Courtney writes:
I really enjoy your site — baby names are a favorite topic of mine! I am the type of person who has had my favorite names chosen since about the age of sixteen. Until I married the love of my life…who happens to have a last name that semi-rhymes with my favorite girl’s name! I haven’t seen this topic tackled on your site, so I thought I’d give it a try.
My name is Courtney, and my husband’s name is John. Our last name sounds like Divine (spelled with an ‘e’ in place of the ‘i.’) We will be trying to conceive in the next several months. If we have a boy, we’ll name him after my husband, whose middle name is Sharp (family name), and call him Jack. However, I am finding that our last name presents some challenges for a girl — only very classic names will go with ‘Divine’ in order to avoid the inevitable ‘that sounds like a stripper name!’ (and yes, I have gotten this quite a few times…) I do love classic names and think this best defines my naming style. I’m not afraid to take a bit of a risk but with our last name, it’s a bit difficult for me.
My favorite girl’s name is Caroline. I absolutely love the name and haven’t found another name that equals it, in my mind. This might be a bit of a stretch, but I also feel that it combines our mothers’ names in a way — which are Karen and Linda. I love the name Karen, but it seems a bit too 1950s to use now. I love names that are traditional, slightly Southern, and very feminine. Vintage is ok — for example, I love a classic name that doesn’t go out of style, but consider a name like Evelyn a little too vintage for me. Catherine is similar and very pretty, but a very close friend just named her baby Catherine. I love the name Grace, but think it might be a little weird (overly religious sounding?) with Divine. I also like the name Claire, which my husband is just ok with. Another name I like is Jane (nn Janie). My husband does not love the vintage names — I haven’t come up with one that he loves yet. An example of a vintage style name that he’s not loving is the name Audrey. His style is a bit more contemporary than mine.
Examples of middle names we could use are Lee (my original middle name and a favorite great aunt’s middle name), Shannon (my current middle name and my maiden name – I don’t care for it as a first name), Virginia (my grandmother’s middle name) and I have also thought about Allison, which is my sister’s name. Mary is also a family name we could use. I am Catholic, so I’d love to include a saint’s name if possible. Since we’d be naming a boy after my husband, we’re looking at my side of the family for a girl. :) John and I aren’t crazy about a lot of our family names, but it would be great to include an honor name of some sort.
I guess my basic question is — is the name ‘Caroline Divine’ annoyingly singsong and rhymey? I love the name Caroline, and so does my husband. It actually is one of the only girl’s names that we’ve agreed upon! Half of me feels like the name sounds like a very sweet, cute girl. The other half says, ‘no one will take her seriously with a rhyming name like that.’ I’d hate to have her teased or pre-judged later in life because of her rhyming name, just because I liked the name so much or couldn’t get on board with something else!
When I’ve asked friends and family, they are about 50-50 on whether or not to use it. What is your opinion? Is Caroline Divine too much? If so, can you recommend some other choices?
Thanks so much!
I have gone back and forth on this for four days now. Sometimes when I say “Caroline Divine,” I think it’s striking and memorable and fine. Other times I think that there are very few rhyming names that don’t sound like stage names: I find myself saying “Caroline…the DIVINE!!” in a circus announcer tone of voice. I think too that it could increase pronunciation issues: if I saw the name Caroline Divine, my first pronunciation attempt would be CaroLYN, because I’d feel silly if I guessed a rhyme where there wasn’t one.
The happy thing, though, is that the adjective divine is a very, very positive one. I can picture people saying, “It’s Caroline….THE DIVINE!!” or “Divine Caroline” pretty often, and I can picture that getting tiresome—but it’s a very different kind of tiresome than “Luke the Puke” or “Cooper-Cooper-Pooper-Scooper.”
I wonder if you’d like Karenna as an updated Karen? Karenna Lin or Karenna Lindy or Karenna Linda would be a pretty way to honor the grandmothers.
Or I wonder if you’d like Josephine: similar in look and style to Caroline, but a non-rhyming ending. A saint name, too.
Another saint option is Genevieve.
Or Winifred.
Margaret Mary Divine is pretty, or Margaret Shannon Divine, or Margaret Courtney Divine.
If you decide not to use Caroline as the first name, I think it would be nice as the middle name: the rhyme would be so much less of an issue there.
Let’s have a poll to see what everyone else thinks about Caroline Divine:
[yop_poll id=”42″]
Caroline Divine certainly isn’t ideal. The fact that Caroline is such a well known classic gives it a little more wiggle room in a case like this. For example, Coraline Divine is too much I think. Do you plan on using a nickname? If you’re going to call her Carrie, that further lessens the problem I think.
Another option would be to switch it out to Carolyn Divine. The spelling makes it clear what pronunciation you are going for & it’s so similar while still avoiding the rhyme. The Lyn ending also strengthens the connection to the name Linda.
Some other classic/vintage names that maybe won’t seem too old to your husband-Charlotte, Elizabeth, Lucy, Violet. Cora is also really nice and would be a great namesake for you, though perhaps the names are too close to avoid confusion.
Caroline is such a beautiful name but Caroline Divine would be a no-go for me. I feel your pain – I’m married to a Davis and names that end in ‘S’ are out!
Caroline Devine is a little bit too much for me. If you are planning to use a nickname like Carrie or Callie, it might be ok. You would also have to be ok with her deciding when she is older that she doesn’t like having a rhyming name and deciding to giver herself a nickname or go by her middle name.
You could name her Caroline and give her a C middle name and call her C.C. (Cici, Cece, CeeCee, however you want to spell it), for a nickname.
How about Carolina, (pronounced Carol-leena, not like the states). My friend named her daughter that and they call her Lina for a nickname, really cute.
Good luck!
What about Carolina? Less rhythmic and rhyming that way. Or Cara or Clara. Corrina, maybe?
I, on the other hand, think it’s works just fine. It doesn’t really bother me that they are sort-of rhymy. If you love it, go for it.
I think it’s fine personally, but I can see how some people would find it weird. Do you like Carolyn (Carolin?) or Carolina at all?
I voted no, because for me personally it would be too much. However, if I were to meet a Carolina Divine, while I might briefly raise an eyebrow on first encountering the name, I probably would not give it much further thought afterwards. So basically, I would’t use it, but it’s not terrible.
I agree with some others that it’s not my style and with plenty of time to deliberate, I’d find another option. However it’s not HORRIBLE.
I loooove the suggestion of Margaret, though. Maggie Devine = brilliant and beautiful.
Ooh, I like Maggie Divine! Sounds like a CEO or something!
Caroline Divine hits my ear as a comic book character. My first thought wouldn’t be “stripper,” but if someone suggested it, I wouldn’t be able to forget it. It does seem like a name that your daughter would have to grow a thick skin to wear–she’d be taunted with it a lot.
I like Clara or Cora, if either of those sound good to you. Clara Shannon sounds very nice.
The suggestion to use it as a middle name is lovely too. Virginia Caroline Divine has a lot of N in it it, but it still sounds good. Ginny is a great nickname. You could pull a nickname you like from Caroline and explain that Virginia is a family name. That’s a very typical thing to do. Carrie Divine is nice.
The fact that the poster says it “semi-rhymes” makes me think they are using the Carolyn pronunciation. Caroline Divine would be a full rhyme. Even though the long-i ending is my preferred one for this name, in this case, I prefer the short i.
Karenna is a good idea. Also, Carolina.
The semi-rhyme part is a good point. I assumed she was pronouncing it Caro-Line. If it’s Caro-Lyn, I think that sounds much better with the last name and would totally work. But in that case, I would strongly recommend spelling it Carolyn or else nobody is ever going to say it correctly on the first try.
If you don’t mind giving up John/Jack for a future boy, how about Jacqueline nicknamed Jack or Jackie? Jackie Divine is adorable.
Oooh, Jackie Divine is super sweet.
It makes me very sad to say this because Caroline is a favorite of mine, but I think it is too much. However, perhaps you all could take your last name instead? ;) Caroline Shannon works…
Otherwise, Carolina (pronounced Caro-LEEN-a) works, but as someone who loves the name Caroline and doesn’t like Carolina, you might feel the same way.
Corinna? Clara? Cora? Amelia? Josephine is a great suggestion. Elsa?
I’m with the group that feels Caroline Divine is too much. Carolyn Divine is very pretty though.
I know I push these names a lot on here, but I think Cecilia or Cecily Divine are simply beautiful and there are great nn options like CeCe! Bonus, Cecilia is a saint’s name!
Cecelia Lee Divine – LOVE!
I prefer the Cecilia spelling…
I voted “I can’t decide”, because on the one hand I don’t think the rhyme is ideal, but on the other hand you both love it. The emphasis being on two different syllables (CARoline diVINE and not caroLINE diVINE) also makes it more workable for my ear than it would otherwise be.
I voted “no”.For me, Caroline Devine doesn’t pass the “would I want this name for myself” test. I think that it requires too much justification and gives off a little bit of a weird vibe- to my ear it almost sounds like a performer/stripper/cartoon villain name which is a shame because Caroline is such a nice name. If I was the person in question, I would prefer not to have the name Caroline.
My last name ends in ‘ere’ pronounced ‘air.’ We’ve joked about naming a kid Claire or Pierre to help people pronounce our name.
Then I watched The Voice and there was a contestant named Michelle chamuel. That’s the only name I remember. And I like it. It’s fun to say. It made me like rhyming names. I say do it!
I voted no, but I also feel like Caroline Divine is not awful. It’s just not ideal, either, if that makes sense. And I think certain personality types could even pull it off really well. I keep seeing a blonde TV reporter holding a big mic, maybe outside a giant Christmas tree (’tis the season, I guess– it’s on my mind), saying, “This is Caroline Divine with WABC, and I’m here tonight at the annual…”
You worried about stripper-type connotations– please rest assured, at least to one person (me!), those don’t come up with “Caroline Divine” at all. Caroline is very straight-laced, even paired with Divine. Jane is too. So is Audrey Divine. I’m not as into Claire Divine– I think it’s a little choppy. Have you considered Clara?
Maybe it’ll make you feel better to know that I went to school with a whole family by the name of Divine and never remember any of them being teased. They all had very 80s trendy names– think Ashley, Amanda, Lindsay-style names.
I do think Mary Divine is too religious and heavy sounding/borders on goofy. I’m not sure if you were considering that as a first name or just as a middle. It seems fine as a middle.
Here are some other straight-laced, traditional options that I think pair well with Divine (or tone it down a little, at least):
Josephine (such a good call, Swistle)
Genevieve (also great)
Rosalie/Rosalind (it sort of incorporates Linda. Maybe Rosalind Karen?)
Eleanor
Elizabeth
Gillian/Jillian
Margaret
Clara
Marina
Emily
Sarah
Kate
My favorite from the suggestions of Swistle and others are Josephine, Genevieve, and Clara. I think any one of those is great with Divine. From the bunch I just suggested, I think Rosalind is cute because it incorporates Linda a smidgen, and Rosie Divine is a cute nickname-name. Rosalind is also long enough that Divine becomes less noticeable by the time you get to it.
As far as finding something your husband likes– maybe you can come back and comment specifically on his taste? You say “contemporary”, but does that mean surname-names like Madison and Harper, or classics currently on a down-swing in popularity, like Sarah, Rachel, Kate, Hannah, that were very popular 10+ years ago (and maybe in his mind are still what’s cool)?
If it’s the latter, you might be able to find some compromise with names that sound familiar because they were popular when we were young, but are not dated because they are so classic. I’d say Caroline edges into this category even though it is on an upswing still. More obvious examples are names like Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Kate, Katherine, Julia, Hannah, Emily, Amy, Jessica, Elizabeth, Alexandra.
Out of this bunch, I like Emily, Sarah, and Kate very much with your surname.
Good luck!!!
The more I say Caroline Divine, the more I like it! Sure it’s “rhymey” but, as someone else pointed out, the different syllable emphasis makes this less obvious to the ear. It’s quite a fun name to say actually.
If you both love it, just go for it!
Good luck!!
If you like Caroline and Catherine, have you considered Kaitlin or Kathleen?
I think there is too much of a rhyme to be honest. Are there other C names that you like, ending in -a perhaps?
Catalina Shannon Divine
Carly Virginia Divine
Malia (Ma-lee-ah) Shannon Divine
Charlotte Allison Divine
Cadence Virginia Divine
For me the fact that the emphasis is different makes it slightly tricky to say – my brain wants to go CaroLINE DeVINE but that’s not how it’s actually said.
Our surname rhymes with Ted and I just love the name Fred, but I just can’t bear to burden a child with a name like Fred Ted.
I think this issue is similar to alliteration. Some people like it, some people don’t. I personally don’t think the rhyming in this situation makes it too much and I am much more likely to say it lends toward comic book or simply memorable than stripper.
After reading the comments I am now confused about what the reader wanted the pronunciation to be.
When I see Caroline, I assume car-oh-LINE….. but really I guess the pronunciation can go either way.
I voted NO because Carol-LINE Divine is too much. But if the writer means Carol-LINN, then I say go for it. And consider the spelling Carolyn.
I think Caroline Devine is a little much. I’m sure she means line and not Lynn, because otherwise there wouldn’t be an issue! So, as others have pointed out, Carolyn is a good compromise, and does seem to represent Karen and Linda a little better. However, i am someone who loves the name Caroline and am very lukewarm about Carolyn, so I understand if that’s not appealing. I lean towards something more like Elizabeth Devine. Like someone else noted, a longer first name takes away from the last name,and something classic like that seems tease-proof. Plus, all the spunky nicknames that play UP the last name a bit. Like, Lizzy Devine! Cute.
I love Mary for you! but agree Mary Divine is too much. Catherine is probably my favorite alternative, but sounds like that is out. I also like Suzanne or Sylvia a lot…I think you have excellent taste, and don’t think you’ll go wrong. Divine is actually a great last name. :)
Before reading any of the other comments I also thought of Carolina (Caroleeeeena) so glad that I wasn’t the only one who thought of us. I didn’t read through all of them but I’m sure somewhat pointed out that people would probably call her Carolina like the state and not Caroleena.
Maybe Coralie would work for you? It has almost the same letters than Caroline, but – in my opinion – sounds a lot better with your last name.
Just a quick pop-in to say that I disagree that Karen is out-dated.
Karen is definitely on a very downhill slide in terms of usage.
http://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager#prefix=karen&sw=both&exact=false
Yeah, but it doesn’t _feel_ dated like trendy names can. I only know three Karens and they’re all different ages. I also know three Lisas, and they’re all the same age as me.
Wow, thanks for all the feedback, everyone!! I am the original poster. Just to clarify, my preferred pronunciation would be Caroline with a long ‘I’ (pronounced line). When I said ‘semi rhymes’ that was just because the emphasis is on different syllables (like, CAROline DiVINE). Hope that makes sense.
And my husband’s taste is more towards names of our generation, such as Jennifer, Jessica, Ashley, etc. So, ‘contemporary’ probably wasn’t the right word to choose. :)
I do like the idea of calling her by the nn Carrie or Callie. Lots of thoughtful responses here. Thanks for all of the suggestions! Swistle, thanks for taking my question!
Did you ever read the children’s book Caddie Woodlawn growing up? The main character’s full name is Caroline and goes by Caddie, which I think is spunky and cute. And is based on a true story!
I know that it’s to late but I think Caroline Divine is beautiful! It has so much character and can be sophisticated or alittle rebellous! Jealousy from above! It’s beautiful! Better then Karen!
I’m afraid you’ll always have a complex about the name rhyming and if anyone notices it, you’ll question your choice. I have a Caroline and names that catch my attention as similar are:
Charlotte (same meaning as Caroline)
Catherine
Julia or Juliet
Madelyn
Elizabeth (Eliza? Elise?)
I voted “I can’t decide” because I don’t think that the rhyme is too obnoxious to use, but I personally would not use it, and I have been in a very similar situation. My middle name was Walker (grandmother’s maiden and father’s middle name), and I took my maiden name as my middle at marriage because my married name (sounds like Becker) rhymes horribly with it. When we were naming our son I hated to take Walker off the list because it held so much meaning for me, but the sing-song sound of Walker Becker was too much for me.
I personally would not spend any more mental energy on this topic for now if I were in the letter writer’s situation. Since it’s a purely academic question right now, it’s easier to find arguments on both sides, while you may feel very differently when there’s an actual baby girl on the way. The decision to embrace Caroline or look elsewhere may feel more intuitive at that time.
This is good advice.
I would not choose a rhyming or semi-rhyming name for me or my child. I’m sorry, but I couldn’t do Caroline Divine. Thankfully when we got pregnant we had a boy. My husband’s last name is long and ends with the sound “eeda” and it eliminated a lot of favorite names that ended with “ia” (like Sofia, Mia, and Lucia – we would pronounce it “Loocheeah”). Good luck!
I am popping back in to comment with some unfortunate news… Just in passing, I began to describe to my boyfriend your dilemma (he often asks what the latest is at Swistle) and before I had even finished– I just said “A woman is thinking about Caroline, but her last name is Divine, and–” he said, “Oh no! Caroline Divine sounds like a stripper name!”
So, no offense to strippers/exotic dancers, who are probably just trying to make a living, but… to my partner, at least, Caroline Divine invoked the stereotypical stripper image. I don’t think you want that so I think you should let go of Caroline, sad as that may be. Maybe you can use it for a future cat? It is a cute feline name.
It’s not ideal, but it could work. She could easily go by Cara, Callie, Carrie or Caddie to avoid the rhyming problem.
The obvious alternatives are Carolina, Karoline, and Carolyn (which doesn’t feel as elegant).
You might like a name that’s similar: Catherine, Catharina, Charlotte, Constance, Clara, Claire, Christiane, Clemence, Clemency, Corinne, Cordelia, Cecily, Claribel, Carina.
Another option would be to hyphenate: a double name would solve the rhyming problem: Caroline-Jane Divine; Caroline-Audrey Devine; Caroline-Eve Divine; Caroline-Mary Divine.
So many good comments and suggestions here! I’m in the “no” category – the last name Divine is so lovely, it seems like you could find another name that complements it, rather than creating an awkward (in my opinion) full name.
I agree with the commenter who suggested putting a pin in this for now, as you’ve not yet conceived. If you have some extra time on your hands and WANT to explore other possibilities, maybe pick up the Baby Name Wizard book and follow Caroline down the rabbit hole (pick a suggested “sibling” name from the Caroline entry and look that up, pick a name from that list and look it up, etc etc). You and your husband might find some others that you both like to add to your list!
Ok, I am totally weirded out by this post! My maiden name was Courtney Leigh Divine (with an “e” instead of an “i” too)! And I have a first cousin that is named Caroline Divine, and in the 24 years that she has been alive I have never thought that her named rhymed! It is a beautiful name, and as one Devine to another, I say name her Caroline if it is the name that you truly love the most!
WOW…that is crazy!!! What a funny coincidence! Surprisingly, there weren’t many other Courtneys around when I was growing up – I was born in ’81. I don’t see my name very often. Thanks for sharing! :)
Alice might work to honor your side. It’s classic and current, but it could be too old-fashioned sounding for your husband. Alice Divine would work on a lot of different personality types.
I voted no also. I told my husband your dilemma: basically all I said was your last name was Divine and you were considering Caroline. . .and he immediately wrinkled up his nose and said “Oh boy”. It’s unfortunate because Caroline is such a beautiful name, but I wouldn’t do it. There are many names I’ve had to give up because our surname is a one-syllable noun (adjective) name. I just happen to love noun names as first names and our surname rules out some good names, including some of my favorite one-syllable first names that just sound too choppy. It’s an unfortunate fact of life that not every name works with our surnames!
That being said, I think you have some great alternatives! Genevieve is a gorgeous name. I also really like Carolina, pronounced like the state! And I also agree that Cara or Cora would work well instead of Caroline.
I can add that my middle name is Caroline and it was frequently mispronounced as “Carolyn” to rhyme with my first — in those school ceremony days when your full name is read aloud. It happens quite rarely now. I can imagine your rhyming name being a bit annoying at times, but I actually like it, if done on purpose.
I am also going to add that I just found a website called divinecaroline.com – it’s a beauty/fashion/entertainment site. Just thought you may want to know : )
I love the name, but if you want to have a name that is similar to Caroline I would suggest Corraline and, if you want, call her Cora as a nickname