t any one name that’s going to fit the bill? Is it just pregnancy hormones making me so desperate/depressed over this topic?
The other day I suggested Phillipa, which I LOVE, but Brian has rejected that, too. My trouble is, I have strong, positive associations with every name I like. I have REASONS for liking the names I like. My husband will reject or like a name without giving any REASONS for his preferences. How am I supposed to get on board with any of the names he prefers if he won’t tell me why he likes them? And then, too, I kind of get my feelings hurt when I tell him all the reasons I love a certain name and then he flat-out rejects it.
Truthfully, Swistle, I’ve been finding myself angry and resentful a lot when considering this whole “what to name the baby” dilemma. I know that’s terrible; naming a child should be a great joy! But other than our second son, Charlie, who basically got his name by default (grandpa names), my husband has named ALL our kids. He’s gotten HIS way EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. And I love our boys’ names – I do. But I feel like it’s MY TURN and like he should KNOW THAT and SAY THAT and be ACCOMMODATING TO THAT. I agree that both parents should assent to a name; I would not name our baby anything he truly hated. But I have this awful, sinking feeling that he is going to stubbornly cling to his own preferences and persist in rejecting every name I truly love, so that our boy will end up with a girly middle name or our girl will end up with a name I feel just ambivalent about.
Sorry for the long ramble. Can you help me get some perspective, Swistle, please oh please?
~ Kimberly
Name update!
Hi Swistle!
I wrote to you about three months ago for advice on naming my fifth child. Guess what? We had a Christmas baby! Born at 11 p.m. on 12/25/2014. Another little boy, of course! 6 pounds, 2 ounces, and 19-3/4 inches long. We named him Thomas Larson. I’m attaching a recent picture. He had to spend 19 days in the hospital due to some unforeseen medical issues, but he is doing wonderfully now, and his big brothers all love him to pieces (his dad and I do, too, naturally)! Best Christmas present EVER. :-)
Thanks so much to all your readers for their great naming suggestions. Especially thanks to everyone who pushed the name Amaryllis for if we had a girl. I really fell in love with that name during the month of December, and two days before the baby was born, I told my husband that was the name I wanted to use. He didn’t object! I did tell him he could choose the middle name, though. So if we’d had a daughter, her name probably would have been Amaryllis Helen or Amaryllis Irene … or Amaryllis Isolde! Who knows. We never did officially settle the matter.
Since wee Tommy came home, I find myself more open to girl names in general. In other words, I don’t hear every girl name out there and think, “Blah.” Instead, I think, “Ooh, pretty!” If I ever have another baby, I think I would agonize a lot less over what to call a possible daughter. And another boy? Well, the sky’s the limit with names there! I guess you could say I have a greater appreciation for names in general now. I was just in a bad place for a while there when pregnant.
Life is so crazy these days, but I am looking forward to reading your blog on a regular basis again soon, as time permits.
Thanks again!
~ Kimberly
Frankly, your husband sounds like a bully – at least as far as naming babies goes. But maybe the problem is just that you have not been assertive enough and he has gotten use to you backing down. I would be angry if I were you – at both my husband and myself for allowing this pattern of him getting his way develop.
I agree with you that Lynn is too feminine for a boy and Larson works extremely well with your first name choice. Thomas Larson (E)ewald sounds great.
As for your girls name, maybe you need to approach the naming process differently. Rather than through out a name you love, and have him reject it, why not make list of names you love and have him pick from that list?
I do think Amaryllis is a special name and if you both love it, that may be a place to begin. You could use the nickname, Amy, even if your husband chooses not to.
I don’t even have to comment because I agree with every single word of this. I think your biggest problem is your lack of influence in the baby-naming process. It seems particularly telling that your letter has a bulleted list of your husband’s name choices and then a lonely little subset of your name list shows up in a teeny, tiny parenthetical aside. You know your husband better than we do, so you should think about what will work to get some power and ownership back for yourself. Once you do that, you will undoubtedly feel better about the possibilities.
P.S. I’m all for androgyny, but “Lynn” is such a classic girl’s middle name that it feels almost cruel to make it a boy’s middle name. It reminds me of the joke on 30 Rock about how the character Kenneth’s middle name is “Ellen.”
Yes! Amaryllis, nicknamed Amy. Done!
First things first, YES, lynn is feminine and there is no reason to use it since Larson works just as well for honor and with your preferred first name.
As for the girls names, I agree with the previous poster. I think you husband should have veto power but has to work off your list since he named all the others. Can you come up with more than two names? then maybe he can go through your list? Also it sounds like you both agree to several girl names on his list. Since you provided his list, i’ll go through the names but i do think you should work off your list :)
– Teresa nn Tess, Tessa. you didn’t give an opinion one way or the other but i really like it. Tess Eewald doesn’t sounds great but Teresa does.
Natalia – i agree with you, not my fav and sounds like Natalie is out.
Georgia- seems stylistically different from the boys
Margaret (Greta) – I love this! and its on both your lists.
Marigold – I like this better than Amaryllis surprisingly. Mari would be cute nn
Lucille – you’re right, not a good match with you last name. Can you both compromise and just name her Lucy? Lucy is a complete name on it own.
Naomi and Irene – don’t sound great with last name
Helen – i like Helena but sounds like you don’t.
I definitely agree that Lynn should not be a middle name for a boy…
I also think because your husband got to name all the rest of the kids… that you should a prepare a list of all the names you love and let him know that if he has to have the final say it has to be something from your list.
I really like Noelle from your list but I also think Tessa on it’s own is a real cute/girly name.
What I see is that you have two names that are on both of your lists and two names that are almost the same on each of your list, so I agree with you that this is more about you wanting the feeling of your husband saying “It’s your turn to pick the name” than it is being at a complete and total impasse about names. My suggestion would be to A) Tell him that. It may be that he rejects names so casually and out of hand that he doesn’t even remember that there were names that you loved that didn’t get used once on any of four boys. People who think through things a lot on their own (which it seems like you are) can be susceptible to forgetting what they have and haven’t told the people close to them. and B) Maybe look for a compromise where the first name is one from both your lists (or Irene, but it sounds like you’ve done a lot of honoring already and could give yourself a pass this time around) and the middle you get to choose no questions asked. Margaret Lucia or Irene Noelle both seem like fabulous names to me. Or have you thought about using Amy as a nickname for Amaryllis?
Amaryllis with possible nickname Amy, stood out to me as well. What a lovely name for a girl born during this special holiday time.
I don’t think you are being sensitive or unreasonable. If your husband has named all the older children, then you should have a chance too! Maybe let him pick out the middle name. I agree that Larson is a better choice than Lynn.
From your list here are some combos I would consider for a girl:
Amaryllis Lucia (E)wald, nickname Amy or Amy Lu
Marigold Esther (E)wald, nickname Mari
Tessa Margaret (E)wald
Anna Noelle (E)wald
Don’t feel like you can’t speak up because “hormones” or whatever. Naming a child is an emotional process and honestly, you are doing the hard work of growing this baby, so maybe your husband needs to defer to you.
He’s gotten HIS way EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. And I love our boys’ names – I do. But I feel like it’s MY TURN and like he should KNOW THAT and SAY THAT and be ACCOMMODATING TO THAT.
You’re half right – but he’s not going to know that’s how you feel without you telling him that. Expecting our partners to be mind-readers, even when things seem very, very obvious to us, never ends well. After him naming 4 boys, he may assume this is how you want things, or how names are always chosen, or have never given it much thought at all. I’m sure he wouldn’t want you to be annoyed and resentful if he knew. Have you told him it hurts your feelings when he dismisses your name choices out of hand , like he’s ignoring the emotional connection the names have for you?
We can give you feedback on the names, but I think the real issue here is feeling like your husband isn’t listening to your needs, and that should be resolved before you pick a name, whether that be Amaryllis or Noelle.
And imho put your foot down about Larson. Thomas Larson (S)Ewing is a wonderful masculine name and you deserve to have final say in how you choose to honor YOUR mother for a baby you’re growing in YOUR body. If you both loved Lynn, I’d say go for it, but you don’t.
I know a male Lynn (it’s his middle but he uses it exclusively). He said he wasn’t teased as a kid and I think it is a refreshing old school choice. If you were picking an androgenous first name, like Taylor, Quinn, or Riley, I would steer away from Lynn as a middle. But with such a clearly male first name I think it is a great choice and a special honor for your mom.
As for naming ownership, I think confronting your husband sets you up as advisaries, when I think you’d prefer a more balanced approach. My take is you need to design a different process, one where rejecting names is not allowed. Something like each of you submit top 20 names with why you like them, then each pick top 5 off the others list etc etc. there have been other posts with examples of these kinds of exersizes.
I was going to agree with the other readers on everything said so far. I think you need to speak up to your husband about how you’re feeling a bit bullied. I think if you let your husband veto some of your name choices then you absolutely get to veto Lynn. (Agreed – it’s not a boy name anymore. Firmly in the girl camp now and I would never name a boy that. It’s like that song, A Boy Named Sue).
I think the spots with great promise are Amaryllis nn Amy, or he should just let you have Anna if he’s forced all the other boys names. Maybe Amaryllis Lynn for a girl? That’s quite lovely.
First, I think Thomas Larson is strong and handsome. Go for it!
Second, I have five kids, and I know how you’re feeling. I pinned down the feeling the other day when talking with my sister-in-law, who’s having a similar hard time naming her soon-to-be-twins. I think I have always been more gracious about baby names than my DH. Not that he’s not a gracious guy! He’s wonderful! But I think I was always more willing to consider names that I never, ever would have considered because he was so enthusiastic about. I mean, naming a baby should be FUN! And that’s how I approached it. But, if I had a name that I loved and loved, DH wouldn’t be as immediately gracious as I had been. Does that make sense?
We were talking about baby names the other day (hoping for a #6 in the future), and I brought this point up to him. He had never considered that I at first wasn’t totally in love with the names he loved. I guess he’s not as adventurous as me in the baby-naming process. Not adventurous in the kind of baby names, because some of his ideal names are OUT THERE, but adventurous in being willing to go out on a limb and consider and try out names that he wasn’t immediately in love with.
I hope that helps! I think a conversation is in order!
2, really 3 issues here.
On the husband knowing that it should be your turn to name a kid – or at least get final say, since you have overlapping names here, tell him! Tell him how much it bothers you that he at least doesn’t give a reason for the flat out veto. I mean, my husband and I both have veto power over names we hate and we don’t need to explain it but if it’s a name that means something to you, ask him to explain why he doesn’t like it. (For example my husband’s favorite name for a boy is Aristotle. We aren’t Greek! He has a long ass last name! I can explain why I don’t like a name, but sometimes just not liking it is enough. Like, if his favorite was Eugene, I would have to be like, sorry, I don’t know why I don’t like the name, but I don’t like it!)
Since your husband has given a list and you guys have overlapping names, I think this can be worked out! Just tell him, you’re doing the heavy lifting right now, this is the last baby, you get final voting rights.
2. For a boy – Larson. All the way. I usually don’t mind a name that leans toward girly for a boy, but since Lynn is such a common girl’s middle name I wouldn’t use it. Plus – since it’s your family that you’re honoring, you should be able to choose how they’re honored. (Also, see this. It includes the data from SS showing that the name Lynn basically went “girl” in the 1930s (in the US))
3. I like Margaret, Marigold, Amaryllis, Marietta, and (H)Anna. I actually find Lucia (s)Eewald harder to say than Lucille Seewald and if you do Lucy as a full or nickname it will become Luseewald when pronounced so I would move away from these.
I think my favorites are Margaret and Amaryllis – but I guess it depends on how gutsy you are as to whether or not you use Amaryllis. I think the nickname Amy makes it really stand out as a usable name for people who might not be familiar with it, AND you’d get to use the nickname that you love. And I like that you’re attracted to the meaning of the full name and that he likes it too.
Good luck and let us know how you make out.
On point #3: This vowel smoosh will happen with any name ending in an “e” sound, including Amy, which so far many responders are enthusiastic about as an Amaryllis nn. Ameeewald. Luseewald. Naomi, and even Irene are also tricky in this respect….
I love your sons’ names. Another vote for Thomas Larson, here. (Though still riled by how unfair it is that parents get to poach names such as Dylan, Finley, Harper, etc., etc. from boys to use for daughters, yet when it’s a question of a son using a feminine name then it’s “saddled with”).
My favorites among the girls’ names being considered are Anna, Hannah, Tess, Tessa, Margaret, or Georgia. My preference would be to avoid having a long “e” sound prominent because your surname begins with it.
I blame the patriarchy for the idea that girls with boyish names (Dylan, Finley, and Harper) are okay but boys with names that read girlish in modern times (Lynn, Kim, Shannon) have been “saddled” with them. But because Lynn is such an extremely common middle name for girls (undoubtedly top five, if such data are kept?), the appropriate analogy is more like giving a girl the name David or Michael. It’s probably less of an issue here since it’s a middle name, but it’s still likely to be fodder for playground teasing for a boy, if it gets out. Larson is a perfectly acceptable alternative that sidesteps this issue. (And, frankly, a perfectly acceptable alternative to letting the letter writer’s husband get his way AGAIN.)
Agree with everything everyone is saying about the need to communicate your feelings to your husband. You need to tell him how you feel.
If he does not fold immediately, realizing he has been unfair and thoughtless, then you have a husband problem rather than a baby name problem.
This blog post from Waltzing More Than Matilda is all about discussing baby names with you other half: http://waltzingmorethanmatilda.com/2014/11/16/the-gentle-art-of-discussing-baby-names/
Hopefully you won’t need it, because your husband will agree to name the baby your favorites (subject to reasonable veto rights for ex-girlfriend and school yard bully names from his childhood, of course).
Ps, Lynn is ridiculous for a boy. Larson is a great name.
You know, there are boys named Lynn. So it seems a bit unkind to say a name is “ridiculous”. I work with a guy named Lynn and frankly I never even thought a thing of his name being not a boy’s name until reading the comments here. I have known another guy named Lynn in the past as well.
Having said that, I do prefer Thomas Larson. It’s a great name.
I definitely DEFINITELY understand where you are coming from; in feeling as though this baby should have YOUR special name. I also get what you’re saying with that his reasonings are just “he doesn’t like it” and not actual REASONS. Totally resonates with me.
Now, here is where we differ, because I’ve already told my future husband that when we have kids, I get 51% of naming rights because I’m the one carrying the future child. Sounds silly, maybe even bossy, and I’m sure if he had a name he LOVED I would absolutely consider it and perhaps love it as well. But regardless, I think that, without coming off bossy, you can absolutely say “you know, you did choose the names of our other children, and I supported you. I’m asking for your support here as well.”
Because at the end of the day, why do you have to just give in to whatever he says or refuses to do? It’s your baby, too. So why be the one that gives into something that you will perhaps resent for the rest of your life? Why not just calmly say (I know, easier said than done), that here is my list of names I like. You’re welcome to tell me your favorites on it, but this is THE list. Dig your heels in. Don’t back down!
And I agree, Lynn is NOT a boys name. Thomas Larson would go very well with Charles. For a girl, Lynn as a middle name would be very nice. For a first name, come up with what YOU like, with your reasons. Tell him that “I just don’t like it” is not enough of a reason on a name you LOVE (on a regular old name, that’s fine).
I know I’m taking a bit of the bossy approach, and I swear you don’t have to do it negatively, but it raises my hackles to think that one person gets ALL of the say in naming their baby (I know, my 51% rule ha, but I mostly just mean that I’m the one birthing the baby, so I get final say on a name). It may be hard that this is your 5th kid and it’s not the way things worked before, but a girl is different, and so therefore it can be different with naming as well. Does your husband not truly understand how you feel, and perhaps approaching it a different way would help? or is he understanding and not caring? In which case, why care about his point of view?
Okay rant over! Good luck! and I love Noelle, NN Elle.
A lot of your stress here sounds like it’s wrapped up in the idea that if you have a girl, it will be your only chance to name a girl. However, you don’t know if you’re having a boy or a girl. There’s a 50/50 chance, and you’re already mostly settled on a boy name. (And I agree that Lynn has gone to the girls. I’ve met one man and about 1,000 women (if you count middle names) named Lynn. The term “really” can be so convenient for someone to use – I assume that he means “originally”, but you could use it just as effectively to mean “nowadays”.) So, take a breath!
There’s also nothing wrong with not selecting a baby’s name before it’s born. I didn’t have a name for the first three days of my life. It’s fine. Take another breath!
You do, however, need to sit your husband down and have a big talk about names and the naming process. You say, “I feel like it’s MY TURN and like he should KNOW THAT”, followed by, “and SAY THAT and be ACCOMMODATING TO THAT”, and I worry that he just doesn’t “KNOW THAT” in the first place, and thus can’t/won’t say it or accommodate it. You need to straight-up tell him that this is how you feel. If he is accustomed to naming your children and hasn’t gotten the message that you don’t want that to happen this time, why would he change how he operates? You already have four children to care for – giving him the benefit of the doubt, he may just be trying to keep things on an even keel and not contribute more stress to his very pregnant wife, mother of four, and during the holiday season at that. You owe it to yourself to expressly tell him that you think it’s your turn to name this, probably your last, baby. Show him this letter that you’ve written. Tell him that you’re happy with Thomas for a boy but that you need to talk seriously about girl names with him.
I do think you should tell him that it hurts your feelings when he rejects names you love without explaining why, but that at the same time, you need to understand that you can’t use logic or reason to make someone love something they just don’t love. Like, if he doesn’t like Amy, you explaining that you’ve loved Amy since you read Little Women as a child won’t make him love Amy, it will just make it clearer to him why you love it.
Also, know that sometimes he may have a reason for loving or not loving a name, and sometimes he may not. For example, I personally am pretty useless when it comes to cars. If someone asks me what I think about a car, I may say I like it, I dislike it, or I don’t care about it. If they ask me why, I may be able to give a specific reason (“I like the shape of the hood”), or I may not (“I don’t know, I just don’t care about it”). My husband is like this with names: he doesn’t like Ruby because to him it’s an old lady name, and he can’t explain why he loves Samuel, he just does.
You and your husband have enough overlap that I do think you’ll find a name that will work for you. I agree with a comment above that Lucia, Lucille, and Lucy are all a bit tricky with (S)eewald. You don’t comment on Georgia or Theresa/Tessa/Tess from his list, and I think they would both sound great with your boys’ names if you like them. Anna and Hannah are both lovely. Esther isn’t my cup of tea but objectively sounds fine with your surname. Amaryllis feels stylistically very different from all of the names in your family, but it’s got such a nice connection to the time of year that I’d be tempted to use it in the middle name spot if I were you.
I don’t know if you’re looking for any further suggestions – if not, feel free to ignore these, but if you are, you might consider Eleanor, nn Elle, Ellie, Ella or Norah; Maria, nn Mia or Molly; Marian(n)a, nn Mari, Ria, Mana, or An(n)a; Genevieve, nn Gen, Neve, Eve, Evie, Eva; Gwendolen, nn Gwen or Leni; Simone; Fiona; Elena if you haven’t already considered it as a Helen variant; Violet; Jane.
Best of luck to you!
I agree with everyone else about the need to TALK with your husband about your feelings around this. Some of them had really good scripts for that.
I also agree about the name Lynn as being no longer suitable as a middle name for a boy. But that may be because the only guy I know with the middle name Lynn is someone I have really negative feelings about. And I agree that since it’s YOUR mom you’re honoring, you get to choose HOW you honor her.
Re: the nickname Rilla, I really love it because of the book Rilla of Ingleside. Rilla is short for Marilla in that book. But I don’t like the ending vowel with your last name.
Re: Natalie, what about Natasha? Tho I don’t like the ending vowel with your last name.
Re: Margaret, this was one of my faves, my husband hated it. What I like best about it is the long list of nicknames. Both of you could use your own!
Re: Amaryllis. I love it. Especially as a book-end with Urban and as one down from Matthias.
Re: Anna/Hannah. I don’t like the ending vowel with your last name. What about Anne instead?
If you like Amaryllis and Marigold, what about Violet, Rose, Lavender, Heather, Iris, Dahlia (why does that not bother me with your last name?), Laurel?
Am I the only one absolutely flipping over the father’s name taste?! The boys’ names are all wonderful, individually and together (Urban!). But the girl list tops it all. Many women WISH their men would consider any of those names.
Isolde!
Georgia!
Greta!
Irene!
Marietta!
Naomi!
Such beautiful options. You won’t go wrong, even if he won’t look at “your” names (which, honestly, seem mostly past their peak).
I did notice the reverse of “typical” preferences between the husband and wife, but to me its just a reminder that there’s no such thing as a perfect husband. Even if mine could get past trying to name all of our children after the three relatives from his side that he finds acceptable and come up with a lot of original and distinctive options (like Etta!), they’d be the wrong original and distinctive options because I didn’t think of them.
And objectively, I think Amy is classic enough that it’s not a terrible thing that it happened to be super popular 30 – 40 years ago. (With Noelle, I don’t even have a strong sense of when its peak would have been).
I checked, and Noelle’s peak is actually right now. Its exactly the kind of uncommon-but-not-unheard-of name that many people consider ideal, which is steadily rising in popularity but not so quickly that it’ll seem trendy in 20 years.
I agree with the supportive part of this comment that acknowledges that you and your husband have a great list already, Kimberly! I would disagree, though, with the idea that because of our feelings about your husband’s tastes it’s totally hunky-dory even if he never looks at your list. There isn’t a Style Obstacle Course that needs to be completed in record time before you earn equal say in naming your children. You get equal say and he has to look at your list simply because you are the mother.
Your tastes, like your husband’s, are important and valid not because they happen to line up with the feelings of random online commenters like me but rather because they will shape your children’s tastes in all kinds of ways. Like the kinds of jokes you tell or the kinds of TV shows you enjoy, your tastes will seep into and inflect your children’s consciousness, even if only so that they can react against them! So, given that OF COURSE you deserve equal say to your husband, it is mandatory that he look at your list. You have, clearly, looked at his. It is mandatory that he have no more veto power than you do. It would be nice if, after you talk with him, he were to give you final say if he has had that right on the four previous occasions.
In any case, I agree with everyone that Amaryllis is exactly the kind of “EXTRA SUPER SPECIAL” name that you say you may secretly want for a girl. LOVE it. Love the idea that you can use “Amy” for her, even if she goes by Rilla with everyone else.
But, if even this chorus of people just swooning over your narrowed down list doesn’t prompt you to fall in love with these names, then I would consider the possibility that feeling bullied is at the root of the issue. Maybe the thing to do would be to (temporarily) scrap the list until you agree on a method. Talk to your husband and come up with a plan about HOW you will name the baby rather than WHAT you will name him/her. Once you have a definite plan in place you BOTH feel good about (e.g. you make a list only of names you love, he narrows it to five, you choose the two you’re most excited about, and then you come to a conclusion together OR you each make a list only of names you love, any overlap makes it onto the next round, he picks the top two, and you have final say between them), you might feel more confident that you won’t end up feeling slighted. That is, if you’re sure you’re getting a fair shake, maybe it will be easier to see your mutual choices for the exciting, beautiful names that they are, rather than a symbol of your husband’s inflexibility. You might still end up with Amaryllis (OMG, please choose Amaryllis), but you’ll KNOW you chose it fairly and so it will feel as much your name as his.
Yes, exactly this!
Two additional thoughts:
Would you consider expanding your baby name hunt to include New Yearish names as well as Christmas? I think I like the idea that your last child is the beginning of the whole family, and if it’s a little girl then her name can have added significance. Maybe your husband could see the power of that and get behind a choice of yours if you spin it that way.
With that in mind, my favorite name from your list is Lucia. And Nameberry’s similar names list for Lucia has lots of other favorites of yours (Phillippa) and one I’d thought of for you (Marilla). But Lucia means ‘light’ and has that great ‘new chapter of life’ feeling. Your husband can use Lucille as a nickname…
I agree with all the other commenters about talking to your husband. Also finding out his reasons for not liking something. It may be that he’s just sick of talking about it, so maybe give it a break for a week or so.
As far as a boy name goes … Could it be that your husband doesn’t want to use Larson is because it’s a surname and the other children all have Christian names for their middle names (of course I could be totally wrong here)? I think it should be your decision since it is your mother being honoured. If he completely rejects Larson, would you or your mother consider making a small change to turn her name into more of a boys name? I’m thinking of adding the letter G to turn Lynn into Glynn. Thomas Glynn Eeewald. Or Flynn for that matter. Or would you consider Lars (from Larson)? Thomas Lars Eeewald.
It would help to know your list of favourites other than Amy, Noelle, Margaret and Marigold.
On the Christmas side of thing, for me personally the Christmas season begins weeks before Christmas and includes all the anticipation up to and including the day. But then I consider it to be over and start looking forward to the new year. You say your baby isn’t due until early January. If the meaning of the name is important to you, wouldn’t something to do with “new beginning”, “fresh start”, etc, be more appropriate than Christmas? So I would cross Noelle and Natalia/e off the list.
Your surname is certainly difficult to work with and I don’t really like any names with an EEE sound in them, especially at the end. This crosses Amy, Natalie and Lucy off the list. And Lucia if you pronounce it Lou-see-ah.
I also find the names ending in A a bit difficult with your surname. This crosses off Theresa, Georgia, Marietta (shame I think this is really cool name), Hannah and Anna (I prefer Anna over Hannah too).
Also I don’t like the alliteration of Esther Eeewald or Etta Eeewald, so cross them off (shame as I like both names).
I don’t know how to pronounce Isolde. I think it’s either Eee-sold or Eye-sold. Either way I don’t like the rhyme of Isolde Eeewald. Neither do I like the rhyme of Marigold Eeewald.
So that just leaves … Margaret (which you don’t want to repeat an initial) and Naomi (which you don’t like the sound of), and Amaryllis (which is quite out there). Maybe some of the other names on your list would work better??
These are just my opinions. Perhaps you like rhymes or alliteration. But since you say you have reasons for liking the names on your list, maybe you could go to your husband with reasons for not liking the names on his list and persuade him to have another look at your list.
Good luck!
It’s unfortunate that your husband is the way he is. It sounds like there are 2 issues where you’ve reached a standstill. The first being the choice of middle name for a boy. In this case, it’s your mom so I think you should get final say in what the middle name is. If you prefer Larson over Lynn, then his middle name should be Larson. End of story.
The other issue I see is that you can’t agree on a girl’s name. However, it seems you’ve got a lot of names on the list that you both like, so I think a compromise should be possible.
My first thought is that Amy could be a nickname for Amaryllis, so perhaps that will help you like Amaryllis more. FWIW, I know an Amaryllis and it’s always seemed perfectly name-like to me.
You both like Lucy, but he likes Lucille and you like Lucia better. Why not just Lucy? Lucy is a lovely stand alone name, so I don’t see why either of you should insist on a longer form. Another option might be Lucinda, which means you both give up your preferred first name option, but you’ll both get a call name you like.
Margaret/Greta & Marietta/Etta makes me wonder if Margaret (which you seem to like) with the nickname Etta (his pick) would work.
The difference between Hannah & Anna is really so minimal it seems like it shouldn’t be an issue. If he can’t articulate why he prefers Hannah, then I think Hannah should be off the table. This one almost makes me think he’s just being difficult because he can.
If Natalia isn’t quite right, perhaps Tasha or Natasha (variants of Natalie)? These also seem more removed from your friend’s daughter Natalie. Since 2 of your names have a Christmas connection, I wonder if this group of names should be explored more. Estella/Stella (a nod to the Christmas star & similar to Esther), Holly, Ivy, Glory/Gloria, Angel/Angela/Angelina/Angelique, Scarlet or Ruby (a nod to red as a Christmas color). I’m sure there are plenty of others, but these came to my mind pretty quickly.
Thinking of Margaret and all the reasons I like it, makes me realize that my own name has all those qualities, too. It’s got a great meaning (God’s solemn oath), it has more nicknames than you can shake a stick at, and it sounds good with your last name.
Other names that fit that bill: Josephine (but does the EEN sound clash with your last name? Depends on the mn I suppose); Alexandra (uncomfortable ending vowel sound? I don’t know); Carolyn or Caroline; Georgette (ooh! I love this!); Patricia?
How about trying to find a new and fresh name that is neither ‘his’ or ‘yours’ yet? You could both write down 10 new names, compare afterwards, and see if there is a name on there that is ‘his and yours’?
Some ideas – I’ll try 10 myself :-)
1. Aster – star. Similar to Esther/Anna
2. Hester – star, bit different from Esther
3. Senna – Brightness, spin on Hannah/Anna
4. Thalia – blooming, similar sound to Natalia
5. Marilou – Less serious than Marigold, many Mar- names on the last.
6. Marianna (nn Anna) – in stead of Marietta nn Etta
7. Annetta – both Etta and Anna! (Or Lucetta!)
8. Astrid – ends of -d, like Marigold, Isolde, ~Margaret
9. Maelle – princess, similar sound to Noelle
10. Adele – similar el-ending
Good luck!
I think you need to give yourself a break :)
Christmas is a stressful time of year. Raising four boys is stressful. Being 34 weeks pregnant is stressful. And on top of this you’re trying to find the perfect name and feeling like you’re not even being listened to.
I think you should give yourself a break and find out the gender of the baby. You may feel guilty that you haven’t done this before. You may have ethical reasons why you don’t want to. But at this point in time you sound completely overwhelmed, and stressing yourself out trying to pick the perfect girls name, when it may not even be a girl !!!
Be kind to yourself, to your baby, to your boys.
Tell your husband how you’re feeling.
Schedule an ultrasound.
Until then don’t even think about baby names. Do something fun with your family instead.
If you find out you’re having a boy, then you’ve already got a great first name chosen and you can negotiate the middle.
If you find out you’re having a girl, there are heaps of great suggestions here of how to handle it.
All the best, and enjoy your Christmas. Please update us on how it goes.
I agree about finding out the gender. It seems like knowing one way or another could definitely help the process of picking.
Also at this point the letter writer might not even need to go in for an extra ultrasound or anything– the technician or dr probably has noted the gender already and just withheld the info (unless baby hasn’t turned the right way to see yet).
All other issues with your husband aside, the first thing you need to do is let go of all names ending in a long “ee” sound, and seriously consider letting go of names that have that sound dominate somewhere in them. They just don’t work with your surname. So goodbye (let’s shed a tear or two) Amy, Lucia, Lucille, Naomi, Irene, and Natalie. From your husband’s list, Isolde should depart as well.
(I come at this from a place of empathy because my partner’s surname also rules out most ends-in-ee names.)
Beyond just the ee sound, I think Marigold is also sing-songy due to having many of the same consonant sounds as (S)eewald.
Honestly, that doesn’t leave you with much.
Amaryllis is very charming, and if you stick to the Rilla nickname I think it could work. (Though try saying Rilla [S]eewald three times fast– it really smooshes! Not ideal to my ear). Amy (S)eewald runs together much worse.
I think the best thing at this point is to start from complete scratch. You should make a list of names you love– take a few days to think about it, and sound out each one w/ the surname so you don’t get any surprises. Then present it to your husband and let him pick his favorite(s).
Some names that come to mind from your choices, and your husband’s, that sound ok with the surname:
Isadora
Theodora
Violet
Eleanor
Juliet
Annabel
Jane
Arabella
Vivian
Emmeline
Lucienne
Olivia
Margo or Margot
Good luck!
Just a note to say that out of the bunch I suggested, Lucienne strikes me as the best compromise. Lucienne (S)eewald sounds great. You could use Lucy or Lucia as a family nickname, in which context the “ee” sounds don’t matter– and you could also use Anna as a nickname.
Luciana/Lucianna is also a possibility.
Can you please write back with YOUR list of names YOU like instead of his list and how you feel about it.
You need a new way of doing this!! How about you each make a list of 10 to 15 names you like and you each get to cross off a name from the other persons list every day for 12 days and see what names you end up with! Express yourself to your husband! Stand up for yourself! You teach people how to treat you!
Brilliant idea!
Wow, this struck a chord. What a lot of comments. I didn’t read them all but I strongly agree that the first thing you should do is make sure he knows how you feel. He may not and that could change the conversation.
Meanwhile, I’m going to mix and match with first names from your list and middles from his because this would seem to fulfill your wish to have more say but not leave him out:
Anna Naomi
Amy Margaret
Lucia Esther
Noelle Georgia
Or using the middles you were already considering (I added my favorite Helen variant-Eleanor):
Anna Eleanor
Amy Lynn
Lucia Helen
Noelle Irene
Or if you need to start fresh how about: Ava, Emma, Lily, Madeleine, Olivia, or Zoe? I’m trying to think of names that cross styles and have wide enough appeal that you might agree.
Oh, and I think Thomas Larson is a great name if it’s a boy. I’d be on board with Thomas Lynn if you liked it for a boy, but you don’t.
I’m not going to add much more to the… husband needs to step down and you need to step forward… as it’s easy to pass judgement and make comments, but I do think you need to tell your husband how you feel.
What about Orillia? I heard it the other week and I really loved it. Very feminine, plus it gives you the nn Rilla that you seem to like but Orillia perhaps feels more like a “name” that you could picture on a baby??
Or Otilia, nn Tilly. Or Otelia, nn Tia.
What about Amelia? You could use nn Amy or Mia?
I do have to say I love Noelle and Noella.
I agree, I feel like Lucielle is a bit “old but not old-enough” (coming from a mom who loves the old-grandparents generation names) like it feels like it isn’t quite fresh yet. I do love Lucy (on my short-list). What about Lucienne or Lucianna if you husband won’t come around to Lucia?
How do you feel about Margo(t)? A bit fresher than Margaret.
Other names I love:
Juliet
Violet
Thea or Theodora
Rose or Rosalie
Emmeline
Vivienne or Vienne or Vienna
Ruby
Scarlet
Willa
Isadora
PS. I would strongly put my foot down and push for Larson as a mn. Not just based on the fact that Lynn is mostly a female name but also that it’s only fair that you want to honour your mom and her side of the family with Larson.
Hi Swistle & Friends,
I’m the original letter-writer. This was actually my second letter to Swistle (the first didn’t get posted). Thanks for posting this one, Swistle! These are all such great comments, you guys. In fact, shortly before Thanksgiving I did talk to my husband and gently let him know how I was feeling. (Also, I had talked to my mom just a bit about possibly using Larson as a boy’s middle name, and it was CLEAR that this would be the best choice and feel most like an honor to her, so I put my foot down about that with him—nicely, of course!) This helped tremendously, as did going away for Thanksgiving. I left the Internet and all my baby naming books behind and took a much-needed BREAK from obsessing about names! I still thought about it some, but it wasn’t so stressful any more. My wonderful mother is here now, helping me get some projects done around the house, and that is helping keep my mind off things, too. So here is just an almost-there update, and I will let you all know what the final decision turns out to be when the baby arrives.
My original list of “Names I Like and/or Love” was quite long. It included such flower names as Magnolia, Jessamine, and of course the above-mentioned Marigold and Amaryllis. I also had on there Vida/Veda, Willa, Cara/Kara, Philippa, Amy, Noelle, Joanna, Lucy, Anna, Sadie, Margaret, Elizabeth, Catherine … You know, I can’t even remember them all right now. But a lot of them, I knew they didn’t sound right with our last name, and most of them, my husband wasn’t keen on. Some names I had once loved (Abigail, Emma, Sydney) have gotten more popular (especially Abigail, where we live) and/or were names I liked before I got married and didn’t have a surname and husband to consider.
I told Swistle in my first letter that our original plan, way back when I was pregnant with our oldest, was to name our first children after our grandparents. So had our firstborn been a girl, she likely would have been Irene Helen. Then, sometime later, we may have had a little Charlotte Sadie. But you see, we’ve had all these boys, instead! Used up all the grandfathers’ names and even both our dad’s names! If I didn’t have a beloved high-school teacher I wanted to honor (that’s where Thomas comes from), we’d be having to worry about another boy name, too.
Right before Thanksgiving, my husband found out that his grandma Helen (his paternal grandmother, who is a wonderful lady and is 100 years old) is not long for this world. I started crying when I heard that news, and it reminded me how much I loved my own grandma Irene who died 19 years ago and how determined I had been to name a daughter after her. I started wondering if the reason I have felt so unsettled about choosing a girl name is because I’ve been trying to thwart the original plan and haven’t gotten over my guilt about wanting to pass over the grandma names for use in the first-name slot. I had *thought* I had gotten over it, but maybe I really haven’t. On Christ the King Sunday (which was the last Sunday in November this year), I read something that said how Jesus came “to bring light and peace into the world.” One of the reasons I’d always liked our grandmas’ names is because Irene means peace and Helen means light! And at one point, in trying to sway my husband toward Anna (rather than Hannah), I suggested Anna Helena as the name and found myself really falling for it. I realized that Helena has a bit of the “flavor” of Hannah and sounds very regal. So many people LOVE the names Helen and Helena. Why can’t I?
I had to really think on this. It seems to go back to when I was about 8 years old and watched a movie about Helen Keller on TV (not “The Miracle Worker,” but a different one). At the time, I was horrified by the depiction of how she behaved before Annie Sullivan finally broke through to her. I think it was that association that had ruined the name Helen for me, and I never got over it. (Mind you, I’m now mother to a child with Down Syndrome, so I have a MUCH greater understanding/tolerance/respect for people with special needs. As an 8-year-old, I was ignorant and could only watch in horrified fascination.)
So I’m trying now to see if I can build up some positive associations with the name Helen, because I do think naming a daughter either Helena Irene or Helen Irene or Irene Helen would be a lovely tribute to our beloved grandmothers. My mom is helping me with this; she has known some wonderful women named Helen! And in addition to my husband’s grandmother, I once met my dad’s aunt Helen, who was vivacious and funny and joyful and who, in addition, raised her own daughter with Down Syndrome during a time when most people put kids with DS in institutions. There is a commenter here on Swistle’s blog named Helena. She always has good things to say, and THAT is a positive association as well.
It’s so interesting to me how different people have different ideas of what sounds good together and what doesn’t. Several people have mentioned that anything with a long ‘E’ sound isn’t going to work with our last name. I had always kind of thought the opposite! I had thought Irene Sounds-like-SEE-wald-without-the-S would be a nice-sounding name, if I could just get past feeling like Irene was too old-ladyish. (It’s not; this is just me talking because Irene was my old-lady grandma and I know of no young real-life Irenes – but I’m trying to build more positive associations with that name, too. I bought a copy of “The Princess and the Goblin” by George Macdonald – it features a Princess Irene, so maybe that will help!)
I do think that my husband is going to give me final say, as long as I choose something we both like. So from our combined lists, we could have Marietta, Marigold, Margaret, or Amaryllis and then use Irene or Helen or Lynn for the middle name. (IF I can get Brian on-board for Lucia or just Lucy instead of Lucille and/or Anna instead of Hannah, those might be on the table as well; otherwise, I told him we’ll just scrap all those.) OR we could go with Irene Helen, Helen Irene, or Helena Irene. I’m going to read through all your comments again when I have a bit more time (i.e., after my mom leaves). Maybe I’ll be able to get a better sense of the best choice from there. If I hadn’t been so hopelessly desperate a couple of weeks ago, I might not have written to Swistle until just now, and maybe she would have put up a poll. But we’ll figure it out, and as I said, I will for sure update you on the name when the baby comes. Posts without updates are just not very much fun!
Thanks again for all your wonderful comments! I will happily read any more that come along!
Thank you for writing a nice explanation to everything! It all comes together nicely, and I’m glad your husband will give you final say!
As far as negative associations go, and I hate to do this, but being from NY, Irene will now forever be associated with me as a hurricane name. So I think that as a middle name, I wouldn’t think twice about it, but as a first name, I definitely would. I LOVE Helena, and I think Helena Irene would be very lovely, indeed. Anna Helena as well. Dave Matthews Band (one of my favorites; not everybody’s cup of tea) has a nice song where he sings about a Helena and I always thought it sounded beautiful!
Lastly, Helen itself is nice too. A bit weighty on a small child, but a lovely name for an adult, one you definitely grow into!
I loooooove Helena. And I love the sentiment behind it. It’s beautiful, you have the built in nick name Lena or Lennie. Sweet on a little girl and powerful on an adult woman. I come from North Jersey and I wouldn’t think of the hurricane if you named your kid Irene, but then I know a few Irenes so I think of them first.
I’m glad you and your husband were able to have a productive conversation.
Good luck!
Thanks for this useful update! The context is very helpful, and I’m glad your husband is promising to be more accommodating. Helen and Irene are both beautiful first name choices and would clearly be very meaningful to you.
I was a little surprised to see a few of the commenters responding negatively to ALL first names that end in a vowel sound. I knew somebody named Laura with your exact last name, and I never found her first/last name combination cumbersome or difficult to understand when spoken. However, I do think names that end in the -ee sound are a little blurred. Maybe not to the extent that it’s a deal-breaker, but the sound is less than ideal to me. That would knock Irene a little lower on the list. Helena is very pretty but has a pronunciation issue that might or might not be a nuisance depending on your point of view. For more, see: https://www.swistle.com/babynames/2013/03/18/the-pronunciation-of-helena/. However, the nickname Lena or Lennie is too adorable to deny, so I would totally consider Helena regardless. The varying levels of cutesy/serious are super appealing.
Best wishes and thanks for promising to update! Reading Swistle letters without name updates is like reading a novel and then finding that the last five pages were ripped out. It’s so much better with a resolution to the question.
God has spoken (what a cool name-story that would be, if you do choose those names)!
Funny, the only Helens and Irenes I know are darling little girls, with the exception of a so-hip, 20-something Australian. I think the confusion of hearing “Irenie” is a non-issue, compared to the positives associated with the name (and perhaps that will even be her nickname). Another nickname possibility, if you feel that Helen/Helena needs to be grown-into, is to use Nellie in her girlhood… or longer.
I love the clarity and confidence I hear developing in your search!
Well, I’m late to the party, but with my second, her name came to me fully formed. When my husband came home, I told him her name was Julia Robin, unless he could convince me otherwise. And so it is.
I wasn’t a complete dictator. It followed guidelines we’d discussed earlier – my husband wanted a Roman or Greek name, rather than anything biblical, and Robin has some significance for both of us. But the “convince me otherwise” took the casual rejection aspect out of it entirely.
There are so many versions of Helena, I hope you find one that suits you.
I have a Margaret, nicknamed Greta. It’s an awesome name and I vote for it!
In addition:
I would go for Larson over Lynn.
I think Amarylis works great with your other kids’ names and that Amy works as a nickname for it.